Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Yeah, looks great on the PC. Not out yet on the Amiga though the date
    in a recent mag said end of May. I think it's produced by and American
    company so it'll probably take even longer to get over here.
    
    It's one for my collection though; I loved Dungeon Master and this
    looks like a great improvement...
    
    
    
    				Jamie.

    Well it's out now... has anyone got it ? I think it's going to be a
    "must have" but a review would be nice ;-)
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    
    				Jamie.

    Hi,
    
    Finally got EoB this weekend. It is pretty good (understatement)!!!
    Those kind SSi chaps have included a hard disk installation program
    which is a breath of fresh air after playing those games where hours of
    loading off floppy is needed.
    
    For those who don't know this is a cross between DM/CSB and the role
    playing game Dungeons and Dragons. Being an addict of both, I was
    interested to see how both these 'hard-to-capture' elements were
    implemented. Since I haven't played this game long enough to make any
    constructive criticism I canna say whether it's destined to become a
    classic or not, but I do have a couple of observations on it.
    
    1)	Movement is a bit too precise; clicking on the edge of a movement
    box may or may not activate it.
    
    2)  When generating your characters, it's all too easy to cheat! You
    are allowed to modify your stats without penalty. So, its possible to
    have all four characters on maximum stats. (As an aside for all those
    D&D players, since when can a Dwarf have an 18(xx) strength ???)
    
    Still the graphics (so far) have been impressive, the monsters better
    animated than in DM/CSB an the sound goodish. (I haven't yet heard use
    of stereo being made).
    
    All in all, a recommended game!!!
    
    dave.
    

    RE the movement; why not use the numeric keypad ? I find it much nicer
    to use.
    
    Agree about the ability to change stats. Bit weird really!
    
    It doesn't use Stereo in the way that Chaos did. That was REALLY
    impressive.
    
    Still, it's a very good game. I've been waiting a long time for
    something new in the Dungeon Master/Chaos vein.
    
    
    
    				Jamie.

Well I spent the weekend playing EOB and any reservations I had about the game 
have blown out the window. What follows is a mini review of what this game is 
(and isn't).


EOB has its roots firmly buried in the Dungeon Master/CSB style. The view is
first person (as if you were standing in the passage) and motion is controlled 
by six movement boxes (again, a la DM/CSB). These are possibly a fine in use; to
trigger the movement in the selected direction, you have to click quite near the 
middle of the box - however you can use the numeric keypad instead.

Anyone familiar with the role playing game AD&D will need no introduction
to Waterdeep, the city that the game is based under, or to game play. EOB takes 
its looks from DM, but its gameplay from AD&D. Selection of party members is 
limited to four; from the races Human, Elf, Half Elf, Dwarf, Halfling and Gnome.
Each of these has it's own strong and weak points and so a mix can be made to
get the best of all races. You also select the 'profession', or class, of the 
character. Typically, these are fighter, thief, paladin (a subclass of fighter),
cleric and mage. For certain races, it is possible to have multi-class 
characters, such as a fighter/cleric. Also, alignment must be chosen, this 
indicates the characters nature; good, neutral or evil. The character has six
statistics which dictate its abilities; Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, 
Dexterity, Constitution and Charisma. These can be modified if you wish. 
(As an aside, the typically human score in any of these abilities is 8)

Once selected characters start in the sewer system below waterdeep. The first 
three levels are premapped (with a few errors/omissions). Designed to get you 
use to the game, the monsters you meet aren't that taxing and drop after a few
swipes with an axe or sword. After this, the game begins. 

The first thing to notice is that the scenery changes. Unlike DM, where the 
passages always looked the same, in EOB, there are many differences, depending
where you are. This keeps you on your toes as hidden buttons change and you
can easily walk by some. Use of sound is reasonable; samples are good, but poor 
use of stereo can sometimes be a pain. (Standing in a passage, it was easy to 
tell where the monster was in DM, not so in EOB)

Magic and Clerical powers are dealt with in true AD&D style. Mages have 
spell books, into which they can scribe scrolls they find. Clerics must pray
for their spells to their god. Spells are split into levels, and depending on
the level of the character, they may learn so many from each level. As the 
character gains experience levels, they can learn more spells. If a character
can learn three first-level spells, they can opt to learn the same spell three
times. To learn spells the charactes must rest (and sleep).

Damage is reflected in Hit points. When a character reaches 0 hit points, they
are unconscious, when ther reach -10, they are dead. Resurrection is possible
by finding a goodly cleric in the dungeon or by finding the 'raise dead' scroll.

Monsters are not the only thing you meet in the game; a dwarven army, a king
and clerics abound and some will ask if they can join your party. Up to a 
maximum of six characters can be in a party and this can be useful later on
when the game begins to get tough.

Some items found are magical and these are useful when used properly. A magical
sword not only gives you a better chance at hitting the oppenent, but also 
increases the amount of damage inflicted. The game may sometime appear to be 
slightly sluggish during combat, but this is because combat is dealt with as
AD&D would deal with it - in terms of melee rounds. Each creature involved in
combat has a set number of attacks per round, so if your party has 1 attack
per round and the creature has two, then it will appear that you are moving 
slower than the creature. You basically have a set number of actions per round,
the action may be to fight or to run. If you fight, then you must wait until 
the next round before you run.

The game is full of quests which you must complete (I think). Talking to the
right creature in the dungeon will give some help toward completing these.

Saving the game will save the games to a file called eobdata.sav. Each time
that the game is saved, this file is overwritten. The easiest way round these
on a hard disk installed system is to start up a new shell and copy the file to
another directory. (I have a shell script to do this).

