Conference 7.286::digital

    You get what you measure...
    
    				-John
    
    P.S. I got the survey also and it certainly seemed biased to the
    "right" answer.  I said so on my form.
    
    

I didn't get one of these this time around.  I got one a couple of years
ago (at the beginning of the DMP demise through insane price hikes).  All
of the questions were of the "Do you still beat your wife" ilk, and not
surprisingly, the conclusions were that people were tending to pick HMOs
over DMP.  I sent a nice comment along asking if they thought we were stupid
or just mindless sheep, and never heard back.

j.

    I also got the survey and a good deal (maybe most) of the questions
    made no sense if you weren't in an HMO (I'm not).  Also they tended
    to ask questions about unimportant details (how long did it take the
    person answering to schedule the appointment) as opposed to the
    things that really matter.
    
    Larry
    

I did get a survey. Also noted the lack of an answer like "didn't require the
service" on some of the questions, or "Not Applicable".

So with my A&C materials at hand I just carefully drew in the appropriate box
to then circle with trusty #2 pencil. 

Yes it will skew the results, or it may even make then discard the survey,
but who cares. The powers that commissioned the survey will read the "correct"
answer no matter what.

/jon

A&C ArtsNCrafts

    i got the survey, too; in fact, it was the 2nd time in as many years
    that they have sent one to me. i beleive it is done by the university
    of iowa. 
    
    the questions are definately geared towards someone who is in an hmo,
    like me. 

    The survey is different from that last one, but it has many of the same
    questions. This is not surprising since the director of the survey is
    the same, having moved from HealthCare Research Systems to Coopers &
    Lybrand. 
    
    You find what you look for.

    I was notified that I would receive a survey, but haven't gotten it
    yet.  ?? Maybe next year...
    

I've gotten the be-on-the-lookout-for-it letter, but not the survey. I think
what they need in addition to "Never attempted to use service" is "Not used
enough to judge". Our family has gotten one referral (accomplished by changing
PCP ;) and had an emergency service, but I would hardly use that slim experience
to form an opinion and extrapolate a trend. Our experience was satisfactory, but
I would hesitate to say that the system is totally satisfactory based on it. It
sounds like that would be the conclusion of the survey, though. 

	Maybe the best thing to do is for everyone to reply in the 
	negative for all answers except one random positive answer.
	That should stir the pot a little 8*).

    you're just another statistical category:  "disgruntled employees that
    take it out on the survey taker"
    
    It would be interesting to see the % of such for each company
    represented, but I do not believe you are sending a message to anyone.
    
    Mark

  I agree with most of the previous replies that this survey is rigged to make
HMOs look good, which is the conclusion Digital would like to draw.
  I also suspect that any material in the comments section other than your
choice of a health service you would like your health insurance/HMO to cover
will go straight into the trash can.
  I also got a survey from my HMO (HCHP) earlier this year and I had the same
feeling about it. For one thing, it was done too early in the year to get valid
info from people who had just changed over to HCHP. Same problem: How do you
respond to questions like "How do you feel about your primary care physician?"
if you haven't had an appointment with him/her yet?

    This survey assumes that all of your needed services are covered by the
    HMO. I kept looking for the question that asked about services outside
    my HMO (e.g. chiropractic) and finally wrote it in the comment section.
    

    
    
    The new weekly total for John Hancock where I am (Maryland) is $175. 
    That doesn't include the $250 copayment per person.  
    
    Mike

Hey, I just got my "You are one of the chosen few" messages as well.  So let
me ask, is EVERYONE one of the chosen few?  Or did they just send it out to
the readers of this conference ;-)?

j.

    Walt,
    
    You hit my consternation regarding the survey right on the head.
    The survey did not ask the right questions. I am very dissatisified
    with my HMO, but I still have my original doctor who was kind enough
    to let me utilize my HMO. My doctor is good, but the HMO is terrible.
    No questions on the survey allowed a distinction between the two.
    
    I too debated about dumping the survey, but decided against it and
    filled out most everything fair to poor. 
    
    Bottom line is that nothing will change. We will still have the "rock
    and the hard place" choice of high cost and many health choices
    (Digital Plans 1 & 2 and Digital Elect) or low cost no health choices
    thru HMOs.
    
    There are many good HMOs in and around major metro areas particularly
    when they are affiliated with Universities. But when you are away from
    the metro areas, the quality of health care choices thru HMOs appears
    to fall off dramatically. At least that is what I am hearing from other
    midwest HMO partipants and what I am experiencing. The survey will not
    bear this out.
    
