Conference 7.286::digital

    Business Week: August 21, 1995
    Department: Information Processing: COMPUTERS
    GLITCHES IN THE SYSTEM AT DEC
    PC profits have dried up amid factory and management woes
    
    Digital Equipment Corp. just can't seem to get all of its engines
    firing together. A year ago, even as the company's mainstay
    minicomputer business crumbled, it could at least point to soaring
    personal-computer sales. Now, just as mini sales are perking up, the
    $1.8 billion PC unit is losing ground.
       Some sure signs of trouble: For the quarter ended July 1, PC sales
    gains slowed to a 20% year-over-year increase, down from 100% in each
    of the prior three quarters. Market researcher Dataquest Inc. says
    Digital's rank in the worldwide PC market has dropped a notch since
    last year, to 12th place, with just a 2.3% share of the market (chart).
    PC profits dried up in the latest quarter, and despite a drive to add
    nationwide PC retailers, DEC's sales expansion has trailed rivals. Weak
    PC results contributed to a 4.3% decline in the company's overall sales
    for the quarter, to $3.75 billion.
       Earnings were reported on Aug. 1, and reaction was swift. On Aug. 3,
    the unit's president, Bernhard Auer, and its chief financial officer,
    John Millerick, ``resigned to pursue other plans,'' as a spokeswoman
    put it. Both Auer and Millerick declined comment.
    SHORT-LIVED SUN. The turnabout is painful for a company that seemed
    finally to be moving away from the sidelines of the computer industry.
    Digital's high-flying PC business had the company poised to break into
    the top tier of PC makers. Under Systems Business Unit Vice-President
    Enrico Pesatori, a former Zenith Data Systems Corp. executive, it
    successfully reentered the retail PC market it had abandoned in the
    1980s. Auer, a former Compaq Computer Corp. executive, took over
    Pesatori's PC duties last May when Pesatori was promoted.
       But Auer's days in the sun were short-lived. Delays dogged a hot new
    notebook launch, and the unit failed to recruit new retail chains.
    Meanwhile, the division's profitability slipped as a result of delays
    in installing a much-needed financial system for tracking sales and
    inventory. Says an executive close to the company: ``The momentum
    Enrico established did not keep going.'' 
       Digital certainly couldn't sustain its biggest shot at a PC
    breakthrough. Last November, the Hi Note PC, Digital's first notebook
    line, won raves as the star of the fall COMDEX computer show. But
    manufacturing delays left the company unable to deliver product until
    this year. Market researcher WorkGroup Technologies Corp., which last
    year projected DEC's notebook sales rising to as much as 400,000 units,
    has now halved its forecast to no more than 200,000.
       Digital's retail expansion sagged under Auer as well. He managed to
    recruit regional chains such as the Northeast's Nobody Beats The Wiz,
    but he signed up just one nationwide chain--Incredible Universe.
    Granted, the competition for key retailers is intense. Hewlett-Packard
    Co. recently added eight nationwide chains to its list, and IBM is
    focusing attention on retail with its new consumer PC division. ``It
    has been a little tougher than [Digital] thought it would be,'' says
    Casey Dworkin, president of consultant Personal Technology Research
    Inc.
       Pesatori, back as acting president of the PC unit, needs to work his
    old magic. The first step: Get DEC in on the anticipated fall upsurge
    in consumer purchases. That's when PC makers do some 40% of their
    business. He must quickly sign up big consumer chains such as Computer
    City and Sears, Roebuck & Co. DEC's notebooks need a makeover, too. The
    486 line looks dowdy alongside Pentium notebooks from competitors. DEC
    is hoping to reinvigorate its Hi-Note line this fall with Pentium
    chips.
       Pesatori's best chance for quick results is Digital's PC-server
    business. The company recently signed an alliance with software giant
    Microsoft Corp. that makes it the preferred service provider for
    Windows NT, a popular operating system for PC networks. If he can
    quickly boost sales of high-margin servers, Pesatori could return the
    PC division to the black in short order. Analysts say the unit's stall
    need not turn into a crash--if Pesatori can place Digital's onetime
    star back in a leading role.
    
    
    By Gary McWilliams in Houston, with Geoffrey Smith in Boston
    
    Copyright 1995 The McGraw-Hill Companies All rights reserved. Any use
    is subject to (1) terms and conditions of this service and (2) rules
    stated under ``Read This First'' in the ``About Business Week'' area.
    
    
    
    
    Transmitted: 95-08-10 17:14:02 EDT (B343897)

    We sold off the PC direct sales group to PC
    Complete.  I can only hope that now that some other company is "DEC" to
    the phone-order-world doesn't result in the following conversation...
    
    "sure I can price that Digital PC for you but I can offer you a 
    Packard Bell for $250 less..."
    
    Even we aren't pushing the PCs no wonder we can't get anyone else to
    either.
    
    Ira
    
    PS. The piece I don't understand is I just bought a Starion P90 from
    CompUSA and I bought it because it was the best deal they had based on
    price/performance.  It, sitting next to a Packard Bell made the PB look
    like junk and the PBs sell like hot cakes. We just don't get no respect!  
    

    I can only speak from a little personal experience and observation.
    In my personal experience,the Hinote is a pup- this view is partially
    reflected in the press and internally.It came 15th out of 50 recently
    surveyed in the French press for example and they claimed it to be
    overpriced.This is a detail however.
    The distribution strategy of PCs is interesting to say the
    least.Approach a large distributor and he will tell you he already has
    5 PC lines-why take on a 6th unless there is a massive incentive.The
    massive incentive is either discount(=we lose money) or the product
    sells itself in volume due to the pull created by Digital.
    Creating pull can be achieved a number of ways.Advertising is
    one.Discounting is another.Mail order sale is another etc etc.Ensuring
    that Digital sells direct to large accounts is about the only one which
    is not considered since it 'conflicts with channels'.All the other
    methods have been tried and fail to some degree for reasons due to the
    market dynamics.
    In the PC market you go up or out but never down.My remedy?Sell direct
    in volume agressively and sell via mail order only.The channels will
    come later when they see the demand created by us directly.This is heresy
    I know but consider the alternatives.
    Either we try to create volume in channels who demand discounts which
    create a loss for us-short term it can be done but I think we have had
    our short term-or we get out of the business sooner rather than later and
    only keep the server line.
    Discuss

Official response:
    
                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     16-Aug-1995 02:11pmBST
                                        From:     PCBU Marketing
                                                  PCBU@A1@SALES@AKO
                                        Dept:      
                                        Tel No:    
                                        Doc No:   019332

TO: See Below

Subject: PC News Brief #96N-004, Aug. 16, 1995                                  2




Distribution:
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                             PC NEWS BRIEF
                             >>>>>>>>>>>>>
             News for selling Digital PCs into the Americas
             ==============================================
  Issue #96N-004				    August 16, 1995
  
  
  
  			TABLE OF CONTENTS
     	  							  Page
    
     >> Positioning the August 21st BUSINESS WEEK article .......   1 
     >> Digital officially off Gartner Group's Financial Watch...   3 
     >> Compaq still suffers product shortages and problems .....   3 
     >> Windows 95 and PC market growth .........................   3 
     >> Digital PC/Microsoft ad campaign debuts August 24 .......   3 
  
  
  POSITIONING THE AUGUST 21 BUSINESS WEEK ARTICLE
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  The current issue of BUSINESS WEEK, August 21, 1995, includes an 
  article on page 76 about Digital's PC business.  The article is the 
  reporter's interpretation of the management changes made by the 
  business unit on August 3.
  
  It is important to note that the premise of the article is based on 
  inaccurate information. This information is provided to help you 
  respond to questions that you may receive from customers and channel 
  partners.
  
  THE ARTICLE STATES:  "Market researcher Dataquest Inc. says Digital's 
  rank in the worldwide PC market has dropped a notch since last year, 
  to 12th place..."
  
  Public relations did a fact check on the claim.  Dataquest confirmed 
  that Digital remains in the #11 position in worldwide PC sales, and 
  told us they did not tell BUSINESS WEEK Digital had dropped to the 
  #12 position.
  
  THE ARTICLE STATES: that Digital PC sales gains slowed to a 20% year-
  over-year increase, down from 100% in each of the prior three 
  quarters.
  
  The facts are that for a number of quarters Digital's PC growth has 
  been under 100% due to the large size of our growing base.  In 
  Quarter 3, the company publicly stated PC revenue growth was 60% over 
  the same quarter in the previous year.  The article omitted the fact 
  that for the entire fiscal year, PC growth was 56%.
  
  THE ARTICLE STATES: that Digital failed to recruit new retail chains 
  and signed up just one nationwide chain, Incredible Universe. In 
  addition to Incredible Universe, Digital has been successfully doing 
  business with national chains CompUSA and Sam's Club since November 
  of 1994.  Digital has also signed up PCs Compleat and regional chains 
  like ABC Warehouse, Alaska Computer Brokers, Brandsmart, Computer 
  Discount Warehouse, Elek-Tek, Frys Electronics, J&R Computerworld, Ks 
  Merchandise, Lechmere, Nobody Beats the Wiz, RC Willey, Rockwell, 
  State Street Discount and Sun TV.  Many industry analysts and 
  financial analysts give us credit for our publicly stated strategy of 
  careful, measured expansion into the retail segment.
  
