Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Are You aware that the VMS files have to be in 1 of 2 formats depending on
whether you use KERMIT or X/Y/ZMODEM?

dir/title=download will get you the info you need. 

John

I'm aware, and the files were STREAM_LF used with XMODEM image
transfer.  It could also have been the phone lines too.
But given that I transfered many megs of data this weekend,
and repeated attempts at the two I suspect are corrupt kept
yielding failure, I don't think it was phone lines either.

If anybody has downloaded the specified archives and
unZOOed them, I'll eat my bits and try again.  That's why I started
this topic, it is highly likely that at least *some* of the archives
on TAPE will be corrupt, if for no other reason than corruption
during upload to TAPE::.

Thanks for checking though..
Dave

Dave,

I downloaded FF235.ZOO with no problems so I can vouch for it.

...richard

Fish disks less than 190 (maybe 195) were all copied over to TAPE (via UCX no
less) at one time from a TAR magtape.  So, odds are those are okay.  There 
were some filename conflicts but somebody was fixing those by hand last I 
heard.

brad

re: .3

I'll try ff235 again, carefully examining file attributes, etc..
This is exactly what I wanted to know.  I wouldn't even
have started asking except that I'm mostly successful in
my transfers, and the failures I documented today failed
many times.  

Dave

    Most of these can be tested using the VMS counterparts for the
    commands ARC/ZOO etc.  I haven't found one yet that showed the
    archive was good and then failed on the Amiga.  I never download
    anything without checking the file first using the proper VMS
    program.  Prevents a lot of wasted time downloading corrupted files...
    
    -steve

Well, an attempt using the same methods as last weekend
yielded successful loading of ff176 and ff235. The files
are not corrupt.  Guess it was phone lines.  Really!
I tried many times and they just wouldn't load the other
day.

FF145 - TINYPROLOG - still valid though, the actual
interpreted is missing.

So much for the corruption topic.

Dave

    I was attempting to download a starchart program for my daughter since
    they're studying astronomy in school, but find that the one (StarChart)
    on FF159 is incomplete. A zoo -l just shows the subdirectory names and
    their .info files. I poked around some other early fish disks and found
    similar problems, namely with FF178 and FF145 (as noted earlier). I
    didn't get a chance to try any others.
							    -Dom
						

    Give GAZER2.ARC a try.  It is in TAPE::[UPLOAD].  I don't how it
    compares to StarChart, but it does show constellations and stars by
    relative magnitude.

    Re: .9 
>                             -< In the mean time >-

>    Give GAZER2.ARC a try.  It is in TAPE::[UPLOAD].  I don't how it
>    compares to StarChart, but it does show constellations and stars by
>    relative magnitude.

    Thanks, will give it a try. I also came across AmiGazer on Fish disk 90,
    will give that one a try as well.
							-Dom

	Rather than start a new topic, I'll revive this one...

	There seem to be a number of sections missing from the earlier fish
    disk directories.  Not things that have been withdrawn, but things with
    file names that are 'corrupt' as far as VMS is concerned.  The two that I
    I have noticed so far are PRINT1.2 and Card'o'rama.  I suspect that there
    are a few more.

	Since these were transfered all in one fell swoop from a TAR tape, at
    least acording to some note I read recently, I suspect that these sections
    were left out either when loaded onto the original U*IX system or when they
    were reloaded on the VMS system because of file name errors.

	Is anybody else interested in these old files?  If so, could they be
    loaded onto TAPE.  If not, where can I get them so the Fish Disk collection
    I am trying to build will be complete?

    
    
    	Your correct. I loaded the files from a TAR tape and never found
    the time to fix the files with non VMS names. I have all the older fish
    disks, but have not had a request for any of them.
    	If you want we could get together and copy fish disks or if people
    want I could start filling in the missing fish. The fill-in project
    must wait until Jan. to start.
    
    		Steve Peters
    		Tape System Manager
    

    
       Another program I can't seem to find is a good banner program.
    Everyone I've tried has beed corrupt. I've been waiting for a new
    version to surface for the last year or so. 
    