    Les

    
    	The survey people left me off the list :-)
    
    	I believe in conspiracies ;-)
    
    	Draw your own conclusions....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk
    
    
    		PS- My HMO is average for me. Very good for my wife and
    		    children. Think it maybe the doctor you get. So shop
    		    around.

    Simple answer if you do not like your present coverage..change!
    
    I find my present HMO to cover all my needs both basic and Ver
    expensive long term!
    
    Put some time and effort into checking out what is offered. I change
    from BC/BS way back and haven't had one complaint.
    
    The plan owes me nothing, but I can tell you it certainly came through
    when needed!
    
    Amen!

    re: .17
    
    >Simple answer if you do not like your present coverage..change!
    
    I think you are falling into the GMA-centric view of the world trap.
    
    In all cases here, I'm using family rates, rather than individual.
    
    I suspect you have 12 choices for your health care, excluding the
    opt-out option, with a fair range of prices from < $10/week, a few in
    the $20's and $30's, and so on, up to about $65/week.
    
    In a major metropolitan area with a population of 2+ million people,
    (Dallas/Ft. Worth) Digital claims that there are only TWO HMOs that
    meet their standards.  One is a clinic-based HMO and after talking with
    the only participant I could find in the past 2 years, they have
    confirmed my worst fears about clinic based HMO's.  The other HMO,
    which is also the basis for the HMO-Elect plan in this area, is only
    average.  Unfortunately, this HMO's cost is DOUBLING for the second
    year in a row.
    
    Here's my choices:
    
    Clinic-based HMO		$  9/week
    HMO				$ 75/week
    HMO Elect			$ 86/week
    DMP 1			$156/week
    DMP 2			$175/week
    
    Bob

    re:-1
    
    It looks as if opt-out may be your best option... HMO elect is $ 36
    per week in Maryland.

    re: .19
    
    Opt-out is not an option for me.
    
    Bob

>              <<< Note 4209.17 by STOWOA::CCALCAGNI "A.F.F.A." >>>
>                    -< 100% satisfied! Pilgrim Health HMO >-
>    .....
>    The plan owes me nothing, but I can tell you it certainly came through
>    when needed!

"The plan owes me nothing..."?  What kind of comment is that?
You are paying for medical coverage through your efforts, even if your
employer is actually paying the bills.
So doesn't the plan owe you "to come through when needed?"

- tom]

re: 18

I think Bob has correctly pointed out that the quality of our health care 
choices depends very much on where you are located.  The greater-Maynard 
area appears to have many choices.  Like Bob, I'm in Dallas and the choices 
Digital offers are poor.  If you live in Dallas and have children in 
college, you only have four choices:

	Clinic-based HMO	$  9/week (reportedly not good)
	DMP 1			$156/week
	DMP 2			$175/week
	Opt Out

The HMO and HMO Elect options won't cover any dependents over 18, even if 
they are in still in school.

Mike

    -2
    
    What I had meant to say, compared to what I had paid and Digital too is
    nothing compared to the medical expenses my HMO paid.
    
    Cal

    I also received the survey but most of the questions were not
    applicable to me. My conclusion was that the questionnare was designed
    only for people with a need to frequently visit their doctor.

    - Bob

My wife is more critical of health care received.  She always makes it a point
to fill these out.

After looking at the survey, she threw it out, remarking, "It's very obvious
they're not going to listen to what you have to say."

Grahame

    I actually spoke to the person who put together the survey
    yesterday.  It was a pretty amazing experience.  For example, I
    brought up the point about 4 possible favorable responses to 1
    possible unfavorable response, and he said he considers even
    "excellent" to be an unfavorable response, because "we always want
    to do better."  Apparently this program is being run by inhabitants of
    the planet Xenon.
    
    They do, however, apparently read "written in answers", so if I ever
    got one of these surveys myself (like, they really are going to send
    one to me now :-) I'd feel free to ink in "lousy" boxes.  It certainly
    won't change anything, but at least they couldn't come out with this
    rubbish about high satisfaction levels.  Well, I guess they could, if
    they think excellent means unsatisfactory, who knows what they think
    lousy means.
    
               

    re: .26
    
    >brought up the point about 4 possible favorable responses to 1
    >possible unfavorable response, and he said he considers even
    >"excellent" to be an unfavorable response, because "we always want
    >to do better."  Apparently this program is being run by inhabitants of
    
    And Digital actually pays someone to do this????
    
    .-afew's wife was right, throw them in the wastebasket, they don't mean
    a thing.
    
