Conference 7.286::digital

    I'd say "get used to it".  Its been that way for at least a year.
    There's probably a previous note about it, but I didn't look...
    
    I've heard several conflicting reports as to why...  One is that
    the IRS changed their rules.  Another is that Digital got slapped
    on the hand for playing with the numbers and this is a form of
    probation.  You can make up your guesses as well...
    
    Yep, it was real fun to write a note about using the pay toilet last
    time I was in London.
    
    				-John

    FWIW: The 'receipts for each penney' craze seems to be going like
    wildfire in certain orgs, while not in others.  I don't know if it is a
    corporate directive that some groups have found a way around, or an
    org-based nightmare which torments only selected groups of victims.

> receipts are required for everything. In the case of tolls or meals
> from vending machines you must write a note explaining the expense.

  You mean they don't make you go thru the exact change lane and get a receipt
from the toll taker?    

Tom

I think as long as the expected savings exceeds the cost of doing the 
vouchers you will see the been counters win.

I realized you can't fight them.  So you reflect what it takes you to do
the expenses. If you are making money.  Don't take your personal time to 
do expenses, but do it on work time.  Make sure that you account for that 
the time it takes to do a voucher in real time on your weekly time report.

I just did some expenses that took me about 3 hours to sort out all the
receipts especially the 24 meal ones. I will report 3 hours of my 40 for
expenses.  

I really don't think that there is a clue among the people who implemented
the policy on how long it takes to do a voucher, to keep track of all the
receipts, in fact I think they are just clueless(sanitized version) all 
together. Also, the time it takes the person(s) checking the receipts on the
vouchers travels to approval.

Tony

ps.  Remember your time is not important so skip the exact change line for
     .20 on the Bee Bine and get into the receipt line and wait 10 or so
     minutes.  You get paid either way and hey you can save .20 by getting
     that receipt.  It makes sense when you think about it ...yeah sure...  

 SEE:  VTX ORANGEBOOK   Section 5.11. read it and if you have any questions
talk to your manager.

    The cost of time spent doing receipts has risen dramatically.  This, I
    believe, is mainly an intangible, as it's only reported locally.  The
    company's overall expenses have dropped fairly drastically, if memory
    serves me.  
    
    I tend to think us worker bees in the field are bearing the brunt for
    the sins of others who abused the old expense program heavily, but I'm
    not sure.  It *does* take forever to file an expense report nowadays,
    even using the EXPENSE program.  I, too, report it as ADMIN time.
    
    The government uses a simple formula, wherein you get per diem and
    spend it as you will.  This appears to be a far simpler method, less
    reporting, etc.  Wish we could do the same.
    
    								Tex

ref: see orangebook

	Wow, how silly of me. I would have neve thought of it.
	
	So, how is this going to shorten the time to do my voucher.

	I even use the Windows program.

		No matter what you do it still takes MY time
		to mark each little receipt, that is not printed
		with date, time, restaurant, b,l, or d and amount.
		Sort and enter them. Along with the myriad of other
		recpts

	Ref: Tex		

	He is right why not a per diem.  Hotel+Meal cost for area.
	Simple.


	I guess .-2 doesn't travel or is high enough to not to have to sweat
	the details.

	t...

  The only problem with Per Diem is that Digital is likely to
  establish the Travel Per Diems using the same contractors and
  procedures as they use to establish the Dentl Care "Reasonable
  and Customary" charges.

  "What do you mean you can't afford to stay in New York City on
  $49.75/day? It's our Reasonable and Customary, err, I mean Per
  Diem rate!"
                                   Atlant

Windows program?

Please elaborate.  We use a program on the vax for preparing vouchers.

Limited flexibility and ease of use.  

Please let us know if there is an "approved" windows version available.
I seems like it's got to be a little easier to use.

Ken

Re 4261.4:

> I think as long as the expected savings exceeds the cost of doing the
> vouchers you will see the been counters win.

That's "the cost TO THE BEAN COUNTERS of YOUR doing the vouchers."

___Pete

think of it as part of the "accountant's full employment act of 1995".
they get something to do, reviewing forms.  they get to figure out
how to show there was a savings. they show there was a savings.
the next stupidity will be even easier to sell.

no, we do not need a rathole to list the stupid possibilities.
someone might not notice the satire.

ref: Expense exe for Windows

	see GUIDUK::Expense  notes file.

	There is one for Alpha/NT and I/NT.

