Conference 7.286::digital

    I used it over the week-end, and it seemed to work fine for me.  I,
    however, only attempted to calculate results until age 65.  Were you
    planning on working and contributing up to age 99?  

    Well, on my Macintosh, I just made sure I could reformat over the disk
    and pulled the disk apart like pulling the wings off of a fly.  Made
    me feel real good!
    
    				-John
    

I played with it for a few minutes this weekend.  It was obviously not
customized enough for Digital.  It complained when I told it to expect 0%
annual raises.

Bob

    I tried it over the weekend, and it finally pointed out to me that I
    needed to start saving *now*, which, of course, I need peripherally,
    but just couldn't bring myself to do, since money always seems to be
    *so* tight in my house.  I like it.  Of course, my results at age 62
    are unrealistic, because, unlike -1, I planned 2.5% annual raises -:)!
    
    M.

I tried it - seemed to work ok, though like Bob I noted with irony that it
didn't like the idea of annual inflation exceeding annual pay rate increases,
which is the reality at Digital.

I was also amused that one of the early screens says to "Click on Done",
but the button in question is labelled "OK".

					Steve

    re .0 
    
    At 9 % your assets would double every eight years. If you are fairly
    young and make agressive assumptions about rates of return and salary
    increases its possible you might accumulate $12 million in nominal
    terms.
    
    Future$saver has an option which lets you look at your future savings
    balances in "current" dollars you might want to use this option to get
    an
    easier to comprehend picture of where you will stand ( if you are still
    able to ) when you are 99.

   My session with F$ went fine until I realized I was about to put my
   fist through my personally owned 17" multisync monitor.  I entered a
   inflation rate of 4% and an average rate what my last 6 years of pay
   raises have been (I don't expect any change in pay raise rate in the
   near future).
   
   Now I know what the relationship between the inflation rate and my
   raises has been and is.  But, I got slightly torqued when F$ put up a
   message box (as if I had made some boned-headed blunder) stating that
   the pay-raise rate I specified was less than inflation, and did I
   really mean to enter that data?
   
   Like, "Duh?"
   

    Re last several but especially part of .8:
    
    Ah...another stress reducing reason for buying a Macintosh computer. :-)

  Try entering a negative annual percentage raise and see if your PC crashes.

    Re .3 and .8
    
    I find it vastly amusing (read "stupid") that Digital says Future$aver
    is so important that every employee who is eligible for the SAVE plan
    should have it - yet statistically, between 15 and 20 percent of all
    eligible employees who own computers can't use it because it's FOR A
    PEECEE ONLY!
    
    I'm not sure whether this illustrates a boneheadedness quotient that
    even a Pachycephalosaurus would envy or a callous disregard for the
    REAL welfare of the company's employees.  And I'm not sure which would
    be better - that the company is being run by idiots or that it simply
    doesn't give a damn about us.  But it sure LOOKS good, doesn't it, a
    customized savings plan program for EVERY eligible employee.

    Re: .11
    Not only is it PC only software, it's Windows(TM) Software.  What
    happens if you have a little DOS, and Linux on your PC?  Or something
    else useful (Next perhaps ?)
    
    Bill
    

    I thought the Retirement Planning Section was pretty fair in that it
    let me enter data for my spouse's component of the retirement income
    stream. She works for a medical clinic that has a 401K plan and a
    pretty fair pension plan. It was helpful to see how that played into
    the big picture. Also I liked the sections that dealt with other
    costs ( health care, etc...) that I hadn't really given thought to.
    
    I was amused when I entered my annual pay raise figure and was advised
    that I wasn't keeping up with inflation. Like I need a computer to tell
    me that... ;8^)
    
    Not a bad package overall.
    
    My $0.02 worth,
    George

    Hm. 
    
    Well, I'd like to join in with the complaints, but my diskette hasn't
    shown up yet.
    