  OTHER FACTS to keep in mind if questioned about this article:
  
  Digital's HiNote line of notebook computers offer PC buyers the most 
  innovative products and services on the market and are competing very 
  well in the market segments they address.  According to Stamford 
  Research, in the first quarter of 1995 Digital is leading the Light 
  Notebook category with 16.1 percent market share.  In the second 
  quarter of 1995, Dataquest ranks Digital at #5 for notebook market 
  share in Europe.  Digital's HiNote line continues to receive rave 
  reviews around the world: the Digital HiNote Ultra received raves in 
  the June issue of PC LAPTOP, and the September issue of PC MAGAZINE 
  in the U.K. featured the Digital HiNote on the cover, and awarded it 
  Editors' Choice over 17 other popular notebooks.  We have a great 
  story to tell and have aggressive marketing programs to stimulate 
  sales.
  
  Digital has completed its Prioris portfolio of outstanding PC-class 
  servers, which also are garnering editorial raves:  PC MAGAZINE's  
  Editors' Choice award on June 27 (reprint order #EC-Y5394-69), SCO 
  WORLD's Top of the World award in the July issue (reprint order 
  #EC-Y5395-69), and COMMUNICATIONS WEEK's rating of The Ultimate 
  Server on July 31 (reprint in process).  Microsoft has selected 
  Digital Prioris servers to power their Windows 95 on-line launch 
  event, and the Digital/ Microsoft Alliance for the Enterprise will 
  make a dramatic impact on marketing Digital PC server products and 
  services for enterprise-wide client/server solutions.  In addition to 
  Windows NT Server and Workstation, Prioris PC servers are tested and 
  certified with all other major network operating systems, including 
  Novell NetWare, Novell UNIXWare, SCO Unix, SCO ODT, Windows for 
  Workgroups, OS/2 LANServer, Digital PATHWORKS, and Banyan VINES.
  
  Next week, in conjunction with the launch of Windows 95, Digital is 
  announcing additional leadership systems in our popular line-up of 
  quality desktop PCs that optimize Windows 95 for both the retail and 
  commercial markets.  Industry analysts and early reviewers are 
  impressed with our new models -- all based on Pentium processors.  
  Shortly, we will be announcing, in conjunction with our colleagues in 
  the Systems Business Unit, a set of personal workstation-class 
  machines that optimize Windows NT, on both Intel and Alpha platforms.
  
  In summary, like any other PC company, we do face many challenges in 
  this highly competitive marketplace.  We are confident that we have 
  the programs, people, and channel partners necessary to continue to 
  move forward in market share by providing PC buyers with the best 
  possible products and services, at affordable prices.
  
  
  GARTNER GROUP OFFICIALLY REMOVES DIGITAL FROM FINANCIAL              
  PROBLEM WATCH STATUS
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  In June, Digital PC public relations department sent out notification 
  that the PC practice of Gartner Group had decided to remove Digital 
  from Financial Problem Watch, a status imposed on Digital approxi-
  mately one year ago due to the company's financial condition.  Last 
  month when that notification was sent, Gartner had sent us a fax that 
  stated they would be upgrading our status and agreed we could share 
  the fax with anyone who requested it.
  
  Gartner Group informed us last Friday that they are in the process of 
  publishing a research note with a Financial Problem Watch update, 
  which will include an official upgrade to our status.  Although the 
  research note will not be in the hands of their clients for a number 
  of weeks, Gartner has agreed to send a copy of the document to any of 
  our customers who request it.  All requests should be handled through 
  Sue Waluck at DTN 244-7994 (508-264-7994).
  
  COMPAQ STILL SUFFERS
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  Computer Reseller News, July 12, quotes a Houston VAR, "Compaq 
  Pentium desktops are hard to find.  I can't get systems through July.  
  This could be tough for Compaq.  My customers want it now.  If I 
  can't deliver in five days, then forget it."  The article further 
  states that this "could make it harder for Compaq to maintain loyalty 
  among resellers and customers."  Here's your chance to satisfy the 
  needs of customers who want Pentium systems now.  Promote Digital 
  Pentium systems like the Venturis Pentiums NOW.
  
  WINDOWS 95 AND PC MARKET GROWTH
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  
  Dataquest's Martin Reynolds, who looks at how new technologies will 
  impact the PC has said that Windows 95 offers offers integrated 
  device drivers that will make it much simpler to connect to Ethernet 
  and other networks without specialized network cards.  Support for 
  TAPI, the telephony interface, will make it simpler for desktops to 
  handle e-mail, fax, and voice storage.
  
  Dataquest is revising its forecast for PC market growth upward this 
  year, largely due to Windows 95 optimism.  
  
  DIGITAL/MICROSOFT AD CAMPAIGN
  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  The Digital PC Business Unit is producing a joint advertising 
  campaign with Microsoft, which will debut on August 24 to coincide 
  with the announcements of Microsoft Windows 95 and a new Digital 
  desktop PC which has been engineered to take full advantage of 
  Windows 95.
  
  The campaign will consist of three strategic directions:
  
  1.  PCs designed for Windows 95
  2.  Complete Microsoft Windows service and support from Digital
  3.  Full product line complements from Microsoft and Digital
  
  The ads will run through the fall in various business and VAR 
  publications.
  
  ##end##
  
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	Is it because you should be looking for Digital? :)

	I suspect you'll see a bunch of adverts on or around Aug 24th.
	We've got a whole new line coming out from what's been said.

						mike

What's this "nationwide chain" Incredible Universe?  What regions is it in?

Incredible Universe (if memory serves) is owned by Tandy.  I think they
currently have 7 stores nationwide, and will expand to 11 by the end of the
year.  We have one here in Denver that just opened.  The store is huge; they
have all manner of stuff, from appliances (large and small) to very high end
electronics, and of course computers; printers, software, CD's, parts, etc
(McDonalds too).  They also (usually) have pretty good prices (HP Deskjet 660
for $363).  The salespeople are refered to as "cast members," and they do put on
a pretty good show.

Opening day here in Denver was simply unreal; the parking lot was full twice
over.  I understand the wait at the checkout line was in excess of 2 hours.
I forget how many people went through the doors, but it was some incredible
number.

fwiw,
--Scott

    Incredible Universe is a super store for electronics and applicances
    and and and and ...  It is owned by Tandy (Radio Shack, Computer City). 
    There is one on the south side of Denver.  
    
    The store is big and noisy.  I found it an interesting place but too
    confusing to buy and their prices weren't great.  Did see Digital
    computers!
    

    Nobody Beats the Wiz has a 75 mhz Pentium chip, 840 mb hard drive,
    double speed cd, 16 bit sound card & speakers, fax modem w/ answering
    machine for $1899.96 + $800.00 FREE soft ware (free windows upgrade
    95.) This is N.J.-N.Y. area. 

    .9> Did see Digital computers!
    
    were they ours??
    
    Oh, you used a capital D.  Alles klar.
    
    :-)
    

    .10
    Is a Digital system.
    Sorry< I forgot to mention this.

I can't remember where, but I saw a noter who seemed to be in marketing
say that advertising was on hiatus for now while we come up with a new
campaign or something...

IMO, this is absolutely the lamest thing I have ever heard in my life...

Funny, the customer isn't on hiatus...I myself am gonna make a move here pretty
soon and buy a Pentium system...looking in the PC rags, I don't even know
who Digital is...much less that we are a player in the consumer PC market.

C'mon, this ain't rocket science...it's easy...everytime Compaq and HP run
an add anywhere...run one too.

Huh, last night on NBC(I think) there was a prime time television show dedicated
to what the future holds technology-wise hosted by LL Cool J of all people.
Wonder how a PC ad in that slot would affect sales?

And has anybody stopped to think that the customer needs and *introduction* to
Digital??  We that niave as to think the PC buyer knows who we are?

"We're Digital Equipment Corporation, and we've been building systems since
blah blah blah blah blah...so if your looking for quality in your next Personal
Computer, come to the people who wrote the book on 'Digital' computing!"

Naahhhhhh!! Too straight forward....would never work!!

Geez!!

-Stephen

    
    re>. 13
    
    I said that the Corporate Advertising Campaign is on hiatus for a Fall
    Launch.  I also said that SBU is running full throttle in their
    advertising program, with several other BU campaigns also running.
    
    
    Bill
    

Not slamming you personally Bill...

I can certainly understand a time-out...but in this game, it better be
quick...

The competition isn't slowing down to wait for us to catch up.

-Stephen

>>> Nobody Beats the Wiz has a 75 mhz Pentium chip...

Notice that they didn't mention anything about L2 cache!  Most (all?) of 
Digital PCs include 256K or 512K of L2 cache.

Using the Mhz. rating as the only indication of system performance is 
sucker bait.  But since all the other PC manufactures take advantage of 
consumer ignorance, maybe Digital should join in the advertizing tactic.

Let the buyer beware!


							-Paul
 

    re: .16
    
    Like the 486 Starions we sold without any L2 cache?
    
    Bob

Or the Pentium Starions we sold (and will be selling) with no L2 cache
(in the lower-price models).

