Conference 7.286::digital

    
    	If they're calling Field Service then doesn't that mean that
    	they already bought something from us?
    
    	If so, we already have their money, right?  So what's the
    	problem?
    

    
    
    I hate to say this but, where the *()#$ have you been?
    This has been a problem for MONTHS (years??) now...
    
    The number you listed, 1-800-354-9000, is the number for Customer
    Support, not just field service. It's the number that EVERYONE calls
    for EVERYTHING. 
    
    AND, when they finally do get thru and can log a call, it sometimes
    takes DAYS for them to get help!!
    
    Is this any way to run a customer support busines?? 
    HECK no. Have
    we complained? Can you say "blue in the face"?? Is anything being
    done about it? Geez. What would it take? Maybe.......MORE PEOPLE????
    Believe me, it's not FUN being on the other end of the phone when
    a customer does get thru after that much time, or worse, when they
    finally get to a techincal person after several DAYS.
    
    As for the guy at 1-800-354-9000 being the only one on phones at 10:30
    AM, that's a little bit hard to believe. We have response reps in
    Colorado and Atlanta all taking initial calls.  10:30 am is prime
    time so there would have been ALOT of CSSs taking calls then.
    
    The question is, do we have the staff to take the number of calls that
    come into the 800 number every day? 
    No. Simple. 
    

Look - it could be worse.  At least it's a toll-free number.  Many other
vendors would have you wait just as long, on your own nickel.

					Steve

    Yeah, I suppose.  Still it $#@%& to be treated like dirt.
    
    Sam

    
    
    ...thnk of it as a McDonalds with only one person working an 8 hour
    shift right thru lunch and dinner time. 
    
    If you were a customer, would you wait in line the amount of time it
    would take for this guy to get you your order? What if it was the only
    place in town to get a burger? 
    
    And if you were the guy behind the counter (and the grill!) how would
    YOU feel at the end of the day? How would you feel when every customer
    who stepped up to the counter reamed you for the lousy service you
    were providing ... ???? Do you think you'd be smiling and saying
    "WELCOME" to every customer by the end of the day? Would you be
    looking at every order as "an opportunity to make a customer happy??"
    
    It doesn't take rocket sciene to figure out the Human Nature at work
    here and the fact that it's not ONLY the customer who's frustrated
    by the whole thing....the situation is not a good one for anyone
    concerned. 

    And I thought that I had an attitude....
    
    Sam

        re: 4706.0

    I am certainly not one in control...don't even play that part on
    television...

    1-800-354-9000 is not Field Service, it is the main number for 
    the CSC (Customer Support Center).   It is certainly a valid
    number to call to get Field Service involved.  If you or your 
    customer is experiencing excessive "hold" times when calling the 
    CSC, you might want to contact the Call Management Group Manager:
    Steve Israel.  The CSC keeps telephone statistics (waiting times,
    hangups, number of calls waiting, etc...) and I am certain it can
    be determined if the waits were that high at that time.

    Also, if a customer is unhappy with their wait, they can ask for
    the MOD (Manager on Duty) and get a explanation of why this is
    taking place.  Have them complain right then and there, so as to
    get the answers needed at the time of anger.

    Lastly, please try to understand that the CSC is no different than
    any other group.  We experience spikes in call volume that can't be
    prepared for, and we apologize for the inconvenience.  I doubt there 
    was only 1 person answering phones...we take thousands of calls a 
    day, and do a pretty darned good job of it I might add...no flames,
    just proud!

    Michael Stafford - Colorado CSC

    	Hey, didn't you guys read the recent Q&A? We're laying off another
    7000 people, and it won't affect services. It's right there in black
    and blue...er, I mean black and white. And after we shed thousands more
    of this excess baggage, we'll be focused like laser-guided missiles on
    our customers and so damn efficient, it'll be scary. But if you think
    there really might be a small problem here, you should use the open
    door policy and escalate it up the supply chain so we can get a VP and
    task force put into place to address the possibility that our customers
    might not be as satisfied as they could be.
    	And by the way, who's the VP of paperclips these days? I need a
    signature on an exception form to get more paperclips.

    You are absolutely right...maybe I was just spoiled when I was in
    Field Service and got a response.  I just feel really bad for our
    customers and the hassles that they are forced top endure.  I am glad
    that others feel the same as I do.
    
    Sam

    It is really important to know that I AM NOT FLAMING the CSC or the
    good folks who slave over the phones...just the people who are
    attempting to destroy one of the best field service organizations in
    the world!!!!!! 

    
    
    
    calling the mod is a wonderful idea. Then they log a CRITICAL call to
    the queue and next thing you know EVERYTHING is critical. You have no
    idea how many critical "how do I configure a printer" calls we see
    everyday. And if we ask how this is critical, the customer says that
    they just didn't want to wait for a callback...
    is it their fault? no. They're using the system that we've created
    to get around our inability to do the job. 
    What ends up happening? The REAL critical calls get shoved behind the
    "crying wolf" critical calls and we have more customers with MORe
    reasons to be unhappy (systems been DOWN for hours but we're helping
    someone else walk thru a printer setup cause the MOD told us to...)
    
    I've worked in the CSC for 15 years now. I've seen it go from a top
    notch support organization that other companies only TRIED to
    emulate, to a disjointed bunch of tired worker bees all just trying to 
    give it their best shot every day without drowning....
    
    ...I need a vacation...  8-}
    

    The hard working professionals in the CSC remind me of the Fleet
    Captain of the Roman Ship who goes down into the orr galley and
    announces to the slaves:  "Slaves of the Empire, I have good news and
    bad news!"  One slave reaches over and says, "Captain, tell us the good
    news." Captain says, "The Fleet Admiral has authorized extra wine,
    cheese and bread for the evening meal!"  Big Cheer goes up.  The slave
    on the other side says, "Tell us the bad news now."  Captain:  "The
    Fleet Admiral wants to go water skiing in about 15 minutes!!!"
    
    Moral of Story:  Captain = Janet Wallace  Fleet Admiral = John Rando
    
    Mav

	I work as CRS in the Colorado CSC Call Management District
	and would like to point out that while sometimes our wait times
	may exceed 10 minutes or more (system down, call spikes, and most
	recently the multistate power outage last week), I have never seen
	a wait time that exceeded 30 minutes over the last six years I 
	have been logging customer support calls!!!  Our goal is 20 second
	or less Average Speed of Answwer (ASA).

	That said I would like to address the fact that this topic seems 	
	to be focused on my group as the only folks at the CSC that answer
	the phone at 1-800-354-9000.  When a customer (or anyone else for
	that matter) calls in they have several routing options from the
	teleprompter.  These include, but are not limited to, several 
	different Desktop routing options, remote diagnostics, etc.   The 
	wait times on these other lines can and do vary widely.

	What option did the customer in question pick???  Was this a wait 
	time for a callback on a previously logged call???  Was the wait 
	5 or 10 minutes and seemed like 30 minutes (by the way I HATE being
	on hold myself)???  Hopefully you can see there are numerous variables
	to consider. 

	Personally I answer the phone with "Thank You for holding" when the 
	wait time exceeds 3 or more minutes.  Granted it's not much but I
	do acknowledge the customer's patience.

	My experience is that while customers would like to have the phones 	
	answered faster at the front end their real complaints are the reponse
	times to their service requests that Cathy alluded ;-) to a few replies
	back due to understaffing. 

	My $.02, 

	Bill

    We all need to push for electronic interaction with the customer.
    DSNlink or whatever.  Digital could improve how it delivers this
    service, and we should actively promote it to the customer.
    I mean, throw the customer a 9600 baud modem for crying out loud.
    Fix the customer interface so it doesn't scare the customer, and
    make sure the call is routed properly automatically, and this would 
    solve a lot of problems.
    
    I personally would rather answer dsnlink calls all day long than
    talk to people on the phone who want to chat or dance around and
    complain.
    
    After logging one or two quick and easy calls and getting a quick
    answer, you'd never want to call the 800# for s/w support again,
    and you'd find out you'd probably have gotten an answer within 30
    minutes instead of being on hold for that time.
    
    I try to take electronic calls, or DTS (live) calls.  Our customers
    are often floored when they get directly to someone without going
    into the queue.
    
    Regards,
    MadMike

    Would something like the Microsoft Developer's Network and TechNet
    CD-ROM programs be a viable solution?  This would eliminate the
    day-to-day type questions and our Telephone Support could focus on the
    issue that cannot be resolved via the CD-ROM program.  I'm talking
    about taking TIMA or STARS and putting it on a CD for Business
    Partners.  Alot of calls I get from customer are resolved by looking
    into TIMA.
    
    	Regards,

    The Microsoft Developer's Network sucks eggs.  I can't count the times
    I've hung up due to eternal wait times.
    

    About a year ago I moved my customer, who logs mostly desktop calls, to
    Electronic Call Logging.  It's called Partner Access Link (PAL) and is
    a MS Windows based application.  The customer Help Desk reps all have
    it on their PC's and simply dial up the CSC and logs their own calls in
    a matter of a few minutes.  Since they are not on the phone with the
    CSC they are able to be more efficient and take more incoming calls. 
    The customer loves it and it really is a major service differentiator. 
    I understand that in the near future, the modems will be replaced by
    the internet.  

    As one who has to deal with the end result of calls being logged - I
    have had to answer to many customers who are "more than upset" with
    excessive hold times. I must admit that I hear few real angry
    complaints, they usually mention that it isn't like the "old days".
    
    And then they usually ask if I am still going to have a job.
    
    This company seems to have lost a real concern about the only people
    who reliably pay our salaries - customers with service contracts. What
    *was* that percentage that "Service" brought in? I hear lots of
    memo_noise regarding "SI" and "Consulting" but hey (Sorry) I don't
    really consider those areas as "MCS". To me "MCS" is the guys and gals
    that respond to customer service calls, day and night. Kinda like the
    Post Office - "Neither Rain not Snow..." "SI" and "Consulting" may
    bring in serious bucks, but that's not how the party started.
    
    CSC32::PITT makes some real honest comments regarding the "How do I..."
    kinda calls, and going "Critical" to go around the queue, but if I want
    a real live call-back WHILE i'M ON A CUSTOMER SITE that's the only way
    to do it. Out support structure has crumbled to dust. We used to have
    Support Level guys LOCALLY that got taken out in the first few waves
    and our support options have steadily dwindled. I can't be proficient
    at fixing every gizmo ever invented (or placed on contract), and I NEED
    to have someone available who has the time to READ. As it is, I fight
    with the kids over the phone so I can do a few hours here and there at
    home, on my own time. There just isn't enough time to read all the
    stuff that is thrown out there!
    
    And then let one (or more - Yikes!) engineers go on vacation...
    
    I could rave a lot more but you've all heard it before, and YOU'LL HEAR
    IT A LOT MORE when (if?) they flay another layer out of the Field. 
    
    I think we should log a call, and for the symptom - say something like
    "My company is broken, can you send someone right over?
    
    .mike.

    Ummm...
    
    Part of the Service might be delivered via the Web?  
    
    (cowers, expecting flamage)
                              

    I have been getting complaints like this for months if not years.  Here
    is a sample of today's customer complaint to me the MCS Unit Manager. 
    The customer (Director of Clinical Research at Kimberly-Clark) just 
    wants it fixed.  Any ideas?  We'll order him a battery tomorrow via MCS
    logistics.  (This fixes the problem but never addressed the issues!)
    
    
    I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M
    
                                            Date:     09-Jul-1996 04:25pm
                                            From:     VMSmail "garofalo@piper.kcc.com"@US2R*
    
    TO:  corrigan@aciss2@MRGATE@USRDC1
    
    Subject: I'm Upset
    
    You're my service representative so I'll bother you with this. I'm
    leasing several PC's through DFS as I'm sure you're aware. Two of those are
    Hinote Ultra's. The other 2 are a Venturis and a 466D2lpv+. Obviously, I would
    like all of them covered under my contract. However, the Hinotes are covered
    under this 'PASSPORT' system, which usually works, but just recently, failed 
    miserably.  
    
    The battery went DOA on one of the Hinotes. It won't accept a charge
    and won't even report it's existance. I thought it would be an easy solution to
    call for support and have the battery replaced. A call to the PASSPORT folks
    and a 15 minute wait for a human voice, produced another phone number (DEC
    PARTS) to call for the battery. DEC PARTS, and another 15 minute wait, suggested
    that since I've had the system only 1 year, that I call PASSPORT back and
    request their service(FASTER) [I don't think FASTER exists in Digital's
    vocabulary these days]. After another 15 minute wait, the PASSPORT folks said,
    YES!, they would honor the warranty. However, I would have to send them proof of
    purchase date. 
    
    Let's get real here..... I'm not an off-the-street purchaser of this
    equipment.
    
    All I want is a replacement battery!  I've already spent the equivalent
    of several batteries in my time alone and I'm not willing to waste any
    more time with this. If I can't get better service out of Digital, I'm just going
    to return the Hinotes and get some other brand.
    
    Can't we just scrap this PASSPORT coverage and put these computers on
    my contract?   I've tried to use the PASSPORT service 3 times now and only
    ONCE did I have success.....  33% is pretty poor response.
    
    In the meantime, I have a $5000 laptop portable that won't work without
    a wall outlet.
    
    Marty
    

    
    
    re .18
    
    >need someone who has the time to READ
    
    
    if you find that person, please let me know and I'll call them too...
    It's 9:30 pm. I started my phone shift at 7am. I'm still working on my
    research backlog....I've got it down to 50 calls. 
    I hate to disappoint you, but the folks you're calling on the 800
    number for support are struggleing to get the job done as much as you
    do, supporting as many different products, taking at least as many
    calls every day, with as little training and time to train ourselves.
    Nothing special here. This is the New Digital, just like every place
    else....
    Not flaming on you here, just trying to clear up your misconceptions
    about the support center.....
     

    re: a few back ....
    
    a) TIMA/STARS is *ALREADY* on CD-ROM in VMS and PC formats and available 
       to partners and customers
    
    b) DSNlink & DIA have *ALREADY* moved away from modems to the Internet as
       primary connection method.
    
    c) Part of the electronic customer service is *ALREADY* delivered via 
       the Web and the customers using it love it.
    
    MCS Electronic Delivery and Technical Information Management has been
    right on the ball with improved electronic access solutions....
    
    BUT;
    
    The problem is (as succinctly put by CSC32::PITT) - the services we
    sell are *TELEPHONE* support services and we don't have enough folks on
    the phones!
    
    The electronic access services are "sweetners" or "delighters" as they
    used to be called.  With very few minor exceptions, they are not
    actually "sold" - simply used to aid the sales of other service
    contracts.  The service that is sold is the old style high value 
    guaranteed response time telephone support (Offsite) and, if necessary, 
    OnSite break/fix.
    
    The sad thing is we have the capability to deliver differently but we
    do not have the management will to change the selling/revenue model. 
    Just a focus on cost-reduction and the inevitable complaints.
    
    /Chris

    Chris,
    
    A quick check here told, that we do not yet have the DSNlink over
    Internet even in this Internet-pioneering country. Perhaps you should
    have said:
    
    >>b) DSNlink & DIA "can *ALREADY* be moved" away from modems to the Internet
    >>as primary connection method ;-).
    
    As with everything in this company, what the field has and knows is 
    different from, what is planned and available from some central
    organisation.
    
    I'm personally very interested in this issue due to support needs for
    our Internet product and services deliveries.
    
    --Ritva

    There used to be an Advanced Electronic Support (AES) implementation
    manager......
    
    Chris's remark (Electronic delivery is just a sweetener) is very much
    on the mark. Marketing needed AES to get the contract retention rate up
    many, many years ago, and ever since has not recognized an opportunity.
    We could have positionned this as a paid-for service, or paid-for
    beyond some basic services. There was a time that DSNlink beat
    everything that our competitors could do. It might still in some ways.
    
    Compare this to the "LOGITEL" service I pay for. It allows me to do 
    some very basic things to my bank accounts via remote electronic
    access. It saves the bank on space,
    tellers, forms, machines. But they let *me* pay for the privilige
    of *not* coming into their office and bother them. Which I am happy to
    do, really, because I save a trip by car and can do it 7x24x365. And
    it just might have kept some other charges down.
    
    This could bring in more money on both the cost *and* revenue sides.
    There is still time (and an Engineering group). And a pretty good
    operations group, when last I looked. Anyone: Can we fix the business
    end? The rest is done.
    
    Al
             

    Ritva,
    
    	We'd be happy to have Finland on board.  The VBO Internet gateway is 
    open for business for European pilot DSNlink customers since September
    '95.  CXO has been open with DIA over Internet for 2 years or more.  
    Sydney for a year or more, Japan going live in Q1.  Once we are overtaken 
    by the volume of our success, we can look at local Internet gateways as 
    implemented in CXO, SNO, TKO and soon to be implemented in Munich 
    and Basingstoke
    
    We need to get your local AES representative committed to Finnish 
    implementation - let's take that discussion offline.  
    
    All of this is rather academic anyway - the point is that no matter
    how much Internet capability is provided, the customers are being sold
    'phone support and we don't have the coverage.
    
    /Chris.
    

    I'm still waiting for an answer/comments on 4706.20.  
    
    I've been in a similar situation with my Hinote Ultra (three times) and
    got shuttled from phone to phone.  I asked to speak to the on-call mgr 
    after the third event - he wasn't available and they refused to give 
    me his name or phone number so I could call him back (they did let slip 
    that it was a he, so I used my contacts to track him down - boy, was he 
    surprised.)
    
    I also know an existing PC customer in Boston (wife of a Digital employee)
    who was ready to buy laptops for her company and went elsewhere because of
    the poor support her husband got from Digital.  She figured if we can't 
    look after the productivity tools our own people use to get their jobs
    done.......
    
    I know the (few) worker bees we have left in MCS work their guts out, but
    it doesn't help knowing that when you're off the air.  And it would be 
    nice if our call handling systems were a little easier to navigate your 
    way through and more responsive.
      
    
    
     
        
    
    

We're in the midst of trying to win over the hearts/minds of folks in Ford 
Manufacturing to select our messagebus product. One of their key concerns is
support. I knew that there were problems with CSC support (and I'm not blaming
the folks that work their ---- worker bees). How have I been made aware of the
problems with the CSC, because my "loyal" Ford customers have been
whispering/joking/teasing me about the "high quality" of telephone support
they've been getting, they've been driven now to using 
DSNLINK and "crossing their fingers", hoping that someone would get back to
them. They still use the phone support line from time-to-time, but their
expectations of receiving answers have "tapered" off quite a bit. They (Ford)
are begining to believe that not getting a call back from Colorado, is now the
"NORM". As I mentioned before, support is one of the "criteria" for us winning
this messagebus business. I've given the 1-800-354-9000 number to Ford to use,
we have been working/pushing very hard for Ford to consider our product, they've
narrowed it down to two products ---- ours and another vendors ---- CSC support
could now, help push us over the edge (as a differentiator), Ford is already 
complaining about the other vendors support line, CSC support (good support)
could help us win this! When I hear about customers being put on hold waiting
for a response ---- it really makes me cringe! 

When are the manufacturing (late/missed deliveries/shipped to wrong location),
field service (2+ days to repair broken systems), and CSC (decline in quality of
phone support service) management going to realize this is "one company", we're
all intertwined in this, business is lost/won because of actions of other
groups. With my customer --- 

          - can I point to accurate delivery/build of their systems as a        
            differentiator? --- No (they tease/joke with me about this also)

	  - can I point to field services ability to fix/repair their systems
            within the terms of their service contract as a key differentiator? 
               ---- No (again I get the ribbing)

          - can I point to the CSC as being "timely" and "responsive" to 
            their calls? ----- No (once again ribbing)

I don't blame the CSC support engineers, I don't blame the folks on the line in
manufacturing and I sure don't blame the "field service engineers", this is not
their fault. They've all been given marching orders to peddle a bicycle, with no
peddles, flat tires and no handle bars for steering ------ and are expected to
compensate for lack of those things ---- and delivery a "high quality service"
---!   I could share other "tid bits" of information with you, but, I think 
I've said enough for now. Someone in management has to start thinking "about the
customers", "about the employees", when we say "we're a first class service
organization", they'd better first "look to see if we really are or not", 
You cannot hide the truth from customers, cannot make them believe something is
what it is --- is not, especially when they live the "Digital" experience from
day-to-day. All credibility goes out the window.