    ...tom

    Even if I did get it I don`t have a p.c. any way. I can`t afford, I
    work here.

re Note 3727.11 by SMURF::BINDER:

>     should have it - yet statistically, between 15 and 20 percent of all
>     eligible employees who own computers can't use it because it's FOR A
>     PEECEE ONLY!
  
        I know nothing about Macs, but I've seen this Apple ad on TV
        many times in which a stuffy executive is amazed that a
        Macintosh can run his Windows software.

        Sure you folks aren't stuffy executives?  :-}

        Bob

Bob:

  It's true!  The latest generation of PowerPC-based Macs
  do a pretty good job of it.  But, speaking for at least
  myself, I'm stuck with paying for my computers from my
  Digital salary, so I'm a generation behind right now.

                                   Atlant

re: .11

> I saw it on TV -- it must be true!

>        I know nothing about Macs, but I've seen this Apple ad on TV
>        many times in which a stuffy executive is amazed that a
>        Macintosh can run his Windows software.

It is true!  *If* you have the right model Macintosh.  :-)

	Steve                              

    Or the right (read "expensive") software.
    
    				-John

    I hope the boat that comes sailing into view when you first start
    the app wasn't based on that Australian America's Cup boat. ;-)
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    
    
    	I used it and put everything in. I had some of the same problems as
    allready mentioned.  One thing that bugged me is that there was an
    assumption that when you retire you plan on taking the Digital benefits
    immeditally.  It did not give you the option of retiring before 65 and
    not taking the Digtial pension until I reached 65.  Also, in this same
    vein it assumed that if I take the pension at age 65 that I will work
    at Digital until I'm 65.  Otherwise I thought it gave me some abilities
    to look at the future that I didn't have previously.  Does anyone out
    there have another commercially available retirement planning package
    that they think is more robust?

    The software was okay, but it wouldn't let me move my retirement age
    earlier than 55.  Sure, Social Security and Digital's retirement plan
    don't kick in until then, but if my other savings would support me, it
    should show that.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    Speaking of that $@%# boat, anyone besides me getting annoyed at
    watching it sail out, then the text appears ever so slowly, before it
    _finally_ gets to the 'start' icon?
    
    It's cute once. It's just a waste of time after that.
    
    Harry
    

    
    	Harry, you just got to upgrade from that 286 you're using ;-)
    
    	On my 486/66 the wake washes out the text almost immediately.
    	However, I do have to work until I'm 81 to have a retirement
    	worth talking about...
    
    		the Greyhawk

I played with the software, and according to it, when I retire at age 65 I'll
be able to live for exactly five minutes before my money runs out :-{.  ;-)

Anyway, I tried to print from the estimated returns window and got a GPF.

Otherwise, it's a good application! ;-).  It told me that putting away 8% of
my income into SAVE is clearly not enough.  Thank goodness under the new plan
I can go up to 12%.

-Patrick

    But Greyhawk, I'm using a 486/66 also. Maybe it's this old ISA bus
    Diamond Stealth card... :-) I guess I'll have to convince my wife that I
    need one of them new-fangled local bus Windows accelerator video cards!
    ;-)
    
    I also hate the fact that the software checks for a printer every time
    that it comes up. It has to tell me that my printer is out of paper,
    although the printer is really turned off. No need to keep a LaserJet
    warmed up all the time! The lights dim when the fusing heater kicks in!
    
    Harry
    

    
    	Harry, you're lucky the light dims. My 1152 blows out the circuit
    breaker, and if it feels particularly ornery, the whole neighborhood.
    But the fusing is permenent, bigtime!!
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
     You mean you guys have .... fuses... and circuits.... and electricity?
    
    Down here in the CommonWealth we rely on momma nature to power our new
    fangle T.V. style devices and such.
    
    Maybe I outa move?
    
    -Mike Z.
    

    	I tried it last night. Using my 1995 Pension statement I became
    confused when I tried enter the grandfathered amount vs the standard.
    
    	Anyone know the rules around the "grandfathered amount" ?
    
    bc

re: .29

If I remember correctly, it was 1% of the first $6600 (related to the
salary cap for FICA, in the good old days) and 1.9% on the amount over $6600.