				Steve

    Did I read that official reply right? Business Week says Digital was
    doing great in PCs last year but now isn't doing (growing, ranked) so
    well. Our official reply is that actually we haven't been doing that
    well for quite a while.
    
    That's a response?

    The article did indeed claim 100% growth (qtr-vs-year-ago-qtr)
    for each of the last three quarters, which was in error.  Please
    note that the PCBU's growth has kept pace with Alpha growth, and
    considering the immense amount of money and people on the Alpha
    side relative to the PCBU, isn't too shabby.  So please dis the
    Alpha folks with equal or greater abandon. ;-) .02 Kratz 

    
    	WHAT?????
    
    	You are actually equating PC growth with Alpha growth.
    
    	Before anybody else gets as nuts as I find this remark, let's look
    at a fact here. PCs are growing in the US at an *industry* rate of 25%
    annually. All other computers (including our beloved workstations) less
    than 10% (as a whole).
    
    	If the PCBU is NOT growing at 2.5 TIMES the Alpha rate, you are
    missing the boat; hell, you ain't even on the dock.
    
    	Don't tell me spin doctoring and damage control has now become
    part and parcel of the PC group, too..
    
    	
    		the Greyhawk

    Peter,
    All I'm doing is comparing the percentages used in the last
    several quarterly announcements.  Both Alpha and PC's have
    had similiar growth up to the current $2.B each.
    
    If you'd like, why don't you check out PowerPC growth (easily
    several hundred percent qtr-vs-year-ago-qtr), which seems to
    beat your rest of the industry "10%" by a few orders of magnitude.
    Kratz

    There does seem to be a lot of spin doctoring around this issue.The
    'facts' may be that our numbers are defendable but there are far to
    many warning signs to be complacent.Every day I see someone announcing
    another x% cut in prices.This is no big deal if we are all at the same
    point in technology development and HAVE NO STOCK.But we do seem to
    have stock-either ourselves or in channels(with some degree of
    protection too)-so the bottom line is that every competitive price
    reduction hits us hard and us reducing our prices is no defence-we
    simply do not have the volume to play the game properly yet and it is a
    big investment and risk to try.We seem to have decided to try and I
    hope we succeed.
    The other issues I notice are the bids we respond to.Loads of client
    want PCs but not Digital ones-don't know why but there could be lots of
    explanations.
    I also notice channels not wanting to carry our stock and I notice
    massive discounting in Channels and via Digital.All good competitive
    stuff but what about the margin?At what volume point is the margin we
    make insufficient to cover the operating costs and lost opportunity
    costs associated with the investments in plant and development.I do not
    know and I would not expect a clear answer from other than out chief
    financial officer but I do suspect that questions are being asked...

    
    Let me climb back up on my little business practices soapbox one more
    time here (re:-1).
    
    We will continue to have discounting problems as long as compensation
    measurements for sales reps/managers are based on revenue. Once they
    are based on margin contribution with individual "bonuses" tied to
    gross margin achievement, all this cr*p will go away.
    
    I am continuely amazed at how convoluted we make our current comp plans
    each and every year, when a simple plan paying $ based on margin would
    take about two pages of text, and be easily understood by anyone with
    half a brain.
    
    Being and doing engineering stuff is great for engineers, it does not
    work for sales people. (insert favorite smiley here)
    
    		the Greyhawk

Compensations based on margin contribution are absolutely the right
thing to do.  However, our infra-structure has such a hard time simply
keeping track of revenue, so I find it hard to believe we could keep
track of expenses, in order to compute margin.  While it is the right
thing to do, I don't believe we can implement compensations based on
margin.

If we could somehow make it work...

I used to sell cars once upon a time, lived off of commision only,
hated it (really not a salesman at heart) but everything was based
on margin, I knew going in that I'd get 30% of gross profit per unit,
and every unit had a 'pak' or a 'overhead number' attached to the
bottom line, so I was really was just playing with pure profit...

I used to fight like hell to make a profit on every deal, and when I
decided to 'give' something away, it was with my manager...sometimes
we'd break even just to keep a loyal customer...and I would get a minumum
commision, the point is, someone who was aware of the overall margin
for that month would help me make a decision on making a sale versus
losing profit...

The beauty of the setup, simple as it was, is that when I fought hard to
make myself some money, I made the company a lot of money too...in fact,
the best experiences I had with customers were with those that I simply
said..."Is 1000.00 dollar profit for us to make on this car fair?"  They'd
say "Sure" or "No, how about 750.00" BOOM!!  Deal would take an hour or
so and out go Mr. & Mrs. happy customer...they feel like they won, I win,
the dealership wins....


Don't know a THING about sales structure in this company, just wanted to relay
something that worked really well in another sales oriented industry (for me
anyway).

IMHO, commision based on margin is a great thing...makes things cut and
dried...

-Stephen

        Problem is, in a big outfit with many product lines, the guys with the
    low-margin stuff are constantly screaming for sales incentives to
    promote their line - especially when they've based their marketing plan
    on selling a gazillion of their widgets.

Right...and that's precisely why I got out of the biz back in '89...

Customers started reading Consumer reports, trying to buy the damn
things at cost, everything was a minimum commision...and I had to
sell 6 times as many cars to make the same amount of money and the 
sales took 6 times as long because we agured over 50.00 on a 15,000.00
vehicle...had to get out...was driving me completely insane...my old
"Can we make a 1000.00 on this car" resulted in people just walking
out on me...

If it's a volume product, the model I'm discussing here just does not
work...I agree.

-Stephen

    
    	Re: -2
    
    	BULL!!!
    
    	If your have low margin product even moreso the incentive to comp
    on margin - to prevent rampant discounting to below cost. If the low
    margin manufacturer wants to boost sales they "spiff" the salesforce
    on units sold by each order.
    
    	Order 10, get a little something; order 100, get a real something.
        All sales final, no returns. Orders filled completely upon
    	acceptance by manufacturer.
    
    	Period. End of story.
    
    
    			the Greyhawk
    	

    Didn't we try to track profit back about 3-4 years ago?
    
    Remember the BUP stuff?  What a horror story!

Greyhawk I usually agree with you...and I do agree with the point
about needing a mechanism to prevent people from 'giving away' low
margin stuff...I meant the margin is so low that any discounting
below that is gonna start diggin into cost of production...

But expecting a person to compete against a company who is kicking
yer @ss because thier cost of production is lower and can low-ball
you to death, all the while with a manager screaming at you to not let
sale on 'this very important' account go to the other guy...makes a
powerfull arguement for the channells inititative, IMO...they're
geared up to fight the low margin battle...

I have to admitt if I was a sales person here, I'd want to just sell
8400's and high margin workstations...

JMHO,

-Stephen

> Is it because you should be looking for Digital? :)
>
> I suspect you'll see a bunch of adverts on or around Aug 24th.
> We've got a whole new line coming out from what's been said.

  Is it just me, or does anyone else think this is the worst
  date in all of human history thus far to roll out a new hard-
  ware computer line? Won't our message be lost amidst just a
  teeny, tiny bit of other noise?

                                   Atlant

  Here's the apparent story from this week's "PC Week", page 3, in
  the "Breaking News" column:

 -=-=-=-=-

  DEC TO LAUNCH DESKTOP LINE OF PENTIUM PCS

  Digital Equipment Corp. this week will release the Celebris GL 
  line of Pentium-based desktop PCs. The system's motherboards 
  sport an integrated PCI Ethernet controller and a 2-D/3-D 
  graphics chip, as well as video and audio chips, according
  to company officials.

  The line will use Intel's 90MHz, 100MHz, 120MHz, and 133MHz 
  Pentium processors and a base memory confiuration of 16M bytes. 
  DEC will install both microsoft Corp's Windows for Workgroups
  and Windows 95. Prices start at $2,799.

By the way:

  "So fire me."

> By the way:
>
>  "So fire me."
    
    The Digital ad campaign indicated that we would all "be set afire".
    This presumably means that we would "be all fired up" and not "be
    fired".

    No wonder Hell has our number!
    

    [Background music beating out the Rolling Stones Start me up]
    
    [Forground showing chomping-at-the-bit young go getter]
    
    [Overlay sound bite:]
    
    "Hi, I'm your Microsoft preferred Digital Windows 95 support: 
     Why don't you fire me up!"

    .36
    It has come to my attention through family members that we don`t have
    numbers. If you look in the obituaries you`ll see they are in
    alfabetical (sp) order not numerical. :')

.36> No wonder Hell has our number!
    
.37> [Background music beating out the Rolling Stones Start me up]

  As Alan Parson once asked in some liner notes,

   "Whatever happened to Arthur Brown? Did he get 'burned out'?"

                                   Atlant

    Atlant, re: .32
    
    in consideration of our public mutual hugging with Microsoft, could we
    afford not to announce a product(s) with Windows95. please note we have
    two product releases coinciding with Windows95 - Celebris GL and Starion.
    
    anyway, i suspect marketing wants to follow the trend, announce with
    everyone else, ie 
    
    	a "rolling stone" gathers no moss
    
    dave (word-play and puns .. ugh .. don't "start me up") 

  Oh, I have no problem with us launching Windows/95 on all of our
  disks and making a big deal about that. I just think we're fools
  for trying to get attention for anything else (such as new hardware).

