Conference 7.286::digital

    In Mass. and NH we have MANY picnics at Canobie Lake Park in
    Salem, NH.  These are spread out across a 6 week period and
    each plant has a specific day (usually with a few other plants).
    These are fun, a good place to enjoy oneself and munch on Ptobin
    Ptomaine Burgers.
    
    The WORST memory I have is, I think, 1976 or 1977, when DEC
    decided to send ALL of DEC New England to Rocky Point Park in
    Rhode Island on ONE DAY! It took two hours to get from the
    highway to the parking lot, three hours to get lunch, and
    if you could go on two rides all day you were lucky.  They'll
    never do THAT again!
    					Steve

    We have had them every year (14 years) I have been with the company.
    It's a real event.  Several guys get up at 3AM and start a pig
    roasting, play cards, Trivial Pursuit etc., Second shift arrives,
    About 1PM we start playing volleyball, we usally do a little boating,
    water skiing.  Last year some of us went Scuba diving.  Obviously,
    I have lots of great memories.
    
    Worst Memory:  The year my boss would not let us roast a pig.
    
    

    There's one for the German HQ in Munich every year. This year it
    wasn't a real picnic, it was arranged in a park downtown Munich.
    It was the first time I went; wasn't too great, the only thing that
    was well organized was beer (and other drinks).
    

    What about the DECtown picnic complete with a long bus ride,
    long lines for food, boring speeches, boring music from Peter, Paul,
    and Mary, and a boring bus ride back to the hotels...

    The nicest thing about the Canobie outings is that families get
    to spend a day with a crowd that has not been drinking.

    Re: .4 (DECtown picnic)
    
    I thought the DECtown picnic was great fun, pretty good food, pretty
    good entertainment, and a great time.
    
    Maybe it was the companionship,
    
    Don

    I remember standing in the food line at the DECtown picnic with
    Joel Schwartz and Ed Kramer behind me talking about business...
    When the lady I was with asked 'I wonder who they contrracted with
    to provide all this food..?'  Schwartz answered 'probably the lowest
    bidder..'
    
    Actually I thought it was a great time. Visited the Kennedy library..
    ate, heard the words, and enjoyed the two beards and a blonde.
    
    Canobie Lake is a scream! I remember the guy standing in front of
    the food lines directing the hordes with a megaphone...and then
    the icr cream trucks throwing boxes of ice cream sandwiches at the
    crowds...what fun!
    

    Gil,
    
    At the time, did you think to ask Joel Schwartz and Ed Kramer where
    they thought DEC's stock was heading?

    I just arrived in the company jsut before the Rocky Point picnic,
    and didn't go.  I remember it well though, cause I heard nothing but
    bitching about it for weeks thereafter.
    
    As to Canobie lack, all recollections herein are good ones, including
    the one in our 25th year when they served up the HUGE birthday cake
    EVERY day we had a crowd there.
    
    Jack

My worst memory of Canobie Lake outings reoccurs every year - 

The DEC employees who request (and oddly enough *RECEIVE* somehow) additional
tickets for people other than members of their immediate family and then tow
the Mongolian hordes along with them to increase the size of the crowd by
about 20% or so. Sorry, I guess I'm being a hardnose about this, but it seems
to me as if DEC is willing to foot the bill for employees and their *FAMILIES*
to have a day of food and fun, it's kind of like looking a gift horse in the
mouth to abuse the benefit this way.

-Jack

    Would your objection hold if both parents were DECies and they each
    requested tickets for the kids?
    
    The reason I ask is that my "ex" and I used to do this.  The kids
    were so spread in age that they didn't want to be together at the
    park...they preferred to bring a friend their own age.  
    
    Marge

If they're not members of your immediate family they aren't invited,
and you're a thief (in my opinion).
							Larry

re: < Note 352.12 by ISTG::ENGHOLM "Larry Engholm" >
    
>>"and you're a thief (in my opinion)."
				
In **my** opinion, Larry, the second part of your sentence was rude and 
obnoxious. Please note that I didn't say that *you* are rude and obnoxious.
I may disagree with something you write, just as you disapprove of something
that DEC employees with families choose to do; neither of us, however, has 
the right to pass judgement and call names.

