Conference napalm::guitar

    I beg to differ with you on the Fender amps. Before CBS took
    over, Fender amps were totally tube. CBS took over, I believe
    around 1966 and immediately began making cost reduction driven
    changes. Shortly thereafter they introduced a line of amps that
    were completely transistorized. These amps were so poorly recieved
    that they discontinued them after only 1 year. The impact of these
    amps was that CBS Fender began replacing some of the tube functions
    in there old style amps with transistors. Fender amps made recently
    contain less tubes than ever, and presently employ integrated circuits
    instead of discreet transistors. Fender never really went back to
    their original designs, which were all tube. 
    
    	I can draw a parrellel, if you can bear with me a second hear.
    A couple of years ago, Coca Cola changed their age old Coke recipe
    which became the new Coke. People were really up in arms about it.
    Many people switched to pepsi and other cola's like polar and others.
    Coke got so many complaints from people that they eventually
    reintroduced the old Coke as "Classic Coke". One of the people who
    did the complaining was my sister, who wrote many notes to coke
    asking them to bring back the old coke. What coke didn't admit to
    (at least they didn't dwell on) was that they had replaced all of the
    sugar in coke to corn syrup because the price of sugar has soared
    in recent years (pure cost reduction tactic). They have been mislead-
    ing people for the last couple of years into thinking they are getting
    the old Coke, in it's pure original form. This is bull ca ca. My
    sister has taken several blind taste tests using some old Coke she
    had stockpiled, and some "classic Coke". She can tell the difference
    every single time. 
       
    	The same thing holds true in the Musical instrument industry.
    CBS Fender (and many others) have cost reduced their products
    to the point of producing junk, while telling the public their
    buying the genuine article. One example is in the Fender Pickups.
    CBS cut down on the number of windings in their pickups, literally
    saving only pennies on each guitar. They also started using cheaper
    magnets, bobins, and wire, all of which changed the sound of their
    pickups for the worst. I personally would rather pay a few bucks
    more and get the genuine article, but the corporate idiots don't
    see things that way. 
    
    	Some of this is my opinion, and some of it is fact. The bottom
    line is, there is absolutely no excuse for cost reducing a classic
    down to junk. The corporate idiots at CBS should have been tarred,
    feathered, placed in the stockade, and publically flogged for what
    they did to Fender.
    
    						Mark Jacques
    
    
    

    We can probably all think of zillions of cases where companies got
    large and began cost-cutting measures at the expense of quality.
    You're right about corporate executives. But understand that they're
    responsible to the stockholders of the corporation, who want to
    see return on investment. Of course, the catch-22 here is that 
    the cost-cutting measures will eventally catch up to a company
    in the form of a bad reputation. Too many businesses pay too much
    attention to short-term goals (maximize profit next quarter) and
    don't have executives with enough vision to see into the future.
    Partly the fault of computers, I guess. It's real easy to play
    with a spreadsheet and think you're running the company right.
    But that's a very narrow view.
    
    By the way, don't think short-sighted cost-cutting measures don't
    happen inside DEC. They do all the time. With predictable results.
    
    -Dave

    I was not familiar with the transition time of the take over,however
    I do have a 68-69 Fender catalog with the "Silver Front" amp's in
    it and it shows both Tube and transistor models. Whether or not
    CBS was going to phase out its tube amp line I've never heard or
    read during that time period. Yes the solid state amp's did bomb,but
    my info was only related to the changes in the tube models
    specifically. Differences in component values/changes were attempted
    and were poorly recieved and changed back. Nowaday's everything
    is solid state is what I saw when I pulled apart my friends Dual
    Showman from the beginning to the end. Also I believe that Fender/CBS
    bought the old Sunn amp company who may be building there amps now.Or
    are they still selling Sunn?
    

    How many Corporate V.P.s for any musical instrument manufacture
    know the difference between a pick and a pickup ?

    
    Fender became CBS Fender in 1963. Leo never told me when he sold
    the company, but I read a brief Fender history article and it said
    1963. I have a 64 bandmaster and it says Fender a division of....
    