                           *** May God Bless ***
                               John Chicoine

    
    	Has anyone else experienced difficulty with ff 337 ?
    
    	Is it a "likely suspect ?
    
    	Reg
    

re        <<< Note 2892.14 by ZENDIA::BURGESS "Abject oriented poverty." >>>
>                     -< My Kingpin for this C-Manual  (-: >-

	That was me on a different node.

	It works, but I had to hack the unpack routine just a little 
bit and it un-Zoo's onto a full disk (FULL - as in, "delete the trash 
can and its icon first")  which then lharc's onto 2.n disks of text 
and examples, mostly pretty good stuff.

	Reg

>>My Kingpin for this C-Manual  (-:

Check out :

Directory TAPE::USER2:[UPLOAD]

C_MANUAL.BOOK;1         805   3-MAY-1990 18:57:35.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,)
C_MANUAL.FORMATTED;1
                        769  15-MAY-1990 18:59:38.00  (RWED,RWED,RE,)

First one is from ff337, second one is formatted with page breaks.

Dave

	I've been loading the entire fish collection onto diskettes for the
    local user's group.  I started out with the more recent ones and have
    been working backwards.  Some of the files are missing as mentioned 
    earlier.  I think there may actually be some corrupted files as well...

	On disk 120, I get CRC errors on Bankn/inst.  I've copied it once
    using a PC and sneaker net.  I deleted the local copy I made and then
    copied it again from tape and down loaded it using ZMODEM and VLT.  In
    both cases I got the CRC error from ZOO only on that file.  Has anybody
    else had this problem?

	I got a similar error on two files on disk 124.  Both in Tarot.  I've
    only copied these once so the problem may go away when I try it again.

	FF 156, 166 and 167  all have only the contents, general info 
and .info files in them - i.e. they're essentailly content free.
I've un zoo'd them on the vax AND on the Amiga with the same results.

	Reg

>	I got a similar error on two files on disk 124.  Both in Tarot.  I've
>    only copied these once so the problem may go away when I try it again.

	I copied the .ZOO a second time using a different method and still
    get CRC errors.  DIFF of the local copy and TAPE shows no differences.
    Looks like there is a problem with this one too.  Any body else had this
    problem?

Re .-1:

	I'll have to double check, but I think I got more than one .ZOO file
    for the disks you mentioned.  There was one where I got only 2 of 8 .ZOOs
    if I remember correctly.  I marked the disk for review and proceeded.  I'm
    down to FF090 and still cranking.  It looks like I'll be done by the end
    of January.  What do you all want to do about the missing files?  I was 
    going to look for local copies of the incomplete disks for my own use after 
    I had most of the set complete.  After that I was going to send Fred some 
    money, but I don't have much of that to spare...  Even at bulk rates 400+
    diskettes adds up to real $$$.

re                     <<< Note 2892.19 by VMSNET::WOODBURY >>>
>               -< Still a problem and more on missing files... >-

>    I had most of the set complete.  After that I was going to send Fred some 
>    money, but I don't have much of that to spare...  Even at bulk rates 400+
>    diskettes adds up to real $$$.

	Hmmmm, I feel very indebted to Fred  ......what sort of 
response could we get from this conference if I were to start 
"passing the tin cup"  ?    Outside of the conference, natcherly.

	R

    
    
    	I have plans to solve the FISH Disk problems. First, I will have
    a complete set of Fish disk by the end of the month. I plan to 
    clean up the area on TAPE. I will be ZOOing all the older disks and
    filling in the holes. After I complete the rebuild I'll start working
    on any new problems.
    
    		Steve Peters
    		Tape::Peters ( system manager )
    
    P.S.  Yes, 410 floppies is a lot. It not only cost $$ it takes space
    and a very big box to hold them.
    