	

re: .4  Obivously someone who has travled quite a bit    

re: .5  Doesn't have a clue.

re: .6 >> company's overall expenses have dropped fairly drastically, if memory
       >> serves me.
	Maybe that's because there aren't that many people left to
	take business trips.


I would love to see a per diem system implemented. I'm positive that
the current system does not save DIGITAL money. (RE: .4  who now
fills out expense reports instead of billing customer at $125. per/hour)


I can only hope that someone, with enough power, is looking into this.



signed,
 
"Frustrated in Florida"

 
    

       I agree, we need a change to per-diem, then we can focus
       on the exceptions, rather than everyone. It is time these
       rules were made with the "Traveler" in mind not the Travel Agencey,
       or Visa, (both outsiders). I am not sure how we are saving money,
       my Flights to Boston have increased to nearly $500, and that is
       the set price we pay no matter how early one books. We need to
       redo the Travel Policy.  

    I agree, I can (if Digital would allow) fly from Atlanta to Boston
    (direct) roundtrip for something like $184 on valu-jet. But it's not an
    approved carrier (they don't pay travel agency commisions). So I am
    forced to fly all over the east coast on Continental changing planes in
    Cleveland or Newark for $389.
    
    The problem is we don't have consistancy no matter how much we talk
    about it. I had to go to Ft. Lauderdale on a business trip and I could
    not find a hotel at the Digital rate. To get a hotel with a Digital
    rate I would to have had to commute 30 miles and for $20 over the non
    findable limit I got next door the the customer site.
    
    Common sense seems to be the loser.

    >I had to go to Ft. Lauderdale on a business trip and I could not find a
    >hotel at the Digital rate. To get a hotel with a Digital rate I would
    >to have had to commute 30 miles and for $20 over the non findable limit
    >I got next door the the customer site.
    
    Well...I have been working in Ft. Lauderdale for the last month for
    Citicorp and have a hotel next door to the facility for $6.00 over the
    approved rate (this is using Citicorp rates) and I got "hassled".  As
    above mentioned there is only one "approved" place and it is a distance
    from the facility.  If the hassles and bulls**t keeps up, I will be
    doing everything in my power to avoid traveling. As far as per deim,
    I've just spent 2 hours filling out my expense reports and have
    reported it as "admin" time at a loss to the company of $140/hour that
    I could be delivering to the customer.  I will continue to do this
    until this ***INSANE*** expense policy is revised.  And when/if my
    Visa is revoked because of "hassles" from mgmt. I will demand a cash
    advance for hotel/meals prior to travel.
    
    And I'm entering this note during my vacation time...don't get me
    started on vacation BS.
    
    John

    -1
    
    Don't worry, my friend.  I heard that there's an executive search going
    on for a VP, Expense Simplification Technology.  

RE: .17

	Ahhh.. Now I can sleep tonight.. (and do MY expenses tomorrow)

							mike

    
    I'm for *simplifying* the Digital bureaucracy, and then we can have
    a per diem with all the $$$$ we'll save...
    
    Now do not get me started on the $.225 a mile for your car....
    
    		the Greyhawk

re: " ... $.225 a mile for your car...."

That's one of the few remaining pieces left of the "old Digital". I
vote to freeze it there forever (unless someone already *has*)

Hi Tom.

    Don't be too enthusiastic in wanting a per-diem.
    
    We have just had that introduced in Asia-Pacific.  It is mandatory, not
    optional.  It covers personal meals, gratuities, bottled water, local
    phone calls, currency exchange fees.  Hotels, taxi etc are still claimable
    separately.
    
    Some examples of how much you lose compared to the old VTX guidlines.
    
    City		Per-Diem Rate		VTX Guideline
    Sydney, Australia	A$55			A$71.12
    Hong Kong		HK$470			HK$622.80
    Tokyo, Japan	Y$9300			Y$12395
    Boston, USA		US$35			$47
    
    Basically, Asia Pacific employees are now expected to spend 75% of what
    was considered a reasonable guideline previously.
    
    regs
    Warren

    re: -1
    
    Your point is well taken, but speaking from my personal experience (I 
    just spent approximately 7 months in Singapore - in "business trip"
    increments), I would have made out much better (easier?) with a per
    diem. 
    
    Many groups in the U.S. have instituted policies beyond the Corporate
    policy and require a receipt for any expense, or an individual
    exception for each instance (statement of denial that a receipt was not
    available, or it was lost, or ???).  This includes ALL miscellaneous 
    expenses.
    