I don't know the person you branded personally, but recognize the name as a
thoughtful contributor to a couple of Notes files that I browse. She, and all
of us, deserve better treatment.

Kevin McDonough

Maybe you're right.  I thought twice before entering the note, but it
is how I feel.  DEC trusts us not to take unfair advantage of our
benefits, and it's made clear who the tickets are meant for when we
accept them.  To use them for anybody else is dishonest, and in my
mind is the same as stealing.

I'm not claiming that I wouldn't do the same thing she did in the same
situation.  I don't know.  But if I did, I'd recognize that I was
stealing.  (Hmm.  Saying "...that I'm a thief" doesn't sound as good.
I guess you're right, I didn't word my original note very well.  Sorry.)

I don't know Marge either (except from notes here).  Even if she
wasn't a thoughtful contributor, I wouldn't mean to treat her badly.
I appreciate her honesty in .11.  Maybe I was being brutally honest in
answering her question (addressed to somebody else), but I don't mean
to cause bad feelings.
							Larry

Amendment: "and you were stealing (in my opinion)."

    It seems to me that the goal of the company would be to provide
    an activity that the largest percentage of the company could enjoy.
    
    It seems to me that Marge did indeed follow the 'rule' in that she
    was entitled to tickets for her immediate family as was her then-
    husband.
    
    As a ten year veteran of the company the Digital picnic use to be
    an event that my whole family enjoyed.  Now that my children are
    grown and no longer 'dependent' instead of six tickets I am 
    'eligible' for two.
    
    In my opinion the company should revisit this benefit and consider
    a similar activity that would be of interest to a larger group of
    people.  This activity seems to be geared to the young family and
    as Digital matures employees with young families are no longer the
    largest portion of the workforce.
    
    

    I have been with DEC for over 8 years, and enjoy Canobie lake. 
    I now have a daughter, and she enjoys it also.  I seem to run into
    alot of people from other plants I worked at there also.
    
    DECTOWN..  What a time.  I was paid time and a half with mileage
    to attend!  What did I do???  
    
    I wore yellow nylons, yellow swim fins, and feathers!!
    
    Bruce....Who was BIG bird at Dectown

    Is Canobie Park a place with roller coasters and amusement rides?
    
    I've read here some references to a limitation on who attends, is
    there some 'official' rule, something printed on the invitation?
    If so, how is it worded?
    
    I'm working on our Summer Outing here in Atlanta, and trying to
    avoid doing things that upset people and make it as fun as possible
    for a variety of people.
    
    Linda

                          -< I have outgrown Canobie >-

>    It seems to me that the goal of the company would be to provide
>    an activity that the largest percentage of the company could enjoy.

    ...    
    
 >   In my opinion the company should revisit this benefit and consider
 >   a similar activity that would be of interest to a larger group of
 >   people.  This activity seems to be geared to the young family and
 >   as Digital matures employees with young families are no longer the
 >   largest portion of the workforce.
    
    
     
	Please take care not to confuse the "maturation" of Digital as
a company with the "maturation" of individual employees...Digital's
corporate maturation has been accompanied by massive new hiring and given
the nature of our industry I would be very surprised to find that our
workforce were mostly past the family-rearing years...but if anyone
has stats to the contrary, I'd be very interested.

	BTW, .18 replies to .15

    I have worked at DEC for 6 years now in BTO.  The first three years
    our outing was at the Basin Harbor Club, Vergennes, on Lake Champlain
    (where els!).  I thought is was great fun.  We had games for the
    kids, bingo, movies, band to listen to while we ate our buffet style
    cook out.  There were boats available for renting, a tour boat and
    a fishing contest for the kids. Oh yes, and swimming!
    
    Then for two years they had the carnival type outing at the fair
    grounds.  I was interested.  My son insists on going to the State
    Fair every year, so he didn't miss not going.  I hate standing in
    lines for rides!
    
    This year promises to be interesting.  We have all day tickets to
    the Shelburne Museum, a cook out and then a circus at 8 p.m.
    
    I understand the frustration of not being able to get extra tickets.
    Our tickets say you are allowed to bring just one guest and any
    dependent children that live in your household.  Obviously my husband
    is my guest.  That leaves our son quite on his own when we go. 
    
    
    Donna B.
    

