Conference 7.286::digital

    Re: .1
    
    I am sorry you had so much problems with BEKINS, however, I HAD
    ORMES do my actually packing, & crating, and was so very extremely
    please.
    
    They made special care to pack everything, my good china was packed
    double, the men who did the packing took a lot of care to make sure
    it was packed the way "I" wanted it packed.  Since you relocated
    here, you gripe should be with the people who packed and crated you
    at the origin, not the destination.  I was also lucky enough to
    have ORMES do my actual delivery, and I did not have a new scratch
    or dent on ANYTHING.  They delivered right on time, and were extremely
    pleasant to be around and to work with.
    
    Since I was in the military, I have moved around _A LOT_ (6 times
    in 7 years), and I have always requested BEKINS because they have
    one of the BEST reputations in the military for gentleness with
    your household goods.
    
    Again, no help for your immed. problem, but I also wanted to give
    another point of view with ORMES.
    
    	- Gale

    re: Your comment about UNIRISC paying only for visible damage.
    
    The spirit of this particular regulation is reasonable. But with so
    much other stuff damaged in your move, I would think that a reasonable
    claims adjuster would waive "the letter of the law" in your case. 
    
    My advice would be to push back on UNIRISC, in writing.  In parallel,
    push back on the relocation department in a memo, pointing out the
    great amount of damage that occurred to your other goods.  If this
    doesn't work, then start using the open-door policy.  If your manager
    is very supportive, maybe he/she can help too.
    
    The nature and extent of the other damage is proof that you aren't
    trying to take advantage of the movers.  By their actions, they have
    shifted the burden of proof to their own shoulders. 

    Jon,
    
    You might also pop the top of your disk and amp and see if there
    is visible damage inside.  For example, if they dropped it, there
    might be a circuit board broken.
    
    BTW, I also had reasonably good luck with Ormes, although I did
    not have them do any storage.
    
    Burns

    
    I had extreme problems with this same moving company.  I filed a
    very
    strong complaint with Digital about them.  The adjustment costs
    were high.  The damages extreme!  I would be very happy to forward
    a copy of my memo to .0 so you can attach it if you  want.
    Unfortunately Digital insures with a separate company with complicates
    things enormously. I've moved several times in the past for DEC,
    but this move was no comparison.
    BTW, I am still out a portable color TV, no physical damage, it
    just went after the move.
    
    ed
    

   I just moved with Ormes/bekins last march. They were very accomodating
    in that they DIDN'T put my household goods in storage, even though
    our closing{was late and the drivers had to get on to the next load
    (5 day delay). One etched glass mirror was broken, and they almost
    wrecked one of my cars by not unloading it properly from the truck
    (almost wrecked one movers' wife too!)..
    
    I found them to be in a bit of a hurry.  One other thing..Ormes
    is just the booking agent locally. If you don't have anything go
    into storage, then ormes never sees your household goods. The movers
    that drive the stuff across the country are the ones handling it.
    Unless it goes into storage of course... then you are subject to
    whatever treatment ormes gives it. I knew something would probably
    get broken if it went into storage (unloading and then re-loading)..
    so I avoided it like the plague....sorry you couldn't..
    
    Gil
    

    Just a couple of notes on your misfortune:
    
    .  I've moved with DEC several times, and usually had pretty good
       luck.  Unfortunately, luck has more to do with it that one would
       like.
    
    .  Usually the moving business is extremely fragmented.  Bekins
       franchises local offices around the country, who then subcontract
       with independent truckers, and the lines of responsibility can get
       pretty fuzzy.  It makes culpability difficult in damage claims
    
    .  UNIRISC has usually been pretty cooperative.  I'd encourage you
       to continue to try to work with them.
    
    .  When it's all over, you'll get a survey to fill out on your opinion
       of the movers and (in your case) shakers.  I'd suggest a red magic
       marker would have the most impact on that.  Household Goods (in
       Northboro?) are interested in weeding out the bad movers.

    Hope this helps.
    
    tim
        

I guess I don't really understand the relationship between Bekins and
Ormes.  The moving company that packed up my stuff was Bekins; I never
heard of Ormes until I got out here.

I've got to believe the problem area is within the facilities that
Ormes has, or *should have*, for storage.  The movers that packed me
up, as well as the movers that unpacked me here appeared to be very
careful & conscientious.  As far as the pack or unpack, I've only got
one real problem, which was resolved: they had my car in storage, but
they didn't deliver it.  Reason: they had driven my car onto their van
when they packed up, but they had all my stuff in crates on a flat-bed
truck when they dropped it off.  They said they obviously could not drive
the car onto a flat-bed truck.  After various telephone calls stating
that flat-bed trucks were not *my* problem, they did bring the car over
about a week later -- around 10:30pm at night...

As far as the car, I've got a few problems there also besides the obvious
problem of the missing trim rings, so .5 was interesting.  The car's
transmission never slipped before, but now the linkage is slipping badly.
Also, the car was obviously kept outside during the months of storage, and
there are now holes in the muffler.  Whereas the car used to be able to
pass state car inspection, between the transmission and the exhaust system
it no longer does.  Again, the problem is *proof*; how could I ever prove
that a car with 97K miles on it didn't have transmission slippage or
exhaust problems prior to the move?  On the other hand, had I not moved,
the car would've been kept in a garage nights as opposed to being kept
outside, but then again, last winter wasn't all that severe up here...

Re .3, yes I popped the top off the amp and the disk drive, but for as
much as I know about circuitry, I'll have to take the standard software
statement: it's obviously a hardware problem.  No *visible* damage, but
the fact remains that there is indeed a problem there.

Re .4, yes I would definitely like a copy of your memo, since based on
the statements made to me by the insurance adjuster, I figure I'll be
needing all the firepower I can get.  As .2 suggests, I think a letter
to UNIRISC would indeed be in order.

Thanks,
Jon

I hope you'll forgive me for saying this, but in regards to 
the diskette drive and the amp:

  If you took the cover off, and there's no:

    - Physical damage (smashed circuit boards, mashed 
      cables, unplugged connectors, etc.),

    - Excessive dirt build-up inside or outside,

    - Evidence of corrosion, indicative of storage in a 
      lousy atmosphere (excess moisture, acidic vapors.  
      Look for funny colors on plated metal parts,
      "whiskers" on component leads, obvious rust
      or tarnish.),

  Then I really think you can't pin that one on the movers.
  Plastic-packaged semiconductor devices fail randomly, with
  or without power applied due to things like moisture causing
  salt ions to migrate inwards towards the silicon chips.  It
  could be fairly argued that both devices would have failed
  as surely while in your possesion as in the mover's
  possession. 

  As a last ditch effort, get both items repaired.  See what 
  the diagnosis turns out to be, then take your decision as to 
  who's at fault.  But be prepared to face the possibility that 
  nobody is particularly at fault in this instance.

  As for everything else, nail those suckers :-) !

