Conference 7.286::digital

re: .0
    
>    Rather than fleeing manufacturing and the design that goes behind
>    it, it may be Digital's only "core competency"

Could be.  It also seems like Christ and Pesatori (and maybe Cabrinety) are
heading toward a position where they could be spun off as separate companies.
The CBU managers and Rando would seem to be at the greatest risk here, in
that their business is most dependent on multiple functions (sales, marketing,
SI/PS, etc.) for execution of their business plans.  For someone with one or
two cash cow products specific to their market (like DSM for Health Industries)
this could be viable.  I'm not sure i'd want to be in the shoes of some of the
others.
    
>    A profitable Digital may be a boutique for high-end microprocessor design.

More likely this would make us a prime buy-out candidate...good for the
stockholders in that case!
    
>    The type of long sales cycle selling that I've been invovled in for 10
>    years may be abandoned to the other systems integrators.  In meetings,
>    like in these notes conferences I'm always asking "where's our
>    valued-added"?

I think software was our "value-added" for a while...but the integration of
our systems and network software was too clunky and ill-conceived to be
maintainable and extensible in directions that customers wanted to head in.
And we seemed to get overly grandiose and bogged down in our own internal
efforts to re-architect our way out of it...so the nimbler and less grandiose
proto-mammals ate our poor old dinosaur eggs before they hatched (in effect).

								paul

    re.1 Patrick,you have my deepest sympathy.I am a fellow sufferer so I
    know what it is like.Last year,our EIC had the highest pure value-added
    software engineering ever-nearly 6m$ of CUSTOMER paid engineering from
    which we could build platforms.Result?Last years bookings are this
    years delivery.Result?The numbers aren't big enough!It is handed down
    that it is better to deliver lots of standard kit than pure value
    added.Can you beleive it!No?Read some of the CBU plans-like the CEM
    plan and try to detect any mention of value added.
    Frankly,in SI,anybody can eat our lunch until we learn that it is all
    about value-added and not just a natty way of delivering.
    Example-customer buys a machine for 250k$.Third party partner delivers
    a licence for his application(350k$ if you please).Digital ships the
    hardware to this third party with a discount but we register this as a
    600k$ SI deal!No wonder our internal SI figures are three times what
    independant analysts give us.Ever read the Emperors New Clothes?I only
    hope Gresh will stand up and say he has none.
    Cheers

    No one seems to know how much of the SI figures are hardware and
    third-party pass throughs.
    
    Until that's clear, let's be thankful that the trade press thinks we're
    a big wheel in SI, but let's not fool ourseleves either.
    
    A lot of SI business that I see and can read about in between the lines
    in Digital Today and the trade press is Digital absorbing a huge risk
    (typically organizational or technical) in order to place Digital
    hardware into account.  The risk is one that's rejected by the customer
    or by the third parties.  The reward is hardware market share.
    
    I've called this "creating a customer satisfaction hostage".  It's a
    club (to use some DEC jargon) to beat up on parts of DEC that need to
    help on an uplanned, unscheduled, unfunded basis.
    
    The re-org to CBU's puts more of a spotlight on risk and more projects
    are rejected as unprofitable.  Rather than giving us a bigger stream of
    profitable projects, in my opinion, we're just imploding the capability
    to do SI with Digital's employees.  If Digital employees are not the
    "technical talent" that are doing the planning, design, and
    implementation of the total solution, then what is the value-added?

    Guys (and gals), you're missing the point on SI.  Everyone in the
    industry is measured as prime contractor and total value.  So, an EDS,
    for example, gains by selling IBM hardware, third party software, etc,
    much more than Digital.  At least, we have a line of hardware and
    software that is ours that can be applied to the business.
    
    Secondly,  most of our competitors in the SI arena are happy selling
    an IBM solution.  IBM hardware is significantly more expensive than a
    comparable solution from any other vendor.  Therefore, companies
    offering IBM based solutions are benefitting more than Digital from
    "passing on" hardware costs.
    
    Don't do anything to downplay Digital's eventual role in SI.  We need
    all the $$$ we can get credit for.  By the way, I know a lot of people
    that work for the competitors, and their technical people are no where
    near as sharp as our's.  Now, if only Digital had their partners (8^)
    )...
    
    Just some thoughts,
    
    Jack Boyle    

    Digital's senior management doesn't have obvious lines of
    responsibility.  There's a Darwinian struggle taking place.

    In theory all profit and loss passes through the CBU's, yet the CBU is
    populated by holdovers who have been spending years artfully dodging
    the accountability for the losses, revenue declines, and market share
    extinction.

    The new hires in the management ranks of the functions are, in theory,
    servants of the CBU's, yet have been hired by Palmer, not Olsen, and
    have a strong sense of what it takes to run a business, and even
    stronger personalities.

	>I know a lot of people that work for the competitors, and their    
    	>technical people are no where near as sharp as our's.  Now, if only 
    	>Digital had their partners
    
    The person who wrote this didn't know how close to the truth he came...
    
    /d.c.

    Digital is in the position now of having two lines of products and
    services:
    
         Ones that are sold based on information that the customer already
         has regarding the characteristics of the product.
    
         Here the customer buys based on specs, pricing, availability in
         some mix.  One month it's Gatweway, next month it's Compaq, this
         month it's Digital.  Digital expects that Alpha AXP running
         Windows NT will join this group.
     
     This represents the business that Digital wants to be in the future.
    
         Others that are sold based on face-to-face contact with the
         customer. We go to their office, they come to ours.  We talk. We
         talk. We write proposals.  The customer decides.  We've called
         this the sales cycle. Then we deliver, then we get paid.
     
     The sales cycle, as customers know it, is dead.  Competitors such as
     IBM, HP, and Sun that are still selling this way we take market share
     away from us.

    In a concise picture the new "New Digital" is the upscale combination
    of Intel and Compaq.
    
    The design and manufacture of RISC technology.
    
    The design and manufacture of low-end and mid-range computers systems
    based on AXP and Intel technology.

    I hope this isn't a part of the "new digital", but some things
    never change.           
    
    I LOR'd a co-workers problem today and it was considered 
    "important".  This customer is bent out of shape.  He is also
    local, or close enough to the CSC that he drove to our door to
    get a patch tape that didn't work.  Now he's really bent out of
    shape.  After initiating the LOR procedure, I got a timely answer
    as to, let's just say "who's handling it".  The specialist called
    the customer after and asked him if he got a response. (as in a quick 
    phone call; "Yes sir, I'll be getting back to you in N hours") <YAWN>.
    Hell no.  This customer has been sitting around with a busted
    machine all day, and one of our guys has gone above and beyond
    his duty to keep this guy from going ballistic.  Now he's really
    bent out of shape.  This customer isn't *SMALL* either.
    