    

Re .20:

	I think one of the things Fred would appriciate most is keeping the
    load on him as light as possible.  In my opinion, that means getting 
    copies of the Amiga Lib Disks from indirect sources whenever possible.

	A thank you note would likely to be appreciated also.  Money might be
    interpreted as a request to send disks.

Re .21:

	Thank you.  Could you possibly put some of the older stuff in .LZH
    format when you get a chance?  I have had a little trouble with some of
    the early disks being .ZOOed in odd ways in addition to having some of the
    .ZOO files corrupted or missing.  If you do continue with the .ZOO format,
    could you include the directory.INFO files in the directory.ZOOs in 
    addition to or in place of putting them in the FFxxx.ZOOs?  Please don't
    take this a critisizm.  The fact that you have made this stuff available 
    at all is deeply appreciated.

    re: last few replies
    
    In fairness to Steve, the archive format of the older disks is only
    what Steve got from his sources.  I ought to know -- I am the
    mysterious Mr. XXX who obtained a tape from Lionel Hummel at U of
    Illinois back, oh, about two years ago.  That's also why some "CUCUG"
    disks are on TAPE::.  You should appreciate that Steve and a couple of
    other elves transferred the tape to an Ultrix system and from there to
    TAPE::.  Along the way they had to check for file integrity, translate
    non-VMS-style names, and set up the directory structure.  Lots of
    tedious work.  The original archiving was done by Hummel and other
    students -- if you follow Usenet, you'll see that Illinois students are
    still at it.
    
    Expecting Steve or anyone to go back and re-archive lots of old disks
    is a bit much, I think.  Whether on VAX or Amiga, the effort is very
    labor-intensive.
    
    Now, two years later, I see in a press release that a company is all
    set to offer the complete Fred Fish collection on CD-ROM for $49.95. 
    This is in addition to a different company offering a Fish CD-ROM with
    its drive. The disks will be organized in both full length and ZIPped
    formats.  Updates will appear three times yearly for $29.95 each. 
    Compared to the cost of 400+ floppies that's a tremendous bargain!
    
    Since the CD-ROM will be in standard ISO 7660 format, and someday we,
    Digital, will be able to handle that with our software, let's look
    forward to the day when the vast bulk of TAPE::'s Fish Disk collection
    resides on-line on Steve's desktop.  No smiley face -- various people
    have already put DECUS CD-ROMs on publically available drives for a day
    here or a week there.
    
    Wes

Re .23:

	First, I DO appreciate the work you and the others have done.

	Second, If you add in the cost of the drive, interface board and
    driver, the CD is not such a bargain.  I'm getting the whole set, but
    I expect very few other people are up for it.

	Third, I will be uploading older version disks, when (possibly if)
    I have time after I get the complete set correct and verified, provided
    anybody is interested.

	I have been entering the trouble reports to a number of ends.  The 
    most obvious and least likely to succeed is to see if someone else can
    and will fix the problem.  The second is to see if anyone else is 
    interested.  (Seems to be at least one other person at the moment, but
    I could be wrong.)  Third is to act as a very general 'to do' list for 
    me or anybody else who wants to help.  When I get done with the down
    load phase, I will be building a more complete 'defects' list to drive
    the next phase.  I will probably post that so anybody else trying to 
    build a complete collection will have the information.

>    Expecting Steve or anyone to go back and re-archive lots of old disks
>    is a bit much, I think.  Whether on VAX or Amiga, the effort is very
>    labor-intensive.

	Yep, it is, but I expect it of myself, and that is not too much.
    Sorry I didn't make it clear before what I was doing and saying and why.
    If you want to think of this as me muttering in my mustach, go ahead.

>    Since the CD-ROM will be in standard ISO 7660 format, and someday we,
>    Digital, will be able to handle that with our software, let's look
>    forward to the day when the vast bulk of TAPE::'s Fish Disk collection
>    resides on-line on Steve's desktop.  No smiley face -- various people
>    have already put DECUS CD-ROMs on publically available drives for a day
>    here or a week there.