                                   Atlant

    Yes, I took the covers off but what was I looking for?  Maybe a
    chip in the bottom of the casing that had fallen out?  Since I've
    never taken the covers off before, there's nothing I could see that
    might have been "different" from before.  From my perspective, it's
    very vanilla: the stuff worked when they picked it up, and it doesn't
    work now.  It *might* have failed if it had still been in my
    possession, but it might not have too, right?
    
    I might be able to accept the explanation that "it was due to fail
    anyway" if not for the fact that I've already submitted several
    thousand dollars worth of claims and I'm not done yet, and the majority
    of the claims to date indicate pure negligence on the part of the
    "storers".  (I don't have a particular bone to pick with the actual
    movers, I believe the problem was inadequate storage facilities.)
    
    The letter to UNIRISC went out today, we'll see what happens.
    Jon

    Like you I have problems with relocation, Bekins and UNIRISC.
    
    I moved in February and due to the fact that the driver had to unload
    by himself there was some damage.  I filed the proper claim forms
    and heard nothing until I complained to DEC.  Even then the situation
    was not resolved until May.  And even then it was not to my
    satisfaction.
    
    I have moved quite a lot and if I have to move again it will not
    be with Bekins.

    re .6, Tim, I very much doubt that household relocation is interested
    in weeding out people like ORMES.  After all, Jon did move after
    me.
    Moving companies have you over the barrel.  You set a date, hold
    closings on your house and *have* to get out of the old house.
    During the emplying of my house, I was tempted to tell the movers
    where to go.  Things were getting damaged in front of my eyes.
    Part of the neighborhood came over to watch the monkeys.  They even
    bounced a brand new wash machine down my cement stairs.  I was lucky
    I didn't have to pay for the damage to the house I moved out of.
    I INVITED RELOCATION TO INTERVIEW MY NEIGHBORS if they thought my
    statments were doubtful.  One mover was told to pak up and leave
    by the foreman (fired?).  moral was high.
    ORMES basic problem with my move is that they forgot about it!
    It was scheduled 3 months in advance.  After many calls to the office,
    a truck comes at 3 PM to move me out. then another, then another.
    I must have had 4 tractor trailers, 4 large other type trucks in
    front of the house.  Ther were over 12 movers.  Think about that
    for a minute.  they were running into eachother.  There were 4 men
    listing the condition of the furnature. I could not follow each
    one to debate condition of each piece, and how it was described.
    I put all the things in one room that IO needed for final cleaning
    of the house, and that we needed to live with (move date was friday,
    delivery date monday).  We had to keep intercepting the stuff as
    it was being carried out the door.
    The expert packer that packed the day before, didn't have time to
    pack everything.  He said that the moving crew would finish the
    rest. HA!  many,many things that one would expect to be packed,
    we
    hand carried onto the truck later to be broken in transit.
    They didn't bring tools with them.  The adjuster that came out to
    estimate the move said that they could handle taking the bunk beds
    apart, could take apart the water bed and put it back together,...
    On move date, the foreman refused to do it.  I had to put in a call
    to ormes to get it done (I had suggest to the estimater that the
    water bed be subcontracted to professionals).
    So heere we sit (in the dark) at 7pm, all loaded up, now discussing
    the conditions of the furniture loaded  "Hey Frank, do you remember
    loading that chair, where was the nick?"
    It seemed to take forever to get things settled after the move.
     Some things were more critical, like the wash machine, remember
    the one that bounced down the stairs.  Hey lady where do you want
    us to put this?  picture a machine in pieces.  Had my wife not been
    
    there, I'd have told him where to put it!
    What stuff the packer did pack, we stayed with him and told him
    what room to put on the box so it could be deliverd to that room
    in the new house.  Do you really think that that happen?
    Thats a quick summary of my move in '84.
ed
    

    
    
    	RE: .11
    
    	Ed, was your move with Bekins also? Does household relocation
    	give you a choice of movers, or just assign you with Bekins?
    	I mean uprooting yourself can be a real hassle in itself without
    	the additional hassles of the "Keystone Movers".
    
    	Cary...

    Re choice of movers.  I seem to recall that they requested 2 (3?)
    estimates from moving companies when getting the move started. 
    I don't know how they selected Bekins, since according to the estimates
    received, Bekins was *not* the cheapest.  I accepted their decision
    of Bekins, since I'd never had any experience with Bekins in the
    past, figured they were as good as any.  I would suppose that for
    somebody who knew better, you could probably specify "any moving
    company EXCEPT xxx and xxx"....
    
    Jon

    re 12: I was given a choice of movers.  Having never had a problem,
    I told relocation that it didn't matter (It will matter in the future).
    And yes, it was ORMES BEKINs.
    
    UNIRES's meathod of help was to come to the house.  It the furnature
    got gouged, they took their crayon and colored it. or glued it.
    on the larger things like the refrigerator or freezer, where it
    was scrapped and dented, they allowed us $50 rather then fix it.
    big deal!  I still have a turntable (unpacked) with a broken arm
    that isn't fixed as it was up to me to find someone to fix it.
    
    ed
    

    Much of the furniture that was scratched/dinged (we're talking MAJOR
    scratches/dings here) is going to be difficult for them.  In fact,
    much of it (including the kitchen chairs where the finish on the
    seat was ruined due to water or something apparently dripping on
    it over an extended period of time) was something that my wife &
    I had "given each other" for Christmas.  (The movers picked up the
    stuff on Jan 11th).  
    
    My opinion is that I don't care how they do it, but it damn well
    better be invisible and also damn well better match the rest of
    the finish.
    
    Will post the results of my uncomplimentary letter to UNIRISC when
    I get it.
    
    Jon

    Re .?
    I saw the trucks on the highway the other night, ORMES transportation
    holds a BEKINS franchise.
    
    My only experience with DEC relocation, was in 1971 when I was going
    to Galway. I was not moving my entire household and was only having
    it stored for the approx. 6 months I was to be gone. Relocation
    wanted me to use ALMAC North American. Their warehouse is in 
    Shrewsbury and I was living in Leominster. Since I intended to
    return to the same area, I couldn't see having my stuff stored so
    far away. I asked to have a more local company do it and I was told
    that ALMAC was their choice and I would have to make any other
    arrangements myself. I checked around the area and found Peter &
    Sons (BEKINS) to have a nice new warehouse with a sprinkler system.
    Relocation informed me that they had bad reports on Peter & Sons,
    so they wouldn't bless my actions.
    
    I had Peter & Sons do the job anyway, they came and packed the stuff
    without any hassles. Stored it for eight months and delivered it
    to the house with only one piece damaged. That was a metal wardrobe
    and had broken spot welds which they refused to cover (it was still
    usable). I made all the arrangements and submitted an expense voucher
    to cover the cost. All in all, I was very glad that I did the work
    and listened to local opinion of the mover, not relocation. I also
    had piece-of-mind, knowing that my stuff was stored in an adequate
    warehouse.
    