    Heck I personnaly have 2 LOR's "still open".  One is from last October,
    should I give up on it? (I can't, it hasn't been officially "closed" 
    yet, maybe the guy gave up and threw our stuff out the back door.) 
    
    Oh, BTW: I wore a "Hooters" (a restraunt that my 9 month old son has
    been in with my wife and in-laws) T-shirt to work today.  For some reason,
    it was deemed "sexist" by <someone> and I told my boss I wouldn't wear 
    it to work anymore.  I just happen to like it because of Alan
    Kulwicki, who drove for Hooters, the 1992 Winston Cup Champion who was 
    killed in a plane crash on 4/1/93.  (I personnaly was on hand to watch 
    him win the championship last year, and liked him for his attitude.  I 
    even walked to his pit and spoke with his crew before the race.)  That 
    someone I was told is "higher than my boss", and I didn't really take 
    offence to it, but now that I think about it, DON'T THEY HAVE ANYTHING 
    BETTER TO DO THAN COMPLAIN ABOUT A SHIRT WITH AN OWL ON IT?
    
    I was supposed to work at home, I got NO COMMUNICATION about anything,
    so the day before I was supposed to be ready to go, I took it upon
    myself to prepare for this.  My hardware was signed out by a manager
    at 2:00pm.  While I'm home setting up everything, making room for
    a large volume of stuff, the word comes down at 4:00pm that, we'll 
    "CANCEL" this deal.  I dial into work Tuesday (monday was a holiday) and 
    scan my mail. "Bring your stuff back - sorry".  "Fine" I said.  "See you 
    tomorrow."
    
    The stuff I mentioned is trivial, but chips away at the stone.
    
    Please don't let this be the "new digital".  I'm trying my best, and
    so aren't others to do what's "right".  Let's stop the infighting
    amongst ourselves.  Our customers can see it.  That's why _I'm_ here.
    My former employer (MAJOR in size: I can point to a notesfile, where 
    lots of folks were commending the scorer) saw it, and booted my 
    butt along with the hardware/software out.  That's bad business, very 
    bad. Now I'm here and I SEE WHY IT HAPPENS!  We've got to stop 
    broadcasting bad (or no) vibes.  
    
    Ah, I kinda feel better now.  :'|
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike

    Mike you've forced a connection between two problems that isn't there.
    Both are real problems but not connected.

    I couldn't follow the stream of consciousness writing style of the
    second paragraph.  Is it your point that the CSC was working very hard
    to solve a customer satisfaction problem but you were not getting help/
    coordination/recognition from the "local office"?  Or that the "patch
    tape" didn't work?  Or something else, perhaps a lack of gratitude from
    the customer?

    What specifically are your expectations for other employees in Digital
    to solve this problem?

    As for your "Oh, BTW", "Hooters" of course is slang for women's breasts
    and that ambiguity isn't evaded by the people who started the
    restaurant chain with that name: they didn't call it "Owl's".

    You should be able recognize that people could be and are offended by
    such T-Shirts and that Digital has the obligation to provide a
    workplace that doesn't have conflicts over whether or not your T-Shirt
    is offending or not.

    I've never quite understood the LOR procedure.  Most of the LOR's I've
    seen in this office were things that got referred to CSC bvecuase a
    local guy decided he was out of his depth and told the customer to
    call CSC.
    
    What, exactly is supposed to be the local response to an LOR?
    
    \dave

>    As for your "Oh, BTW", "Hooters" of course is slang for women's breasts
>    and that ambiguity isn't evaded by the people who started the
>    restaurant chain with that name: they didn't call it "Owl's".

	I don't know why you say "of course", the only think I've ever
	heard hooters being used for (apart from the siren type things) is 
	owls, or noses.

	It would be nice to give people the benefit of the doubt before
	rushing off and complaining.

	Heather

    re: .10 Hooters
    
    I'm not suprised your shirt offended someone in Digital.  We
    seem to spend a whole lot of time ensuring everyone is politically
    correct in word and deed and that no one's tender sensibilities are
    offended in the slightest.  Too bad we can't spend all that energy
    taking care of customers, finding new customers and becoming
    profitable and internationally competitive.
    
    I'm reminded of a recent cartoon.  It showed soldiers leaving a
    battlefield aftering beating the U.S.  Talking about U.S. forces,
    one of the victorious soldiers said "they couldn't fight worth a
    damn but they sure were diverse."  Substitute "compete" for "fight"
    and perhaps that's where we're headed.
    
    Whoever complained about your shirt probably wouldn't value a
    Polish victory lap either.  Oops, I've probably offended someone.
    
    gs
    
                   

    Heather, if there's a single high-school student in the United States
    that doesn't know that "hooters" are vulgar slang for women's breasts, I
    would be very surprised.  I suspect that SUBURB is Reading, England,
    and I assure you that if you overhear someone in Georgia (USA, that is)
    refer to a pair of hooters, they are not talking about two owls.
    
    (re: .10) I think it's insulting and immature to suggest that employees
    have "tender sensibilities".
    
    I think "too much energy" is spent in the pushing the limits of what is
    acceptable and then challenging the people to respond to what they find
    offensive.  That can be done outside the office.
    
    Pat Sweeney

    RE: .15  by SDSVAX::SWEENEY 
    
    >Heather, if there's a single high-school student in the United States
    >that doesn't know that "hooters" are vulgar slang for women's breasts, I
    >would be very surprised.  ...
    
    I didn't know.  But then, it's been a long, long time since I was in
    high school.  
    
    You're right about Heather though.  The Devon Dumpling does indeed work
    in Merrie ole England and if you tell her you wanna banger she probably
    will take you to the caf' rather than to personnel.
    

Golly! I am sorry, but I didn't know this definition of "hooters",
my dictionary doesn't mention it, and my high school age son and
his friends didn't know about it either. This is really embarrassing!
I could have been branded as a bad hombre for wearing a shirt with
an owl on it!
Now that I have been informed I'll _NEVER_ do that.

What an interesting way to get a bad rep without even trying!
And to be condemned as pushing the limits of decency without a word!
Kind of like somebody gluing a "Kick me" sign on your back while
you are unawares.

Now that we have confirmed that owls (hooters) are patently obscene,
I move that we destroy the whole lot of them and remove all mention
of them. This should cure the problem.

Once that is done we should start to weed out all other things whose
names have double meanings like roosters, hens, donkeys, several ice cream
novelties, female dogs, cats, ... Oh wow! This could start a whole
new career for some types of control minded individuals. After we were
done removing all of these things there wouldn't be much to argue about.

As a matter of fact there wouldn't be much left.

