Conference 7.286::digital

From 4597.39:

> vendorizing

  This apparently means something like "Selling Off" but differing
  in some yet-to-be-explained way.

                                   Atlant

    Atlant,
    You might want to cross post this to thebay::joyoflex as well. There a 
    couple of threads there that discuss this kind of thing. 
    Bruce

I heard that the term for modifications to a group of offices, shrinking the 
cubicle size to less than 10' x 10' -- I am not making this up -- is:

	Densification

    
    
    actually the real term for cube shrinking is "smurfing". 
    

    They've used "densification" extensively during the, um, densification
    process here at LJO.  Densification has been, as one would expect,
    modified to "dunce-ification" in colloquial usage here, too.

    re:dense-si-fi-ca-tion
    
    3 or more managers in a room at the same time

    Ha ha ha! well, that was my first reaction to these nu werdz!
    How about sending them to Scott Adams? That'll be a hoot.
    
    

    
    
    My humble submissions:
    
    "Proactive" is something that I have only heard within Digital.  Is it 
    *really* a word?   Possibly an adjective that has gained professional
    status?
    
    "de-emphasize".  Meaning:  We like it but it costs too much so we are
    going to cut funding, *maybe* we will "emphasize" it at some unspecified
    date in the future.  But we still like it.
    
    "re-engineer"  Meaning "fix".
    
    

Re: "densification"

That's known locally as, "Honey, I shrunk the cubes!"

RE: 640.9 by DECWET::FARLEE "Insufficient Virtual um...er...."

> "Honey, I shrunk the cubes!"

How can they do that in DECWest,  as most of the cubes are not cubes,  but
offices with doors?


Phil

"Special Project"

Back before TFSO, if you were put on a "special project" you were 
expected to find another job right quick.

"Opportunity"

I should go hide when my manager has an "opportunity" for me.

Joe

    Value Propositions == bonuses handed out to Digital VPs / Officers.

    Check out thebay::joyoflex
    	"a new verb is bornized"
    Bruce

    I'll never forget this one from years ago, when a sales rep sat down
    with a customer and said 
    
    "Let's do a little conceptual foundationing."
    
    ken b.

    Any noun can be verbed.  

    .15 Yep, like "impacted", which drives me crazy.
        The only valid usage of "impacted" is like in "impacted
        wisdom teeth".
    
    OK I'll add one or two --- how about "paradigm shift" and the other
    favourite, "synergy". Big yuchs.
    
    

        I think all these werdz are "systemic" of our digital culture!

    Digits seem to believe that incentives "incent" people (they don't; the
    verb is "incite").
    
    Leslie

My personal hangups are using input and output as verbs.  you don't "input the
command" or "output the report".

-mark

    
    	See my p_n for 1 of my favorite "Dilbert" references.
    

    resource == engineer

    Oh, and "attrit" as a noun... that's pretty cool.

    
    TW

    
    wnat about the oldie from the wave of yuppie hires a few years
    ago......
    
    'Grounded'......like I need to be grounded on what you are doing?
    
    
    Ground this!Q#$&@$^*@$&
    
    me

re: .10

Actually there are lots of cubes here at DECwest, which is why 
people roll their eyes when facilities mentions replacing the 
carpet.

re: .9

> "Honey, I shrunk the cubes!"

Wasn't it Fred Wang (An Wang's son) who said, "Daddy, I shrunk 
the company."

Wes

    No, I think that was Bob Palmer.

    Unfair, imho (though I was only a spectator of Fred Wang's tenure, not
    part of Wang).  As far as I could see, Fred Wang UNintentionally shrank
    his company; Bob Palmer did it, in a hard-nosed bid for survival.  
    
    He may not have won legions of admirers amongst those who left or were
    forced to leave during that effort -- or even amongst those who are
    still here.  But I'll wager that -- friends or no -- there are FAR more
    of us here now, than there would be had Bob Palmer NOT done his thing.  
    
    For more, related sentiments -- see Stan Rogers' 4033.178 and my .180.
            
    For proof, check out http://www.upside.com/current/palmer.html ...
    