    Bob Mc
    

i've had good moves and bad moves.
the single factor that will improve your odds of a good move is to
not move during the summer.  during the summer all the second rate
or worse people are involved to handle the load.

the dec relocation people were very helpful.
i told them the name of the company that had given me a good move
and the date of it.  i told them i wanted the same crew.
they did it and i had a smooth move.

this was long ago, january 78.

The story continues.  In response to the claim I recently submitted where
an entire box of clothing was packed *under* the lawnmower, and the lawnmower
leaked gasoline all over them, the UNIRISC suggestion was to simply wash
the clothes.  Question: if gasoline is leaked on a box of clothing, then
that box of clothing is put into storage for a period of 8 months, how
many washings will it take to remove the gasoline odor??

Re the electronic equipment (disk drive, printer, stereo): the UNIRISC
suggestion is that I have the equipment inspected by a technician, who
I should ask to write up a statement outlining the "probable cause" of
the malfunction.  UNIRISC will then cover the damages *only if*, after
speaking to the technician and reading his report, it is indicated that
the damage was incurred as a result of moving or negligence.  Apparently,
the volume and nature of the other claims has no bearing on this.

UNRISC also refuses to process any additional claims until I submit a
form that states this constitutes my entire claim.

Moral of the story so far: I for one will never move again, for Digital
or anybody else, without a "moving agreement" signed PRIOR to the move.

Jon

    Ormes Bekin packed our stuff in Mass, trucked it to NH, and unloaded
    it the next day.  We had no problems whatsoever.  This was four
    years ago and no storage was involved.
    
    			Barbara b.

    I didn't have problems with my short move either.
    
    Have you talked to Digital relocation?  They may be able to cut
    through some of this paperwork for you.  Just because a company
    tells you something doesn't mean that DEC isn't paying for better
    service than what you're getting.  As a trivial example I was warned
    that I'd probably have problems getting the movers to unpack.  If
    I did, they were getting paid to do it no what they said, and should
    be pointed to either their company or to Digital relocation.
    
    I'd do this, if for no other reason, to tell Digital how unsatisfied
    you are with this handling of your things.

I guess we got lucky.

I just recently relocated from Maryland to New Hampshire, courtesy
of DEC.  We relocated on short notice (6 weeks from offer to start)
and in the middle of the summer, to boot.  We also had Ormes Bekins
and *THEY WERE GREAT*.  They came on time, packed efficiently (OK,
two small cheap things broke), unloaded quickly, (in fact they
wanted to unload 2 days earlier than we wanted to).
Are we talking about the same Ormes-Bekins of Woburn, MA ??

All in all our relocation was very painless -- if I could only get
the state of NH to give me a driver licence, but *that's* another 
story.

I won't tell Corporate relocation -- maybe that will make your
arguments stand up better :-)

I was surprised to find this in the Personnel Policies and Procedures
Manual (5.05 Relocation of Current Employees, Moving Expenses)

"
                               INTERNAL USE ONLY
                                Insurance/Claims

Insurance/Claims:
. . .
3.  Coverage - 
. . .
    There is no coverage for money, coins, jewelry, watches, 
    precious stones, personal papers, animals, or any electrical or 
    mechanical defects appearing in sensitive appliances, musical 
    instruments or electronic items when no exterior damage is 
    visible.  This coverage applies only for relocating domestic 
    household goods.
"

On the other hand, since it is Digital policy (as well as a term of the
insurance contract we have with UNIRISC, I bet), you may be able to get
reimbursed by obtaining a (sound of trumpets . . .)

				EXCEPTION!

to the policy.  Look under 5.05, Relocation of Current Employees,
Exceptions.  If the reimbursement is cheap enough, it appears to be
a matter of convincing your new CC manager and Personnel Rep.
				/AHM

I have never be relocated by DEC, so I don't know if agreements you sign with
DEC or UNIRISC (which I assume is an insurance carrier) over ride them,  but all
interstate movers are governed by the regulations of the ICC (Interstate
Commerce Commission).  Some of those regulations establish the mover's
minimal liability.  Most states have an agency (in Mass. its the PUC) that
regulates moves within that state. 

Steve

    Six years ago, DEC relocated me.  I too had a bad experience; about
    $2500 total damage.  The movers; Ormes/Mayflower.  About 6 months
    after my move, Mayflower terminated their franchise with Ormes.
     Several months later, Ormes picked up Bekins and has been with
    them since.  I had so many problems, Ormes backed out and I dealt
    with Mayflower directly.  Mayflower treated me fairly but by then
    the damage was done.
    
    I would recommend that people avoid Ormes anything...
    
    Dick
    

Have finally submitted the last of the claim forms to UNIRISC, total of
all claims is $4456.  To date I've received a check for $800.  To cover
the trim rings which were stolen from my car while it was in storage
with Ormes, UNIRISC was waiting for some "official" paperwork from Ormes
before they could cover it.  Talked to UNIRISC last Friday because it
has been over two months on that particular claim; they're just going
to pay for the trim rings because Ormes never responded to UNIRISC.

There was a meeting a couple weeks ago with the Digital relocation folks
and the Ormes folks to "discuss" a couple of items, some of them related
to my case.  Talking about the car's stolen trim rings in particular,
Ormes swore up & down that the car was kept inside their warehouse for
the entire duration.  Interesting, because when I was talking to Ormes
back in August to let them know that they would indeed drop the car
off because I had *no* intention of going down to Wilmington to pick
it up as they had suggested, I talked to one of the secretaries at
Ormes.  She asked what kind of car it was.  I told her that it was a
green Pontiac with Michigan plates.  Her comment: "Oh yes, I've seen
that car in our parking lot all winter".

The adjusters are coming this week to check out the remaining items on
the claim.  The status of the stereo receiver, the computer printer, and
the computer disk drive: denied.  "Inherent vice" or some such nonsense,
which allegedly applies to all electronic equipment.  They are not
covered because there is no externally visible damage.  If you took a
disk drive, held it over your head & dropped it to the floor, chances
are that there would be no visible exterior damage, but I could almost
guarantee that it wouldn't work anymore.  Not the same thing, they say.
If, for example, a chip was found to be bad, who's to say that the chip
wouldn't have gone bad even if the equipment hadn't been moved?  So OK,
if you loan your car to a friend & he leaves it parked outside on a freezing
cold winter night & the battery runs down, is it your fault because it's 
your car (and the battery might have gone dead anyway) or is it his fault 
because he had possession (and therefore responsibility) of the car at 
that time?  When you relinquished possession it was working, but when
you regained possession it was not working.  So whose fault is it?  Again,
not the same scenario, they claim.

The only way to get those covered is to get them inspected (at my own
expense) and have the service technician state in writing that the damages
were "obviously caused by the moving or improper storage of the equipment",
and then they will be happy to reimburse me.  I'm not real hardware-
oriented, but isn't that asking the impossible of the service technician?
(Or is that the intent of this rule; ie, impossible judgement?)