    But back to the per diem, go to a food court (or the customer's
    cafateria) for a $3.50 meal each day rather than a restauraunt for 
    $15.00 (with receipt) and fight the system.  No thanks.  Just take 
    the hour and a half for lunch rather than 20-30 minutes (the site was 
    about 20 miles from any decent restaurants - i.e those which provided
    a receipt) and comply with policy.  Sounds like the kind of behavior 
    I would wnat to reinforce if I were a senior manager - NOT.
    
       

    I'll take per diem, as long as it's comparable.  Our current expense
    guidelines per city are based on the "average" for that city, and
    compose our absolute ceiling.  I'd even take a buck or two knocked off
    that, if it meant no more endless hours of reporting, going out of the
    way to comply with policy, etc. 
    
    It'd not only do away with all the bean-counter fixated stuff, it'd
    enable us to quote a total price up-front to our clients, s'long as we
    knew the hotel, plane, and car rates.
    
    								Tex

    As one of the bean counters who ask all those questions about your
    expense reports, I am working on changes to 5.11 with the Corporate
    folks. Maybe we can get some changes made this time.
    
    Regards,

    re: .22
    
    <Your point is well taken, but speaking from my personal experience (I 
    <just spent approximately 7 months in Singapore - in "business trip"
    <increments), I would have made out much better (easier?) with a per
    <diem. 	  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    yes... but would Digital have made out much better?
    
    tony
    

    In this particular case, no they would not have.  Since I paid for an
    average of two meals a day out of my own pocket (I didn't want to waste 
    the time going to a establishment that would provide a receipt) and didn't
    have a burning desire for either myself or mu organization to get the
    60-75 "execptions" signed, Digital made out on both ends.  They didn't
    have to pay full expenses, and I still worked the extra hours at the
    customer site.  But I won't in the future.
    
    
     

       	Per diem was common in the field when I went to training. Last I knew, 
    that was still an option, but only for that particular purpose. I never 
    could get an answer, other than "It's against company policy", as to why 
    that couldn't be an option for all travel.

    	Perhaps Digital receives some sort of rebate (kick-back) for the
    use of the Corporate Visa card. A vendor that accepts Visa usually has 
    to pay a certain % of the purchase back to Visa. Last I knew, 4% was 
    typical. 

    	Since Digital's going to pay for air fare, meals, car, and hotel
    anyway, using the Visa would be more desirable for the company if they
    did get a rebate. It would certainly explain why the company would hold
    so steadfast to a seemingly wasteful and painful expense policy.
    
    	Aside from this, someone mentioned that Digital got in trouble with
    the IRS over expenses. This could be another possibility. In any event,
    it seems the real answer for this is not known by the many forced to
    endure the current expense policy.
    
    	Ray

If we're doing expense reform, how about putting and end to the practice of
requiring employees to foot Digital's predictable business expenses with their
personal funds?  For example, consider DECUS registration.  For the most part,
we know months in advance who is going to DECUS and when the registration fee
is due.  Since this is a planned-for expense, it would be reasonable for
cost centers to pay for the registration of all their employees who are going
with a single check (or even to make out separate checks.)  But no... the
employee is required to pay for the registration out of their own personal
funds and then apply for reimbursement.  This was not quite so bad in the
past when you could submit a copy of your check and get reimbursed in a few
days (that's how it worked for me), but now you have to wait for a receipt
to come back from DECUS and then submit a "Miscellaneous Procurement Voucher"
and wait and wait and wait for it to be paid.

The DECUS registration fee for a speaker is $520 - not small change!  I see
no reason at all that I should have to pay up front for my DECUS registration.
I could imagine that many employees couldn't front the money at all, even
if they were to use a credit card (even the so-called "corporate" credit card
is an employee's personal liability.)

Hmm - maybe I should charge Digital 18% per year interest on the loan it
forces me to give them.

Please - let's put some rationality back in Digital's expense policies.

				Steve

    amen!     Amen!!    AMEN!!!!

    I don't understand what all the whining about receipts is about. I
    travel 60-70% of the time to the Asia Pacific area. I eat at
    restaurants which take credit cards, hawker stands, food courts, fast
    food joints, etc. When I get a credit card receipt...fine. When I
    don't...fine as well. I jot it down on the nice pad of paper the hotel
    supplies for the phone and when I get home I submit the paper. Never
    had a problem. According to the travel P&P person, all they need is a
    piece of paper with the amount, date, reason for no "real" receipt and
    its acceptable.
    