    
    
    A few words and phrases that I've come across:
    
      >	Uninternationalizationability
    
      >	Stovepiping.. and I still don't know what it means
    
      >	Learnings
    
      >	Trainings
    
      >	Positivize and Positivization
    
      >	Mind focussing
    
      >	Negative salary increase 
    
      >	Touch base
    
      > Let's take that one off-line
    
      > Let's do lunch
    
    "Well, that's it for now. I know you've got what it takes and we need
    200% of it. It's gonna be wall to wall, soup to nuts and the game's all 
    over in spades. And at lighting-up time, even the company dog gets
    freed up for the big party.."
    
    Now that is culled from the words and style of an English marketing 
    manager I knew in another company some years back.
    
    Keep 'em coming,
    
    John
    
    
    
    
     

    A new expression often used currently bu HRO for people who want to
    make carreer but can't get higher up.
    For them there exists a way out, namely
    
    			multifunctional availability (affectiveness)
    
    Another favorite expression often used is
    
    			a possitive ZERO salary review
    
    Regards,
    
    Frans

    Universal worker
    
    

Done deal

    My favorite is collaboration, and any derivitive of such...
    
    Don't they shoot collaborators during war time 8%)
    
    C

    
    Actionables

    if you shift the paradigm without a cluth, does the metal grind? 
    
    we once had a manager that loved the word paradigm..everytime he said
    it in a meeting, we'd throw a couple of dimes his way....grate laughs.
    
    deadhead

    When I hear the term "paradigm shift" I generally get out two
    ten-cent coins and start moving them from one hand to the other...

    Internalize:  I don't know what the f you are talking about so I need
    some time to think about it.
    
    Action Item:  The crummy work I don't want to do that I want you to do
    on my behalf.
    
    Customerize:  We've tried this approach so many times we finally had to
    give it a name.
    
    Partner:  The thing we stick with all our excess inventory in Q4.
    
    Performance review:  Anyone....Buhler...Anyone....
    
    Digitize:  The opposite of Analogize
    
    Goalsheet:  The thing they change in Q4 when managment knows they are
    coming up short.  See Partner.
    
    Cross Function:  we really don't know who owns this hot potato so we're
    going to cross functionalize it and share the blame.
    
    Mea Culpa:  The thing you say when the poop is hitting the windmill. As
    in, "What do you want me to do, have  a Mea Culpa on this?"
    
    Rightsize, Downsize etc...: sorry folks we blew the forecast so we
    need to make some adjustments in headcount.
    
    
    Let's keep this going.....

    Mindshare -  I don't know how to use it in a sentence, but
                 seen it all the time in presentations.
    
    Mindset   -  That's a "major mindset" !
    
    Shortlist -  We'd like to be in everybody's (customer's) shortlist.
    
    Productize -
    
     

Actually, a number of terms listed here that are allegedly Digitalizations (do I
get a quarter? I just made that up!) have common usage in the "business world".
You see them in books on quality and management, in magazine articles, and at
other companies. We're just one of the gang. Not that we can't strive for
excellence in leading the fight against good language...

RE "opportunity" - When I worked at TI, it was known tongue-in-cheek as OTE, or
"Opportunity To Excel" (with the implied meaning "Opportunity to fail
miserably"). Successfully pulling off an OTE could actually be a boost to your
career, worth major atta-boys; more often, though, it meant a crummy job that no
one else wanted to do and was doomed to failure before it even began.

    
    I just had to add these...
    
    Planful --  As in "It was done in a planful way."
    
    Co-locate -- As in "these two things will be co-located."
    
    Leverage (used as a verb) --  As in "This will leverage sales."
    
    			and my current favorite phrase...
    
    "We need you to go to the customer and facilitate knowledge transfer".  
    
    I certainly could be wrong about this, but I think they wanted me to teach 
    someone something.  No doubt to leverage sales in a planful way.

    
    	RE: a few back
    
    	I've used "mindset" [this morning, in NOTES somewhere] and I'm
    	only a peon.
    
    	Should I start to worry?
    

Shawn:

> I've used "mindset" [this morning, in NOTES somewhere] and I'm
> only a peon.
> 
> Should I start to worry?
    
  Depends on your mindset!

                                   Atlant

    
    	Thanks, Atlant.  I should definitely table that notion.
    