    
    >  Then for two years they had the carnival type outing at the fair
    >  grounds. I was interested.
    
    Oops!  That should have been "I wasn't interested".
    				    ------
    

    
    
    ref .3
    
    > the only thing that was well organized was beer (and other drinks).
    
    I know in the US that we are not allowed to serve alcohol at any
    DEC sponsered function.  Is it not the same in Germany?

    I don't believe it's the same in Germany. I was in Munich last March,
    and noticed the beer that was being sold in the employee cafeteria.
    Personally, if I drank one for lunch, I'd be snoozing by 2:00 (no
    'so what's different?' jokes puleeeeze). But there were a lot of
    DEC folks having a brew (German) for lunch..
    
    Gil
    

    <sigh>, as in innumerable other notes in this and other notesfiles,
    let me reassure you that DEC in the USA is far more parnoid about
    alcohol than it's european sister companies.
    
    Andy

Not only is beer sold in the cafeteria in DECpark Munich, but there are also
beer vending machines located throughout the facility, so you can take beer
back to your desk just like you'd get a soda here in the U.S.

Banning beer at work in Germany would mean losing most of our employees.

/john

    To answer the earlier question: yes, Canobie Lake Park is an amusement
    park with rides, roller coasters, etc.
    
    The wording on the ticket request form as I remember it is:
    
    	1.  If married, you can get tickets for yourself, your spouse
    	    and your dependent children
    
    	2.  If single, you get tickets for yourself, a guest, and
    	    your dependent children
    
    I understand the ethics with the literal interpretation of the above
    rules, but I have a hard time condemning anyone who stretches them
    reasonably, such as bringing along the kids' babysitter, or a visiting
    grandparent.  While I have never taken anyone with me who didn't
    meet the guidelines, nor have I ever requested more tickets than
    I was entitled to, I have at times given surplus tickets to other
    employees who wanted them.
    					Steve

    If Digital provides a benefit (in this case, Canobie Park),
    and then the rules become so restrictive as to inhibit many
    employees from enjoying the benefit, then of what value is the
    benefit?
    
    Bruce (My wife and I enjoy Canobie even without children)

    My kids are already asking when is their time to go to Canobie Lake
    this year... they do enjoy it...
    
    As for extra tickets...
    
    If worker A and B are entitled to two tickets, and choose to obtain
    them, and give them to me, for me to take two underpriviledged kids
    with my kids, what is the difference.  Two people went. The two
    that give up their tickets to me did not go, so that two others
    could go. As far as I am concerned, it was an even exchange... I
    can't see where the complaint is...
    
    DISCLAIMER:  I have not brought anyone who was not entitled to a
    ticket to Canobie Lake.  The above was a hypothetical situation
    only.
    
    GLK
    

    Out here in Western Mass., the Springfield and Westfield plants
    rent a park just over the Conn. line for a big picnic, with
    softball and volleyball, and a pool. No drinking - officially.
    Lotsa parking-lot parties. I don't go now, too far to walk from
    the car to the food :-)
    
    Re. Munich - I think i'll start studying German !!

    Re: several
    When I expressed my original concern about people obtaining tickets
    they weren't entitled to, I should have been more clear, but I guess
    I didn't feel it necessary to go into a whole lot of tactical detail.

    In strict principle, I think that at least to some extent, its an
    abuse of a benefit to bring people to Canobie Lake that aren't
    "invited". As someone mentioned, the form says "employee, spouse/guest,
    and dependent children", not your son's/daughter's friends. Look at
    it this way - if anyone cared to enforce it, would you be willing to
    defend your "right" to take your kids' friends?

    I point of fact, I must admit that I myself have been guilty of this
    violation. Several years when my wife didn't want to go and my two
    daughters did, I've allowed one or the other of them to bring a friend
    to use the ticket my wife wasn't using. As someone mentioned, if the
    tickets are available to you and you use them, the number of people
    doesn't change so what's the difference, even if you've gotten the
    tickets from another employee who chooses not to use their own.

    My real complaint was addressed at was those employees who request
    (from personnel, or whomever is responsible for doling out the tickets)
    EXTRA tickets - i.e. MORE than they are entitled to - in order to
    bring extra people to inflate the crowd. Maybe part of my anger
    should be addressed at personnel (or whoever is responsible for
    doling out the tickets) as they should have access to the Employee
    Master File to verify the number of tickets any particular DEC badge
    holder is entitled to. Yet I see people with two kids having eight or
    ten tickets being dispensed to them. Something just isn't right there.

