Conference 7.286::digital

    one can only hope

    who bought it - wang?

    
    Who bought it - KO?

    If it has been sold, ie there has been a real estate closing, it will
    be a public record.  Just ask the Registrar of Deeds.  I doubt if this
    could have happened without at least one newspaper reporter's picking
    up the story.
    
    If anything less, such as contracts' being signed, has happened, I'd
    think it would be in some newspaper by now.
    
    
                                     Kurt

	If the rumours were true, it would provide a good opportunity
	to catch up with reality and move corporate headquarters to
	Europe, where the action is.

	As I never tire of pointing out - because experience shows you
	have to bang the table for years before people learn - Digital
	is now doing significantly more business in Europe, and with a
	higher rate of growth. This is all the more significant because
	Digital has far more resources on the ground in the States, as
	well as the inestimable benefit of more direct access to
	corporate resources.

	So the corporate headquarters should move to be at the centre
	of things. Germany, France, or why not Britain? (Wave the flag).

	Another advantage would be that making the move would force us
	to separate the necessary from the traditional accretions of years.
	Just like moving house. "Do we take this?" "No way! We haven't
	used it for years..."

	/Tom

>	So the corporate headquarters should move to be at the centre
>	of things. Germany, France, or why not Britain? (Wave the flag).

Naah... Not Britain; it's the suburbs of Europe, not really even
connected (and given that so many Brits refer to Europe as being
somewhere other side the Channel it is even more reason not to ;-)

Instead I'd suggest Finland; it is definitely in Europe, and being
in the northern parts, if it is virtually on top of everything. 
(Now, I bet someone from Norway will come and say that Norway is really 
the top-most contry in Europe, since they have a little piece of land 
north of Finland, but that doesn't count since only reindeer live there ;-)

...petri

    A new ad campiagn:  "Finland, gateway to the Former Soviet Union"

    
    Re: a couple back,
    
    Part of the reason Europe has done so well vs. the US over the
    past 4 years is the economy in the US has been on a long, slow
    slide (while there was optimism in Europe over EC 92).  
    Another reason is that the wave of downsizing computers
    hit here before it hit Europe (which means mini and mainframe
    vendors' US businesses took it on the chin here first).
    
    The US economy (IMHO) leads the world into recessions, and it
    leads the world out of recessions.  4thQ (Oct-Dec) of last year,
    US GDP growth was ~4.7% (~2.2% for the entire year).  We're
    probably recovering here before Europe does.  I suspect that if
    our foray into PCs is successful, and if we continue to grow
    networking businesses, Digital US will outperform Europe in the
    next two years.  Certainly, with US labor laws, it's a lot easier
    to dump people here than it is in Europe, so US cost structure
    will be reduced here first as well. (Not that I find that particularly
    heartening.)
    
    Glenn
    

    RE: .5
    
    	Nice try, but from what I read and haer in the news...Europe is
    facing a down turn in business.  Germany, for example, is headed
    towards a recession.  
    
    	I will say this, I agree with moving the HQ out of New England. 
    This would give the powers to be a much needed new perspective on
    business.  Too often I hear that since 65% of the product is sold
    within New England, then that is where Manufacturing, HQ, etc., etc. 
    should be.  A half empty way of looking at the world.  I argue that
    since 65% of our products are sold within New England, then that is all
    the more reason for us to jump in a wagon and move West and South. 
    Just think about all the opportunity that is out there!!!  (Just keep
    in mind one thing, we like Arizona just the way it is, so you can drive
    through, even take a few pictures, but don't turn off the engine.)
    
    @@
     >
    \_/
    

    I have but one thing to say about moving to Europe, VAT.  Taxes are too
    damn high in Europe for a multibillion dollar company to want to move
    there.  Its one thing to start there and have roots, but it makes no
    sense to move there.  Mass tax on corporate income is only about 6%.  
    
    	Dave

    New rumor...
    
    Mill has been sold, headquarters moving to Dahlgren, VA.....
    
    Steve (looking for a shorter drive to work)

How about emulating a better model.  ABB has practically no headquarters.  
They have only 350 people with corporate functions, everybody else works 
for a division.  The divisions are measured on profit, and the low 
performing divisions are "cleaned up."  Dump the Mill, and move the 
important 300 people to Manila or some other inexpensive gateway to the far 
East.

The Mill is an anchronism of DEC bloated bureacracy.  Over large, 
disconnected, unsafe in an emergency, in a ethnocentric geography.  (Boston 
likes to think of itself as "the Hub")  

Clean out Valbonne, keep the necessary 30 or 50 fifty people and distribute 
the rest to the subsidiaries or divisions.

Matt

	re .9:

>        Nice try, but from what I read and hear in the news...Europe is
>    facing a down turn in business.  Germany, for example, is headed
>    towards a recession.  

	Not relevant. Recessions and booms look like ripples on top
	of the overall long term trend. It makes sense, as Europe is
	intrinsically a bigger market than the USA. Many more people,
	and getting to be at least as rich.

>    Too often I hear that since 65% of the product is sold
>    within New England, then that is where Manufacturing, HQ, etc., etc. 
>    should be.  A half empty way of looking at the world.  I argue that
>    since 65% of our products are sold within New England, then that is all
>    the more reason for us to jump in a wagon and move West and South. 

	But 65% of the product is not sold within New England. At the risk
	of becoming really sickeningly tedious, the reason I keep on and
	on and on about this subject is that experience shows it takes
	years of tub-thumping to change people's mind-sets.

	In fact, going on FY93 figures, the corporate report shows about
	65% coming from NON-US revenues. In other words, the whole USA is
	down to a shade more than one-third of revenues. New England must
	clearly be some (probably quite small) fraction of 35%. At a wild
	guess, maybe 10%? That would be very similar to the UK, by the
	way.

	/Tom

    
    But Tom, non-US does not mean Europe.  PLease name a country where we
    do more business than the US.
    
    
    Mike
    

	re .14:

>	PLease name a country where we do more business than the US.

	Obviously I can't. Nor is there likely to be one in the foreseeable
	future.

	However in the past USA has been an "Area", and so has Europe.
	GIA or "General International Area" (i.e. the rest of the world)
	was the third area.

	Europe is about the same area as the USA (smaller without Russia,
	much bigger with) so it is a comparable entity. Comparing those
	two, we find that Europe does more revenue today, and its revenue
	is growing faster than the USA. This has been the direction of the
	trend for the past several years.

	The point of .13 was to correct the statement that New England did
	65% of the revenue (which was probably not meant seriously in any
	case).

	My previous reply was meant to suggest that we might examine the
	problem of where to site the corporate headquarters based on
	objective business reasons, not tradition, sentiment or prejudice.

	Anywhere in central Europe would place headquarters closer to the
	weighted "centre of gravity" of our revenue than its present
	location. Of course, the other benefit would be that we would find
	large bureaucracies which could be dispensed with.

	/Tom

    
    So let me get this straight.  Wherever the geography of a corporations 
    majority of business is, they should relocate the headquarters to that
    location?  
    
    
    
    Mike 

Let's see.  We do 100% of our business on the planet Earth....Let's move our
HQ there :-)

Bob

    
>    So let me get this straight.  Wherever the geography of a corporations 
>    majority of business is, they should relocate the headquarters to that
>    location?  
 
	It usually makes sense in relation to taxes, exchange rates, government
	grants, export licencing.............

	Heather

    
    And if the gography changes every 4-5 years?

    I strongly agree that we need to move the Corp. HQ.  Then tear down the
    building, along with most of the other relics...this will help
    stimulate the economy and at the same time clean up and brighten the
    country side.
    	
    This is an American company, thus the HQ must stay in the USA.  This
    will ensure American jobs, that profit stays in the USA, any spending
    required to run a HQ goes to USA local businesses, etc.  We have made 
    too many transfers of jobs out of the USA already.  It's time to keep
    US jobs in the US and bring back some of the ones that we tossed away.
    
    I will be interested to see if anyone from overseas tries to argue
    against this point.  Because, over the past years the US supported most
    of the world economies by purchasing overseas at a cost to the USA both
    in dollars and jobs, yet the US did not ask their HQ's to move here even
    when the US was their major consumer.  Now, all of a sudden, a US company
    is selling more product overseas than in the US and people overseas
    want the HQ of an American company to move out of the USA.  Give me a
    break!!!
    
    No offense intended, just sticking up for my country and the land I
    love.  By the way, I even get extreme about this stuff at a state
    level.  I, unfortunately, live in the Washington, D.C. area (for the
    time being), but I'm from Phoenix, Arizona.  So, I buy products that
    are made by Arizona companies first, other Western states second, other
    US third and elsewhere last.  I also support Ross Perot.
    
    I'd guess this will spark a comment or two.
    
    Scott

     ...and if the majority of the tourists in England are Americans, then
they should move Parliament to Little Rock, Arkansas.

                                     Greg

 >I will be interested to see if anyone from overseas tries to argue
 >against this point.

  Hardly worth wasting the bits...

 >Because, over the past years the US supported most
 >of the world economies by purchasing overseas at a cost to the USA both
 >in dollars and jobs, yet the US did not ask their HQ's to move here even
 >when the US was their major consumer. 

  Aha.  I understand!  I used to think that all those American consumers
  were buying Japanese VCRs, cars, etc., etc., simply because they
  wanted better products.  I hadn't realised that they were really
  taking part in some grand altruistic scheme to help out the rest
  of the world!

  >and at the same time clean up and brighten the
  >country side.

  Uh, I know Maynard isn't exactly a metropolis, but it's far
  from being "countryside".   Besides which, the mill is far more
  attractive than any place that DEC's built in the last decade! 

  >Besides which, the mill is far more
  >attractive than any place that DEC's built in the last decade! 

    i could not agree more with Dave on this, even though i had not had
    the pleasure of working in the mill, but when i first moved to 
    lovely masmssususuhsstes from the west cost 3.5 years ago , the first 
    thing i did when i arrived is rented a car and immediately went asking 
    where the mill is! i kept driving around and getting lost many times but 
    finally i got to the mill, and saw the famous clock tower too that i read
    so much about from a far, the nice security guard let me in the gate and 
    i drove around the parking lot 3 times and then had to go home.

    may be one day i get lucky and will work in the mill. it is a very historic
    place and we should not sell it to anyone too.

    \nasser

    We can't tear down the Mill.  What about the endangered Mill Spiders and
    Mill Centipedes!  (These critters are usually about late at night and
    are a sight to behold.  I wonder if they bite?)  They've been in the
    Mill so long that they are, as the saying goes for software, 
    			"no longer bugs -- they are now features!"  :)
    
    Steve

    I don't think we can tear down the mill.  I believe its on one of those
    historic place registers.  That will make it hard to sell as well
    because remodelling would have to be approved by the registration
    people.
    
    	Dave

    > ...approved by the registration people.   YUK, move government red
    tape!  This area thrives on Govt. red tape.  I've just read where there
    are about 40,000 people working for the Washington, D.C. government...
    it is taking a city of people to manage (miss-manage) a city of only
    600,000 people.  I'm sorry, but Govt. "fat" and redundancies drive me
    nuts.
    
    	As for all the old buildings out here.  I suggest this (which I'm
    sure will go over real big with the typical Eastern native):  Save a
    few old, historic buildings -- the top 5 history makers in each major
    city.  Take pictures of the rest and then turn them over to a
    construction crew...tear it down and put up a nice, new, attractive
    building or better yet restore the land back to a natural, raw state.
    Just think of the number of jobs that will be created...Photographers,
    Construction, Manufacturing of construction supplies, etc.
    
    	Next, turn the historic buildings still standing into museums to
    house the pictures of the buildings that have been leveled.  
    
    	I know this is a bit radical for alot of you, but seriously folks
    Boston, D.C., Phily, etc. are some gloomy looking towns.  They need
    some life and brightness.
    
    Just stirring the coals in the fire,
             
    Scott

    Most business relocate as their customers move. Take retailers moving
    from city centres. Its common and quite normal. The average person
    moves quite often in their lifetime so maybe this should apply to
    companies too.
    
    I wonder if Europe is performing better because Head Quarters is so far
    away. Maybe it would be better left that way. Not sure I want them
    anywhere near me. Its hard enough now without all the "overheads"
    closer.
    
    The world is changing. Just as our industry has changed. Europe has
    huge untapped markets opening up and offers a real chance for great
    companies to grow.   

    At the rate the Asabet's rising we may not have to tear it down.
    

re: .26

>    	As for all the old buildings out here.  I suggest this (which I'm
>    sure will go over real big with the typical Eastern native):  Save a
>    few old, historic buildings -- the top 5 history makers in each major
>    city.  Take pictures of the rest and then turn them over to a
>    construction crew...tear it down and put up a nice, new, attractive
>    building or better yet restore the land back to a natural, raw state.
>    Just think of the number of jobs that will be created...Photographers,
>    Construction, Manufacturing of construction supplies, etc.
>    
>    	Next, turn the historic buildings still standing into museums to
>    house the pictures of the buildings that have been leveled.  
>    
>    	I know this is a bit radical for alot of you, but seriously folks
>    Boston, D.C., Phily, etc. are some gloomy looking towns.  They need
>    some life and brightness.
    
Yuck!  You must actually *like* the typical industrial park wasteland
where too many of us have to work!  Give me an old building with character
over a modern sterile (and boring) one any day!  If you are a typical
Washingtonian, then I hope not too many of you come up the parkway to
Baltimore!

Actually, Baltimore went through that dangerous architectural stage when
modern was considered good and old was considered bad.  A lot of wonderful
old buildings that could never be built today (it would cost too much) were
lost.  Fortunately, in recent years architects and developers (and I guess
the population in general, or the architects and developers wouldn't do it)
seem to be starting to appreciate the irreplaceable beauty of many of the
old buildings.  Even when modern buildings are built, there is a tendency
to try to make them fit in with their older surroundings.

-end of rathole-

-Hal

    .29

    i think this is a good point. most people really dont like to work in
    big buildings anyway, i think one or 2 story level buildings are
    the best, it gives you the feeling of belonging and being there, not
    just a number on some paper like you feel in huge big 500 story level
    building like they have in NY and Chicago.

    We are all human and we need to be treated like humans not robots to 
    be shoved around in narrow and dark corridors and into corners and little 
    cubes in a big and cold buildings with number tags over us to tell us who 
    we are and where we sits and what we do!.

    that is why people are moving back away and into the old and simple
    ways of doing things, this includes the place of work too, plus we
    need more plants in our offices, i dont know how many times i said
    this and no one does anything about, green is shown to help the spirit 
    and improves work productivity and puts you in touch with earth and
    nature and this all relates to this issues we are discussing as it
    relates to the old vs new methodology, and the MILL is such a
    manifestations of this deep rooted problem we see every where, how
    to balance progress with keeping the human touch alive and well
    between all of us and the place of work is very important in that
    regards .

    i dont know why i keep saying this, no one will listen to me any ways.

    thank you,
    \nasser

    	
    
>    I will be interested to see if anyone from overseas tries to argue
>    against this point.  Because, over the past years the US supported most
>    of the world economies by purchasing overseas at a cost to the USA both
>    in dollars and jobs, yet the US did not ask their HQ's to move here even
>    when the US was their major consumer.  Now, all of a sudden, a US company
>    is selling more product overseas than in the US and people overseas
>    want the HQ of an American company to move out of the USA.  Give me a
>    break!!!
 
	Firstly, having the HQ in America severley restricts our markets 
	because of the export compliance regulations. This legislation just
	doesn't keep up-to-date with the world situation, and is causing us
	to have to stand back and watch non-US computer companies grab emerging
	markets.
   	It is loosing us markets, money, and jobs.
	
	Also, Digital has been selling more overseas than in the US for many 
	years, it is not "all of a sudden".
	If we can eventually get some of the market share back from our 
	compettitors when the US export compliance gets more than 3 years
	behind-the-times, then the percentage will increase.

	Also, your knowledge of US trade restrictions seem a little lax.	

>    No offense intended, just sticking up for my country and the land I
>    love.  By the way, I even get extreme about this stuff at a state
>    level. 

	I agree with you it is extreme, tunnel vision could cause you to cut
	your nose off to spite your face.

	Heather 

    I'm not sure that moving the Corporate HQ out of the U.S. would
    necessarily exempt us from (U.S.) Export Compliance, Heather. I'm not a
    lawyer, so I don't know what the legal definition of "American
    technology" is (it obviously doesn't depend on where the technology is
    developed, since Export Licensing applies to stuff we develop outside
    the U.S.). Is it where the (majority of) the capital is held? Or where
    the company is incorporated (in which case, what about subsidiaries?)
    Or what?
    
    Anyone know (as opposed to random guesses!)?
    
    D.

>    I'm not sure that moving the Corporate HQ out of the U.S. would
>    necessarily exempt us from (U.S.) Export Compliance, Heather. I'm not a
>    lawyer, so I don't know what the legal definition of "American
>    technology" is (it obviously doesn't depend on where the technology is
>    developed, since Export Licensing applies to stuff we develop outside
>    the U.S.). Is it where the (majority of) the capital is held? Or where
>    the company is incorporated (in which case, what about subsidiaries?)
>    Or what?
 

	The company is American, if it breaks US compliance, then it doesn't
	get export licences to ship kit.
	It doesn't matter where the kit/software is built or shipped from.

