Conference 7.286::digital

    Not only is this an extremely popular service, it's a great example
    of the types of things that can be done with DEC machines and VTX.
    Customers were amazed when I would be talking about VTX, and explain
    one way that we were using it, namely to disseminate the AP news
    for those who were interested.
    
    I hope you get the funding.
    
    Gil

Guess we'll just have to get our news from TASS.

M.

    I strongly suggest that if funding is an issue that you check with
    Marketing/Sales.  I believe it is an impressive demonstration
    application.

    I was surprised when I saw that notice last night when I tried to
    access the AP News.
    
    I was equally surprised this morning to find it was working again.
    
    I wonder what's the scoop?
    
    -  David

    re. .2 >maybe we'll have to get our news from TASS
    
    In fact, now through the wonders of modern technology, The US gets
    the news from TASS before the MUSCOVITES read it.
    
    How?
    
    We access the satelite transmission of PRAVDA from Moscow to Khabarovsk
    (Pacific Coast of USSR) and print the news in Washington 6 - 8 hours
    before it is printed in Moscow.                                

Probably the cc manager for the VTX develeopment group is tired of paying
over $300 a month for it.  They recently got reorganized, and maybe the new 
mgr doesn't want to keep it up.

As the original negotiator of the contract with AP, I can say that if you
yank the AP around by wanting the service on this week and off the next,
changing billing addresses, wanting them to use a different PO number, etc,
they will turn us off.   They are doing us a favor by selling us the
service at all - we are not their business - and at a super discount
besides.  The AP guy in charge of adminstering these contracts has better
things to do than keep up with our internal squabbles.  This boat can not
be rocked. 

The AP Wire is gone again.

The SISCOM service, which brought us TASS, has been up less then one day in
thirty this year.

"Legal issues" are mentioned.  I wonder if some pseudo-conscientious person
who isn't familiar with "fair use" is worried about posting of AP articles
in ongoing discussions in Easynet conferences.

/john

    
    
    
    		Is there anyone maintaining SISCOM??? Will it
    	ever be up???? Or is it that to many people have it up
    	all the time on their terminal and won't release it???
    
    								8-(
    								Charlie

    I walked over to Linda Benson's desk, and spoke with her about the
    problem.  NAC marketing uses the service a lot, and I assured her
    that there was some money available to solve the problem.  Linda 
    mentioned that the service is costing $100/month, but that is not 
    the problem.  The initial contract agreement talked about engineers 
    using the feed as a way to do performance testing on VTX products.  
    Today, the service is used by thousands of employees all over the world,
    and in many network (and other) demonstrations.  There are in effect,
    thousands of subscribers.  The AP has discovered our use of it, and 
    wants to renegotiate the contract.  Linda does not know the details 
    of how much it will cost to turn it back on, or even if it's possible 
    to get the contract set up correctly, but is very anxious to bring the 
    service back to the Easynet.  I also think she was serious in not 
    wanting a lot of mail on the subject, as she understands what it means 
    to those that use it.
    
    bill

    |Many forwardings removed.
    |
    |
    
    
       	From:	NYOB::MORGASEN      8-JUN-1987 13:23
	To:	MANANA::VAXVTX
	Subj:	Associated Press News Wire on VTX

	To whom it may concern:


    My name is Howard Morgasen. I am the Associated Press Account Manager
    in New York City. AP has recently attended our Network Van Seminar and
    has recently been given several demonstrations of VTX. They are
    impressed with our capability, however they are not real impressed with
    the misuse of the AP Newswire Feed that Digital gets. The manager I am
    dealing with at AP did some checking and says that the low cost line we
    are getting is just for us to check and see if our equipment works with
    their newswire, It is not for distribution worldwide over our easynet.
    This manager has voiced his concerns in a letter to Henry Anconna. I
    wanted to let you VTX people know so you will have some time to come up
    with some answers. 

    Please let me know what the status is on this situation. Thank You. 



	Regards,

	Howard Morgasen
	Associated Press Account Manager
	dtn 333-6314
	VAXMAIL  NYOB::MORGASEN
    

    Considering the amount of users, I reckon we should be able to pay
    almost ANY price for this. All it takes is to negotiate a realistic
    price and then we pay it.
    
    I look forward to the AP's return with great optimism.

	Sounds like our Software Licensing people have been talking to AP!

    
       The ap wire services have been available to DEC since 1982. 
    As a ongoing test of VTX we use AP to test the VTX access all over
    the world.
    Reggie
    

    The MKO engineering folks moved the satellite receiver cable from
    where it was to the uVax in my cube over the weekend.  With any
    luck, SISCOM should be back on the air on a full-time basis by the
    end of this week.
    
    Will try to remember to post the news here when it's ready.
    
    Jon

    Please explain SISCOM and how it works.  Is it a VTX application?

SISCOM is an information provider which sends us data via a microwave link.  We
receive the data and, with a VTX application, massage it into a VTX infobase.

It contains 15 minute delayed market data (not just NYSE, but almost all
securities reported on the ticker) and selected stories from several wire
services, among them AP, UPI, Agence Presse France, Deutsche Pressen-Agenture,
NOTIMEX, TASS, both nationalist and communist Chinese agencies, Japan, and
the Gulf States.

Its AP service is *not* a viable replacement for our previously existing AP
service, which was much better.  SISCOM did not carry all stories, and tended
to keep a much shorter database of old stories.  Also, everytime it was reloaded
it lost all stories -- a problem it may or may not continue to have under Jon's
care and feeding.

