Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I cant help you on the C compiler but I am currently in the process
    of adding a SUPRa SCSI disk controller and a 40MB ST4051 and RD50.
    I read up on the wedge and it sounds good.  Its a side mount adapter
    that interfaces a standard IBM P.C. hard disk controller to the
    Amiga 100 and 500 86 pin bus.  It does not pass the bus and so far
    only supports one controller/two hard disks.  From the documentation
    that I got from R.E.I. it looks like the disk controller is exposed
    electronics.  I could be wrong on this point but the inability to
    pass the bus killed it for me.
    
    I could go on with this but it has been said before.  I do have
    the article from April's issue of computer shopper that gives a
    good run down the four most popular alternatives.  If you send me
    your address I can drop it in the U.S. Snail.  This article should
    answer most of your questions.
    
    Still waiting for Abel to fill my order.
    Alan
    

I use an Aztec 3.6 developer system and the Aztec source level
debugger.  The developer system came from Abel - the current price is
about $180.  The debugger came directly from Manx and cost $75. 

I've only used the Manx compiler so I'm not in a position to compare
it with other compilers.  I've heard that the Amiga C compiler,
written by Lattice, doesn't allow imbedded assembler code the way the
Manx compiler does, but I don't know if that's true for other Lattice
compilers.  

The Manx source debugger is great.  If you're familiar with the VMS
debugger in window mode, you'll be right at home with SDB.  It has
the same breakpoint commands, VMS-style command recall and editing,
and a toggle that switches between C source and assembler code.  It
has a print command that produces formatted displays of single
variables or whole structures, and an evaluate command that will
evaluate any C expression (unlike the VMS debugger) and, if desired,
assign the result to a variable (it combines the functionality of the
VMS EXAM, EVAL and DEPOSIT commands). 

The source window has a slider so you can scroll through your source. 
You can also search the source for a string.  The response window 
also has a slider (it's not shown in the picture in the Manx ad), so 
you can scroll through the responses to earlier commands.

Like the VMS debugger, the SDB saves gobs of time and eliminates gobs
of frustration.  It's hard to imagine debugging a C program that
calls Amiga system routines without using something like it. 

Lattice has promised to produce an SDB, but to date that's still 
vaporware, I believe.

- Cliff

SDB sounds real nice. Sure wish it ran with Lattice C.  I asked about
the Lattice SDB on thier BBS and got "we're working on it, real soon now".

The Ldebug demo file posted here recently is nice. It had most of
the usefull features disabled. I don't know if it formats C structures.
It had the same type of environment as VAX Debug, except command recall
and line editing. One nice feature is the multiple windows.

I may just buy that one till Lattice decides it's to thier advantage to get
off their lazy butts and write one. For $35 it seems well worth it.

> evaluate any C expression (unlike the VMS debugger)

What C expressions can't VAX debug evaluate? It's always done well for me...

John

Re: .2

>I've heard that the Amiga C compiler,
>written by Lattice, doesn't allow imbedded assembler code the way the
>Manx compiler does, but I don't know if that's true for other Lattice
>compilers.  

Still true.  The latest Lattice C compiler does not allow embedded
assembly language.

>Lattice has promised to produce an SDB, but to date that's still 
>vaporware, I believe.

I would guess it is at least a year away.

Re: .3

>The Ldebug demo file posted here recently is nice. It had most of
>the usefull features disabled. I don't know if it formats C structures.

I would bet moderately large sums of money it doesn't.  The only way
the debugger knows about anything is because the compiler goes out
of its way to put additional information into the object file.  Lattice
has for a long time put information into the object file about what
code came from what C source statement; it is possible for a debugger
to show source as you step through a program.  However, as far as
I can tell, Lattice puts out no type information into the object file.
So a C struct looks the same as an array or scalar as far as the
debugger can tell.

Bummer. Well, something is better than nothing, I guess.

What other symbolic debuggers are available (for Lattice)? Although
this probably doesn't matter sinch Ldebug did a pretty good job with
what they had to work with (Lattice info).

John

Re: .6

About the only other debugger for Lattice is Metascope from a company
named (I believe) Metadigm.  Metascope is multiwindowed assembly language
debugger that has a truly wonderful Intuition interface.  It is an
excellent example of a program that uses the mouse as the primary source
of input, and does it so well that you wouldn't even want to type to
the program.  (Well, I do use the Amiga key short cut for single step.)

However, Metascope does not display source.  It can display disassembled
code complete with global symbol names, and you can open windows on
memory that will be labeled with the names of the symbols at that
address, but you cannot see the generated source code.

I have found it sufficient for my debugging needs, but then my programs
don't have many bugs :-).

I called LogiComp Software today. They were the originators of the Ldebug
demo.

I got a recording saying that Software Circuits Inc. has taken over Ldebug
and enhanced it quite a bit. 

So I called Software Circuits Inc.  The guy ran down a list of features - 
much to extensive to type here (mostly since I didn't write down what he was
saying, and can't remember it all!). Anyway, it sounds real nice.

He said it doesn't format C structs because, as Randy said, Lattice
doesn't put that stuff in the .OBJ.  But as soon as Lattice does, they will
include it right away. (I blasted Lattice last night on thier BBS, They
probably don't like a pest like me much :-)
                                                                               
He mentioned a linker option which includes even more symbols (from the
#include files) so a printf won't say  CALL mumble+03c5, instead it will
say CALL PRINTF etc..

Also he said it catches the GURU just like GOMF.

As you may have guessed, it's no longer $39.00 - now it's $99.95 - reasonable?

I think I'll pick it up since Lattice doesn't seem interested in doing one.


		Software Circuits Inc.
		701 Northwest 13th St.
		Suite C4
		Boca Raton, FL  33432

John