So, that's the game in a nutshell (!) The game is easily HD installable via a 
provided script and the game runs in the background allowing you to use your
favourite database at the same time. Don't expect too much from the shell 
though, EOB soaks up CPU time. It would be interesting to see how EOB performs
with a 020 or 030 card.

The game is graphically excellent and has some fiendish puzzles to overcome. 
The sound is possibly the weakest part of the game, but it is still fairly good.
All in all, highy recommended... Certainly worth the thirty quid being asked!

dave

    How do you live past level 5 ?
    
    ***spoiler***
    
    The poison from the spiders keeps wiping out my party. I haven't found
    any cure-potion scrolls or potions yet so that's out.
    
    Clues ?!!!

    There four, and four only cure posion potion on the north end of level
    5. If you don't use the only other options slow poison spells, or
    neturalise posion spell(a 4th level spell) from your Cleric,or let your character die and
    get him/her reserected later  or after killing every spider save the
    game.
    
    James.

    Well my cleric is still on 2nd level spells so 4th level spells are way
    out of her reach!
    
    Thanks though; I'll try to make a dive for the potions.

Hi,

What character are people using in EOB? I've stuck with single class -
Human Paladin, Dwarven Fighter, Human Mage and Gnomish Thief/Cleric. 

Has anyone tried playing with a mixed alignment party/all evil party?

dave

    Just picked up this game, brilliant ! 
    
    I'm running with a human cleric, elf mage, dwarven fighter and
    half-elf fighter/mage, they are all Chaotic Good,
    
    I know I'll need a theif I'll need to change the party.
    
    Great game though
    
    Looking forward to getting through it,
    
    Gary.

    Well I have just found the Dwarven Prince and am thinking this is much
    better than DM!
    
    I  have now got in my party a Human Paladin, Halfing Thief, Elven Mage
    and Dwarven Cleric. Also two other charcters have joined my party a
    Dwarven fighter and a Half-Even Cleric. I belive a good mix of races
    very important when it comes to reading runes. The only ones I can not
    read are in Ghomish, and so far I have only seen one of them.
    
    All the charcters are either Lawfull good or Chaotic Good and there are
    is a 50:50 slpit between the sexes. 
    
    James

re -1,

how did you get the cleric to join the party? Is it the same one that is with
the dwarves?

dave

    The Cleric is one I got reserected by the Dwarven Cleric. I found her
    bones on level 7 and I dropped Tod Uphill, a halfing thief whose bones
    you find on the first level. The are four other set of bones to be
    found 2 fighters, a ranger and magic user.
    
    James

Does anyone have any maps yet. We've finished mapping level four, but after
going through one of the stone portals, we sorta got lost! I'll scan the map
and upload it shortly.

dave

    I have mapped the first 11 levels and have cheked them against the maps
    on the GAMES conference, notes 1607.17, and then seem  to match up.
    
    Oh by the way the Dave the portal you went through on level 4 took you
    to level 7, a Drow level. No wonder you are lost!
    
    James

    I am currently on a level that has all green walls. I can go back thru
    the portal to the level that was orginally reached by going thru the
    portal on level 4. I seem to be wandering around in circles, and am
    wondering if I gave up on the spiders too early. I figure I will go
    back once I get a cure poision spell.
    BTW how do you tell what the rings do?
    							bill

    What does BTW mean?
    

    BTW: By The Way   or something to that effect :-)
    

I sympathize, as notes' brand of alphabet soup was new to me just a short
while back. BTW, IMHO it's downright funky in its own right! Can't say the same
for the ubiquitous sideways smileys, though- they still give me a crick in the
neck-
  _____
 / . . \
{   .   }
 \ \_/ /
  \___/

	Cheers,
		Bob

P.S. Maybe you should patent a new one, SIS, for Sorry If Silly. Catchy or what?

    Sorry about that BTW = By THE WAY
    		     FYI = For your information
    		     
    You see this on the nets a lot so I just added it without thinking. 
    							bill

	I've been playing for a few nights now, but I'm stuck. I must be
	missing something easy. As far as I can tell, I've been all over
	levels 1 and 2, but I can't get through the door on level 2 into
	the room with the ladder down to level 3. Where do I get the key?

	Thanks.

    I will try to look it up tonight . I can't seem to remember much about
    level II anymore. I don't remember needing a key. but those early
    levels are very vague. I know that I restarted, and was able to burn
    through them on the second pass. The Maps for those levels were a help
    but not all that detailed. At any rate I'll look it up tonight when
    I get home. I don't have a modem so unless there is an adventurer that
    has a clearer mind it will have to wait until tomorrow .
    	I have been playing the game nightly(with the hint book) and am
    finding it to be a great game. I know some people that beat it without
    hints, but my experiance tells me that I am
    	1) not cut out to be an adventurer !
    	2) possibly burned out ! 
    	3) both of the above !
    Really I find the game very complex. While some may finihs it without
    the hint book, I can't help think that they missed much of the game.
    there are some things that are complicated even with the book. I kind
    of envy you because there are some really great things you haven't seen
    yet. Of course I have some to go yet so who knows ! 
    							bill

    The gold key spoiler followers
    
    Is located on sublevel 2:death section . Also make sure you have the
    stone dagger before you go to the next level.
    							bill 

    
    Is located on sublevel 2:death section . Also make sure you have the
    stone dagger before you go to the next level.
    
    
    Why, I wasted the zomies without even using it.
    

    THE STONE DAGGER
    spoiler
    
    	The stone dagger is not a weapon it is a key tah is needed later
    to operate one of the stone portals.
    								bill

    re .5 not a magic is good. You will find a cursed axe,and sling, along
    with cursed armor etc; later on
    								bill