    Nobody's mentioned 'functionality' ... too obvious? You should all
    be tasked to check its dictionariality.

    anyone "architected" anything recently??

    well, you-know-who has been crafting something with partners

	prioritization 

	It is in my performance feedback info sheet.....

    Two favorite verbed nouns:  task and goal, as in "I'm going to goal you
    on that" or "He tasked me to finish by Friday."
    
    And - this must have appeared in joyoflex - the all-purpose Digital
    preposition "around", as in "I have some issues around that."  
                                      

Allow me to add a few more barbarisms:

Share		as in "I want to share my thoughts about..."


Verbiage	used to mean written explanation.  "We'll add 
		the verbiage later."

Verbage		barbarized form of "verbiage."




                                      

RE: .39

	I'm just gonna have to raise the flag on that one and consider
	that for candidatation statusizing..

						mikieazator

    To signal one's understanding:
    
    	"I hear where you're coming from."

    For a nice long list of commonly used non-words found in Digital, check
    out the Word Usage newsletter.  It also includes grammar tips and other
    valuable written English information.
    
    My favorites:
    		Irregardless
    and		apostrophe's used in inappropriate way's
    
    To subscribe:
    "This message was delivered to you as a Reader's Choice subscriber to
    Word Usage.  Subscriptions for this newsletter are collected through the
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       - Reader's Choice profile in VTX use keyword PROFILE.  At the main
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     - While viewing the document in the Information Repository (VTX
    keyword IR).
     - Subscription Services via the Internal Digital Homepage,
       URL: http://www-iu.ako.dec.com/int/subscription-services.html. "
     

    wordsmith (no idea what this means)

    >wordsmith (no idea what this means)
    
    To re-write a memo or document so that it is politically correct,
    several pages long, contains many of the words presented earlier in this
    string and is content free. :-)
    
    Harry
    

    "  I feel your pain    "

A term I think stinks is "significant other", like everyone *else* in
the universe is *in*significant.

Calvin:	"I've been disempowered!  My centering, self-actualizing anima 
has been impacted by toxic, co-dependent dysfunctionality!"

Mother: "You've been temporarily inconvenienced.  Take out the trash."

Calvin: "Are you saying there's a difference?!"

Just imagine the scenario (sorry)

Apollo 13, 200,000 miles away from earth when Jim Lovell says:

		"Huston, we have a opportunity"

	Congradulations

    		
    		"We're reorganizing to focus on our core competency"
    
    		 -Dilbert 

    For the Dilbert impaired...
    
    
    		 "We're reengineering your function"
    
    	Meaning: "Adios, Tonto, and the horse you rode in on"
    
    
    
    		 "You are empowered"
    
    	Meaning: "You're the monarch of unimportant decisions"

More Dilbert:

        "We must focus on our core business"

Meaning: "We can't find our butts with both hands


        "We value employee input."

Meaning: "We think humor is important."


        "Training is essential"

Meaning: "We're trying to hire some trained people."

        
        "We have to be more competitive."

Meaning: "Say goodbye to salary increases."


	"We're market driven."

Meaning: "We blame customers for our lack of innovation."

                   "cost cutting exercise"

"The ALL-IN-1 kit should be out on the Alpha condist now, with the VAX kit on 
the June issue. I have been informed that as a cost cutting exercise for MCS, 
the SSB kits will be held until the start of the next fiscal year (ie July) 
before they can be shipped from SSB."

    Just came from a meeting.....
    
    	"Possible-izing"
    

    
    In a data book we give to customers this word is really used:
    
    "Symmetrator" - Its context implies that the intended meaning for
                    the word is, "one who creates symmetry".
    
    Yikes - the number of replies here seem to indicate a new language
    is emerging!

there was a discussion here at one stage about "issues" and how you can 
"own" one, "talk" to them, "put them to bed" etc ( i forget the rest)

..which reminds me of a Moroccan (sp ?) employee here in Galway who 
couldn't understand why one of our American colleagues wanted to "put a 
stake in the ground".    When he left here, we got him a stake with an 
arrow on it saying "ground this way" ...

