Conference 7.286::digital

    Correction to point #3 in the base note:
    
    Yep, Digital does indeed have space in the CompuServe Electronic Mall
    (this has been discussed in the IBMPC-92 conference).  However,
    customers CANNOT order products through CompuServe--yet.  At present,
    they are: 
    
    1.  Being referred to 1-800-PCBYDEC to place orders.
    2.  Being referred to our Electronic Connection (Electronic Store)
    3.  Asked to leave their name, etc. if they want to receive a catalog
    4.  Given the option of trading mail messages with the Desktop Direct
        folks.
    
    One unresolved nit is that CompuServe has many customers from outside
    the US.  We need to give them a non-800 telephone number.
    
    Chet

    Forgot to add that we had over 60 catalog requests through CompuServe
    before we even went "live" with the full complement of screens and
    menus.  Not bad.  On the other hand, CompuServe has over 1 _million_
    subscribers--good potential market.
    
    Chet

>    Yep, Digital does indeed have space in the CompuServe Electronic Mall
>    (this has been discussed in the IBMPC-92 conference).  However,
>    customers CANNOT order products through CompuServe--yet. 

I don't think that's what the ad says. It's a pity if everything isn't yet
fully online.

>    One unresolved nit is that CompuServe has many customers from outside
>    the US.  We need to give them a non-800 telephone number.
    
CIS has a lot of access numbers outside the US. If the Mall connection works
properly the presence or absence of an 800 number is moot; all communication
is done through CIS. I live in France, connect through London (!) and have
ordered stuff from the MacZone and the "Best of GO GRAPHICS" folks. I intend
using the Mall more in the future. 

The question of 800 numbers is a sore point with non-US folks, regardless of
the company involved. I have seen at least one advert in MacWorld which
welcomed international orders but only gave an 800 number... Make sure that
they give both a toll number *and* a FAX number. Some people are more
comfortable looking up information via CIS and then sending the actual order
by FAX once they have mulled it over.

Now... for comparison and as a benchmark for those setting this thing up... I
placed my first MacZone order at around 11pm French time on a Saturday, paying
by AmEx. It was on my desk in Ferney at 10am Monday morning. Another order took
four days; it got held up in Paris while Customs asked me if it was a personal
or corporate import. Still took less than a week, though. BOG arrived by
airmail in five days. *That* is the level of service CIS members will expect
from Digital. 

Gavin

>                      <<< Note 2060.1 by AIMHI::BOWLES >>>

>   One unresolved nit is that CompuServe has many customers from outside
>   the US.  We need to give them a non-800 telephone number.
 
Oh no you don't.

You need to give them an 0800 number which can be dialled from anywhere in
the world. That way the non-US customers won't resent paying a charge.
(and subsidising the US customers). Such numbers already exist.

Also, you need to use an actual number rather than 800-ABC-DEFG
as most countries don't have letters on their telephones. I live in
the UK and have a phone with letters, but it is very much the exception.

Craig

    Quoting from the ad which appeared on page 34 of the August, 
    1992 issue of _CompuServe_ magazine:
    
    "Now you can browse through products, see special offers, order 
    Desktop Direct Catalogs, get technical specs - even correspond 
    with Desktop Direct - all by dialing into Desktop Direct from 
    Digital's (TM) storefront on the electronic mall.  Just type 
    GO DD." 
    
    Note that the ad did NOT say you could order the product--yet.
    Rather the ad said "To place your order, dial into Digital's Electronic
    Connection today at 1-800-234-1998. Or call 1-800-PCBYDEC
    (1-800-722-9332) to order or for technical information,"
    
    Chet

Re: .5

You're right. I reread it last night, too. However, they broke the first law of
advertising; I remembered the ad but got the wrong message. You had to read the
whole ad to find the "how to order" bit. 

So, when *will* people be able to order by typing GO DD?

Gavin

    The discussion on 800 numbers presupposes that it is the intention for
    DESKTOP DIRECT (US) to take direct dollar orders from around the world
    and ship direct. (By passing local direct sales groups, export
    licensing, support implications, US only products eg modems..etc)
    
    Seems to be great for the customers as long as these issues have been
    addressed and we do actually give a clean quality service. 
    
    Is this the case ?
    
    

    .7 has it exactly right.  There are lots of international business
    issues which need to be resolved before Desktop Direct can process
    orders from buyers outside the U.S.  I'm told we are close to having
    the Ts & Cs in place to handle Canada and Mexico.  Other countries will
    take longer.  Sometimes these issues can get so complex, it seems like
    it would be easier to try to solve an easy problem like world hunger.
    
    Chet

    What would the advantages (for us, and the customer) be if, say, German
    customers would be served out of the US? Technically, it would be no
    problem to have a 0130 number which is forwarded to US.

The 1st step is replacing 1-800-PC-BY-DEC with a number a non-US-resident 
with no AT&T, Sprint or whatever calling/credit card (or phone companies
that can handle this without AT&T, etc. cards) can call. CompuServe and 
fax access isn't enough (though also a requirement).

And getting there from Europe, Asia, Australia, wherever, of course, raises 
the issue that there are PC Products by Digital not sold nor serviced in 
e.g. Europe (and vice versa - not that US customer are necessarily loosing
anything, but... ;-)

Are the PC, perhipheral power supplies autosensing (to suit 220V, etc.)? 

And can one specify non-US power cords?

There is also the issue with Northern and Southern hemisphere monitors to
consider, isn't there? 

And how about obtaining European keyboards?

Etc., etc.,...

Of course, usually today, if an European orders PC's or whatever by mail 
from an US company, he/she will not necessarily be able to get European 
keyboards, guaranteed local service, etc. 