RC

    	They could have continued to pay top $ for our excellent service but
    they elected to make us like everybody else.

    There's LOTS of different kinds of CSC support.  If any of your
    customer's need a "guaranteed" support response, I suggest you check
    our Mission Critical, Response Management, and our Silver and Gold
    services which not only "guarantee" a response, we also provide a named
    account rep from the CSC that will KNOW their environment.......
    
    The "Ford" deal sounds like the perfect opportunity for this one.
    
    Just mine......
    
    Toodles......JPs
    

My customer tried the 1-800 number for support and guess what? He gave up after
being on hold for ?? minutes.... Bottom line is now I'm on the phone as I type
this...  waiting for someone in the CSC to answer a question regarding our
messsaging product ... that the customer was orginally going to ask, let him
go to lunch, hope that I can cover and have his answers for him when he returns. 
Still no answer, oops answer, now they're re-routing me to "internal support".
Frustration is building......


Will keep you posted on whether we lose this business as a result of this or
not, perhaps it will be only one of the factors, maybe not at all, but I will 
let everyone know. (I'm on hold again)..... :(

RC

Boy, once you get someone at the CSC, it's great, they're great people. 
Like I said before, the problem is not the people, but with they way 
they've been told they  have to do their job (no peddles,handle bars and
flat tires).


Dominque (not sure on the spelling) of the DECMessageQ support group, 
you're great!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RC.

    RC - If you have issues with access to the CSC, you might want to
    address a note to Elizabeth Nolan (@CXO).  She manages the
    organization.  I'm sure she'd be very interested in Ford's comments
    about responsiveness.
    
    	dave
    

    Hmm, maybe someone here can answer this.  I bought an XL pc
    a few years ago when I was a non-Deccie, and I later bought 
    extended service contracts for the pc and monitor.  I have the
    paperwork for the extended service contracts showing I paid and
    everything, but when I call in, Dec demands some magic id number
    before they can provide service, and no one ever gave me that
    magic number.  This isn't holding anything up at the moment, I'm
    living with the problem, but it would be nice to have that number
    for when I need it.
    

    
    According to BP's Q&A, after we cut 7,000 heads our service to
    customers will be enhanced and even more effecient. You would figure
    that Janet Wallace or John Rando would be made aware of this string.
    Oh, I forgot, they are busy going over plans to cut their share of
    the herd.

    RE:    <<< Note 4706.21 by CSC32::PITT >>>

 ->   if you find that person, please let me know and I'll call them too...
    
    That's the point I was making, we USED to have Support Level types who
    HAD the time to do the research and the reading. We don't anymore. 
    Taking that layer (District Support) out meant that ALL calls now have
    to go to CSC, and District Support types can no longer help out the CSC
    by taking calls out of their queues. I said it was a stupid move when
    they did it, and it's still a stupid move.
    
    I have no misconceptions about how the CSC works - I know that you are
    (usually) way behind and I do my best not to bother...but some
    situations just require a timely answer, and that's something that we
    don't get anymore.
    
    .mike.

    Unfortunately, all our product documentation (for U.S. products, at
    least) lists the 800-354-9000 telephone number for obtaining telephone
    support.  This can be both good and bad -- it gives the customer only
    one telephone number to remember, but locating and obtaining the
    support they need may be yet another story altogether.
    
    This number is used for accessing support for virtually any product
    which we provide telephone support (and then some).  Because of this,
    the structure of the "call routing system" (press 1 for Hardware, press
    2 for Software, etc) is long and, perhaps, complex.  
    
    It is not unusual for someone to misdirect themselves to the wrong
    department for support, and this is (I believe) where a great number 
    of the hold-time complaints come from.  To be honest, it is also not
    unheard of for a customer to be misdirected several times as well
    (after reaching a live individual) because the support person may
    themselves not know where to direct the customer.
    
    For the record, if a customer requires Digital PC Warranty Support,
    they would be better served by calling 800-554-3333.  This is for
    Digital's Personal Computer Warranty Support (Warranty only, not
    Contract).  Digital PC customers can call here for hardware support and
    get to the proper department by making a single selection (press 1 for
    Starion, 2 for Desktop, 3 for Laptop, etc).  
    
    Yes, there are sometimes spikes in our hold times, but this is rare and
    is constantly monitored.  For the record, however, waiting 30-minutes
    in a single phone queue (eg. non-cumulative phone hold times) is
    unheard of, at least in this department.
    
    -Andy

    I have got to admit that my comments allowed for some great
    discussions here.  To be more specific, I logged a call on a VAX 6000
    system with a bad K.SCSI on my HSC90.  The 800 number was called
    followed by 1 1 for hardware support.  Once the gentleman answered, the
    call was quickly logged and a log # provided.  When I jokingly
    mentioned that I was on hold for 22 minutes (yes..I did time it!!) he
    then said that he was the only one there at the moment answering the
    phone.
    
    I also have friends who are MAJOR customers of DEC and have voiced the
    same concerns to me for a while now.  I just hate the thought of
    customers (those people who actually pay our salaries) waiting for
    help. Maybe I am just old fashioned !!!!
    
    Again, I AM NOT FLAMING THE PEOPLE AT THE CSC !!!!!
    
    Sam

    
    
    
    re .35
    
    You are absolutely correct. 
    We USED to have a seperate organization that dealt specifically with
    Internal Digital folks. We tried to explain to the "powers" that be,
    that the internal business and the customer business were different and
    that in combining them, it would be the internal folks who suffered. 
    So, based on our advice, we merged teams anyways and of course, the
    first thing that happened was the internal folks starting getting the
    same lousy response times the customers had been getting! 
    
    Kinda like borrowing money from one credit card that is over it's
    credit limit already, to make a payment on another credit that's 
    over it's credit limit!!! 

    
    re .37
    
    >again, I'M NOT FLAMING CSC PEOPLE
    
    we know that.  we hate it as much as you do  8-}
    

    Ok, I'm an unreasonable idiot... 
    
    I was onsite at a customer who was having problems getting through to 
    the CSC so as a DEC employee with a customer satisfaction issue with
    CSC I called to intervene and guide the escalation.
    
    We were to have a meeting (onsite) with the customer to answer their 
    questions at 1:00pm.  It was 8:30am.
    
    I called, and logged a hotline call and requested that a resource 
    be made available at 1:00PM to solve this customer sat isssue and 
    get their questions answered for this POLYcenter Product...
    
    Called back at 11am to confirm the concall (hoped to get a name but 
    I was told everything's on track)
    
    1:00 with the customer .. No call, No Page... Ok let's give it just 
    a little more time...
    
    1:15  Call up CSC  Log number.. Oh.. It' in the queue... 
          In the Queue?  It was supposed to schedule a concall with 
          the product team member who knows about this stuff...
          
          Escalate:  We'll page them...Mark it critical.
    
    1:30  Nada
    
    1:35  Call Back, Team's busy we'll page thats the best we can do
          Why did I even bother to try and schedule something if I
          just get dumped back into the queue... No answer...
    
    1:45  Call from Polycenter Product... For wrong OS... Customer had
          OS specific questions too.
    
    1:50  Call back... Oh.. we'll page the right team...
    
    1:59  Call back,... Never mind the customer has to attend to other 
          things today besides waiting breathlessly besides the phone
          waiting for Digital to return a call.  Guess they'll dump  
          this polycenter sw and get something else...
    
    Customer moves on with thier day... Sales Team looks at each other
    like what kind of company do we have behind us...
    
    ---------------
    
    
    Everytime there is problem with CSC someone (a tech person) comes
    on here and explains the innerworkings of the CSC and the problems.  
    
    I don't care, My customers don't care.  We don't care if other companies 
    are leaving customers hang for 4 days on hold or not... 
    
    We're talking about Digital Customer Support.... when 5 hours isn't 
    enough time to schedule a phone call something is big-time broken.
    
    Folks... It's bad... It's embarassing, and I'm sorry so many good 
    technical folks are caught in the middle of this but we need to 
    either fix CSC or close it down.  
    
    For the last two time (in a row I've been embarassed to the point of 
    climbing under a chair when customers have tried to contact or work 
    with CSC.  
    
    Something has to be done... Right now...
    
    Or I and my customers will just stop using CSC and paying for it...
    
    JMHO.. and my Customers...
    
    John Wisniewski
    Sales Support
    
    

    
    
    re .40
    
    Yeah, I know just what you mean. I feel the same embarrassment and
    frustration when I log a DN/DR (District Notification/Resource
    required) at the request of the customer, and get a callback from the
    customer 2 days later asking me why he hasn't heard from the local
    office on this critical issue yet......
    I might follow your lead and try crawling under a chair next time....
    
    

re: .40

Sorry, I would not have done it that way.  I would have logged a call
at 8:30, and escalated appropriately until about 11am, then a MOD call.
Once I had got the answers I needed for the one o'clock, the meeting would
have been a success, rather than depending on the right people to be
ready for a con-call they may have had no prior knowledge of.

I think you own this one.

Brad.

    doubtless, Rando will get a raise.
    
    most everyone else.... er.....
    
    (BTW - can someone go and take the fuse out of the plug on Randos's PC,
    and delete every file on it before you do that. Then insist he pretends
    he is a customer)
    
    Enjoy.
    
    He won't
    
    
    AW

    RE: -.1
    
    why should anyone have to do that to make sure someone keeps their
    word?!?  if i promise i'll be on a con-call at 1300, i'm there.  you
    don't have to keep calling and reminding me. 
    
    all this stuff that's being discussed (ranted?) about right now boils
    down to one simple thing: a people problem.  maybe the wrong someone in
    a given job, maybe someone who is unable to do a job, maybe someone who
    has a lousy attitude, maybe (more and more these days) not enough
    someones, or maybe too many someones in the chain between the customer
    and the answer.
    
    sadly, this problem is not peculiar to the CSC.

.44>word?!?  if i promise i'll be on a con-call at 1300, i'm there.  you
    
    Not if you work in interrupt-by-customer driven telephone support. To
    make sure you can call someone at 1:00pm you better don't take any call
    after 11:00 am or else you might being stuck in a critical call by
    1:00pm.
    
    Not with Microsoft Support. I called them a couple of weeks
    ago. My contract allowed for 2 calls per quarter. First thing I was
    told: "If I don't have an answer right away I can't help." After 10
    minutes I was "pushed" away. I bet they wouldn't even know that you can
    setup con-calls.
    
    Guenther

>                     <<< Note 4706.42 by NCMAIL::SMITHB >>>

>re: .40

>Sorry, I would not have done it that way.  I would have logged a call
>at 8:30, and escalated appropriately until about 11am, then a MOD call.
>Once I had got the answers I needed for the one o'clock, the meeting would
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    You assume I had the questions to begin with...
    
>have been a success, rather than depending on the right people to be
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                      You're right.. I had no business depending on CSC
                      with only 5 hours notice and I should have started
                      escalating immediately and continually calling to 
                      drive my log number up to the highest attention so 
                      you'll deal with me just to get rid of my persistance...
    
    Unfortunately I was on other issues for this 20 million dollar a year
    customer during most of the morning... Ones that didn't require
    contacting the CSC...
    
>ready for a con-call they may have had no prior knowledge of.
        
    It's not my fault you have a fire-fighting scheduling system.
    I tried to give 5 hours notice for the expertise I required
    for a CUSTOMER SATISFACTION MEETING.
    
>I think you own this one.
            I own every single one that I go out on... But the team let 
            me down behind enemy lines....Logistics wasn't there, backup 
            didn't kick in and no extra effort was sustained... 
            So I was out there naked and alone... As usual...
>Brad.

    
    Brad...
    
    I'm in Sales Support.  I have no prior knowledge (except perhaps
    a topic) when going into most calls.  I try not to use CSC but 
    there comes a time that I need an Expert on some obsure software
    we sell and I have never used... 
    
    The customer in question had been in repeated cycles with CSC... 
    I tried to do better for them, marshall the Digital resources, 
    schedule a time to hide the exessively long time it takes CSC
    to get back on customer issues...
    
    If I can't ask for an "Expert" at a specfic Time from CSC  to 
    answer 20 questions for a customer who has purchased the product
    and support, you are absolutely right I own this one.
    
    And with that empowerment I'll find anyone else or any other organization 
    to support my customer's support requests.  Also those complex DEC
    products...Gone.. I'll only put products in place that I can support
    with my sales team or I know my customer will never have questions 
    about...And I'll fund the support out of the sales and customers 
    allowances and payments that used to go for Digital Support...
    
    And when the entire support structure's revenues dry up...
    
    Don't blame the field...
    
    Don't blame the customers...
    
    Blame the people who didn't want to be scheduled or who didn't want 
    to schedule those 10 minute Con Calls in advance...
    
    Blame the people who didn't want to fix the CSC's problems...
    
    JMHO but it's more and more becoming my customers...
    
    John W.

RE. 46

	As a CSC Body in Sydney Australia we are in the position of 
being the English Speaking CSC for the AP Region. In the Alpha 
hardware support group we have 2 people, in the PC support space we 
have 2... The same 2 PEOPLE!. My telephone runs off the hook during 
the day, and well into the night due to the fact that I HELP MY 
CUSTOMERS. I have customers calling at 4am in the morning with system 
down problems, and I AM HAPPY to help them, but this can only go on 
for so long before I will not turn up to work the next day. 

<ON SOAPBOX>

	If we want to service the customer better.. we need MORE warm 
bodies on seat who give a damn and actually understand something 
about what they are supporting. The customer should NEVER see 
our Internal Politics EVER.

<OFF SOAPBOX>

Steve

Sydney RSSG Group
steve@stl.dec.com

The call tracking system at the CSC is not geared toward an appointment 
environment. In a busy team the typical specialist stares at a screen with
50 to 100+ calls listed. Something like....

CHAMP/CSC               SHOW RETURN CALL LIST (BRIEF)                10-JUL-96
V3.3-123     Badge: 173118             114 elements in list            18:23:43

Key: (2)Queue: OSAPPL
Idx  Obligation ID  /SubID/Typ     Contact Name                            LK
   Product                    Component   Customer Programs                  Prc


   1. 23426                  A      STEVE OLIVER
   Dig FORTRAN U/A TRAD LIC                                                   N
   In:  9-JUL 10:26  Attempts:  6  Last: 10-JUL 11:13  By: 306361  TZ: CST
   <s1>43:FORTRAN V4.0 OF F77 FOR UNIX V3.2D -> JUST INSTALLED A
   NEW<cb9-JUL10:26> elev. 1 Janel24111
  2. 669870                 A      DON CARNEY
   DEC OSF/1 Unltd Addl Usr   CC                                              N
   In: 10-JUL 07:54  Attempts:  1  Last: 10-JUL 08:57  By: 329059  TZ: EST
   <s3>osf 1 3.2 c programming language - using function call sigaction - for
   sigalarm - signal not interrupting read but starting a read sh75440
.
.
.
100+ lines of this stuff!

Your call was probably buried in this mess with a problem description that 
read something like...

  58. 892292                 A      JASON ROSENBERG
   ULTRIX WS Right-to-Copy    FORTRAN                                         N
   In:  9-JUL 18:22  Attempts:  3  Last: 10-JUL 12:26  By: 306361  TZ: EST
   <s3>unix 4.0 needs to obtain new(latest)version of Fortran compiler
   vt25494 <cb 10-Jul 9:39> jane24070  <appt> 1:00pm
					^^^^^^^^
.
.
No one is going to pick this out and call you at 1:00pm!

If you want a specialist at a specific time, be sure that you have a specific
person on the phone before-hand with arrangements for that specialist to 
contact you again at 1:00pm.

Pat Lampert  CSC 

Looks like John did everything right. Why does he need to know the rules or 
the way the CSC works to get it right? That's not customer service. It does 
sound like an internally focused group though. If it was not possible to 
service John's request then John should have been told and not left in the 
belief it would happen.

Dave.

ref .-1..

> Internally focused.

> John should not have been left with the belief that his appt. would happen.

        You are right. The customer should not have to worry about our internal
        systems. I posted that note to illustrate the frustrating position we are in, and
        to also provide an internal employee with a hint on how to get what he needs next
        time. John should not have been given the impression that "everything was set" for
        the 1:00pm appt. It wasnt.

	I feel bad for what happened to John, and wanted to do something to help him in 
	the future and possibly enlighten others who read these notes.

	I will see what I can do to get managment to read this thread...


Pat

    I agree.  In this particular instance, there was a pre-set expectation
    that John and customer would receive a callback at a designated time to
    participate in a con-call.  Although the CSC (and it's tools) are not
    particularly structured to work in an appointment-driven mode, if there
    is a commitment by an individual to call at a predetermined time, then
    the individual owns the responsibility to do so.  Now, when the 
    responsible party fails to meet their commitment, who looks to be the
    bad-guy?  The CSC, of course.
    
    Early in my (almost 17-year) tenure with this company, I somehow
    learned that setting a customer's expectation can at times be
    detrimental.  Our hearts might be in the right place but, unless we 
    can deliver, we end up doing everyone a disservice.  I suspect
    there was no blatant disregard for the customer here -- someone
    erroneously made a committment which could not be met.  Unfortunately,
    it does not reflect directly on the indivudual who made the error in
    judgement; it reflects on the CSC as a whole.
    
    Whilst it is fresh in my mind, I want to note that one of the areas
    where the CSC really fails is in it's service delivery mechanics:
    
    - Some groups take customers live; others work in strictly callback
      mode
    - Some groups use elecronic symptom/solution and problem reporting
      tools such as DSNlink/DIA; others do not
    - Some groups validate customer contract/warranty information and deny
      service if necessary; others do not
    
    Some groups may even be set up to work in an appointment mode (I know
    the previous group I worked in *did* do this on a small scale and on an
    exception basis) but I doubt it.
    
    It sure would be nice if everyone ran their support business the same
    way so everyone would know what everyone else was doing.
    
    -Andy

    The CSC is very much customer-focused. We use a queueing system
    because this provides the best chance of meeting our customers chief
    needs (fast response, timely quality fix, this is what they tell us). 
    
    The problem with a queueing system, though, is that when you don't have
    enough resources taking work out of the queue, the backlog builds up
    rapidly. Thus there will be times when no, 5 hours is not enough to
    schedule a call back. However, that is the level of resource Digital
    chooses to invest in this service. 
    
    Taking the opportunity to explain this to an internal colleague in an
    internal notes conference is NOT a sign of being internally-focused.
    Internally-focused is when you organise your group to suit yourselves
    rather than your customers. We are using the best system we know to
    deliver the service our customers deserve, with the resources we are
    given.
    
    However, I agree that a customer, internal or external, should not have
    their expectations falsely set. Nor should resourcing problems ever be
    given to a customer as an excuse for poor service. It's not their
    problem. 
    
    cheers,
    
    Tony Imbierski
    UK CSC 

    
    	Our internal help desk, logs 90% of the F/S call for our site HLO.
    DSNlink works great for logging software related F/S calls. When we
    call 1-800-354-9000 and use the 1,1 options, which is for remote
    diagnosis calls. Our average wait time on the phone is in the 25-30
    minute range, our maximum time was 48 minutes one day.
    	Needless to say we have to dedicate 1 person a day, to stay on
    hold. So our own internal call abandonment rate doesn't go through
    the roof. If we can, we wait and log F/S calls during 2nd and 3rd
    shift where response time is quicker.
    
    Ron

    
    You don't need to know the rules or the way the CSC works to get
    it right however it's sort of like calling the emergency room of a
    large hospital and asking to have one of the doctors call you back
    at 1pm to address customer satisfaction issues around surgery that you 
    were thinking about having.  It's likely that you'll be disappointed 
    when the Dr doesn't call you back at 1pm because whatever emergency 
    that just came in the door is occupying their attention. 

    With so many of the technical people getting laid off in the field 
    the folks at the CSC are being asked to do education, capacity planning,
    configuration, consulting and 'how do I?' but they've been contracted
    to do remedial support so that usually takes precedence. 

    The CSC ends up doing a lot of the other stuff too but our primary 
    concern on the software side is more along the lines of a customer
    calling with 'we have 50000 messages that aren't moving off our system, 
    our system manager was retrenched last week, and these mail messages are 
    orders from our customers that need to be filled today, can you tell
    us what to do?'
                                      
    We would like for our customers to schedule their emergencies in an
    orderly fashion but they insist on calling when these things happen.
    go figure.  
    