And despite the nature of the other claims (which from my point of view
indicate obvious neglect on Ormes part), this apparently "does not play a
factor in determining fault for other items, as each item is considered
individually".  Nor does it matter that (allegedly) Mayflower dropped
Ormes because of problems like this before Bekins picked them up.

Question: is there an appeal process, and if so, does anybody have any
experience with the chances of success there?  Ed, you had mentioned that
you were out of a TV after your move -- what route (if any) did you follow
to attempt to resolve that?

Jon

    Jon, I'm usually not a quitter , but I realized that its was useless
    to persue the issue.   TV written off as total loss. other damage
    written off.
    I would be happy to appear in personel's office with you to reaffirm
    my story. at the time, 1984, TWK personel handled me.
    ed
    

        Re:< Note 189.25 by TIGEMS::ARNOLD "Are we having fun yet?" >

                I have a really apalling story about UNIRISC.
        
                Just over  a  year  ago  I  returned  from  relocation in
        Australia and had  my stuff returned from storage.  It turned out
        that the packing lists  were  a  mess  and  there  had  been some
        deliberate theft by the movers  (who  have gone out of business).
        
                The first item we discovered were missing was our TV!  If
        you ahev tried to live in a  house  without  TV and two teenagers
        you know the trouble I was in, so  I called Household Goods right
        away and told them the problem.  They told  me  to submit a claim
        to UNIRISC and NOT to buy a new TV until  they  had processed it.
        This I did and UNIRISC took a month to process it!
        
                Within  a  couple  of days I couldn't stand it any longer
        and went out and bought a comparable TV and after a long time the
        check arrived and the TV issue was settled.
        
                The  problem  I  ran  into  was  that  further  into  the
        unpacking we realized that  other  items  had been stolen (by not
        packing them into the boxes, not putting them on the packing list
        and just loading them into the truck), so off went another claim.
        Well guess what!  A letter arrived  that said that I only had the
        right to submit ONE claim, and since I had done that they refused
        to honor the second.
        
                So  I  called  up household goods and told them  the  sad
        story.    They promised to do something about it.   Now,  a  year
        later, I still haven't heard from them and don't expect ever to.
        
                How on earth we can do business with such a rotten outfit
        is beyond me.
        
        Anker

    Almost to the end of the story.  I got another reimbursement check
    last week from UNIRISC.  I had called them to inquire about when
    it was coming, since it had been over a month since the adjuster
    made his second appearance at our house, & I hadn't heard a word.
    They couldn't find my file & nobody at UNIRISC seemed to know what
    the status was.  Fortunately, the check showed up in my mailbox
    the next day.
    
    The only remaining items are the electronic ones.  I had a friend
    come over to take a look.  Stereo problem: he had no idea.  Printer
    problem: he cleaned the print head, replaced a chip (for the price
    of a Miller Light) and it's fine & dandy again.  Disk drive: major
    problems.
    
    Took the disk drive to Computerland, downtown Nashua.  The technician
    there said the analog board was broken in half.  Could this have
    been caused by "normal usage" or "expected jarring during transit"?
    His reply was an emphatic NFW.  But the fact remains that *there
    is no physical exterior damage".  That truck had to land into a
    good sized pothole to break the analog board in half, I would think,
    or it would have had to have been dropped at some point.
    
    The service technician is going to put his "official diagnosis"
    into writing for UNIRISC.  According to the relo folks within Digital
    (Joan LaBelle has been extremely helpful during this thing), that
    letter should settle the issue, even though UNIRISC claims that
    for electronic equipment, there is a "waiver" in the insurance policy
    whereby (in effect) you can *expect* a certain amount of damage
    for electronic equipment.
    
    Jon

    I got a letter in the mail from UNIRISC today, just in time for
    some holiday humor:
    
    "Bekins Van Lines has advised us that they are having difficulty
    in locating records of your move.  They have requested that we provide
    them with their Bill of Lading number which, of course, would be
    on a copy of their Bill of Lading.  We would appreciate you forwarding
    photo-copies of all Bekins paperwork to my attention as soon as
    possible."
    
    This tells me that Bekins can't find the paperwork, and that UNRISC
    doesn't have a copy of it either.  I do not intend to send them
    copies, and am still formulating my response, maybe something like:
    
    "I will send you photo-copies as soon as you have processed my claims
    for the electronic equipment which was damaged in the move.  By
    the way, I never received the 1986 Mercedes 450SL which was included
    with my goods...."
    
    Happy Holidays!
    Jon

    Jon, don't forget that my 380SEL was on that load as well.
    
    Keep smiling and all like that,
    
    Don

    This is an old note, but I just can't resist throwing in my two
    cents' worth.  I've relocated twice with Digital, the first time
    with United and the second time with Bekins.  After the first
    experience, I swore I'd never do business with United again.  Now
    that I've gone through the second one, I've about decided one isn't
    any worse than another.
    
    You-name-it-they-did-it.  Sent 5 packers for an entire day and failed
    to complete the packing in 10 hours.  BTW, the load was 12,000 pounds
    -- not an unusually large load at all.  The stuff that didn't get
    packed was mostly in the basement, and was shipped in the boxes
    it was already in, marked "Packed by Owner."  I did not agree to
    take responsibility for those items, and fully expected Bekins to
    re-pack them.  Much of that stuff got broken or damaged.  Due to
    the "packed by owner" marking, I don't know what UNIRISC will have
    to say about it.
    
    The list of stuff they WOULDN'T take was almost longer then what they
    WOULD take.  No light bulbs.  No cleaning products or aerosol cans of
    any kind. (I packed that stuff up after they left in a box, labeled it
    "PBO" and they un-knowingly shipped it anyway).  No plants. No gasoline
    (understandable), lamp oil, matches, or anything even remotely
    flammable.   No guns (unloaded of course).  No ammunition.  They wanted
    me to throw away all my candles but I insisted they ship them at
    my risk.  Luckily I was moving about 750 miles so I could drive
    much of that stuff in the car with me.  What do you do if you're
    moving thousands of miles and shipping your car?  How are you expected
    to get that stuff to its destination?  Aren't these people in the
    business of moving households?  Then why won't they do just that?
    
    Loader showed up the next day.  Loaded the truck.  Informed me he
    was taking it to Atlanta (300 round trip miles in the WRONG DIRECTION),
    not to pick up another load (which would have been understandable)
    but to deliver it to someone else who would drive it to Texas. 
    Then a THIRD group would show up in Texas to unload.  Hence, no
    one is responsible since fingers can point in all directions.
    
    Got to Texas.  Driver calls & says stuff is being delivered the
    next day at noon.  Take off work.  Go to the house and sit till
    7:00 P.M.  No driver.  No phone call.  No message left at the office.
    Bekins says driver has not called in for two days and they have
    no earthly idea where in the U.S. he is.
    
    Next day he calls.  Some un-intelligible explanation of why he didn't
    show up.
    