	That would be nice, but it's not happening now and I am in the middle
    of this project.  If I stop and wait for someone else to do it for me,
    I'll be waiting a loooong time.

	I've finished copying all the available disks through 410.  I've
    also started to verify their contents and I have some bad news.  Of the
    twenty disks I've checked so far, 5 passed the verification, 1 more was
    substantially complete and correct (.info files failed to verify), 1 was 
    complete and had bad files, 10 were incomplete with existing files OK,
    1 was incomplete with existing files substantially correct (.info file),
    and 2 were incomplete with significant files failing to verify.

	There seems to be some pattern to the problem.  The bad files on the
    complete disk were all pictures.  One of the other disks is complete except
    for a missing picture.  From the titles of the of the missing/damaged files
    it is possible that reverand Bowdler got into them...  That is disks 11 and
    12.
	Disks 3, 4, 14 and 15 are missing a few odd files, mostly the 
    executables.  Disk 19 is missing a .info file.  Disks 5, 10, 18 and 20 are
    missing entire directories, all but one of which includes '.' in the 
    directory name.  Disk 16 is missing ALL directories.

	Disk 7 is the HACK game.  It is missing one file and a couple other
    files have been changed.  It might be that someone played it before 
    archiving it...

	Disk 6 containing microemacs is a mess with lots of missing/changed
    files in the microemacs directory.  It might be a different version...

	The Amiga is wonderful.  I'm in the process of checking the Fish
    Disks at the same time I'm writing this note.  Try that on your XT!

	Back to corruption.  First the bad news.  I've checked first 84 
    disks and less than half of them are substantially correct and complete.
    (Substantially means that only .info files failed to check.)  The good
    news is that all 59 of the disks starting with disk 300 are substantially
    correct.  (If I keep this up, I'll have all 100 verified.  9 have checked
    out while I've been editing this note.)

	The proportion of those with .info files that don't check out
    seems to be slightly higher in the later group than the earlier group, but 
    I doubt you can sneak a virus into the 40 some odd bytes in a .info file 
    anyway.  I'll finish up the report on what I've found and post it.

	Speaking of virii, I hear that MACs execute their volume labels so you
    can infect one with a virus simply by sticking an infected diskette into
    the floppy slot.  (I've also heard that VMS used to execute the messages
    in its message files, but have no way to check that.)  Are there any 
    'executable' data structures in the amiga aside from the normal things
    like libraries and program files?

	The new versions of the early fish disks are in much better shape 
    than the original versions.  By combining both versions there are only 
    eight disks in the first fifty that do not check out and none in the next
    fifty.  It's a slow process but I'll keep updating this as I check out
    more of the disks.

	Checked Disks 401-480 and found all passed CRC tests except a few 
    .info files on 411-420 where someone moved some windows around before
    archiving the disks.  These are in very good shape.

481	Missing K1/MULTI/KAWAI4M.BNK,KAWAI5M.BNK,MULTIEXT.BNK (I'll DL it again
	to make sure I didn't chop it myself.)
482	Failed CRC Ephemer/Ephemer
483,4	OK
485	Recalled twice? (485b) - need new version - DrawMap/ReadMe.fnf?
486-9	OK
490	OK

491-510	OK
511	CRC failed on Solitare/Klondike
512	OK
513	CRC failed on DKBTrace/dkb212dt.lzh
514	CRC failed on DKBTrace/dkbutsrc.lzh
515	Several files missing or bad in PP and D110EdDemo
516	CRC failed on X1/req.doc
517	OK
518	Several files missing or bad in AmiDock/dock/
519	CRC failed on OakLisp/oaklisp.lzh
520	CRC failed on OakLisp/bytecode.lzh

> 481	Missing K1/MULTI/KAWAI4M.BNK,KAWAI5M.BNK,MULTIEXT.BNK (I'll DL it again
>	to make sure I didn't chop it myself.)

	Redid the download and the files are missing from the archive.  I didn't
    chop it myself by accident.