	Heather

	1) When I hear rumors of the mill being sold, the first question
	becomes: To who? There are plenty of more modern business sites
	in the area that are vacant. Plenty of vacant mill space, if
	that is really what is wanted. Two thirds of the Wang towers.
	Who'd want the mill enough to pay us enough for the headache of 
	moving?

	2) Speaking of the Wang towers, if we really wanted to move from the 
	mill, why not move to the Wang towers. We could probably get it pretty
	close to even up for one of the sites we are closing - Wang would get
	facilities more suited to their new size, and eliminate the costs
	associated with the towers. After all, the prospects of any other
	buyers for a facility of that size in that location are pretty small.
	We'd get a modern facility... But then, we'd still be stuck with
	the mill,. because who would want to buy it, even empty?

	3) re .26

	>and put up a nice, new, attractive building 

	Isn't that an oxymoron?

				Tom_K

    RE: .26
    
    Bad idea....but, you knew that.
    
    Marc H.

    
    Heather, how many is many years?  4 or 5?  The previous 30, the US was
    at the top.  Also, as far as gov't compliance, if we go selling willy
    nilly, you might as well write off the GSA schedule (our second largest
    customer), not a very wise move.
    
    
    
    Mike

    
>    Heather, how many is many years?  4 or 5?  The previous 30, the US was
>    at the top.  Also, as far as gov't compliance, if we go selling willy
>    nilly, you might as well write off the GSA schedule (our second largest
>    customer), not a very wise move.
 
	Yup, about that, definately not "all of a sudden".

	I did not say to go selling "willy nilly", I said it would be better if
	the export compliance moved with the times a bit more.

	It is a system designed for slow movement and different times.

	Heather

    RE: .34  by TOMK::KRUPINSKI 
    
	>1) When I hear rumors of the mill being sold, the first question
	>becomes: To who? There are plenty of more modern business sites
    
    Maybe it won't be sold.  That doesn't preclude our walking away from
    it.  If the Wang towers can be abandoned, so can the mill.
    
    How many mothballs do you think it will take, given that it was once a
    woolen mill?
    

>    Maybe it won't be sold.  That doesn't preclude our walking away from
>    it.  If the Wang towers can be abandoned, so can the mill.
    
	Maybe abandoned in that there will be nothing there. But 
	unless ownership is transferred, Digital would still be responsible
	for the property (taxes, liability, etc)...

				Tom_K

re .27:

>    Most business relocate as their customers move. Take retailers moving
>    from city centres. Its common and quite normal.

Retail stores obviously have to be near their customers.  Their headquarters
don't -- I doubt if very many of Walmart's millions of customers have the
foggiest idea where they are headquartered or even care.  For non-retailers
like DEC, the idea of putting HQ near the customer is even less compelling.

re Note 2429.34 by TOMK::KRUPINSKI:

> 	1) When I hear rumors of the mill being sold, the first question
> 	becomes: To who? 

        Well to KO's start-up, of course!

        Some people thrive in that environment.

        Bob

    re .20
    
    Woweee !
    
     Talk "GLOBAL COMPANY",
    		Think "US Company"
        	     Act "New England Company"  ????
    
    :-)
    
    John 			

    I just had a phone conversation with someone that was over at BXC
    (Boxboro) yesterday and that person said BXC was full of B. Palmer's
    people.  BXC the new frontier (frontier = HQ)???

    I called the Board of Assesors in Town Hall Maynard and they indicated
    that the Mill is owned by Digital Equipment Corp. So I guess KO doesn't
    rent it to the present management.

    Headquarters: 1: a place from which a commander performs the functions 
                     of command
                  2: the administrative center of an enterprise.
    (Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary)
    
    Now the questions are:
    
    1) Does BP executes the President/CEO functions from the Mill ?  Yes/No.
    
    2) Does the BOD administers DEC from the Mill ?  Yes/No.
    
    

    JUST A RUMOR...REPEAT...JUST A RUMOR
    
    Heard this morning here in the Mill that Digital will announce tomorrow
    or next week that the Mill will be closed over the next 18 months or
    so.  No confirmation, just lots of buzzing.
    
    Mark
    

    I still want a pewter clock tower for my 25th anniversary award...
    assuming I'm still around 1.25 years from now...assuming they're
    still giving out 25th anniversary awards 1.25 years from now....

    Micorsoft just announced it bought DEC.
    
    \nasser
    
    
    April's fool!
    
    almost got you, didn't i ?
    

    you got me for about 10 seconds, then i hit <cr> 
    mark
    

    Very good Nasser!!!  You had me for the same 10 seconds until I hit the
    <cr>, also.
    
    Scott

I was just told that the mill is not being sold, but that the offices 
will be moved to other facilities, then it will be converted into a
hotel/restaurant complex. (like the Boylston project)

Renis

    
    Are we getting into the real estate development business or something?
    Why would DEC want to own a hotel/restaurant complex?  
    
    Don't tell me.... APRIL FOOL!!!
    
    -Ed
    

    I'll tell you what I'd like to see done with the Mill...no, I'm not
    going to say blow it up again.  Let me give some background before I
    state my suggestion. 
    
    I owned my own business once, a 45 employee, 7 figure revenue business. 
    The knowledge that I gained from self-managing that business is equal
    to a PhD in Business.  Here at DEC I have encountered many "Business
    Managers", "Program Managers", "Whatever Managers" that are a tad short
    of a half full load of business knowledge.  It isn't because they don't 
    try or have the capacity, DEC has developed them that way.  
    
    You see, when you manage your own business, regardless of size, you
    become knowledgable in all areas of business and you deal with or
    manage all areas of business.  YOU are the CEO, Business Manager, Personnel
    Dept., Finance Dept., Purchasing Dept., Inventory Control Dept., Marketing
    Dept., Sales Dept., Insurance Dept., Government (Fed, state, local)
    Issues Dept., Legal Dept., ETC.  Get the drift.  You know something
    about all parts of the business.  You become a BIG picture thinker or
    else your business fails or you pay alot for consultants.  In DEC we
    don't get that type of training to become "Business Managers".  We may 
    work in 2 or 3 functions, but there are those that stay stove piped in
    one.  Plus, our metrics force us to micro-manage our world...we don't
    always consider the impact to other parts of the company.  
    
    For example:  I recently took a finance job in Sales/Services finance,
    I left Manufacturing.  In budget/forecast meetings I too often hear
    folks talk about missing Margin dollars, but they are still able to
    make Margin percent...Thus it's OK.  WRONG.  Dead wrong.  They forget
    that at the start of the year other parts of the company
    (Manufacturing, Engineering, Personnel, Corporate HQ, etc.) set
    spending budgets that were based on a certain amount of Sales Margin DOLLARS
    that in the end gave the company a certain bottom line profit margin.
    So, if Manufacturing, etc. does a good job and spend equal to or less than
    their budget, then they have managed well per the plan.  Now if
    Sales/Services fails to bring in the amount of margin dollars from their 
    revenue stream, the company will not make the planned profit or could
    even loose money.  This could all happen while Sales/Services makes the
    planned margin percent.  The point being ...the person who thought
    they managed well because they made margin percent while comin in short
    with margin dollars, actually hurt the company.  They failed to think
    of the "Big Picture".
    
    Now my suggestion...
    
    With all that in mind, I vote yes -- turn the mill into a restaurant
    and a hotel, along with shops and whatever else.  Use it for a training
    ground for future Business Managers and anyother types of Managers.  Let
    them all learn first hand about what "running/managing" a business
    really means.  Let them start and run a business for a year, if after
    one year their business made a profit, they get the Manager's job that 
    they are seeking.  But, if they have a loss...back to the salt mine and 
    business class 101...and let them try again until they get it right.  
    
    If anyone at corporate has the courage to implement this wild idea, I'll
    put my badge on the line to accept the challenge of setting up this
    program and managing the program.  If I don't show a profit (better
    trained managers), then I'm headed to the mine...out'a here.
    
    Scott  
                                                                

    
    I disagree.  Managing a restaurant or hotel is not the same as managing
    some portion of a computer manufacturer/integrator.
    
    Saying a restaurant manager can run Digital is like saying "Any 
    cook can run a country"  I think I'm quoting Stalin here...
    
    -Ed
    

>Managing a restaurant or hotel is not the same as managing
>some portion of a computer manufacturer/integrator.
Not, it's not the same - it's a lot tougher.

I think the ideas are great but.... I think the same ends can be met by
hiring from outside or farming talent out to schools and existing businesses
without the expense of owning the businesses. After all, all you want is the
training, right?  Why buy the school?

Mickey.

    Ah, but give this a thought.
    
    In college or whatever level of schooling, they teach you a tool
    explaining it in one form or within one topic...this does not mean
    that the knowledge gained can only be used in that one topic.  Your
    professor expects you to be wise enough to apply the theory to a
    multitude of topics.
    
    A very simple example, not ment to be degrading, just simple and to the
    point:
    
    We learned to count by adding 2 apples to 2 apples which gave us 4
    apples.  Our teacher then expected us to be able to use the theory of
    math to add 2 atoms to 2 atoms to get 4 atoms (or a bomb).  
    
    My point is, understanding the theory of business to the degree that you
    are able to apply that theory to whatever line of business you are in is
    what is important and what give us the knowledge to run or manage a
    business, function or deptartment successfully.
    
    Scott

     
    Sorry if this came off like trivializing restaurant or hotel
    management.
    
    I do think I have a point though...
    
    -Ed
    

RE:  .43 


>>  I just had a phone conversation with someone that was over at BXC
>>    (Boxboro) yesterday and that person said BXC was full of B. Palmer's
>>    people.  BXC the new frontier (frontier = HQ)???

	Not sure what this means, working for Digital we are ALL
Bob's people.   BXC is the HQ for Ed McDonough's Worldwide 
Manufacturing and Logistics organization.
	
	Here what the rumor mill :-) is reporting here in BXC

	The Mill is under agreement to be sold (don't know to whom)
but not sold yet, thus DEC is still listed as the owner.   Also heard
the same rumor cited earlier that plans for the future of the Mill would
be announced tomorrow.
	Rumored choices for Bob and HQ folks to move to are 
Marlboro, Stow, or Powdermill Rd.  Don't know what would happen
to the others in the Mill (workstation engineering etc.)

Mac

    
    Without digital, Maynard wouldn't have a need for a Hotel.  What would
    people come here for?

Take a look in the phone book.  DEC Maynard is not the same as MLO.

Elaine

    Does anyone have the remotest idea of what's being discussed at this
    point? Jon (.0) did you get your answer? Hotel managment...????

    
         >Without digital, Maynard wouldn't have a need for a Hotel.  What
         >would people come here for?
     
    why do they go there now is the bigger question.
    in fact, do they still do corporate visits there or do they bring a
    picture of the Mill to the visit site.

    meetings are being held, memos are out, MLO is abuzz, Powdermill
    Road here we come
    Mark
    

I have just read a memo that officially announces the closing down of the Mill.

MSO will be the corporate headquarters and the remainder of the population
will be phased over to other facilities over the next two years begining
in late summer. I am sure more information will be posted later today.

    RE: .67
    
    
    That is *REAL* bad news. This company has now lost out on more than a
    building....it has lost part of its very soul.
    
    I'm glad that I had at least spent some of my time in the Mill. What a 
    shame!
    
    Marc H.

    More customers come to PKO than any other Digital facility (a factoid I
    heard stated by management).  All customers taking training at PKO3
    stay in hotels 30 minutes or more away (Marlboro, Westford, Framingham,
    etc.).   A Maynard hotel would be a great help to customers.
    
    Bo

      Does anyone know how many people are currently working at the Mill
    complex?
    
                                Thanks
                                Rich
        

From:	MLMAIL::MLMAIL::MRGATE::"MROMTS::NROMTS::MRGATE::NEST::CORPEMPCOM"  1-APR-1993 19:55:15.45
To:	@Distribution_List
CC:	
Subj:	URGENT MEETING FOR MANAGERS AT 9AM

From:	NAME: CORPEMPCOM <CORPEMPCOM@NEST@MRGATE@NROMTS@NRO>
To:     See Below


*** This message is from Corporate Employee Communication ***

As a manager or supervisor in the Mill, you are invited and 
strongly urged to attend a meeting at the Doriot Auditorium 
(MLO4-5) at 9 AM tomorrow -- Friday, April 2.  

This meeting is intended to announce and clarify the company's 
decision to relocate operations out of the Mill over the next two 
years.

Win Hindle, senior vice president, will be on hand to answer your 
questions and materials will be distributed to help you talk 
about this with your employees.

We apologize for the short notice, but to give us an opportunity 
to explain the decision to managers in person, and to make sure 
employees hear this first from us, rather than through the press, 
we had to maintain strict confidentiality.  We ask you to please 
respect that confidentiality until the 9 AM meeting begins.

We suggest that you arrive early.  If and when the room fills, 
the doors will be shut.  In that case, you can return for a 
10 AM meeting with the same content and the same opportunity to 
pose questions, and the handouts from the 9 AM meeting will be
available afterwards through Mill Site Personnel.  

Meetings will be held throughout the day, simultaneously in both 
the Doriot Auditorium and the Sheridan/Hinchcliffe Conference 
Room at 10 AM, 1:30 PM, and 3:30 PM, to give employees an 
opportunity to hear the full story and ask questions of senior 
managers.

Attached is the text of the LIVE WIRE news item which will be 
posted at 10 AM (prior to announcement to the press).

****************************************************************

Text of LIVE WIRE Message:

DIGITAL ANNOUNCES PLANS TO RELOCATE HEADQUARTERS TO MSO
AND TRANSFER OPERATIONS FROM THE MILL TO OTHER SITES

Digital today announced plans to relocate the company's 
headquarters from The Mill to another site in Maynard and 
transfer operations located at The Mill to other Digital 
locations. The relocation process will begin late this summer and 
extend over the next two years.

In a series of meetings, over 2,100 Mill employees were told that 
the decision is part of a comprehensive real estate strategy and 
came about as a result of Digital's continuing analysis of the 
company's space requirements and efforts to consolidate 
activities into more efficient and cost-effective facilities.Most 
of the employees and operations now located in The Mill will be 
relocated to other Digital-owned eastern Massachusetts buildings.

The company's world headquarters will remain in the town of 
Maynard, but move to MSO2 on Powdermill Road, a building that was 
opened in 1991. "We considered the strong symbolism of The Mill 
as the location where the company began 35 years ago and the 
impact that our decision would have on the community," said Bob 
Palmer, president and CEO. "Our decision was difficult, but in 
light of the information we studied about cost of operation, 
functionality and location, we had no alternative but to begin 
phasing out operations in the complex and consolidating them 
among our other properties."

Bob has appointed a Mill Program Manager, Nancy Salustro. He has 
also asked a committee of senior managers to help her work with 
town, state and federal government officials, and outside 
developers to create plans for a reuse of the complex that will 
produce the maximum social and economic value.

Decisions about where to locate other activities from The Mill 
will be made by analyzing where they best fit with related groups 
at other sites and the effect the moves will have on enhancing 
Digital's ability to be customer-focused.

Senior managers explained how Digital's real estate strategy has 
resulted in more efficient, cost-effective facilities management 
first by moving out of leased facilities into Digital-owned 
buildings. The second tier of study is an analysis of future 
space needs and criteria for determining consolidation into the 
most efficient facilities. The Mill contains approximately 1.1 
million square feet of space and includes Corporate executive and 
administrative offices, laboratories and manufacturing 
operations. Efforts to date have resulted in the reduction 8.7 
million square feet of space and an annual savings of $219 
million.

The original Mill structure was built in 1847 by Amory Maynard 
and William Knight, principals of the Assabet Mills. Reorganized 
in 1862 as the Assabet Manufacturing Company, it supplied woolen 
cloth, blankets and flannels to the Union Army during the Civil 
War. In 1957, Digital began operations in 8600 square feet of 
rented space in The Mill. As the company grew, it occupied 
greater portions of the available space until the total site was 
purchased by Digital in 1974.


VMSmail To information: @089A01_6.DIS;1

To Distribution List:

STEPHEN MORO@MLO,
STEPHEN WEINSTOCK@MLO,
STEVE OLESIN@MLO,
STEVEN AGRAZ@MLO,
STEVEN SEUFERT@MLO,
STEWART JACKSON@MLO,
STUART MORGAN@MLO,
THEODORE HOPSON@MLO,
THEODORE KAUPPI@MLO,
THERESA BUCKLEY@MLO,
THOMAS SURETTE@MLO,
VICKY TIERNEY@MLO,
VINCENT MULLARKEY@MLO,
VIRGINIA BARILONE@MLO,
WALTER PROKOWIEW@MLO,
WAYNE RETT@MLO,
WILLIAM CAPERS@MLO,
WILLIAM HANSON@MLO,
WILLIAM HEAVEY@MLO,
WILLIAM JAMES@MLO,
WILLIAM JOHNSON@MLO,
WILLIAM KOTEFF@MLO,
WILLIAM LOWE@MLO,
WILLIAM MELLO@MLO,
WILLIAM MONAHAN@MLO,
WILLIAM PICOTT@MLO,
WILLIAM SCOTT@MLO,
WILLIAM STEUL@MLO,
WILLIAM STRECKER@MLO,
WILLIAM WALSH@MLO,
WINSTON HINDLE@MLO,
YOGESH PARIKH@MLO

    Shoot, with folks here worrying if they'll even have jobs during the
    next six months, who cares if the Mill closes in 18?
    