    Debbie
    

    Why do we need receipts when we are below the city limits?

    re: .31
    
    Debbie, that's fine, and that works for you.  It seems to vary widely
    by department.  I had $1500 worth of expenses held up for a month
    because I was $1.75 over on a single meal.
    
    I think the majority of us are looking for a simple, fair, uniform
    policy that requires little or no paperwork on anyone's part, thus
    saving us and Digital time and money.  Sort of the flat tax -vs-
    current tax code deal.
    
    								Tex

re .31 


Maybe you didn't read my base note. In my organization receipts
are required for everything or else a special note is required.
These does seem to be different rules for different 
organizations.

To me its pretty simple.

If DEC wants you to go on business trips than they should give you
a reasonable amount of money to travel and you should determine
how to spend the money.	If DEC can't afford to do this then they 
shouldn't send you.

DEC should not ask you to finance the business trip and then tell
you how much money you can or can't spend for each meal.


-td

re .20 Hey Pete



    

re:     <<< Note 4261.29 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>
      -< My employee agreement says nothing about loaning Digital money. >-

    (gist:  having to foot planned-for expenses such as DECUS)
    
    Steve (and others)...
    This appears to be a cost center related issue.  My cost center is
    sending several folk (myself included, for the first time) to DECUS in
    December.  
    
    The cost center has already paid for the hotels, DECUS registration,
    and travel expenses for us all... by purchase order.
    
    So, it can be done.
    
    I'm no apologist for DEC on this matter.. I have OFTEN complained about
    lending DEC money at my personal risk and I agree wholeheartedly that
    DEC is taking advantage of its employees and that this is abusive
    treatment.  We have a wonderful secretary (Ginger Powderly, an ex-deccie, 
    now a temp) who takes care of this particular travel need for us... so, 
    there are some people who can get it done.
    
    But, it should not be the exception.
    
    tony

    On a similar thread, I just received a note from within my organization
    requiring anybody who travels to apply for a Corp Visa card (First
    Card.).  As I understand it, this card......
    
    -Is my personal financial responsibility...billed to me personally at
     my home address
    
    -Becomes incrementally added to my extended credit......viewed
     negatively by creditors when applying for home, car, personal loans
    
    -Forces me to do business with First Card who I had terrible service
     from when I had a their personal Visa/Gold card several years ago
    
    If I'm going to extend Digital credit under my name, especially under
    the current "receipt" guidelines".........why should the company expect
    me to forego the superior service and incentives that Discover, United/Visa
    offer me.
    
    Now if Digital wants to give me a credit card to use for business that
    is direct billed to Digital, that is a different story
    
    JBS

Re: .35

The requirement was handed down to us from Employee Disbursements.

Re: .36

You got it.

		Steve

    
    	Why does this whole string remind me of Forrest Gump, and
    
    	"Stupid is as stupid does"
    
    
    	?????
    
    
    	Is Digital joing the ranks of pennywise, pound foolish?
    
    		the Greyhawk

They did that years ago.

	Steve

>> -Forces me to do business with First Card who I had terrible service
>> from when I had a their personal Visa/Gold card several years ago

The good news is that you'll have almost no learning curve.  First Card
is still the same terrible company that you remember.

j.

    re:Travel policy

    From VTX Travel - First Visa Card - General Information

    > The program provides travel management information on spending patterns 
    > and improves company cash flow...  

    > ... Cash flow is improved because the need for company cash is 
    > diminished when a company charge card is used by travelers.  

    	Now that I've probably tweaked more than a few of you the wrong
    way :-O, would it make it any better if someone in authority said 
    something like, 

    	In light of the large losses the company has incurred over the past 
    couple of years, we are doing everything we can to return the company
    to it's once top rated financial position. This requires everyone's help 
    and support in certain areas.

    	Our goal is to make the company look as financially capable as possible 
    so as to assure future investors of our continued viability. We have had 
    to make some unpopular decisions, such as the changes in the vacation
    and travel expense policies, but rest assured that the goal is to not 
    only maintain, but to promote and experience growth. 