- Scott

Interesting point on the pay not reaching inflation scenario.

I tried varying the percentage for pay increases.  If I was under
inflation, then I was set for ripe old age.  If my pay went up faster
than inflation, then I could probably outlive my savings.

Guess the message is if I can learn to live with lesser raises, then
I'm set for a long retirement.

Charlie

    Thats OK, given the bogus pension summaries, having bogus software just
    seems to be a fitting end...  If this didn't cost us money, it would
    be funny. :-(
    
    				-John

    Re .16
    
    That's true.  You an run Windows on a Mac.  You have the choice of
    paying $279 for SoftWindows and watching it crawl or - if you happen to
    have one of a certain very select group of Macs - paying $1,000 for a
    DOS card and watching it run at 486DX2/66 speed.
    
    Which of these options would Digital like to offer its Mac-owning
    employees?  I'll take the DOS card.  And the Mac to put it in, thank
    you very much.
    
    -dick

    so... how do you know if the statement for your retirement benefits
    which came with the software package is one of the bad ones or is one
    of the good ones?
    
    mine showed $0 for the Grandfathered amount.  What the *(&4 is that?
    
    tony

    RE: .33
    
    I'll just take $279 as a "block grant".
    
    				-John

You Mac owners are too much - what about the people who don't have a computer
at all?  I was among them until just a couple of months ago.  Or what about
the employees who don't have a VCR?  Maybe the company should buy everyone
a PC, TV and VCR?

Or are you having too much fun whining? :-)

				Steve

    
    	Oh no, Steve - I'll take the PC, TV and VCR. Thank you very much.
    	I do appreciate the offer. Just send 'em to ACI in Chicago. Can't
    	wait;*)))
    
    		the Greyhawk_who_just_had_his_day_made

We decided to handle this the Digital way. We're loading Future$aver
onto our Alpha using SoftPC so all if us can play. :*) liesl

        RE: .36
        
        I couldn't get the video in my laser disc player and I don't have
        an Intel based PC.
        
        My dog enjoyed both the video and the program.  The floppy has
        been recycled, minus the metal bits.  The video case is history,
        but the tape is being enjoyed many pets in the neighborhood.
        
        Dave Znaiewski

    Re: .34 - 0 in the grandfathered field means that you were hired after
    July 1, 1979.  A good statement should show the same amount for accrued
    monthly benefit on both sides, i.e. under the "Future$aver" section and
    under the "Information About...." section.

    When do we receive the Nintendo and/or Sega-Genesis version?

    RE: 
    >Re: .34 - 0 in the grandfathered field means that you were hired after
    >    July 1, 1979. 
    
    
    	After? I thot it was before?
    
    Deb

No, after.  If the figure is non-zero, you were hired before.

			Steve

    
    
    	I found another problem.  At least it looks like a problem to me!
    	I was born Dec 4, 1938.  the program tells me I will be 56 in 1996!
    	I turn 57 in 1996 albeit not till December.  Maybe it goes for the
    	average age?  Anyway, If I said I was going to retire  in year "X"
    	then it shows me having one less year of DIgital longivity because
    	it must assume I will retire on Jan 1 of that year???  Or something
    	like that!  Confusing but maybe there is some fine print about
    	assumptions made.  Like retiring on your anniversary date and the
    	age is really tied to that???  Who knows?
    
    	

I have a current income that is subject to Federal TAX and State TAX but not 
subject to FICA or MEDICARE.   This income will continue and is not related to 
SS retirement or Digital Retirement.

Where would one list this and how to list it in this program.

Thanks, Al

    RE: .34 and .41 
    
    How do you know that the pension statements with different amounts in
    the accrued monthly benefit section on each side are "bad statements" 
    Mine has different numbers on each side, and I end up with a retirement
    pension in Future$aver that is *much* lower than the amount on my
    statement...  And I run out of mony at 75 or something  :-(
    
    Is there a thread on the pension statements somewhere that I have
    missed?  
    