   8^)  ;^)  8*)  8^)


 Sorry, just couldn't resist!

 On a serious note though, why impute improper motives without justification?
 Oh the other hand, if something really bothers someone and it is not a big
 deal to  change it, why not be kind to that person.

 With balance, consideration and mutual respect we can get along.


 dave

I'm taking this further down the "Hooters" rathole but I have to have my say.

How would you strate guys like to be taken into a bar/restaurant that is
called "Big Dick's Bar and Grill" and have male waitpersons clad only in 
small g-strings (that is concealing a well endowed body part)?   And your
spouse or female friend who is with you, oogling and ahhing the whole time
you are there?  

My husband told me he didn't think he would like it a bit.  And he was the 
one that came up with that scenario after I told him I didn't want to go 
to Hooters for a business networking meeting and he didn't understand why
until he let his imagination run wild.

As a woman that has had breast cancer and had both breasts removed and now
have implants in their place, I particularly find Hooters offensive.  It is 
a constant reminder of my surgery and how my breasts don't look as good as 
the originals and never will.  But at least I'm here to tell my story and
just wish `boobs' weren't so important that they need to be displayed in the
manner that they are at Hooters (and in Playboy and.....).

Judy

I think the term "Hooters" used in this context is more common in the
south than in New England. I had never heard of it until I visited
one of these establishments.

Mark

    
    "Hooters" used to refer to breasts is regional slang.  It is almost
    never heard in the northeast.
    
    STeve
    

    
    Gee .... guess I had better quit wearing my Planter's Nuts T-shirt
    to work on Fridays.
    

...better quit wearing my
	"I've Gone Down In The Devil's Triangle" diving shirt... 

	somebody with a pink triangle on their shirt might get offended, too.

    re: .11
    Sorry for the rambling, it was kinda late at night and I had a lot
    on my mind.  Maybe it didn't come out the way I wanted.
    
    In all fairness, I found out this morning for the SWS that the local
    "problem manager" secured a "warm body" who was able to get to the 
    customer site late yesterday and he worked (but wasn't able to correct)
    the problem.  He worked 'till 11pm, so at least we showed some effort.
    
    Re: my 2 lor's.  When a call comes into the CSC that I can't resolve
    over the phone for several reasons:
    1).  I _CAN'T_ work with the person (lack of knowledge or computer
         skills)
    2).  The guy is hostile and/or won't implement my solution
    3).  The customers site is an "unsupported" configuration and he's
         not telling me "the whole story". 
    4).  I can't physically put my hands on his hardware.
    
    I have no choice but to LOR (local office referal) back to whoever
    is local to the customer.  Once I lor something, a tech manager
    (engineering) and a problem manager (local guy) coordinate servicing
    the customer.  At that point in time "I'm out of the loop", but
    still have "an open call".  It is up to the Problem manager to work
    with the customer, and provide a solution, wether it's send someone
    to the site that knows how to get into the UAF, NCP, SYSGEN....
    or if the problem is deeper (cheap home built PC's which will not
    work).
    
    I still have 2 open.  One from Oct. 26 and the other from Feb 10.
    I assume the customers problems got resolved, but yet I can't close
    them out and it make me look bad (a call open for 8 months).
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike
    (off to a meeting)

    Once down the PC rathole.....you just don't stop. Everything is
    offensive to someone.
    
    Marc H.

    
    Re: LORs
    
    I realize this is a rathole, but...
    
    The whole LOR process is BROKEN.  The fact that a customer contacts the
    CSC generally means that he was unable to fix the problem by calling
    the local Digital tech person he sees daily.  Software problems in
    particular *CANNOT* be resolved by field people.  They have no source
    code, no expertise etc.
    
    When a problem is too difficult for the CSC to fix, The next step
    should be engineering or a group attached to engineering, not hardware
    service people.  I understand that it would be wise to put a Digital 
    person on site to make the customer understand we are working on the 
    problem, but too often it is the wrong person.  
    
    JMHO,
    
    -Ed
    

    re: .14, Right on gs.
    
    re: .15
    > (re: .10) I think it's insulting and immature to suggest that
    > employees have "tender sensibilities".
    
    Were you actually aiming at me Pat or did you get the number wrong?  
    I don't believe that was my intention, if so, you missed.  As far as 
    your assumption that I was pushing or testing boundries, let's just say 
    I'm leaving my Bill Elliot (Budweiser) and Dale Earnhardt (GM Goodwrench) 
    shirts at home now too so I don't offend people that dislike those 
    companies.  I honestly never thought anything of it, until I was made 
    aware of someones dislike of Hooters restraunts.
    
    re: .18
    Hooters is a name of a restraunt chain based in Atlanta which has about 
    75 restraunts scattered around the country but located mainly in the
    South.  They happen to sponser an ARCA race car (formerly they also
    sponsored a Winston Cup Stock Car) and a jet rocket car at least,
    and I think they have a drag boat too.
    
    I like your comparison of "g-strings" vs. what the waitresses _REALLY_
    wear, jogging shorts and T-shirts.  You ever been to one?  Like I
    mentioned, my _wife_ brought our son and her parents into the place
    for lunch.  It can't be _that_ bad.  Granted, after 10pm it tends to
    get "roudy".  BTW: If you ever go to Daytona, stay out of "checkers",
    even though the names PC.
    
    Finally, I'm sorry you find the name of the restraunt offensive.
    
    Regards,
        
    Mike

    "The new Digital"= nitpick about what people wear instead of doing the
    job they're paid for.      not!
    
    Dress code: what does personnel say.  Personally, I wear suit and tie
    4 days a week, and business casual on Friday.  That specifically means
    no jeans, tennis shoes, tshirts etc.  Next thing you know, they will
    tell me what to eat, and when to eat it.
    
    I really don't think that it matters what you wear, as long as you do 
    what your paid for.  I know the Hooters thing has been dragged out,
    but honest to god," YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME,
    YOU CAN PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT YOU CAN'T PLEASE
    ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME".
    
    I could probably walk around and look in cubicles and get offended by
    what they have on the walls.  Freedom of speech. oh well, enough of
    this petty stuff.  The new Digital.
    
    back to the new Digital.  Besides lower headcount, a revised logo, a
    new leadership team, a new strategy, new sales techniques, new pricing,
    new marketing, new advertisements, gosh, I just can't think of
    anything.
    
    Bob
    

    Gee I hate to stay in a rathole :-)  but
    
    "hOOters" on the shirt is pictured, as I recall, with the two O's over
    the, uh, white meat of the bird in question, just in case anyone misses
    the reference.  The logo is rather obvious about its double-entendre.
    
    And in New Jersey, I've seen a billboard for a local take-off called
    "BazOOka's".  That's regional slang too.
    