    Damage:
    
    1-inch-thick solid oak wood top BROKEN in my antique dining room
    table (circa 1805).
    
    China cabinet glass broken, all joints so loose it sways if you
    blow on it.  Will have to be totally taken apart and rebuilt.
    
    Grandfather clock door broken.  Cabinet has been jammed so hard
    that clock is now 20 degrees out of plumb.  Clock itself does not
    run.
    
    Antique desk -- wood is broken.
    
    TV tuner no longer works.  25-inch Sony TV is two years old and
    worked perfectly when it left.
    
    2 framed Chinese silks are missing.  Would have been packed in a
    box and therefore did not get inventoried as a separate item.  Will
    we be able to claim them???
    
    Brand new bedroom suite:  door on armoire no longer closes properly,
    armoire and two night stands have the finish rubbed off down to
    the bare wood on the edges.
    
    Crystal stemware broken (shattered actually).
    
    Thhat's the major stuff.  The list goes on and on.
    
    I guess my question is this:  Are ALL transfer companies like that?
    My experience with United was terrible, and now Bekins was no better,
    perhaps worse.  Do I have to look forward to this each and every
    time I move, with no hope of avoiding such antics?  Perhaps some
    of you who have moved many times can answer me.
    
    							Pat
    
    P.S.  This is the NICE part of the story.  See the home purchase
    note for the REAL nightmare!

	One thing to do is contact the Interstate Commerce Commission office 
in Dallas and find out who to write a complaint to.  Even if they "fix" 
everything, the incompetence of the whole operation deserves a report to the 
Feds.  You have an good way with words, Pat, especially when you are mad, so 
try it! 

	I got similar treatment by North American moving from Knoxville to 
Atlanta in '77, at least on the "delay" side.  They were a week late 
picking up in Tennesee, said it would be a week before it would get to 
Atlanta, and it was THREE weeks later before I even heard "boo" from the 
delivering driver.

Well....  Mayflower worked for us.  But I don't think DEC deals with them.

    Mayflower DIDN'T work for me.  I'm in the process of dealing with
    UNIRISC on the damage.  So far, they have been quite good.  They've
    sent out a guy that has done a good job of repairing the scratchs
    and gouges.  They will be paying replacement cost on those items
    that are beyond repair (about $1000 worth so far).  Mayflower managed
    to damage all of the expensive stuff (their attitude was, literally,
    "Hey, it still has four legs, don't it - its a chair!"  This about
    an $800 upholsted chair.  Mayflower also damaged both cars that
    they carried.  
    
    I think that the quality of the move is totally depentent on the driver
    that you get to load and unload your furniture, and not the company
    that he works for.
    
    Steve
         

    I don't want to be the one who is standing in a field alone, defending
    the moving companies...I guess we were lucky.  Bekins moved 18,000
    pounds of stuff for us from Albuquerque to New Hampshire, and broke
    one piece of glass (an etched picture, which we found a month
    later.. we had told them to leave it packed..)  
    Ours was a husband and wife team, driving their truck and pulling
    the BEKINS trailer. They were very courteous, concerned for our
    belongings, and even waited an extra three days bayond the day we
    had scheduled to unload (closed on our house late..).
    
    All things considered, and from what I've been reading, ours went
    pretty well...
    
    

When I relocated to the US from Sweden ten years ago, the movers sent
one (1) person do do all the packing (for three days).  He had an assistant
for one day to do the heavy stuff, and five people showed up to move
the boxes from my apartment into the container.

I would suppose that if you scream loud enough, they'll do this for
you, rather than send out an army.

There was very little damage (things were packed very well).  I don't
have a good opinion of the local people, however.  I ended up having
them stack the boxes in the apartment so my wife and I could unpack
at leisure.  I guess that if I moved again, I'd have only one person
responsible for unpacking, too.

Martin.

    Allied Van Lines moved me recently from NH to MA and did a superb
    job...
    
    Of all my dealings with banks and brokers and insurance agents and
    Personnel and assessors and estimators and Relocation and Home Equity
    and lawyers and closers and movers, my experience with Allied was 
    the most satisfying.
    
    grins,
    Marge
    
    

    I guess you learn something everytime you move.  One of the bottom
    line items that I will be *sure* to take care of the next time I
    move (and would recommend that other potential relocatees also think
    about) is to get something IN WRITING from somebody responsible
    (don't know if it would be Digital or the moving company) stating
    that I will accept NO responsibility for items that THEY pack and
    that THEY ship, REGARDLESS of the fact that it's electronic equipment.
    Apparently there's something in most moving companies standard
    contracts that says something to the effect of "you can expect some
    damage to electronic equipment, including stereos, computers, TV's,
    etc".  If they pack it and they ship it and it's working properly
    when it leaves, then I will not move until I have a statement in
    writing that waives this "standard manure".
    
    Be forewarned.  UNIRISC is unsympathetic in this area.
    Jon

I was moved twice by Bekins. Both times they did an excellent job. But
as far as stereo equipmeny goes, I pack it and move it myself.

Jenna

    We just relocated from St.Louis to Denver... used bekins... They
    were quite good.  We have quite a few antiques, all of which came
    through without a scratch.  
    
    I think that the key is in the number of times that your stuff has
    to be handled... They loaded the truck on friday in St. Louis and
    delivered it on Monday in Denver.  The drivers told me that they
    were responsible for everything and had to pay if things were broken
    (I also threatened their lives).  It seems that the people that
    heve problems are the ones who have their stuff put into storage
    or moved from one truck to another.  
    
    I think that you could say "NO" to a driver and make the carrier
    get you someone else if you make enough noise... so that you could
    get a straight shot.  It also helps to be somewhat of a packrat
    so that you can fill a whole truck.
    
    As stated earlier... The driver makes all the difference... too
    bad you choose a company rather than a driver.
    
    Jeff

    Bekins moved us, and we were very happy about their work. They moved
    my 5 big plants after I told them that they won't be responsible
    for it.
    	D.F

re .40, you can pick the driver.

after one move that went well, i kept the name of the driver.
when DEC moved us here, i asked the relocation people to get that driver.
he worked for a company that DEC does not normally use, but the good
people in relocation used that company and that driver for the move.

you may have to wait or make an appointment far in advance, but it
can be worth the effort.

Re: .40, 42

	Sort of sounds like what our customers ask about software residents:


		"Do I get to pick the person?"

Also can end up with the same type of results - patchy!

    
    My parents used Bekins when they moved from Buffalo to Worcester
    in 1975.
    
    I myself relocated from Worcester to Chicago about 6 months ago.
    Household Goods took care of the movers, etc. It was Allied and
    they were pretty good. The only problem I had was that when they
    delivered my car, it took two days to schedule a place for them
    to unload the car, so that I could pick it up. They finally suggested
    a place, almost in Indiana (about 40 miles from where I was). Since
    I didn't know the area and assumed that they did (they said it was
    about 15 minutes from my address), I agreed to this place.
    