    Steve (at the Mill)

    RE: .72
    
    If you don't understand it, I can't explain it.
    
    Marc H.

    re: .73
    
    Well, actually, I *do* understand it.  I feel a lot of sentiment about
    this building.  You have to kind of let out a sigh about having to
    leave this place, what with lots of fond memories and all.  My point is
    that my feelings of sentiment are rudely brushed aside when it comes to
    thinking about my future and career at Digital.  My attention is
    focuses now on what I can do to stay valuable in my job over the next
    six months to a year or so.  So, the Mill closing in two years seems like 
    a long way off.
    
    Steve

    re .70
    
    In the 9:00 a.m. briefing conducted by John Simms and in the handout
    that was distributed, it was said that the current Mill population is
    about 2,100

re Note 2429.74 by ECADSR::SHERMAN:

>     My point is
>     that my feelings of sentiment are rudely brushed aside when it comes to
>     thinking about my future and career at Digital.  

        If most of us felt that the company were really making
        substantial -- and LASTING -- changes to turn its fortunes
        around I would agree with you.

        However, there is a distinct feeling that while major
        cosmetic changes are undertaken, and while a great deal of
        real muscle is being lost in the work force, the people who
        really run things are mostly people who had been running
        things for the past 10-20 years.

        Our form, our appearance, and now our headquarters, will be
        different, but our way of conducting business, our way of
        thinking about what we do and about the markets we serve,
        will be the same.

        Sentiment may be one of the few things we have going for us
        -- that and round dots over the "i"'s in our logo.

        Bob

re: .70:

>      Does anyone know how many people are currently working at the Mill
>   complex?

I believe it was KO who once answered a similar question with:

	About half of them.

John

       re: .77
    
    	Today's Livewire article that announces the closure of the Mill
       says that there's 2100 employees.
    

Interesting symbolism...moving HQ from a building (the Mill) that stands for
most of what is best about the company to a building (MSO) that symbolizes
most of what is worst about the company.  :-(
								paul

    From what I understand, the old mill clock is an historical landmark,
    and therefore will have to stay at the mill (not that it would be
    economical to move it).  So what symbol are we going to put on the
    service awards from now on?  Assuming there will continue to be service
    awards...
    
    Otto (13 yrs. service and hoping to make it to at least 15!)

    	Well, with an opening like that...In place of the clocktower, there
    will be either a smiley face or little heart with soft earth tones for
    a background. With every service award, you'll receive wax lips and a
    hand-written note from BP, with love and kisses.
    	By the way, it's going to take AT LEAST 18 months just to FIND
    everyone in the Mill to let them know that it's closed. Just imagine
    who or what they'll find in some of the darkest recesses...

    >So what symbol are we going to put on the
    >service awards from now on?  Assuming there will continue to be service
    >awards...
    
Aahh, There you go again making those rash assumptions!

This is a sad day.

The Mill is the only Digital building I've ever seen that had character.  All
our other buildings are modern, boring boxes with no character and no history. 
When you walked down the halls of the Mill, you felt that you were the latest in
a long line of people who worked there.

I suppose the service awards will now use what's on top of our new headquarters.
I can't wait for a tie clip with a picture of an air conditioning box or the top
of an elevator shaft on it.

Paul

Text of LIVE WIRE Message:

DIGITAL ANNOUNCES PLANS TO RELOCATE HEADQUARTERS TO MSO
AND TRANSFER OPERATIONS FROM THE MILL TO OTHER SITES

Digital today announced plans to relocate the company's 
headquarters from The Mill to another site in Maynard and 
transfer operations located at The Mill to other Digital 
locations. The relocation process will begin late this summer and 
extend over the next two years.

In a series of meetings, over 2,100 Mill employees were told that 
the decision is part of a comprehensive real estate strategy and 
came about as a result of Digital's continuing analysis of the 
company's space requirements and efforts to consolidate 
activities into more efficient and cost-effective facilities.Most 
of the employees and operations now located in The Mill will be 
relocated to other Digital-owned eastern Massachusetts buildings.

The company's world headquarters will remain in the town of 
Maynard, but move to MSO2 on Powdermill Road, a building that was 
opened in 1991. "We considered the strong symbolism of The Mill 
as the location where the company began 35 years ago and the 
impact that our decision would have on the community," said Bob 
Palmer, president and CEO. "Our decision was difficult, but in 
light of the information we studied about cost of operation, 
functionality and location, we had no alternative but to begin 
phasing out operations in the complex and consolidating them 
among our other properties."

Bob has appointed a Mill Program Manager, Nancy Salustro. He has 
also asked a committee of senior managers to help her work with 
town, state and federal government officials, and outside 
developers to create plans for a reuse of the complex that will 
produce the maximum social and economic value.

Decisions about where to locate other activities from The Mill 
will be made by analyzing where they best fit with related groups 
at other sites and the effect the moves will have on enhancing 
Digital's ability to be customer-focused.

Senior managers explained how Digital's real estate strategy has 
resulted in more efficient, cost-effective facilities management 
first by moving out of leased facilities into Digital-owned 
buildings. The second tier of study is an analysis of future 
space needs and criteria for determining consolidation into the 
most efficient facilities. The Mill contains approximately 1.1 
million square feet of space and includes Corporate executive and 
administrative offices, laboratories and manufacturing 
operations. Efforts to date have resulted in the reduction 8.7 
million square feet of space and an annual savings of $219 
million.

The original Mill structure was built in 1847 by Amory Maynard 
and William Knight, principals of the Assabet Mills. Reorganized 
in 1862 as the Assabet Manufacturing Company, it supplied woolen 
cloth, blankets and flannels to the Union Army during the Civil 
War. In 1957, Digital began operations in 8600 square feet of 
rented space in The Mill. As the company grew, it occupied 
greater portions of the available space until the total site was 
purchased by Digital in 1974.

    If indeed the Mill is closing as the current announcement today states,
    wouldn't it be great for Digital to utilize/rent some of the space and
    install a Digital Child Day Care Center for working moms and dads...?
                                                                     

Hey, maybe we can boost the bank balance by selling 
Genuine Mill Souvenirs?

Bits of lanolin-soaked wood, perhaps?

I agree with .68 about the soul thing. Digital *is* the Mill. Closing this 
facility to save a few bucks is wrong and is not a solution to our problems. 
In fact, it simply compounds them.

The problems in Digital are related to the terrific waste. Decisions are 
made every day that waste everything from precious human resources to real 
live dollars. Addressing these problems will result in ongoing savings, not 
the silly one time bump we'll get from throwing away our heritage.

This "Black Friday" is truly a sad day for Digital and the hundreds of 
thousands of men and women who have laboured to make this company a success 
over the past 35 years. It's really a sad commentary that it's come to this.

It's too bad there is no time to rethink this one and start addressing some 
of the real problems around here - many of which cost no money to fix and 
would result in saved funds. It boggles the mind. If there were something to 
do to stop this closure, I'd sure be for it.

My vote is "Don't close the Mill"

Ford
...in a deep blue funk...

    It'll be great if there are any working mom's and dad's still around!

    RE: .82
    
    >Aahh, There you go again making those rash assumptions!
    
    Hope you were joking, since I didn't do it AGAIN, it was the first
    time, and it's not RASH, since in the current cost-cutting structure, I
    CAN see the service awards going the way of other programs (we recived
    no turkeys for Christmas in Canada last year; that's been permanently
    cancelled).
    
    Otto.
    

    While your idea is an interesting one, I think that the idea of 
    DIGITAL sponsoring Day Care is not in keeping with the spirit of
    enterpreneurship and downsizing that is a cornerstone of the '90's.
    
    Instead, what would be much more viable would be for some of the
    people at DBM to decide to form a day care center, and to solicit
    Digital for start-up funding. Keep in mind, though: a Day Care
    Center at the Mill would only draw Digital employees from MSO and
    PKO. I don't know if this would be sufficient to keep the business
    in operation. They might need to draw business from elsewhere.

    Last I checked, Day Care was not on the core business units list. 
    DEC is not in the business for watching children. And the DEC of today
    is not about to *spend* money doing warm & fuzzy things like worrying
    about the day care needs of it's employees. 

    The Mill is closing, it's like the last chapter for the book about 
    the family we used to know as Digital. Everything is now pared down 
    to bottom line thinking. To the "leaders" of DEC nothing else counts.

    Gail  

    RE: .80
    
    Otto, you make me feel better when you say you are hoping to make it to
    15 years, now at 13 years.  I'm 2 months away and I'm hoping to make it
    to 6 years.....after surviving 2 plant closings and a total of 7
    layoffs.
    
    .83
    
    Otto, I agree with you, but what really hurts is when you hear about 
    all the people spending big $$$ in places like Hawaii for COE, DEC 100,
    etc. and the other weekend outings that sales and services puts on...
    like a weekend for you and the spouse funded by DEC for a grand total
    of $104,000.00 (or 2 jobs for one year).
    
    Scott

From .0, this went from RUMOR to FACT in only 10 days!  It looks like we have 
almost as many leaks as Washington!


							-Paul

    Heard rumor Mill was closing in September of 1992.  I was just waiting
    to find out how long it took management to tell us the facts.
    
    Jean

	Yes, it's sad that the mill is closing. I regret that I never 
	worked there. I heard from someone today that the mill would 
	not meet OSHA standards in 1995 or so, and that had a big
	impact on the decision to close it. If true (or something similar)
	I can understand the decision and accept it, but still be 
	saddened that Digital is loosing yet another facet of DEC.

					Tom_K

    hi!

    since they have chosen MSO to move the Mill to , does this means the
    other rumor about us going to Texas was all wash hash?

    or you think we still might go to Texas even though the Mill was not
    moved to Texas?

    you think it is possible for the Mill (which will be in MSO by then)
    to still make another move to Texas too?

    does any one knows what is going on here?

    thank you very much,
    \nasser

    
    RE.91
    
    No a day care center would not be great. This company is fighting for
    its LIFE. I think that managment has a lot of other things to worry
    about like the SURVIVAL of this company. 

    
    	Even with today being my last day at Digital (leaving voluntarily
    for new adventures in more stable environments), the news of the Mill
    being closed down is, well, I'm at a loss for words but it certainly
    shows that not only from a business perspective, but now from a deep
    "soul" perspective the Digital that I joined in 1981 is totally different
    from the DEC I'm leaving in 1993.  I suspect I'm not going to be the
    only person to remember today.
    
    							-craig

    Curiously, I was just listening to a tape of Joseph Campbell. This is
    from the "jacket" from the 5th tape of Vol, 1 tape 5 of Transformations
    of Myth through Time.
    
    "The main problem with symbols,"  says Joseph Campbell, " is that
    people do not view them as symbols." Too often, people take symbols
    literally - believing for instance, that they must physically go to 
    Isreal to get to the Promised Land in a spiritual sense. In this
    lecture, Campbell contrasts this mind-set with one that arose in India
    around 900 B.C.. Quoting from the Upanishads, he says, " The source of
    the gods is in your own heart. Follow the footsteps to that center and
    know that you are that of which the gods are born." This is the basic
    theme of the perennial philosophy.
    

    SOOOO, bringing some of this heady stuff to the topic at hand....
    
    We have here a real crisis of symbols. And people are identifying the
    meaning of the Mill, the symbol, with the literal building. But,
    the best of the OLD DEC was not in the building. It was in the people
    in the building and their sense of being part of a shared business
    adventure. Many of us have been side swiped by the changes and knocked
    far away from the core of our creativity and initiative, but we can
    find our footsteps back to it again, because it is still a valuable
    part of our work. Even the new brand theme - "putting imagination to
    work" recognizes that the Mill's style of working is not exactly out of
    style. 
    
    Whether or not we can bring that kind of energy to our work will depend
    on our ability to do two things - to quench the fear of losing our
    jobs, which stunts our individual creative spirits, and oddly enough,
    to also quench the desire to win, which means making decisions at
    the expense of each other (politics, n'est-ce pas?). We need to focus
    on the process, neither winning nor losing, but putting one foot in
    front of the other on the way back to our best, and here's the tricky
    part, _collective_ work. 
    
    A tall order, but I would say one that embodies the spirit of the MILL.
    The Mill is dead, long live the Mill!
    
    		Be Bold!
    
                     --Catherine--*   

>    Last I checked, Day Care was not on the core business units list. 

That's right.  It doesn't begin with S.

Does this mean my 5 year, 10 year, etc pins with the clock tower on them are now
collector's items? :-)

    Since we still own the building with the clock tower, and might own
    it forever (if no one wanted to buy it), the symbol is still valid &
    may not become a collectors item.  On the other hand, someone might
    snap it up real soon & off we go.  Like any investment, it's a risk.
    Mark
    

re Note 2429.103 by MEMIT::SILVERBERG_M:

>     Since we still own the building with the clock tower, and might own
>     it forever (if no one wanted to buy it), 

        This is a very real possibility:  any old property --
        especially a factory -- is very difficult to sell these days
        if it ever was the site of any waste dumping.  Cleanup can be
        very expensive.  This may be opening up a real can of worms.


>     On the other hand, someone might
>     snap it up real soon & off we go.  

        On my 10-year award clock, the clock tower emblem literally
        did snap off.  Does this mean that I can not get it replaced?
        :-)

        Bob

                     <<< RE: Note 2429.93 by RTL::LINDQUIST >>>

>    Many of the digital employees I've encountered would benefit
>    from this.  They suffer from poor social skills, inability to
>    communicate, and don't play well with others.  Child Day Care
>    would be ideal.
>
>    Or, did you mean for their children?


	Thanks, call me sick , but I had the best laugh that I've
	had in a long time. Thanks...

    >Does this mean my 5 year, 10 year, etc pins with the clock tower on
    >them are now collector's items? :-)
    
    if you can find the guy who listed his ford escort in CLASSIFIEDS 
    a few months backas a collector's item you might have a buyer.  ;)

    A customer told me yesterday that he heard the Mill was being sold to a
    Japanese concern.
    
    As to what happens to the Mill as a symbol? Why it's replaced by the
    Alamo of course.

    Two years ago, someone on the West Coast (J.L.) told me that
    if DEC didn't take Open Systems seriously then DEC would be 
    displaced from the mill, just as the textiles industry was before. 
    
    John
    
    
    
    

    i was sitting doing my laundry in the local laundry facilities place
    and minding my own business and the guy next to me was reading the local 
    newspaper waiting for his spin cycle to finish then he flipped to the 
    business section and i could not help but see the big headline in
    front of the page was "DEC shutter down the MILL" (or something like that), 
    it was huge headline, filling up the whole front of the page in thick
    big black print across the head, did not get the name of the paper (may 
    be the Boston Herald?), any way, this just shows how important this event 
    locally here in masshsususates, and that allot of people out there must 
    be talking about it because it such a big headline in this local paper.

    \nasser

>re: <<< Note 2429.85 by RANGER::LTMA2::RACKEMANN "Ford Rackemann - RANGER::RACKEMANN" >>>
>                
>I agree with .68 about the soul thing. Digital *is* the Mill.


	I read this, and really coudn't believe it.

	To a large part of the company the mill doesn't mean anything, I hadn't
	even heard that our head-office was in a mill, called the mill, until
	I'd been here over 5 years.

	I understand that many people may be attached to this building, but 
	it is definatley not the soul, and it is definately not Digital.

	Heather

    I think DEC should consider "donating" the tower and an associated
    building to the Town of Maynard for a museum. DEC to still own the 
    right to use the clock tower as a symbol.  
    
    Or it could be given to the Computer Museum..
    
    Try and sell the rest.

    Re: several notes
    
    If we're talking about symbolism, think of the symbolism of a company
    that has been forced to close its headquarters building.  I can look
    out the window and see a reminder of a similar event:  the former Pan
    Am (now MetLife, but marketed as 200 Park Avenue) building.  Companies
    that are doing well do not move HQ from large, famous buildings (like
    the Mill or the Pan Am building) to obscure ones.  In the case of Pan
    Am, they moved to a building in/near Miami's airport;  in our case,
    we're moving to MSO2.
    

>The Mill is the only Digital building I've ever seen that had character.  All
>our other buildings are modern, boring boxes with no character and no history. 

Well let's not forget the Springfield Digital Plant - a former armory -
where i spent many years of my long career at Digital. Unfortunately,
it too has met its demise...and will be closed soon.

/james

Re:  .110

> To a large part of the company the mill doesn't mean anything, I hadn't
> even heard that our head-office was in a mill, called the mill, until
> I'd been here over 5 years.

> I understand that many people may be attached to this building, but
> it is definatley not the soul, and it is definately not Digital.


Heather,
    Don't be silly - of course the mill represents the soul of the company, 
to many many employees, but much more importantly, to the rest of the world. 
The mill is all that some cutomers know. You know, the clock tower that 
everybody in here is talking about? This is the building in which Digital 
was started. This is the building in which Digital became a one million 
dollar company. The very same building in which Digital became a one billion 
dollar company. It is the facility in which Digital became a dominating 
player in the computer industry. How does it look to the rest of the worlkd 
- customers and competitors - when we throw away our roots and abandon our 
heritage? I think it is short sighted of you to write off the mill in such a 
cavalier way. Closing the mill is a very bad thing - for Digital's 
employees, for Digital's customers, for Digital's image, for the local 
economy, and even for the state economy. The only possible benefactor of 
this poor decision is our competition. It's almost the same as the US 
government selling The White House to the Japanese to clean up the deficit. 
I hope you wouldn't be ready to embrace that idea so quickly.