  This is Win/95 hype week, and everybody's going to be focused
  solely on that, or covering their ears and blocking out all
  messages.
                                   Atlant

    
      Home Shopping Network (HSN) just sold 500 new Starion 915's? this
    weekend (Digital people were on the air to help the sales).
    
       Configuration:  Pentium 100
                       8 MB RAM
                       850 MB Hard Drive
                       Windows 95 keyboard
                       15" .28 monitor
                       JBL surround-sound system
                       4x CD ROM
                       Voicemail/speakerphone
                       5 slots/5 bays (not sure if any are used?)
                       Windows 95
                       All that usual software
                       $2,399.95 +s,h,tax
    
       It seems like a reasonable deal and certainly is a step in the
      right direction putting the product in the public eye.
    
                 Mark

    
      I take that bit about $$ back. Its $1,618 from EPP, just checked, its
    amazing what can happen in a couple of days.
    
      Mark
    
    re: -1

    re: .43
    
    That $1618 for the Starion 915 is *without* the monitor, just FYI.  The
    15" is an extra $300-and-some.
    
    	Steve

    
    	Who cares what it costs? The fact that we sold 500 is something
    else.
    
    	Of course, if'n they'd been Alpha200's I feel a whole lot more
    better *knowing* we made money on the deal.
    
    	Sure would like to know how much was spent against how much margin
    dollars we collected. Wouldn't you????
    
    	Inquiring minds are a terrible thing to waste...
    
    		the Greyhawk

As long as we are not *losing* money...IMHO it's worth it to
break even just to gain some market/mind share for right now,
I'm seeing that we are actually getting mentioned along side
Compaq, HP and IBM now in the trade press...

We need to become the number 2 PC vendor behind Conpaq *real quick like*,
yep, I said it!!

It should go:

Compaq
Digital
HP
Others

Then we need to start pressuring the h*ll out of Compaq on quality...we make
better systems, period.

*We can do this*

-Stephen (totally pumped up on adrenaline)

|        Who cares what it costs? The fact that we sold 500 is something
|    else.

    I'm sure we made at least a dollar a pop, but to me the real value
    is the publicity created by this (almost) free air-time.

    How difficult would it be to do this again? How do we influence
    HSN to sell our stuff or didn't we?

    >Per

  Is it really "free" airtime, or do we pay for it or guarantee
  a minimum or a percentage or some such?

                                   Atlant

    I'm reminded of the marathon runner who is struggling to keep up
    and despite his best efforts sees the lead group starting to pull
    away. Right at now moment his coach pulls alongside. The runner
    looks at him in some desperation. "What should I do?" he asks
    breathlessly.
    
    "Run harder" replies the coach.
    
    What is worrying me here is that we seem to be seeing all the
    classical textbook market theory taking place here: the market
    share holders driving the market so hard that the smaller players
    get squeezed until they drop out.
    
    The classical text book market theory is a hard and unfriendly
    soul. It says that if you're not with the big boys (generally
    the top 5) and you're not gaining market share you either get
    out or you go niche.
    
    With a market share that doesn't make the top 10 in a mature market
    combined with a growth rate not equal to market growth (i.e.
    we appear to be losing market share) and caught in the classic margin
    crunch I'm really wondering what tricks the PCBU could have up its
    sleeve to crack this one?
    
    Personally I put my bets on the PCBU going niche: focus on servers
    only which have on the one hand a higher margin and on the other hand
    can leverage off Digital's server business. Of course, the discerning
    soul will immediately realize that this may well imply that the PCBU would
    likely fold back into Digital's server division...
    
    re roelof
    (Your local cristal ball gazer)

    Can you, in reality, run a servers-only business? Or will you
    consistently lose out to someone like H-P who can offer both desktops
    and servers?
    
    \dave

> Can you, in reality, run a servers-only business?

  I don't think so, unless your servers are truly exceptional.
  Our x86 servers aren't. Our Alpha servers might be.

                                   Atlant

    
    	While bleak, the current PCBU situation is *not* hopeless.
    
    	First, the PCBU should grow up, admit its mistakes internally, beg
    humbly for foregiveness, and then allow all Digital sales types to sell
    PCs directly. Reps will get PC budget, and bonuses for making their
    margin bogies. Discounting beyond a normal VOLUME range will be
    punishable by immediate termination of all responsible.
    
    	Second, the PCBU having now acknowledged it is not the resident
    expert on the marketplace, gathers input from associated DECies,
    customers, and consumers on what they *should* be building, and at what
    price point.
    
    	Third, they concentrate on executing steps one and two detailed
    above.
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

Look everybody, this is gonna work..I'm telling you, it's already is working...
I keep my finger on the PC Rag/ PC Mindshare pulse, and we are making inroads.
Already, we are becoming a player, the new models that have been recently
introduced are KILLER...and people are sitting up and taking notice...

Despite our lack of marketing savy, the PC industry is starting to view us
as the 'darling child' of the PC race...

Sit back and watch the rave reviews start pooring in...

I for one am feeling VERY positive about things...and I'm headed over across
the street to soak up  the excitement!!

Hurray for Digital!!

-Stephen

I don't know ... I just looked at PC World, who select the top 20
power desktops, budget desktops, power portables, and budget
portables. The Celebris 590 and 5120 are listed 14th and 20th (and
both declining) on the power desktop category and there's no mention
of Digital in any of the other categories. The budget desktop category
includes names like HiQ, Intelesys, Netis and MIS which I never heard
of. Power portables note AST, Dell, IBM, Compaq, Toshiba and NEC;
budget portables mention CTX, Acom, Sceptre, AMS (who *are* these
people?).

It looks to me like we have a *long* way to go.

Pete

Look, we just cut prices dramatically on the HiNote laptops...came out with
an AWSOME Celebris GL line, and a killer new Starion lineup...in the PC
industry, things move really fast...

What I'm saying is so what?

The PC World thing is already outdated.  An besides, how many mid to large
companies are gonna 'bet their business' on a no-name PC?  I'm telling you,
I can feel it...we're starting to break through...check out PC Week!!

-Stephen

re Note 4049.55 by DECWET::WHITE:

> Look, we just cut prices dramatically on the HiNote laptops

        I read an article about this in yesterday's WSJ.   At the end
        of the column they quoted a spokesperson for Toshiba (whom
        they said had 15% of the US market for notebooks vs.
        Digital's 11th-place 1.5% -- this is from memory, folks).  In
        essence, the Toshiba person said "so what?"

        Bob

> It looks to me like we have a *long* way to go.
  
    Now that depends strongly on the direction we're going... :-(

In the light of my little bit of cristal ball gazing in .49 this becomes
    more interesting...
    
    re roelof
    (now minus cristal ball :-)
    
 AT&T

 AT&T CONSOLIDATES SERVER AND PC BUSINESS TO ENHANCE INDUSTRY FOCUS
 IDC Weekly Update, August 10, 1995

 * AT&T GIS consolidate its server and PC business units as part of an
   overall corporate realignment.
 * New, single, integrated Computer Business will now share marketing,
   development, and manufacturing resources among the PC and server product
   divisions. 
 * Hopes to target the retail, financial, and communications industries
   where AT&T believes it can add significant value.
 * The company recently posted a $189 million operating loss (2Q 95).
 * Overall revenues increased slightly 7% in 2Q from last year's period.
 * Product and systems revenue grew a larger 12% in 2Q.
 * Most of the growth was concentrated in its PC business.
 * Revenues from PC sales increased 16% in the quarter; orders jumped 22%
   over last year's 2Q.

Someone that I was just talking to mentioned that HP didn't really starting
pushing into this area until about a year ago. It appears they had the right
channel connections to start pushing their PC's and BOOM they're going for being
the 5th largest PC seller. 

I've never seen TV adds discussing their PC's, printers yes, not their PC's but
yet they're now gaining on the number 5 spot. We were speculating that maybe
their success with PC's may be due in part because of their success with their
printer business (~6 Billion). People may be choosing HP PC's partially because
of the success HP Printers have enjoyed in the market place.

    re .58
    
    eh? You reckoned we would narrow our line down, AT&T are just
    re-aligning the PC business unit, it says nothing about specialising,
    reducing the range etc

  HP's relationships with retailers were very clearly established 
  on the strength of their printers. Their printers are highly
  regarded and are thought by many (including myself) to be "Best
  of Breed".

  It's therefore entirely reasonable that the retail community and
  the home and SOHO customer community would be inclined to think
  well, a priori, of HP systems products.

                                   Atlant


P.S.: And in the engineering business, and medical business, and
      a few other metrology off-shoots, we work with HP equipment
      daily, and it once again merits "Best of Breed". Except for
      'scopes where my allegiance will always be with Tektronix.

    re: .55
    
>> An besides, how many mid to large
>> companies are gonna 'bet their business' on a no-name PC?  I'm telling you,
    
    This attitude is, IMO, one of the major things killing Digital; the
    idea that people are going to buy from us and not from, say, Gateway
    or Quantex just because we're Digital and they're not.  Digital has
    had this attitude for *years*.  After what Digital has gone through
    in the past few years I'm amazed that anybody is still holding onto
    it, but I guess it's still firmly entrenched.  It needs to change.
    