Here is what the market monitor it provides looks like:  (Each individual can
store set of ticker codes to retrieve a specific set of securities.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| SISCOM IP |                   S & P Market Monitor               | SISCOM IP |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symbol   GMC      Bid     Ask    High     Low    Last  Change   Volume     Ticks
01 DEC   NYSE                  158.38  156.13  156.25    .25-    6693P ===+==== 
02 T     NYSE                   36.00   25.63   26.00    .50+   18140P -======= 
03 IBM   NYSE                  160.38  157.88  160.25   3.00    16557P =+=-==+= 
04 DGN   NYSE                   34.50   33.00   33.38    .88-    1489P +-=+==-+ 
05 GWII  NMS     6.38    6.63    6.63    6.38    6.63              13P +- =+- + 
06 PPC   NYSE                    3.88    3.75    3.88               9P +=-+- +=
07 BS    NYSE                   15.00   14.63   14.88    .13+    2803P +======= 
08 MDR   NYSE                   28.75   28.13   28.75    .50+     440P +=+=-+-+ 
09 MGRC  NMS    13.75   14.50   13.75   13.75   13.75    .25-      13P =- -=+ - 
10 BAX   NYSE                   22.88   22.38   22.75    .38+    6274P +=-===== 
11 SLB   NYSE                   44.25   43.50   43.88    .63+    4103P ====+-+= 
12 HMSB  NMS    12.25   12.50   12.38   12.00   12.25    .25+     316P =====+-= 
13 BGENF NMS    10.63   10.75   10.88   10.50   10.75    .13+     962P =====+== 

/john

re: < Note 324.12 by YUPPIE::COLE "I survived B$ST, I think....." >
                             -< Sounds familiar? >-

>	Sounds like our Software Licensing people have been talking to AP!

Or perhaps the other way around?

:-)   greg

    I'm not sure how they work nowadays, but when I worked in a radio
    station a few years ago, we had both an AP and UPI teleprinters
    cranking away in the back room. We were constantly tearing off hardcopy
    to read over the air.  Couldn't we sell this concept of having a
    system to gather stories (like we've been doing with AP) for a newsroom
    in a TV , radio station or newspaper?  Seems to be that we might
    be HELPING AP to sell their service.  Why don't we get together
    in a cooperative marketing agreement with AP and package up a computer
    driven AP newswire?  There are LOTS of things that can be done with
    news stories when they are properly categorized into a database.
    
    Seems that we could be working with AP to help move them into new
    technology, and help move US unto the news industry.  (and get the
    wire at low cost...)
    
    Any thoughts..?
    
    Gil
    

re .-1  Why don't you contact the sales rep for AP, Howard Morgasen, with your
idea instead of talking about it where he won't see it.

/john

>re .-1  Why don't you contact the sales rep for AP, Howard Morgasen, with your
>idea instead of talking about it where he won't see it.

We talk about things here where (most) people wont see it to get the input of 
fellow workers who's opinions we value.

We've got one.

        Mike

    re: .13 "since 1982"
        We've actually had it a hell of a lot longer than that. We used
    to be in the business of supplying turnkey typesetting systems to
    newspapers. We ran both AP and UPI into PDP-8's and PDP-11's for
    years and years for development and testing (even into VAXen for
    a short time.
    
    re: .19 "packaging"
        Funny, but somehow having been involved with graphic arts
    engineering and the old GAPL, it seems as though this discussion
    is now coming full circle. What you're suggesting, Gil, was a large
    part of how VTX came into being.
    
    -Jack
    

    re: .22
    Don't forget the venerable PDP10. We had several copies of AP wire
    (for backup) and UPI coming into dual PDP11's interfaced to dual KA10's
    at Palm Beach Newspapers. The two other sister installations at
    the Kansas City Star and London Ontario Free Press had similar 
    setups. This was during the '70's.
    
    Getting the AP feed into a computer is actually pretty old stuff.
    The wire service protocol is 'owned' by ANPA:  American Newspaper
    Publishers Association. Once news is encoded in that standard, when
    it gets into the system, it is automatically routed to the appropriate
    editor's terminal, properly ranked according to its priority. 
    
    Prior to direct input we had paper tape. The tape was encoded in
    TTS: TeleType Setting code. You could feed the paper tape into PDP8's,
    IBM 1620's, 1130's, 1401's or RCA 301's. You could also hang it directly
    on a line caster (hot metal) or on a Phototypesetter. 1960's technology.
    
    Standing in the controlled bedlam of a press room, you could also
    impress novices by simply running the tape through your fingers
    and reading it.  
     
    Most contemporary newspapers with computer editing systems 
    use the "hard copy" only for backup in case the direct input wire 
    goes down.
    
    VTX - AP is lovely technology. It had nice ancestors, too.
                                                 
    

A 'real' AP subscription shouldn't cost too much more than an average
DEC salesperson's annual salary.

I would like  to  suggest  that  such  an  investment would sell more
copies of VTX (and  associated  DEC  hardware/software)  than  a real
salesperson installed in any one spot.

Won't need a car, vacation or benefits pkg either.

Lee

    I was sure someone would straighten me out eventually...
    
    I guess you don't know if a new idea has already been thought of
    unless you say 'Hey! Why don't we....'.
    
    Thanks for the history...I love reading that kind of stuff about
    DEC.
    
    

    I am the "once and future" sales support for the Associated Press.
    They are headquartered in New York.  The "once" part is that in
    1976 I was the junior member of DEC's largest project in the old
    "Mid Atlantic Region", fault-tolerant PDP-11/45's using DA28's to
    talk to a pair of DECsystem-10's (KI flavor), my part in the automation
    of the financial news service was the presentation of the NASDAQ
    data.
    
    The "future" part of it is that we may have new major project
    opportunities some ten years later at the AP.  How'd you'd like to see
    wire photo pixmaps on your VAXstation?  By the way, I currently support
    Reuters NA and the New York Stock Exchange. 
    
    As for "our" problem, it's tough to get one cost center to pay the
    subscription fees to news services, even tougher to get it added
    to all the cost centers as a "tax".  You gotta pay if you want to
    play.                    

    Perhaps we should look at the good side.  VTX has finally been accepted
    for what it is.  A technique for distributing information, such
    as the AP newswire to THOUSANDS!!! of people at a very reasonable
    cost.  If the AP takes it seriously, other customers will too.
    