    However if it was important for my customer to talk to a sales person 
    I think that I would do more than call a sales office and leave a 
    message for a sales person to do an important con call at 1pm. 

    JMO,

    Angela
    Multivendor Customer Support
    Sydney

     

    Re: .54, to continue the ER analogy (tongue FIRMLY in cheek),
    
    I guess it's time we went on war footing and started to triage our
    customers and their problems
    
    	Category 1 -	customers with simple problems that we should fix 
    			right away, maintain a level of customer
    			satisfaction, and retain for the future.
    
    	Category 2 -	customers with more difficult problems that haven't
    			written us off completely.  We should work on these
    			problems after we address all Category 1 issues.
    
    	Category 3 -	customers with difficult problems that are already
    			"upset" with Digital - write 'em off and work on
    			Category 1 and 2.
    
    Only problem is, in this business, all customers eventually become
    Category 3.
    
    	Bill
    

    FWIW, Tim Daniels, a writer of an article in the August issue of
    Windows NT magazine, did a stealth 2am (EDT) test of Digital's
    Windows NT support.  Digital charged him $90.  His conclusion:
    the service was right on, solved his problems, recommended
    resources to learn more, and the service was well worth the $90.
    Total time to get the problem solved was 38 minutes.  K

    I work with the LST Language Support Group in Colorado Spg.   In the 
    last few years I have seen 10-15 people leave and NO backfill.  In
    addition our group inherited VIA products which did not go to Oracle
    - 3 people transfered out  - I am the last.    
    
    We used to go for DTS - direct to specialist but frankly we are in
    'keep our head above water mode' now.  More Specialists would help
    alot - but no relief in sight so we (and our customers) just have 
    to make do.   
    
    The field has lost alot of talent and this effects us because we
    end up back filling and getting pulled into ROP - Revenue Opportunities
    which are good money makers but still this pulls more people off the
    phone.  Internal DECcies out in the field are spread thin which means
    they rely on us more.   
    
    Alot of customers expectations are also INCORRECT as far as turnaround
    times and what exactly customers are entitled to.  We are correcting
    customer expectations and starting to generate revenue with what we 
    used to give away - but again this pulls people off phones... 
    
    My bottom line is that as long as our teams are pulled away from
    phones, not staffed adequately, pulled into what was local office
    issues, etc...    you can expect longer wait times and Specialists
    who are not necessarily trained as well as before in product areas.   
    Our biggest problems are headcount, training and the general stress
    out dealing with the fallout which causes more and more people to 
    move into positions off the phones.    Seems like a thankless job
    sometimes well - back to phones.
    
    				Chip 

    You know what's scary about this whole string?
    
    Palmer has been telling the press that half of the 7,000 bodies to be
    dumped will come from "support" functions.
    
    I guess some people don't feel its as bad as it sounds.

    Well it's one thing to be stabbed in the back but I hope people don't
    start telling us off for bleeding on the carpet afterwards!
    
    Tony I

re: -.46 

>    You assume I had the questions to begin with...

	You didn't?  And you expected to dump your questions cold on someone
at the CSC in front of a customer?  No.
    
>    It's not my fault you have a fire-fighting scheduling system.
>    I tried to give 5 hours notice for the expertise I required
>    for a CUSTOMER SATISFACTION MEETING.
>            I own every single one that I go out on... But the team let 
>            me down behind enemy lines....Logistics wasn't there, backup 
>            didn't kick in and no extra effort was sustained... 
>            So I was out there naked and alone... As usual...

Being a delivery consultant in the field for the last 6 years, I know what
you are faced with.  However, you of all people have no excuse.  If you 
have had even minimal contact with customers, then you have dealt with 
the CSC previously at least once.  If the customer had a satisfaction
issue with the CSC, they should have talked to a manager there, not 
a technical person, and if they had satisfaction problems with a product,
you should have involved the product manager.

>    The customer in question had been in repeated cycles with CSC... 
>    I tried to do better for them, marshall the Digital resources, 
>    schedule a time to hide the exessively long time it takes CSC
>    to get back on customer issues...
    
Again, a management issue.

>    If I can't ask for an "Expert" at a specfic Time from CSC  to 
>    answer 20 questions for a customer who has purchased the product
>    and support, you are absolutely right I own this one.
    
You can ask an 'Expert', but you have to wait in line like everyone else.

Brad.

    
    
    I agree, more or less, with .60. 
    After re reading your original note (.40)?  the one thing that struck
    me is how PISSED I'd pulled a call from the queue with some nebulous
    problem statement like "questions on polycenter" and found that I was
    expected to answer, off the top of my head" 20 questions from a room 
    full of customers-with-attitude to make or break a wazillion dollar 
    deal. 
    
    The correct way to do this (for future reference) is to call a MOD,
    tell him your situation and have him line up the BEST person on the
    specific product your customers want to discuss. Give that person
    some time to prepare, to gather materials, and to even line up a
    second resource to 'call pair' and lend some support. 
    If it had been me logging a call of this critical nature, I'd have
    gotten the MODs name and told him/her you'd hold while they found you
    the name of the techincal person. Then I would have spoken to the
    technical person well ahead of time. 
    For what it's worth, you or someone else mentioned that someone had
    given you their word that you'd get a callback at a specific time.
    Unfortunatly, you never spoke to anyone who was in a position to
    guarantee anything. The most the CSS can do is log the call as
    critical and put the requested callback time on it. For the most part,
    we DON'T do appointments, though we do try to reach the customer as
    close to the desired time as possible without hanging up on another
    customer to do it.  
    
    It's MOST important to remember that above all, we're in 'this'
    together and setting each other up to fail just to prove that we will
    isn't going to win us points with the customer. 
    It's bad enough when a customer sets us up, we need to try and work
    smarter together so we're not setting each other up too....
    

    I've taken the specifics off line regarding .40 but I want all 
    of you to understand this:
    
    The customer wasn't able to get CSC to repond to the original 
    request for help.
    
    CSC Managers were involved in this call.
    
    CSC channels were notified at the time of the event.
    
    The Expertise requested of CSC was on a single specific product
    that the customer was trying to get working.
    
    Everytime someone relays an story about CSC that discusses a 
    specific type of problem, there is always a "CORRECT" way or 
    reason why it didn't work right...
    
    I and my customers are way past caring anymore about being trained 
    to use CSC.
    
    
    
    Fix it or Not... We're at the bottom here and many of us in the field
    will start finding new ways to support our customers.

    
    
    >will find new ways to start supporting our customers
    
    
    great! then maybe I can get a vacation day 8-}}}

It may become rather more permanent than a vacation day.



	A level of spares for hardware

	A third party h/w maint. org.

	A third party s/w support org.


Maybe I'll even get a commission on the services as well
as get some customer satisfaction.....


	 

    I want to state publically that I am very greatfull for the help all 
    you folks at the CSC have given me over the last 8 years.  Without you
    I would have been much less than a success at many customer sites.
    
    Regards,
    
    Ray 

    Like every organization today the "CSC" is continually changing. The
    assumption that employees and customers understand who you are (today) and 
    what you do (today) needs to be tested.  The "CSC" needs to implement
    an ongoing communications program that ( reaches out ) to those who need 
    to know...
    
    Who's Who in the CSC - (today)?
    How is your organization structured?
    How do the various groups within your organization support one another?
    What services do you offer?
    How can customers and employees make efficient use of your services? 
    What level of service should customers and employees expect (today)?
    What is the standard escalation process - giving names, titles, &
    timeframes?
    Where can employees find current CSC reference/support documentation?  
    example: Where can I find a welcome kit with instructions for new customers?
    
    
    This base note has 64 replies, many of which are people who have given
    up.  If there is anyone at the "CSC", with an accountable position, 
    who has not given up, would you please provide some valued information
    in response to the questions posed in this reply?
    
     Sincerely,
    
     Dave Stevens
     Service Business Manager
     Boston/Eastern MA District
     DTN: 238-4204
    
     PS.  I have a customer who had planned to add another 600 seats on a
          PC Utility, but will not even consider Digital until we "fix the
          CSC".  Here are a few sequence numbers for example: C9607031443 
          ( 1 week no call back )   C960710719 ( 4 hr. call back to say 
          "you don't have an agreement",customer is in DBOS.)  We
          have another multimillion dollar PC Utility customer who wants to 
          pull out because of inadequate phone support.  Here we can
    	  measure the consequences in multimillion dollar losses. Communication
          is key and we all own a piece of the responsibility to ensure it 
          takes place.    
       
          

    Dave - 
    
    As I said earlier, the person who has ultimate responsibility for the
    CSC is Elizabeth Nolan (@ BSS).  The person who is responsible for
    "operations" issues is Pat Witkum (@ SHR).  These are folks who are in
    a position to respond to your concerns, but who do NOT participate in
    this forum.
    
    Perhaps a note to them describing your issues might at least start us
    on the road to implementing a fix.
    
    	dave
    

    One of my customers discovered a very innovative way of avoiding
    problems with the (UK) CSC. He left his position as a customer to come
    and work for Digital at the CSC answering the kind of calls he'd been
    making. Now he gets to see it from the other side.
    
    The phrase "out of the frying pan, into the fire" springs to mind.
    
    regards
    john

    
    .66
    
    Is this the same Dave Stevens that used to work at DDO years ago??
    If so, he may already know Elizabeth Nolan, as she came to the CSC
    from Chicago.
    
    Mark

    
    
    Well on the BRIGHT side, I just got off the phone with a customer
    (US MARINE CORP) who's network monitor was down, the one that monitors
    ALL of the systems on ALL of the bases where there are marines. 
    We got it fixed and he proceeded to tell me that Digital has the
    BEST support center bar none. He said that they have alot of other
    vendor equipment and have to deal with alot of other support 
    organizations and none come even close to Digitals. 
    
    ......calls like that one always make the rest of the day go a little
    bit better  8-}

    Maybe this should go in the 'what works' note as well, but ...
    
    I really don't have anything bad to say about the CSC.  In twelve years
    of using the CSC and its previous incarnations, I've found them to be
    (always) courteous, (almost always) knowledgeable, and (usually)
    prompt.  Even with the truly bizarre things that I come up with
    sometimes, usualy taking V1 of some product and pushing it past its
    limits.
    
    So, a cheer from this end for CSC folks.I know I wouldn't want their
    job.
    
    Roy

I sent mail to John with instructions on how to delete 4720.  It was
intended as a reply to this string.

	dave
================================================================================
Note 4720.0              Some information about the CSC               No replies
BSS::ZINN                                           111 lines  12-JUL-1996 14:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Since I haven't seen anyone else endeavoring to answer the questions in
    .66, I will try to provide some info.  I am a first level manager at
    the Colo Springs CSC site.  My responses are not in the same order as
    the questions.
    
    First, let me clarify a point - it may seem like a nit, but the CSC
    doesn't offer any services.  We deliver services that have been defined
    within the service delivery menu and contracts.  The reason I note this
    is that there is a philosophical push from upper management to start to
    deliver specifically and only those services which have been purchased
    by a particular customer.  This has to be well understood by all
    elements of the organization, and must be made clear to the customer
    as part of the expectation setting process.  Otherwise, we are doomed
    to failure in the customer's eyes.
    
    In the past, MCS tended to deliver more than the contract stipulated,
    and this set customer expectations with which we are still living.
    Even today, Sales and Field personnel sometimes set unrealistic expec-
    tations in their discussions with the customers.  It is rapidly becom-
    ing incumbent upon us all to read the standard contracts, understand
    what is being committed, and ensure the customer thoroughly understands
    what has been purchased.  With headcount reductions everywhere, we may
    still not always be able to deliver to commitments.  We can, however,
    eliminate the unrealistic expectations and the dissatisfaction that
    those expectations generate.
    
    Under the new menu, there are four levels of software support; in
    additon to these there is PC Helpdesk, which is completely separate.
    (Note to Dave Stevens - I looked at the referenced sequence numbers,
    and that is where some of the problems occurred - the customer called
    in on a PC contract and selected the software support channel - con-
    tact me if you care for more detail.)  Hardware support is unchanged,
    although Diagnose Before Dispacth will have some (hopefully positive)
    impact on delivery of service.  The four levels are:
    
      Platinum - custom helpdesk, where a specific team is set up to handle
        only that customer; prime example is the MCI team.
    
      Gold (Mission Critical) - top level premium support, with committed 
        fast response, account management and other special services.
    
      Silver (SPSSMS, Response Management, etc) - a premium service with
        committed response times, account management and some other special
        services available; slower response commitments than Gold.
    
      Bronze (Basic) - the standard support contract, with telephone sup-
        port, patch availability, Field access; no response commitment, but
        a goal of contact attempt within two hours.
    
    Stated MCS policy for FY97 is to try to increase sales of Platinum,
    Gold and Silver, and maintain the Bronze base - although movement of
    customers from Bronze upward would tend to reduce that base somewhat.
    In conjunction with this policy, headcount concentrations will be
    around ensuring contract commitments for the higher level services.
    
    The CSC structure has been modified under the new organization that
    began implementation in May.  Currently, only the management levels
    have been affected.  Key management members of the new organization
    are:
    
      CSC Manager: Elizabeth Nolan
        Professional Services Delivery Manager: John Gunther
        Premium Services Delivery Manager: Vara Saunders
        Helpdesk Servcies Delivery Manager: Art Lowenburg
        Custom Helpdesk Delivery Services Manager: Ashook Perreira
        Business Information Manager: Dan Pratt
        Business Integration Manager: Pat Witkum
        Service Professional Resource Managers: Wanda Pechnik and Bob Ross
    
   The Services Delivery Managers are the interfaces into Product Manage-
   ment, and negotiate for delivery of contracted services.  The Service
   Professional Resource Managers oversee the Service Professional Groups,
   which is where the specialists and engineers who deliver the services
   reside.  The Service Professional Groups are aligned along product sets,
   and they support each other across product sets as necessary in cases
   of multiple product involvement.
    
   There is really only one standard escalation process - the Manager On
   Duty (MOD).  If there is a response problem, a quality issue, a customer
   satisfaction issue, etc, the appropriate approach at this time is to ask
   for the MOD.  Bear in mind, of course, that this is not the appropriate
   way to try to get service beyond that which is committed; the only
   appropriate way to get that is to either upgrade the contract or agree
   to pay for the additional service as a pay-per-call.
    
   Customers and employees can help make the operation more efficient by
   understanding to what they are entitled.  If a high level of responsive-
   ness is required, buy the appropriate level of support.  Set expecta-
   tions around what has been committed in the contract, not around what
   has been delivered in the good old days, or what had to be said to sell
   the contract.  (More anent that point: if I had to tell a potential
   customer that he/she would be getting services that aren't in the con-
   tract, I may sell that contract; however, the fallout of that customer
   learning that they aren't getting those services and complaining in
   notesfiles all over the Internet will probably cost Digital several
   other customer opportunities.)
    
   As for more CSC information, the last I knew, the Sales organization
   had a brochure for customers on the CSC and how to use it.  In addi-
   tion, there is a CSC internal web page with lots of information (I
   don't have the url handy at the moment - would one of the CSC partici-
   pants in this note please supply that in a subsequent entry?)  The
   CSC is also in the process of creating a communications campaign to
   help get information out to the rest of the organization, because we
   realize that there is both a serious lack of good information and a lot
   of misinformation in the system.
    
    Finally, as an aside to John Wisniewski: send me information about the
    specifc customer issue to which you referred - customer access number
    or sequence number - and I will try to find out what went wrong.
                                                 

    Dave Levy - Thank you for the pointer to Elizabeth Nolan's office. I
    did receive the assistance needed to address our customer's immediate
    concerns.  I also received some clarification on steps we can take to
    ensure the customer gets the service they are entitled to.  This
    escalation approach worked in my case where the issue had already been 
    addressed and unresolved by one MOD, but without a well communicated
    escalation process with names, numbers, and positions, I have no idea
    how many potentially valuable levels I've circumvented to get the
    issues resolved.  
    
    One issue which I believe is now resolved, was the lack of connectivity
    from the CSC process to the NIO Laptop repair depot process.  If we
    cannot prove to the customer that our processes are fixed, the customer
    is now prepared to pull totally out of the $2 Million PC Utility.  We 
    will be meeting with the customer accompanied by VP's for both parties
    on Tuesday, July 16th to determine the future of this agreement.  
    
    This is our immediate concern, but I would still hope to see some
    answers to the questions posed in .66, even though CSC personnel in
    leadership positions may not typically utilize this forum.   
    
    Regards,
    
    Dave 
    
    PS.  Reply back a few:  Not the same Dave Stevens, there were 3 of us in 
         the company at one point.  I think I'm the only one left?  
    
    

    re: 72
    
    When I was younger, (1983 - 1989) I was in Field Service and used the
    CSC constantly.  AS the old saying went...Send Sam.. he'll try anthing. 
    The folks at the CSC always answered my calls and saved my posterior on
    many occasions.  
    
    There were/are some great people out there who work hard and know
    "stuff" that nobody else would even think about.  I did have the
    opportunity to work out there in 1986 for a couple of weeks as a disk
    support engineer, and yes it's crazy.  
    
    My problem is that some unnamed (Bob, John and Co.) have effectively
    gutted the best damned field support and service organization in the
    world.  Our customers expected a high level of support and got it. 
    
    But, that was then and this is now !!!!
    
    

    re: .73 and URLs
    
    The URL for the America's Zone CSC is:
    
    	http://azcsc.cxo.dec.com
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    	dave
    

    Thank you John for the detailed answers to the .66 questions and for
    your additional insight.  I will give you a call to learn more.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dave Stevens

    From one who still works in the CSC but isn't exactly in the CSC
    anymore,  I have a couple of questions regarding new levels of
    service? 
    
    How is it going to matter about the Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze,
    etc., etc levels of service if the calls are still going to the same
    teams with the same number of worker bees?   Other than the fact that
    the gold and platinum level customers problems will be solved and they
    have someone to complain to when a "base team" isn't responding, as
    more people buy this level of service, what happens to the silver and
    bronze customers?  
    
    During my "burn and learn" years in one team in the center, I saw
    valuable customers get shoved to the bottom of the queue in favor of
    others, (The original MAIN customers, I think that is "Gold" now) and
    being a person who eventually got down to those customers, I felt and
    HEARD their pain, frustration, and watched them call in with less and
    less frequency, until they dropped out of sight.  Given the movement of
    people in this business, (I have talked to several contacts who moved
    two or three companies in the 7 years I put into the CSC) I wonder what
    kind of impact this frustration had when they moved up to a customer
    who could afford a higher level of service.  
    
    As far as DSNlink being a resource for people, it is good for yes-or-no
    questions, compatability questions, sending in complicated
    configurations, or the crash footprint of a  frequent-flying system,
    where voice exchange is already ongoing. It is more cumbersome than it
    is worth with many questions that require lots of input.  After the
    second need to ask for more information, I always put the 800 number in
    my replies and explained that this is something best handled in a
    mutual dialogue, even though some questions could be answered while
    dealing with a customer on voice while looking over a dsnlink call.  
    
    I feel the pain dramatically in both the CSC and in the field, when
    customers of mine are down and need assistance that I can't give
    without on site support or a resource from one of the CSC teams.  We
    are missing service windows for premium customers already, and if both
    the CSC and the Field are gutted again, I can only see this getting
    worse.  I am fully aware that it is neither the support specialist in
    the CSC or the specialist in the field who is at fault.  You all are
    overloaded.  Having been on the support at the csc level, I cringe to
    call in a MOD to get a resource, as I know I am going to get an
    overstressed, heavily overworked specialist who has put off another
    customer to deal with mine, (Thanks Cathy, Smiley and Rich, you know
    who you are)  and I also know that the customer they put off might be
    one of mine at a lower support level.  
    
    I don't have any answers, but I think merging the TBU people with the
    customer people only escalated the problems while saving some fictional
    amount of money.  
    