    I want to thank the person (people) for sharing their stories of
    Homeequity for when I need to relocate again.
    
    

    I've never used any of the moving companies, but isn't it true that
    each local "representative" is actually an independent operator,
    rather than a company-owned unit?  It seems to me that you'd have
    a hard time trying to establish any sort of consistent ratings
    for moving companies because of this.
    
    					Steve

    Steve, you've hit the nail on the head regarding a lot of the problems.
    Bottom line is, they really don't care.
    
    I moved 750 miles away.  That local moving company was probably
    never going to get any more business from me anyway, and they knew
    it.  They could have cared less.
    
    Not only are the local companies franchised, the drivers are
    independent contractors hired by the local companies.  So what we
    have here is a situation of little or no accountability, TWICE.
    
    You can't win.
    
    				Pat_who's_filing_with_UNIRISC_today
    

    I tried the route of complaining to Bekins, as well as the Ohio
    Attorney General's office, the New Hampshire Attorney General's
    office, the Illinios Attorney General's office (Bekins is headquartered
    in Chicago),and the Interstate Commerce Commission.  All this after
    a move by Bekins was sorely botched.  I will not include the letter
    I sent to them (quite lenghtly and containing everything from my
    account of the matter to receipts) but I thougt I would type in
    the letter I received from Bekins' claim office.
    
    
    Dear Mr. Dawson  
     
    Thank you for your letter dated March 10, 1987.
                                     
    I reviewing yuor file, we find we can not comply with your
    request to be reimbursed for over charge onwaitting time and
    Guaranteed Price.                              
    
    Regarding to the waitting time, according to the information i
    received.  On 02/23/87 our driver was there but, you did not have
    the proper funds. On 02/24/87 you contact customer service to let
    them know that you were going out of town.
    It is the shipper's responsibility to be available at all times
    for delivery.  Since your wife was not there when our driver
    arrived,  you were charge for waitting time. Per out Tariff our
    driver can charge you for waitting time which was for four hours
    at $44.95 per hour.
    
    Regards to the overcharge on your Guaranteed Price, since your
    father inlaw sign a new Amended Service request to change the firm
    price.  It becomes a new contract and the original one will no
    longner applied.
    
    I trust this has clarified out " Guaranteed Service" policy and
    we
    apoligize for any misunderstanding that might have occurred.
    
    Again, we do thank you fro moving with Bekins Van Lines.
    
    Sincerely
    
    signed by the buffoon who sent the letter.
    
    Sign me Never moving with Bekins again, not even if it's for free.
     
    This move was on my own, mainly to move my new wife's few belongings
    up here.
    
    Mike

    Good grief!  Are the typos yours or did the letter come that way?
    
    On the other hand, except for the poor grammar/spelling, this letter
    does not make Bekins seem all that bad without hearing your side
    of the story.  (I.e. did someone really sign an ammendment to the
    contract?  Did they really have to wait 4 hours for you to show
    up on the appointed day? etc etc.
    
    Burns
    

    The typos, mispellings, and Grammer goofs are theirs!  I typed that
    letter in verbatim.  
    
    Yes, my Father-in-law did sign an adendem,after th eexplanation
    by the agent that this was "simply to certify that the load had been
    picked up".      
    
    No, the driver did not wait at my house for four hours.  According
    a friend of mine who works as a driver for Mayflower, the driver
    must be "at your house, in your driveway or on the street in front",
    and you not at home, before he can charge for waiting time.  The
    morning he finally showed, he had to call for directions.
                                                     
    I still fume about this whenever I think about it.  
    
    Mike

    Having recently survived (?) this ordeal, I can cast a strong vote
    for Allied. I guess I drew the right number out of the hat for the
    local agents on both ends of the move. Due to a paperwork snafu,
    the move was arranged quickly, but efficiently. Out of all of my
    things, they broke:
    
    a) the glass from one framed print
    b) a concrete block (good trick)
    
    The packers were amazing. I felt 95% useless during the process.
    About all I could do was offer up something to drink while they
    worked. My sympathy really went out to the guys who delivered
    the stuff here. Lugging 118 articles up to a 3rd floor walk-up
    in Phoenix in July is not my idea of a good time. (I think it
    hit 108 that day and I have a *lot* of books and manuals. I thought
    the guy who carried up the weight set was going to have a stroke). But 
    still, they did a professional job.
    
    I'd like to offer a *big* tip of the hat to Nita Giovannucci and
    the folks at Corporate Relocation. They dole out sound advice on
    dealing with the movers. (Auditing the boxes going out the door
    paid off. I caught 4 boxes going out un-numbered)
    
    I'm still arranging things and trying to find my way around town,
    but it's all here. Having to deal with a new job is tough enough.
    Removing a problem or two can make things much smoother.
    
    To anyone moving in the near future:
    
    Good Luck. I hope you make out as well as I did.
    
    Still staring at a few boxes,
    
    Jim
    

    Welcome to Phoenix Jim. It may be HOT now, but wait till the NICE
    winter weather!!
    
    							Warren
    

    	To speak to the intent of the base note, please be very careful
    before considering hiring Heffler Movers of Lowell, MA.  I recently
    moved, and was very displeased with this company.  I'd like to pass
    on the warning, but also the lessons we learned.
    
    	They are a small, local company.  They charge $50/hour,
    which was the best rate we found.  Well, we went with them, and
    got our money's worth.  First, my wife told them we had seven rooms'
    worth of furniture to move.  The dispatcher said she'd send out
    their largest truck, which could hold up to ten rooms' worth.  My
    wife failed to mention that our rooms were *furnished.*  The truck
    was one of those square jobs, not the huge 18-wheelers, and it took
    them two trips, *plus* five trips by me in a (spacious) Dodge Caravan,
    **plus** four trips in a Honda Accord, to get the job done.  
    BE SURE THE TRUCK IS BIG ENOUGH!
    
    	As soon as I saw the three movers, I was reminded of the Bob
    Newhart show's characters Larry, Darryl, and Darryl.  But those
    guys at least are cheerful.  *These* guys whined
    and complained about everything they had to move, and generally
    acted as if they were doing the work as a personal favor to us,
    a favor that we were abusing:
    
    	"Look at all these books!  We'll be here until eight o'clock 
    tonight!"  (The books were tied into bundles; I'm not a library.
    
    	"We'll never move this piano!"  (It was a small upright; did
    they think we built it in place from a kit?)
    
    	"We'll never get this refrigerator out!"  (Gee, guys, Sears
    got it *in*.)
    
    	They thoughtfully left cigarette butts all around both houses.
    I'd have preferred business cards.  DON'T LET THEM INTIMIDATE YOU!
    
