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Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Title:AMIGA NOTES
Notice:Join us in the *NEW* conference - HYDRA::AMIGA_V2
Moderator:HYDRA::MOORE
Created:Sat Apr 26 1986
Last Modified:Wed Feb 05 1992
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5378
Total number of notes:38326

257.0. "Questions from a non-owner" by ECCGY1::JAERVINEN (impersonal name) Tue Jan 20 1987 13:09

I have been playing with the thought of getting some sort of a computer
for home; I'm now using a Rainbow that's just on loan. The choice for
me could be an Amiga, Atari ST or a PC Clone (no flames please!).

I have a few questions about Amiga (and please don't start another
Amiga-Atari war here). I'm sure many of the answers can be found here
(and I've read some of this conference already) but access times from
this side of the pond are not all that good...

Lately, Comodore seems to have started a price war here in Germany,
so the price of an Amiga is roughly the same as an Atari 520 ST
(both without monitor; obviously, a B/W Atari is still a bit cheaper
than a color Amiga). That being the case, I cannot thing of many good
reasons for going for Atari...

I will use the beast mainly for ham radio applications (besides the
usual word processing, spreadsheet etc. stuff).

Now to the questions (if the answers can be found here, please provide
pointers to other topics; if a given question is of more general
interest, please feel free to start a new topic for it):

1) What is the resolution and how accurate the real time clock is?
   If I (mis)use one of the game/mouse ports for software decoding
   a strange serial protocol like AMTOR, I must either sample the
   signal at a medium rate (1-3 kHz) or detect the transitions
   without too much jitter.
   
2) Are add-on serial interfaces generally available? How about
   device drivers for them?
   
3) Is the built-in serial interface async only? How fast can it go?

4) Are memory add-ons generally available? 512k seems a bit little.
   Also, I understand that the video chips only access the low 512k.
   How does the O/S handle this if I have >512k?
   
5) Are battery buffered clocks available?

6) Is there a developer's kit or something to document the internals,
   system calls, H/W architecture etc.?

7) Your favorite database system (a la dBASE III)?

8) Your favorite spreadsheet?

9) your favorite word processing package?

10) What is a 'MS-DOS transformer disk'?

11) The serial port has pins labeled 'audio out' (just one) and another
    labeled 'audio in'. What's the audio in? Why not two audio out
    pins here?
    
12) any audio digitizers available (8 bit / 6-8 kHz sampling rate
    is sufficient).
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257.1well,....CHEF::ACCIARDIWed Jan 21 1987 16:13134
    Hello...
    
    Most of your questions are addressed elsewhere in the conference,
    but I will try to quickly answer as many as I can.  If I am in error
    on any points, others will correct me.
    
    First, the Amiga has handily outsold the ST in the USA according
    to available data.  The Amiga was only released in Europe in June
    of '86, hence the greater number of STs.  As of September '86, there
    were 60,000 STs in the USA and 90,000 in Europe, versus 100,000-125,000
    Amigas in the USA.  Undoubtedly, both numbers are higher now, since
    both machines did extremely well this Christmas.  I predict that
    if the Amiga is being sold at the same price as the 520 ST in Germany,
    it will do very well, since the Amiga prices were almost double
    the 520 ST in the USA, and it still managed to survive.  
                                                          
    1.  The Amiga's strong points are graphics.  Right out of the box, the
    	Amiga has 20 different graphics modes, which are...
    
    	320 x 200 w/32 colors out of 4,096, non-interlaced
    	640 x 400 w/16 colors out of 4,096, non-interlaced
    	640 x 400 w/16 colors out of 4,096, interlaced
    	
    	Hold and Modify mode on all of the above modes, which 
    	allows all 4,096 colors to be displayed on the screen
    
    	In addition, the user or programmer may specify up to six bit
    	planes or as little as one.  This makes a very flexible system,
    	in that as little as 8K or as much as 128K may be dedicated to video
    	ram.
    
    	Please note that the 640 x 400 16 color mode will function on any
    	monitor, but a medium or long-persistance monitor should be used
    	to eliminate flicker caused by the interlace.  I use a Sony KV1311
    	with very good results, and CBM has announced a long-persistance
    	model 2080 Color RGB monitor.  For text work, you can buy a low-cost
    	long-persistance monochrome monitor and display 48 rows of text
   	 on the screen.
    