    Having once actually been to a Hooter's, I can vouch for the, uh,
    skimpy costumes worn by the waitresses.  I was slightly embarassed to be
    there (as part of a group, of course, but not a DEC er Digital group). 
    I wouldn't take my family there, but I can imagine some customer-types
    for whom it would be a good choice.
    
    The chicken wings were pretty good though.
       fred

    Well, Bob said pretty much what I was trying to get at.
    
    .28 I'll see your rathole and raise you.  Your claimed "hOOters" is
    pictured on the shirt is not valid in my example.  All the letters are 
    the same size.
    
    That said, what about the mailroom clerk that's wearing a
    "MEGADEATH" t-shirt?  Is that offensive?  I don't know.
    What about the skimpy dresses?  HECK, I LIKE THEM.  Is that
    offensive?  Not to me.  Out of respect for a co-workers
    wishes, I'll not wear the shirt anymore.  Now about those
    tennis shoes your wearing, and the picture of your <generic your>
    "lover" in your cube....
    
    When I come to work everyday I come to do what I get paid
    for, my job.  I'm not here to make a fashion statement or play
    games.  This whole deal seems quite ironic as I was just involved
    in an interesting discussion with an individual elsewhere
    on the net and he managed to sway my opinion as to an issue
    he had.  With an open mind I saw his point of view so it
    did increase my awareness to his side of the story.  Now here's
    me saying "I wasn't aware of the offensive nature of my shirt
    to this individual".  Deja Vu? (conspiracy I'll bet :'))
    
    My main concern for my initial note was "Teamwork".  I bust
    my butt at work every, and the trivial junk seems to detract
    from the big picture, to make our customers happy.  While some
    folks are still out trying to hold the company together and
    "turn the ship around", or keep it from sinking, others have
    time to make sure everything stays PC.  I initially identified
    3 or 4 fragmented observations (incoherent?) :')  If I put
    "the real stuff" in... I'd be talking to folks I DON'T WANT TO
    TALK TO.  
    
    You want PC.  I suggest digital issue company uniforms.  Not a
    problem anymore.  Personal effects in our cubes are no longer
    allowed.  No personal names anymore.  "HEY!  Where are you
    going?  To the bathroom?  Didn't you just go?"  It's 8:01am,
    your late.  "NO TALKING!".  There, the problems solved.  NOT!
    
    Let's make tons of money and have fun doing it.  Have a nice
    day y'all.
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike

    I just know that this thread was the invention of a smoker and I really
    appreciate it. Notes like these do a great job of drawing attention
    away us smokers who fear our last frontier hanging outside in
    unbearable heat and humidity may be taken from us eventually. 
    
    
    Here in Baltimore, we have a great Hooters. It's one of the main
    attractions of our Harbor Place. Some of the best chicken wings you
    ever tasted are served here and at quite reasonable prices.
    
    I think I miss Nassar...

    re: .25,
    
    I agree the LOR process can be improved, however, I don't think it
    operates the way you think it does.  
    
    Digital's CSC's have a reputation for providing "good" service.
    (i.e. if the call pertains to Lotus/Microsoft/word perfect, THEY STILL
    CALL US FIRST - I *HATE* having to say, that's a Microsoft problem, 
    did you call them?   "well, they don't know which end is up so I called
    you first".)  Also, A LOT of our customers have software contracts.  At
    the slightest hint of trouble, they call us expecting service.  Mention
    the word Pathworks and we get it.  I fix VAX's/PC's other apps that
    don't work with certain things, tune systems, diagnose network 
    config problems, fix MS windows problems.... they just said the
    magic words "pathworks". 
    
    Here's another thing to chew on.  DOWNSIZING!  I talked to a
    "Network Manager" who didn't know how to get into NCP and his
    "system manager" that didn't know what the UAF was.  These people
    were "JANITORS", and since their fine companies canned the "real" 
    people who knew what was going on, they made the secretary the "system 
    administrator".  (no offence intended, actually this is a reasonable 
    choice because they tend to be smart and can get up to speed quicker than 
    the average employee.)  This is getting more common of people we  
    support nowadays.  These people don't need "support", WE NEED TO SELL THEM
    TRAINING!  Even today, I talked with a guy THAT COULDN'T "SET DEFAULT"!
    but remember, I got to speak both DOS & VMS, so maybe this guy was
    a DOS wiz, but a VMS dud.  Who knows, but you get the idea.
    
    So a lot of folks call us FIRST, because they know they will get
    an answer.  This has caused "problems" within our business but
    that's being addressed.
    
    When an LOR is issued it can either be handled properly, or it
    can be "dropped".  I hope and think the majority of people who
    are assigned as problem managers know how to handle this situation
    and put the proper person into the site, and not send some "bozo"
    especially when the customer is po'd.  When a non-knowledgable 
    person shows up for a specific customer problem and doesn't know
    what he's in for, that is a problem.  I remember in a prior life,
    the DEC board swapper.  He'd come in and destroy more hardware than
    what was origionally busted.  It was a joke.
    
    Also.  If/when a salesperson sells a non-supported config into
    a site, such as 1000 mom & pop PC's and then the whole deal doesn't
    work... it's understood that the _salesman_ will support it.
    If it's not in the SPD or IOG it's unsupported.  We've gone out of our 
    way supporting unsupported stuff.  I was the guy that CLD'd the 
    compac 50/M & pathworks problem.  Compac bent some rules to gain speed, 
    and we conformed to spec, but somehow "it was our fault it didn't work 
    properly".
    
    Regards,
                                
    Mike

    Mike, can you make a suggestion that would improve teamwork and
    customer satisfaction?

    I've mentioned before (and explained in detail) that it came to pass
    that people in field offices with technical job codes like 52A* and 54A*
    can't be expected to have knowledge of what a UAF is, or do many other
    elementary tasks.

    The day-to-day routine of software specialists and software consultants
    once upon a time was patterned after programmers and system managers,
    that is, the people who are the end-users of those support contracts. 
    That's just no longer true, and can't be made to be true in the future.

    
    Re: .25 and the LOR topics:

    I am a "field person" (MCS Support) and I handle LOT's of LOR's
    for many software products.  My specialty is supporting U*IX, ULTRIX,
    DEC OSF/1, SUN, SCO U*ix kernels and networking. I have been formally 
    trained through the source code internals levels on our kernels and
    external system admin training on the other vendor platforms.  This 
    includes system management, performance, and networking courses.  
    I have access to source code (and can read it!), systems running 
    ULTRIX, DEC OSF/1 and OpenVMS with a PATHWORKS environment that I 
    personally manage in order to duplicate customer problems, create 
    and test patches, read notes 8^) etc.  LOT's of field people that
    handle the LOR's have this setup and training.  I know six cities
    in my region that have equal or better U*ix support capabilities.
    I understand that some offices do not have such local support and 
    have not had the management support or funding to get them there.