    By the way, I've asked the Easynet management people to use their
    trend machines to see what the difference in MKO traffic is.  We've
    had that traffic pattern for a few years... especially at lunchtimes.
    
    bill

    A couple of things:
    
    As for network traffic, I suspect that AP news may have had an
    interesting lunchtime impact.  The solution is to distribute the
    infobase to various sites, which isn't all the hard since the AP
    news updating scheme we used utilized the distributed update
    capabilities of VTX (yet another wonderful demo...).  The machine
    that created the input files was different than the venerable PYGMY.
    Placing a few remote machines out there (say, one in ZK, one in the
    mill, one someplace else) would result in a little update traffic,
    and a greatly reduced network load.  If we ever get it back...
    
    In terms of VTX and AP news, since I keep getting these phone calls
    from SWS folks asking how it was done because this customer or that
    customer wants to install it, I have the suspicion there's a market
    need for such a service.  This is a new world for AP.  They have
    made the bulk of their money from newspapers, radio, and television.
    Sales to large corporations is not something they are geared to
    handle.  It would seem that a cooperative marketing program with
    AP would be in order.  I assume there will be a fairly large price
    to pay to AP for each service, probably charging the same per employee
    that it charges each newspaper for each subscriber.  Nevertheless,
    there is a market need, and it would be an opportunity for both
    DEC and AP.
    
    And before anyone calls (I'm never in my office, anyway), the details
    are in BOEBNR::SYS$APNEWS:.  Good selling!
    
    john
    

Notice that the AP is not in business to make a profit.  It is an
*association* of newspapers and radio/TV stations that share stories. The
UPI worked differently;  they tried to make a profit, and had their own
reporters.  They failed, partly because the AP does *not* have to make a 
profit.

So getting the AP to sell directly to end-users is not just a new market
for them.  It is a whole new business model.  Perhaps it can be sold to
them on the basis of reducing the fees the member papers have to pay. 

Remember that newspapers are not in the business of selling news - they are
in the business of selling advertising space.  The news and features are
there to get you to read the ads.  Providing another outlet for their news 
that has the chance of reducing their subscription count will not interest 
them much.  Unless we can somehow make it worth their while.

	Unless we get that on-line picture capability mentioned before, 
ideally in COLOR, and include the funnies in the info-base, I won't stop 
buying a newpaper subscription just because I can read the AP newswire at 
1200 baud on my home VT100!  And I wonder if we really capture ALL the stuff 
that is on it, as I have seen some AP articles in my paper that I couldn't 
find ANY trace of the the info-base.

	Definitely think we have a plum here, if we can figure out how to sell 
it!

SISCOM is up on its new home:  TIXEL""::"247="

Jon Arnold got it working during the afternoon and left on a business trip; my
instructions were to announce its availability if it seemed to stay working,
which it has so far.

The SISCOM folks should really take a look at the way we had things organized
in our AP service; articles in SISCOM do not seem to be clearly ordered in any
particular chronological order; sometimes it's oldest first, sometimes newest
first.  The AP article titles are usually just the city, and nowhere near all
of the AP's articles are available.  Only a few hours worth of stories seem
to be retained sometimes, other times a whole day's worth are kept.

But I really like having non-U.S. services, especially AFP, DPA, and TASS.

/john

    Looks good - I've been playing with SISCOM for a 1/2 hour now. No problems
    to report.
    
    s.

    Can someone pls tell me exactly how to access SISCOM?  I have seen
    an explanation somewhere either here or in the INVESTING conference
    but cannot get it to work.
    
    Thks......Charlie
    

To access SISCOM (assuming normal VTX setup on your machine)

$ define/user vtx$server "tixel""""::""247="""
$ vtx

Warning: if SISCOM is unavailable, and your system has VTX$SERVER01 defined,
you'll end up there, not at SISCOM.

/john

    Thanks for the prompt answer.  Your 'warning' does seem to be my
    problem...I get our 'normal' VTX menu.  How can I get around that?
    
    Thks.......Charlie
    

    If you can't access SISCOM, you may want to check out what your
    local network database thinks TIXEL is.  If the definition that
    John laid out in an earlier note doesn't get you to TIXEL, try the
    following definition for VTX$SERVER:
    
    	DEFINE/USER VTX$SERVER 32035::"""247="""
    
    If that doesn't work either, then must assume that TIXEL must not
    be reachable from wherever you're trying to get to it from.
    
    Good luck
    
    Jon

    Thks Jon but still no luck.  I presume my local network database
    knows what TIXEL is since I can do a DIR TIXEL:: and see some of
    the files there.  Any other ideas?  I will try to get some help
    from our local experts.
    
    Thks.....Charlie
    

One reason you can skip over to the failover server is that the maximum
number of connections TIXEL is willing to accept is exhausted.

I don't know how much Jon can increase the number of links he can take.

It would be nice of some site servers could be set up to know about this so
that we could get some connection groups going.  This is the only way the
AP wire was able to handle the load.

/john

    Any possibility of adding SISCOM to the corporation VTX library
    						Rob

Some ambitious soul could take a look at the format in which SISCOM 
delivers the news stories and translate them into VTX/APMS (automatic page 
management service) format.  APMS then takes care of the details of 
building indexes and assigning page numbers.   This is how the AP software 
did it.  Then throw away the SISCOM-supplied software.

Time retention of stories is an attribute of the processing program, not
the information feed.  I think sources to the AP formatter are available
somewhere.

    I haven't been able to get to SISCOM all day, TIXEL is reachable
    and there appears to be an object 247 there but connects to it time
    out.
    
    Dave

Same here and it only reports 1 link on that or any object [except the one 
I was looking with].  Just the 1 link on 247.

SISCOM has always tended to get jammed; the move to TIXEL was part of an
attempt to get someone (Jon Arnold) who cared about having it running to
find out why and get it fixed.  He's on a business trip, but maybe if he
logs in he can take a look at what's happening and reboot, and when he
gets back I know he has been in touch with the SISCOM people; together I
feel confident they can fix it.

/john

    If anyone is feeling real ambitious, the AP sources are located
    in BOEBNR::SYS$APNEWS:.  It's an odd mix of DCL, FORTRAN, BASIC,
    and a little BLISS.
    
    john

I've also noticed that the news stories are "Print or Save Restricted".