    	The interlace mode is provided to make the Amiga totally NTSC
    	compatible.  This means that any standard NTSC frame may be superimposed
    	over an Amiga 320 x 400 interlace screen.  In fact, I am told that
    	the reason the Amiga clock speed is 7.14MHz is that it is twice
    	the NTSC color burst frequency, whatever that means.  
                                            
    	Because of this, the Amiga gives up 10-15% speed advantage to the ST.
    	Don't be fooled by the slower clock speed, though.  Since both machines
    	use graphics-bit mapped displays, and only the Amiga uses a real
    	hardware bit-blitter, the Amiga seems like greased lightning compared
    	to the ST when it comes to moving large amounts of screen data, or for
    	scrolling text screens (which are just bit-maps, anyway).
    	for example, on the Amiga, the mouse cursor is a hardware sprite,
    	  
    	The Amiga also provides hardware for Bobs (blitter-objects), Sprites,
    	collision detection, etc. 
        
    	In comparison, the ST has only three screen modes...
    
    	320 x 200 w/16 colors out of 512, non-interlaced
    
    	640 x 200 w/4  colors out of 512, non-interlaced
    
    	640 x 400, monochrome only, non-interlaced.
    
    	Currwnt STs have no Blitter, though the new Mega STs do.  It
    	is not clear tha all current ST software will benefit from the blitter.
    
   	To it's credit, the ST monochrome is the best I have ever seen
    	on any PC, much better than the MAC.  However, it requires the
    	use of Atari's special monitor, and most software runs only
    	on Color OR monochrome, but not both.  Most software seems to
   	be written for the Color system, where the ST has no advantage
  	over the Amiga.
    
        Most of the ST business stuff is available for Monochrome, which
    	makes long hours at the keyboard  bearable.
        
    2.  The real time clock, on both machines, is as accurate as your
    	60 Hz line frequency, I believe.  There are numerous sources
    	for battery-backed clocks for the ST and Amiga.
    
    3.  Memory for the Amiga can be had from a dozen or so different
    	vendors.  Prices vary, but I just got a 2-meg board with zero
    	wait states, autoconfiguring, and passes the buss through, for
        $525.00.  Several internal memory boards are coming soon for
    	much less money, since they need not supply a housing.
    	At present, the Amiga custom Blitter and Sound chips can only
    	address the lower 512K of memory. This does not seem to be a
    	limitation, since data can be moved into and out of chip ram at
    	extremely high speed.  For example, I can run DeluxePaint, and
    	create a brush the size of the screen.  I can move the brush
    	off of the screen, and by monitoring my chip memory, I see that
    	the chip memory is intantly made available to the system.
    
    4.  There is a full documentation kit of the ROM Kernal, Intuition,
    	hardware, etc. available.
    
    5.  The best database seems to be Superbase, which has gotten rave
    	reviews.
    
    6.  The Amiga is currently weak in word-processing, with Scribble!
    	and Textcraft being the only widely available choices at this
    	time.  Scribble is my choice, since it supports multiple documents
    	being open, has a spell checker, and runs faster.
    	ProWrite seems like a winner, with the ability to change
    	fonts within a document, merge text and graphics, support multitasking,
    	etc.  ProWrite should be available by this spring.  Batteries
    	Included is doing a version of PaperClip Elite.	
    
    7.  Audio digitizers are available from FutureSound and someone
    	else, whose name slips my memory.  You can sample at higher rates
    	at the expense of memory.	
        
    8.  The Amiga has real stereo output, and built-in sound capabilites
    	that are unbelievable.  The ST has a very boring 3-voice sound
   	chip, and a built in MIDI port.  MIDI ports are available for
    	the Amiga from a half dozen different vendors, from $40 to $80.
        
    9.  The Amiga Transformer has been around for about 9 monts, and
    	will run almos all non-graphics software at 50-75% the speed of
    	a stock PC.  The Sidecar has been available in Canada and Europe,
    	but is still awaiting FCC paperwork for the states.  It is a PC
    	add on that will sell for around $699.00.
         
    Well, I am getting really tired now.  But, the Amiga is a fantastic,
    fully expandable machine with more built-in goodies than anything
    else available.  The new Mega ST from Atari is more Amiga-like,
    with detachable keyboard, blitter, but still has the ST meager set
    of graphics modes, and cheap sound chip.
    
    Hope this helped.
    
    	
    
257.2Digital Sound SamplersPUERTO::ALVAREZMiguel,from sunny Puerto RicoWed Jan 21 1987 17:5412
    In the Jan/Feb '87 issue of AmigaWorld there is a review of Digital
    Sound Samplers for the Amiga. They range from $349 to $79.95.
    
    The article mentions, among other things, that the Amiga's max.
    sampling rate is 28Khz, which effectively limits you to ~ 15khz
    for the max. frequency you can sample if you follow the rule of
    digitally sampling at least twice the analog frequency. I can copy
    the article and send it to you.
    