>    re .58
>    
>    eh? You reckoned we would narrow our line down, AT&T are just
>    re-aligning the PC business unit, it says nothing about specialising,
>    reducing the range.
    
    I find it hard to believe that AT&T are "just realigning" the unit.
    Methinks that this is just SaveFaceSpeak for "we're cutting our losses
    and running..."

with .62...

Look, our competitve advantage is VALUE...we have the best engineered systems
out there, and a world class service organization to back them.  As someone
pointed out, HP is garnering success because of an already strong printer
business and strong retail relationships...GW2000 sells a ton of boxes
because, well thier cheap...and they advertise...ever seen one of thier
six page ads in a PC Rag??

>>Who cares if we're Digital?  Nobody!

THAT is the problem...and THAT's what needs to change.

Our competitive edge is excellence in engineering, price performance, service,
and experience...people should buy our PC's because of yes...I'm saying it,
the Digital name.  Not working to make that name well known has ALWAYS been
Digital's problem. Period.

JMHO,

-Stephen

    re: .64
    
    You really need to stop internalizing and emote more.  Maybe strong,
    declarative statements leaving no room for discussion, instead of
    all the IMHOs, ya know?
    
    							Tex

And Tex...you REALLY need to get of my back and quit targeting
me all the time...

I'm sick or your personal attacks...

What is your problem???

Why don't you post something about an issue instead of always
directing your comments at me?

Again, dude, get away from me...I'm just plain sick of it.
If your intent is to badger me until I quit participating in
notes, say the word, and I'm *gone*.

-Stephen

>If your intent is to badger me until I quit participating in
>notes, say the word, and I'm *gone*.
    
    Don't tease me.... :^]
    
    								Tex

	yikes! must be Friday...

	yikes! must be Friday...
    
     
>	yikes! must be Friday...
    
    ...and apparently the Prozac's wearing off. :^]
    
    It's Friday, and I'm one hour away from sailing my boat beerward.  It's
    kinda cool for August, not much wind, but DPDMAI::MOORE and I figger we
    can probably suck down a coupla cans of suds at .5 knots as well as we
    can at 5 knots.  Of course the BPK (Beers per Knots) ratio increases
    beyond industry standards, but...
    
    Have a nice weekend, everyone.  Now, back to your regularly scheduled
    program...
    
    								Tex

    We keep claiming we're great, that we're better than all those other
    guys.  We believe it (at least some of us do) and that leads to
    complacency.  That's what got us into the mess we're in, believing
    that just because we're Digital, people ought to buy our stuff.
    The outside world doesn't care whether we're Digital or not.  Brushing
    off our competition  with the assumption that no customer would "bet
    their company" on a no-name system strikes me as complaceny at its
    worst.
    
    Now, you're right, we need to *make* the outside world care that we're
    Digital and Joe's Computer is not, but I think we've got to prove that
    to *every* customer *every* time.  We can't assume anything or take
    anything for granted.
    
    Maybe some customer will have the experience I had when I bought my
    Digital PC.  I didn't get one of the manuals it was supposed to come with.
    I called numerous times and kept getting brushed off. I was totally
    ripped at Digital and at one point seriously thought of sending the
    whole system back.  I finally got it only through the efforts of Steve
    Lionel taking the time to look up part numbers to I could prove to the
    twit on the order line that look, this part number lists this manual,
    stoopid.  Personally, I don't think we're all that great.

RE: .64

And I strongly disgree with you...

> Our competitive edge is excellence in engineering, price performance, service,
> and experience...people should buy our PC's because of yes...I'm saying it,
> the Digital name.  Not working to make that name well known has ALWAYS been
> Digital's problem. Period.

And how, EXACTLY, is Digital going to become "known" against the likes
of HP, IBM, Compaq, etc., if it sticks to a LOW VOLUME strategy relative
to direct competitors?  (Volume in this context includes "things that
sit in front of people", including PCs, printers, terminals, etc.)

(Good) products in front of people is the BEST advertising there is.
You see someone USING something, not just begging you to buy...

(Also, I don't know about you, but I'm a stingy kinda guy most days, and
if someone asks me to spend $s for a "label", it's a no sale.  *If* there's
something behind the label AND that's what I'm interested in, it might make
a difference, but, at least in my case, price is likely to win.  Also,
note that Apple has a well-established "brand", but that hasn't stopped
market-share erosion...)

> GW2000 sells a ton of boxes
> because, well thier cheap...and they advertise...ever seen one of thier
> six page ads in a PC Rag??

Actually, the reason why Gateway got to where there are ISN'T necessarily
related primarily to advertising.  That helps, but a lot of people I know
bought them because of:

    - Low cost (your first point)

    - Word of mouth (something that goes with VOLUME - previous customers
      are the best advertising there is - if they're satisfied.)  HP
      certainly isn't selling a lot of PCs because people *didn't* like
      their printers...  (or by their volume of advertising, for that
      matter, since I haven't noticed their PC ads even as much as Digital.)

>If your intent is to badger me until I quit participating in
>notes, say the word, and I'm *gone*.

>-Stephen
    
    No Stephen. Don't quit. We need more people like you.

>>	yikes! must be Friday...
>    
>    ...and apparently the Prozac's wearing off. :^]

	Tex - Prozac's too weak for me these days ;-) but my comment
	was prompted by Steve's apparent need of some ;-) ;-)

	_kelley

uh...let me clarify...

.71 and .72

I am not suggesting that we do any 'brushing' off, what I am trying to
communicate is what it is that I see as our *competitive advantage*,
the problem is not our products...it's our image.  Windows95 is no better
than O/S2 or Mac O/S, yet it's gonna kick their butt...now ask yourself,
why is that?

Let the channels worry about volume...we owe it to ourselves to do two things,
get our name out there in the publics mind, and I mean the college kid to
the college professor...the small business to the large company, and make
money on our products that we should be making on...Alpha systems, etc.

I agree with the need for volume, but again, what is it that would make you
want to buy a Digital system?  Is it the price?  Isn't the reality more along
the lines that if the price is close to or slightly higher than the competitors,
you'll pay for it because of the excellence in engineering?  So what I'm saying
is...the recovery is sound, it's working, our business plan is sound, the
channels will take care of volume...what we need to do is identify our
competitive edge, and deliver the knockout punch...market our exceptional
engineering excellence....

>And how, EXACTLY, is Digital going to become "known" against the likes
>of HP, IBM, Compaq, etc., if it sticks to a LOW VOLUME strategy relative
>to direct competitors?

By DIFFERENTIATING ourselves from them!!!  With a marketing campaign designed to
do just that.  And a channels initiative to increase volume that doesn't
cost us a cent other than manufacturing and delivering and some costs
associatied with 'partnering'.  It's a BEAUTIFUL strategy...but again, the
weak marketing will doom this plan....

>Brushing off our competition with the assumption that no customer would "bet
>their company" on a no-name system strikes me as complaceny at its worst.

Your right, and I do not mean to sound like that, what I am trying to
communicate is that I percieve an opportunity to use our excellent
reputation for systems engineering as a marketing vehicle and a way to
differentiate ourselves from the competition...I don't WANT this comapany
to become a GW...my sincere desire is for this company to get aggresive
with advertising...the day I see a 50 second, progressive, 'educate the
customer' spot on Monday Night Football, is the day I'm gonna really start
celebrating our comeback...

BTW, JMHO to me means 'Just my HONEST opinion'...I'm a lot of things, but
humble ain't one of them.

JMHO,

B^)

-Stephen

I feel like some of you need to get OFF of prozac...

C'mon, we need to get fired up!!  This is crunch time!!

If this was a footbal game, Digital has come back from a 60
point defecit in the forth quarter...the score is 59 us,
60 the rest of the industry...

Now, do we go for 2 points or kick the field goal for the tie?

    If we kick the field goal, I believe we win anyway.
    (I know, picky, picky, picky)
    
    Ricky

    It seems to me that, if we are anxious to get ourselves in front of all
    the people who buy PC's who don't already know about us, then WE are
    the "no-name" people.   Add to that the Digital/DEC controversy - of
    those who have heard of either, only 30% know the two names mean the
    same thing, we seem to be even less-than-no-name.   
    
    I agree with two previous suggestions: get out there in their faces, with 
    advertising, showing PC's, and the DEC/|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|/Digital
    Equipment Corporation connection until _WE_ become a known name in
    PC's.
        
    Joan
    
    

 
    re -.1
       
>    I agree with two previous suggestions: get out there in their faces, with 
>    advertising, showing PC's, and the DEC/|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|/Digital
>    Equipment Corporation connection until _WE_ become a known name in
>    PC's.
    
    What good does throwing good money on advertizing do if we over-price
    ourselves out of a commodity market?  To see what I am talking about 
    see the following chart from PC Week mag. (Aug 21 issue) for Windows 
    95 Support (our hardware pricing has been discussed ad nauseam):
    
    	Support		Microsoft		Unisys		Digital
    	------		---------		------		-------
    90 day		free			  -		   -
    Per-minute		$ 1.95			$ 1.95		   -
    Per-incident	 35.00			 35.00		$ 130.00 (3.5X!)
     5-Call packs	125.00			150-425		   -
    10-Call packs	  - 	   	 	   - 		 1,320-1800
    500-Call packs	  - 			   -		52,800-81,600
    
    From the above, one can further conclude that even our higher packs
    cannot compete (for 10-call packs I will pay MS only $250, Unisys $300-850,
    for 500-call packs MS charges $12,500, Unisys $15,000-$42,000)
    
    Dan

    BTW,  there is a footnote in tiny letters that Digital pricing is 
    "part of broader help-desk service."  
    