I confess, I like to extract some box scores and standings from the sports 
section.  Is this deliberate or some sort of SISCOM/VTX incompatibility?

    Re: .45
    
>I've also noticed that the news stories are "Print or Save Restricted".
>
>	...Is this deliberate or some sort of SISCOM/VTX incompatibility?

    The SISCOM service is based on VAX VTX...
    
    -  David

    This behaviour can be caused by your running VTX V2.n whereas the
    server is useing VTX V3.

Since the SISCOM server is using VTX V2 and I have received the PRINT or SAVE
RESTRICTED message from SISCOM with VTXPAD V2 and V3, I suspect that SISCOM is
deliberately restricting the copyrighted stories, unaware of the doctrine of
fair use, which permits extracts to be used in discussions.

The VTX feature of restricting PRINT or SAVE is a misfeature, since almost
anyone can figure out another way to get the text out.  Examples are SET HOST
0/LOG, use of a Rainbow or Professional terminal emulator, VWS Terminal Cut
and Paste, etc.

/john

    If it makes you feel any better, *I* didn't put anything into my
    TIXEL VTX server to restrict print or save.  In fact, since I'm
    not a real VTX heavy, if there's something I could do to allow print
    or save (outside of modifying SISCOM source code, which I don't
    have access to), I'd be happy to do so.
    
    I'd love to talk to a VTX heavy about how to make the SISCOM service
    more available.  There appears to be a bug, either in the SISCOM
    code or in the ELK code, which is why (I think?) it isn't always
    available.  I've also posted this request in the VTX conference,
    and the only current suggestion is to relink against the newest
    version of DSL, which I hope will take place by the end of the week.
    
    Jon

    It's been about 3 weeks.   Anyone know what is the prognosis?

>BMT::COMAROW
>It's been about 3 weeks.   Anyone know what is the prognosis?

The salesman responsible for AP and for this debacle works in your office.  Is
he doing anything to resolve the problem?

/john

    Yup.  He cancelled a meeting with me.

	*** Posted in HUMAN::DIGITAL and BMT::INVESTING ***

	Since this seems to have generated much interest, let me give
	a brief background and then the current status of SISCOM.  I
	first became aware of SISCOM because I worked closely with one
	of the SISCOM developers at DECville 86 in France.  The SISCOM
	service was available to each & every one of the DECville 86
	attendees via his "community services" ALL-IN-1 account.  It
	was very successful, especially with attendees from all over
	Europe being able to find out what's happening news-wise back
	in good ol' Munich/Paris/Stockholm/Madrid etc. etc.

	On returning to the US, I found that SISCOM was available in
	Merrrimack, but running on a Microvax I.  Also, due to lack of
	time to do care & feeding, it was going to go away.  I view
	SISCOM as a valuable service to Digital employees, but even
	more, a very nice whiz-bang demo in almost any presentation, I
	didn't want to see it go away, so I volunteered to take it over
	running on the Microvax II in my cube here in MKO (TIXEL).

	Since it was first available on TIXEL (around 17-Jun-87), there
	have been some problems.  I have been devoting more time to this
	spare-time project that I'd care to admit, but I think it's coming
	along, especially via the gracious help of Bill Allendoerfer who knows
	what he's doing with VTX (whereas I do not).  I posted a few
	questions in the VTX notesfile, and it was suggested there that
	it may be a bug within an older version of DSL.  I've been working
	with my friend at SISCOM to get a copy of SISCOM which is linked
	with DSL V1.2 which, if that is indeed the problem, should
	eliminate the all-too-frequent not available messages.

	To access SISCOM, just enter VTX SISCOM from your local area's
	VTX server.  The area VTX pages *should* have knowledge of SISCOM
	already.  If they do not, please contact your area VTX manager
	and request that it be updated.  Object 247 on TIXEL will be
	going away very soon, which will ONLY allow access via your area
	concentrator.  Please do not access SISCOM directly.

	One last note: please be aware that there are many people within
	Digital who would like to access this information.  I've noticed
	that there are a handful of people who *always* have a live
	connection established during the entire day.  I cannot see
	where it is necessary to have an 8 hour SISCOM session going?
	If you want to check DEC stock prices 15 times/day, then connect
	15 separate times, don't just connect once & leave it.  I want to
	attempt to make this service available as much as possible to as
	many employees as possible.  (And with any luck, with as little
	intervention from me as possible).

	Thanks --
	Jon

    re: .53
    
       >To access SISCOM, just enter VTX SISCOM from your local area's
       >VTX server.
    Ok Jon, I must be doing something wrong... At what prompt do you
    enter this?  Or is this supposed to be a choice on the menu?
    If I enter "VTX SISCOM" from the normal prompt, or from the
    command? prompt, I get invalid response messages.
    Thanks,
    Kevin 

SISCOM is available to be listed on menus dated June 25th or later.

The prompt is your (VMS) system (DCL) prompt.
_bill

Are you saying that it's possible to get

	VTX mumble

to take you to something in the corporate library directly?  I've
never been able to get anything that way.

	VTX LIBRARY

will take me directly to the LIBRARY page, but then I have to select
things from the menu.

/john

Here is the list that will take you directly to the infobase
For example>VTX SISCOM
For example>VTX EASYNOTES

(where "For example>" is your VMS system prompt)