    	Finally, the crew vanished on the road for over an hour.  When
    asked what happened, one said they needed gas; another said "the
    f*ing truck broke down;" then they began bickering about the excuse.
    (Come on, guys, get your story straight!  You're supposed to be
    professionals.)  Doubtless they were enjoying doughnuts and coffee 
    somewhere enroute, at our expense.  Also, they
    spent considerable time disassembling my kids' bunk beds (well,
    one of them did; the other two stood around and watched), an activity
    I found pointless.  I ended up putting the beds back together myself.
    KEEP THEM BUSY; IT'S YOUR TIME!
    
    	When they had delivered their second truckload, with another
    trip in the offing, we paid them off and sent them away in disgust.
    Now we have boxes in the dining room from floor to ceiling that
    we're distributing ourselves.  At least they did no real damage.
    
    	So, even a local move can be traumatic.  I don't like to think
    of what would have happened had we not packed ourselves.  Oh, well...
    At least the house is nice!

	This topic is suddenly very interesting for me, as I'm contemplating a
	move.

	One summer while I was in college I worked as a mover.  The company
	I worked for was a North American Van Lines agent, but did most
	of its own long distance moving.  When we moved a family, we did
	the whole thing, from packing at one end through driving through
	unpacking at the destination.  There was no opportunity to point
	the finger at anyone else.  We were good, too.  Damage was very much
	the exception - none of this "expect damage" crap.  We were real
	expensive, too (eg, we nearly always drove empty one way).

	Not having seen the policy, I wonder how much latitude Digital
	gives in choice of moving company.
	 - Could a semi-independent mover like the one I worked for be used?
	 - If yes, is there an upper limit on what Digital will pay?
	 - If yes, and my independent mover of choice costs more than the
	   limit, could I pay the difference?

	Bob

    I remember talking to the Bekins mover that hauled our
    stuff from Albuquerque to New Hampshire.  He said that Digital
    negotiated a really good discount with a few carriers. I think that
    figure was something like 40-60% off the regular price.
    
    He said it almost wasn't worthwile for them to move DEC because
    the profit margin was so low. I guess they made it up in volume.
    
    We had one piece of glass broken..not bad.
    
    

    I just moved from Connecticut to New Hampshire the mover DEC used
    was CLARK and REID out of Burlington, Mass. They are the type described
    in note -2 they do the whole job same guys pack, move, drive the
    truck and unload. We were very happy with them and had not one 
    problem. When talking with the movers they said DEC has changed
    carriers now and are no longer using discounted carriers to many
    problems with breakage and angry DEC people. All and all this move
    was one of the best yet even the wife had to admit it ( and she
    didn't want to move)
    
    Dick Tusia
    

Back in 1979 I also used Clark & Reid on a DEC move from Mass to NH.  Same
guys did the loading and unloading.  Very professional.  Nothing broken.

BTW, a different employee came the day before the move and packed all the 
boxes.  He was working on commission based on the number of boxes (or 
something like that).  He told me that he got 90% of his money when the
packing was done.  The other 10% he got 30 days after the unpacking took 
place but any claims for damage first came out of his 10% then the company's
insurance took over.  Quite an incentive to do it right.

    Another vote for Clark & Reid.  They just moved us from Merrimack to
    Colorado Springs.  Same two guys all the way, and not a bit of damage. 
    In fact, I'd have to say it was almost a pleasant experience  :-)
    
    Unfortunately, you can't always choose.  But if I had to do it again,
    I'd push as hard as I could for Clark & Reid. 
    
    -  David (who's moved before with Allied, United, North American, etc.) 

I'll add my vote of approval for C & R.  I had to move my stuff
from Ireland to Mass. about two years ago - this was in a different
life, not DEC.  The company shipping from Ireland messed up
documentation, customs clearance, etc.

I don't remember how, but we were put in touch with Clarke & Reid
who helped us get a customs clearance agent, and delivered
stuff from Boston Hahbah (make sure you pronounce it correctly)
to our house.

I'd happily do business with them again.

    Just to go along with the others -- we moved from New Hampshire
    to Mass. a couple of weeks ago with C & R.  They apparently
    underestimated the amount to be moved -- they had three people working
    until 9:30pm on loading day to finish up, but they stayed until
    everything was done.
    
    So far, the only thing we have found damaged is one lightbulb --
    the glass is intact, but the filament is loose.  Not bad, not bad
    at all!
    
    They were also reasonable on condition of furniture: some (most)
    movers mark EVERYTHING "scratched, damaged, dented, etc."  C & R
    was very straightforward about the actual condition of the furniture,
    including noting what was in perfect condition.

    
    RE: several
    
    I can also vouch for Clarke & Reid.  We have moved MANY, MANY times
    with probably just as many movers.  The BEST  moves we ever had
    were the last two when we used C&R.  Only a picture frame glass
    was broken, between both move.  At one time I noticed during the
    loading on the truck, that the two guys who were loading (same two
    who had done the packing) were picking up the boxes and RUNNING
    to the truck and RUNNING back to the house.  They packed us in one
    day, loaded us in one day and delivered in one day.
    
    When we came from Maryland to NH they even put our house plants
    on the truck, dropped them at their terminal in Burlington, ma.
     When we arrived several days later we found the plant in the warehouse
    managers office, recieving TLC as if they were his own.
    
    Great outfit, and I would recommend them to anybody.

    Of the two interstate moves I've made (1 with Burnam, 1 northAmerican),
    neither would take house plants. Was never made clear to me exactly why
    except that both drivers mumbled something about requirements or
    restrictions for them to move plants across state lines. It's encouragin'
    to hear this wasn't a problem in your case.

    
    lee

    I've moved twice with Digital.  Both times I was told the movers
    wouldn't take houseplants.  And both times, at the last minute,
    they loaded all my houseplants on the back of the truck, told me
    25 times in a row that they aren't guaranteed, and took them to
    the new location.  And both times every plant has arrived healthy!
    
    							Pat

    Re.:.61
    There is a real process for getting house plants into and out of
    quarentine. Call the Massachusetts department of agriculture. I
    helped make an offer to a california bound Decie, who was loaded
    with plants. The MA Dep of Agriculture was very helpful.
    
    Bill.

    In the interest of bringing a dead note back to life...
    
    I had an experience yesterday that really made me think about all these
    transfer companies and what they charge.  I had a need to get some
    furniture from North Carolina where my brother lives to Texas where I
    am.  Specifically, a bedroom suite, a cedar chest, a chair and a sewing
    machine in a cabinet.  I called Bekins, Allied, and those folks and got
    quotes -- not a single one was less than $1,000. 
    
    My brother then started looking on his end and found one of these
    package places.  The name of it was very original: "The Package Store",
    and they took care of the whole thing.  Total price for pickup,
    packaging, shipping, and delivery was $500.  Half what the big boys
    wanted.  Shipping was done by P.I.E. Freight, a national firm.
    