-Jack

    Several years ago I had 4 tickets: myself, wife, and 2 kids.
    Because of a family emergency we were unable to attend. My manager
    gave my tickets to 2 other employees, who were able to bring friends
    and out of town relatives. 
    
    It's true these people weren't DECies, but the alternative would
    have been to throw the tickets out. 
    
    Giving the tickets to others certainly seemed like the sensible and 
    "right" thing to do.        
    
    -bs 

    Once the ticket requests are put in, food is ordered for
    X number of people, so it makes sense to send someone.

  I agree that Personnel should check the files when issuing tickets
to be sure the children are "real". I think this can be on-line.
If not, I suppose they could legitimately say it would be too time-
consuming.
  If you enjoy spending 3-4 hours waiting in lines to go on rides
and for food, you will like the outing. And if you don't go on the
rides there is not enough to do to make it worth going.

    Do you register your children with personnel?  I don't.  How are
    they supposed to check?
    				Steve

 The number of exemptions on your federal tax withholding form,
which personnel has on file, is usually equal to or slightly greater
than the number of dependent children. 

    re .35
    the number of exemptions on your federal witholding is a function
    of a)your actual # of dependents b)your overall tax situation or
    c)your personal preference.
    
    Bob Mc
    PS, slightly smaller maybe, but I can't think of a reason to claim
    more unless some form of b) causes it.
    
    Bob Mc

    RE: .35 My W-4 shows no deductions which even if I did not have
    a family would be somewhat less then my actual situation since there
    would still be me. I know people in other situations who claim much
    more then their actual deductions because of other things that they
    will be able to deduct at year end.
    
    				Alfred

    [Re: .37]:  What you claim for deductions is no one else's business;
    not even the IRS's, if you pay what you owe on 15-APR.
    
    [Re: jam-packed Canobie Lake Park]:  I used to go to Honeywell Day
    at CLP.  It was jammed.  Then the company went down the tubes, and
    Family Day was cancelled... 8^(
    
    Don't complain about the crowds.  Be happy they're all still part
    of the "family."

    my W4 has 9 deductions.  I have no kids.  
    
    
    Does this mean that I should get 9 tickets?????
    
    
    
    
    -bill
    

    Well, my W4 had 7 deductions, and Paul had 1 (I think), but now
    that we are married and pay much higher taxes, we both have negative
    dedcutions (0 + withhold EXTRA money per week - it's been five years,
    and my take-home pay is still lower than it was when I was single,
    and Paul's was until his last raise!  Good grief!!).  So, I guess
    we get NEGATIVE numbers of Canobie tickets.
    
    I don't think the company has any info that would tell it how many
    an employee is really entitled to.

    Gee folks, there seems to be a significant difference in US versus
    European personnel policies. Over here (at least in France) you
    are required to communicate to personnel data such as:
    marital status, number of kids, home address.....
    and any changes when they occur. This is mandatory (I think by the
    laws).
    Fred_who_knows_that_personnel_knows_that_he's_got_five_kids.

    Here it is between you and the tax collector...

    
    The invitation for Canobie tickets states (and has always stated)
    that if you are married, you are entitled to tickets for you,
    your spouse and your dependant children.
    
    This year they have decided the age limit is 23, regardless,
    meaning the 25 and 26 year old children who still live at home
    with mom and have gone to Canobie with her for the past 9 years
    suddenly are 'too old' and can't go this year.
    

    Note 262 in UCOUNT::NEW_HAMPSHIRE discusses peoples reactions to
    the Canobie Lake Outing on Sunday, October 18, 1987. 
    
    I won't rehash that discussion here, except to point out that that
    Sunday's attendance was approximately 8,000 in excess of the park's
    rated capacity of 10,000 visitors.
    
    Safety considerations, as well as the comfort and good humor of the
    attendees, would appear to demand that Digital consider some
    alternatives.  New Hampshire's climate would seem to preclude simply
    reserving more fall weekends--I believe the number is now up to five.
    I suggested (in note 262.5) that Digital distribute the load to another
    park. 
    