    	It is also our intent to share our success with those of you that
    make it all happen; our employees. As a sign of good faith, we have,
    for the first time, provided matching funds in the SAVE plan. We hope
    to be able to do more things like this, but we still have a ways to go. 
    Please bear with us as we work through these tough and uncertain times.

    					Regards,
    	
    					V.P. Muckity Muck

    	The point in all of this is that all of us have probably said "No"
    when *told* to do something, where the answer would have been "Yes" if
    you were asked. This is my take on this. Comments ?

    	Ray

    I agree First Visa service stinks, they are excellent at sending 
    Dunning letters via All-in -One, and at home so one is hassled in both
    places. I can not believe the Digital allows this to happen. The
    tail is wagging the dog again....
    

    
    	Ray, you hit the nail on the head.
    
    	Want to be a VP???
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

    another expense control ides being implemented:
    
    I'm a CC manager, and had reasonable expense limits, so that close
    to 100% of our folks expenses could be approved by me or my boss.
    2 signature levels was the right number.
    
    Our finance folks recently decided to change things to better control
    expenses.  First, they reduced my approval level by 75%, then reduced
    my boss's level by 75%, and so forth.  Now, for most expense approvals,
    we have to go up through the VP chain, in some cases, 4-5 levels, to
    get regular expense vouchers approved.
    
    Result:  Expenses stay the same, Directors and VPs now have to sign or
    initial routine expense reports, payments are delayed, etc.  It's
    funny how someone can be trusted with a million$+ for headcount
    expenses, but cannot be trusted to approve a routine trip to visit
    a customer and help sell something.
    
    The saga continues.
    
    Mark
    

    re: .41
    Jeez, Ray... you got me flaming there!  Until I saw your VP Muckity
    Muck signature, I thought your reply was the 'real thing'... !!! 
    
    I was getting ready to jump, holler, and SCREAM at you!
    
    Problem is, those ivory tower folks probably DO BELIEVE just like your
    note... They are so damn far outta touch with us ground pounders that
    there doesn't seem to be any hope.  At least I've lost all mine.
    
    I've been with Digital since Jan, '82.  They've ALWAYS required us to
    foot the bill on business expenses... first it was Vouchers (you wrote
    yourself a check to get re-imbursed for expenses)... then it was the
    Diner's Club (boy, did I get into it with THOSE folks).  Then AMEX and
    now this crappy VISA.
    
    On top of that, DEC has ALWAYS (in my experience) had less than "the
    other guy" on benefits... just enough less to notice, and feel a little
    bad about, but not enough less to make you jump ship.
    
    Well, it's damn close now... and the thought of leaving is very
    tempting.
    
    Just suffered thru some crap here where I work which has me at a real
    low ebb this week.  Serious management shortcoming popping up all
    around.  Knee-jerk reactionary mode is the norm... dropping the ball...
    
    (Sorry I'm venting here... shouldn't do that!)
    
    tony 

    re:45
    
    	Well I hope you weren't upset about the first couple of lines about
    how the corporate card helps the company with its cash flow. As I said,
    that was taken verbatim out of the VTX TRAVEL policy. In addition to
    that, there was also -
    
    > In the future, automated payment process improvements may tie into the 
    > Corporate Card.
    
    	I'm not sure what this means. Hopefully this means that the company
    is looking into ways for *it* to automatically pay the bill, not *you*.
    
    	On a side note, the policy on using the card for "personal
    spending" starts out saying -
    
    > Personal spending is not allowed on the corporate card.
    
    	Then it says -
    
    > If excessive personal spending or delinquency occurs, First Bank has 
    > the right to terminate the account.
    
    	In essence, it says don't do it, but if you do, nothing will happen 
    unless you have excessive personal spending ? Weird.
    		    ^^^^^^^^^
    
    	Ray
    
    BTW - I no longer have a corporate card, but if I did, I'd likely
    send mail to POWDML::CHARGECARD to get more info on these things.

>> In the future, automated payment process improvements may tie into the 
>> Corporate Card.
>    
>    	I'm not sure what this means. Hopefully this means that the company
>    is looking into ways for *it* to automatically pay the bill, not *you*.

Oh NO!!!

This could really REALLY create nightmares.

I do not believe that Digital will change things so as to make the Company
financially liable for the card that you carry.  Maybe they should, but I
do NOT believe that they will.

I also do not believe that expense reimbursement will ALWAYS be timely. 
Sometimes it is, but there are exceptions...

Now, imagine this:
You've taken a trip.