Ford

    I was around for the first exodus from the mills of New England - when
    the textile industry moved out.  I was pretty young at the time, and
    most of the resulting hardships were lost on me, but I do remember the
    great decay of the textile cities.  The effects of the mill closing
    will be nothing compared to that, but the symbolism and feelings of
    deja vu are a trifle unsettling.
    
    On the other hand, the mill found a new life when Digital took it over.
    I hope history can repeat itself in the mill's revitalization as well
    as in the mill's closing.

In my opinion, most of our customers couldn't care less whether Digital's
headquarters is in the Mill or not.  Most don't even know about the Mill
and are puzzled beyond words when they see a clock tower used as a symbol
of the company.

Where is IBM's headquarters?  What does the building look like?  Who really
cares?

Don't get me wrong - I like the Mill; it has a lot of "character".  But to
me it symbolizes a "tradition for tradition's sake" mentality that is holding
us back in the industry.  Most DEC employees have never even seen the Mill,
much less worked there.

As employees, we are often "too close" to the situation to be able to be
objective about corporate decisions.  We should be careful not to let
sentimentality prevent us from becoming stronger as a company.  I think
moving on is the right choice.

				Steve

I disagree with those who think leaving the Mill for MSO is just
another business decision.  It IS a symbol (read message to our
customers and ourselves) and leaving the Mill is symbolic too
(another message).

The trouble is, it's not a very bright message.  Perhaps the Mill
is not drab, or anonymous enough, for our new Corporate image.

On the other-hand, moving into the Mill was probably a contrarian's
decision and moving out and into an architecturally tedious place at
the very time when old interesting structures are newly valued for
their ability to inspire seems contrarian too.  Maybe Digital is
leading, again, by finding value in weary monotony where no one
else is willing to try.   Lead on.  I could use a nap.

Dennis Slough

PS.  A customer reported to me, at the CSC, that he heard about the
move on his radio (in LA, CA, USA) a mere 4 hours after I got the
news via Livewire.  Business media noted the significance.

    John N. of reply .108 sent his note reply to me asking if I remember.
    Unfortunately I do and after looking at the other replies around it I
    thought to respond.
    
    What he is referring to is a bit of New England industrial history.
    Once upon a time the 'Route 128' area was the machine tool, textile
    tool, and Mill capital of the country.  It was the high tech of its
    day.  Over time the various companies developed a textile tooling
    business that was carefully crafted to benefit the tool makers.
    Although I have forgotten the particulars, the companies were inter-
    locked such that their machines were compatible with each other
    (but not necessarily with anyone elses) and textile mills that used
    the machines from one NE company had to buy from that and its
    cooperating tool companies in order to get something that worked.
    
    The textile industry changed and mills needed to change the type of 
    cloth they wove and the way they did it.  Whereas the New England
    companies peddled the 'one architecture' story, the English and
    German machine companies asked their customers what they wanted, made
    a simpler and cheaper machine to do the new job needed and won the
    business.  There is a lesson there.  Those New England companies
    never knew what hit them (because they spent all their time in
    their mental New England) and went out of business.  That is why
    Lowell is a museum an little else.  The textile industry also left
    as the old machines finally wore out.
    
    My premise to John is that there was a reason why KO moved into the
    mill.  It was cheap because it was empty.
    
    The company STILL needs to understand Open Systems.  At its core, it
    is finding out what the customer wants first and then building
    something to fill that need.  The customer tells the vendor not the
    other way around.  Unix was chosen in this market not because of its
    intrinsic technological elegance, although there are a FEW really clean
    bits.  It was  chosen because the folks 'out there' in user land could
    control it rather than some unresponsive engineering company that 'knew
    better' what the customer should have.
    
    The current rush toward W/NT is yet another example of the attitude. 
    Microsoft, BTW, is not putting all of its eggs in the NT basket as so
    many within Digital seem to be doing.  They just announced MS-Dos V6
    and plan to continue that diversified path.  VAX/VMS has gotten this
    company into the trouble it is in today not because it is a poor design
    or that it does not work.  It got Digital into trouble because it is
    the ONLY way Digital has thought for years.  This company more than any
    other I have worked with/for looks inward, as if the world outside New
    England is opaque.  There is more to life that VMS and the company is
    only lately coming to that understanding.  I see the NT frenzy as but
    another continuation of that mindset.  It is the old Prism/Mica project
    resurrected.  Even the NT book by Helen Custer has the familiar look of
    the Ozix specs I saw years ago.  Even Dave Cutler does not get it.  The
    Intel based software vendors tell him that they need a function added
    or changed and he tells them what he as decided they will get...
    
    Alpha will not save this company.  Neither will VMS under the new
    banner of Windows/NT.  Only the company will save the company and only
    when it askes the customer first, builds what the customer REALLY asked
    for and stops wasting resources on what the customer does not want,
    such as DEC{write,present}, CDA, LAT, etc. that have more internal than
    external license share.
    
    It is not performance or even price performance.  It is appropriately
    priced performance that the customer wants and the sales force actually
    knows how to sell.
    
    BTW, Sun is moving to new corporate headquarters next year and will
    abandon their original corporate site.  No one has noticed since they
    are looking elsewhere.  For example, they recently had a developers
    forum and got 1700 people to show up.  Most of their vendors are well
    on their way to finishing the Solaris 2.1 ports.  People call their Sun
    reps asking about systems.  The Sun reps actually go out and sell, and
    can sell what they have NOW in the pricebook.
    
    Enough.  I rarely read notes much less write to them.  I rarely read
    Internet news either since I have to work with ISVs all day although it
    is far more valuable since its bulk of articles are from OUTSIDE the
    company.  Its all your fault John for sending my your note reply... ;-)
    
    Jim
    p.s.  "Its De'ja Vu all over again" - Yogi Berra

How many people outside GMA and Digital have voiced shock, regret, etc. at
the news that we are moving our corporate headquarters?

What do our customers say about it?  Will it cause them to change their
business practices with DEC?

Will the move help or hurt in our market recognition?  What business impact has it
had in the past?  

The mill does have sentimental value and it's sad to part with it.

However, closing the mill is saving money, we're told, which can be used to
gainfully employ people.

The choice is a no brainer to me.

Gerry 

    
    All of this reads a hell of a lot like the biography of Thomas Edison
    I read last month.
    
    Fact is that inventor/entrepreneurs inevitably are removed from power
    by financial interests.  Bill Gates will have his day too.
    
    -Ed
    

    Wow!  And only a month ago, the little clock-tower fell off my business
    card case!  Psychic vibes or what!
    
    More seriously, i must take issue with some of the reasoning of .118,
    in particular his ranting on our software products.
    
    You are using the old KO approach, make it, do nothing and then assume
    no-one wants it because they didn't all show up at our unannounced
    sale.
    
    NAS is brilliant, but...  No one buys on presentations.  Demo the
    stuff!  The volume of folks at the WordPerfect v5 booths watching the
    salesman (yes, he could run his own product!!!) cut and paste from
    1-2-3 was amazing.  What was he demonstrating?   The WordPerfect/Lotus
    implementation on a PC of the NAS code we had given them about a year
    earlier!  What were we demonstrating?  Well, we weren't.
    
    So DECwrite has a poor market share.  Cancel the product would be one
    quick (and probably thoughltess) solution.  But WHY does it not have
    market share?  Is it not richly-featured?  Yes it is!  Is it available
    on many platforms, including your very own pc with Windows?  Yes it
    is!  Is it integrated in the various environments?  Yes it is!  Is it
    easy to get and competitively priced?  HAH!!!
    
    Under the leadership(?) of Mr. Smith, glowing tributes in the paper
    notwithstanding, the Digital sales force got more and more (rewards and
    power) for less and less and look where we are!  Now you want to pick
    on the products!  
    
    If our products are not designed for the customers, why is the only cry
    I hear "Allowance!"?

I'd love to see the numbers of how much $ we will save by closing the
mill....

    re: .118
    
    Two of the analogies in .118 are, unfortunately, false.  The textile
    business left New England primarily due to labor and transportation
    costs.  While it is attractive to think of stagnant technology, recent
    history says otherwise.  A month or two ago, the Harvard (Mass.) _Post_
    carried a reminisce by a long-time resident about the days before Rte.
    495 was built (Boston's "outer beltway," for non-residents). 
    Massachusetts Rte. 110 was then a major route between New York City and
    Maine, crammed with vacationers' cars.  For a few years, they were also
    "filled with the nightly rumble of trucks carrying mill machinery from
    Lowell to North Carolina."
    
    Similarly, while Microsoft may not be putting all its eggs in the
    Windows NT basket, it is most assuredly nestling them in the embrace of
    the MS Windows GUI.  Public information from MS mentions nothing about
    unadorned MS-DOS beyond version 6, while it does promise a "Windows 32
    on DOS" in 1994.  MS-DOS v6 is a valedictory.
    
    Wes

re: .118

>> My premise to John is that there was a reason why KO moved into the
>> mill.  It was cheap because it was empty.

	Seems KO could have a chance to do it again in a couple of years with 
	a new company :-)

re Note 2429.116 by QUARK::LIONEL:

> As employees, we are often "too close" to the situation to be able to be
> objective about corporate decisions.  We should be careful not to let
> sentimentality prevent us from becoming stronger as a company.  I think
> moving on is the right choice.
  
        Of course, the executives making decisions such as these are
        even closer to the situation -- yet the common assumption is
        that that makes for more objectivity, not less.

        Bob

>>> My premise to John is that there was a reason why KO moved into the
>>> mill.  It was cheap because it was empty.
>
>	Seems KO could have a chance to do it again in a couple of years with 
>	a new company :-)

Aha!  The reason why DEC is leaving the Mill is *really* because
the Mill was promised to Ken as part of his "retirement" package...

>Heather,
>    Don't be silly - of course the mill represents the soul of the company, 
>to many many employees,

	I did say that I can understand the attachment of some people, but the 
	majority of people in Digital have never heard of the mill, let alone it
	being a soul.

> but much more importantly, to the rest of the world.
	
 	I believe this to ba a delusion.

>The mill is all that some cutomers know.

	And most customers have never heard of.

> You know, the clock tower that 
>everybody in here is talking about? 

	Until I read this notes topic, I never knew there was a tower or clock,
	I have never seen it on any documentation, or official anything in the
	10 years I have worked here.
	I have never even heard it mentioned - not by employees or customers.

> How does it look to the rest of the worlkd - customers and competitors - 
>when we throw away our roots and abandon our heritage? 

	It is not my roots and heritage from working in Digital, and as the
	majority of customers haven't even heard of it, I would suggest
	it doesn't look like anything.

> Closing the mill is a very bad thing - for Digital's 
>employees, for Digital's customers, for Digital's image, for the local 
>economy, and even for the state economy.

	I can't really comment on the local or state impact, however I can't see
	any detrimental effect for employees or customers - except the employees
	who have a sentimental attachment to the building.

	I really don't understand why you think it is such a big thing for
	Digital, when most of the employees and customers have never even 
	heard of the mill, clock, or tower.

	Heather

	re .110:

>        To a large part of the company the mill doesn't mean anything, I hadn't
>        even heard that our head-office was in a mill, called the mill, until
>        I'd been here over 5 years.

	But then Heather, you work for Digital.

	A lot of us still work for DEC, even if we're forced to
	translate that into "Digital" every time we speak or write.

	/Tom

    I'm going to add one more to my 19 undeniable truths about Digital
    
    "Digital cares more about its past than its future." 

    re: The mill was empty
    
    Actually, we shared the mill with quite a number of other companies in
    the years after DEC moved in - in fact, one of Ken's stories of early
    DEC had to do with how we kept dripping acid into the furniture
    warehouse underneath the first board manufacturing line.  Supposedly
    most of the companies early furniture was acquired from our insurance
    company after it bought it off the warehouse.  There were still at
    least three other companies occupying sections of the mill when I
    started in the mid-70's.
    
    /Butch

    	A friend of mine is a diehard Millrat. He thinks it will take at
    least two years to get the people and equipment out of the Mill. In
    fact, other things have to be figured out as well, since the Mill
    houses the radio equipment used by the helicopters and security. One
    comment he made which I found amusing was that he hopes that this move
    really does make financial sense and isn't just more "de-kenning."

    It's only a building. You know, brick, wood, etc. Made by people.

    It is not alive. It does not have a soul. It's just a building where
    people work.

    Is it possible that the mill is giving off toxic fumes, clouding
    people's thinking? Or do you guys out east just need a shrink?

    -=- Paul

      I was looking through a closet at home yesterday and came across a
    box of wrapping paper that brought back memories. When I started in DEC
    there were indeed other companies that shared the mill complex, one of
    them was Dennison. It was a company (maybe still in business) that
    printed wrapping paper in building 1. Some of us techs back in those
    days had to use the elevators to move equipment from floor to floor and
    frequently ran into the Dennison workers who were discarding excess
    run-offs of wrapping paper. They had a large variety and told us to
    help ourselves to the stuff in the trash bins, paper that was protected
    in plastic and in perfect condition. Sometimes they got rid of rather
    large rolls, ours for the asking. Since I doubt that there are many
    original woolen blankets still around from the mill, maybe the wrapping
    paper I still have is one of the oldest products that came from the
    mill aside from some original DEC equipment. That dates back 25 years.
    
    Paul
    

>    them was Dennison. It was a company (maybe still in business) that
    
    Still in business. In fact it's a rather large company.
    
    		Alfred

    RE: .120
    
    You captured my feelings too. 
    
    Marc H.

    RE: .121
    
    Can you give some details of the book? Author? Where to buy it?
    
    Marc H.

    As far as savings go, right off the top it was going to cost $6 million
    to bring the electrical service up to code and end the summer brownout
    problems.  Add in costs to fix all the other problems in the mill, plus
    the general operating costs of a complex that size and you get a
    sizable savings each year.  
    
    We're down to buildings we own now and we still have excess space. 
    Perhaps the mill will be the last site we have to close.
    
    I love the mill, but I'd rather see us keep several hundred jobs than
    keep it open.
    
    	Dave

I must admit, I've read this topic with a bit of amusement.  For a lot of us
outside of GMA, the mill doesn't mean much.  It's somewhat important from a
historical perspective, but as far as our day-to-day business and that of our
customers, it ranks about a 0 on a scale of 1 to 10.  It's only in GMA that
one can say they work for Digital and have people know it means Digital
Equipment Corp.  Here in Dallas for example, people are will probably think
you work for Digital Switch Corporation (DSC), if you tell them you work for
Digital.  If you say DEC, they won't have the slightest idea what you are
talking about.  So, moving out of the mill won't mean anything.

Bob

    I will miss the Mill but I miss Bedford and CXN-1 and.........
    
    Well, I really don't miss Bedford or Route 3 or Route 62 :^) It was
    funny to drive to PKO everyday for training instead of Bedford, but
    the drive was more enjoyable.
    
    Seems like a LOT of buildings are going away, I guess that's progress?
    
    I do have my clock tower tie tack to remind me of the Mill. BTW, is
    anyone going to buy the Mill? For the amount of cabling (fiber, copper,
    etc...) it should be worth something!
    
    /Mike

    re: .139
    >>As far as savings go, right off the top it was going to cost $6 million
    >>to bring the electrical service up to code and end the summer brownout
    >>problems.  
    
    As far as I know, there are brownouts because Mass Electric (or Boston 
    Edison, or whoever it is who supplies the power) asks Digital, and
    other major users of electricity, to cut back on power use at times of 
    peak demand.  It happens at PKO and presumably all other Digital sites.
    It has nothing to do with the electrical service at the mill.
    

I believe it's possible, as .120 says, that the closing of the mill "has
everything to do with symbolism".  Changing of the logo, the brand campaign,
et. al. are also symbolic.

However, it's not the symbolism that got us to be unprofitable, unfocused, etc.
It's decisions by the people in charge.  Until we get the right mix of qualified
managers (business as well as technical) who can create a new Digital which is
fun, profitable, challenging, etc. all these symbolic changes will be
meaningless.  That process has begun (witness KO, Jack Smith, Enrico Pesatori,
et. al.)

I'm indebted, and I believe that most of us are, to KO, JS, et. al. for creating
the digital that gave us careers, fun, comaraderie, etc for so long.  However,
it's not working any more and so we've got to change.  It's unfortunate we
can't find a new role within the company for the leaders of yesterday.

Gerry 

re Note 2429.140 by ROWLET::AINSLEY:

> I must admit, I've read this topic with a bit of amusement.  For a lot of us
> outside of GMA, the mill doesn't mean much.  It's somewhat important from a
> historical perspective, but as far as our day-to-day business and that of our
> customers, it ranks about a 0 on a scale of 1 to 10.  

        I've often felt that one of the mistakes Digital made while
        becoming big was failing to continue with the approaches
        that worked so well in the early days.

        In particular, I always wondered why the Mill was the ONLY
        (as far as I know) old mill that Digital recycled.