    I am interested in the service only per contract.  I left a team on
    the CSC a little over a year ago, and at that time, repeated requests
    for contract information so we would know when to draw the line were
    not forthcoming.  This bhad gone on for 7 years.  It is all fine and
    well to say there is a spelled out level of service, but if those in
    the trenches don't have that information and have a panicked, irate,
    confused, and frustrated customer on the phone, drawing a line that is
    nonexistant and may or may not be backed up by a manager is difficult,
    to say the least.
    
    meg

    Ask support specialists when was the last time you had
    "official"training (not the 30 minutes over lunch time)?
    
    Or who's the next technical elevation tier a support specialist can
    turn to besides (unorganized, inofficial) notes conferences?
    
    Or the last time a support specialist had dedicated time to leanr by
    hands on experience (e.g. installing a product or doing system
    management tasks or do some programming examples)?
    
    And for sure...on the paper it all looks platin and gold.
    
    Guenther

    .66 Dave, I'm not trying to beat you up, really ;-)
    
    Something caught me eye though regarding the customer waiting 4 hours
    for a call back only to be told "you don't have an agreement".
    
    If the customer REALLY had an agreement and it wasn't reflected in
    the CSC's database, whose responsibility was it to get the agreement
    shown?  As someone else pointed out, the good old days are gone.
    The CSCs used to "give away" a lot of support because we were told
    to take the customer at their word if they said they had a support
    agreement.....guess what...lots of customers fib!!  Then the customers
    who had valid HW/SW maintenance agreements sat languishing in the
    queues because specialists were tied up supporting someone who 
    wasn't entitled to the support.
    
    If the customer DIDN'T have an agreement, the he/she wasn't entitled
    to ANY support, pure and simple.
    
    I'm now with DEC-SALE and we're running into issues similar to those
    pointed out by Meg, i.e. for all the different levels of support,
    especially the high-ticket offerings, do we REALLY have enough bodies
    to deliver the level of service if it gets sold?  I get asked daily
    to help calculate the uplift for a 2 hr response on a HW agreement
    or a warranty uplift.  I will assist the sales rep or re-seller, but
    I now also suggest that they contact the local MCS group who will
    be asked to deliver that 2 hour response; if the bodies aren't there
    locally, there's no point taking the customer's money for something
    we KNOW won't be delivered.
    
    

    reply .80
    
    Feedback from the CSC was that the customer had been rerouted from the
    PC Hardware support group to a software support group which supported 
    products the customer did not have coverage for.  I had worked with an
    MOD (manager on duty) prior to this event to edit the registration 
    information so this type of scenario would not happen, but it still
    did. 
    
    The problem seems to be in getting the right information to all the
    right people, in all the right databases, to ensure the customer gets
    what they are paying for.  Once that's done, you just have to hope
    that everyone in the supply chain reads the info and makes the right
    choices along the way.  
    
    To answer your question... I believe everyone who is involved in our 
    overall customer support system, owns a piece of the responsibility to 
    maintain the integrity of the processes and the information.  
    
Regards,
    
    Dave

    re:.80
    
    Glad to see someone following the defined "process" for quoting 2hr
    response uplifts.......  It seldom happens and those field engineers
    usually get "stuck" with the ball and the UM's have nowhere to turn.
    
    Who quoted it?  says the UM.  Don't know! says the MCS Sales Rep.  The
    cancel it!!! says the UM.........
    
    It also SELDOM happens that way but should..... NO-One should be
    quoting two hour response except an MCS sales rep with the approval of
    either the geographically correct Bid Win Team, and/or the Service
    Delivery Unit Manager or Business Manager......
    
    BTW, from what I understand, the CSC has NOW, FINALLY gone to Line Item
    Entitlement.  What does that mean?  They now have direct access to the
    7 SMART systems throughout the US (sorry, only the US so far) and can
    validate a service agreement when logging the call.  The customer
    shouldn't have to wait four hours for a callback only to be told they
    don't have a contract......  The snail really IS moving......  it's
    just that it's still January, really cold, and it can't seem to move
    any faster......8*)....
    
    Just mine....
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

    JP,
    
    A good percentage of DEC-SALE's calls are now from re-sellers, ATDs,
    VARs etc.  They are aware of the 2 hr response uplift; evidently
    MCS has not relayed the message that they are not to be quoting it
    on a routine basis.  And, for every re-seller who calls us, there is
    probably 10 who don't.......
    
    I'll make the rest of my team aware of the process you outlined;
    I was stressing they check because I simply didn't believe we had
    the folks to deliver it.  I don't recall us getting any official
    memo stating just who WAS allowed to quote the uplift.
    
    Regards,
    
    Karen
    

    Customer here in San Francisco, with service contract of $160-200K per
    year said he called and got a recording.  " You have a 15 minute wait
    at this time."  His question is, "Will digital survive?"
    
    Dave
    

    re .80
    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
    

Dave:

> His question is, "Will digital survive?"

  Where have I heard that theme before? :-(

                                             Atlant

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     16-Jul-1996 01:58pm MDT
                                        From:     Linda Anderson@cxo
                                                  ANDERSON.LINDA
                                        Dept:     
                                        Tel No:   592-5213

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _PENUTS::STEVENS )

CC:  Remote Addressee                     ( Linda Anderson @CXO )
CC:  Remote Addressee                     ( Dan Pratt @CXO )

Subject: "I" CSC Contact List                                        

                        Customer Support Center Contacts
                                  July 08, 1996
     
                                  CSC Director
     
                                 Elizabeth Nolan
                                  DTN 592-7190
                                  719-592-7190
     
     
     
                             Operations Integration
     
     For New Product Planning,		Pat Witkum @SHR
     Quality Management, or Delivery    DTN 237-7570
     Models and Processes		508-841-7570
     
     New Product Plng. Open Systems	Steven Frank @CXO	592-5547
     New Product Plng. Client/Server	Ron Mills @SHR		237-7219
     Quality Manager			Joe Dougherty @CHO	336-2257
     Operations Integration/Process	Connie Philips @SHR	237-7594
     Operations Int./Infrastructure	Terry Roberts @CXO	592-5475
     Call Handling/Operations		Chuck Wilson @CXO	592-4874
     Technical Consultation		Sean Bowen @SHR		237-7457
     
     
     
                               Business Integration
     
     For Territory relationships,	Dan Pratt @CXO
     Business Planning, Business	DTN 592-4750
     Controls or new business		719-592-4750
     coordination
     
     Business Controls                  Larry Gerrity @ALF	343-1101
     Business Controls			Debbie Acker @ALF	343-1302
     Business Information Mgr.          Chuck Wilson (Acting)   592-4874
     Business Info. & Reporting		Ken Lafreniere @CXO	592-4360
     Business Info. & Reporting		Dave Doom @CXO		592-4195
     CSC Comm. & Proj. Consulting	Linda Anderson @CXO	592-5213
     Revenue Opportunity Programs	Art Bartlett @SHR	237-7375
     Revenue Opportunity Programs	Scott Steidle @ALF	343-1731
     
     
     
     
     
                                 Business Issues
     
          Business               Service Delivery     Operations Manager(s)
                                      Manager
     
     Professional Support Svcs.
     and Warranty
     Basic HPS/SPS,              John T. Gunther @SHR Sheela Damle @CXO
     Off-Site Service            508-448-6986         DTN 592-5042
     Issues or Warranty Issues			      719-592-5042
     Digital Internal Support
     						      Gay Keilty @ALF
     						      DTN 343-1682
            					      770-343-1682
     
     						      Warranty Program 
                                                      Manager
                                                      
     						      Cynthia Thomiszer @ALF
     						      343-0310
     
                                 Service Delivery     Ops. Manager(s)
                                 Manager
     						      
     Premium Support Services
     and Dedicated Cust. Svcs.
     Uplifted, Pro-active or     Vara Saunders @CXO   Kim Templin @CXO
     Dedicated Customer          DTN 592-4451         DTN 592-5590
     Issues                      719-592-4451	      719-592-5590
     						      
     Customized Support and
     Customer Out Task Svcs.
     Custom Help Desks,          Ashok Pereira @SHR   Peggy Higginbottom @SHR
     Remote System Management,   DTN 237-70999        DTN 237-7756
     Outsourcing, Consulting     508-841-7099	      508-841-7756
     
     Helpdesk Pro
     Helpdesk - Where we are     Art Lowenberg @CXO   Al Senzamici @CXO
     the second level support    DTN 592-4112	      DTN 592-7809
     for a customer helpdesk     719-592-4112         719-592-7809
     
                                   People Issues
     
     Service Professionals -                          Wanda Pechnik @CXO
     Questions or concerns directly related           DTN 592-4598
     to a CSC Employee or for information             719-592-4598
     regarding possible technical opportunities            or
     contact one of the Service Professional	      Bob Ross @ALF 
     Resource Managers				      DTN 343-1804
     						      770-343-1804
     Service Professional 
     Managers and
     team alignment:		      Wanda Pechnik Direct Reports
     
     CSC Training Project Mgr.:	      Sue Clavin @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4674
     				      719-592-4674
     				      
     Service Professional Mgrs.:      Pat Proctor @CXO
                                      DTN 592-5645
     				      719-592-5645
     				      - INTDRV
     				      - Open VMS System Management C
     				      - Electronic Access
     				      - Security
     
     				      Mark Haynes @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4457
     				      719-592-4457
     				      - Open VMS System Management B
     				      - Value Added Services Team
     				      - Printing/Electronic Publishing
     				      - VIMS
     
     				      John Stopper @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5426
     				      719-592-5426
     				      - Mission Critical
     
     				      Dee Smith @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5595
     				      719-592-5595
     				      - MCI
     				      - AT&T
     				      - Bellcore
     
     				      Tony Strickhouser @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4901
     				      719-592-4901    
     				      - Language Support Team
     				      - Windows NT
     
     				      Vince Gaydos @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5570
     				      719-592-5570
     				      - Call Management Group
     				      - Customer Quality Desk
     				      - Customer Assistance Desk
     
     				      Steve Israel @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5465
     				      719-592-5465
     				      - Call Management Group
     				      - Call Management Group (Afterhours)
     				      - Masterchamp
     
     				      Lee Pietraallo @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4932
     				      719-592-4932
     				      - Multivendor Hardware Support
     				      - MVHS Afterhours
     				      - Information Center
     
     				      Ron Graves @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4203
     				      719-592-4203
     				      - Storage Works
     				        Prime Time Software Storage Team
     				        Afterhours Software Storage Team
     				        Prime Time Hardware Storage Team
     				        Afterhours Hardware Storage Team
     				      - Optical Storage
     				      - Multivendor Hardware Support
     				      - MVHS Afterhours
     				      - Afterhours Open VMS
     
     				      Anne Mabry @CXO
     				      DTN 592-4428
     				      719-592-4428
     				      - Customized Helpdesk
     				        Compaq
     				        Dow Chemical
     				        Union Carbide
     
     				      Bob Ross Direct Reports
     
                                      John Zinn @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5392
     				      719-592-5392
     				      - Interconn
     				      - Internet
     				      - Open Systems Networks
     				      - Electronic Data Interchange
     
     				      Phil Benning @CXO
     				      DTN 592-5501
     				      719-592-5501
     				      - Open VMS Networks
     				      - Open VMS Networks/Afterhours
     
                                      Pernell Hamlin @ALF
     				      DTN 343-1298
     				      770-343-1298
     				      - UNIX Operating Systems
     				      - Electronic Publishing
     				      - Open VMS
     				      - Printing
     
                                      Valerie Moore @ALF
     				      DTN 343-1369
     				      770-343-1369
     				      - Desktop-A
     				      - Desktop-B
     				      - Desktop Afterhours
     				      - Bellsouth
     
     				      Lisa Tousek @ALF
     				      DTN 343-1370
     				      770-343-1370
     				      - Office
     				      - Workstation for VMS
     				      - DecWindows
     				      - Object Broker
     				      - Office System Applications
     				      - Real Time Expertise Center
     
     				      Sandy Cooper @ALF
     				      DTN 343-1847
     				      770-343-1847
     				      - Call Management Group
     
     				      Gene Boudreau @ALF
     				      DTN 343-2262
     				      770-343-1847
     				      - Desktop Services
     				      - Desktop Afterhours
     				      - Open VMS System Management A
     				      - LAN Management Support
     
     				      Frank Traviglia @SHR 
     				      DTN 237-6932
     				      508-841-6932
     				      - Customized Helpdesk
     				      - Traditional
     
     

re: .-1 & .-2,

Although I don't blame you for getting permissions, but that memo is very wide
spreed in MCS. Also, you will find the same basic org chart at:

http://azcsc.cxo.dec.com/organization/

The policy is specific - explicit permission is required.  It was received,
but it was my obligation as moderator to verify it.

					Steve

    I too have contacted 1-800-354-9000 and have been put on hold. I would
    not have mind the 22 minute wait time as someone else had stated. I
    hung the phone up 1 hour and 15 minutes later. Let me also state I
    was on hold not to log a call, but to get a return call from the 
    Alpha Support Group. My next call was to the MOD and she got me a 
    return call in less than 5 minutes. I do thank her for her efforts.
    My concern is not with the support group but a customer watching me
    on hold with the same number and state they are glad "it's not just
    them".
    
    I get complaints from my customers about the hold times. At times 
    they will page me and I will log the call myself and provide service.
    That makes life easier for the customer, CSC, and myself.
    
    Hold times upset customers, I do agree, but improperly logged 
    service requests really raises they call to the D.O.C manager. Calls
    are being routed to the wrong area. (Washington, N.C. instead of
    Washington. D.C.) Misspelled contact/company names (Fanny May instead
    of Fannie Mae) (Stephinnee instead of Steven). I know time is 
    important when logging that service call, but I think taking time
    to verify contact name and number are the two most important
    pieces of information when logging that call.  If I call a 
    contact and I find out he/she passed away six months ago, that
    is not the way to start a professional conversation with a customer
    site.
    
    I realize the SMART/CHAMP databases aren't in the best of shape and
    upper management (some of you may have remembered them as Reginal
    Management..now they are called Vice Presidents) for 17 years have
    told us that they will improve the databases. I asked a Reginal VP
    in MCS four months ago is anyone looking into customer concerns 
    about the CSC and call handling and said he didn't know anything 
    about problems within the CSC and will have someone on his staff to
    look into it. And time goes on......
    
    
    I know it's a how-many-service-calls-can-u-log-per-day type of job.
    And I know the CMC, like MCS is terribly understaffed, but remember,
    you are the first person a customer with a concern is making contact
    with Digital Equipment Corporation and you start to inforce we are
    "best in class" when it comes to service.
    
    With the CMC my only "doing my job" refers to standby. Is there any
    "tool" inplace to state ..this person was the "last" person to be 
    called out.. who's next??.. I have closed my lars sighned out and
    may have just began snoring when my pager goes off again! I ask
    why am I being paged, and the standard answer is "aren't you on
    standby??" I answer yes and then ask "Isn't there someone else 
    on standby?" They say no. It's not the correct answer in my case
    because I imput our standby list. I have to ask to "focus" to look
    at the standby list. They say you and a desktop engineer are on
    standby. I ask them to hit the return key and they say "Oh.. I didn't
    know there was a page two?". Wouldn't printing a hard copy eliminate
    this? There is a reason why I get the bulk of the standby calls,
    My last name begins with "A". I have left on the standby list because
    of weekend coverage, taken vacation, turned off my pager and at
    three o'clock Thursday morning my phone rang, guess who?? asking me
    why am I not answering my pager? After I hung up (no, I did not 
    answer that question), the After Hour Manager called and asked me
    the same question. DUH?, I said what's my status?? Signed out on
    vacation and only covering weekend standby.. His reply was I'm
    sorry. In this case, wouldn't reading the engineer status would
    have saved us all aggrivation and would have stopped a complaint
    by the customer because there two hour response wasn't met? 
    
    In closing.. we need to not only think about ourselves while we
    are at work, but think about what the other person's doing before
    we start making excuses for problems that are within our control
    and attempt to work the problems that are just out of reach..
    Stretching doesn't always hurt......

Memo from the CSC Director in response to questions posed in reply .66:
    
    ( Posted with the permission of the CSC Director, Elizabeth Nolan )

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Doc. No:  009029
                                        Date:     19-Jul-1996 01:15pm MDT
                                        From:     Elizabeth Nolan@Cxo
                                                  NOLAN.ELIZABETH
                                        Dept:     
                                        Tel No:   (719) 592-7190

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _Penuts::Stevens )


Subject: FWD: (I) CSC Communication                                  

    Thanks for bringing your concerns to me.  This memo went to all CSC 
    employees and includes responses to some of the issues you raised.
    
    Best regards,
    
    Elizabeth




                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     18-Jul-1996 01:01pm MDT
                                        From:     Elizabeth Nolan@Cxo           
                                                  NOLAN.ELIZABETH
                                        Dept:     
                                        Tel No:   (719) 592-7190

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _Penuts::Stevens )


Subject: (I) CSC Communication                                       

     For any large organization, it is a big challenge to maintain 
     effective, multi-level communications. The CSC Management Team strives 
     to provide accurate and timely communications, however, we are far from 
     perfect at it.
     
     A big source of our information about the employee's communications 
     needs is direct face to face meetings and conversations. There are also 
     other means, such as Notes files and e-mail, that help us understand 
     what is needed as far as direction, information, etc. Our real desire 
     is to reach a level of employee engagement that will make 
     communications a tool rather than a goal. What that means is that each 
     of you plays an important part in the creation of a business plan as 
     well as as in its implementation.
     
     I am very proud of the work we have done in re-engineering the CSC so 
     that the right balance could be achieved in focusing on the employees, 
     customers and, ultimately, shareholders (or the "real" owners) of the 
     corporation. But I also share your collective impatience about the 
     speed of implementing all the necessary changes that will help restore 
     the faith of our customers and team members in our ability to be truly 
     "best in class".
     
     There are some obvious realities of our current financial situation 
     that don't allow us to have unlimited resources. There are, however, 
     tremendous resources we have at our disposal, including the investment 
     funds provided by the corporation, to address what we well understand 
     as issues. We are also very much in tune with the services marketplace, 
     the level of support provided by our competitors, and the customer 
     needs and expectations. The CSC business strategy developed by our team 
     focuses on:
     
     - Creating higher value-added, premium support services which will 
       better solve the support challenges of our customers while allowing 
       us to charge appropriately for the unmatched level of support;
     
     - Cleaning up our obligation base so that we service the customers 
       based on what we sold them without the burden of the "unentitled" 
       customers. (Based on our conservative estimates, there are somewhere 
       around 20,000 calls taken by the US centers each year that should 
       either be charged for or refused);
     
     - Provide clear direction about the service level differentiation and 
       specific customer commitments to those who sell them as well as to 
       those who deliver;
     
     - Managing quality at every step of the service request placed by any 
       customer needing support from the center. We are re-engineering our 
       service delivery processes to include "quality timers" to alert 
       management to each and every obligation not being met;
     
     - Working to fully integrate our customer support with our field 
       partners, ranging from marketing, sales/quoting/expectation setting, 
       all the way to joint management of service fulfillment;
     
     - Developing more effective collaboration with our Engineering partners 
       within and outside of Digital to ensure that the customer problems 
       are resolved in a more timely manner as well as to improve the 
       quality of the products sold to them;
     
     
     We have programs in place and people/teams responsible for their 
     implementation. We know that this journey will take a while and we need 
     all of you to work with us. The above list is not all inclusive. We 
     have a lot more initiatives and goals aimed at building a more 
     successful CSC organization.
     
     In the meantime, please help us provide better communications to you 
     and your many team members, customers and partners. Tell us what you 
     need. Utilize the Web sites, e-mail, tapes, presentations, etc. we 
     produce.
     
     Please remember, you are a part of the solution. We have a lot to be 
     proud of. There are customers who criticize our support. We listen to 
     their concerns with great diligence. We must improve the quality of our 
     performance. We also must re-negotiate the expectations many of our 
     customers have of what they buy from us. For every one there must be an 
     answer. We are hoping that the key to our profitability is to design 
     delivery processes that SELL THE VALUE appropriately. 
     
     Thank you for taking the time to read this message. 
     
     Based on the Notes file discussions, we have put together a list of 
     questions with appropriate responses. We hope they will help resume 
     dialog about more clarification and communications we need to provide 
     to each and every one of you on this team to make you successful in 
     meeting your customers needs.
     