    I also have a CHAMP/CSC account.  When I get an LOR I go back and 
    review the work units for the call.  Most show excellent research
    and a lot of hard work.  Some are sent to the local office with
    very little effort expended by the person that worked them in the
    CSC and end up being resolved over the phone in my local office.
    (This is the exception, though.  Most are very difficult and many
    are real live bugs that must be sent to engineering for resolution.)

    When the local office receives an LOR, most problem managers (or
    the local office LOR coordinator or customer service engineer or
    software specialist... (yes, we do have software specialists in field
    service now and have for several years that know what a UAF is and
    can even MODIFY it!)  Wow. 8^)... contacts the customer to let them 
    know we will be working with them to resolve their problem.

    Like all technical employees, technical support personnel do not 
    have the same expertise on all of the products they are required to 
    support.  It would be great if an expert on a product or application 
    was always available to assist everyone locally ONSITE on every call 
    for all products. (wait, I know!  Let's just add a ton of NEW people
    and put local software experts everywhere!  I know, let's just let 
    them handle the calls in the first place and we won't NEED to do 
    LOR's!)  8^)

    The local office must handle LOR's from all CSC groups for all products.
    They cannot staff experts for all hardware and software products that
    they get calls on.  The responsibility of the local office for LOR's
    is to MANAGE them.  As in my case, local product expertise does exist. 
    When the local office doesn't have someone who can assist the customer
    with the products they need help with, be assured that if they work 
    with their support groups and keep the appropriate management informed, 
    the expertise necessary to solve the problem will eventually be applied 
    to the situation.  The customer has OUR commitment to solving the problem.  
    This commitment includes the local office, the CSC's, engineering, 
    sales and all of the resources necessary to get the problem resolved.
        
    Marty

Ah-Ha!.  .25, _I'm_ the guy that puts Marty into the "broken" situation.
     To further add to .33, or show you what (is supposed) to happen...

re: .33
    
    I wish there were more people like you that you could go out and
    resolve customer issues.  Maybe my LOR's are still open because
    the Problem Manager got TFSO'd and isn't around to close them
    out.    
    
    When I mentioned about people not knowing how to get into the UAF,
    or SYSGEN, I was talking about our customers.  When I tell the customer
    to modify something in SYSGEN (or more appropriatly MODPARAMS.DAT), and 
    they don't know what I'm talking about, I get VERY uneasy about stepping 
    the person threw the problem.  Usually, it's more than just a couple
    magic changes, and even then...
    
    I had a guy break his system BIGTIME using autogen.  When he got me
    back on the SPEAKER phone with his management present, I retold him
    what I told him to do.  When it became apparent, he made a typo
    (@sys$update:autogen SAVEPARAMS GETDATA)  this dude dropped me
    like a stone, because he knew he screwed up, and his bosses were
    hearing about it.
    
    When I LOR something, I am listed as a "resource". So even if "he" doesn't 
    know anything about what he is supposed to be doing, at least I can 
    convey my knowledge to him about what I want to have done, and be
    confident he "knows" what I'm talking about.  I can step a digital
    FE through about 50% of the LOR's I issue, even if they don't know the
    first thing about Pathworks, at least they are computer literate.  The 
    rest of it as you mentioned is serious stuff (i.e. It don't work).  
    Sometimes, you just can't work with the customer, and it's easier
    to speak with someone who knows what's going on.
    
    Sometimes I'm dealing with a customer who can't even type, and now I'm 
    going to tell them how to fix their pooled memory which has expanded.  
    No way.  I'd rather someone like Marty fix it than have the "system 
    administrator" dump the machine.  Either way, he'll be at their site.  
    I'd rather leave the machine running for him to fix, than have him have 
    to boot standalone, and recover from the damage the customer caused.
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike   

	Well, I wonder, with our new head of HR coming over from the states 
	for a year, if we will not be allowed to wear a t-shirt with owls and 
	hooters on, but the significance of the Clifton suspension bridge with
	Bristol written on it will pass her by?

	This could be quite an interesting year.  

	Heather   :-)

    Rathole alert.
    
    Back in the late 70's there was a billboard outside of Oakland, I
    think it was San Leandro, which was sponsered by the Milk Council.
    It was a picture of a Cow with a "healthy", non PC word probably,
    Dairy Maid beside her. The caption was, the great american milk
    machine. I thought at the time that it was a little off center but
    no one else seemed to notice or care. No uproar. Today, there would
    be marches on the Capital to have all such billboards replaced and
    the designers jailed. All this while the Country crumbles and children
    are being shot to death daily on our streets. Priorities I guess. I'm
    more concerned with our future than I am with being PC and I live a
    mile from the "border" of the capital of the PCers, Cambridge Ma.
    
    Now back to our program.
    
    Jim C.
      

re .35

Not only will your new HR person miss the bridge reference, I know I did
as did probably many here on the left side of the pond.

	Dave

re.-1

It wasn't really the bridge.  The name of the city is as suspect
as the name of the restaurant chain we've been discussing.

--

In fact, don't we have an office in Bristol? 

    RE: .30  by GUCCI::HERB 
    
    >I think I miss Nassar...
    
    I don't.
    

    I counted to 100 before I responded. It always takes me by suprise when
    someone in the Center, the "FIRST" contact to the customer, is so out
    of step with the way Digital works. I'm reffering to  .25. How can this
    person make a good impression on the customer, and really sell them on
    the way Digital will fix there problem, often at any cost, when that
    person has no understanding of how that works?  I don't know...
    
    	First, let me explain how the process works. All levels of
    management and sales tells the customer to call the center "FIRST".
    The field has been downsized to the point that basic service is now
    handled the next day. These engineers are very busy. DECservice is
    the only event we attempt to handle the same day. Hence, the message
    call the center "first". There was no call to the local tech. 
    The Center works the call and resolves about 60% of the problems. That
    figure is based on feedback from my customers. No Digital bean counter
    had a chance to "work" on this figure. If the center is unable to
    resolve the issue, the call is LOR'ed to the local office. We fix a
    full 50% of those calls. If you don't believe me, I invite you to come
    sit at my desk for a week. I'm a regional support engineer and most
    of the LOR's for this district cross my desk. I got my 54AD job code
    the hard way. I passed the engineering review process. If venture to
    say, most of the 54A* did not have to go through so rigurous of a test.
     On to engineering. If the LOR can't be fixed in the field, it is the
    local office's responsibility to send this on to engineering and
    "MANAGE" this call. Engineering has and will continue to put the burden
    of reproducing the problem on the field. The center does a good job of
    this but the local office does it's share as well. Engineering is very
    good about taking that responsibility if the field can not reproduce.
    True teamwork. 
    	The jist of this is, the center is not this all powerful, all
    technical tower of knowledge you make it out to be. "If we can't fix
    it, why then there is no chance a lowly engineer in the field even has
    a chance."    .... Wrong.... If you need them I can give you several
    examples, one only two day old  where the center LOR'ed
    calls to the field that should have taken only minutes to solve. Two
    days ago, the call was to help the customer break into VMS becouse
    he/she forgot his/her password.
    