-ronan

    I'm sure this is in here somewhere, but it bears reposting:

From the Feb 20, 1995 issue of Fortune - Volume 131, No. 3:
  
  CLICHE'D CORPORATE CONVERSATIONS FROM HELL
    
  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to recognize that corporate America
  is a leading-edge recycler of tired phrases. It's a no-brainer. Pitch
  artists swearing they walk the talk, bearing offers of win-win situations,
  are legion. But the bottom line is that you don't want to be left out of
  the linguistic loop while colleagues who are a bit slower on the learning
  curve throw out slews of mouth-bitten cliches' every time they touch base
  with you. That's why we ratcheted up our very own Devil's Dictionary - to
  take you through the worst of the worst just one more time.
    
  Our nations bulging inventory of business cliches' is spun out by pundits,
  picked up by senior executives and regurgitated by pilot fish imitating
  their bosses. The explosion of management tomes and seminars in the past 15
  years has fostered a top-down commitment among business folks to pepper
  their vocabularies with the latest business jargon. As the pace of work
  becomes lightning-quick, people condense complex historical events into
  flashy insights. "Just as reading diet books is a substitute for losing
  weight, reading management books is a substitute for good management,"
  comments Vanderbilt University professor Terrence Deal (whose own LEADING
  WITH SOUL is due in bookstores soon). In this age of cliches', meaningless
  reigns. Does anyone truly know what the "value chain" is? Or exactly what
  is "empowerment"? Avers Ralph Kilmann, professor at the University of
  Pittsburg's business school: "People feel comfortable with these concepts. 
  They think they understand them because they use them in conversation,
  memos, and publicity statements, but there is virtually no substance to
  these words. Now that's vision!
    
  The Devil's Dictionary
    
  TEAM PLAYER - An employee who substitutes the thinking of the herd with
  his/her own good judgment
    
  REENGINEERING - The principal slogan on the Nineties, used to describe any
  and  all corporate strategies.
    
  VISION - Top management's heroic guess about the future, easily printed on
  mugs, T-shirts,, posters and calendar cards.
    
  PARADIGM SHIFT - A euphemism companies use when they realize the rest of
  their industry has expanded into Guangdong while they were investing in
  Orange County.
    
  RESTRUCTURING - A simple plan instituted from above in which workers are
  right-sized, down-sized, surplused, lateralized, or in the business jargon
  of days of yore, fired.
    
  EMPOWERMENT - A magic wand management waves to help traumatized survivors of
  restructuring suddenly feel engaged, self-managed, and in control of their
  futures and their jobs.

===============================================================================
Some additions from Digital employees and their friends:
    
  NETWORKING - Low Management (as opposed to Middle) term used to describe
  one's ability to substitute effort for substance, or loyalty for ability.
  Also a synonym for INTERFACING (which tends to be NETWORKING's ruder
  elements).
    
  PARTNERING - Management term now used to inadequately describe a company's
  inability to sell their own products themselves.
    
  VALIDATION - the *new* term to describe one's inability to complete
  one's own tasks in reference to one's opinion on how someone else is
  completing theirs.
    
  EMPOWERMENT - putting a dog on a leash and telling it to run as far as it
  can.
      
  FACILITATE - Attending a meeting with the goal of getting everyone else
  to do the work
    
  COMPETENCY - Special skills that we tell customers we have but really don't
    
  AFFINITY - A group of consultants with like competencies but with different
  goals and managers
    
  GOALED - When they want to say "measured" but know there is no possible way
  to measure or reward a consultant
     
  DIALOG - The mutual exchange of meaningless cliches

  REENGINEERING - What you have to do when you screwed up your first attempt
  at engineering

  EMPOWERED - An employee with an up-to-date resume

  Top 20 Engineers' Terminologies:
      