        Instead, Digital recycled a number of relatively new
        buildings (including a shopping mall and the RCA Computer
        headquarters), and of course it built a number of
        characterless facilities (ZKO is the epitome), but it never
        continued, with the same passion, the original thinking that
        got it growing.

        We made the same mistakes in the computer industry, too.

        The Mill was merely a side-effect of the original
        perspectives of the people at Digital.  It was a
        one-of-a-kind.

        Bob

Re: .136
    
>>    them was Dennison. It was a company (maybe still in business) that
>    
>    Still in business. In fact it's a rather large company.
    
    Random nit: Dennison either merged with or was bought by Avery about
    six years ago.

     The Mill is a symbol, the Mill is a Myth,
      the Mill is a building, the Mill is a pit.
     The Mill is tradition, the Mill is folk-lore,
      the Mill is adventure, the Mill is a bore.
     The Mill is beginnings, the Mill is a light,
      the Mill is inspired, the Mill is a right.
    
    And so-on and so-forth.  Don't know what came over me...
    I *loved* working there -- even had a window overlooking the
    pond for almost a year.  Had to stand on a chair to see out,
    but what the heck.
    
    Anyway, how many DECCIE's would be willing to take
    a .5 to 1% paycut to help defray Mill operating costs until
    this corporation is back on it's feet and can afford to
    sustain an important tradition?  Now wait.  Even you
    skeptics who don't really care, imagine the PR!
    
       "DEC Employees Band to Save Heritage, Keep Mill Headquarters"
    
                                 or
    
       "In This Time of Trendy Downsizing, DEC Employees Say "Enough!"
    
    If it isn't already, the Mill *would* become a world-wide symbol of
    a company -- of a corporation made of individuals -- with
    principles.  Not that we're sticking to tradition for it's own
    sake, but because the Mill symbolizes what DEC did right before,
    and what, with hard work and entrepreneurial flair, we can do right 
    again.
    
    Handled correctly, something like this could have a huge PR windfall 
    for DEC.  One *big* reason to consider it.  Start a movement, anyone?
    
    Cheers,
    Dean F.
    

RE:  .146

If I'm still around after the next TFSO, and if I'd agree to return .5% to 1%
of my salary to the company, I'd rather have it go to keep people employed.

My ordered priorities:
	1.  people
	2.  logos
	3.  telecom services
	4.  buildings
	5.  miscellaneous stuff (5/10/15 year awards, post-its, WSJ, etc.)

Gerry

P.S.  The priority of everything after #1 is insignificant and changeable. 

re: .146

No thanks.  I'd rather have office supplies.

Bob

    My best memories, and perhaps only exposure to what once was known as
    the "Dec culture," were the three years I spent at the Mill. I'll miss
    it.
    
    Rich

    I've never worked in the Mill.  Actually, I was well past my five year
    anniversary before I even visited even though I work not too far away
    in MKO.  I've probably visited the Mill 3-4 times -- total.
    
    I sort of like the mystique of the place, but for me, personally, it's
    no big deal to see it vacated.  I also have to agree with
    Heather that, for 99.9% of our customers (maybe Dennison is an
    exception) the fact that we moved corporate headquarters is *no big
    deal*.  All they will notice is that instead of listing our address as
    146 Main, we will list our address as 111 Powdermill Road -- 
    *it's even the same town*.
    
    Chet       

    .147
    Every party needs a pooper, that's why we "invited" you...gee WHIZ!
    
    You say "people" are a priority, yup, don't think a one of us disagrees
    with you, but, the "people" of this (once) great people are demoralized
    to a point of no return, and closing the symbol of this wonderful
    culture, in addition to all the other insults to our morale we have
    endured over the last few years, is simply, to my way of thinking, a
    thoughtless action that you can't prove by me is "financially"
    necessary, and is a slap in the face of the "people" who worked long
    and hard to bring this company to its place of eminence. I'm the author
    of .120, and let me tell you, I am plenty pained by this latest
    development, it sure doesn't give me the warm fuzzies that our senior
    management gives one hoot about the feelings of the "people".  Yes, it
    was a symbol, and a very special one at that, of a very special place
    to work, with all of its quirks and idiosyncracies, not one of those
    blend-into-the-background characterless high tech companies...quoth the
    Raven, "Nevermore"... (cribbed from Poe)
    
    Too much heartrending change, too fast...
    
    A former MLO1-Fiver...with a window on the pond, and REAL windows I
    could open for F R E S H air!  and a sun that beat in mercilessly in
    the afternoon, and shades you could draw that helped a little, a holes
    in the wooden floors that could do a real number on high heels, so I
    always had a pair of flats at the ready, and my backside never looked
    firmer as when I lived at the Mill, and had to climb all those stairs,
    and you could catch KO in the cafe, and you could walk downtown and do
    all kinds of domestic errands at lunch...
    
    Sigh... 

re: .151

It's a symbol only to SOME people and a lot of those people are gone, some of
their own choosing, some not.

Bob

    
    Kinda like the new coke.

re:  .151

Congratulations.  You've got me cornered.  I don't know if I should zig or 
zag.  I don't know if your proposal was presented in earnest or in jest.

> Every party needs a pooper, that's why we "invited" you...gee WHIZ!

Well, excuse me if I don't say thanks for having been "INVITED" to the party.

P.S.  From the reaction to note 2452, seems like there's several "poopers"
      at the party.  I hope you brought a "pooper scooper"!!!!

RE: .144

	Come on, ZK(O)'s lack of character *IS* its character!

	I will say this. I'd love to get an open window in this
	place. The air in here sucks. OSHA should take a look at
	this place too!

	My vote is to dump the Mill. It's not going to be worth
	having in the long run.. (This coming from someone who
	loved and roamed the Mill for the first 2-3 years of my
	DEClife)

	In ZK(O) with a sinus infection for the past 6 months!,

					mike

    
    Well how about the building where they used to store the lanalion (sp).
    Yeh, the one where if your desk had wheels, and wasn't nailed down,
    would roll towards the center of the building.  The one where they used
    to give one of those big barrels a slight push and it would roll all 
    the way from one end to the other....it even had slight rises in the
    floor to slow it down.
    
    And then there were the manila folders hung from the ceiling to catch
    the lanalion drippings so it wouldn't get all over your terminal.
    
    And what about the old generator...that still works, and Digital sells
    elec. back to the power company.  The big wide belt that runs through
    the floor from the water wheel to the generator...Remember that room
    with the single light bulb shining bright?
    
    Well enough I guess.  I will miss the mill.  It was, IS a great place,
    and Digital did great things in and with the mill.  It would not have 
    been here this long had Ken not put so much time and money into it.
    
    Whatever happens to the mill, I vote we keep the clock tower as the
    corporate symbol....long live the clock tower.
    
    
     

    
    ref 140.
                hi,  I use to live and work in Dallas,Georgia too.
                                                                 

    
    I worked in the mill for 10 of my 13 years at DEC.  I'm going to miss
    it but I can understand closing it because it really must be a terrific
    expense to maintain.  I don't think that looking back is necessarily
    bad because  I don't think that what made Digital great is exactly what
    brought it down to its current level.  So to the extent that the mill
    represents the work ethic -- working hard, having fun, innovating --
    that made us great, I offer these mill rat descriptons that appeared in
    my mail a few years ago.
    
    

			REAL MILLRATS AREN'T CONFUSED
			  BY TUNNELS UP IN THE AIR

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Real Millrats don't wear shoes with soft crepe soles.
Real Millrats have been up in the clock tower.
Real Millrats don't wince when the pallet trucks rumble past.
Real Millrats don't ask why the pond is yellow.
Real Millrats know where Tory's moved to.
Real Millrats don't wear ties.
Real Millrats can find Building 2.
Real Millrats don't eat breakfast at Paul's - instead, they buy it there,
	and take it back to the office.
Real Millrats don't get winded climbing stairs.
Real Millrats have seen the generator.
Real Millrats enter the cafeteria via the exit.
Real Millrats don't get confused by having to go outdoors to get to the
	stairwells in Building 1.
Real Millrats don't turn their terminals off at night.
Real Millrats don't append "O" to location codes, and especially not to "ML".
Real Millrats don't wear socks that match their shirts.  Sometimes they
	don't wear socks that match.  Sometimes they don't wear socks.
Real Millrats don't get to 9:00 meetings on time.
Real Millrats don't navigate by pole numbers.
Real Millrats are incapable of giving clear directions to non-millrats.
Real Millrats understand why the pond is uphill from most of the Mill.
Real Millrats know what's in the basement of Building 21.
Real Millrats put their feet up on the desk while they are typing
	at their terminals.
Real Millrats know how to get free food from the vending machines.
Real Millrats don't scream "EARTHQUAKE!" when the building leans in the
	wind or shudders because a truck has backed into it.
Real Millrats know how to get from 1-1 to the vending machines on 
	3-1 and aren't afraid of going there alone.
Real Millrats rarely wash their coffee mugs.
Real Millrats have badge numbers less than 6 digits long.
Real Millrats don't use the entrances with guards at them.
Real Millrats wouldn't be caught dead with a VT52.
Real Millrats can correctly identify the components of a PDP-8.
Real Millrats send mail electronically.
Real Millrats have "personal" (non-work) files on their system.
Real Millrats have at least one surplus computer component that they
	keep "for nostalgic reasons".
Real Millrats can go places where NOBODY will find them.
Real Millrats would NEVER transfer to Merrimack.
Real Millrats have badge numbers less than 65536.
Real Millrats return from Merrimack (but don't move back to Mass.)
Real Millrats have DECtapes in their possession.
Real Millrats don't get confused when walls have been removed, or moved
	since the last time they were in the dungeon; 4-4, 3-4, etc.
Real Millrats offices don't have carpets on the floor.
Real Millrats chairs have flat casters (oak is harder than plastic)
	on their chairs and terminal stands.
Real Millrats have stacks of line printer paper soaked with
	lanolin on their grey steel desk (no lock).
Real Millrats are not concerned by the toxic waste disposal units
	parked by the river.
Real Millrats know where the soda fountain at Mannings went.
Real Millrats tell time by listening to the bell tower.
	(If the bells aren't ringing, who really cares what time it is!)
Real Millrats have wooden bookcases, with books in them.
Real Millrats know how to operate Real Elevators.
Real Millrats know how to get a line printer from 11-3 to 4-1.
Real Millrats know where 4-1, 7-1, 3-1, 6A-1, 6B-1 end and begin.
Real Millrats have been transferred to a "modern" office building
	at another site, and came back anyway.
Real Millrats miss the board shop.
Real Millrats read graffiti in the bathrooms
Real Millrats know the sound of sand blasted wood, jack-hammered brick,
	monkey-wrenched pipe, above, below, and to the side.
Real Millrats like rickety wooden stairways with foot marks worn into them.
Real Millrats string their own terminal lines the length of Building 1.
Real Millrats know how to remove splinters.

The replies to this note are good examples of our varied experiences while
working for the same company.  Sure it means alot to some of us and nothing to
probably an even larger number.

Probably some people only know of the Mill or the Clock Tower by the anniversary
gifts we used to get (for example, my 15 year watch has a little clock tower on
the band).

I'm sure anyone that has worked for a long time in any building has memories
and may disagree with its closing.

RE: recycling mills mentioned in an earlier reply, wasn't the Springfield plant
a former armoury?  I was never there but remember hearing this.

BTW, keep sharing your Mill memories, its part of our oral history here at DEC.

re Note 2429.155 by AXEL::FOLEY:

> RE: .144
> 
> 	Come on, ZK(O)'s lack of character *IS* its character!
  
        It's real subtle!

        Bob

I spent a few years working in Maynard Plant MFG (the manufacturing plant 
where it all started) and in the Board Shop when it was operating. I was 
speechless as a state of disbelief came over me. The Mill is a special place 
for DEC. It is a special place for all DEC employees... whether they know it or 
not.

The closing of the Mill is a serious milestone in the evolution of our company.
I have been out of the 3M area for 3 years now, but the pain is still real.

There have been many events over the past three years that have brought
feelings of dismay, disgust, puzzlement and confusion. For me, the decision to
close the mill sits right at the top of the most emotional pieces of news I
heard in recent years.

I can only hope its worth it.

Regards,

Jim

    Well, my concern with the closing of the mill is the fact it is going
    to cost an aweful lot of money to move equipment and employees from
    that place...
    
    Just the cost of moving ALL that PBX/telephone switching equipment is 
    going to be near 17 million dollars (my calulation). that is just to
    move the equipment... It would have to be installed "mirror image" to
    the existing, brought on line, then the old powered down and removed.
    
    Not a bad figure for a company bent on saving money...!
    
    Just my opinion
    
    Bob G.
    

    i also sure hope someone make sure the mail is forwarded from
    the mill to MSO after they move. i always lose mail myself when
    i move from place to place.

    \nasser

re .163

	Well, you have to spend money to make (or save) money....

	I'd be rich, but I can't afford it...

				Tom_K

re .163

>    Just the cost of moving ALL that PBX/telephone switching equipment is 
>    going to be near 17 million dollars (my calulation). that is just to
>    move the equipment... It would have to be installed "mirror image" to
>    the existing, brought on line, then the old powered down and removed.

This number is a joke right?  I thought there are only 2K people in the 
building, there is no way it takes $17M US to move it.  For a couple 
hundred $K we could buy new NT equipment for a complex for only 2K folks.  
That is assuming that in 18 months we still have 2000 people to move.  I 
would think that we have spare office space in the 3M area for that many 
people.

Leave the stuff there, or sell it.  There is no way you need to pay to move 
any of it.

Matt

    re:.166
    No, the 17 Million is no joke.  I didn't post it myself because I
    didn't know if we had wanted it publicized, but it's the number that
    Corporate Telecommunications gave Real Estate when they first raised
    the notion of closing the Mill last winter.
    
    The Mill's own telephone extensions are a negligible expense.  The Mill
    is the hub of the Easynet, the Integrated Digital Network, the Digital
    Telephone Network, and the Digital Lightwave Network.  We have I think
    five European T1 or E1 circuits going there.  We have hundreds of T1
    domestic circuits there, plus the fiber optic gear.  The Mill PBX is
    the main control for all of the Maynard/Stow sites (SL-100).
    
    To move out, we have to essentially rebuild the networks elsewhere,
    then put them in service.  That means LOTS of expensive carrier
    circuits have to be duplicated for a considerable period, plus
    redundant equipment, etc.
    
    Hence my opinion:  No money saved.  Ken's ghost.

    re: .167 <Hub for Easynet, etc.)
    
    You're joking, right?  In other words, if the Mill loses power, or
    diaster strikes, the entire Easynet and other telcom networks go down? 
    For the entire US geography?  Sure it's headquarters, but who would
    make any location a single point of failure for a DISTRIBUTED,
    PEER-TO-PEER communication system???
    
    re: The Mill
    
    While I was a customer and went to Digital classes, all of my ed-svcs.
    documentation displayed this picture of a clock tower.  Up until a year
    after I started with Digital, I had no idea what it was, or cared.
    
    As a customer, I looked to DEC to supply me with a solution to my IS
    problems.  The mill would have meant nothing to me because it didn't
    help me solve my problems.  As a DECie, the mill isn't important since
    I've never been there, and my customer isn't in the GMA.
    
    I do feel for those that will miss the mill for nostalgic reasons.  But
    face the facts, I would guess 80% of DECies and %95 of our clients care
    less about the 'symbolism' of the mill.  As an earlier noter stated,
    "If it saves us money, the decision is a no-brainer."
    
    --- Gavin

    RE: Milling as a "single point of failure" could not be furthest from
    the truth.. The many networks are set up in such a way that if the mill
    suffered from an unfortunate accident, the network would remain
    functioning for the rest of the company... 

    The mill is the hub during normal business operations. 

    The cost, as stated, would include a "mirror image" of the present
    network, into the new facility(s)... testing then turning up service
    between that new facility and the Digital world... then the tear down of
    the mill's telecommunications equipment...

    By no means a simple task... BUT as a 22 year Telecomm rat I wish I
    were part of the team blessed with such an undertaking... What a
    challenge.. not to mention at least two years of job security.
    

I think that the reasoning for closing the mill is blindingly obvious,
if not what some of us would like to hear:
What is the mill a symbol of?
Lets see:
It's the building where DEC was founded.
It's where much of DEC's history happened.

The Mill is a SYMBOL OF DIGITAL's HISTORY.
Digital has chosen to do away with that building/symbol.

Now that's a message that's hard to mistake.

"Things won't be like that again. Ever.  Forget about it, its past."

My $.02
Kevin

    "For nearly a hundred years the Old Clock has stood at the Mill in
    Maynard, Massachusetts as a sturdy symbol of faithful service.
    
    "The Clock has ticked its way through good times and bad. It has worked
    its way through the turn of the century, two world wars, the Great
    Depression, and three different owners.
    
    "Neither the timer nor the ball mechanism have ever been electrified;
    Digital employees climb 120 steps to wind the clock every week - 90
    turns for the timer, 330 turns for the striker
    
    "And still the Old Mill Clock goes on. Day after day. Year after year.
    
    "So when the time came for Digital to select a symbol for your service
    award, it was easy. We had one in our own front yard.
    
    "The Old Mill Clock. An emblem of excellence. A model of consistency. A
    tower of enduring strength. A timeless reminder of your own diligent
    work.

    re: .169
    
>    By no means a simple task... BUT as a 22 year Telecomm rat I wish I
>    were part of the team blessed with such an undertaking... What a
>    challenge.. not to mention at least two years of job security.
    