    

    I belive the different numbers listed on each side in .47 are the
    values if you left Digital today and the value if you stay here until
    age 65.  Unless you are already 65, these values would be different.

Oh!  Mine are the same on both sides.  I got my (only) statement last week.  I
was wondering,because the numbers match, if that means I got a corrected
statement the first time...

    the software bombed twice; the last one when I went into the
    long section with special expenses added. My first attempt
    using the middle choice just hang the system.
    
    Also has anyone actually talked to a human being when you call
    the 800-number?? I gave up after a while!
    
    

> Also has anyone actually talked to a human being when you call
> the 800-number?? I gave up after a while!

I got one.  She couldn't answer my question, and neither could her
supervisor.  But she was very pleasant.

___Pete

	Had a great evening with the wife trying to figure out how to 
	retire at 50 and still eat :-( last night.  Along the way we got a 
	response from the 'full' planner that shows needs and resources after 
	retirement.  Our 'what-if-we' said the money would run out at the next 
	year after retirement at 60 and that 101 of 100 people lived this 
	long after retirement!  

	It discovered the fountain of youth and sponteneous generation?
	It was a good laugh anyway.  Lots of interesting decisions and 
	assumptions to make.  

	Dave

	I found a bug in the Future$aver software. The
	"Change your PIN" option does not work. And since
	I promptly forgot my original PIN, I was unable to
	retrieve my previously saved data.

		:^(	John

Was the disk write-protected when you tried to change your PIN?

-steve-

    
    y'know - this Future$ave thing is like opening a Pandora's box!
    
    I went through the full-blown exercise, hoping to get some (online)
    Help along the way - that was wishful thinking - and then realize
    that to really make the result meaningful to me, I really could
    a human being to help and discuss options, assumptions, consequences,
    etc. The glossary was OK but that's not the answer. I think one needs a CPA,
    financial planner and a Digital Benefits guru together to really
    have a go at this!
    
    Hey, I'm an optimist - I'll give another run now that the corrected
    pension statement has arrived!
    
    

    
    What's the rule of thumb (just for grins, since it is entire
    individualistic) to estimate the premium for medical care in
    my wise old age? I didn't factor that it under "special
    expenses" in retirement. Is $2000/yr (current $$) realistic
    for a healty individual? Too much?

My mom paid over $100 a month for medical insurance from the AARP, which covered
a portion of the expenses not paid by Medicare, and up to $500 in medicine with a
$100 deductible, if I remember correctly.  $2000/month would probably get you
better coverage on medicine, and that would be wise.  But then there's the nursing
home.

The $500 covered about a month and a half of her medicine (congenital heart disease,
which is treatable -- she lived to 92).  It covered nothing of nursing home
expense.

Medicaid will (currently) but you can own no property, etc., depending on the state
you live in.

It's going to get interesting as the baby boom hits retirement. 

    Just spoke to the Benefits Express rep. after holding the phone for
    about 10 mins.  She said that they are especially busy in the mornings,
    it gets lighter about mid-afternoon, and then it gets busy again later
    in the day into the evening.
    
    Don't forget that you have to talk to a rep. to change your %
    contribution, so make that call.
    
    Mark

    
    
    -1 Mark, really, I have to speak with a rep to change % contribution?
       The quickie guide said that can be done over the phone. I have a
       different problem though - I tried 3 times to access the 800-system
       using my VERY OWN pin, which worked 2 days ago, and now it said
       the PIN doesn't matched. The human rep (yep, got one, what a 
       surprise!) said my PIN is the right one on record, so I don't
       know...
    
    Mr Greyhawk ---
       Someplace before somewhere, there was a discussion around
       'recommended' %'s for fund contribution. I'm leaning towards
    	Stock A, B and the I'nal fund evenly. Comments?
    
    -2 or so...
       The nursing home thing - you know, I wasn't planning on being
       in one at all. Then I wonder whether I'm being Polyannish here.
       Again for the sake of going thru the exercise, and since I don't
       have a clue what this costs entails, would anyone pipe in with
       numbers and roughly what service/benefits that number gives me?
    