    KEYNAME                          INFOBASE

ADS             ADS Newsletter
AIM             Artificial Intelligence Marketing VTX System
ASD             ASD Software + Documentation Services
AUSSIETEX       AUSSIETEX
BOIS            BOIS Customer Reference Accounts
BOSS            BOSS - Bulletin Board of Sales Support
BUFFERS         Buffers
CISM            Consultant & Information Sys.Mktg.(CISM)
CORPFIN         Corporate Finance Policies
CRA             CRA Research Quarterly
CSSE            CSSE MIS Infobase
CSSE_PROCESS    CSSE PROCESS BOOK
CVP             Corporate Videotex Program (CVP)
DATAMAN         Data Management Source Catalogue
DIET            DIET (Dist.Import/Export Training)
DIS             Digital Information Systems (DIS)
DISTRAINING     DIS Training and Education
DSTAR           DIS Strategy, Technology & Architecture (DSTAR)
DSTEG           Distributed Systems Information (DSTEG)
DTEL            Digital Telecommunications (DT)
DTN             DTN Master Listing/By Country
EASYNET         EASYnet Information Directory
EASYNOTES       EasyNet Conferences (EASYNOTES.LIS)
ECS             ECS News (Education Computer Systems)
EDSERV          Educational Services
ERP             CRA External Research Program
EUVTX           European VTX Information
FASTSHIP        FASTSHIP - Parts available for fast shipment
FEVTX           Far East Videotex Services
FGI             Federal Government Field Support
FSFPOL          Field Service Finance Policies and Procedures
GIATELECOM      GIA Telecommunication Support
HUMAN           Software Usability Engineering
IDCMF           IDCMF (Internal Data Center Managers Forum)
IDECUS          IDECUS
IEG             IEG (Internal Equipment Group)
INDEC           In-DEC Field Service Reference Guide
JOBS            Jobs Book
KITSDIR         Easynet Kits Directory
LAW             Law Department
LOS             LOS - Literature Order System
NAC             Network Communications VTX
NASSETS         ASSETS for the Network
OACOURSES       Office Applications Training
OASSETS         OASSETS for the Office Market
OSIRIS          OSIRIS
REFER           REFER
REGISTRY        VTX Registry
RSX             RSX Support
SISCOM          SISCOM Information Services
SOFTBASE        SOFTbase (TM)
SPD             SPDs - Software Product Descriptions
SSGBASE         System SW Group/Base Prod. Mktg.
SSQUAL          Storage Systems Quality Newsletter
TCPMOD          TCP Modifications Register
TDP             CRA Technology Development Programs (TDP)
TOOLSHED        Software Tools Clearinghouse
TRADEMARK       Trademarks
USDISEBB        US/DIS Electronic Bulletin Board
USDISFS         US/DIS Field Support
USDISMAIL       US/DIS US Country Mail
USDISREL        US/DIS Release Management
USSIS           US/SIS - Sales Information Systems
VMGDEMO         VMG (Videotex Marketing Group) Demo
VMSDOC          VMS V.4 Documentation
VMSNEWS         VMS News (VAXworks newsletter)
VMSPERF         VMS V.4 Performance Information
VNS             VOGON News Service	
VTXCOURSE       VTX Introductory Course
VTXFORUM        VTX Forum
VTXNEWS         VTXNEWS - COG VTX/VALU Newsletter

    Re: VTX "whatever"
    
    Hey, it does work...  However VTX siscom said no such keyword....
    
    So, what has to happen to make it a keyword????
    
    Gale

re: -1

The server you are using has to have it's menu/keyword file generated after 
June 25th.  It takes about a week to get all the changes out over the net.
The vtx area managers could execute the .com file GETVTXLIB.com (and
delete the batch job it would create, you don't need two) or copy
the proper files by hand and update their server themselves, however
by default the update procedure runs only once a week.
_bill

    From UCOUNT, I get a message which says there is a h/w problem with
    SISCOM which won't be fixed until at least July 7.  Is this a UCOUNT
    problem or a TIXEL problem, just out of curiosity?
    
    Burns
    

The satelite box sitting in the cube with TIXEL gets nothing.  RCA tested
the link and got nothing.  They are shipping a new box.  It may arrive
by Tuesday (one day to get out, one day in DEC to get delivered), but
the person running the system will be out of the office until the 10th.
If we find someone who wants to hook the new box back into TIXEL (and
we're working on it), it could be back the 7th.  If not, service should return
the 10th.

We belive the TIXEL interface and the VTX set-up can now service 128
users at a time.  But now we arn't getting anything off the satelite link.
It stopped at 5:37 PM Monday.  We decided against displaying out-of-date
stock quotes/news stories.

In fact, this was nearly the last thing we got out of it....

         Not All Aware Of New Research
 WASHINGTON
 The head of the federal government's cancer treatment branch said
 Monday that many cancer patients do not get the best available care
 because their doctors are unaware of the latest research developments.
      "It is my personal belief that this is a national tragedy," said
 Bruce Chabner, head of the National Cancer Institute's treatment section.
      He said the government agency mails information to doctors on new
 treatments, but "whether physicians read it and take it to heart is
 another matter.".
 In addition, physysy 3/4/t parti#ipating`in`3uch`trials`)sJ`
 an`inc/n6eni%nce to`p(ysiciansgg beca5se of the 2eporting req5irem%ntsn
    How%ver, he`said federal officials are Jtry).g to`redu#e the`red tapenJ
 Unli+e convention!l t2%atmen4 where the only`dialogue`is`between
 doctor`and patien4``2e3earchers`(a6eJto`"e +e0t inf/rmed`of pro'ressl
  orMlack`/f it, in clinica, 4rialsn 
`S5c(`trials`are`reqUired "efor% 4heMF/od`and Drug.
 Administratio.`'rants gener!l approV!l &or .ew drugsn-I "Itgs
 a`to5gh`jo"`for`a patient ifJtheir`physician`iSn't`willing to
 participa4e`in clinical t2ials,g' Chabner Told the House Energy and
 Co-Merce he!lth s5bcommit4ee.
 He said many pat)entS coUld benefit if Their doctors would refeR
 them to canceR centers or tO otheR phySicians-who specIaLize in caNcEr
   treatment aNd Keep themsElvEs abReast of develOpments
 He noTed that The natio 7/8Al caNcer-institutE has a t 1/4 5/8-free
public-hotline 1-800--canceR tHat ca 7/8cer-patients can call tOfynd
 oUt whAt-Clinica 5/8 trials are available And get=:thelcatio 7/8s of
  cancur Treatme 7/8TcenterSaS well aS To obTain morewEnera 5/8
 informatyo 7/8 n canceRtreatment tXe panel7s chayr 3/4a 7/8, Rup He
 7/8rIWqxma 7/8, D=Calyf., said xe fu 7/8d it"s 3/4ewxat a 3/4ajy 7/8w'7
    that somephysisiq 7/8s shw a "reluctance trever'7 q 7/8d suwgusted 
  yt0cu 5/8d stemfro 3/4 a 3/4isguidet 7/8otin that such referrqlc wuld  be
 "an ad 3/4yssio 7/8 fdufeat o 7/8 their part'7: Cxabner's testimony 
 came!uriwhearing!o review a report by the General Ac/nting Office on
 canqyLatientur Oal statistics from 1950to 19 1/42.
 ThyJpOh s icized by Chabner and Jo 5/8n Laszlo, ' Americqn Cancer 
:oiety's vic9

			Press HELP for options.