You submitted your expenses, but for whatever reason (addition error on your
part, snafu up the line, waiting for 12 VP's to sign off on your trip to Dayton,
whatever) the reimbursement gets held up.

You get serious threats from First Visa, and again are forced to loan Digital
personal money to avoid the consequences with First Visa trashing your credit
rating.

Now, Digital finally comes through with your expenses.  But they PAY First Visa,
not you!!  You now have a CREDIT with First Visa!  How do you collect it?
You're not allowed to use it for personal items, so the only way to get even
financially is to travel again! 

Seem far-fetched?

    The fault in your logic is that if Digital is responsible for the bill,
    it will be Digital (not you) who will get nastygrams from the bank.
    
    				-John

    re:47

    	Just an FYI, but you're not supposed to be reported to a credit
    bureau until you're 180 days delinquent on the corporate card. I 
    remember seeing this in VTX TRAVEL somewhere as well.

    	Ray

>    The fault in your logic is that if Digital is responsible for the bill,
>    it will be Digital (not you) who will get nastygrams from the bank.

I think the worry here is that Digital will be the payee (sends the check), but
the card carrier (you and me) will be responsible (credit history).


al

> Result:  Expenses stay the same, Directors and VPs now have to sign or
> initial routine expense reports ....

Of course we all know what really happens: the secretary signs.  If the
secretary is sensible, it goes quickly.  If the secretary isn't, then the
director or VP actually has to pay attention to the paperwork, and then
it's slow.  In neither case is brainwork involved.  The intent is to
prevent you from incurring expenses by inconveniencing you so much that
you'll stop.  Note: this will not be factored into your performance review.

Many people, even -- unfortunately -- good ones, have discovered that by
simply leaving the company they can cease incurring expenses to Digital.
This fulfills several of the company's most important metrics.

___Pete

    re: 4261.44 by ASABET::SILVERBERG
>   I'm a CC manager, and had reasonable expense limits, so that close
>   to 100% of our folks expenses could be approved by me or my boss.
>   2 signature levels was the right number.
    
    At one point in time, Cost Center "Managers" actually did get to manage.
    Not any more that I can tell. Most of the major authority for expenses,
    capital, and salaries now reside at a much higher level. I personally
    think that we should do away the cost center manager concept and just
    say outright that it takes a VP to sign *anything* in this company. It
    would at least shorten the number of signature lines on a few forms ...
    
>   Our finance folks recently decided to change things to better control
>   expenses.  First, they reduced my approval level by 75%, then reduced
>   my boss's level by 75%, and so forth.  Now, for most expense approvals,
>   we have to go up through the VP chain, in some cases, 4-5 levels, to
>   get regular expense vouchers approved.
    
    Because of the number of levels that have to approve international
    travel, it's now become a temporal impossibility for me to plan,
    execute, and get reimbursed for a "normal" business trip. Somehow,
    some way, it's always going to violate some policy, not meet the
    client requirements, or at the very least, personally cost me money.
    
    I honestly don't know why we bother calling this company "customer
    oriented" because I can't find anyone that spends more time dealing
    with the customer than they do dealing with Digital internal garbage.
    
    
    Geoff

    If I were you I might not have stuck my head up on that one! 8^)
    
    Rob Wall
    

Suppose that a cost-centre manager had the authority to make all 
spending decisions for a cost centre, in line with whatever policies are 
in force at the time (e.g. travel policies, etc.) and only needed 
additional signatures for certain types of expenditure (e.g. 
two-signature stuff where there's potential conflict of interest.)

Suppose also that a CC mgr. thus made *responsible* for the cost centre 
was then also made *accountable* for it too. That is, the CC mgr. would 
be required to manage to budget. Over- or under-spending against an 
approved cost centre budget would be a disciplinary matter in line with 
local disciplinary policy - i.e. verbal, written warnings, and ultimate 
termination. The only occasion on which multiple levels of approval 
would be required (and could be obtained) would be for the authorisation 
of a forecast which was at significant variance to the budget. This 
might be needed because of genuinely unforeseen circumstances.

Wouldn't this offer Digital some significant benefits? Expense control 
would be forced into the line management chain. Decisions would be made 
at a level where they're properly understood. VP's would sign off 
financial decisions consistent with their span of control. Decisions 
would be made quickly. Managers who persistently failed to manage to 
budget would leave the company. Managers who needed to learn how to 
manage a budget would get trained fast. Budgets and forecasts would 
become highly reliable indicators of corporate spending.