    I wonder if they'll outsource the job ...
    
    Geoff

    
    From what I understand (from many sources) the numbers for 
    closing the Mill were run again and again, until the right
    combination of numbers/excuses were hit upon. (for example
    OSHA does not make companies retrofit old buildings. That's 
    a bunch of horse hockey that we have to come up to some ridiculous
    standard!) Quite frankly, the ghosts are too much for current management. 
    Besides, I think the newer facilities make for a much better backdrop
    for designer suits to be seen in. That is what counts, right?  
    
    As for those of you who have no knowledge, or have never seen
    the Mill, It's a shame. As many people have said, it's probably 
    are only facility in Digital with a modicum of character. The 
    reason people are so sentimental over it,  is that so much 
    good work happened there. The Mill did indeed represent a place
    of spirit, joy and was full of youthful, eager people. 
    
    I think some of the sarcastic comments in this string are uncalled for. 
    I think people's feelings should be respected as their personal 
    viewpoints and opinions, and should be valued as such. ( I think 
    personnel calls is "valuing difference"). 
    
    Some of the regional viewpoints, such as the West Coast and European 
    views, interest me greatly (get a life, you said, as I recall).  Many 
    people have stated that they had no clue as to what the Mill was about 
    or stood for. Perhaps if we came to your area, and said the Tower of 
    London or the Mission San Juan Capistrano had no value, you might feel 
    differently about cutting down an area's heritage. The Mill means more 
    than just Digital, it is a very historic building. 
    
    As a general FYI, Bob himself met with town officials yesterday to 
    consult about possible companies that would be suited to moving 
    the Mill. Gotta get those property taxes covered! 
    
    
    FWIW. 

    I've only been here (at DEC) 8 years and so only have a 5 year pin and
    hwas looking forward to a 10 year memoribilia item with the Mill on it.
    I've driven by once and was truly inspired; next time I go past, if
    training allows, i'll stop in and climb up the tower. It is truly sad
    to see the Mill close, particularly since many older buildings get
    exempted. Those who abandon their successful histories (& their
    symbols) often show the first signs of forgetting the inspiration of what
    made them great. Let's hope the implications of abandonment are'nt as
    weighty as they might be.

I thought DEC was moving out of the Mill building not demolishing it! Those 
who feel strongly should perhaps form their own business and rent the Mill 
because _this_ business can not afford it.

I for one, am glad I work for a company that is finally recognising that 
there are healthier ways to cut expenses than shed employees.

Dave.

    
>    Some of the regional viewpoints, such as the West Coast and European 
>    views, interest me greatly (get a life, you said, as I recall).  Many 
>    people have stated that they had no clue as to what the Mill was about 
>    or stood for. Perhaps if we came to your area, and said the Tower of 
>    London or the Mission San Juan Capistrano had no value, you might feel 
>    differently about cutting down an area's heritage. The Mill means more 
>    than just Digital, it is a very historic building. 
 
	I think you misunderstand.

	I have said the mill is unknown to most of the employees or customers
	of Digital, and also I do understand after finding out about it here, 
	it has a sentimental attachment to a few.

	A similar response would be that Americans did not know that the Tower
	of London existed, but after reading something about it, understand 
	that it may have a sentimental value to some.

	Valuing differences does not mean not telling the truth.

	Heather

>	I have said the mill is unknown to most of the employees or customers
>	of Digital, and also I do understand after finding out about it here, 
>	it has a sentimental attachment to a few.

	That's fine. However, from previous notes it is apparent that there
	are those who do not share your understanding.

	I personally am sad to see the Mill go. I like the place, and it
	holds great symbolism for the company. It's historic. But, I also
	understand the need to move on, in both a financial and symbolic
	sense.

	Some people have gone off the deep end in either direction. The
	idea of saving the Mill by donating our pay is just plain silly, and
	the people who harangue those who feel any kind of emotion are
	annoyingly obtuse. My bet is that the vast majority fall somewhere
	in the middle, either feeling some emotion at the passing of the
	Mill, or at least understanding those who do.

	Roy

    RE: .173
    
    Nice...couldn't have said it better myself!
    
    Marc H.

    Many replies here have assumed that becuase we are moving out of the
    Mill, we will no longer be using the clock tower as our company symbol.
    Has anyone heard any official word that this is true ?  I for one don't
    think so.  We probably have enough anniversary gifts and Certificates
    with the clock tower on them in stock to last for the next 10 years.
    Its my belief that we are getting out of the Mill because it costs too
    much to maintain, not because the new management wants to through away
    our heritage or whatever.  I think we'll see the clock tower on gifts
    & literature for years to come.  I guess only time will tell.

Imagine how Londoners must have felt when London Bridge was sold and moved to
Phoenix, Arizona.

David

>Imagine how Londoners must have felt when London Bridge was sold and moved to
>Phoenix, Arizona.


	Pleased at the money we got.

	London Bridge was never a symbol................except for falling down
	and costing loads of money to keep repaired (que song....london bridge 
	is falling down, falling down, falling down)
 	I always thought that the Americans confused Tower Bridge with
	London Bridge, and paid loads of money for something noone else wanted.

	And having seen London Bridge in Arizona, I can say I am very pleased 
	we actually got any money for it at all, we did a very good deal.

	Heather

    
    There are so many people who have fond memories of the mill, and many
    of us will never forget it (or Ken for that matter).  So...
    
    How about an 8x10 picture of the "whole" mill, maybe even with Ken
    standing in front of it.
    
    That would be one picture I would put in an expensive frame and hang
    on my wall.
    
    I would even pay for a *really good* color picture.
    
    What think.....
    
    

RE: clock tower as a corporate symbol.

	I think we might find it quite difficult to maintain the Mill Tower
as our symbol if we don't own it. Especially if we sell the building to 
another company. BTW - My ten year service certificate (given 6 years ago)
has the tower embossed upon it. My 15 year certificate has the Digital
logo but no sign of the Tower.

    RE: .183
    
    Better than a photo (and there is a superb aerial view around
    somewhere) would be that 3-D plan, showing all the bridges and where
    they come out in each building.
    
    IMHO,
    Dave.

    We could also just lease out the clock tower when we need to use it.
    That way, it would continue to symbolize Digital.  (Boy, I gotta
    remember to get my bran muffins tomorrow morning ...)  ;^)
    
    Steve

I have a picture from 1982 of the Mill pond with the 25th Anniversary logo
floating in the middle of the pond, with bldg 1 in the backround.

re .183

I'll see what copies and postage will cost, maybe I found a new market in
addition to mill bricks ;<)

Bill Z.

    For those who think that anyone outside GMA haven't got a clue what the
    Mill is all about:
    
    In Singapore, all major proposals (for customers) are delivered in
    white binders with the Mill Clock Tower and Digital logo embossed in
    gold. Well, that's almost the furtest you can get away from Maynard
    short of going to space, it's practically on the other side of the
    globe!

re: .182

 >>I always thought that the Americans confused Tower Bridge with
 >>London Bridge, and paid loads of money for something noone else wanted

	I remember hearing when it was purchased that the millionaire who
	bought it had never actually seen the bridge.  He was shown a 
	postcard showing the "Tower Bridge" and on the card was some 
	statement about "the Tower Bridge as seen from the London Bridge"
	or something to that effect.  So when told the "London Bridge"
	was being removed and a new one put in it's place he bought it
	for the development in Arizona.  And in fact he did think that
	he was buying the beautiful "Tower Bridge" as opposed to what
	he got ;-)

dick 

    Re:176
    
    Yes, I love the double negatives. My "personal"  viewpoint
    of your notes is that you don't care about the Mill, which
    is *your* personal opinion and you are entitled to that. 
    Perhaps your lack of knowledge of the Mill leaves some 
    of us feeling you are uninformed. No offense, intended, 
    but of course. 
    
    As as uninformed individual, then, I can certainly understand
    your lack of emotion. 
    
    Kindest regards,
    
    Meg
    
    
    
    

Maybe as a kind of history project someone should create a "virtual reality"
representation of the Mill that future employees can roam through...? ;-)

One comment i see people making that strikes me as misguided is that by
closing the Mill we'll save employee jobs that would otherwise be lost.  I
have to believe that if the Mill wasn't closed they would've ended up closing
some other buildings to meet their cost savings targets.  I bet property,
plant and equipment savings are an entirely different "bucket" in the whole
budgeting process from salary and benefit savings and are managed as such.

The use of target headcount numbers like "under 90K employees by Q1 FY94"
indicates that the actual number of employees is what's important, maybe for
symbolic reasons on Wall Street.  Else why TFSO so many $25-$35K employees
while leaving the $80K+ ranks in place?  I know of one manager who was asked
for a plan on how to reduce his employee budget by 20%.  He tried to argue
for putting his whole group on 32 hour/week part-time status rather than
TFSO anyone.  Was told: "WRONG!"  So getting rid of numbers of people seems
to be more the issue in its own right.

Closing the Mill might've been done for psychological reasons (show that
nothing is sacred, exorcise the ghost of Ken Olsen, etc.), or because we
have some contingency plan that involves merging with or being bought out
by some other company that has an existing headquarters of some magnitude
elsewhere.  (Gee, speaking of Texas, is that where Intel is based?? ;^))

								paul

Re: .182 

	Heather, you always get in with just the response I am thinking 
	of posting but way ahead of me!

	As to all this talk of "The Mill" and the statements about
	being insensitvie and uniformed etc....

	To some people Digital moving out of the Mill will be a blow.
	To others it won't mean a thing except maybe an acceptance that
	we have to think along new lines if we are to survive.  (I am one 
	of the latter).

	It is NOT a question of being uniformed or insensitive to have 
	the latter viewpoint.  The Mill is NOT being demolished as far
	as I am aware.  I wouldn't care if someone said that British
	Parliament was being moved out of Westminster.  I might be a 
	little perturbed at the thought of the bulildings being pulled 
	down (conversely I'm sure you could find a lot of people in the
	UK who would cheer if they were and a lot who would go berserk 
	at the thought of "The Mother of Parliaments" moving).

	I always thought it was called The Mill in a slightly derogatory 
	way - you know like a treadmill or "I've really been put through
	the mill".  I've never seen even a picture of it, nor did I 
	know it actually HAD been a Mill until this string started.
	I guess Europeans will have a hard time understanding any
	attachment to a relatively modern building like that.  Many of
	us are living in places which are older without a second 
	thought.

	I was going to ask that we stop debating this subject and that 
	those who DON'T want Digital to move out of the Mill, do 
	something more positive, like tell Bob Palmer so and those who 
	don't care just keep quiet, but that would probably turn on 
	another flood of "you don't understand, you are uninformed and 
	you are insensitive" notes and after all. all this noting "got" 
	to me to the point that I had to let off steam about it.

	Cathy

	P.S.  Digital is moving out of the Mill... People are starving, 
	being tortured and killed every day - just a point on perspective 
	here.

>    Perhaps your lack of knowledge of the Mill leaves some 
>    of us feeling you are uninformed. No offense, intended, 
>    but of course. 
 

	Meg, because I don't have the same viewpoint as you does not mean that
	I am ill informed.

	The mill has no, or very little, impact on the majority of Digital
	Employees or their customers, so I don't see it as a big thing for
	Digital, however I can see that some people could be emotionally 
	attached to it.

	However I do admit that I wonder about emotional attachments to a 
	building, especially when it is planned to be re-used, not pulled down.

	Heather

    Instead of getting emotional about this, back and forth across the
    pond. Skip over notes from those who you know will upset you. There
    are a number of names that "trigger" either the next unseen key or
    I type n. Easy enough, their notes are read by those who agree with
    that particular viewpoint or aren't as emotional to the topic. I'm
    sure there are those or do likewise to mine. No hair off my back.
    Make a choice, either continue the excercise in getting the last
    word in or move on.
    
    Jim C.
     

I understand that folks who work for Digital in New England, and
have had dealings with/in the Mill would be very upset at the idea of it 
passing out of Digital culture.

What those in GMA need to understand is that this does not represent all,
or even most, of Digital Equipment Corporation.

For those of us outside of NE, while we may understand intellectually
what significance the Mill has to DEC, the emotional ties just aren't there.
It doesn't mean that we're uninformed or ignorant, just that its meaning
varies in different parts of the globe.  And we ARE a global corporation.

Kevin

Now I know the sales and marketing folks who have been merrily bashing away
at the mill have no clue of what is involved with product development and
qualification. For them my following words will be wasted..
I also realize that many have lumped people's fondness for the mill into some 
type of ken-culture mystique and that the mill must be closed to shed the 
"old DEC" image. 

As people bash away at how in-efficient or otherwise outdated the mill is
I am most struck by the comments in .21 who talks about how herendous it is
moving labs. The mill has several lab facilities that will need to be either 
moved or new ones constructed. MANY MANY MANY Environmental chambers, acoustic
lab, the shock and vibration lab, Thermal engineering lab, Mechanical engineer-
ing lab, product safety lab, and the TME prototype manufacturing operation.

If the author of .21 thinks that moving one lab into the mill would be bad, you 
have no idea how herendous (& expensive) it will be to move or replace all the
lab operations that I've mentioned.

    The quick access afforded to hardware engineering groups located in the 
mill will be sorely missed. An engineer could take equipment to the one of the
previously mentioned labs for required testing and return to his area to do
other work in minutes and return to the testing lab if there were problems.
(again within minutes) When I worked in a different facility, transporting 
equipment for testing done in the mill was done either in the back of your car
if small enough or sending via interplant truck. Either way is a pain and 
usually ended up consuming a half day of somebody's time. 
    Yup figuring the route to get from one particular building to a different
floor in another building could cause momentary head scratching,especially
if an elevator is down but it's still quicker than property passes and a car
ride or using interplant trucks.

    Regarding the simplistic statement about giving everyone new equipment,
you forget there are also engineering support groups in the mill and some
amount of the older equipment needs to be retained to verify problems and 
to test possible fixes. 

    Please do not forget the amount of computing power that is in the mill
to do simulations. There are several mixed interconnect clusters used to 
support simulation.

    And in closing, yes Heather you are ill informed because you indeed do
not know all the activities that go on here. It is also obvious that you
and other's not in product development or support do not care to know. 

    
    Re:
    
>    Instead of getting emotional about this, back and forth across the
>    pond. Skip over notes from those who you know will upset you.
    
    Please tell me how to do this. This is my most wished for missing
    feature in notes. I would love to be able to type in the command:
    
    SET PROFILE/IGNORE(xxx::yyy,aaa::bbb,...)
    
    so that I never get to see notes from certain people. I would be
    applying the command to people that just write trash notes rather than
    those I disagree with. Unfortunately you can't just hit NEXT UNSEEN
    because you miss the rest of the notes in a string.
    
    Dave

    Before I read an entry I look to see who wrote it. If I don't care
    for that persons tact I look to see if their note is now the last
    in that particular string, if so I hit next unseen, if not I hit
    N CR which gets me to the next entry. Nothing fancy about it really
    and perhaps there is an easier way.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    .198
    
    Should have taken your very excellent advice and enacted
    my personal SET/PROFILE and ignore button. Had done so 
    well up in until a couple of days ago, then just lost it. 
    Have now reactivated and expect to have no more delirious thoughts
    about offering opinions. Very bad idea. Topic is far too
    emotional, I think. 
    
    Back to sanity, out of this string. 

    Re: A few back
    Just hit the #3 key on your small keypad and you will automaticly go
    to the next note in the string.  If you hit the #1 key it brings you
    back to the previous note in the string.

    .-1
    
    that is a nice one.
    
    i assume you work in the Mill too?
    
    \bye
    \nasser

What happened to .202???  

I thought it was great!!!

M.A.

    it is moved to note .159
    
    \nasser
    

    re: .204
    
    It is great.  Unfortunately, it's a duplicate of .159, so I removed it.
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    When I was a new hire in 1980, I recall seeing a videotape presentation
    by Ken Olsen.  He talked about "The Mill".  It was empty when Digital
    needed space.  Why was it empty in the 1950's when it had obviously
    been necessary at some earlier date?  To KO, this was caused by people's 
    working hard, but not working smart.  His opinion was that those jobs
    might still exist today if those people, most-importantly their
    management had "worked smarter".
    
    Isn't that what has happened to the current tenant?  
    
    1) While we were busy capturing "market share" and showing improvements 
       every year by carefully defining the "market" to ensure the future 
       would show an increase in our share of it, Microsoft was going after 
       new markets.  
    2) While we spent much time and effort capturing and reporting on 
       "Leveraged Revenue", which is a way for every product on an order to
       take credit for the other dollars on the order, our software
       competitors were making their profits on their software.  We
       actually helped these competitors get their feet in the door and now
       they hold the software platforms that are the key to add-on software
       and services revenue.  Many of them are working toward hardware
       platform independence, which will allow them to write us out of the 
       account any time they want.  They are now between us and the end 
       customer.
    3) What about career advancement?  Are there technical paths?  In those
       parts of the company where technical career paths exist on paper, do
       they exist in fact?  I was in ISWS (no longer exists) and we
       supposedly had a technical career path.  My job's salary range was 
       reduced under JEC and my boss explained that it was because I didn't 
       manage anyone.  The bottom line in our group was two-fold -- The size 
       of your budget and your headcount.  This is how the govenment became 
       wasteful.  How many other groups in Digital work this way?
    
    Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it.
    
    Maybe Ken Olsen's new startup company will need to rent some space in an
    abandoned mill in Maynard, Mass.
    
                                            Kurt

    Round and round we go.... will it stop, nobody knows..!!!!!
    
    Boy, I remember those videotapes... It was at my orientation, 12 years
    ago... I seem to remember it being at the mill... It seems they held
    them there to link us with "the heart of the Company"....! Has the
    heart died? If the heart dies, we know what happens to the body. Will
    it happen to Digital..!!! I think it already has..
    
    BUT, I'm sure with this new "brand name" campaign going on, they will
    find a heart transplant, the patient will live, but the character will
    certainly have changed..!
    
    Time to move on, I suppose..! Here's to "life after Dec." I hope to
    soon see if it is true, that there is in fact, life after DEC.
    
    **** I have learned this ****
    
    Loyalty is everything for the person giving that loyalty.. BUT means
    nothing to the receiver of that loyalty when "it is only business"
    seems so easy to say..! 
    
    Later..!
    
    Bob G.
    

>    And in closing, yes Heather you are ill informed because you indeed do
>not know all the activities that go on here. It is also obvious that you
>and other's not in product development or support do not care to know. 


	So, how will this affect Digital equipment and its customers - most of 
	whom don't know or care whether these activities are performed in
	a building that used to be a mill, or a more modern building.


	Heather

    I know a lot of you think it's tedious to read more about the mill.  As
    I wrote earlier, it gives the impression that Digital cares more about
    its past than its future.

    The real issue here is that the mill was symbolic as Ken Olsen was, of
    what Digital (a) really was, (b) aspired to be, and (c) was perceived
    by customers to be.

    To a very large extent in 1993, Digital has become unanchored in a
    profound sense (ie in a world of open systems, what can a $14B company
    do that others can't), and in a lot of trivial matters.

    If a remote observer like me can see a big vacuum which ought to be
    filled with a new sense of mission and a spirit of competitiveness, I
    wonder why this has escaped the attention of our present senior
    management.

>    The real issue here is that the mill was symbolic as Ken Olsen was, of
>    what Digital (a) really was, (b) aspired to be, and (c) was perceived
>    by customers to be.

	I beg to differ, the mill was symbolic - TOO A FEW.


	Heather

>    If a remote observer like me can see a big vacuum which ought to be
>    filled with a new sense of mission and a spirit of competitiveness, I
>    wonder why this has escaped the attention of our present senior
>    management.

	Inc magazine had a short survey report recently. They asked both
	management and line/sales people if the company had a clear written
	mission statement. 99% of management said yes but only 77% of line/sales
	people did. I suspect that senior management believes that they have
	stated a clear mission statement. The course, to them, is clear. For
	them to know that others feel otherwise would require 2-way 
	communication. And right now it appears that a pre-requisite for getting
	to talk to senior management is buying off on what they want to
	believe is reality.

			Alfred

    Symbolism is important -- not just to employees, but to our customers. 
    Now, the specific symbolism of the Mill may not be important, but many
    customers are getting the message, based on the company's actions,
    that the company does not place the loyalty of its workforce in very 
    high regard.  
    
    As a result, many of those same customers are re-examining their
    loyalty to Digital Equipment Corporation, and wondering if they can 
    (or should) establish a better working relationship with another 
    vendor (or vendors).  
    					andrew

    re: .182 and London Bridge
    
    As I understand it some smart young official from the Greater London
    Council took the guy from Arizona to Tower Bridge and then got him to
    sign a contract for London Bridge. the ugly London Bridge was then
    packed up and sent to Arizona, where the recipients first realised
    something was wrong when they unpacked it. I just hope the guy from the
    council took the rest of the day off after he closed the contract. 
    
    Perhaps as some kind of compensation Digital could sell that clocktower
    to the city of London. It might look quite nice down at the tower or
    maybe in Hyde Park.
    
    Kevin

Re:          <<< Note 2429.169 by BSS::GROVER "The CIRCUIT_MAN" >>>

>    RE: Milling as a "single point of failure" could not be furthest from
>    the truth.. The many networks are set up in such a way that if the mill
>    suffered from an unfortunate accident, the network would remain
>    functioning for the rest of the company... 

I just received the following mail which tends to indicate otherwise...

    #1          19-APR-1993 10:07:44.65                                  NEWMAIL
From:   BSS::BSS::K_BISBEE "Kelly Bisbee CNMC-West DTN 592-5469  19-Apr-1993 0958"
To:     @CSCDIST:CXO3,@CNMCCXO12,COMET::MAJORC
CC:     K_BISBEE
Subj:   DTN service is down

        April 19, 1993
        09:50

        All DTN service is down at this time due to a problem at
	the Mill.
        Do not have an estimated time of restoration.
        Will send out another message when service is operational.

        Thank you
        CNMC West Telecommunications

     >April 19, 1993
     >       09:50
     >
     >       All DTN service is down at this time due to a problem at
     >       the Mill.
    
    .......And probably no one to fix it - the offices in MA are closed due
    to that unique holiday, Patriot's Day.
    
    Chet

re: .211

Right on, Heather!  "The Mill is symbolic to a few".  At least one note from
Europe seemed to indicate that someone over there was thinking that all U.S.
employees or all New England employees were crying their eyes out over the loss
of the Mill.  Well, it just isn't so.  I started in the Mill almost 20 years
ago.  Like many other firsts:  first love, first car, first house, whatever,
it is memorable.  I have fond memories, fun memories, and unpleasant memories.
But they're all memories, just as they should be.  It's a nice old building
and it would be a shame if it burned down or was demolished, but I don't
*need* it.  Back in the old days the rain came though the roof and the snow
came through the windows and we walked to work bare-footed, in the snow, seven
miles each way, up hill (in both directions) etc.  It was interesting.  The
building I'm in now is warm and dry and level and modern and quiet.  I can
do my work comfortably.  I do my job, I like what I do, others like what I do,
and I get a paycheck with the name Digital on it.  I'm happy with that.
Except for this conference, I'm not hearing *anyone* in the group or otherwise
moaning about the loss of the Mill.  From the way that some people are carrying
on about it, I wonder if they are still living at home with their folks because
they can't bear to be away from the house they grew up in and the people who
raised them.  Time marches on.  Let go of the past and be thankful you still
have a job.  It's just a building.  It's not as if a family member has died.
If it were a death in the family or the loss of your home I'd be very
sympathetic, sensitive, and understanding.  I know I must sound mean to some
people but I just don't understand all this furor over the Mill.

re: .213
>    Symbolism is important -- not just to employees, but to our customers. 
>    Now, the specific symbolism of the Mill may not be important, but many
>    customers are getting the message, based on the company's actions,
>    that the company does not place the loyalty of its workforce in very 
>    high regard.  
    
>    As a result, many of those same customers are re-examining their
>    loyalty to Digital Equipment Corporation, and wondering if they can 
>    (or should) establish a better working relationship with another 
>    vendor (or vendors).  

Says who?  You?  Manufactured facts are not facts!  The facts are that
we lost on the order of $300 million in  Q3 last year and lost
only $30 million in Q3 this year and we're expected to finally turn a profit
in Q4.  Analysts are saying (refer to an article in The Economist mentioned
elsewhere) that Digital is turning around.  Maybe it's because we have become
so efficient recently that we can lose customer confidence and sales and
still improve, but I doubt it very much.

Seperately, do you think Digital's customers look at Digital's regard
for employee loyalty as being any less than that of IBM, Wang, Prime or
any of the other myriad of large computer and non-computer companies that
have been laying off employees and selling off properties?  I don't.  I suspect
that many of our customers are doing the same thing.  Everybody's doing
exactly what they think they have to do to stay in business:  turn a profit.

Mac

Re:                  <<< Note 2429.216 by AIMHI::BOWLES >>>

>    .......And probably no one to fix it - the offices in MA are closed due
>    to that unique holiday, Patriot's Day.
    
Ah!  I'd forgotten about that.  Explains the low activity level in most notes 
conferences...

-  David

    re: .211 and many others
    
    Heather Thomas protests repeatedly that the Mill is symbolic to only a
    few, and certainly not to most Digital employees and customers
    worldwide.
    
    Hmm, _The Economist_, April 17, 1993, thinks the Mill is of interest to
    enough Britons that it's pictured in the article, and mentioned as the
    latest step in Digital's cuts under Bob Palmer.  Best quote:
    
    	"The idiosyncratic structure around Ken Olsen is being vaporised,"
    	notes William Bluestein of Forrester Research, a consultancy based
    	in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
    
    The rest of the article is full of the typical _Economist_
    perceptiveness.
    
    Wes

    
    did someone say how old is the Mill?
    
    i bet it was build in the 1700's  A.D. or something like that?
    
    thank you,
    \nasser

    The Mill was built in the 19th century; it's a fairly typical example
    of mid-century industrial architecture.
    
    					andrew

    Hi,
    
    I just can't see anyone being as attached to DECpark (REO) as they
    obviously have to the "mill".  :-)
    
    Having worked for a company which had part of its offices in a nice
    country house (many acres of land, lake, peacocks, cattle, stables,
    etc, etc - especially close to a v. good village pub), I can really
    understand the attachment people have to being in an "old" building -
    especially one were the company (almost) started from.
    
    However, when change is inevitable - we must be prepared to grieve,
    allow ourselves time to recover, and then get on with our lives.  By
    not allowing people "space" to grieve, we are only stoking up
    resentment, anger, etc, etc.
    
    In a small way, we do this in our sale team when we loose a bid. 
    Having worked b****y hard on a bid, put your whole life into it, only
    to loose - the team is devastated and needs space in which to grieve
    and recover.  Not quite the same as having to move out from your second
    home (eg: the "Mill") - but there are similarities.
    
    Live and let live.
    
    regards
    
    Chris

   > did someone say how old is the Mill?
    
   > i bet it was build in the 1700's  A.D. or something like that?
    
   > thank you,
   > \nasser
    
    
          Some quotes from the "A Walk Through The Mill" brochure,that was
    given out last year for the 100th celebration of the clock (1892-1992).
    
                " A proper tour of the Mill begins at
                  the beginning,at the river that
                  gave the mill its name and its power.
                  In 1847 Armory Maynard acquired 
                  water rights to a stretch of the Assabet
                  River and deeds to choicest land,
                  in partnership with William Knight.
                  The two designed and built a wooden
                  mill and began the buisness on manu-
                  facturing carpets and carpet yarn."
    
    
    
                " The Mill buildings date from 1846 to 1918,
                  and although the architectural styles vary,
                  the complex is unified by the red brick that 
                  extends as far as the eye can see.The oldest
                  buildings are quite plain,with shallow pitched
                  roofs.Fancy brickwork over slightly arched windows
                  is a sign of later construction."
    
    
    
                " The 19 buildings of the Mill complex are joined
                  by a network of bridges: A challenge,since floor
                  levels don't typically correspond from one building
                  to the next.Bridges slant up and down, run at odd
                  angles to the buildings they connect, and form a 
                  maze that is a test of skill to all but the 'Mill
                  Rats', the engineers who are fiercely attached to
                  their 19th century workplace."
    
    
                " In its heyday the Mill provided jobs for over
                  4000 workers.Even 10 years after the Depression,
                  the American Woolen Company employed nearly 1,500
                  workers. Today, Digital's workforce around the
                  globe far exceeds the number of workers found at 
                  the old mill during its most vigorous times."
    
                " What kept Maynard from the fate of other New
                  England mill towns? Perserverance, ingenuity, and
                  clear-eyed pragmatism.Once again Maynard is working
                  full tilt.Digital Equipment Corporation has breathed
                  new life into the MIll that has been its home since
                  1957."
     
    
    

    
    I hope when time comes to leave this facility, we will be allowed to
    bring in cameras and take a few pictures.  I doubt I'll ever work in
    a wooden structure like this again.
    
    Gary

    .-1

    Gary, can you take pictures from the Mill now but from the outside of
    it? is there you think security problems with this? i also wanted
    to take a picture of our ZKO building facility from the outside offcourse 
    to mail to my mother and father and every one so they can see where i work
    and be so proud of me and all but i did not do it because i was afraid
    to take the picture of a digital facility even from the outside, i
    thought it was illegal or something?

    \nasser

    re .225
    
    Wooden structures!  I remember the old plywood office partitions in the
    Mill.  Once when the group I was in changed buildings within the Mill,
    I came in on the weekend of the move with a hammer and crowbar.  It
    took the managers in the offices on either side of me 6 months to
    realize that my office was 3 feet wider than theirs (these were not the
    most observant guys in the world...).  And they accepted my explanation
    that it must be because I had a programmers cubicle!
    
    /Butch

I know of no restriction against taking pictures of the outside of any of
our buildings.  There *are* restrictions against bringing cameras *into*
many of the buildings.  It amazes me that security is so paranoid about
cameras, but you can walk right out with a magtape.  Talk about looking
backwards...

	Larry

>cameras, but you can walk right out with a magtape.  Talk about looking
>backwards...

    hi Larry,

    i dont think according to the procedures and regulations in place
    you are supposed to take out tapes or such mass storage media with you
    prior to previous acquisition of a clearances from the appropriate
    channels of authority. as it a matter of fact, if the security
    officers in place at the time are in full awareness of this
    circumenstances in progress they will request you to surrender such media
    until and of such a time you display to them the ammended and related 
    documents for discharge purposes of said items.

    \nasser

Excellent!  This didn't used to be the case, although it's a long time
since I've heard of its being tested.  Over the last few years, we've
carried our data on removable disk drives.  Those require property passes.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

re.209

>>	So, how will this affect Digital equipment and its customers - most of 
>>	whom don't know or care whether these activities are performed in
>>	a building that used to be a mill, or a more modern building.

	It is not whether the activities are performed in an old mill or a new
	building, it's the fact that the activities will likely no longer be 
	closely linked (tunnel access) to engineering. 

	How will it affect Digital and it's customers?
	Try time to market and extending the overall development cycle.

	The people in the mill are not being moved to a different facility of
	the same size. The plan is to place groups in existing facilities.
	The likelyhood of our engineering group being in the same location as 
	all the test labs, environmental, safety, shock and vibration is very 
	small. The inefficiency and additional time in moving equipment between 
	buildings now several miles apart becomes reality.

	
 		Dave

>	The people in the mill are not being moved to a different facility of
>	the same size. The plan is to place groups in existing facilities.
>	The likelyhood of our engineering group being in the same location as 
>	all the test labs, environmental, safety, shock and vibration is very 
>	small. The inefficiency and additional time in moving equipment between 
>	buildings now several miles apart becomes reality.


	If there are groups that need to work together, they should be together.

	I don't see what difference it makes to most of Digitals employees
	or customers whether they are together in a building that used to be a 
	mill, or a more modern building.

	Heather

    Re .231:
    
    As for lack of tunnel access slowing time-to-market and extending
    product development cycles...
    
    Digital is spending plenty of money developing networking and data
    management software products to enable concurrent engineering by widely 
    dispersed development and manufacturing teams.  The ASD/SEE offering is
    intended to enable management of large (>2M lines) software development
    projects spanning many geographies and companies.  Seems we don't
    believe in the necessity of tunnel access any more -- or at least that
    we recognize that the design and manufacturing of most products have
    become decentralized.  That's what we're telling our customers,
    anyway...
    
    Mac

When you NEED to be decentralized, it's a good idea to be able to do it
well.  Many of our customers need to carry out their work at multiple
sites.  Often we need to in Digital.  That doesn't make decentralization
what you should choose if you have a choice.

I was on a project once that spanned at least 5 groups in at least 3 widely
separated sites.  Sure we had email and notes and teleconferencing.  It
was still a lot harder (and slower) than being in the same site.  All this 
nifty technology we've got simply made it POSSIBLE.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    A notes conference has been opened at LSTARK::MILL_MEMORIES to collect
    re-use ideas for the Mill complex as well as to provide a place for
    memories of the Mill and working there.

    			Alfred

          <<< CVG::LSTARK$DKA200:[PUBLIC.NOTES]MILL_MEMORIES.NOTE;1 >>>
                     -< Uses for and memories of the Mill >-
================================================================================
Note 1.0        Welcome to the Mill Uses and Memories Conference      No replies
CVG::THOMPSON "Radical Centralist"                   38 lines   8-JUN-1993 09:38
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
Over the next two years, Digital will be relocating out of the 
Maynard Mill complex.  The company is looking for reuses of the 
facility which will be good for the community and good for the 
local economy.  At the same time we want to preserve and 
celebrate the memories and traditions that have been associated 
with these unique buildings.

Established by the Mill Relocation Task Force, this notes file is 
intended as an open forum for discussion of suggested reuses of 
the Mill and suggested activities to preserve and celebrate Mill 
memories.  It is also a place to gather the Mill-related 
recollections of all Digital employees.  

This is not the place to discuss details of the relocation as it 
unfolds.  Since that will happen business by business over many 
months and since those plans will be subject to constant revision 
to meet changing business needs, your managers should be your 
main source of information about space allocation and schedule.

Please post your ideas and recollections as replies to the topics 
established here.  This structure will make the file easier for 
all to read and will help avoid duplication.  It also will help 
jog your memories and stimulate creative thinking that could 
actually be put into action.