I was beginning to wonder when I saw truncated stories in the sports 
section on Monday morning.

I also saw a lot of garbled characters.

I also noticed service getting better and faster [the bionic 'siscom'!].

    The commit in SISCOM is that an update would be provided on July
    14th. 
    
    Update so requested.
    
    Steve.

    OK, update is forthcoming.  Due to all the political brouhaha that
    was raised when AP pulled their plug, there is now a (*sigh*) committee
    setup to investigate this issue.  I've been talking with the good
    folks at SISCOM and they don't particularly have a problem with
    their product being available to 100K+ Digital employees, but that's
    not really where the problem lies right now.
    
    SISCOM is merely a vehicle to present the information, one large
    VTX/ELK application if you will.  The people who *provide* the
    information (XPress) are somewhat hesitant without a "proper" contract
    in place.  One of their biggest concerns seems to be that they are
    licensed by AP/UPI/etc to provide the info to companies (who purchase
    the product) with the US/Canada.  I don't pretend to understand
    the ramifications, but having that same info available to folks
    in Europe/GIA makes them very uneasy.
    
    So in spite of the hardware problems with SISCOM (which haven't
    been resolved yet but should be this week), I unfortunately cannot
    make SISCOM available to Digital at large until these contractual
    issues have been resolved.
    
    Will keep you posted.
    Jon

    
    	Back to the original question...
    Will the AP news VTX database ever be comming back? I noticed that
    the VTX infobase directory has removed it from their listings.
    
    	I'd even give up a couple of pennies a week to get it back as
    q benefit from Digital!
    
    
    	/John
    

    If someone will make the business case to me or to Howard Morgasen or
    to anyone who has official contact with the Associated Press that
    Digital will pay the ordinary and usual fees for the potential
    redistribution of their data to 100,000 people worldwide, then I'll be
    happy to take your money and your ideas to the Associated Press.

    What are the normal fees?
    

    One guess might be what AP charges for a medium sized newspaper
    of about 100,000 subscribers.  Does anyone know what that might
    be?
    
    john

Anyone out there who can tell me the latest status of SISCOM?

Last I heard, an update message was to be entered on the 23rd, but the 
Corporate VTX around here just deleted SISCOM.

What's happening?

SISCOM, along with 4 other newswires are being reviewed -- negotiations are
now taking place for both SISCOM and AP News -- Gene Kusekoski, with others
on committee are the people to talk with -- we are told soon -- no dates
as yet.

		Marian

Heavens to Little Orphan Annie!

Not [gasp!] *a committe*!?!?!?

Guess it'll never come back.  Oh well.  It was good while it lasted.

It'll be back as soon as DIS can figure out a way to get your cost center to
pay for your use of it.

/john

    re .73, 

Just as I would subscribe to a newspaper, I would 'subscribe' to SISCOM [as 
it appeared when it was 'cleaned' for a few days] or AP itself.  This [to 
me] means anywhere from $1.00 to $5.00 per week.  Just like a newpaper.  I 
realize the analogy breaks down a little farther down the road, but it's as 
close as I can come.  [For instance, a newspaper scrapbook is harder to 
make and keep than one made from a terminal because of the convenience of 
the terminal].

USA Today would be another one.  At one point, they were available on 
CompuServe [but are no more].  Why is it we always get these neat services 
on-line?  Then they get taken away for funding/copyright/whatever reasons 
and then start to fade in the sunset.

Jon, you did a great job with Siscom while it was there.  I don't mean to 
get mad at anybody, if it sounds like I did.  I just hate getting my 
appetite whetted.

    I'd be glad to pay out of my own pocket also.  My CC probably would
    never approve of paying for News.  It is hard to get them to pay
    $35 a year for DECUS publications..

It's not just a question of money, or DIS policies.  SISCOM's sources
do not have the rights to publish their information in some of the places
DECNET goes.  When it all gets sorted out as to WHO we even have to deal
with, SOMETHING might return.  Right now, it's not clear who can speak
for AP news in Eur. and G.I.A, for example..
_bill

    RE .71 .72
    
    "Committee - a life form with six or more legs, and no brains."
           _Lazarus Long_

>No more notes about $, please.. this is not a telethon
>
>It's not just a question of money, or DIS policies.  SISCOM's sources
>do not have the rights to publish their information in some of the places
>DECNET goes.

Just because SISCOM has to resolve the issue of where the info goes doesn't
mean that's the only issue.  SISCOM also isn't the only service.  Although
I like SISCOM for the info *in*addition*to* the AP news which it provides,
our direct AP wire connection also needs to come back, as it was much better
organized, much more user-friendly, much easier to use.

But the money issue also is there, since DIS definitely intends to use the
funding issue to make sure that "Digital employees basing business decisions
on external information are using services which are appropriate for their
business needs."

DIS has the explicit assignment of making sure that every service they provide
is accounted for.

/john

The better organization and user-friendliness of the AP database was due to
the software (written by us) that built the VTX database, not the feed from
the AP.  SISCOM gets the same raw feed; they just massage it differently. 

I don't understand this issue of "the right to distribute information in 
Europe".  Who is claiming that such a right does not exist?  Who grants 
such rights?  Reuters is available in the USA.

The trouble is that a news service is a great deal more expensive than most
people think it is.  The cover price of a newspaper you buy on the street
just about covers the cost of the ink and the paper.  The rest of the
expense (about three-fourths) is paid for by advertising.  A newspaper
without advertising would cost four times as much - would you still buy it?