       PS - Yes, I have along way to retire (defn: working for someone
       else) officially, but the goal is 50 or sooner! This appl doesn't
       allow anything <55, how did you get it to work for 50?
    
       the goal is 50 or less! 

would indicate that the probability of your being in a nursing
home is smaller than a woman's; i.e., you will probably kick off
earlier.  Your wife, should you have one, may be more fortunate
or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it.   You may also
be interested in leaving some sort of estate for your children.

Nursing home costs vary a lot.  Services range from letting you
buy an apartment or condo with nearby health services, to total
care: washing, feeding, nursing (R.N.) availability, administering
the medicine, "room", linen, newsletter to your faraway relatives,
"social director", access to hospital care, etc.

In the small town in a southwestern state where my mom was, there
were two nursing homes in the area.  One, with no round-the-clock
RN, offered a cinder-block room about the size of two cubes for
about half of the cost of the one where I put her ($1500/month and
increasing regularly).

We were lucky; although the room was shared, it wasn't cinder-block,
the food and atmosphere were good, there was an RN and pharmacist
on-site and a once-a-week clinic with a visiting paramedic.  Although
the AARP would provide cheaper medicine, Catch-22 makes it difficult
to implement when the dosage and types of medication varies a lot;
you (your kid -- the responsible person) has to notify the AARP of
the change in medication, they verify it with the doctor, and then
mail it.  You need it this evening?  Well... 

Now.  That was all *very* cheap compared to costs in this area (I checked
to see what it would cost so she could be nearer to me).

So, you are wise to plan ahead, not only for yourself, but your family.
An estate lawyer would be a good person to talk to.

    
    	Re:-1
    
    	Admirable goal to say Adios at 50. I'm shooting for 60!!! Too many
    	kids.
    
    	As for 401 (k) buckets, I like 30% in PIMCO (bonds are now IN),
    	30% Wells Fargo (hard to beat an Index Fund over time), 20% in
    	Putnam (tech stocks rule), and 20% in Templeton (foreign markets
    	help to spread overall risk/reward).
    
    	Just sock it away and forget it for, say, ten years; and I'll bet
    	you like what you see in 2005.
    
    	Best regards.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    My mom is my dependent, basically, because she has no income other than
    social security (about $600 a month before Medicare).  However, she has
    chosen to convert her standard Medicare to an HMO plan, Aetna Senior
    Care.  It is a very nice plan, but does not, of course, cover many days
    in a "care facility", so we will still be in a bind if there is a major
    or permanent care issue.
    
    On the other hand, normal/regular medical expenses are reduced to a
    minimum.  There's no additional premium to pay beyond the Medicare A &
    B deductions from her Soc Sec stipend, and the doctors visit is $5,
    prescriptions are $6 (up to $1200/year, with an inflation increase 
    every year).  It covers a lot of hospital care and such at no co-pay, 
    too.  I highly recommend such a conversion plan for anyone with an 
    elder parent, and am certainly hoping they still exist when it's my 
    turn to retire!  
    
    M.
    
    (***CAUTION*** When helping your elder parent choose or selecting your
    own HMO conversion, *read* the coverages and limitations
    *carefully*.  The biggest differences we've found are in how the
    various HMOs deal with prescriptions and covered days of
    hospital/hospice/in home/care, etc., and some of them are a big
    rip-off, when you get down to the actual Ts & Cs!!  The best ones, like
    regular HMOs, are those that allow you to choose a primary care
    physician from a list of medical groups and independent physicians 
    associations, IMHO!)
    
    

    I've looked into these for my mother, but unfortunatly, I've heard that
    this is a "pilot program" only available in 10 states. It is available
    in MA, but not NH (where my mother lives).
    
    Deb

    The PIN number bug gets me also.  Anytime I do an analysis, I cannot go
    back to that info due to "wrong PIN #".
    
    Anyone else have this problem or know of a solution?