    

    This is why I was so adamant in the "real Fender" debate.  To me,
    buying a Fender is like giving a raise to these kind of businessmen
    and encouraging this kind of business in the future.
    
    These days, when I pick up a Fernandes or a Tokai in the store
    I generally find a guitar with excellent intonation, low action,
    smooth tuners, and excellent tonal qualities.  It also "feels"
    like a well-made instrument.
    
    When I pick up a so-called "real" strat (i.e. one made by the company
    that bought the rights to the name), I generally find a guitar with 
    mediocre intonation, high action, cheap tuners and decent tonal qualities.

    A friend of mine bought a "Fender" strat recently and had to have
    the thing fixed for 3 different problems with a few months after
    he got it:  mistapped hole for tremolo arm, notches in the nut had
    burrs that caused annoying tinking sounds during bends, fret binding
    actually PEELED off!!  These are all signs of extremely poor QC.

    What I don't understand is why it isn't the Fender loyalists who
    are complaining.  From what I've seen, it's the Fender loyalists
    who are keeping this company in business.  This is taking loyalty
    too far.  It's like voting for Nixon today cause you liked Ike.

	db

    Fender to CBS in 1963? The Black front amp's were made till 1967
    if I remember correctly,maybe early 68? 

    re .4:
    
    GP recently had an article about some VP's Gibson hired. They both
    have MBA (blech!) degrees from Harvard Business school. One of them
    apparently played jazz guitar all through school. I guess he knows
    his stuff. These guys are the ones responsible for all the activity
    within Gibson these days. Go into a Gibson dealer (like Gordon's
    Music in Worcester) and see the US-1, the Les Paul Light, the 62
    SG, the new Paul with Kahler tremolo, and all the rest of the up-to-
    date stuff Gibson is coming out with. These VP's know what's going
    on!
    
    -Dave

    Re. .8
    
    They are also still making them in Kalamzoo Michigan, USA if I 
    remember correctly, just like CF Martin, Guild, and a few others. 
    
    	When you think about it Gibson guitars are still worth paying more
    for the name, but Fenders aren't, unless they are an older fender.
        
    	When it comes to Gibson though, I prefer the old standard models
    like the Les Paul, ES335, SG, etc,etc. I just can't warm up to the
    new radical looking instruments, or a Strat copy with the name Gibson
    on it. If someone wants a radical looking guitar, look around for
    a flying V or a reverse Firebird. Now there are 2 radical looking
    axes.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    
    

    re. .4
    
    	I can think of at least 3 or 4 Musical instrument company execs
    who certainly do know a pick from a pickup. The presidents of Peavey
    and Ovations enjoy "Pioneer" status for their contributions to the
    State of the Art. The C.F. Martin company has always been managed
    by one of the Martins, with a emphasis placed on preserving the
    heritage and family reputation. Also the Guild Company just underwent
    some changes. I believe Gruhn, (one of the writers for Guitar player
    magazine and well known vintage guitar expert) is at the wheel of
    the company.
        
    	These are only a few that come to mind. Just because one American
    manufacturer (Fender) has gone downhill, doesn't mean that there
    are no good American guitar manufacturers. What I like about the
    older American manufacturers is that they are sticking to building
    instruments in the classic style, sometimes experimenting with some
    new radical designs (like Gibson) but sticking to the philosophy
    that gained them thier reputation in the first place. I personally
    have a soft spot in my heart for classic styling. Perhaps someday,
    after I have a complete collection of Les Pauls, Stat's, Tele's,
    etc. and etc, I might be tempted to try something more radical
    like a Jackson Charvel with Kahler. One things for sure, if I buy
    a Fender it will be used and pre-Japanese manufactured.
    
    							Mark Jacques
    
    
    

    re .10
    	Actually, Gibson guitars are being made in Michigan AND in
    Tennesee. They Started up the new facility in 1978 and have been
    making Les Pauls and ES-335's along with some of their accoustic line
    since then.
    					Tom Testagrossa
    
    P.S. I personally don't like Gibson's Strat copy guitar, but the
    Ultra-Lite is nice. (Anyone who owns a Les Paul custom, and has back
    trouble will know why I say that!)