    The thing that really got me was when I started uncrating the stuff.
    They went to my brother's home and packed it there.  Every piece of
    furniture had a heavy cardboard carton built around it, so the carton
    was an exact fit.  And each piece has sheets of 1-1/2-inch thick
    styrofoam around it on all sides and bottom, cut to exactly fit the
    carton.  Pieces with legs were set on a piece of plywood so if they got
    turned right-side-up, the legs wouldn't poke through the carton.  That
    truck could have had a wreck and my furniture would have come out
    without a scratch! 
    
    And all this cost half what the movers wanted.  What does that tell
    you about the money they're making?  And an even better question
    is why doesn't Digital look into something like that for relocating
    employees' household goods?
    
    							Pat 

        I may be mistaken, but I believe that the rules around insurance
        and the like for interstate movers (Allied, Bekins, and the like)
        are different from those for freight trucking companies (such as
        the one that delivered your furniture).  These rules are not made
        by the companies, but are made by our friends, an agency of the
        federal government.  I believe that if you had suffered a loss of
        the shipment, you would find that the coverage offered to you by
        the freight forwarding approach is MUCH LESS than what you would
        get through an interstate moving company. 
        
        Tom

RE: .-1
    
    But in the case of company relocation, Digital elects not to file a
    claim with the carrier and provides their own insurance anyway through
    whatever-the-name-of-that-outfit-is.  So carrier-provided insurance
    coverage shouldn't affect a Digital move one way or the other if
    I understand correctly.
    
    							Pat

    Before a commercial mover removes your stuff he gets you to sign
    an inventory which, in 99-44/100% of the cases, lists all items
    as one or more of the following:
    
    soiled
    scratched
    marred
    gouged
    torn
    
    or otherwise damaged.
    
    Just *try* getting replacement value.
    
    /Ed

    Isn't that the truth.  Should have seen them yell when I found
    damage on my brand new prelude SI!  (which I can't afford anymore...)

    As most of you probably know, relocation benefits are considered
    taxable income.  However, DEC help you pay the tax liability by
    giving you a "tax adder".  They calculate the approximate taxes
    you will owe on the relocation benefits and add that amount diretly
    into your Federal withholding column.  I just received the statement
    that lists all the relocation benefits paid in 1988, including the
    tax adder.
    
    Problem:  Sometimes relocation benefits (i.e. "employee moving
    expenses") are deductible by filing form 3903, so when DEC figures
    out your tax adder, they subtract the portion they "know" is
    deductible.  Only problem is, if your new job is less than 35 miles
    further away than your old job, you don't qualify to deduct anything.
    The tax adder calculation system didn't notice that.
    
    Bottom line is DEC owes me additional tax adder.  I'm not sure how
    they're going to handle this since 1988 W2's are already done.
    

    Last, the Corporate Relocation people sent out a form that your could
    fill out to "request" additional tax adder.  You had to show your total
    relocation expenses, total income, what your tax liability would have
    been if you hadn't moved, plus a few other things.  If they didn't send
    it to you, you mught want to give them a call.
    
    Steve
    

        And, even though Digital has sent a W-2 (both to you and Uncle),
        they can submit a revised one.  So it can be resolved.
        
        Tom

    Ah yes, have gone through all this once and will be going 
    through thia again.  I had the blues, yesterday I got the
    purples!
                                 
    Well as mentioned again not only can they revise your forms
    but you can also claim an additional tax adder later on.
    This can accounted for in your next years W4(?).
    
    Before we would get this form along with the Employee
    Moving Expense Information form.  I *suspect* (just
    speculation on my part I repeat) that because of the tax
    reforms causing the Additional Worksheet to give wrong
    amounts in the case discussed below they might be working
    on correcting it and then will send it out later.  You
    should call the relocation number given in the Employee
    Moving Expense Information form to clarify it further.
    
    The problem was that because of the Federal Tax law 
    changing relocation became a itemized deduction instead of
    being a pre-itemized deduction (can't remember what the
    form calls it now).  So what happens is that the Additional
    Tax Order WorkSheet gave could give wrong amount of additional
    tax depending on your situation.  The situation in which 
    the worksheet made an error was that if you would have filed 
    your taxes using standard deductions and now you have had 
    to itemize in your tax forms because of the move (this can 
    happen if your itemized deduction works out to be larger 
    than the standard deduction).  I don't think State taxes
    caused any problems.
    
    BTW also you will only get additional taxes if the additional
    amount you are to receive is larger than $150, so you should
    be careful of how you fill your tax forms too ;-)!  

    I have moved just *once* for DEC (Littleton Ma. to Sunnyvale Ca.)
    and it was awhile back but I would guess that the procedures are
    the same: Mayflower (that's who moved me) pays some driver (usually
    an independent) a flat fee to pack their trailer with your goods
    and haul it to wherever you're going.The trucker has to pay his
    helpers out of that fee therefore he usually hires the cheapest
    labor he can find.(in my case,three winos from a mission in Lowell)
    Needless to say,the goods weren't packed too well.(plenty of damage)
    When he got to Ca. it was the same story: Several local unsavory
    characters helped unload.
    How can you avoid this mess? You can pray! (or move yourself)

This is a warning to people who may be going through the relocation process.

You will not be reimbursed for Mortgage Insurance {PMI} as part of your
relocation expenses.    

Several people have been hit with this recently, myself included.  The
amount involved can range from several hundred to over a thousand dollars.

Here's the story:

As part of the Relocation Package, we were provided with a booklet detailing
the policy for reimbursing closing costs on the purchase of a home.   This
booklet is dated 1989 and was mailed to our home in March.   Under the heading,
"Purchase of a Home at the New Location" is the statement that reimbursment
will be allowed for:

	"Other one-time fees required by the lender connected with the 
	 purchase of the home"

There is also a worksheet to fill out for estimating reimbursed expenses
that includes a line "Mortgage Insurance Protection".   I used this 
worksheet to get an advance for my closing costs.

After the move, I submitted the forms to Relocation.  A couple weeks later,
I got a Federal Expressed letter stating that everything had been accepted
except for the PMI amount... (about $300).   

I called Relocation and after going thru several hoops and talking to a
number of people, got the response that "Oh, that policy was changed last
October to not include PMI."   That policy change was never relayed to
anyone and does not exist in the VTX ORANGEBOOK {at least as of June of this 
year}.   I was also told that, "Well, you got a generous miscellaneous 
expenses allowance and you can use it for the PMI". The guidebook makes no 
mention of using the allowance for that purpose, and even if it did, that 
would be a fairly large percentage.

A co-worker is in the same position but with a larger dollar amount at 
stake.  He submitted a relocation exception form signed by the proper
people, and it was denied as well!  {When is an exception not an exception?}

So, be forewarned... A policy is not a policy even if it's written on 
paper.

    PMI is not a one-time fee. You have to pay for it every year, usually
    until your equity in the property is at 20% of the total value. I don't
    know if "Mortgage Insurance Protection" is the same as PMI, but I
    believe it was denied to us as well (this was 2+ years ago).

Local management shouold be able to overriide what corporate relo says an
make an exception for you....

Jim