    Bob
    

    we probably will hire a new VP just to own this survey.....

    what got a good chuckle out of me the other day was that i did toss the
    original survey....then i got a postcard in the mail saying if i did
    not get a survey i should call the number listed and they would provide
    me with one .... NOT !
    

    I think any "survey" that is a serious one would at least supply a
    postage paid return envelope.
    
    
    tony

    For what it is worth there was a reply envelope, it just was highly
    disguised that it was postage paid, nothing in the upper right like
    most pre-paid, but smack dap in the center.
    
    I realizae gather data is difficult but the 4 to 1 ratio indicates that
    someone in charge thinks every thing is great and that no one is
    unhappy, NOT.

    re: postage 
    
    am I the only one who missed this?  
    
    color me stupid!
    
    tony

    Perhaps this is part of the survey.  This way, they can group folks
    accordingly ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

    My postman refused to take the survey.  He left it in the mailbox
    with a circle in the upper right hand corner!  If it's postage paid
    it's not obvious even to the postoffice.

Well, I mailed mine out and it hasn't been returned yet.  I have started seeing
a few post-paid envelopes missing the traditional bars.

				Steve

  Mine has not been returned either.  I dropped it off at a post office
  between home and work so they couldn't have known where to return it if
  they didn't accept it.

  Hmmm.  Maybe it went into the circular letter box.

  	mikeP

    I thought the Post Office threw away mail sent "without postage."
    

    re: .38
    
    No, it is supposed to be returned to the sender for proper postage.
    
    Bob

re .38, .39

  Since I didn't put a return address it would not have been returned.

                 circular mail box == circular file == trash

    re: .40
    
    I was simply documenting the proper behaviour for .38, not stating that
    mail with no return address would magically find its way back to the
    sender.  In that case, it would go into the dead letter office for
    however many years are required and then it would be opened.
    
    Bob

    The good news:
    After many complaints, the costs for the Dallas area have been adjusted
    downward.  The new rates are:
    
    			Individual	Family
    	Cigna		$14.82		$46.18
    	Cigna Elect	$18.80		$56.81
    	Kaiser		$ 2.00		$ 9.29
    
    The bad news:
    U.S. Benfits still doesn't get it.  They mentioned that they were going
    look at getting Kaiser to do the HMO Elect for 1997.  I don't want
    Kaiser to do the HMO Elect - I want them to add at least two of the
    three other major Dallas HMO providers to our plan.  Two providers
    doesn't cut it.
    
    The worse news:
    At the bottom of the message sent by U.S. Benefits was the following
    statement, "Digital believes that Kaiser is a quality alternative that
    should also be evaluated and considered by employees as their health
    care provider..."
    
    Two days after I received this message, one of the local TV news
    broadcasts had a multi-part series on HMOs in the Dallas area.  It
    helped me understand what I would be getting if I chose this 'quality
    alternative'.  I would be joining an HMO with EIGHT times more wrongful
    death suits filed against it than any other HMO in the Dallas area.  I
    would be joining the ONLY plan in Dallas that is experiencing a net
    membership DECREASE.  I would be joining an HMO that has a physician
    turnover rate more than TWICE the average rate in Dallas.  I guess we
    know part of the reason why the other HMO choices are 5 - 7 times as
    exepnsive as the 'quality alternative'.
    
    Bob
    

    Re: .42
    
    There were rumblings on our local news (San Francisco area)
    about a possible strike by Kaiser employees here.  I may
    be wrong, but my impression is that there have been other
    such strikes against Kaiser in the past few years.  Sounds like 
    great HMO, not.
    

    Well, I got the survey; of course I've been a DMP2 member 15 of my
    16 years with Digital!!
    
    I opted out of JH when HMOs were first introduced in Atlanta; I
    bought the "easy to get appointment, affordable health care" propa-
    ganda.....what a joke.  I went back to JH the following year (this
    occurred almost 10 years ago).  How in the heck am I supposed to
    fill out the survey when the HMO I did use so long ago isn't even
    an option any longer?
    
    Now I won't have a choice.  I find it odd (same as Ainsley) that
    a city the size of metro Atlanta can't offer more options.  Based
    on what I've seen my co-workers going through just to get an 
    appointment with Kaiser, it will be a snowy day in you-know-where
    before I sign up with them.  Fellow employees who went with Aetna
    Health Plan last year seem to be the most satisfied group.  Seeing my
    neurosurgeon listed as one of Aetna's referral specialists clinched it
    for me.  There are other HMOs in the area; I just find it difficult
    to believe that only two "met Digital's standards" whatever those
    standards are.
    
    
    

    Re: .44 & others

>   Now I won't have a choice.  I find it odd (same as Ainsley) that
>   a city the size of metro Atlanta can't offer more options.  ...