     Best regards,
     
     
     
     Elizabeth and the CSC Management Team
     
     
     

     
     
     1.	 Who's Who in the CSC (today):
     
     	 We have two specific tools to assist you with that question.  We 
         have a detailed organization chart and a CSC Contact List which has 
         all individuals at a staff level, their roles and responsibilities, 
         and their DTN and electronic mail address.  I will send the CSC 
         Contact List to you this week.
     
     	 The Organization Chart and Structure can be found in the WEB Page 
         at:
     
      	 http://azcsc.cxo.dec.com/
     
     
     	 Please Note:  We are in the process of re-structuring and updating 
         our CSC Web page to be much more complete and informative.  Updates 
         should begin within the next two to three weeks.
     
     2.	 How is your organization structured?:
     
     	 As noted above, this information can be found in the CSC Web Page.  
         Basically, we have a  structure defined by work.  We have separate 
         business models for the types of customer we support - such as 
         Premium Services, Basic, Helpdesk, etc.  We have a function for 
         management of our Service Professionals and we have supporting 
         functions of Operations Integration and Business Integration.  
     
     3.	 How do the various groups within your organization support one 
         another?:
     
     	 Our Operations Integration and Business Integration functions are 
         responsible to ensure the Business Models have the support and 
         infrastructure they need in order to meet customer obligation.  
         This would include everything from capital to business processes 
         and documentation, to tools, etc.  From a more direct level, in 
         terms of one product team supporting another, there are processes 
         in place to ensure that happens.
     
     4.	 What Service do you offer?:
     
     	 Remote Support for:
     
     	 Warranty
     	 Supplemental Services
     	 Basic Software
     	 - SSMS, RM, DECsupport
     	 - Silver
     	 Mission Critical
     	 - Gold
     	 - Platinum
     	 Diagnose Before Dispatch
     	 RSM, SHC, LMS, AM
     	 Event Management
     	 Internal Support
     	 Information Center Services
     	 Support Tools
     	 Per Event and Revenue Enhancement
     	 Customized Variants
     
     	 Specific PC Utility related services would be handled out of MDS 
         (Multivendor Desktop Services) which is no longer a part of the 
         CSC.  For more information regarding MDS, please contact Iain 
         Voller in Atlanta at DTN: 343-1126.
     
     5.	 How can customers and employees make efficient use of your 
         services?:
     
     	 When calling in to the CSC, please have your system serial number 
         or access number readily available.  This information is used to 
         bring up the "customer record" which will indicate type of products 
         purchased by, and service obligation information for the customers.  
         Providing this information will improve timeliness in the process 
         of having their service request logged.  We would also ask that 
         they provide a clear statement of the problem at the time the call 
         is logged.  This will assist us in providing the customer with the 
         correct technical resource in a timely manner.
     
     6.	 What level of service should customers and employees expect 
         (today)?:
     
     	 We provide the customer with the level of service they have 
         purchased. 
     
     7.	 What is the standard escalation process - giving names, titles & 
         time frames?:
     
     	 We have several types of escalations and processes for each.  
         Examples of types of escalations include:  Management, Technical, 
         Performance, Engineering, On-Site.  If educating a customer on how 
         to invoke an escalation or for customer dissatisfaction issues, 
         please contact the CSC and ask to speak to the MOD (Manager on 
         Duty).
     
     8.	 Where can employees find current CSC reference/support 
         documentation?  For example:  Where can I find a welcome kit with 
         instructions for new customers?:
     
     	 New customer welcome kits are generated automatically upon 
         registering a customer for service.  Our MCS Sales channels have 
         many references for the CSC.
     

    Elizabeth:
    
    Thanks for the information.  The only additional question that I would
    like to ask is, based on information provided in the Digital US Systems
    and Services prices book dtd 7/1/96, page 7.24....
    
    Premium Support Services at a Glance indicates that Basic remedial
    maintenance provides for 24X7 2 hr response.  Additional Gold & Silver
    details are included.  What are the chances of a customer, TODAY,
    getting a callback in two hours based on the information in this notes
    file regarding wait times, length of queues, etc.,?  I have had several
    calls this week alone (3 already and it's only Tuesday) from customers
    that tagged their call and problem as "critical" and received a call
    back in 3 1/2 hours.  When they asked about this, the CSC told them
    that if they wanted a speedier turnaround, they needed to purchase the
    Silver or Gold support.  They referred them to their local office for
    additional information.   
    
    At least you know that the CSC is doing what their suppose to be doing
    with upsell opportunities; however, if the customer had received his
    callback in the "committed" (in quotes cozz I really don't know what
    that word means anymore) 2 hours, he wouldn't have to subscribe to the
    additional $940/mo for his Digital Unix Alpha box he's paying about
    $100/mo for maintenance on.
    
    I look forward to your speedy response in this regards.....  This isn't
    the 1st customer issue I've had around this service.
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

    Ref .92:
    
    JPS, do you have some details on the customers, like access numbers
    (customer ID's) or sequence/log numbers?  I'll look them up and see
    what occurred.  Actually, on a Bronze/Basic contract, there is a 2 hr
    GOAL for attempting the customer.  The CSC is hitting that attempt goal
    about 90% of the time - however, the 2 hr CONTACT rate is about 75%. 
    This is primarily due to customers placing calls, then not being
    available when the callback occurs (although some of the non-contacts
    are due to the CSC returning the call outside the prime time window for
    that customer's time zone.)  The real problem occurs when the customer
    is not available on that first attempt - some teams are so backed up
    that the call then falls down in the queue and is not attempted again
    for a day or two (sometimes longer for a call that has been flagged as
    very low - S3 - priority.)  The queueing algorithm is being examined to
    try to minimize this effect.
    
    Again, if you can get me some details on the customers you referenced,
    I'll see what happened.

    	Autopage attempts a retry every 15 minutes for CSC engineers, it
    would makes sense to keep trying the customer every 15 minutes as well.
    Not being able to answer the call (probably because you are working
    your problem that precipitated the call) and then going to the bottom of the
    queue and getting a callback days later is unacceptable from a customer
    satisfaction standpoint.
    
    	There are auto-dialers that will call a list of phone numbers, when
    you answer you get a nice message, go on hold, then an ACD connects you
    with the correct person.  Perhaps something like this would be one way
    to assist without generating more expense.
    
    	BTW, I have to use the CSC for problems from time-to-time.  Back in
    the days of large computer rooms I'd be there working the problem and
    then set off a game of phone-tag.   I also haven't noted a real drop in
    service levels in recent years, but of course I know how to work the
    system.  Maybe education in letting the customer know how to get ahold
    the MOD for *those* situations a good idea, and using DSNlink probably
    the best solution for normal problems.     

    Well, let's be realistic about this.  I, too, have tried to call up the
    PC Hotline (like a good digit, I bought a Digital Starion PC) and ended
    up waiting 45 minutes before I decided to hang up.  Fortunately, I
    found and fixed the problem myself while I was waiting, so it was not
    that much of an issue, but...
    
    We no longer have the number of people we need to offer the level of
    service that our customers are actually paying for, and all the com-
    plaining here has probably not solved the problem.  As long as SOP is:
    bad quarter? layoff another couple thousand, or good quarter? give SLT
    members another 6-digit bonus; you can forget making any significant
    changes that will improve customer satisfaction.
    
    Whereas the lower layers of management may be interested in providing
    better service, and are frustrated in their efforts; upper management
    is only concerned with how investors feel about Digital.  For upper
    management "improving customer satisfaction" is something that has to
    be *said*, not something that has to be invested in.  Unless customer
    satisfaction can be achieved coincidentally while making the investors
    happy, it will never happen.
    
    The only way to really change this is to have upper management that is
    willing to place customer, and employee, satisfaction above that of the
    investors.  Until that happens, we will play the numbers game until
    this company has been right-sized to the wrong size, and the customers 
    get so frustrated they go somewhere else.
    
    But, I know this is preaching to the choir on the one hand, and falling
    on deaf ears on the other, so I'll quit now.
    
    Rob

    I heard that the "starion support line" is not part of digital
    anyway....but is contracted out to an outside co.?
    
    Bad rumour or true?

>    
>    But, I know this is preaching to the choir on the one hand, and falling
>    on deaf ears on the other, so I'll quit now.
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
				That's a bit drastic, isn't it :-)???

-Joe

    Contracted out, or not, I bought a Digital product, the service for it
    is still Digital's responsibility, the poor quality of the service is
    detremental to Digital's image, Digital has to fix it.  Or, suffer the
    consequences of poor quality service, ie poor customer satisfaction and
    lost business.
    
    Whereas we may be able to determine how many customers cancel their
    support contracts, we probably have no way of knowing how many
    customers never considered Digital because of the bad reports they'd
    heard about our service.  Since it's something that we don't really
    see, it's easy to forget about it when looking at this quarter's bottom
    line, even though it will have a dramatic effect on next quarter's.
    
    In a world of faster, and faster, processors and open systems software,
    the only real differentiating factor is customer service.  Whereas the
    odd bell, or whistle, may impress the technical community, the computer
    market is made up of a lot of non-technical people.  They aren't as con-
    cerned about megaflops, as they are about *not* spending megabucks for
    help *when* they need it.
    
    I also doubt that a customer who spends >20 minutes waiting for help
    will be very interested to know about MCS's mission to be the best
    service provider in the world.  But, then again, a mission statement is
    not about doing business, it's about warm fuzzies.
    
    Rob

    Re: .96
    
    It is true that a large part of the STARION Offsite support has been
    contracted out to another vendor. This is in line with the PCBU and MCS
    direction to withdraw from the retail market.
    
    It is also true that in the past we have experienced poor response
    times on this product support. We have made significant progress in
    improving the response and are currently taking approximately 900
    calls/day with an Average Speed of Answer (telephone wait time) of
    about 8 minutes (and improving). We have a goal to answer 95% of all
    STARION calls in less than 5 minutes, which is in line with industry
    standards for comparable products in the retail space.
    
    Our responsiveness on other PC products is significantly higher, ASA
    typically less than a minute. 
    
    Iain
    MDS Operations

>>    your problem that precipitated the call) and then going to the bottom of the
>>    queue and getting a callback days later is unacceptable from a customer
>>    satisfaction standpoint.
    
    Having a queue *at all* is bad for customer satisfaction. There's always
    someone at the back. Your idea for repeat dialling customers until you
    get through is great - for that particular customer - but it won't help
    the others who haven't yet worked their way up the queue for their first 
    call. It would just mean a different customer complains.
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

    
       I also have purchased a Starion PC (In hindsite now, I should have
    gone with Gateway).  Three weeks ago my 15inch monitor broke. I looked
    up my warranty info, great 1year "ON-SITE" service. I have had the
    machine 8 months.  My wife offered to call for service;
    
       1st call - 8 minutes   talked to the rep. no problem a new terminal
    will be sent to your house. I the customer will install the new
    terminal in place of the old.  I the customer will repackage the old
    terminal and return to digital.
    
                                 2 weeks later
    2nd call - 22 minutes   talked to rep         rep will call back,
    needed to check out a few things.
    
                         2 days later NO CALL!
    
    3rd call - 20 minutes    talked to rep     rep will call back, needed
    to check out a few things.
    
                          SAME DAY! a return call
    
    IT seems that there is a record of all transactions from the start,
    nobody bother to ship the terminal to us.  "We will send a terminal out
    right away,  I will mark urgent on the invoice.  Your terminal will
    arrive either Tues 7/23 or wed 7/24.
    
          7/23-------------no terminal
    
          7/24-------------no terminal
    
          7/25------------- all I can do is hope
    
    
        Ask me, "Why would I want to buy another digital product again?
    
        Ask me, "would you recommend buying a Digital product to a friend?"
    
              Don and Sue     still waiting for digital to honor thier
    contract.
    
    

This reminds me of David Stone telling the story of buying a Digital PC 
for his father-in-law.  David says "Hey, I'm pretty smart and I know about
computers.  I'll set it up for him."  David ends up calling the VP of MCS 
to get someone to help me get the PC working after many hours spent over 
many days.  David's advice to Digital software engineers was don't buy a 
Digital PC for your personal use.

Jim

    
    
    When Stone bought his F-in-L the DECpc our FIS model was
    probably alot different than what it is today.  My guess
    is that he bought an early Tandy business class machine
    with no OS installed.  This is a far different scenario
    than today with all of our systems FISed simliar to
    a retail product, ready to run righjt out of the box.  
    What we did five years ago was the norm in the commercial 
    PC market.  The Retail PC market was just starting to boon
    then, but we didn't enter untill Sept 1994.
    
    just the fax
    
    gb
    
     
    just starting to boom and life changed quickly. 

    re: .93
    
    Sorry it took so long to get back with a reply.  Been out putting more
    miles on MY car for Digital....
    
    The customer was Roper Hospital, Access # 913510; sorry, don't have a
    log #.  I'm sure there was SOME exaggeration for clarity on the
    customer's part, but my biggest issue is not necessarily the wait, but
    the PRICE of the NEW service for a itsy-bitsy little box.  
    
    Thanks for asking....
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

    re: bad Starion support
    
    Bought a new Starion 933 in March, experienced file corruptions and
    problems over the weekend that lead to hard disk failure.  Called
    800 service number Monday night - somewhat confused tech support
    rep said it was a software problem, tried to lead me through some
    diagnostics (all whidh indicated problems), said the solution is to
    restore all the software on the hard drive (yes, I had already
    backed up), I said this would not work if the disk was bad, but she
    persisted that that was the solution, so I went ahead with the 
    restore, and she said goodbye before I got 10% thru the restore.
    Well as expected, the restoree didn't work, got lots of verify 
    errors, and no working system.  Recalled 800 line, gave them
    my previous call/service #, and they could not use it because
    the service call numbers were not entered into their database
    on a timely manner, and had to run though the entire scenario
    again with another rep.  He finally admitted I had a bad disk,
    and that someone would call me in 24-48 hours to schedule a
    disk replacement call.
    
    4 days later - still no call.
    
    Service ?????? Shame on us!!!!
    
    Mark
    

    Ref .92/.104
    
    I looked up the customer situation - figured I'd make a general reply,
    so the rest of of y'all would see what happened.  I checked the
    customer calls for this access # for the period 1 Jun - 24 Jul and
    found the customer had placed three calls in that timeframe.  Two of
    the calls (in Jun) were contacted in 7 and 27 min respectively (by one
    of my teams - call me flabbergasted!) and the calls were closed on
    initial contact.  The third call, the one to which the notes referred,
    was attempted by the DUNIX opsys team within 5 min of it being logged,
    but the customer was unavailable (JPS, you may want to verify that a
    message was left, since the specialists are instructed to do so.)  Then
    the problem I mentioned in .93 occurred - the call dropped down below
    the unattempted critical calls and didn't come up for attempt again
    until well after the normal prime time for an Eastern Time Zone
    customer, so it wasn't attempted again until the next morning.  The
    customer may also have been unhappy with the response, in that they
    were told they may have purchased some unnecessary equipment.
    
    You may wonder why it took so long for a "critical" call to come back
    up to the top of the queue.  Aside from the standard answers - premium
    contract customers automatically go higher in the queue, we're
    shorthanded, etc - there is an even more interesting element also at
    work.  Many customers have figured out our queueing formula and declare
    their calls critical (current practice allows the customer to decide
    whether a call meets the criteria).  As a result, slightly over 25% of
    all SW calls coming into the CSC are flagged critical - a few years
    ago, when our response times were better, the rate was less than 10%. 
    Who says our customers aren't smart?

    Maybe you need a "highest" priority for "calls in progress", ones where
    the callback has not yet been successful?
    
    r
    

<    Maybe you need a "highest" priority for "calls in progress", ones where
<    the callback has not yet been successful?
    
Once the callback is successful, it is pulled from the queue.  The only calls
*in* the queue are ones where there has been no callback, or where 
no callback was successful.

       Carol    

    There  is another side-effect of too few indians for a few too many
    calls.  When you have 300+ call/day coming into a group of 30-40 people
    it only sounds like 10 calls a day, and in 1989 the majority of the
    calls could be covered in less than 45 minutes.  
    
    Sweep forward to a couple of ugly software implimentations with a lot
    of different patches for different issues, read several multiprotocol
    routers, the popularity of mcc, netview, hubwatch, gigaswitches coming
    out at the same time training gets cut to the bone, and suddenly the
    calls take 2-4 hours to even start getting a handle on, let alone
    solve.  Call volume and complexity went up and the work force also was
    cut at the same time.  Training became "burn and learn" at the
    customer's expense.  I know hard core workers whose call numbers went
    from 14-17 calls/day with solutions on the first contact, down to 7 or
    fewer calls/day with multiple calls required to even get close to a
    solution.  
    
    In this case, the queue grows, and grows rapidly.  The last year I
    worked on one particular team, I only saw the queue drop below 40 on
    the holiday week between Christmas and New years.  
    
    I will repeat what I said a couple of years ago.  Bob and VP's, Plane
    fares are fairly cheap right now, and you don't need to wear a suit. 
    the weather in CO is fairly pleasant, especially compared to NE this
    time of year, and the Olympics are on in Atlanta.  You really want to
    know what is going on and how the front line for your customers feel?
    
    Get into a pair of jeans, or at least business casual, and sit down
    with the people working the phones.  There is always a spare headset
    available in team areas.  While what you hear may not be what you want
    to, you will have an opportunity to get to know what it is our
    customers are dealing with and what we deal with to help them.  
    
    meg

    My starion 942 started making "wrrrrrring" sounds.  It's 3 months old. 
    Then it stopped making them, then started, then stopped.... sounded
    like little itty bitty jet engines starting and stopping...
    
    I guess it was the fan...
    
    Anyway, it finally crapped out... "System Battery is Dead.  Replace it
    and run set up"  "Realtime clock error.  Failure fixed disk 0"
    
    I called 1-800-554-3333 as the in package lit directed.  6:00 PM or so.
    6:20 PM or so, off hold and live with someone.  5 minutes later, he
    said he'd call in a "system battery dead" log.
    
    15 Minutes later, someone from atlanta called me to verify the address
    and phone number and give me a log number.  Said I should hear from
    someone locally on Monday to schedule an on site visit.
    
    So far, while I'm completely mystified by the idea of a "system battery
    dead" problem on a mother board in a 4 month old PC, Digital has
    exceeded my expectations.

    I guess that my record at the CSC in CXO3 still stands.  I worked in
    the HIGH SPEED PRINTER GROUP, and in 1992 or there abouts, I closed 899
    calls with no kick backs, in one quarter.  ~300 calls per month, 20
    days per month, gave me about 15 calls per day... some calls can be
    multiple contacts, and a band adjustment on a LP27 with an
    inexperienced engineer will take a minimum of two hours.  Some time you
    can overlap calls, and work multiple calls at a time.  That will drive
    you to drinking.
    
    Dave_TFSO_in_1994
    

    Hi,
    
    Re .110 and your 942 problem...I had, what sounds like, the same
    problem.  It sounds like the hard disk keeps powering up, then down. 
    It turned out to be a bad power supply.  If your symptoms are like
    mine, then tell them to bring a new power supply with them, or you'll
    end up waiting again.
    
    Rob - who now tells people that ask, "DON'T buy a Digital PC, they're
    expensive, and the service is lousy."  Pretty sad.

    
    
    Expect similar support from Gateway, Packard Bell, Dell, and other
    Tier-2 manufacturers.  No excuse... just fact of life.  Digital's
    current product support structure was not set up for this type
    of support and transitioning over to distributor based support and
    third-party service providers is not going smoothly.
    
    Life it changing fast and Digital cannot afford to support PCs like
    we did VAXes.
    
    gb
    

    Next chapter:
    
    So, today is the day I should have a Digit at my desk fixing my PC. 
    You know, the starion 942.  No one here.  I got a call from someone I
    THINK was tsfo'd, saying he's got my call and heard that I wanted him
    to bring a power supply (:-) along with the system battery.  Went on to 
    say he's ordering some parts
    and should be able to get here sometime this week. Tried to call him
    back, based on a number found in an old directory, but of course that 
    extention no longer exists.  He did not leave me a number on his
    message. 
    
    I remember this person.  Oh, did I mention that I've been selling 2-3
    million dollars of these services a year to some of our largest
    customers??  Yeah I remember him.  He is a VERY nice guy and absolutely
    competent.  I guess he works for someone we contract desktop service
    from.
    