    Dan

    
    Dan,
    
    Please remember that we have many vice-presidents to maintain. The 
    real problem is that our competition doesn't! I would suggest that 
    this is a structural imbalance; we should requires our competition
    to have as much middle management and vp overhead as we do. 
    
    jc ( 1/2 :-( + 1/2 :-) )

    re .79
    
    Who cares about footnotes or broader help desk stuff. We are TOO
    expensive. Period.
    
    Alan

    Hey Alan, no offense, but .80 said that already, & funnier too! :->
    

    Yep - but I replied to .79 before I read .80. 
    
    Anyway, it can stand being said twice (or 10 times)
    
    Alan
    

    
    .75
    
    > If this was a football game...
    
    It's not a game. If it was, we'd have all our upper management doing
    Nike commercials.
    
    This isn't about corporate projections or revenue forecasts, POs, LOEs,
    or any other three letter word in the Digitalese language.
    
    It's about service.  When the customer calls you up about expectations,
    you fulfill them. You don't whine bitterly. You perform.  You go
    internally whining, cajoling, pushing, shoving, to get the job done
    for the customer.  If Joe manager thinks it's not our business to keep
    or earn customer satisfaction, then you use stealth, resourcefulness,
    and intrigue to get the job done.
    
    If education was the ticket to everything, there wouldn't be any crime
    in the street, AIDS patients wouldn't dropping like flies, etc.
    
    This business, unfortunately, is also about politics and memory.  The
    guy you worked with 10 years ago might hold the purse strings to
    a major account.   If you did a good job 10 years ago, and he finds
    out you're on the team, he may bounce the money in your company's
    direction, just because he knows you're someone who can be counted on.
    
    Simply stating that if we bamboozle 'em enough with flying colors
    and 300 million dollar promotional campaigns, we'll win "the game"
    is, to me, horsehockie.  Would you want a wife who's commitment to
    you rested in your 300 million dollar bank account ?  If not, why
    would you expect a customer to do the same ?

    This discussion is difficult in that it's dealing in many tones of grey
    and everyone's statement has a certain element of truth.
    
    On the one hand, it is absolutely true that enthousiasm, optimism
    and self confidence can move mountains and is absolutely vital
    to success. On the other hand, Don Quijote in his quest to eradicate
    windmills on the Andalucian plains brimmed with enthousiasm, optimism
    and self confidence: realism needs to part of the equation. The 
    problem with realism however is that it is very difficult to 
    differentiate it from pessimism.
    
    I guess my question is: to what extent is the concept of a Digital
    PC juggernaut stomping the PC leaders left and right a Don Quijoteism?
    
    I would venture to question how sound Digital's PC plan is. If it is
    such a sound business plan how come Bernard Auer was recently made
    to walk the plank? And why won't we achieve the planned #5 spot at
    the end of the calendar year? The soundness of a business plan is 
    directly linked to the ability to successfully execute that plan.
    
    What I _do_ know is that any PC plan which is based on the premise that
    "we make better PCs" is definitely _not_ sound simply because the PCs
    of all the leaders are all high quality. Someone argued that people don't 
    bet their businesses on a noname PC and they are quite correct but
    for different reasons: People no longer _have_ to bet their business on
    _any_  PC. If a PC doesn't work go get another. If they're really 
    critical stock one or two in the backroom. So while PCs as a 
    whole are critical to running a business this cannot be extrapolated 
    to a requirement to go for any particular (high quality) PC brand.
    
    Unfortunately the _only_ argument that I have heard up to now why
    we should be able to counter market forces that will take us from a
    #11 spot to a #5 (or better) spot is the "better system" argument.
    An argument that I believe to be practically irrelevant in today's 
    PC market.
    
    We need a sound business strategy that explains _why_ , _how_ and
    _when_ we can get from #12 (or #11) to #5 or better , now it may well be
    the case that there is one but it has certainly not yet been described
    in even the slightest detail in this thread  and I personally still
    don't know what it is nor can even speculate what it might look like.  
    Put another way, I simply don't understand what it is that will (or is
    supposed to) take us from our #11 position to a market leaders
    position.
    
    And for those armchair marketeers among us who happen to believe
    that our major problem is lack of advertising I'm reminded
    of the coach who on seeing his football team failing turns to his
    assistant and says...[see reply title]
    
    re roelof                               
    

>    .75
>    
>    > If this was a football game...
>    
>    It's not a game. If it was, we'd have all our upper management doing
>    Nike commercials.
    
    Good one, Barry!
    
    "DecWhite's pom-poms flip perkily in the air, as Bob Palmer leads his
    all-star Maynard Manglers onto the field.  The crowd goes wild just
    seeing the enthusiasm and immediately rushes from the field to buy tons
    and tons of Digital products, the corporate sponsor...."
    
    				----------------
    
    Or maybe not.  Barry's right, it's not a football game, it's a
    business, and it grows old reading "one-line" fixes.  "All we have to
    do is...".  Hell, forward it to BP, he's obviously just overlooked the
    solution.  Can't believe we pay him that much and he can't even see
    what's obvious to a new hire. :^]
    
    Reading well-thought out posts (the majority) regarding specific
    problems and solutions is interesting, helpful, and in the best
    interests of objective discourse.  Reading insipid entries like:
    
    "Simple solution..."
    
    "That's it, period."
    
    and other such "I've got the answer and I'm right and there's no sense
    to discuss it further" posts are...not very helpful.  Doctor says "Drop
    the pom-poms, take a deep breath, have another little blue pill".
    
    							:^]	Tex
    
    

   Re: .85
    
>    And for those armchair marketeers among us who happen to believe
>    that our major problem is lack of advertising I'm reminded
>    of the coach who on seeing his football team failing turns to his
>    assistant and says...[see reply title]
    

    Very incorrect analogy. It assumes everyone can see your team as well as
    they see the other team. And further the verdict here is that your team is 
    crappy.

    That does not mirror the market place, where you "Get the girls to wave 
    the pom-poms higher!" simply becuase you want more people at your stall.

    Consider some questions:

    - Are DEC PCs of good quality ??  		
    - Is DEC PC support good ??			
    - Are DEC PCs competetively priced ??		

    There is no doubt the answer to the preceding questions is an unequivocal
    YES.

    With the above already in place, the only ingredients necessary to propel
    this product line to the numero one place in the market are:

    - Aggresive Marketing 
    - Sustaining the quality and competitive prices
    - keeping pace with the market changes

    The key attitude missing within DEC is aggresion which come from 
    "believing in themselves".  While introspection and criticism is very much
    necessary on an ongoing basis, I find with some people, the attitude 
    has turned ominously pessimistic and that tends to rub off.

    If I were truly pessimistic about the company I work for, I woudn't.

OK Tex, you win...

I've had enough...

But before I go let me set you straight on a few facts...

The game your playing right now? In real time with me...it just
plain don't get played...my name is STEPHEN WHITE, not DecWhite.
Your little BS name calling and the like are taken as a direct insult,
they are the definition of something that's 'personal', and where I come from,
insults get dealt with...never are they 'brushed off'.  I would really get a
kick out of meeting you in person.

>>DecWhite's pom-poms flip perkily in the air.

Let me do a little bit more of my 'daydreaming' since everybody wants
to point out the obvious (that being that this isn't a 'football' game,
silly me, I thought that everyone in this conference would at least
take an analogy at face value, i.e. by definition an analogy is NOT
reality)...

I'm back in college, back at my old position at outside linebacker...hmmm...
this isn't too far fetched, almost in a good as shape as I was then, and the
guy who just made that comment about me and pom-pom's is in the backfield
looking kind of twitchy...keeps looking to my side of the field...
instinctually...I move up and crowd the tight end...the ball is snapped and sure
enough, it's a pitch out to my side of the field and the tight-end tries to
undercut my legs...but I'm hip to what's happening, and I simply step over the
attempt...now it's just me and 'pom-pom' boy...I actually roar with delight...

Several people have mailed me off-line about you TEX...now, why would people do
that I wonder?...why would people feel a need to explain your demeanor to me?

hmmm....

Since you don't pull any punches Tex, I'm not gonna either...I see YOU and 
YOUR mentality as a tangible example of what went wrong and what is still
wrong with this company...I mean, I can be right just by definition! I'm not
part of the people that were here when everything went to hell in a hand basket!!

I find it so incredibly ironic that you can sit there and have the audacity to 
condemn a new hire's enthusiasm, regardless of whether or not you think it
is misplaced or not...when YOU are part of the problem!!  It's not MY fault
Digital almost went broke.  It's not MY fault your so burned out that you
have nothing positive to say...It's not MY fault that everytime I post something
you have to insult me...

No TEX this is YOUR problem...I can just quit participating in this, and get
my fix in discussion groups on the net...