The issue: Do we have to act just as insensitively as the average US 
mailorder company selling to Europe? Can't we do better with a presence 
in more than 80 countries? At least we could try!

In other words: If I in Europe ordered a PC from Digital in the U.S.
through PC-BY-DEC, I'd like to be able to get my European keyboard,
power cord or whatever... Perhaps even European versions of the
applications?

...petri

...this is, you know, something that'll be thought of by many (if not all ;-)
non-US sales/marketing organizations as invading their turf.

I.e. instead of paying high non-US prices for Digital PC's, customers pay
low(er) US prices when they bypass the local sales and order from the US
by mail (and get equipment, software that may not be available from
Digital locally in that particular geography).

I'd like to see how this is handled (if handled at all).

...petri

>The issue: Do we have to act just as insensitively as the average US 
>mailorder company selling to Europe? Can't we do better with a presence 
>in more than 80 countries? At least we could try!

I was thinking about this last night. With the vast internal network available
to Digital, it surely shouldn't be too difficult (at least technically) to
route the order automatically to the correct country office for local
processing. The customer need never know and there is no problem with
servicing, keyboards and so on. The ordering system just has to list what is
available and at what price; the customer then selects what he/she wants and
away it goes. If the order is for a Swedish keyboard with a French version of
the software, what do we care? 

As for power supplies, any PC that isn't auto-sensing needs redesigning.

US mail order companies seem to have a far better grasp of the international
market than you give them credit for. It is quicker and cheaper for me to order
stuff from the US than from Paris... 

Gavin

Another topic with a curious cooincidence of note number and title... '2060',
a flavor of DECsystem 20, still a workhorse at CompuServe (running TOPS-10
operating system).

Lee

>              <<< Note 2060.0 by RUTILE::WYNFORD "Dorn a Loon" >>>
>                     -< Digital, CompuServe and Good News >-

>3. The August issue of CompuServe Magazine has a couple of adverts for
>   Digital's PC business. Yup, you can now order online through CompuServe.
>   This is a good move in itself, given the size and scope of CIS's membership.
>   It's even better when you consider the size of market it can open up.

Er, wouldn't the GOOD NEWS be if Digital was actually doing the
sort of thing that CompuServe is doing? We have the expertise and
the technology don't we?

Still I guess the reason is that it isn't our line of work - it's
too profitable.

	Craig

>Er, wouldn't the GOOD NEWS be if Digital was actually doing the
>sort of thing that CompuServe is doing? We have the expertise and
>the technology don't we?

We have the technology. And we have the expertise to set up a network. But there
is a lot more to what CompuServe is doing then just setting up a network. I'm
not sure we have the expertise to do that.

>Still I guess the reason is that it isn't our line of work - it's
>too profitable.

Actually what I last read was that it wasn't all that profitable. It may even
lose money if it were not using infastructure built for other more comercial
parts of CompuServes business.

			Alfred

    I might be wrong, but why not push our DSNlink product more?
    If DSNlink isn't as complete as what Compuserve offers, make DSNlink
    more robust.  Add more customer accessible tools to DSNlink, kind of
    like our VTX system here.  Rather than have our SW engineers sit on 
    Compuserve, why not tell the customers to access DSNlink to address or 
    query the engineers here?  Why not price DSNlink competivly to compete with
    Compuserve.  Does DEC get royalties for Compuserve business, or do
    we pay compuserve for the "priviledge" to be on their board?  Why not
    put a pointer on Compuserve and say "For complete info on DEC
    products, services... the new number is 800-CALLDEC".  We already
    have this stuff.
    
    Mike 

    
    re: .13 et al, CompuServe does NOT run. TOPS-10.  They took the TOPS
    O.S. and modified it substantially so TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 software no
    longer runs on it.  Also CompuServe, like many customers, was left out
    in the cold when DEC decided to have only one (1) operating system and
    architecture (VAX) and orphaned all of the DECSYSTEM customers when
    they had no VAX systems which could even come close to their KL systems
    in performance.  Most of the machines which are in CompuServe now, I
    suspect, are from a company called Systems Concepts which makes (made?)
    a DECSYSTEM clone which is faster and more efficient.
    
    Rich Martin (a former CompuServe employee)

One of the major advantages over CompuServe is that "everybody" is there
(at least every single vendor in the PC-arena that amounts to anything).

In other words, on CompuServe it is so easy to talk to "all" of the
vendors and in that sense DSNlink can't compete (the customers would
still have to have a CompuServe account to talk to the others).

...petri

N.B. And to make DSNlink useful, it'd have to be accessible from the
     desktop. Logging into VMS systems isn't a solution; DOS/Windows,
     Mac, OS/2, UNIX access would be required. We don't even have
     any comparable DSNlink access from ULTRIX systems (what there is
     is far from comparable in usefulness to what's on VMS, and there's
     much to be desired in the VMS implementation as well).
     

Compuserve has actually been the primary absorbtion mechanism for KL10s
being retired by other companies.

The whole point about Compuserve is that it is the Defacto Standard for
support for PC software.  Most of the companies that offer their own BBS
systems for support ALSO support their software through a Compuserve
Forum.  The customer expectation has become that quality software vendors
provide support through Compuserve.

So, DSNlink is not a substitute for Compuserve support though it may be
an alternative for some kinds of customers.

Hal

    
    I need to get a compuserve account for a member of my group. I was
    wondering if you could tell me how to go about doing so, and have it
    charged to the CC:
    
    The notes in here are all 3yrs old, and I thought there might me a new
    way or new #
    
    Thanks,
    
    Louisa

    You could try asking in NOTED::COMPUSERVE
    
    Cheers, Laurie.