    I don't know....  I don't want to bust any chops... but sheesh... I've
    got one year of next day on site I paid for,,
    
    
    

	Sent to me a few weeks back, not sure of origin, and I sure hope it 
    wasn't posted here yet (surely wasn't based on titles).
    
    	I still haven't figured out what that cup holder right below the
    first one is for....
    
    
    >>>>>>>
                                                            91 Lines

    Here are some more unbelievable computer stories. The sad thing is
    ...
    THEY ARE ALL TRUE !!!!

    So you think you're computer-illiterate?  Check out the following
    excerpts from a Wall Street Journal article by Jim Carlton --

    Compaq is considering changing the command "Press Any Key" to "Press
    Return Key" because of the flood of calls asking where the "Any" key
    is.

    AST technical support had a caller complaining that her mouse was
    hard to control with the dust cover on.  The cover turned out to be
    the plastic bag the mouse was packaged in.

    (MY FAVORITE) Another Compaq technician received a call from a man
    complaining that the system wouldn't read word processing files from
    his old diskettes.  After trouble- shooting for magnets and heat
    failed to diagnose the problem, it was found that the customer
    labeled the diskettes then rolled them into the typewriter to type
    the labels.
           
    Another AST customer was asked to send a copy of her defective
    diskettes.  A few days later a letter arrived from the customer
    along  with Xeroxed copies of the floppies.

    A Dell technician advised his customer to put his troubled floppy
    back in the drive and close the door.  The customer asked the tech
    to hold on, and was heard putting the phone down, getting up and
    crossing the room to close the door to his room.

    Another Dell customer called to say he couldn't get his computer to
    fax anything.  After 40 minutes of trouble-shooting, the technician
    discovered the man was trying to fax a piece of paper by holding it
    in front of the monitor screen and hitting the "send" key.

    Another Dell customer needed help setting up a new program, so a
    Dell tech suggested he go to the local Egghead.  "Yeah, I got me a
    couple of friends, "the customer replied.  When told Egghead was a
    software store, the man said, "Oh, I thought you meant for me to
    find a couple of geeks."

    Yet another Dell customer called to complain that his keyboard no
    longer worked.  He had cleaned it by filling up his tub with soap
    and water and soaking the keyboard for a day, then removing all the
    keys and washing them individually.

    A Dell technician received a call from a customer who was enraged
    because his computer had told him he was "bad and an invalid".  The
    tech explained that the computer's "bad command" and "invalid"
    responses shouldn't be taken personally.

    An exasperated caller to Dell Computer Tech Support couldn't get her
    new Dell Computer to turn on. After ensuring the computer was
    plugged in, the technician asked her what happened when she pushed
    the power button. Her response, "I pushed and pushed on this foot
    pedal and nothing happens." The "foot pedal" turned out to be the
    computer's mouse.

    Another customer called Compaq tech support to say her brand-new
    computer wouldn't work.  She said she unpacked the unit, plugged it
    in, and sat there for 20 minutes waiting for something to happen. 
    When asked what happened when she pressed the power switch, she
    asked "What power switch?"

    True story from a Novell NetWire SysOp:

    Caller: "Hello, is this Tech Support?"

    Tech Rep: "Yes, it is. How may I help you?"

    Caller: "The cup holder on my PC is broken and I am within my
    warranty period. How do I go about getting that fixed?"

    Tech Rep: "I'm sorry, but did you say a cup holder?"

    Caller: "Yes, it's attached to the front of my computer."

    Tech Rep: "Please excuse me if I seem a bit stumped, it's because I
    am. Did you receive this as part of a promotional, at a trade show?
    How did you get this cup holder? Does it have any trademark on it?"

    Caller: "It came with my computer, I don't know anything about a
    promotional. It just has '4X' on it."

    At this point the Tech Rep had to mute the caller, because he
    couldn't stand it. The caller had been using the load drawer of the
    CD-ROM drive as a cup holder, and snapped it off the drive!

    

    Re: JIT
    
    when we stiil had manufacturing in the southwest we affectionately
    called it: "Jam In Trailer."
    
    Mike

    So, now it's Wed.. That Starion is collecting dust.  Makes not a sound
    when turned on.  Blinks a bit.
    
    I called the engineer again today.  Got a call back to my Vmail.  He
    sounded a bit miffed, somewhat offended that I bothered him.  Said
    things like:
    
    "Hey, I ordered the parts"	"I pulled an all nighter the other night,
    we're backed up"	"Will not get there today, or tomorrow, MAYBE
    Friday."  "I'll get to you as soon as I can" "If you have a problem
    with that, call the DOC manager"
    
    Hmmm.  This is a nice guy,.  I said that before and I say it again... 
    I called the DOC manager (digital operations center) and I know her as
    well.  Very nice lady...  oy!
    
    But my work is beginning to be effected.  I guess that's what I get for
    using my own system for company business...  my boss is NOT going to
    appreciate a delay in my forecast....
    
    A reading for the book of Starion Warranty Information:
    
    "On Site Service: Purchaser notifies Digital and Digital repairs or
    replaces the product at Purchaser's site or provides Purchaser with a
    replacement unit.  In certain situations, and at Digital's discretion,
    Digital may provide Customer Replaceable Units (CRU's) in lieu of
    on-site service."
    
    "On site service calls will be conducted between 8AM and 5PM local time;
    next business day.  A person 18 years or older is required during the
    service call.  If you or your authorized representative are not
    available when the Customer Engineer arrives, you will be charged for a
    follow-up on-site service call."
    
    "Should Digital be unable to repair or replace the Hardware product
    within a reasonable amount of time, Customer's alternate sole remedy
    shall be a refund of the purchase price upon return of the Hardware
    Product to Digital"
    
    	
    Frustration level is high...

There is not much customer service left within Digital. And the way it
is handled leaves a lot to be desired. This latest incident is a long
story but I'll try to make it short. We received a "new" PC for our group
which came with a bad monitor. Our Asset people wouldn't take it back or
replace it they told us to take it to the service center for per call work.
Great, pay once and then again.

We brought the monitor from PKO1 to PKO3 to the "service" center. The person
working their had an attitude as if to say he couldn't be bothered but leave
the monitor and he would get to it. He did and left a voice mail to pick it
up. We just got back with no monitor. I joked on the way over that we'll
probably find the door locked and a "gone fishing" sign on it. Close, there
is a sign on the door indicating that the person is on vacation and that
security can assist us. Not their job anyway but they would take a drop off
but can't help with a pick up. What a fri**'n company. No mention of when this
person will return either.

The person with me used to work for another major computer company. He said
that there there were no hardware contracts for internal systems of any shape
or size. Have a problem make one phone call, someone comes to your office
and if the system can't be fixed takes it away and returns it when fixed.

Oh well, I guess here we like to waste peoples time and charge them an arm
an a leg for it as well. This is just one of many stories which could be
related but why bother. MCS has layed off just about all the internal techs
anyway.

Jim C.

    

re: .117

Welcome to the frustation level in the field. We are burning our engineers out
because they are working all day then pull all nighters. And you wonder why they
have an attitude. I've said this in a previous note somewhere, most of the field
engineers are fed up and have their resume' out on the street looking for a new
job. Pretty soon, their will be nobody to service the equipment and soon after
that their will be no more customers buying our equipment because of it.

Brad

    re: .119
    
    Too bad no one in the proper position is listening, doing anything
    about it or even cares.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

How does support work when software was recently purchased
and should still be under warrenty (or whatever that 90?
day period is)?  We had a customer purchase stuff for $5000+
who needed a patch right after purchase (patch was already
available) to get the software working but the CSC said 
that they wouldn't help him without a service contract.
Where do those people go for help?  (This fellow went to
comp.unix.osf.osf1 and bitched about it, which did get him
help but also got us some bad press).

thanks,

A. Lenox
lenox@zso.dec.com

> "Should Digital be unable to repair or replace the Hardware product
> within a reasonable amount of time, Customer's alternate sole remedy
> shall be a refund of the purchase price upon return of the Hardware
> Product to Digital"

  Sounds like it's time for an alternate remedy, don't you think?
  Combined with a refund of whatever money you paid towards the
  ineffectual on-site maintenance agreement, this should buy you
  a pretty nice system from a real PC company.

                                         Atlant

    re: .121
    
    That 90 day support is only available to those customers:
    
    a)	get their system from Digital direct or a partner
    b)	so that Digital or the partner sends in the paperwork in a timely
    fashion
    c)	so that their system either gets registered by "someone" "up north"
    d)	or so that their system gets fed properly through SIFU (Ship
    Information Field Update [or something like that])
    e)	so that their system automatically feeds through SCORE SPS
    f)	which registers them for software support for one year (they came
    up with the 90 day warranty before they figured out how it is to be
    delivered (the CSC has no provisions for 90 days support).
    
    however, the warranty DOES NOT include any media updates (standard
    relases or patches) unless the customer subscribes to same; however, if
    they have DSNLink or DIA, AND their system fed through the muck and
    mire properly, AND their warranty was registered PROPERLY with the CSC,
    they should be able to get it for nothing.
    
    This customer should be assigned tto "someone" within the Installed
    Base Sales organization and this is a definite sales opportunity.  Call
    your local contract admin or base sales organization for the area where
    the customer is located and they should be able to help.
    
    Sorry..... can't do much about the bad press....
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

<=====  Yeah, We're a real easy company to do business with.

Unbelieveable, we don't do any marketing to speak of and when we do stumble
upon a customer we make sure they regret it.

Sad.

re: patches...

I've never understand were we get the nerve to CHARGE for fixing a known defect
in something we sold with an assumed level of quality.  patches should be FREE
and easily accessible via the net. 

and we wonder why we're losing...

-mark

    A tech from "Arrow", a company we sub to, came to see my Starion last
    evening.  The parts had been in for a while, but the engineer
    originally given the call was too busy to get to me, as I've said, even
    given a week.  So, an hour after the tech arrived, he left and I was
    quite happy.
    
    Thanks to the DOC manager, I got someone here in 4 business days.  Gad
    knows how long it would have been otherwise.
    
    Thanks to notes I had the right parts when the tech showed up.  The
    power supply was bad.  (changed the realtime clock too)
    
    Glad that's over.
    
    

    try it out -- patches on the web !
    
    http://www.service.digital.com/html/patch_public.html
    
    
    /chris
    
    

>>I've never understand were we get the nerve to CHARGE for fixing a known defect
>>in something we sold with an assumed level of quality.  patches should be FREE
>>and easily accessible via the net. 
    
    This opens some very interesting avenues. Of course the customer just
    sees us all as 'Digital' (and so they should), but in the above
    statement you cover three distinct organisations within the company.
    Sales sells the stuff and has no ability to guarantee quality.
    Engineering create the product and therefore are ultimately
    responsible for the quality, but don't service the customer. MCS
    provide the service, but has no control over product quality and
    doesn't directly make any money out of the sale. MCS *has* to charge
    for "fixing" problems, whether they are known bugs or not, because as a
    separate business it is expected to make a profit. (Now don't shoot me
    if I haven't got all of the above 100% right; I'm sure you can see the
    point I'm making).
    
    As I said, none of this is of any interest to the customer, but as one
    of the CSC people who has to face angry customers that have no support
    contract, I have to answer exactly the question you posed.
    
    BTW, many patches *are* now available for free download on the
    internet.
    
    cheers,
    
    Tony I
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

Actually I knew we had some type of patches on the web.  Thanks for the pointer.
I guess the only question I'd have about this site is why aren't we using Alta
Vista for the searches.  Doesn't it tell our customers we're NOT using the
latest and greatest technology to provide our services to them?

The other thing about patches is I know some are free and some we charge for.
The thing that caused me to bring up the subject was the implication in the
earlier note that the patch needed was CRITICAL to make the software work and
yet we were still requiring some sort of service contract.  Maybe that wasn't
the case and hence the need for a service contract.  If so, I'll retract my
question.

Is it indeed the case that things like bux fixes ARE free?  What types of 
patches do we charge for?

-mark

It looks like like a collision with .128 which was added while I was writing
.129.

re: .128

>    MCS *has* to charge
>    for "fixing" problems, whether they are known bugs or not, because as a
>    separate business it is expected to make a profit. (Now don't shoot me
>    if I haven't got all of the above 100% right; I'm sure you can see the
>    point I'm making).

This isn't aimed at you, do you needn't duck...

I have to totally disagree that everything we do is for the almighty $$$.  What
ever happened to customer satisfaction?  When there is a recall due to a defect
in a car, it's fixed for free!  If there's a defect in a product Digital sells
to a customer, it too should be fixed for free.  Quite frankly, I don't care
about internal politics or business models, I care about keeping our customers
satisfied and coming back, not driving them away by charging for what everyone
else gives them for free.

-mark

The patch needed was critical to get the software
working for this particular customer's environment.

Customer now has working environment because we
do care about customer satisfaction.  We would be
in more trouble if this person hadn't complained
on a usenet newsgroup because of the ill will
generated by not getting information they needed.
(It turns out they had the July LPCD which has
a later version which includes the patch they need).

I thought all the patches available via the web
required a password (or so that what it was the
last time I checked it out).  How is it determined
what patches are free (and who determines it?).

re: 123

The description of how this '90 day support' works
is kind of odd.  I know we are a system company
but it sounded like the software wasn't bought at
the same time.  How does it work when the software
is bought at a separate time from the system?

thanks,

Amy

    Mark, 
    
    I completely agree with you. The reason I am still in the CSC after 8
    years is because I really enjoy taking on customer problems and fixing
    them, and I believe in good customer service. The reason many people
    leave the CSC is frustration at not being able to deliver the
    professional service that we know we could.
    
    The point of my note was to point out that the way this company is
    organised makes it difficult to achieve those aspirations. Whether you
    and I like it or not, MCS is expected to turn in black numbers. The
    only way it is going to do this is through service revenue. Now that
    times are hard we are getting pressure from upper management not to do
    any work that is not explicitly paid for through warranty, service
    contract, or consultancy rates (and as someone said before, warranty
    doesn't cover an awful lot).
    
    Another good example of the way the organisation hampers our quality of
    customer service is hardware purchasing. When Digital brings out a new
    piece of kit, eg the Hinote Ultra, the CSC (at least here in the UK)
    has to stump up the cash to buy one. At the moment we have no cash, and
    hence no Hinote Ultra. When customers call in for help running software
    on a Hinote, we can only give them textbook answers, or find things
    from the notes file. Maybe sometimes if we're lucky we can borrow one. 
    It's downright embarassing. Customers naturally assume that a hardware
    company would just pick one off the production line and send it to the
    support people. In reality nobody wants to shoulder the cost of doing
    that.
    
    cheers,
    
    Tony I
                                

    re .130
    Auto recalls are usually done "kicking and screaming" so don't think
    they are so wonderful as to own up to every defect out there. It's
    taken many years of consumer protectionism to get this far.
    
    As fay as paying for bug fixes...don't you suppose there are a few
    bundled into any given upgrade?
    
    Industry if full of examples where a product is sold with low margins
    so that profits can be made on "consumables". In the software industry
    these are the "point" releases.
    r
    

>    As fay as paying for bug fixes...don't you suppose there are a few
>    bundled into any given upgrade?

I agree.  I've seen articles in which people suggest an emerging model is to
give away version one and sell all the fixes/enhancements.

My only point is if a patch already exists to a known problem, isn't it a lot
cheaper to give it away and avoid all the calls/complaints vs. charge for it?
Is there so little value in our services that the only way we can get people to
buy them is so they can get the patches - I sure hope not...

-mark

        re:132   Too bad the bean counters are so focused on what they feel
    they can see. Granted in the past I'd heard we did a lot for 'LOYAL"
    customers for nothing. With such scrutiny over service expenses do the
    high and mighty bean counters realize a penny saved can ofetn be 10's
    of thousands of dollars in lost future business. We had the same kind
    of  careless scrutiny over expenses in the job I just left in servers. 
    We couldn't get upgrades for our logic analyzer which would cost 17K.
    Yet it was ok to have an additional 2 passes on an ASIC $100k each
    pass. It's more than likely both passes coulda been avoided with the
    right diagnostic equipment in place. If nobody is accountable for
    decisions like this then we'll continue to waste precious money and
    time to market. 
    
    
    bob

    The intent for the "public patch server" is that all patches are made
    public except those which contain royalty-bearing software or which are
    complete replacement kits.  In addition, public patches need to be
    submitted through the DEC STD 204 process (not really difficult - I've
    done it many times.)  The reality is that there are a lot of non-VMS
    patches that are not made public, for reasons unclear to me.  Most of
    the VMS patches are in the public area.
    
    				Steve

    re .105 - an update to this saga
    
    After waiting 10 days for a service call back on the Starion (which
    was supposed to be 24-48 hrs), I called the 800 support line again
    last night.  Service rep couldn't understand what was going on, said
    they could not help, suggested I call back between the hours of
    8:00am - 5:00pm Central Time and try the daytime folks who might
    be able to help.
    
    As a paying customer of Digital Equipment Corp.with a system under
    warrantee, this type of service is truly terrible.
    
    Mark
    
    is 

    Why didn't you escalate it to the duty manager?

    re: back a few....
    
    Alpha's (most of them) are sold with 3 years on-site hardware support
    and 90 days (yep, 90 days ONLY) on the kernel software (OpenVMS, NAS,
    ect.).  Layered Products come with an optional "standard" warranty
    (most of them) that provides 1 year rights-to-new-versions and
    telephone support ONLY if the VMS is fully supported for the same
    period.  Confusing???? Try to explain this to a customer who was sold a
    system and was told that it has 3 year on-site support; wasn't told
    that that only applies to the system box; and no mention of software
    support from anyone.....
    
    Digital has come up with Supplemental Services part #'s that uplift all
    the software, etc., to pretty much whatever level the customer needs,
    but our partners (and some Digital sales people as well) haven't been
    trained and therefore aren't sure what to sell, so they sell nothing
    (in most instances).
    
    I get these customers after the sale and usually after they've tried to
    get support and can't.....  They are usually VERY unhappy...
    
    Hope this helps people understand better what our customer's are facing
    pretty much every day.
    
    Toodles.....JPs
    

    MCS SHOULD charge for fco's and software fixes, but the one they 
    should charge is not the customer, engineering should be charged.
    They would be much more careful of the products they ship.
    
    I know of an engineering group who knowingly allowed software to be
    shipped that COULD NOT work without a patch (which was included
    in a future release).  They felt it was ok because "The csc will
    take care of it".  What a great way to impress our customers!

>    MCS SHOULD charge for fco's and software fixes, but the one they 
>    should charge is not the customer, engineering should be charged.
>    They would be much more careful of the products they ship.
    
you'd get my vote, just as long as it's done efficiently!  I know years ago it
used to cost us something like $100 a patch (more or less) because we refused
to deliver them over the Internet.  In that case everyone (including the
customer) lost... 

-mark

    This is truly the problem.  Back in the late 80's, software and
    hardware engineering stopped issuing fco' and eco's as the standard.
    The field is told by the center that such n such is out of rev and
    needs to be upgraded.  There is not fco or eco # for them to charge
    their time to, or to order parts under. I see this day in and day out
    in the network support business, where there is seldom a hardware
    issue, but most of the time there are known firmware/software issues
    with the versions they are running.  We in the center ipmt the case to
    engineering, they come back and say, here, pull this new image from
    this disk and get it to the customer.  They are seldom following 
    decstandard 204 and releaseing these software/firmware releases to
    SSB so that the center can send the patch or new image directly to the
    customer.  This distribution is not supposed to work this way.  
    The center does not stock tapes and neither does it have the disk
    space to pull images down here to keep on our disks to build the kits
    to send to the customer.  I should not pick on a group, but one group
    that got me really agitated was the DECNIS engineering group that has
    released over 30 new bug fixes in the last two years and only about
    3 of them have gone to ssb.  We in the center were have engineers in
    the field, drive to the nearest local office and they were having to
    pull the kit from Redding, drive back to the customer site, and all
    of this was not being charged back to the Engineering group.  The 
    unix engineering group is the same way, except many of their patches
    are downloadable off the internet.  All the while MCS has been carrying
    this cost to keep upgrading all this hardware.  
    
      Where is the incentive for Engineering groups to get it right if they
    do not have to assume the cost of these upgrades?  Just looks like they
    moved most of their cost structures to MCS.  
    