    	In defence of the field engineer, I wouldn't make it a habit
    to belittle a job you don't know very well. If you would take the time
    to understand the job, I doubt you would want it. 
    
    	A tipical day in the life of a T5/240D field guy can go like this.
    
    	7:30 Customer called him at home. (this misguided sole actually
    cared enough about the customer to give them his home phone) It seems
    there building powerfailed during the night and the vitalink didn't
    come back up. None of the servers loaded and all of the PC's are
    offline to Pathworks. By 8:00 the engineer had walked the customer
    through the vitalink restart cycle, gotten the network back up to load
    the servers and identified the failing PC's for DESKTOP service to work
    on today. No call LOGGED.
    
    	8:30 off to his first call. TA90 with a jammed tape. Nothing to
    tough if you know how to open this baby up.
    
    	10:00 LPS40 smearing print. 2 hours latter, purring along. Bad
    DRUM.
    
    	13:00 9210 console hung. Same problem as before. next step in
    action plan. Install fiber optic links and reset console. contact
    support (me).
    
    	16:30 Pathworks net down at major blood lab. Critical problem.
    20:00 problem resolved. Customer goof up. 
    
    	Home by 8:30
    If you think this is made up, call me. I'll let you talk to the man
    that does this. He's had 1 weekend off in 3 months. I know, he's my
    fishing budy.
    
    It's very easy to criticize someone that does not have the indepth
    knowledge you have gained over a few years of intense, indepth work.
    These guys/gals don't have the chance. PDP11/40 this morning, AlphaAXP
    this afternoon. If it says "DIGITAL", or even hooks to a dec box
    sometimes, thats all it takes and these guys are expected to add value.
    No excuses. The rely on the center and support to do that. They would
    be lost with out ether.
    
    	I guess my point is, your wrong. These people are in the meat
    grinder and are expected to smile. Their ranks have went from
    25 call takers to 12 while the contract base has only droped 13% in our
    area. I've seen the job and it scares me. It's not even close to the
    job I left just 5 years ago to pursue a support job.
    	Everyone feels that there job is the toughest, meanest, most
    indispensable job around. Don't you think there is the slightest chance
    that there could be "TWO" of those jobs in this company.
    
    
    jim

	In Philly, "THE HOOTERS" is a band.  

	You can see them on MTV from time to time.

>It wasn't really the bridge.  The name of the city is as suspect
>as the name of the restaurant chain we've been discussing.

	The Clifton suspension bridge is in Bristol

	I've seen T-shirts with the towers and suspension cables strategically
	placed.

	With 		BRISTOLS
			bridge

	written underneath, the bridge being in very small letters


   You, we have an office near Bristol, it's on the edge, near the motorway.


	Heather

    "Let he/she who is without sin, cast the first stone"
    
    .25....We need each other in this day and age. I have worked at the
    center and in the field for 20+ years. I agree with .40!!!
    
    COME OUT OF YOUR IVORY CASTLE..."INTO THE FIELD"...AND GET A REAL TASTE
    OF LIFE IN THE TRENCHES!!!!.
    
    P.S. If you do accept the challenge of the "FIELD", you must remain
    	 flexable and open-minded at all times....24 x 7.
    
    	This note will self-destruct (as we will) unless we change.

re .40

I couldn't agree more.  Most of the folks I support are expected to know
OpenVMS, ULTRIX, DEC OSF/1, DOS, Windows, etc, PATHWORKS, NETWARE, from
PC to large clusters and all the associated boxes, interfaces and hardware. 

They know most of the software at a user interface level and at least SOME 
system management, can copy and install and test patches, etc.  They are 
Multivendor Customer Services engineers supporting hundreds of Digital and 
other vendor's products.

Many these people have advanced degrees and most can get a job in a
minute at many of the customer sites they service/support.  Their job codes
range from entry level through consultant. They are expected to be polished
professionals in front of customers at all times while servicing equipment
they may have never seen.

One remote office I know of has four engineers.  Their customers have just
about every product and operating system Digital has ever sold.  Just how
much expertise do you expect an office of that size to have?!  They do an
excellent job, get great customer surveys and know a lot about almost
everything we sell.  They also do an excellent job of selling customers
on our new products and assisting salespersons with the local accounts.

Thanks for the opportunity to share their successes.

-marty

                                   
    Perhaps my perspective is somewhat tainted since most of the LORs I've
    been involved with concerned Ultrix and VAX System V.  Digital is full
    of GREAT VMS consultants, but the story is *VERY* different in UNIX
    land.  
    
    Please note that I'm not critisizing anyone personally for what I still
    consider a "broken" LOR *Procedure*.  Although my experience with
    Digital has only been 3.5 yrs. long, *ALL* that time has been spent in
    the field.  I've worked for competitors and have seen their procedures
    too.  I understand that the CSC is the *FIRST* place a customer
    *SHOULD* call, but the reality is that they often call me and my
    colleagues first because they know us personally.  Some customers have
    good personal relationships with folks in the CSC too, those fortunate
    enough to be dealing with products that are serviced well by the LOR
    procedure have no complaints.  

    Is it offensive to add a reply here?

    re .40,.44
    
    Thank you! I work in a remote office. We do hardware, software, PDP's ,
    VAX's, PC's, networks and any other piece of "stuff" somebody decided
    to put on contract. Our parts stock has been cut to nothing. We can not
    get the correct or good part about 80% of the time from desktop
    logistics on the first try. We have no admin help and customer
    contracts are a disaster. There has been little training for years.
    The copy machine is gone. Our manager's hands are tied. (he is a good 
    manager by the way) We are responsible for any needs or concerns our
    customers have and no power to make it happen. 
    
     Survey scores somewhere around 94 for this year. We do a great job
    but are all burned out! Our customers are our friends and neighbors.
    Personally I'm tired of tap dancing for all the corporate B.S.
    If anyone wants to "get in touch" and that includes Mr. Palmer,
    they are welcome to follow us around for a few days.
    
     LOR's ?? Send 'em to us we'll take care of it.
    
    Reis Ritz
    240D
        

    Okay...Here's my note.
    