If you have friends who are retirees or who recently left the 
company, please ask them for their input as well and enter their 
contributions for them.

Members of the committee will read this file, but will not have 
time to respond individually to your suggestions. The most 
promising ideas will be discussed at regular meetings, and 
decisions regarding future action will be posted here.

Thank you for your cooperation and creativity.

          <<< CVG::LSTARK$DKA200:[PUBLIC.NOTES]MILL_MEMORIES.NOTE;1 >>>
                     -< Uses for and memories of the Mill >-
================================================================================
Note 2.1                    Conference Announcements                      1 of 1
CVG::THOMPSON "Radical Centralist"                   10 lines   7-SEP-1993 15:09
                       -< DNS object name now available >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A DNS object name has been created for this conference. In the event
    that this conference ever moves, if you use the DNS object, you should
    never have to update your notebook entry to find this conference.
    That's the theory anyway. :-) It seems to work fairly well in practice.

    The DNS name for this conference is:

	.easynote.confs.other.mill_memories 

    			Alfred

The Wang towers in Lowell, one and a half million square feet of modern
high rise office buildings, located at the intersection of two major highways,
went at auction the other day for just over $500,000 dollars, or "the price 
of two ordinary single family homes [in this part of the country]."

What might this say about the marketability of a similarly sized, 
substantially older (but well-maintained and improved) complex
within 20 miles of the towers, with no access to major highways?

- tom]

(The Wang towers are reported to need $2 million to $3 million per year
for utilities, taxes, maintenance, security, and the like, so the half-million
purchase price will soon fade into the noise from the buyer's point of view.)

    Yeah, but the Mill has character. :-)

    		Alfred

       More on the Wang towers:  they were built at a cost of $80 Million
    and are appraised for $20 Million for tax purposes.When the auctioneer
    was asked about the price he said it was fair, it is what the market
    will bear. The person who bid on the complex, was escorted out the back
    door away from reporters. So, it is not sure who actually bought it.
    
      Hey, wouldn't they make nice luxury apartments/condos?
    
                                Rich

    I figure it's a good news/bad news deal.  The good news is, you just
    bought the property for only $500K!  The bad news is, your payments
    work out to be about $3M per year for the foreseeable future ...  
    Makes it sound basically like an easy to get, infinite-year loan with 
    600% interest and no prepayment option, if we're talking single-family
    homes.  The other good news is, the rate is pretty much fixed ...
    
    ;^)
    
    Steve

    Wang towers, the stuff of legends, is gone?  I worked on Wang hardware
    and closely with Wang itself in the early eighties, when they were
    hot-hot-hot since they actually had computerized multi-user
    word-processing (that by today's standards, looks a lot like entering
    hieroglyphics with a vt100, but anyway...).
    
    I think Fred Ong was at the wheel back then, steering it down a
    co-axial connection course into a rigid OS, where it got hulled and
    began sinking.  There was an adventure game called "Wang Towers",
    wherein the computers had taken over earth and you had to get the final
    junk mail list of humans from the ruins of the tower to save the world.
    
    FWIW, Wang and Digital have similarities to me.  They were heavily
    concentrated in the high-cost northeast (obviously not so high cost
    now, 'eh?), had distinctive headquarters (Mill/Towers), expanded
    rapidly, had excellent employees, began a downward spiral, and began
    going through reorganizations.  Often-times, in the latter days, a
    sales rep announcing a reorg to a large user's group would find that,
    upon returning to his office, another one had taken place in his
    absence, completely invalidating his announcement.
    
    A product/service was "spotlighted", much money put towards its
    development/sale, then dropped, leaving the few customers who bought it
    feeling very alienated.  I did several Wang to Dec conversions back in
    those days after I thought I had left the Wang arena.
    
    I feel some heartstrings pulled, knowing the fate of the Towers and
    those whose working life was led in their shadow.  I've run into
    several ex-Wang people here at Digital.
    
    Maybe someone should study what happened.  To misquote: "Those who
    don't study history are doomed to repeat it.".

So with Wang gone shouldn't we be using the term Wung?

;^)

Wang the company is not gone.  It in fact is showing a profit.  It's the
Wang towers that were sold, but the company had abandoned them already.

I was amused by a comment in the Globe article about the Wang towers sale;
the article mentioned that Digital was moving out of the Mill and that IBM was
considering leaving Armonk, and then the writer made some comment about
companies realizing that posh top-floor executive offices were no longer an
appropriate image.  I said to myself that the writer has obviously never
been to the Mill...

				Steve

>Wang the company is not gone.  It in fact is showing a profit.  It's the
>Wang towers that were sold, but the company had abandoned them already.

I believe Wang is still in the towers -- part of the deal is that the new
owner has to lease part of them to Wang for 6-12 months.  The Globe says
Wang "is abandoning" the towers, not that they have abandoned them.

Re: yearly costs

> (The Wang towers are reported to need $2 million to $3 million per year
> for utilities, taxes, maintenance, security, and the like, so the half-million
> purchase price will soon fade into the noise from the buyer's point of view.)

>    I figure it's a good news/bad news deal.  The good news is, you just
>    bought the property for only $500K!  The bad news is, your payments
>    work out to be about $3M per year for the foreseeable future ...  
>    Makes it sound basically like an easy to get, infinite-year loan with 
>    600% interest and no prepayment option, if we're talking single-family
>    homes.  The other good news is, the rate is pretty much fixed ...
    

I would assume that the $2M to $3M per year to maintain the building
refers to the occupied building (utilities, maintenance, security, etc.).
That occupation will bring income to offset the costs, so I wouldn't quite
put it the way Steve did. Of course, taxes must be paid regardless of
occupation.

It sounds like a steal to me.

/Mitch

    
    <the article mentioned that Digital was moving out of the Mill
    
    	Moving out??? Every day I see more and more new groups moving IN.
                                                    
    	Whats the true story on this? Are we closing the Mill down or
    	not? I've heard talk of keeping just a couple building open.

	Heard at dinner one night:

	"What's the difference between Wang and Digital?"

	"Oh, about 5 years"

						mike

    re .247
    
    Hundreds of folks have moved into the mill recntly, and many more are
    just moving around the mill.  Seems like we're getting ready for a
    long summer next to the pond 8^)
    
    Mark
    

The new rumor is that someone has made an offer on the Mill and they are 
trying to scrable around and figure a way of getting everyone out by June.

mc

    So they're, in effect, "Milling around?"  
    
    					:^]   Brent

Worldwide News                                              LIVE WIRE
 
 Office of the President moves to MSO2 ...                   Date: 23-Mar-1994
 

           Office of the President moves to MSO2 facility this fall

          Digital will move the Office of the President to the MSO2
   facility in Maynard this fall as part of its announced intention to
   close the Mill.

          Last April, Digital announced its intention to close the 1.1
   million square foot, 19th-century structure and relocate the businesses
   to other eastern Massachusetts Digital sites.

          The Office of the President will occupy part of the second floor
   of the three-story MSO2 building, which opened in 1991.  The facility
   is located off Powdermill Road at the eastern end of Maynard.  Digital
   offices in the MSO2 space are being moved in April to allow for the
   modifications, according to Nancy Salustro, Mill Re-use manager.
                
          The Mill closing is part of the overall New England real estate
   consolidation program.  Since FY90, more than 7 million square feet of
   building space has been closed for a savings to Digital of more than
   $140 million annually.

    Has Lucente picked out a parking space yet?  ;-)

    Guards are useually well informed. When I was at the Mill a couple of
    weeks ago, he claimed that certain groups move INTO the Mill. He also
    said that Digital would not be able to sell it because nobody would
    want it.
    
    Henny Olthof, The Netherlands

    In my presence, a main Board Director of the UK's largest company told
    his Chairman:
    
        "If you really want to understand DEC,you HAVE to visit the Mill"
    
    This was when when we were making $100M from this account. The demise
    of the Mill, I guess, is part of the rites of passage from the old DEC
    to the new maroon Digital.
    
    
    A bit sad though.
    
    :-((
    
    John

re Note 2429.255 by CHEFS::HEELAN:

>         "If you really want to understand DEC,you HAVE to visit the Mill"
  
        Will it be possible to understand DEC (excuse me, Digital)
        once the Mill is closed?

        Bob

        P.S.  For a limited time only -- if you want to visit the
        future site of the Presidential suite, come visit me in MSO2!

    Yeah Bob, rumor hath it that he's only taking over your cubie because
    he wants as little hassle as possible when he goes out Web-surfing.
    
    Boy, will HE be surprised! :-)
    

    He just wants that great view of the parking lot :-)
    
    Does BP know how to Web-surf ?????????????????
    
    Dave V

    Maybe we can come full-circle. You know,rent bits and pieces of the
    mill to "start-ups" like we were doing way back when.
    
    Ken

    Press KP7 to add to your NOTES$NOTEBOOK...
    

        Franklin Lifecare Corp. to purchase Digital's Mill complex
   
         Franklin Lifecare Corp. and Digital today announced that they 
   have signed a purchase and sale agreement for the Mill complex located 
   at 146 Main Street in Maynard, Mass. 
         Franklin Lifecare Corp. is a for-profit, Massachusetts-based 
   company that was formed specifically to create an integrated elder care 
   campus at the Mill site. 
         The campus, which will be renamed Mill Pond Village, is expected 
   to be developed in accordance with a master plan that would ultimately 
   provide housing, health care, education and medical research services 
   for the elderly. The development of Mill Pond Village is projected to 
   take five years and cost between $20 million and $50 million.
         Digital and Franklin Lifecare expect to close on the purchase of 
   the site by early November. Current Mill employees will continue to be 
   relocated to other Digital-owned facilities with the expectation that 
   two-thirds of the Mill will be vacated by the end of December.  The 
   company has arranged to lease back space from Franklin Lifecare during 
   the interim.
         "The Mill has played an important role in the history of both the 
   town of Maynard and Digital," said Nancy Salustro, Digital's Mill Reuse 
   Program manager. "It has had two full and useful business lives: first, 
   as a source of production for the Assabet Mills and American Woolen 
   Co. and second, as headquarters for Digital Equipment Corp.  We are 
   pleased that this ambitious project will introduce yet another use for 
   these buildings."
         Anthony J. Bongiorno, president and CEO of Franklin Lifecare 
   Corp. commented, "We are very excited to have acquired the Mill 
   property for this development. The principals of Franklin Lifecare 
   bring years of experience and expertise in the areas of real estate 
   development and construction, project financing and health care 
   services to this project. But just as important, we are an organization 
   composed of individuals with roots in this area. As a result, we are 
   sensitive to the traditional values and needs of the town of Maynard 
   and we are proud to embark upon this project that will bring a new use 
   to the Mill site by creating a residential village that will also serve 
   as a center for a continuum of specialized elder services." 















                       FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
 
    

    I wonder what we got for it?

    So, basically the mill will be full of old people: disoriented, 
    not really sure what they're doing;  people that time has passed 
    by - people who know things that no one wants to know anymore; people 
    who are no longer productive, just serving out 'their time'.

    It will be sort of hard to tell when the actual transition
    takes place.

Yeah, us folks in the Mill are all old fogeys, disoriented, not really
sure what we're doing, yeah that's it...

Now which group of folks was it that developed the DEC 3000 line,
and the kick-ass 2100 server?  Oh yeah... we're just serving out our
time, yeah, that's it....

    re: .265
    
    What? No sense of humor, either?

Not being a milrat I always had a hard time finding my way in the mill complex.
Imagine the poor elderly that move into it .. or the nurse on-duty that tries
to follow the color-coding on the walls to find the patient that rang the
bell .. or relatives that come to visit and wander off into never-never land...

>Per

    
    ref -1
    
      Apparently you have never been in a Metro - Hospital...
    
    bc
    

    it would seem that LEEL::LINDQUIST thinks only very senior managers sit
    (or have ever sat) in the mill; I only wish I was paid enough to agree.
    
    While a resident of the mill, I led the teams that produced the
    VAX4000-400/500/600, and the DECpc AXP/150. I hope those products were
    of at least some value to the company.
    
    ...tom
    

    	I'll miss working here in the Mill. I still get a kick out of
    people getting lost here. I never could understand why some needed
    maps.
    
    	The Mill is like the maze in DOOM, right?   	8>)

No, like in ADVENTURE.

			Steve

re Note 2429.269 by LEEL::LINDQUIST and Note 2429.265 by WRKSYS::DUTTON:

        I think the Mill was and still is an excellent environment
        for engineers.  By far my most productive time as an engineer
        in Digital was the time I worked in the Mill.  It is both
        inspiring and recreational to that kind of person.

        I would love to work there again;  it would be a good place
        for a third industrial revolution -- but only if populated by
        revolutionaries!

        I am not so sure that the environment of the Mill sits well
        with executives, lawyers, accountants, and non-technical
        overhead folks.

        Bob

    
    I spend a month there, and my impression is that its
    too antiquated and the physical plant isn't up to 
    the standards of dependability needed to compete.
    
    SGI and Sun campuses are modern and aren't plagued
    with power and HVAC problems.
    
    It's good that Digital will be out of the Mill in
    my view.

	The mill was Digital and vice versa.  I can not think about Digital
	without fond memories of it.  My first training classes were in
	building 11, and it was quite a trek to eat lunch.  The long production
	lines were impressive to see.  It was exciting to just "get lost" and
	explore all the many different things going on.  The mill was also
	something no other computer manufacture had.  I will be sad to see it
	go, but I guess that is just one of the new changes that must be gone
	through.

    
    The Mill was (and I believe still is) more condusive to enginering work
    than the sterile atmospheres of the new plants. 
    
    	Long live the memories of the Mill....
    
    ed

  I have mixed feelings about the work environment of the Mill. I think that
for the Digital (product line and people) of the 1960's and 1970's, the
Mill was a much better place to work than the sterile, boxy facilities that
most other high-tech companies were and are in. However, with the stuff we
are doing now, the power glitches, unlevel floors, dust, inefficient layout 
of space, etc. are a problem.
  Is someone going to walk thru the Mill with a camcorder and record it for
posterity? There isn't much time left.  

    .277
    
    Great idea!
    
    I hope someone does this!

>          <<< Note 2429.274 by CALDEC::RAH "Don't fear the reaper." >>>
>    
>    I spend a month there, and my impression is that its
>    too antiquated and the physical plant isn't up to 
>    the standards of dependability needed to compete.
>    
>    SGI and Sun campuses are modern and aren't plagued
>    with power and HVAC problems.

I don't know when you spent your month there, or in what part of the Mill.
I spent nearly 11 years there, from late 1977 to late 1988.
I'd go back in a minute.  After the major renovations in the early '80s,
there were no systematic problems with power and HVAC.
The new windows and the membrane roof kept the inside in and the outside out.
The centralized HVAC kept a more uniform, comfortable temperature
than either the small (DSG) or large (MRO) facilities I've been in since.

Some people are prejudiced for the Mill, some against.
There's little doubt that it's unique among high-tech work space.
Whether it's more comfortable for techies than others is arguable.

But it's gone, and I take that as a loss.

- tom]

    Last night I was speaking with an aquaintance who's son works
    for Digital.  She said he had just been moved into the mill.
    It seems DEC is now renting space from the new owners.  Anybody
    else hear anything about this?

    RE: .280
    
    Yup, I believe Digital is now in 1 building, not sure of the building
    number.
    
    I believe that was part of the plan that Digital would rent/lease space
    from the new owners until we could vacate completely.
    
    kjg
    

    re: last couple
    
    Yes, Digital is leasing MLO5 for a period of 18 months. My group and I
    were just moved from MRO1 into the Mill last week. This is supposed to
    be a temporary stop on our way to Littleton. 
    
    Ken....
    

    
       The State Attorney General's office tossed out the Town of Maynard's
     changes with respect to the Mill re-zone (Health/Industrial District)
     on procedural and substantive grounds.
    
       I think the procedural error was corrected, but there is concern
     about discrimination due to the age 55 or over wording?? The Town is
     also concerned with the viability of Covenents.
    
       I think Franklin LifeCare (FLC) had about 24 hours to re-submit a
     re-worded proposal for Town Meeting in May or else they'll have to
     wait till the Fall  (in the meantime more businesses leave Maynard).
    
       Mark

    	Did the Acoustics engineering group also move out? What was the
    final outcome of the anechoic chamber? Anyone know?
    
    bc

    re: .284 (acoustics engineering)
    
    We're still here, testing away (almost) as usual.  Actually, with the
    population in the complex down to what it is, we have less background
    noise to interfere with our measurements so we do an even better job
    than ever!
    
    Seriously, the plans are to move the acoustics services to PK2 later
    this month.  We will not have the exact same test facilities as in the
    mill...our reverberation room will be sorely missed, for example.  But
    we plan on providing the same level of services as always, just using
    slightly different technology.  We look forward to being sited so
    closely with our brethren mechanical technologies, to facilitate
    communications with them, and to help make it easier for our customers
    to do business with TCS.
    
    Bring us those machines to quiet!
    
    PS Bob, the check is in the mail for bringing this to everyone's
    attention!

I just checked this thread because I drove past the Mill this morning, and
there is a "Space Available" sign on the fence in front, with a phone
number. (Sorry, but I didn't write down the phone number.)  Since no one
added any mention of it to this note, I thought that it was an interesting
addition to the story.

	-ken