      One thing in defense of the DECNIS group,  after I wrote my letter to
    John Rando to bring this to his attention, they did release the next
    fix to SSB, version 3.1-6.  Version 3.1-7 showed up at SSB about 10
    days later.  Really is cost effective for the field to have to
    continually upgrade software like this!
    
    Paul Youngmeyer
    CSC Network Support

 
In Note 4706.139 MSDOA::SCRIVEN  wrote:

>    Alpha's (most of them) are sold with 3 years on-site hardware support
>    and 90 days (yep, 90 days ONLY) on the kernel software (OpenVMS, NAS,
>    ect.).  Layered Products come with an optional "standard" warranty
>    (most of them) that provides 1 year rights-to-new-versions and
>    telephone support ONLY if the VMS is fully supported for the same
                                   ^^^ 
Is this true for Digital UNIX as well?  How does a customer find this out?
(Imagine that I don't care about VMS and live in the UNIX & NT world).
In fact, how does this work for our NT software?  The same?

>    period.  Confusing???? Try to explain this to a customer who was sold a
>    system and was told that it has 3 year on-site support; wasn't told
>    that that only applies to the system box; and no mention of software
>    support from anyone.....
    
[rest deleted]

thanks,

A. Lenox 

    The short answer is yes. it applies to VMS, UNIX, and NT (with Bill
    Gates complications).
    
    The long answer needs to involve a phone discussion.
    
    Louie (who used to teach sales how to uplift these lousy warranties
    with "Supplemental Services"

    Re .144

>    The short answer is yes. it applies to VMS, UNIX, and NT (with Bill
>    Gates complications).

    This may be the same thing you mean by "with Bill Gates complications"
    but I would prefer just dropping NT from this answer. VMS and UNIX are
    serviced in the System Support Portfolio (SSS/SNS/LPS), WNT is not. Buy
    Software Supplemental Service for a UNIX system and you get
    Right-to-new-version for software. Supplemental Service for WNT does
    not include RTNV.

    Of course we should also note that this is mostly a U.S. discussion for
    several reasons. One reason is that the Supplemental Service parts
    referred to here are a U.S. practice. They are not worldwide.

    - Bob
    

    .140
    
    No change since 1983 then...

If Engineering is to be charged for providing fixes, we should get at least
some of the service income as well.

					Steve

    Simple way to cut costs: don't provide bugs that need to be fixed.

I'm sure Andy knows this, but if one was required to ensure that a software
product had NO bugs, you'd never be able to ship it. (There is some
theoretical work on "proof of correctness", but it isn't applicable in 
real products.)  Clearly there are some products which seem to have more of
a problem than others in terms of number and severity of bugs.  The more
complicated a product is, the more varied its interfaces, the more likely
it is that undetected bugs are present.  We need to be able to efficiently
and effectively distribute corrections to customers.  The FTP server goes
a long way towards this.

A real problem is that MCS is very protective of its revenue stream.  In some
sense this is not unreasonable, but it also drives up costs and increases risk
for other parts of the company (as well as customers).  For example, MCS has
objected to our dropping magtape distribution of some products, as they get
a lot of revenue from tape distribution.  MCS has also objected to product
retirements, even though the engineering group has no funding to maintain
the product.  We need to find a balance here...

					Steve

Most respectfully, Steve, Engineering gets all the product revenues.  Service
bears the costs of product deficiencies, which don't get reflected in the
product revenues.

BobW

>================================================================================
>Note 4706.147                Customer ????? Service                   147 of 149
>QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent"       4 lines   5-AUG-1996 09:17
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>If Engineering is to be charged for providing fixes, we should get at least
>some of the service income as well.
>
>                                        Steve
>

>If Engineering is to be charged for providing fixes, we should get at least
>some of the service income as well.

Would engineering also be willing to pay a percentage of the LOSS on each call?

I wonder how many people realize what the slighest product defect can cost us.
A number years ago I heard horror stories (which I'm sure the people in the
front lines could go on endlessly about) that amazed me.  One that sticks in my
mind was the fact that something like half the network problems were related to
printer problems and of those the majority had to do with printers connected to
terminal servers.  It turned out to correctly configure a printer on a server
took something like 3 manuals and many customers were missing at least one. 
These types of calls could easily take over an hour to close since one had to
stay on the phone and hold the customer's hand until they were back on-line.

Whether that piece of information ever made it back to engineering and whether
or not they chose to do anything about it is anyone's guess. 

I realize the most severe problems make it back to engineering for resolution,
but what about the minor problems that can take anywhere from 10 minutes to an
hour or more to fix?  If we could simply design out those problems (a lot can
be attributed to anything from documentation to user interface design) think of
the number of calls we could eliminate? 

Perhaps we should look at the number of calls we expect to take on a particular
product (or more importantly the ELAPSED TIME) and if we come in under that,
engineering gets a kick-back and if we exceed it that they pay more! 

-mark 

>             <<< Note 4706.150 by SPECXN::WITHERS "Bob Withers" >>>
>
>Most respectfully, Steve, Engineering gets all the product revenues.  Service
>bears the costs of product deficiencies, which don't get reflected in the
>product revenues.
>
>BobW
>
>>=============================================================================
>>Note 4706.147             Customer ????? Service                   147 of 149
>>QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent"    4 lines   5-AUG-1996 09:17
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>If Engineering is to be charged for providing fixes, we should get at least
>>some of the service income as well.

And is it not widely known that the product creation groups (of which
engineering is a part) pay MCS for the warranty coverage that MCS provides?
This DOES get added to the cost of the product, and represents part of 
the margin between cost and revenue, so product creation groups DO feel
the monetary hit of warranty provision.

That's the way it is in hardware product groups.

- tom]

Engineering gets the revenue from the initial sale of the product (part of
which goes to MCS), but gets nothing from support contracts which entitle
the customer to run new versions.  Customers don't need those contracts,
as Digital has refused to enforce the Ts and Cs of the software license
regarding licensed versions.

I am not in any way belittling the work MCS does, and I know there are some
products out there I would be ashamed to release.   But there's no real
incentive for Engineering to push for better quality - about all I see is
a dictum that "SPRs over 180 days old must be closed", or something like that.
We've dismantled SQA/SQOIS, and the metrics are based on schedule, not quality.

Luckily, there are some engineering groups which will choose to slip schedule
if quality is not satisfactory, so this problem is not universal.  But it
is widespread enough to be troublesome.

				Steve

    But let's be fair (or FARE, if you prefer), the warranty that the BU's
    give MCS is based on expected product failure during the warranty
    period, and NOT on modifications that need to be done because of
    anything else.
    
    Louie            

And then there is the QAR answer that I got in the mail *TODAY* fixing a
QAR from *SEVEN* years ago! This does however reflect a certain amount
of perseverance that must be admired.

Subj:	Response to VMS V5 QAR 1338 - ANAL/RMS ABORTS WITH A DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR

  A fix for this problem is now on the master pack and will
  appear in the next release of OpenVMS.  

  We see no reason for the customer to be notified in this case
  (7 years after the fact).  This SPR should be closed silently.

Lucky for me I don't have to notify the customer. I haven't a clue who
he is anymore! liesl

    Re .149:
    
    > (There is some theoretical work on "proof of correctness", but it
    > isn't applicable in real products.)
    
    There's at least one processor that has been proven correct.  I think
    the work was done in England.  You should find mention of it in the
    Risks Digest archives, if you are interested.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    RE: Note 4706.153 by QUARK::LIONEL
    
>Engineering gets the revenue from the initial sale of the product (part of
>which goes to MCS), but gets nothing from support contracts which entitle
>the customer to run new versions.  Customers don't need those contracts,
>as Digital has refused to enforce the Ts and Cs of the software license
>regarding licensed versions.

    Not to disagree, but its my understand that engineering does get a 
    kickback for service contract revenue since if it wasn't for the
    existance of the product, there would be nothing to service.
    
    In years gone by, customers had to get support contracts just to
    get on the distribution list for the next release.  With the advent
    of CDROMs and the fact that the PAKs given to customers have no release
    date encoded on them, the customers simply get the CDROM distribution
    and pull off new releases all the time.  No service revenue is
    generated (OK with me since no service was needed) and no new
    engineering revenue is generated (not OK since engineering spent
    additional time fixing the bugs we found).
    
    Which is why we should charge $49.95 or something for each new
    major release.
    
    				-John

    [Provably correct hardware will be the Viper from the UK Ministry of
    Defence research folks. Provably correct specifications, which is what
    really matters, do not exist]

NOTE - The last n replies have delt with how certain groups
need to get income from or charge another internal group to cover their
tails.

And WHAT WAS THE CUSTOMER PROBLEM THEY WERE FIXING?

How were they making it easier to do business with DEC.

    Re-1:
    
    err ummm.... Hubris alert!

    > [Provably correct hardware will be the Viper from the UK Ministry of
    
    back when I was still in graduate school (~13 yrs ago) "proofs of
    correctness" software techniques generally depended upon predicates (or
    invariants) which could be proved to hold through every path in the
    software.  Unfortunately back then, the predicates had to be laughably
    weak for any non-trivial software, and/or there were restrictions on
    the transformations the software could perform for the technique in
    question could still apply.
    
    Has the theory advanced to the point where such weaknesses no longer
    apply?

    A recent case in the UK between ICL and St Albans Council has resulted
    in software being classed as "goods" and hence subject to the Sale of
    Goods act. This broad legislation means that items must be of
    satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. There is of course the
    possibility of appeal.
    Among items that caught my eye was a reported remark of a judge that if
    Windows 95 works perfectly well why can't ICL's software? The process
    of "iteration" that is where software is supplied with known problems
    which are fixed in a later release has been overturned, the judges
    ruled that packaged software should be no more defective than a vacuum
    cleaner. There were also rulings to limit the size of limited liability
    clauses.
    
    All in all - a lot of work for lawyers.
    
    Andrew

    re .162
    
    >    Among items that caught my eye was a reported remark of a judge that if
    >    Windows 95 works perfectly well why can't ICL's software? The process
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Ha Ha Ha
    
    A good one :-)
    
    Chris
    
    

Perhaps the judge would like to use my PC for a while?  It often works.

___Pete

    Whatever you think of the Judge's decision, if this sticks it has
    pretty severe implications for the UK software market, don't you think?
    
    cheers, 
    
    Tony I

    There is nowt new about software being classified as "goods". Various
    people I know have returned software as "unfit for the purpose sold"
    under the UK Sale of Goods act and gotten their money back.
    
    /a

    The issue is not just shuffling funny money around between internal
    groups but rather mcs appears to have made customer delivery decisions
    around decstandard 204, and this is not being followed.  If MCS needs
    to cut the patches and get thim to the customer, then we in MCS need
    access to the equipment to handle any type of media and to stock that
    media as well.  At this time it is just a fly by night operation that
    does impact customer delivery.
    
     And yes, we in MCS do not need to be upgrading/bug fixing some groups
    box every 3-4 weeks.  It is not cost effective.  I also beleave that is
    the reasoning behind decstandard 204.  It was also a way for corporate
    to track a product that is costing to much to support.
    
    Paul

re: 167

  Hmmm, it sounds like the 204 standard is outdated in at least
one area unless it restricts itself to what media the product ships
on.

  If we only ship our product on CD, I don't think any other media
should be supported for patches.  If they don't have a CD drive
these days on UNIX or NT, they are pretty much SOL in this world.

  Very frequently all that is needed is uuencode & e-mail.

>CSC32::P_YOUNGMEYER
> ^^^
>    The issue is not just shuffling funny money around between internal
>    groups but rather mcs appears to have made customer delivery decisions
>    around decstandard 204, and this is not being followed.  If MCS needs
>    to cut the patches and get thim to the customer, then we in MCS need
>    access to the equipment to handle any type of media and to stock that
>    media as well.  At this time it is just a fly by night operation that
>    does impact customer delivery.

Re .167:

You have access to the following Tape drives (in the CSC32 Lab):
  TZ87
  TZ875
  TF85
  8MM
  4MM
  TA90E
  TK70
  TK50
  TA79
  TU81
  TS11
  
What tape drive do you need that you don't have access to?  

BTW, as a former customer, I found the DSNlink download access to patches MUCH
more efficient than getting patch tapes cut & sent by snail-mail.  

It's not so much finding the correct device, it is finding media laying around
to put it on.

Brad

    RE: .168
    
    I was on the committee that wrote DEC STD 204.  It doesn't mention
    any media.  They delivery choice (physical media, electronic
    delivery, etc.) is left upto the geography to decide.  DEC STD 204 
    doesn't require LMF compliance (for those who might ask).
    
    				-John
    

    The center or field escalates a call.  The eng group responds with here
    is patched images, get them to the customer.  The center does not have
    the media as decstandard 204 says that the patches are supposed to go
    to ssb where the patch is then distributed by the media of choice to
    the customer.  We are not ramped up in the centers with the media we
    need and eng is not sending the patches to ssb as they should in a
    timly manner.  Hence the customer suffers for it as service delivery
    does not match what is specified and planned for.
    
    Paul

Re: 172

  'LMF compliance'?  Don't you mean 'setld compliance'?  If the product
uses LMF, it should do so in both a patched and unpatched state.

      RE; 101    
    
             My PC is fixed, after posting the note in this file I recieved
     call from Ernie in Atlanta.  Sorry Ernie I forgot your last, after all
     you did work with my wife mostly, nice recovery thanks for the help.
     Ernie, quite concerned, this should not have happened this system was
     obviously broke, did a great job coordinating my repair problem.  And
     a very special thanks to Shana Stringer (spelling?) the field engineer
     who did the work, very professional and knowledgable.  Since my 
     particular terminal was backordered and we were disperate at this
     point, a loaner terminal was delivered to the house.  This really 
     defussed the whole situation, once a working terminal was obtained
     Shanna came and installed the new terminal and picked up the old
     for us.
    
                  Once again thankyou,  nice recoverery from a bad start
    
                 Don and Sue MacKinnon
    
    

    RE: .174
    
    I mentioned LMF since there has been a some negative comments
    surrounding LMF and PAKs.  DEC STD 204 has no additional
    requirements surrounding LMF or PAKs.
    
    DEC STD 204 says that for OpenVMS, the ECOs and MUPs must use one
    of the installation tools available on the system (either VMSINSTAL
    or PCSI).  For Digital UNIX, we tried real hard to enforce the use
    of setld and some intelligence for where to put the patched files.
    From reading the Digital UNIX conference, many customers (including
    myself) are confused when they simply extract a tar file and are left
    with a bunch of .o files lying around in their directory.  I don't
    trust myself to place the files where needed.  Some people argued
    that "tar" was an installation tool, I personally didn't buy that
    argument, but some people did.  I don't remember if left any weasel
    words with regards to avoiding setld.
    
    DEC STD 204 does not say how to get that VMSINSTAL/PCSI or setld kit
    to the customer.  You can use floppy, magtape, CDROM, DSNlink,
    Dixie cups and a piece of string, a quija board, etc.  The standard
    doesn't care.  The distribution is left as a task for the services
    organization (in early drafts of the standard, we did say how to
    distribute the ECOs/MUPs, but we got pounded upon by the various
    service groups in the US and Europe).
    
    Most of the requirements imposed by DEC STD 204 are on the engineering
    groups, not on the service groups.
    
    				-John

I believe that the CSC did a study on the costs of sending patches by
various media. At the time the study was done we did not have internet
access for DSNlink and there was no internet free patch service. 
Given the cost of modem connections it was determined that after a
certain size patches were to be sent on media. There are also more than
a few customers who still fear the internet for software delivery.

As it stands today, from the CSC in Colorado, we have secure internet
connection via DSNlink,WIS,DIA and the free patch service on the 
gateway. There is also a new ability for specialists to use the gateway
to send and recieve files from customers not on DSNlink though it is
all manual. Now, I have no idea what *rules* have to be followed but
except for customer request there is no need to send media rather than
copying a file over the internet. liesl

    re: .173
    
    What is described here is a "hot fix" scenario that is not covered by
    DEC STD 204, other than that it is mentioned as an "individual customer
    fix" or some such verbiage.  
    
    If Engineering provides a hot fix to the CSC for a specific customer
    issue, that hot fix may or may not get rolled up into an ECO or a MUP.
    
    It should be a matter of negotiation between the CSC and Engineering as
    to how that hot fix gets delivered to the customer. 
    
    It was my understanding that the SSB limited the media on which ECOs
    and MUPs could be delivered.
    
    	dave

	With the bulk cost of CD-R blanks ~$7.00 these days and a 4X recorder
(about $1500) can fill a 650 meg CD in under 20 minutes, it seems like that 
ought to be the prefered method over other hard media.  Internet/dialup ought
to be the overall preferred choice.


					--D

    RE: .178
    
    Correct.  DEC STD 204 recognized that on some occasions (like CLDs),
    you might want direct customer contact and testing before you ever
    got to the ECO stage.  I have indeed mailed kits directly to customers
    as well as uuencoding .EXE files and mailing them directly to
    customers.
    
    As for 
    
>    It was my understanding that the SSB limited the media on which ECOs
>    and MUPs could be delivered.

    ECOs are delivered only into TIMA per DEC STD 204.  If somebody in
    the services organization pulls all ECOs out of TIMA and offers them
    as a service, I don't see why the SSB should care on the media choice.
    
    As for MUPs, DEC STD 204 says that they are submitted to the SSB
    on traditional media just like normal submissions.  (IE, magtape
    and TK50 for VAX, electronic-only for Alpha to burn a CDROM).
    Again, I don't see any special SSB requirements on media for MUPs.
    
    				-John

Having read the note posted in 4706.110 and his following notes, I figured I
had better wait a few days to post my note responding to his questions.

From the original engineer assigned to your call. Me.

I tried to sleep tonight but had to get up and write something down in order
to feel a little better.

I have tried to give my best to this company for all the years I have been 
here. When I first came to Digital I noticed something different than from
where I had come from (TRW CUSTOMER SERVICES). At Digital they were not bad
mouthing the company all the time and there was a feeling of happiness and
we can do anything attitude.

Well I'm back to where I had come from now. The people who are around me 
complain about everything. Including me. The job that I do is not an easy one
but it has changed over the years. I was always a system engineer and still
do consider myself one. But the business need was to move lots of us system
engineers to handle the Desktop business. Hence here I sit at 2:00 am writing
this letter after having read some of the reply and comments here in this note.

I guess that there is a little bit of a recap on what has happened in the past
with regards to Customer Services most especially the Desktop business. We
now service anything that is not nailed down. We service it without training,
support, and sometimes without parts. Someday I work on not a piece of
Digital equipment computer gear. Calcomp,Dell,Compaq,Micron,Packard Bell,NEC,
Hewett Packard, and many others.
 There have been so many contracts that have sold the DIGITAL Services
Response Difference that most calls are service special customers. One hour
call backs with four hour on site response windows are a dime a dozen. There
are so many that virtually all the calls in my call queue are Decservice
something response (this morning Wednesday there were 17 calls in there).
 
The service area ranges have increased with training and vacation season.
Pagers work sometimes but stopping to find a phone isn't easy on
todays super highways. It would sure help to have cell phones but they cost too
much as a service tool.  It takes time to do the little things, like answer a
page to call customer and screen a call, or order a part, or find a part
number (the Library now has only 6 people to service everyone, and they do a
great job with what they have, but the hold time have increased), or maybe
even find out some info on what you are going to work on next (have you called
the support lines lately? Just give me a service book to start fixing the thing
than when I get stuck I'll wait the long wait, maybe next day call back from
the experts if there are any left out there) ,or maybe ordering all the parts
that may fix the problem instead of order just the first thing you may need
than order all the rest. The days of having all the parts for a model all in
one kit are gone, let alone having all the parts in one place.

The time to do the job has increased with extra levels of paper to do and
special calls to make on status, and call closures.
Heck even the Champ system has taken more of our time. Not being able to type
system and have serial number follow takes extra time as well as the new method
of having to transmit to a system holdups take a little more time but these are
improvements. TMS another great eater of time.
 Instead of making the job get easier and more streamlined to get people to be
able to do more, we have done just the opposite in the service end of the
business. Instead it has given root to long hours trying to get the job done
(so the customers will not complain). Hours of additional work trying to get
the customer fixed and satisfied for Digital. All while we go in the wrong
direction of doing more with less. 