    			Regards,
    			Rick

    re: Hooters
    
    We should also pull aside employees who wear Winnebago Tshirts,
    because, after all, it's slang for female breasts.
    
    What a bunch of oversensitive children some adults have become.
    
    Someday, I hope, we'll be able to see this, fix it, and then look back
    on the 90s and laugh about how silly the whole PC movement was.

    re .-1
    
    Hmm. Does this mean that if I can get some number of employees
    to agree that XXXX is a slang word for something offensive, then
    everyone else automatically is banned from saying XXXX?
    
    Sounds like a great game tp play!  How do we determine the winner?
    
    dave
    
    P.S.  <hooter> ::= <nose> | <noise-making-device>
    	  as far as I'm concerned
    
                                              

    Wow things are so bad I bet the local moonshiners are selling a lot of
    JUGS these days.  In order to stay aBREAST of the problem, I propose we
    give up the JUGS and switch to MELONS.  If my MAMMARY is correct the
    stress of work contributes to an atmosphere where the BOOBS come out of
    the woodwork and try to draw us to their overly sensitive BOSOM.
    
    I do not wish to be stuck in the CLEAVAGE between debating what is 
    deemed PC and what is not.
    
    If it wasn't so sad the situation would be a real HOOT(er).
    
    Respectfully,
    
    Marv
    
    
      
    

I play on a Volleyball league on Sunday - there is a team in the 
league name Hooters, and ALL members of the team (men and women, and 
some of their kids sitting on the sidelines) wear the standard issue
Hooters t-shirt as their team shirt. I really get tired of the
oversensitive, insecure attitudes that try to dictate what is or isn't
acceptable for someone else to wear... I didn't like it 25 years ago
when my high school tried to impose a dress code (it was unacceptable
to not have your shirt tails tucked in), and I don't like it now..... 

IMHO, until something directly affects a person, rarely do they feel anybody
should get upset at what they say....until that person or someone they love, 
is affected by it.  It is amazing to see how insensitive some people can be in
here.  I have received quite a few messages off-line, stating they appreciate
me taking a stand and taking the heat for what I've said.  And what I really
appreciate knowing is there's alot of sensitive men at Digital that contacted
me off-line.  Thank you!

Judy

    Judy,
    
      This "issue" is not about being sensitive or, by implication,
    insensitive.  The "issue" is about projecting morality, having a sense
    of humor (or not), whether we occupy a 'live and let live' world (or
    not) and whether we believe in freedom of expression.
    
      If a person is offended by something I say, do or wear but they are
    not injured, then feel free to take offense but don't even think about
    inhibiting my right to self-expression.  No one is asking for 
    endorsement or approval.  We merely demand that we be free to say, do
    or wear whatever we wish without having to worry about morality
    cops or overly-sensitive folks complaining whenever their thin skin
    gets rubbed the wrong way.
    
      In .55 you said, "IMHO, until something directly affects a
    person...".  That statement demonstrates my point in that you may have
    been affected but you surely were not injured nor were you prevented
    from enjoying your rights.  By the way, an individual's rights do not 
    ensure that we be free from being offended.  To take offense or not is 
    a personal choice we all make.
    
      Saying stuff like "Some people will never get it..." may be accurate even
    though it smacks of arrogance and self-righteousness.  If you are
    referring to me then I'm glad I don't get it, whatever "IT" is.  I
    don't want IT.  I want my rights!
    
      BTW, expression like "Get a life" are just as trivial as "Just don't
    get it".  
    
      Marv_who_is_a_sensitive_guy
    
                                                                 

I am one of those that (tries to) allways call(s) us Digital. Yet this
discussion reminds me of what a customer (then prospect) informally said to
me about or company name.

But first, you should know that this person works for a compagny
that does trademark searching and watching as its core business. That is, if
you want to use a new trademark they will tell you if it would infringe an
existing one, or if you have a trademark they will tell you of those being
deposited may infringe your rights so that you could stop it, or litegate
or whatever. (Yes, they are the European partners of Thompson & Thompson).

You should also know that the person talking to me is the one in charge of 
infrigement business rules definition (when to declare a hit and when not to).
You should further know that they are (by far) the European market leader, so
I guess you could expect him to know what he's talking about.

Well this guy said to me (about a year ago):

"There is nothing unique about Digital as a name. I guess Digital Equipement
Corperation is OK for trademarking laws, but it's not very catchy, is it.
But DEC... Yep there you got a good one there. I don't understand why you
don't work that more."

So I repeat/expand on .52: perhaps DEC is, for a lot of reasons, not a good
choise to use as company name, but Digital still is a poor choise for a new
brand image. 

    .56 so distorts and so poorly argues its case that I had to rejoin
    this thread.

    The "issue" isn't being sensitive or insensitive, or projecting
    morality, or having a sense of humor, or free expression.  These are
    not operational words in policy or law.  The operational words are
    offense and sexual harassment.

    There is no first amendment right in the workplace.  An employer can
    establish policies that constrain free expression, and employees can
    either quit or hire lawyers to demonstrate to a court some injury to
    them on the basis of that restriction.

    We are not talking "thought police" here, we are talking "T-Shirt
    police" and I believe the distinction is important:

    To tie it to the real case at hand, the restaurant in question has been
    described as a "Li'l Abner-style Playboy Club with Daisy Mae bunnies"
    or "breastaurants" in Forbes magazine, indeed, the uniforms were
    described as "orange micro gym shorts teensy tank tops".

    Perhaps, it's the sexual ambiguity or double-entendre of having a small
    dot inside the "O" of "Hooter" to appear to be a nipple or the pupil of
    an owl's eye, or perhaps it's their slogan "more than a mouthful" that
    leads one to believe that's they are merchandising more than food.

    These women earn an average salary of $2.06 compared to $5.00 at
    McDonalds, but because they can earn tips of $150 a night, some women
    prefer to work there.

    The act of wearing the T-Shirt of this breastaurant is good publicity
    for the restaurant, but it also can been seen as a walking endorsement
    for the status of the women servers there.

    I think one is free to think whatever they want, however when you make
    your body an billboard for a issue of controversy over sexual
    exploitation of women as some allege, then expect that some people
    regard this as your projection of the "Hooter's" workplace into the
    "Digital" workplace.
                        

    One of the few weapons that work against racist or dirty jokes, is to
    speak up and say, "No, it's not alright with me." 
    
    To say that those who "call you" on your faux pas are thin-skinned is
    to duck responsibility for your rudeness. 
    
    First amendment rights do protect the ill-mannered, crass and boorish,
    but who wants to be ill-mannered, crass and boorish? Do you also eat
    your mashed potatoes with your fingers?
    