Assuming DEC did its own distribution (the ink and paper expense), the
remaining information still costs 3 times as much as you are used to buying
a newspaper for, due to the missing ad subsidy.  Is the convenience really
worth it? 

I hope somthing gets ironed out so that some kind of live newsbase can be
available on the screens at DECworld.

As an impressive demo of VTX/DECnet/Networks/Digital it is hard to beat.

Lee

    Digital has received permission from SISCOM/XPRESS to demo at DECworld,
    and plans are being made as such.  With any luck, a firm contract
    will be in place by the time DECworld finishes so that the SISCOM
    service can remain available.
    
    Jon

    I'll give you my interpretation of the status of the AP News service.
    I have not been directly involved in the negotiations but have been
    staying in touch and trying to influence from the side lines.  
    
    DEC is renegotiating the AP contract ....first for DECworld '87
    and second for ongoing Marketing/Sales demonstration purposes (the
    same appears to be happening for SISCOM/XPRESS).  There are no plans
    currently under consideration to contract with either AP or
    SISCOM/XPRESS for general distribution within Digital...ie for
    placement on the Corporate VTX Library.  I understand that XPRESS
    (the owners of the information supplied by SISCOM) have concerns
    regarding distribution world wide.  With AP, it's probably a cost
    issue.  There have been no defined **business** needs which would
    result in negotiations for a Digital news service with these vendors.
    
    That's my understanding of the status.  Although I would personally
    like to see AP return, I am not hopeful.

This topic is also being discussed in IAMOK::INFOCOM_SHARE.  Those with
buisness needs for a service like AP should enter them there, topic 5.
_bill

I just noticed that Compuserve provides the AP newswire to all its 
subscribers worldwide at no charge.  Maybe DEC could work a similar 
deal as Compuserve has, whatever that is?

Compuserve provides *nothing* at no charge.  You pay by the minute, even
if there is no particular surcharge.

In the case of their AP offering, Compuserve passes a percentage of the
connect-time charge on to the AP.

Sorry, what I meant was no <additional> charge.  My thought was that
perhaps compuserve had solved our problems of global distribution and
cost-effective access for a huge community. 

Compuserve does not get AP for its own internal use, as we have been
talking about here for DEC.  They resell it.  So Compuserve does not
have to justify the expense;  their customers do.

This information condensed from
           <<< IAMOK::NOTES$LIBRARY:INFOCOM_SHARE.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< INFOCOM_SHARE >-
================================================================================
Note 5.11              Justifications for AP News Service               11 of 11

                        -< "NEXIS" for Your News Needs >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    In an attempt to determine if NEXIS can fill the void left by
    the loss of AP news on VTX 
    
    Please take some time to think of questions or areas of interest
    to your business (i.e. JIT) that you would like NEXIS to do a search
    on.  Give me a cross section of areas to be searched.  Make them
    specific and general. Since we are looking for a full service news 
    application, make some of the queries difficult, so we can determine 
    how far the service can stretch for us.  I will send these to NEXIS.  
    Searches are available by subject or source.  There is also a service
    that allows the Subscriber to keep up to date on topics automatically.
    
    Please make sure that you put your name, group and node somewhere
    on your note or reply, so I can get back to you.
    
    For those of you in Marketing, we are working hard to get a contract
    for news wire services for demo purposes, but this will not be on the
    corporate VTX menu.                           
    
    If you have any questions, or if you know of someone that would
    be interested in being on a distribution list for the
    NEXIS product demonstration, please let me know.   The sooner I
    can put this together for NEXIS, the closer we will be to the news
    solution.
    
    Donna Pearson, Information Supply Base Manager
    273-3380
    VRO5-2/D5
    @VRO or DISSRV::PEARSON

    Any news on the AP feeds?

    I was told several weeks ago that AP news is back.  Where it's back
    is anybody's guess, I don't have any idea myself.  I was also told
    that SISCOM is dead due to the prices they were asking for the service
    they provide.  Don't know if I believe that myself, since I know
    the SISCOM folks, I know that *they* knew they were in a very
    competitive situation, and besides, they provided the SISCOM service
    to Digital for almost two years au gratis without losing any sleep
    over it.
    
    If anyone finds out where AP is, please post it here.
    Jon

    According to the person driving the contract, a contract with AP News
    has just been concluded.  It provides for limited research and 
    demonstration usage and is funded by Marketing.  They are about
    to enter into negotiation for an additional contract for a news
    service similar to what we had.  It is not clear what the cost or
    funding requirements will be..or who will provide funding.  Sounds
    like reason for **cautious** optimism.
    

    Well, has anything transpired since December?
    
    -  David

    Regarding SISCOM, the "official" decision was apparently made that
    SISCOM would no longer be used.  I've sent back the RCA controller,
    and the dish left the roof of MKO2 last week.  I've heard that AP
    is available to a few groups, but don't know who or where.
    
    Jon

    Is this topic finished?  Are the AP feeds gone for good?  Is anything
    being considered to replace them?

    
From:	DISSRV::BAPTISTE "15-Aug-1988 1500" 15-AUG-1988 15:02
To:	IAMOK::DELUCO
Subj:	AP News license.  Please respond ASAP.  


+---------------------------+ 
|   |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
| d | i | g | i | t | a | l | 	                INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
|   |   |   |   |   |   |   | 
+---------------------------+ 
                              

 
TO: Distribution         			Date: August 12, 1988 
						From: Renate Baptiste
						Dept: DIS-PURCHASING
						 Ext: 273-5446
cc:             		       Loc/Mail Stop: VRO5-1/X2
	                		     Vaxmail: DISSRV::BAPTISTE
	 			
         
    
Subject: Corporate License with AP News Phase II

ACTION
------

Because of user demand I would like to begin negotiations with AP News for 
a Corporate License for their news databses.

Before negotiations can begin, an assessment must be made, once more
to reevaluate the value and use of this service to Digital.  


I am asking for your immediate reply in a message summary.  Please indicate 
the need and value of AP News to your group.

BACKGROUND
----------

The proposed business relationship with AP News had been divided into three
phases.