Mark I tried my best to get your parts and get the call done but the 25 hour 
network server problem for one of the million dollar service deals that
was sold kept me from doing your call on Tuesday, I got in at 9:30 am after
those 25 hours on site. My managers directive to go and service them first
on Wed along with the other high paying  Decservice customers is what took
up my time till late tonight. This also meant all my other Decservice customers
were put back a day or two also, most understood.

I did however turn you call over to have some other engineer handle it if
possible. The 94 hours of work last week may not have helped either or the 115
hours of work the week before. Maybe the 2000+ miles I traveled between service
calls in the last 12 days had something to do with it also.

But no matter the CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. The engineer did you wrong, he
didn't make the contract committed response so you have a right to escalate
as I indicated to you. 

I am sorry you were not happy with our response. As a Digital (DIGIT) employee
you should be aware of the effect of all the downsizing (rightsizing?) that has 
occurred.  Too much work, not enough people or time. 

Might I interest you in a Decservice service upgrade to your contract?

/Irv Luizza
Digital Multivendor Customer Services Engineer 
 
   

    Gosh Irv,
    
    Too bad you're back east, I'd have ya' over and we could swap
    stories over a couple of beers.(Oh boy, the PC people will fume over
    that one). 
    
    <Enable Soapbox bit>
    
    I was sitting here reading you note and thought I WROTE IT. Then I
    looked at the author and saw it was you. In a way, it feels good to
    know other Field Service Engineers (note I didn't use MCS Engineer,
    what a joke...) are feling the same way I do, and in a way I feel
    terible that they do. I'm told "Why do other cost centers not have the
    problems you mention, John. " Well, now I can point to you note as
    proof that its not as rosey as they'd like to believe. 
    
    Hell, I figure if I last long enough around here, I'll have my very own
    VP.
    
    <Disable Soapbox bit>
    
    John

    Irv, go to sleep. It's broken and you are not allowed to fix it.  (and
    I don't mean my peecee)

    RE: .180
    
    >>> I have indeed mailed kits directly to customers as well as uuencoding 
    >>> .EXE files and mailing them directly to customers.

    Yep, I've had to do the same thing.  I once worked all day on a high
    priority CLD, made the fix, and then tested out the new image.  After
    submitting the fix for a patch kit, it took over a month before
    somebody got around to building a kit.  Others in my group have had the 
    same experience.  It kinda frustrating working hard to have some group
    drop the ball due to lack a resources.


    						-Paul

    Come on lets get off of it! I read about the first 20 replies. Our
    Call Management Centers, are at the very least in disarray! At one time
    most of the people at the 800 number were temps. What do they care.
    Do you ever see a call logged 100% properly. The DEC employees are 
    waiting for the axe to fall(again). 
    
    The internal Support number is a real disaster. Ive waited several
    times for up to two hours to get an answer(fixed it in the mean time)
    left site and then heard from someone the next day! 
    
    My customers never complained about logging a call until this past
    year. Now I hear nothing but complaints. Maybe not every day but a
    couple times a week at least. Forget about these peek times(except
    during system outages) we are in deep poop! 
    
    I wonder if any of the upper Management are listening?
    
    MikeTurro
    MCS Baltimore
    

    When logging a call with Colorado this morning, I was told that jobs
    are so plentiful in Colorado Springs at the moment that the temps are
    finding better/perm jobs with other employers. Supposed to be 14 open
    reqs for front line call screening.                   

Yup, in the Colorado Springs area, companies are moving here left and right, so
the contract workers are finding other, better, more stable jobs. I think the
un-employment rate here is about 4% maybe even less. If anyone has looked at VTX
JOBS_US, you will see about 35 job opening in CXO, none of them that I see are
for call screeners though. So I would still say they are filling them with
temp/contract workers.

I've also interviewed people for some of the jobs and many of the outside people
I've talked to are hesitant to work for Digital because of the perceived
stability of the company to the outside world.

    Time to close down the call center in CXO then and move it where
    the unemployment rate is much higher and people are hungry for
    working. Not hungry just for working but working for us. Either
    that or off load work there to other call centers. Of course if
    we didn't dump so many good people in the call centers we wouldn't
    have the problems we have. But those in ivory towers don't understand
    the role of people taking calls at these centers and that you can't
    just place a body in a seat with a phone and expect customer
    satisfaction. The Colorado call center once was something we could
    be more than proud of. Others tore it down. It's not the fault of
    the people remaining who take calls who are the problem.
    
    My toungue is only somewhat firmly in my cheek.
    
    Jim C.
    
    
    

    <<<< Note 4706.188 by ICS::CROUCH "Subterranean Dharma Bum" >>>
    
        Time to close down the call center in CXO then and move it where
        the unemployment rate is much higher and people are hungry for
        working. Not hungry just for working but working for us.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Huh,  What truck did you fall off of?  I worked the field when I had
    frequent need of the services of the CXO support center.  In the 1980's
    and up into the early 1990's that was a real class act, I was really
    happy to be working there.  [1991-1994]  TFSO has ripped the guts out
    of a real great group of people.  There was little that you could not
    get help with there.  The library was great!  I worked Printer Support
    and we worked our butts off trying to assist the field.  Now what is
    left there is not a support group, just a few people who know something
    and if you can get them to help you are very lucky indeed.  The only
    printers that are currently supported are those that are not made with
    a "Digital" logo on it.  So the field is now become smarter, they lie,
    and say that a LP29 is a Bp2000.   Sometimes it works.  
    
    Way that it worked was we in the "CXO support center", were told that
    Mr. Rando did not want the support center, so he told the field that
    there was no support, and that the field was self supporting.  There
    was no more call for support, so the need of the center was diminished
    to the point of not being supported.  Reduce center head count...
    reduce the expertise.... increase the flustration level of the field
    personnel.  
    
    Want to know why people leave other than TFSO, Miss Management, and
    that is not Ms.   In my opinion why migrate the expertise to CXO and
    then shoot the Center?  Sounds pretty stupid, huh?
    
    Dave
    
    

    my .189 was not ment to be a slap to anyone who works in CXO... you
    know your stuff, we just do not have access to you.
    
    Dave

    re: .189
    
    Too bad you couldn't read the sarcasm in the note.
    
    It was as Foghorn leghorn would say, "a joke son, just a joke".
    
    You also must not have read the whole note or you would have
    seen I'm on your side. 
    
    Haven't taken a ride in a truck in some years and never fell
    out of one either.
    
    Later,
    
    Jim C.
    

    
    any of you catch the new ads on the airline flights? just got back
    from california and united had the usual movie, and then a comedy,
    then some microsoft infomercials and then it came.....
    A DIGITAL advertisement......
    
    as an employee i straightened up at almost attention.....cool
    a digital commercial on an airline flight....(captive audience to boot)
    
    well it kinda left me feeling a little sick...we really beef up the 
    bull@$%& when it comes to advertising what we would 'like' to do as
    opposed to what we really can do....no wonder the customers get
    upset when they buy our goods (read: Janet Wallace telling the world
    what a wonderful MCS org there is to support their every needs....)
    Maybe Janet should join the TRENCH for a while......
    
    I wonder why she never mentioned that MCS has downsized themselves
    almost to oblivion and will never be able to deliver what the
    advertisements state....  
    
    other than the obvious bullcrapola, it was at least good to see the 
    digital logo at the bottom of the commercial.....and 275 people got
    to see it for about ten minutes.....
    
    chet  

    An advert is not meant to be an honest appraisal of your company.
    That's what Gartner group is for! 
    
    
    Tony I 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Web Information and Support (WIS)  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!            Announcment              !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Entitled service customers with access to the Web can now use their
     favorite browser to connect to electronic services through an easy-to-
     use, graphical interface. 

     Web Information and Support (WIS) is a new electronic delivery
     application that allows customers to submit electronic service
     requests, access databases, download patch kits, transfer files FROM
     Digital, and connect to global notes conferences via the World Wide
     Web.  (NOTE: There is no file transfer TO Digital at this time.)

     WIS can be accessed by opening:

          	     http://www.service.digital.com/wis
 
     Click on the words "United States," and enter a valid DIA Access ID
     and password.  WIS and DIA use the same underlying account and
     directory on the Digital Customer Support Center host system. 

     If you speak with a U.S. customer who would like to be registered for 
     WIS, you can log a call for them in the CAD queue.  Other customers can
     register for a WIS account by contacting their local Customer Support 
     Center or local Digital representative. 


     DSNEXPRESS
     ----------

     If you need to copy a file to a WIS/DIA customer, you can use
     DSNexpress to do so.  Log onto any system which has DSNexpress
     installed and follow the syntax below: 

     		$  DSNEXPRESS PUT/METH=DDIACOPY/ACC=ob_id/SRQ=seq# <CR>
     		_File to send:  filename.ext <CR>

     where ob_id is the customer's DIA obligation id, seq# is the sequence
     number of the service request that you are working, and filename.ext
     is the file you want to copy to the customer. You MAY specify a remote
     location for the file.  NOTE:  The sequence number used must be for a
     service request which has been logged for the customer's DIA or WIS
     obligation id. 

     The file is copied to the customers account on our DSNlink Host system.
     The next time the customer logs into their WIS account they can copy 
     the file down to their system using an ftp interface provided by WIS.

     CAUTION: At this time, customers can NOT copy files TO Digital using 
              WIS.  This functionality is scheduled for the next release.

     For further information on using DSNexpress to copy files to a WIS
     customer, and to or from a DIA customer, see the STARS article in the
     SERVICE_TOOLS database entitled "Using DSNexpress to Copy Files to &
     from DIA/WIS Customers." 


     WIS Program Office
    

Please note that the info at the bottom of the memo about DSNexpress
is for CSC specialists.  liesl

Re: -2

What determines if a notes conference is global or not?

    "global notes conference" is a bit of a misnomer and in any case has
    nothing to do with the contents of Digital Internal Use Only
    notesfiles like this one.
    
    The DIA/WIS "Global Conferencing" is actually based on VAXnotes but the
    conference files are for inter-customer discussions and semi-formal
    discussion with Digital MCS.
    
    /Chris.

The notes conferences are as Chris stated. Access to them may be 
purchased as a service offer. As far as I know *NO ONE* has bought
this. Yet another piece of development forced on engineering with
no thought as to the viability of the product. I'm sure it was the
bright idea of some paper pusher who'd heard that customers were
crying to get access to our internal notesfiles. Of course never
realising that the customers mean the get down and dirty engineering
files and not some whitewashed and censored file. I suppose they
never heard of the *free* newsgroups either. liesl

>Yet another piece of development forced on engineering with
>no thought as to the viability of the product. 

actually, having been somewhat involved with this I can lend a different
perspective.  the request from the business group was for some kind of mechanism
to allow customers to have discussions with each other.  MY recommendation was
to go with something off-the-shelf and accepted as a 'industry standard' such as
news groups for the Internet community, BBS's for those who felt more 
comfortable in that environment (we're talking several years ago and BBS's were
still hot back then), and for those VMS customers who still insisted on NOTES,
let them use it in native mode.

it was ENGINEERING MANAGEMENT that forced a notes solution onto the business
organization stating that it was a more global solution.

-mark

    okay, I'll bite.  Where are these global notesfiles?  A pointer,
    please.
    
    Mark

>    okay, I'll bite.  Where are these global notesfiles?  A pointer,
>    please.
    
sorry, mark, these are for CUSTOMERS and the support folks, not for the digital
community at large...

-mark

    >>okay, I'll bite.  Where are these global notesfiles?  A pointer, please.
    
    they are at the URL indicated in .194
    
    you won't be able to access them unless you have a valid DIA/WIS
    Customer Contract number and password.
    
    
    re: comment on alternative Internet/BBS technologies;
    
    Solutions based on BBS, Web forums and Usenet newsgroups are in the
    pipeline and will be ready for customer trial in Q1/Q2.
    
    /Chris.

    The WIS solution sound similar to one I proposed (verbally) to my
    manager. The difference being, the interface was such that if the
    customer entered their contract ID# the 'blanks' would fill in. They
    then could modify any field needed (phone #, contact, etc), and add a
    severity field (not passed as a CHAMP/CSC field, but data. The amount
    of 'bad' call sent to the field from the CSC should decrease somewhat.
    
    The customers web data could be "filtered" as to prevent direct access,
    but it still would be helpful to the customer and eliminate hold times
    for the ones that have web access.
    
    John

    Ok, have it your way.  Can I get one of these access codes?
    
    What's the value if only customers and support folks are in
    this closed communications environment?
    
    Mark

A totally open and free environment already exist for customers and Digital 
empoyees.  For starter, see the Usenet News groups:

comp.os.vms
comp.sys.dec

A number of hard working Digital employee respond directly to customers to 
help resolve their problem.


						-Paul

there is also comp.unix.osf.osf1 or various mailing lists (e.g.
NetWorker has related mailing lists where people deal with
problems they have; the list deals with NetWorker on multiple
platforms).

    Hello...
    
    
    I have followed this string with GREAT interest.  I am on the FRONT END
    of the CSC 1-800 phone support line, and I agree to what everyone it
    discussing here;  But, I am not sure if anything will be done.
    
    My reason is that several months ago, actually about 17 months ago
    I responded to another topic like this one, and all I asked or
    "challanged" was for someone who can change the way we do business
    actually sit on the phone for a week..5 business days and listen
    to what is going on. I didn't mean to sit for one or two hours, but a week.
    
    I was contacted by one of the VP's, and sat in his office where we
    discussed my note, and some of the things that I saw.  But, nothing has
    seemingly changed for the better.
    
    There has been some re-org. in the CSC, but in my HUMBLE opinion...It
    has been "musical chairs"...Maybe, at my level I don't see all of the
    impacts, changes, restructuring thats' occuring..But I don't need to,
    because the phone rings, the customer is upset and I am the one who 
    gets to hold the bag for someone elses decision.
    
    So, again I put the "challange" out , Please sit on the phones for a week
    and see what is actually going on in the pit...
    
    Thanks for reading,
    
    
    Jeff "Only a call screener, wage class 2" 

AltaVista Forum was never considered? We don't want to show off our own 
technology, do we? At least the AltaVista site uses Forum tp do technical 
support.

Newsgroups shouldn't be considered an official Digital support channel. If 
you're being goaled to support customers via News, then good for you, and you 
can probably remove your "What I say is not connected in any way with Digital" 
.signatures. 8-)

PJDM

    
    
    
    
    Dear Digital letter from a customer. This doesn't bode well.
    
    
            Dear Digital,
    
            Since you are always looking for suggestions...
       
            I've noticed that from 8am - 4pm, usually, there always seems
    	    to be a 15 minute wait to get thru to the operator via the
    	    800-354-9000 number.
    
            In most of my cases, where I already have a ticket open, I'm
            returning a call to the engineer working on my problem.  After
    	    I wait on the phone for 15 minutes and finally get thru, I'm told
            that the engineer is either on the phone or away from their
    	    desk. I'm told that they would update the ticket and append a
            'callback tag' to it.
    
    	    Does it sound feasible to create a DSN option for 'callback
    	    tags'?
    

re: "I was contacted by one of the VP's, and sat in his office where
we..."

Which VP? I'd like to know, on- or off-line.

Pete

The bottom line at the CSC is not enough people to answer calls. The
manpower has been cut to levels so that one absence or one long call
throws off the entire day. Not to mention the constant upper management
dream of having such a great database they can hire monkeys to read the
articles. They keep forgetting that someone has to write the articles.
And that takes experience, and experienced technical people are expensive.

As for the customer notes conferences. I wouldn't bother reading them.
The only notes are intro notes. Once I put the poem Ozymandias in just
to see if *anybody* was out there. The moderator did catch it so I know
she checks the file. 

And the issue here is not the tool. It's an offer that made no sense. 
The customers can *already* talk to each other. Via newsgroups that do
indeed have Deccies in them, via the DECUS notesfiles, and via E-mail.
Many of us in engineering type jobs also speak to customers and exchange
mail for field tests, web page comments, and electronic suggestions. 

The last big memo we got says that Copperman will be forming a group to
look into the problems. He could save his time and just ask the people
who work here. I have no idea why he is looking into MCS. One thing was
made clear however, customers want to use the *telephone*. They will 
use DSNlink/WIS as a backup or for non-immediate questions but what they
really want is a *person* who knows what they are doing. liesl

>>The bottom line at the CSC is not enough people to answer calls. 

I have no clue about your work but comment anyway. The problem could be 
more complex:

	o Productivity (tools, methods/workflow...)
	o Product set (focus...)
	o Product quality
	o Expectations

A few weeks ago I had needed for a customer an answer from one of our 
partner companies. After around 4 days pushing and pulling and them 
transferring me to their 'specialists' around the world I gave up. My
question by the way were pretty simple, e.g. about functions supported. 
If I had to wait 15 minutes and got an answer I would have perceived 
that as great service.

    r.-1
    
    Sorry to disagree with you but I think you missed the point...
    
    Having come fresh from a customer who waited for 45 minutes on hold for
    the call to be answered I can comfortably say Lisel has it right. After
    the customer waited for that long the call back from RDC took a
    relativly short time and was technically good. So in brief someone
    needs to:
    
    	ANSWER THE PHONE!!!
    
    Oddly enough for all the whining I've done I got a something in the
    mail discribing the problem and the things someone is doing to solve
    it. Help appears to be on its way. The only other question that
    customers bring up is if someone (at DEC) can't staff a phone bank what
    wonders are these people doing to make sure the technical staff which
    hopefully provides the solutions. 
    
    Fred

I waited 30 minutes to have a phone answered when I had to place a call for
our CC owned LPS40 that needed repaired.  Bad thing about it was the message
at the front end estimated a 15 minute wait.  Ha!

    When logging a hardware call I almost always use DSNLINK. It is
    very efficient and within a matter of a couple of minutes I have
    a log number. Of course then a tech has to be found to work the
    problem. That is another problem as there are not many of them
    left either.
    
    Jim C.
    

>>    When logging a hardware call I almost always use DSNLINK. It is

How does one do this?

    Perhaps someone from DSNLINK will chime in. In the meantime
    without getting into details check out DSNENG::DSNLINK.
    
    Jim C.
    

    re: .211
    
    When I read the Harry Copperman memo, it sounded like they were looking
    at rebuilding the remote sales support org that was torn apart a year
    of so ago. I don't think it has anything to do with the CSC and adding
    more people to it. Although, in the past, most of the remote sales
    support people did reside in the CSC, they were not part of the CSC.
    
    Brad
    

    Re: .106
    
    My Starion problem was finally fixed through the replacement of the
    motherboard as well as a new disk.  Just a little more than 5 weeks
    to fix a PC...the technicians (3 different ones came to do house
    calls) did what they could under the circumstances, and I cannot
    say anything bad about them....I am amazed at all the different
    calls/service situations they get involved with, and how few there
    really are.
    
    Mark
    

Thanks Jim, put me on the spot. :*) DSNLink can be used by any organization
that purchases a service contract. But I'm in engineering and haven't a
clue who handles this for internal groups. Back to you Jim, any idea how
your group got it's contract? I imagine that most CCS groups have them. liesl

    Well, it was a long time ago in which we were set up with access
    codes and the like. However, a local tech ought to be able to
    help or your contract administrator. Lastly, perhaps a call to,
    
    1-800-354-9000? ;=}
    
    I think there may even be a call tree selection for dsnlink. In
    any event, if you have a contract and get issued an access code
    and I believe an authorization code you can install dsnlink and
    away you go. 
    
    I hope this helps,
    
    Jim C.
    

    RE:  Long wait on CSC line
    
    What I *really* dislike is the 15 to 30 minute wait - then when
    somebody answers they give you about 3 seconds to respond before they
    hang up on you.  No time to turn the mute button off or pick up the
    phone.  Back in the queue for another half hour (1800 seconds) hoping
    you can respond in the 3 second window......

I've called the CSC a few times this week and have never waited what I would 
call an unreasonable amount of time (minutes). Actually, there one time I was 
on hold for 5 minutes or so while the phone-answerer tracked down the 
Manager-On-Duty. In fact, I was also able to reach the Specialist I needed to
con-call with a customer. Hopefully this is a sign that things are improving. 

regards,

Jim