    Is the only other choice to abandon this kind of company-wide outing
    altogether? What say the readers of this conference?

    START EARLIER: i.e. reserve some of the weekends of the regular
    season.
    
    Allow rained-out ticket to be used on ANY "day". Variation: give out
    assigned tickets, but accept them any day so that people have more
    choice - most will come on the assigned day.
    
    rmm
    

    RE: Rained out tickets...
    
    We were to go on Sept 13th... It rained that day... we were told
    we could go as a rain day of September 25th, or October 18th...
    Neither one of those days could we go due to previous plans...
    My family went on September 26th... our tickets were honored...
    no problem...  So people didn't HAVE to wait until the last day...

    We went on Saturday, apparently before the hordes on Sunday. There
    were some lines, but it wasn't too bad.  We even walked back in
    the late afternoon and revived ourselves with a hotdog and a
    few (more) ice creams for the little folks...
    
    Gil 

    
    I got a suggestion.
    
    Go to Canobie lake park as we do now, or get a $20 [per employee]
    certificate to a local restraunt.
    
    The real story is that not all employees can make it to the outting.
    Not all are getting a bennie.  But these same people who can't make
    it to the outting give their tickets to someone who needs an extra.
    
    Why do people need an extra?, ok consider that parents with maybe
    a 4 year old and maybe a 10 year old.  They both don't want to ride
    on the same rides.  The 10 year old is a little indepentant.  Ok,
    get him an extra ticket and he can take a friend.  OK folks, noone
    wants to lie or cheat DEC but they have taken a child that doesn\'t
    belong if they do this.  I think that same parent would gladly pay
    $10 for that ticket if allowed to purchase it.
    
    Please don't do away with it.  I've gone to 16 outtings [I missed
    Rocky point,thank you].  We've always had fun.  Did you ever get
    there at 9AM and have coffee and doughnuts?  they're provided.
    our kids start riding at 10am.  no lines.  we eat at 1 and leave.
    
    This year I noticed the attendents particularly friendly.
    ed
    

    Speaking as someone who went to Canobie for the 'first' time...
    
    I think it was over-crowded.
    
    I am thankful for a change to get some of the 'benefits' that DEC
    advertises.  I used to work in the 'field' in Dallas, Texas. This
    office has about 300-500 people. In the  2.5 years that I was there
    not once did I ever get to attend 'company' paid events, because
    'management' didn't allow us to leave 'revenue' producing customers
    to go to them. 'Management' scheduled them during the day.  The
    only benefit of this type that the field has is a 'Holiday' Party.
    No Turkey, No Canobie Lake, nothing...  I guess what I think it
    boils down to for me is that, yeah i s**ked becuase it was so crowded,
    but I'm *REAL* thankful to get some 'fun' benefits for a change..
    
    
    Kevin (new to ZKO last january)
    who's looking forward to cooking a DEC turkey!
    

>    No Turkey, No Canobie Lake, nothing...  I guess what I think it
     
  The field office managers might have a legitimate excuse for no turkeys: the
expense of delivering a small number to an isolated DEC site. But there is no
excuse for not giving them something else of comparable value. The same goes
for the outing. I think the suggestion of having a choice between the outing
and a gift certificate at a local restaurant (or only the gift certificate if
the site doesn't have amusement park outings) is an excellent one.

	Tell you tell. I swap my Turkey card and Canobie lake
	tickets for your company car :-).

    re: .50
    
    In the Detroit area, we have perhaps 500 people in Field Service,
    Sales and Software Services, plus the ECA management center, an
    Ed Svcs center, etc.  I don't consider this a small number at an
    isolated DEC site.  But, we don't get turkeys either.
    
    re: .51
    
    Company cars are NOT benefits, they are tools.  Of course, when
    I interviewed for my position within Field Service, it wasn't mentioned
    that the company car was a tool, but was given the impression that
    is was a benefit.  I reckon it depends onthe situation, eh?
    

>   Company cars are NOT benefits, they are tools.  Of course, when
>   I interviewed for my position within Field Service, it wasn't mentioned
>   that the company car was a tool, but was given the impression that
>   is was a benefit.  I reckon it depends onthe situation, eh?

Or on which side of the desk you were sitting :-)