    :-)
    
    	--Catherine--*
        
    

    
    How about the campaign that Senator Ben Whitehorse Campbell (from
    Colorado), is driving?  The one where he is trying to get "Redskins"
    removed from the Washington Redskins football team.
    
    Some people feel a name is everything.
                    

"Hooters" is brand recognition - the management/marketing of that resturant
chain chose a catchy name that gets their 'product' noticed.

"Digital" is also a brand, but not nearly as well reconized by the public,

...oops - wrong note!

A couple of points... in the past week or so I skimmed a huge stack of
trade rags. We're referred to as DEC in almost all of them.

About 15 years ago the Sambo's nationwide restaurant chain changed their
name (I don't even remember the new name). They lasted about a year and
went belly-up. Some financial people I know state flatly that it was due
to the name - and brand recognition - issue. 

    SAMBO'S changed to SAM'S then died, and rightly so, in my opinion!

    Digital should not have the same problem.. Not a good comparison!
    
    Digital just needs to get onto network TV.... IBM's new commercials
    are looking pretty good.... Even attempts to convense the public that
    IBM is the leader in "the total network solution"....
    
    We all know who really is the leader, but the public doesn't.
    
    Later!
    

re .58

Hey, I agree with Pat Sweeney - that must be twice in one year.  :-)

--

>   The act of wearing the T-Shirt of this breastaurant is good publicity
>   for the restaurant, but it also can been seen as a walking endorsement
  
I'm offended by all advertising T-shirts!  Why would someone actually
pay money to advertise someone else's business, anyway?

    re: .58 SDSVAX::SWEENEY
    
    >  we are talking "T-Shirt police"
    Relax Pat, problem solved.  I don't think the T-shirt police will
    have a problem with a Davey Allison Texaco shirt.  Hope the folks
    who fill up with Unical will understand.
    
    Mike

    i once bought a tee-shirt when i was in California in 1982, i made a mistake
    but not looking to see what is written on it, when i went home
    i folded it over and out and was choked to see what is written on it !, i 
    still to this day dont have the courage to wear it outside my
    apartment, too bad it looks nice on me too :(

    what is the motto of all of this? it is to make sure the advertisement of 
    the tee-shirt we buy is something we agree with and can wear it before 
    you go ahead and buy it nilly willy.

    \nasser

	The SAMBO's analogy is a very poor one. SAMBO's changed their name
	due to negative publicity over the supposedly racist connotation of
	the name due to its association with a character "Little Black
	Sambo" from early TV or movies (I forget which).

	The name actually had no connection with the character. Rather, it
	was a play on the name of the restaurant's founder. In any event the
	negative publicity undoubtedly contributed to the chain's demise.

	Roy

re: .67

>	The name actually had no connection with the character. Rather, it
>	was a play on the name of the restaurant's founder. In any event the
>	negative publicity undoubtedly contributed to the chain's demise.

Perhaps the name originally had no connection to the character, but Sambo's
certainly sported a jungle motif.

    _Little Black Sambo_ was originally a children's book--one of my
    favorites.  It's about a little boy (the fact that he was black had no
    relevance, as I remember) who outsmarted some tigers into chasing
    themselves around a tree until they turned to butter.  The boy then
    took the butter home to his mother who used it to make pancakes.  
    
    It's been forty-plus years.  Did I get the story correct?  
    
    I always thought the little boy was pretty smart and never understood
    why the big fuss over the PC-ness of the restaurant chain.
    
    Chet
    
    P.S.  Now back to the discussion of Digital's situation.

And I remember being in a Sambo's that had 'the legend of the little black sambo;
story on the place mats...

JD

Chet -

I don't think the suit had anything to do with PC-ness.  I thought it also
involved discrimination about serving African-Americans and that.  

Anyway, it has nothing to do with DIgital, and the food was horrible...

JD

    
    RE: .65
    
    Not to change the subject, But, Davy Allison was just killed in 
    a hellicopter crash at Teladaga (sp?) race track.  
    
    

    
    If you don't like hooters, how about Mother Fud Ruckers, another
    "fast food" chain.
    
    I guess the name is Fud Ruckers, but they call their mustard Mother
    Fud Ruckers Mustard.....say that fast 10 times.
    

> Anyway, it has nothing to do with DIgital, and the food was horrible...
    
    Sambo's restaurants HQ (Santa Barbara, CA) was a good DEC customer for
    the longest time.
    
      John

    re: .72
    
    no, he was in the crash YESTERDAY he died at 7:00 am today

    Boy, several ratholes at once!
    
    /Charlotte

     What WAS the subject, and has this topic ever addressed it?

                                  Greg

re last
This topic is at least as focused as the New Digital.

We will do any rathole the customer wants.  We can network ratholes, we can 
do simultaneous ratholes, we can simulate ratholes, and boy can we do 
ratholes in software.  


:)   :)


Matt

    re .60
    
    >>> ... Senator Ben Whitehorse Campbell ...
    >>> Some people think a name is everything.
    
     His name is Ben Nighthorse Campbell.
    
    

     Well, that's a horse of a different color. 

>     What WAS the subject, and has this topic ever addressed it?

Digital was the subject and this note has addressed it VERY clearly!



The sad thing is that this note is suppose to be about the new Digital
unfortunately it VERY CLEARLY sums up the current state of the company!

    re: .72 SPECXN::BLEY
    
    > Not to change the subject, But, Davy Allison was just killed in
    > a hellicopter crash at Teladaga (sp?) race track.
    
    This whole stinking string was restarted because I was babbling about 
    someone thinking my Hooters T-shirt was "sexist".  To me, 
    Hooters = Alan Kulwicki (who was killed 4/1).  Since Hooters is
    "sexist", and I live "down the street" from Bill Elliott (no Dale
    Earnhardt shirts allowed) I figured a Davey Allison shirt wouldn't
    be too offensive.
    
    When Alan Kulwicki died and Hooters pulled it's sponsorship, Digital
    should have jumped all over that deal.  But I've beaten that dead
    horse elsewhere in here to no avail.  You want a "branding" campaign?
    Apparently Joe Average is not who we're after.  Too bad.  Look at the
    corparations that feel that type of racing is valuable.  Digital
    preferes to place a tiny decal on a car THAT FAILED TO MAKE THE INDY
    500.  Ho ho.  Why not race in front of hundreds of millions of people
    30 times a year with a big huge maroon "DIGITAL" down the side of
    a Winston Cup car?  Why not get in while it's still affordable?
    (especially by buying/sponsoring the team that won the Winston Cup 
    Championship last year.  Talk about missing an opportunity)  Oh well...
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike
    who'll be at Talladega 2 weeks from now with a big "28" on my window,
    and then in Darlington, and Atlanta and....