So you go ahead with you little gestapo...your little, cynism club you got going
here...this Notes file is pathetic, marshelled by the likes of you, the
'cynacism' police...what I am beginning to realize is why most of my positive
discourse is happening off-line...it's because most Digital employees just don't
feel the risk of posting something positive and upbeat and getting eating alive
by the DEC Notes Sharks is worth it...And that's really where I'm headed right
now...but I'm doing it for me, because I can't handle the stress...

BTW, the insults?  Karma is karma...things have a way of evening out...

Try to imagine in your little scenario you just painted...that person with
the pom-poms as a 6' 3'' 215 pound, 17 inch arms bulging out of the sweater...

Pretty funny isn't it?  Keep laughing...just keep laughing...

*gone*

    
    re .all
    
    "gee this is a really good product" verses
    
    "this is a fine, excellent product, why don't you *all* have them"
    
    All it takes is some spin-doctoring, a little noise, and some agressive
    people to make it a success. Within this company, we have them all. We
    just need to cut loose.
    
    -Mike Z.

Re: .78, .79    
    
    Today, I received the attached general distribution memo.  It clearly 
    negates what PC WEEK published (just a week ago!) on atleast our "PER 
    INCIDENT" charge for WIN 95 support.  The good news is we are the cheapest
    given everybody elses' charge remains the same.  The bad news is the 
    damage is already done by the article (whether they used a stale data 
    provided to them month ago or not is an open question).  I would also 
    imagine that the other prices may no longer be valid.  Anyhow, I hope
    someone would look into why we have such a discrepancy in our service 
    offerring in the same week and one which ends up being published in a 
    major PC publication for the whole world to perceive us uncompetetive
    when in realty we may be the cheapest.
    
    Dan
    
    
********************************************************************************
		     THIS MESSAGE IS FROM PAT PATTERSON
********************************************************************************

  Digital provides Per Incident Fee Based Support for Microsoft's Windows 95

When Microsoft Windows 95 was released at midnight on 24 August, Digital's 
Customer Support Center was one of 5 service providers to support customers
at a per incident rate of $30.00, 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.  Customers
will call 1-800-430-5411 to receive Windows 95 Per Incident Support from
Digital.

Microsoft customers who purchase Windows 95 have 90 days of no-charge
telephone support from 6:00 am to 6:00 pm Pacific time, Monday through 
Friday.  The per incident support allows customers the assistance they 
require around the clock.
 
This support is being provided through our Desktop Applications Support Team 
located in Alpharetta.  They successfully closed 8 Windows 95 per incident
calls between midnight and 8:00 am Eastern time today!

Please call Pat Patterson or Terry Holley for any questions regarding this
per incident support.

re: .88

More off-line stuff is rolling in...

Someone said that my post insuates that I'm going to 'beat Tex up'...

Let me make it clear that I never said such a thing.  'Dealing' with something
does not equate to 'beating someone up'.

*really gone*

No Tex, I'm not teasing.

    re: .88
    
    Evidently they've dropped the psychological profile test for new
    hires... :^]
    
    Now, back to our normally scheduled show...  What's the projected
    figures for the MicroSoft support services?  Anyone know?
    
    								Tex

    
    Careful with them flames, Steve.  Those flames erupting from the
    screen singed my eyebrows.

>    With the above already in place, the only ingredients necessary to propel
>    this product line to the numero one place in the market are:
>
>    - Aggresive Marketing 
>    - Sustaining the quality and competitive prices
>    - keeping pace with the market changes

Its that "only" bit...now that football analogies are no-no I'll revert
to my marathon runner analogy: the "only" thing that the runner needs
to do to get back in the lead group is "run harder".

"Sustaining quality and competitive pricing" isn't that difficult but
finish the sentence with "and make a profit while you're at it" and
then the picture suddenly changes hue.

[WARNING - Speculative Mode Now On - I am not a PC manufacturer.]

I suspect that in a volatile business as the PC business there are
more elements that play a significant role besides quality and aggressive
marketing. I believe the following list is more complete:

- product quality
- aggressive and focused marketing
- focused, strong channels strategy
- flexible manufacturing (quick rampup/rampdown, low stockage)
- same day/week sales tracking
- tight forcasting

Noone has an issue with Digitals quality. Contrary to some peoples
opinions I believe that Digital's marketing in the PC space has been
quite good. For a while the HiNote for example was a benchmark system
in the press - that requires an awful lot of hard marketing effort.

No, I suspect (and would put my money on) that we should look to the 
last four as a source of the PCBU's problems. Why? Because Digital has 
been traditionally not very strong (read: weak) in _all_ of the last four.

You can spend your way to an aggresive marketing campaign but you
can't spend your way to any of the last four - they each require 
experience, business savvy, time and a lot of blood, sweat and tears.

An interesting question arises when you start wondering why HP _has_
made it to the top 5. With respect to both product quality and advertising
I don't see a major difference to that of Digital's efforts. 

My guess here is that a major difference is to be found in the fact that 
through its low end printers HP has had a number of years to hone and 
develop its low end box shifting channels, manufacturing and sales 
tracking mechanisms. That there was something else in the box (a printer) 
apparently wasn't important to developing and perfecting these skills.

[Speculative Mode Off]

Of course I would love to be proven wrong in all of this so if anybody
from the PCBU (or anywhere else) wants to correct me...

re roelof

> OK Tex, you win...
>
> I've had enough...
>
>But before I go let me set you straight on a few facts...

    Nobody (including Tex) wins when someone who is trying to 
    seriously contribute feels that they no longer can post. We all lose. 
    I can't tell Tex to lay off (well I could but he wouldn't listen :-), 
    anyway here's a personal invitation to keep on posting.
    
    Deep down I suspect you probably remind Tex of himself when he was 
    young :^), I've said it before: Tex probably likes you but just has 
    a somewhat original way of expressing it :-)
    
    And, Stephen, you're right: many things are simple. On the other hand wasn't
    it Einstein who said "Make things as simple as possible but no
    simpler"?
    
    re roelof
                 

    
     re.90 PC Week stuff
    
    As a regular reader of PC Week and other such trade rags I see our
    products and others routinely bashed and mis-interpreted. Yes, no one
    is perfect. These rags do hold some usefull information, if you can
    weed through the "personal" aspect of them. Tying them all together, one
    can get a real nice picture of computing today.
    
    So.... how come Digital cannot annoint a group of PR people to
    personally get and keep in contact with these trade magazines? Sort of
    make it a full-time job of propoganda spinning and spin-doctoring. We
    seem to do it after the fact anyway, which may be to late! Can we get
    ahead of the game and establish a relationship with these people?
    
    -Mike Z.

    Somehow, this is just the sort of thing that Digital simply cannot
    manage to do. Every attempt I've seen at putting together a "strike
    force" effort has petered out in organizational and staffing issues,
    turf wars and insufficient funding. This is almost always followed by
    the publication of a "mission statement" listing all the things that
    the new organization DOESN'T do (but which you'd have thought it
    would).
    
    ACT's that didn't do demos... proposal groups that didn't write
    proposals... A trade press contact group whould soon discover that
    talking to magazine people was not part their mission. And besides,
    they'd have to pay for the test units out of their own pockets.
    
    \dave

    
     Re - .1
    
    Then what are we in business for? Have someone volunteer time and
    effort. How much does it cost to send an E-Mail about product
    announcements or directions or features to someone. If someone or
    some "body" or some group cannot handle it, force them too! Say "Guess
    what, part of your direction and success comes from educating EXTERNAL
    masses." Live up to it. I am educated on DEC/digital trends, forays,
    offerings, why then are the trade rags and different?
    
    -Mike Z.

    
    	Re: last bunch
    
    	This is all very fascinating; but no where, anyplace has anyone
    noted that our products need to be *sold*. Contrary to popular myth,
    prospects and customers do NOT call us on the phone constantly saying
    they wish to purchase vast quantities of Digital brand anythings.
    
    	Sales folks at Digital must go out into the world and convince very
    skeptical other people that we have something of value to offer them.
    
    	This company better get a sales focus first...
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    Greyhawk,
    
    As Tex can attest, here was our latest and greatest "sales focus" from
    our umpteenth boss, edited to remove Digitalese for clarity...
    
    "We will be increasing revenues 20% this year."
    
    "Sales-support will be cut under my group."
    
    "You can get all the training you wish.  Just budget it."
    
    "People stay in this company for the toys.  Make sure your group gets
     them, but we can't extend your budget for it."
    
    The rule used to be "They rise to the level of their incompetency".
    Substitute "incompentency" with "insanity" and you get a current
    picture. Would you buy a fax machine from someone who had no idea
    how they worked ? How about an Alpha where the backplane reset button
    fell off, and was replaced to the tune of $1800 ?
    
    Don't get me wrong...sales are great when the seller knows the product.
    However, "value" comes by reputation and dependability, not by the
    initial promise.  Any condom manufacturer knows this. ;^)

     re:  .1                                                          

>    breakthrough. Last November, the Hi Note PC, Digital's first notebook
>    line, won raves as the star of the fall COMDEX computer show. But
>    manufacturing delays left the company unable to deliver product until

    Today I realized why DEC does not advertise aggresively: Because that
    would spur up the demand and then they would not be able to meet that
    demand.

    Went to a Lechmere store today, and found the space where they usually
    had 3 DEC PCs has instead Compaqs! Not a single DEC PC was on display
    in the store (although it was on their flyer). Reason?? Out of stock.
    Now imagine how many people wanna buy just by looking at a picture.
    