    ...but on the other hand that would also eliminate (I'll avoid the use
    of the word redundant) one or more layer of the corporate hierarchy...
    and that would be a reduction in a "core competancy". 8^)
    
    Rob Wall

I don't know if there are too many layers or not.

However, the system of budgets, forecasts, and policies are a standard 
infrastructure on which the compliance controls I described are layered. 
In fact, these are management accounting mechanisms which are designed 
to facilitate control. Obvious when you think about it.

The odd thing is that there appears to have grown up - in many places, 
not just Digital - an alternative compliance control. That is an 
approval matrix for discrete spending decisions. It achieves the same 
end result but requires additional and gloriously busy administrative 
systems.

Having said all that, it would nevertheless be prudent to retain a very 
short approval loop for certain major spending decisions as (a) a safety 
mechanism, (b) a means of training inexperienced CC mgrs.

Re - 3

Still sticking my head up above the parapet..

I *am* measured on expense. I am given a budget and get reports on it 
monthly. The intention is that all ABU Sales Managers will ultimately be 
measured on performance aganist SG&A expense budget and part of their 
sales bonus will be paid against it.

I have no difficulty with having to pass certain items up for additional sign 
off because they are deemed too expensive for me to decide or part of a 
different purchase line (eg to buy a DEC ColourWriter for my secretary I had 
to put a formal capex with justification through)

Paul

    
    	While the concept of management=control is age-old, I think the
    world has grown up faster than the concept's ability to change (adapt).
    
    	What I have been advocating for years is to eliminate the entire
    control process with one that is goal/execution of responsibility
    driven. 
    
    	This means each individual has responsibility for something
    quantifiable. If it cannot be measured by a result, it goes...
    The quantifiable has a cost of completion. You, the individual being
    measured, own that cost; and the associated expenses/assets/revenue
    that allow for the goal/executiable to be performed within business
    defined parameters.
    
    	You can easily draw both individual, and team, goals very easily
    within this concept. People are measured by results, and rewarded by
    achievement. Processes are flexible, focused, and geared to rapid
    response since they are created/modified/eliminated by the groups
    owning the responsibilities for execution.
    
    	What happens is you go (organizationally) to a very flat Table of
    Management requiring only monitoring and mentoring functions in the
    middle with strategic direction and leadership functionally at the top.
    
    	The three level approach...
    
    	Everyone else is goaled as an individual contributor, or a team
    associate...
    
    	And mark my words, the first company in our business to accomplish
    this will rule our industry in the 21st Century.
    
    
    			the Greyhawk

    I work remotely from Texas, for a group in California while reporting
    to New Hampshire. My expenses are all paid by ....CUSTOMERS! When I
    return from a trip, I submit expenses to NH. If all goes well, I get my
    money, pay VISA and we're done. 
    
    IF there is a problem, petty cash sends my voucher to Washington via
    internal mail (We don't have internal mail - Quote:'That's not OUR
    problem'). Last time they did this
    someone put Los Alamos New Mexico on the internal mail by mistake. I
    made two trips while my corporate card was suspended. -NOTE digital -
    I won't do that again. Tell the customers to take their $2000 per day
    plus expenses and go somewhere else.
    
    Used to be, my cost center manager approved my expenses unless a dollar
    threshold was exceeded, then we went one or two levels higher. Now in
    the 'flat management structure' I have three managers, none of whom
    have the authority to do anything except spend a few days looking at
    these papers.
    
    Fear not, those of you who feel we've turned the corner. There are
    entrenched fools everywhere.
    
    When I returned from Hong Kong this week, I found myself in urgent need
    of a replacement modem cable. so I could log in and do expenses before
    I leave for Brazil. I called digital. They referred me to logistics who
    referred me to an 800 number who referred me to another 800 number
    library who referred me to an 800 number for vendor information. The
    young lady here told me my badge number told her system that she was to
    deny me service. Her manager on duty explained to me that because my
    organization does not support MCS. they cannot look up a part number
    for me. I persuaded him to have someone call me back.:^) He referred me to
    an 800 number for a library - whoops - that's how we got here. We tried
    another 800 number which got us to ATT who made the modem. We went
    through 5  800 numbers there until I got to a guy in Florida who
    conference called California with me to order this $5 cable.
    