    Me too.  In the close to seven years I've been here in the Seattle
    area, the choices have always been:

      1) HMO (Group Health Cooperative)
      2) HMO Elect (Group Health Cooperative)
      3) DMP 1
      4) DMP 2
      5) Opt out

    For 1997 this looks to be:

      1) HMO (Group Health Cooperative)
      2) HMO Elect (Group Health Cooperative)
      3) Opt out

    Some choices.  FWIW, last spring my wife worked part time as an
    Instructional Assistant in the local school district and had no
    less than 14 different plans to choose from.

    Bob

I live in a rural area of Massachusetts.  I have 12 options.  Interestingly
enough, the rural area I live in is right near Maynard (.5 houses away, to
be exact).  Think these decisions are being made by people who need to hit
the road a bit more?  Or at least hear from people who don't live in GMA?
I doubt strongly that central Massachusetts has more options that meet
Digital's rigid quality maximum standards than places like Dallas, Seattle,
or Atlanta.

j.

>    For 1997 this looks to be:
>
>      1) HMO (Group Health Cooperative)
>      2) HMO Elect (Group Health Cooperative)
>      3) Opt out

Even today, if you pick HMO Elect and _always_ go outside the HMO, you'll
probably save money.  The DMP premiums are so astronomical that the
difference in premiums more than makes up for the difference in deductable
and co-payment.

>I doubt strongly that central Massachusetts has more options that meet
>Digital's rigid quality maximum standards than places like Dallas, Seattle,
>or Atlanta.

Just what exactly are Digital's rigid quality standards for health care?
I would prefer that they give me the option of selecting which health care 
plan meets MY quality standards rather than the other way around.  

Fortunately for me I'm able to opt-out because my husband has a wide range
of health care options through his employer... like Prudential, Aetna, Sanus,
Harris Methodist, Scott & White, PCA Health Plan, etc.  The funny thing
though is that his employer doesn't offer Kiaser or Cigna as options... humm..
Lucky for me that Texas Utilities has much lower standards then Digital :-).
Not to mention that the price is right with the most expensive plan costing
$47/month for a family of 3 or more.

lkp

>I doubt strongly that central Massachusetts has more options that meet
>Digital's rigid quality maximum standards than places like Dallas, Seattle,
>or Atlanta.

HMOs have been around longer and have greater participation in MA than
elsewhere.

    Re .46:
    
    Rural area near Maynard?  Where?
    
    I thought there were no rural areas in Massachusetts east of the
    Connecticut River...

    Nay, nay.  Massachusetts is mostly rural. Drive from Boston west.
    nothing but trees......
    
    But there is precious little public land and nearly every spec of what
    you see is owned and settled. Just not cleared.....
    
    Used to be largely agri land until after world war II. Then the land went 
    fallow and reforested over time. Pictures from my childhood show nary a 
    tree in sight. (1950ish) Lots of fields, farms though

Boy, you don't put in those silly smiley faces and people take you
seriously.

1) Digital's "quality standards" seem to be a ceiling rather than a floor
(i.e. can't be any better than x)

2) I live in Stow.  Not rural, really, but compared to Dallas, Atlanta, or
Seattle it is.  Tongue was firmly planted in cheek.

j.

    re: .49
    
    .48 just listed several other ones available in the Dallas area and I
    can add Prudential, MetLife, and Humana to that list.
    
    Bob

re .43
    
>    There were rumblings on our local news (San Francisco area)
>    about a possible strike by Kaiser employees here.  I may
>    be wrong, but my impression is that there have been other
>    such strikes against Kaiser in the past few years.  Sounds like 
>    great HMO, not.
    
No, there was no strike.  A couple of years ago when the nurses were 
renegotiating their contract, a strike was possible if they could not 
come to an agreement with management.  During any negotiations, a strike 
is always possible, but of course the media blew this up out of proportion.
Some people will always hate Kaiser; others love it.

				SQ

    Since it's a confidential survey i crossed out my number on the back
    page and guess what, I just got another survey saying they didn't
    receive my survey
    
    GEE I WONDER HOW THEY KNOW I DIDN'T SEND BACK MY SURVEY
    
    BIG BROTHER MUST BE WATCHING
    
    SCOTT

    re:survey number
    
    	It probably helps to be able to tie demographics to the survey
    results (i.e. women in N.E. between 30-40 feel X about X). Yes, they 
    probably can tie that number back to someones name if they wanted to, 
    but then, how many people that sent the survey back would really care 
    if they did.
    
    	Ray