    I had bought my DEC PC from Lechmere about couple months back. Then
    too, I had to wait 2 weeks. In fact the DEC PCs there had a permanent
    label proclaiming - "This great item is out of stock, may we show you
    another of equal value?" I always found that label on DEC PCs every
    time I went. The sales man complained too saying that becuase of a
    great price, they were heavily backlogged and wondered if the supply
    problem persisted with 'our folks in HO or with Digital'.

    Either some one picked up the display models or the store manager
    decided to use valueable space for merchandise they could actually
    deliver - in this case Compaq Preserios. Till date, I have never known
    junk brands like Packard Bell to have an out-of-stock label. No wonder
    they sell.

    ANd today, finally the truth sunk in. I mean if DEC really started to
    advertise their products, wouldn't they have to face the reality of
    actually delivering it!! So why invite the calamity. Instead why not
    just let Compaq go through the rigamoroles of building and shipping a
    PC. Let *them* have the head aches. Let *them* struggle for shelf space.
    Why, we don't even want some wretched shelf space in some wretched
    department. 

    Hey, we are Digital, we are cool. We don't get down into this dog eat
    dog gutter of fighting over who is gonna sell a wretched PC for god's
    sake. There are something higher in life than just selling PCs. Like
    maybe inventing a great product. Like making the fastest chip on earth.
    Like making the most robust products. That's it. That is where our life
    mission begins and that's where it ends. And we shall take our own
    dammed time delivering it buster for we are the best. You want it
    pronoto? - well go to johnny next door and for god's sake stop
    bothering us. 
    
    And you there Carlos for gossake man stop making that racket. Put down
    that damned mike and stop hollering and making all that great sales
    pitch. I gotta headache. Can't you see we are all trying to get a rest
    here. And Derek ole boy, shut down that damn door. As long as these
    wretched mom and pop types keep walking in I shall never have my rest.
    Man what is the world coming to. Wouldn't let a guy live in peace.
    $#@%$^$ $@!!.

    Disgustingly,

    /vj

    My sister, a CPA in TEXAS, visited NY last week.  During the flight,
    the man sat beside her talked about his PC all the way.  This person
    came from Connecticut.  He had an old Digital PC ( sorry, my sister
    is not that good at identifying models) for a few years.  He hated
    it so much.  It is clumsy and ugly.  Recently, he read magzines and
    Comsumers Report and bought himself a Compaq Pentium PC.  He loves
    it so much and understand why Digital was in red.  He then asked
    my sister what kind of PC she is using.  She kindly answered that
    she is using a Compaq Laptop ( it's true) however her brother's
    company (that's me) is using thousands of Digital PCs (that's true) 
    and have no complaint ( this may be true).  That passenger replied
    that he could not imagine there exists any corporation using
    Digital PCs top down.  My sister did not tell him the name of my
    company (which is Digital).  My sister called me to tell me this story 
    and asked me how come people have such poor perception toward Digital. 
    
    This true story tells us:
    
    1. We need more and better marketing efforts.
    
    2. We need to create better image from users experience not by putting
       expensive advertisement.
    
    3. We don't need to repeat to ourselves how great we are.  We need to
       go out to prove it.
    
    4. Today's individual consumer will be tommorow's decision maker. 
       Don't ignore them.

Well, frankly, for any of our notebooks prior to the HiNote series I'd have to
agree with the guy; I wouldn't buy one of the AST-made notebooks on a bet -- the
keyboard seems to have been designed by someone that sells carpal tunnel
remediation on the side. Better marketing wouldn't have helped ... the notebook
itself unsold itself to me.

I've got a HiNote Ultra now. Prior to that, it was Toshiba, Compaq, TI...

RE: .102

	If his only introduction to DEC pc's was the old Tandy crap
	we used to sell, then no wonder his views are distorted. We've
	come a LONG way. The fault is in marketing. Somehow, he isn't
	seeing our new stuff and the decent reviews we get. (other than
	price that is)

RE: .103

	I agree. I have to use an AST-clone laptop for my trip to
	Microsoft next week. I'm dreading it. The thing is 6+ lbs.
	The keyboard sucks. But it's all I have until my HiNote Ultra
	comes in in a few weeks. (probably a week or two AFTER I
	return!)

							mike

    jeez, mikey.....
    
    some of us still have to use the 320p in our group.  we don't have
    anything on our desks except a couple of rented Compaq's (very old...
    very expensive)  
    
    i managed, a few months ago, to *UPGRADE* to a DECpc 425SL with 8MB and
    a 320 disk... it goes on the road with me all the time.  And, my
    customers really get a kick out of that ;^(
    
    My wife (in UEG) recently bought her own Toshiba Laptop... it's amazing
    the difference between hers and mine.
    
    count your blessings that you will *someday* get an Ultra... I don't
    have a prayer.
    
    
    tony

>================================================================================
>Note 4049.103                   BusinessWeek/PCBU                     103 of 104
>SMURF::PBECK "Paul Beck"                              7 lines   5-SEP-1995 18:34
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>          -< Good marketing is important, but so is good engineering >-
>
Quite frankly, I'm waiting for the good engineering on Digital's PC products. 
For our project, we got some HiNote Ultras and a couple of Celebrises.

	EVERY ONE is defective in some way or other:

One of the HiNote Multimedia Units came with a broken spring and will not
mount.

The holder for the battery on my Ultra is cracking.

All four of us experienced some weird video driver problems including flicker
at some resolutions and Windows 95 installation crashing during hardware
discovery.  This seems to be fixed in a bios update that we discovered was on
the BBS after untold pain.

The PCMCIA slots in the expander unit do not autorecognize.  This may be due to
being out of IRQs.

A design problem -- there's no floppy in the multimedial unit making it
impossible to install software from a CD when the software wants to build a
backup diskette.

The DOS/Windows utility that builds the distribution software for the HiNotes
creates a bad Windows Disk2.

One of the Celebrises came with a broken keylock.

The SCSI controller embedded in the Celebris seems to be at a fixed IRQ.  The
plug and play BIOS tried to configure a PNP add-in board and either set it to
the IRQ of the SCSI controller (on one machine) or the floppy (on another
machine) with predicatble results.  To get the machines to work (and the
boards,) we had to remove the boards, reconfigure the Celebrises, put the
boards in our personal home machines, reconfigure the boards & turning off PNP,
and then reinstall the boards in the work systems.

We had to hunt down the drivers for the Multimedia unit for Windows 95 because,
as configured, we could get the PCMCIA W95 software to work or the MM unit to
work, but not both.


There is simply no way that I would buy a Digital machine for my personal use
after this experience.  No wonder our customers share the same view.

BobW

    I had a friend who asked why we never advertise our PCs on TV like
    other companies do.  I asked him what he thought of the ads we did show
    on TV and he stated it looked liked we were marketing our PC image.  I
    agreed with him on that one.  The problem is Digital does not have a
    good PC image.  Show the product!  Microsoft has the image and clout to
    advertise an image but they choose to show the product (windows 95). 
    The Hi Note ad is very good because it showed the product.  People are
    not going to buy an PC image.  They want to see the product.

Does it do good to show them the product on TV if they can't see it in the
stores?

				Steve

    -1 
    
    No!

re: Note 4049.106 by SPECXN::WITHERS "Bob Withers" 

>Digital's PC Qualty

    I and another guy in my group ordered systems from Dell, mine came with
    a broken CDROM and his came with a broken monitor.  Dell sent me a
    replacement CDROM with the same problem. I sent my system back and
    decided to try Micron.  After waiting a week for a replacement monitor,
    the other guy sent his back.  Before anyone asks why not buy a DECpc,
    for the configurations I wanted Digital with the EPP would have been
    $100's more.  If you read the Micron, Gateway and Dell newsgroups you
    will see all sorts of stories about DOA systems and components.

    My group got 80 Venturis systems in February, I don't think we had one DOA.

    -Bruce 

RE: .105

	Geez Tony....

	I'm getting an Ultra because what I'm working on requires a
	laptop. Other than the 433SLC that I'm borrowing, there isn't
	much in the way of laptops to use right now. The Ultra is available, 
	so that's what we get. I feel bad that you have what you have.
	I know I'm spoiled with what I have (just look in my office, it's
	disgusting). I guess it's just more a matter of where you are and
	what you are working on.

	I stand by my statements in .104 tho.


							mike

    re .108
    
    I think so.
    
    One of the reasons they aren't on the shelves (IMHO) is that the store
    doesn't want to confuse the customer. Sell them what they came in and
    asked for (maybe move them up a model to maximize profit[sales 101]).

    If they (customer) is unsure and say's "Hey - what about that Digital
    box?" now they sales guy has to make a choice. Does he tell them it's a
    better box and risk losing the sale because a) he can't deliver for 2
    weeks. b) the customer thinks he's being "bait and switched" to an
    unknown brand ("Digital - don't they make really cheap watches?").
    ...or does he say its junk to avoid confusing a customer who asked to
    see a Packard-Bell?
    
    Yes. Put my next raise in the advertising budget.
    
    [my apologies to the writer of Field of Dreams for the title].
    
    
    r