PHASE I
------
	A license for demonstration of AP News service on Digital equipment
	and network in a tradeshow or research environment.


PHASE II
-------
	A World-wide license to access and use AP News services in the 
	Digital business environment.


PHASE III
--------
	A possible joint marketing agreement with AP News offered through
	Digital products.



CURRENT STATUS
--------------

PHASE I
-------
	A demo/research agreement has been concluded with AP News.

Digital is allowed to use AP for demonstrations at tradeshows and for
research purposes through a single node. 

At this time corporate access is prohibited until a license is negotiated.


PHASE II
-------
	Is ready to begin if there is still an urgent need to bring AP News
	into Digital and make the service feed available corporate wide 
	through the network.

FUNDING
------
	Funding for this license has to be established and shared by 
	multiple groups within Digital.


Please indicate in your summary whether you are a potential funders for
these services.

Without the shared financial support, a license cannot be established for
Digital.

Please reply as soon as possible.  Forward your information on to my 
assistant, Janis Page  DTN 273-5382, Node: Dissrv::page

I will be on vacation until the first week in September.

Thank you,

Regards,

Renate


    

    Please note that the memo in .96 requests justifications from
    organizations willing to fund the contract.  Please don't inundate
    them with philosophical reasons unless you can dig up some real
    funding.  
    
    Thank you.
     

    This would be of great value at the ACT's where we could demo is
    every day. Possibly the ACT group (Dianne Durkin) would be willing
    to assist.
    
    Steven

    Suggest you extract .96 and mail to Dianne.  

    
    Since August nothing has been said on this issue.  
    
    Any news on getting AP or some alternate feeds?

       Is this a dead issue? Is it 'gone forever'?
                                                    Denny

    Yes,it is a dead issue as far as I know.I complained about this awhile
    back and was told that only VOGON news is reasonably priced so that's
    all DEC will buy.Since VOGON carries mostly British stories,most of us
    Americans don't even select it from VTX.
    
    PS: I'm not knocking VOGON,it's fine,just not the same as AP.

Re: < Note 324.102 by WINERY::BOUCHARKE >

>"...only VOGON news is reasonably priced so that's all DEC will buy."
    
Huh? I thought that "VOGON News" was a strictly voluntary and private
effort by some individual employees, who coordinate their contributions
and send out daily "issues". Thus, DEC doesn't "buy" it, but simply
permits it. 

And as for my opinions on VOGON: I think it's great that DEC does permit 
it; and I commend the "editing and publishing" team for putting out such 
an interesting report every day, while they still [presumably (:-)]
fulfill the responsibilities of their "regular" jobs.

    "reasonably priced" is better stated as "at no price at all to DEC".

    I don't follow this conference, but the last few replies have been
    brought to my attention, so I thought I'd come in and say a few words
    to "set the record straight".
    
    re .102, .103
                                                  
.102> ...only VOGON news is reasonably priced so that's all DEC will buy.
    
.103> Huh? I thought that "VOGON News" was a strictly voluntary and private
.103> effort by some individual employees, who coordinate their contributions
.103> and send out daily "issues". Thus, DEC doesn't "buy" it, but simply
.103> permits it. 
    
    .103 has it exactly right.  (And thanks for the kudos Chuck, I'll make
    sure they get to the rest of the VNS "staff").  Of course, if people
    want to send contributions.....:-)
                                            
.102> Since VOGON carries mostly British stories, most of us Americans
.102> don't even select it from VTX.
.102> PS: I'm not knocking VOGON,it's fine,just not the same as AP.

    Well, yes indeed, VNS carries mostly British stories and sports --
    that's *exactly* why it started -- to provide "home" news to British
    ex-pats on relocation with DIGITAL in other countries, it's not the
    same as AP 'cos it isn't meant to be.  BTW:  VNS also carries a lot of
    computer and technology news which is mostly US in nature.
    
    I've had people (yes, mostly Americans) ask us to cover news from other
    countries (mostly the U.S. :-) before, but it's not our "game";  it's
    not why we started;  it's not what we're interested in doing.  If we
    try to please everybody we will surely fail.  We (British ex-pats) had
    a specific need so we started the VNS to fill that need.  If others
    find that VNS doesn't fill their need then, fine, we don't feel hurt!,
    we *encourage* you to start your own service to fill your need, just as
    we did.  (I think a U.S. daily "netpaper" would be very successful).
    
    BTW: re "most of us Americans don't even select it from VTX".  Are you
    sure? :-)  Of the 6700+ MAIL subscribers, 75% are in the U.S. (45% in
    Massachusetts!).  I don't keep detailed stats of VTX usage (too much
    disk space), but I know (from where the network links come from) that a
    large number of the 2500-3000 subscribers we get per day are from the
    U.S too.
    
    Regards,
    
    Marios (VNS Publisher, amongst other things :-)

    Regarding AP news, I know there are (at least of as a month or so
    ago) certain groups within Digital who have AP news available to
    them.  They don't advertise it or flaunt it, simply because the
    agreement reached with the AP news people is that only 'x' number
    of subscribers could use the service.  I heard that the AP news
    people were fully aware of the 'long reach' of Digital's computer
    network, and coupled with the vast number of 'potential subscribers',
    AP was out to make a financial killing for providing this service.
    
    Disclaimer: this is only the way I heard it second/third hand, so
    take it with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary, etc...
    
    Jon

    re:.106
    
    If that's true,then there should be a legitimate business reason why
    certain employees get to use AP news.If there is no business reason,it
    is unfair to other employees.This is probably just a rumor,right?

The supplier of the information gets to say how we can use it.  For the price
DEC is willing to pay, we are not allowed to distribute it widely.  It is only
for very limited purposes.

AP would give us permission to distribute it everywhere within DEC, but at a
price that DEC does not want to pay.  (Or no single organization in DEC is
willing to pay.)

    re: .107 and .108...
    
    So... which groups get to use it ?  How do you get to be "in the
    group ?"  Is its use for a business reason ?
                        
    Todd

       
       
       
       	It's probably for demo purposes..
       
       						mike