    My LN06 is making noise. I asked my cost center administrator who gave
    me a number to log a service call. I did so, and the gentleman who
    called me back, first said I would have to pay $138 per hour for
    service plus parts. I mentioned there is a service contract, so he told
    me that warranty doesn't cover service unless it is carry in. I
    repeated 'service contract' and he told me " DIGITAL DOESN'T SERVICE
    DIGITAL's EQUIPMENT" He called me back to say I could carry it in for
    service. He then called back to say it would be either $38 or $70
    something per hour plus parts. He then called back to say it would be a
    flat fee plus parts, then said he'd have to check and call me back. I'm
    still waiting for day two of logging a call.
    
    Other than that Mom, life is grand. Merry Christmas to all of you who
    make policy. My Christmas wish is that you travel over the holidays,
    and have to have your equipment serviced. Do both under the policies
    you have implemented.
    
    ...Larry

>    IF there is a problem, petty cash sends my voucher to Washington via
>    internal mail (We don't have internal mail - Quote:'That's not OUR
>    problem').

FWIW, if you simply attach a note to your expense voucher stating that it should
not be returned to your internal address, but sent to your home address (and you
provide your home address), then you will nip this little problem in the bud.

--Scott

    >> I work remotely from Texas, for a group in California while reporting
    >> to New Hampshire. 
    
    >> IF there is a problem, petty cash sends my voucher to Washington via
    >> internal mail ....
    
    So how did Washington get in the loop??
    

    
>    So how did Washington get in the loop??
    
    That's a dotted line report...
    

    I have an office at DECwest, which is where I'm officially listed as
    being until the H.O.M.E. program process is finished.
    

    Thanks Terry - I had MCS fix the printer once two administrators got
    together and figured out how many memos to send where.
    
    BTW - Terry is the MCS guy. Very professional, ontime and with the
    right parts.
    
    ...Larry
     

    By the way, I realize that this may sound like a piddly little nit, but
    when I get the bill on my company-required credit card to pay First
    Bank for the money that was spent on behalf of company required travel,
    who should be covering the cost of the postage?

    Now *THAT'S* an example of a rhetorical question!
    
    :*(
    
    tony

>>        <<< Note 4261.67 by ICS::BEAN "Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL!" >>>

>>    Now *THAT'S* an example of a rhetorical question!
    
>>    :*(
    
>>    tony

    
    No, only a question that SHOULD have been rhetorical.  It's actually
    under discussion at my office

	When I was out in the field, I would send out my expense related
	mail via office mail.  That way Digital paid for and I didn't 
	need to expense.

	t....

    I tried that.  My letter is still in the outbox (with the other stuff
    picked up around it).
    
    

	Wait until the rest of you are introduced to "TMS", the new
	electronic Travel Management System.

	;-)

Jim

    
    RE: -1 
    
    What about it?????
    

> Wait until the rest of you are introduced to "TMS", the new
> electronic Travel Management System.

Been using it for several years, and it's the best on-line administrative
application I've seen in Digital.  It's not modern -- i.e., its idea of the
world is that the world consists of 24x80 terminals -- but it's not too
slow, it's not too obscure, and it does get the arithmetic right.

TRS, on the other hand, is a horror show.

___Pete

    Due to the VP relief act of 1995 (requiring multiple vps to sign off on
    routine travel expense vouchers), my vouchers are now taking 45 or more
    days to get to petty cash for direct deposit submission.  I've been
    getting the "your account is overdue" letters at home and the similar
    e-mail messages here at work, and I know of 1 person who's credit card
    was "locked" when he tried to use it when travelling due to the delay
    in getting reimbursed.  After 15 years of traveling and reimbursement,
    this is the worst I've ever seen.  It really makes me appreciate how
    well things worked back in the old days when we were embpowered and
    trusted to manage our own businesses.
    
    Mark
    

    All these delayed expenses must be due to specific management chains
    (or the Profit Prevention Teams as I prefer to call some of them). I
    travel every week and have the electronic confirmation of my expense
    vouchers being paid exactly 4 days after submission. Everytime. I'll
    have to remember to thank my manager (and his incredibly efficient
    administrative assistant) the next time I see them! :-)
    
    Harry
    

    RE:  .15 not an approved carrier
    
    You should thank your lucky stars.    
    Think about it for a second... how long do you think these airlines can
    affordably fly a regular sized jet to/from Boston-Atlanta for $184? 
    How do you think they are managing it?