    I'm not very knowledgeable in this area, but from the article it
    seems to me you can do some very sophisticated things with what's
    available.
257.3BAGELS::BRANNONDave BrannonWed Jan 21 1987 22:169
    re: .1  one oops in the resolutions
    the second one should be 640x200 not 640x400 for non-interlaced
    
    The Amiga uses interlace to get the 400 vertical pixels.  Not quite
    as nice as the 400 monochrome resolution on the ST but it is in
    color, 16 of them.  Very nice.  And you don't need a special monitor
    to see them.
    
    -dave
257.4ECCGY4::JAERVINENimpersonal nameThu Jan 22 1987 07:1415
    re .*: Thanks for the replies!
    
    re .1: Special thanks to you for typing in such a long reply...
    but I'm going to pester you with further questions: How would you
    compare the KV1311 with the 1080? I've seen the Amiga in local shops
    here, and one of the major objections is the text quality on the
    1080 (I found graphics to be ok, though). Or, how do you connect
    a B/W monitor to it? I don't do that much actual text processing
    unless you count program development etc. for which I might prefer
    a B/W monitor anyway.
    
    re .2: a 6-8 kHz sampling rate would be totally sufficient for my
    applications, I don't need HiFi.. (PCM/ISDN telephone systems use
    8 kHz 8 bit sampling).
    
257.5Monitors...CHEF::ACCIARDIThu Jan 22 1987 11:2050
    More on monitors...
    
    I originally bought a 1080 with my Amiga in October '85.  At the
    time, it seemed like a good buy.  Text is OK, much better than,
    say, an IBM with CGA (640 x 200).  At the time, I felt that the
    Atari ST had a really great 80-column RGB text display, good
    definition, and no visible scan lines.  I think part of the trick
    is that the smaller display shows more pixels/in^2.  Unfortunately, I
    hated the Atari's slow graphics and I loathe GEM. Plus, I swore
    that as long as I live, I would never muck around with having to
    create custom printer drivers for every program.  (The Amiga has
    global printer support, something that GEM was supposed to have,
    but got 'left out' of the ST)
    
    So, I was stuck with the 1080.  The 1080 has some color bleeding, and
    the characters look kinda washed out.  Also, the screen image is not
    square, but sorta bows at the top and bottom.  The new 1080 displays
    are much better, as I understand CBM has changed suppliers. 
    
    The colors on the Sony are breathtaking, and the display is
    rectangular, and curved in only one plane to reduce distortion and
    glare.  To really appreciate the Sony, you should run it in interlace
    mode.  (I do this by installing the 'SETLACE' command in my
    startup-file).  This essentially causes the 200 horizontal
    scan lines to be sent out twice per frame, rather than once.  What
    this does is completely eliminate any visible dark bands between
    scan lines, which I consider a flaw in the Sony.  When run in this
    mode, 80 column text is as good as any I have ever seen, even better
    that the old ST RGB monitors.  Atari has now substituted a cheap Korean
    monitor for the original Hitachi, so ST 80-column RGB is no longer
    anything to write home about.
    
    Anyway, the 1080 certainly hasn't helped to sell Amigas.  The screen
    just doesn't show enough contrast under bright store conditions.
    The Sony uses a black matrix design, whatever that is, and is really
    a delight to look at.  I would personally recommend a 1201, since
    the 12" screen will increase the pixel density.  But, the 1311 has
    a tuner in it, so you automatically get a nice Trinitron TV to boot!
    
    On monochrome, I do not know anyone who has hooked one up, but I
    imagine it's just a matter or finding the Amiga RGB pinouts, getting
    the proper cable, and sending it in.  There are several companies
    who can connect an Amiga to anything, and if you're interested,
    I'll post their phone numbers here.  They can probably recommend
    a good monitor/cable combo.  If you could find a monochrome
    composite monitor, I think you just need to send the Lumna signal
    from the Amiga composite port into the monitor.  Composite usually
    sucks compared to RGB, though.  
    
    
257.650369::JAERVINENimpersonal nameThu Jan 22 1987 11:3416
    Thanks again.
    
    In fact, I dropped in at a dealer here during lunchbreak; he had another
    Commodore monitor, something with 8xxx I believe, hooked up. There
    was no one around and it was just displaying the initial picture
    of the workbench floppy so you couln't say much about the quality.
    It was a bit cheaper in fact than the 1080.
    
    In some other note in this file, someone explained he tried a VR241
    on the Amiga but wasn't happy. Has anyone else tried this out?
    
    And one more question about the real time clock: I find it hard
    to believe that the thing would only use a line clock (which would
    be 50 Hz here anyway). Sure it must have some sort of a 'real' real
    time clock or programmable timer? 16.6667 or 20 ms resolution simply
    isn't enough for anything.