  1. A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES ARE BEING TRIED --
         We are still pissing in the wind.
  2. EXTENSIVE REPORT IS BEING PREPARED ON A FRESH APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM --
         We just hired three kids fresh out of college.
  3. CLOSE PROJECT COORDINATION --
         We know who to blame.
  4. MAJOR TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH --
         It works OK, but looks very hi-tech.
  5. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS DELIVERED ASSURED --
         We are so far behind schedule the customer is happy to get it
	 delivered.
  6. PRELIMINARY OPERATIONAL TESTS WERE INCONCLUSIVE --
         The darn thing blew up when we threw the switch.
  7. TEST RESULTS WERE EXTREMELY GRATIFYING  --
         We are so surprised that the stupid thing works.
  8. THE ENTIRE CONCEPT WILL HAVE TO BE ABANDONED --
         The only person who understood the thing quit.
  9. IT IS IN THE PROCESS --
         It is so wrapped up in red tape that the situation is about hopeless.
  10. WE WILL LOOK INTO IT --
         Forget it!  We have enough problems for now.
  11. PLEASE NOTE AND INITIAL --
         Let's spread the responsibility for the screw up.
  12. GIVE US THE BENEFIT OF YOUR THINKING --
         We'll listen to what you have to say as long as it doesn't interfere
	 with what we've already done.
  13. GIVE US YOUR INTERPRETATION --
         I can't wait to hear this load of bull!
  14. SEE ME or LET'S DISCUSS --
         Come into my office - I'm lonely.
  15. ALL NEW --
         Parts not interchangeable with the previous design.
  16. RUGGED --
         Too damned heavy to lift!
  17. LIGHTWEIGHT --
         Lighter than RUGGED.
  18. YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT --
         One finally worked.
  19. ENERGY SAVING --
         Achieved when the power switch is off.
  20. LOW MAINTENANCE --
         Impossible to fix if broken.

  RE-ENGAGE EMPLOYEE MORALE - We've fixed the uncertainty of continuing
  employment for at least 50% of the staff by firing them.

  OUTSOURCE:  "Hit the bricks"
              "Employee Sale - 15% off"
              "Redeployment of contributing resources to local economy"

  YOU ARE VALUED BUT NOT PART OF OUR CORE STRATEGY: "You don't have to go
  home, but you can't stay here."
  
  TECHNICAL SEMINAR: A one-day event geared to confuse even your best
  engineering resources.
    
  SALES TRAINING: A Technical Seminar for 3-year-olds
    
  TARGETED ACCOUNTS: Companies whose checks don't bounce.

  SYNERGY - the thrill you feel when breaking the rules in order to "do the
  right thing". Second spelling SIN-ERGY.

  SYNERGY - the search for common part numbers beyond power cord plugs for
  more than one product.
    
  SYNERGY - synchronized energy, what happens when a group of people act as
  a team

  TEAM  - A group of people who excel at expending energy together in
  meetings

  MEETINGS - 99 3/4% Pure (waste of time); the 1/4% is for identifying new
  terms that defy traditional meaning.

  PAY RAISE - Formerly looked forward to. Presently seen as an historical
  concept for rewarding mismanagement.

  EMPOWER: Management's way of foisting off their responsibilities onto the
  worker-bees

  COACH: What I would have expected if I had joined a little league team
  rather than a corporation

  INTEGRATION: What one does with the left-over parts.
    
  DIS-INTEGRATION: What one does when the left over parts work.
    
  RE-INTEGRATION: What one does if the left over parts don't work.
    	
  STAKEHOLDERS: Former employees
    
  MIDDLEWARE: When underware isn't appropriate
    
  SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!! - Used to justify riding roughshod over common
  sense.

  MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE!! - Used after some of our previous phrases which hide
  the fact that a situation is hopeless or has been grossly mismanaged or
  both.

  SETTING THE CUSTOMER'S EXPECTATIONS - "There's not a snowball's chance in
  hell we'll do what you want."

  OPPORTUNITY - "Do we have a headache for you...."

  THE SUBJECT IS UNDER CONSIDERATION - We've lost the file.

  THE SUBJECT IS UNDER ACTIVE CONSIDERATION - We're looking for the file.

    How many time have you heard this one
    	"get in bed with your customer"
    
    Even heard a VP say this
    	"be careful who you let in your pants"
    
    It just keeps getting better.
    

    
    	I guess it depends on the customer.
    

    
    
    "Signage" for signs    As in "Who is reposnsible for trade show
    			   signage?"
    
    "Make the tough decisions"
    "Interviewee"
    "Physical year"  For Fiscal year or chronological year?
       
    
     Dilbert:	    "At this company we're dedicate to the principle of
    		     employee empowerment"
    
    Job applicant:  "The principal of employee empowerment?  Why would you
    		    have a special phrase for something like that?  If you
    		    could really make decisions on your own, it would never 
    		    occur to you to invent a phrase for it."
     
    		    "Don't tell me you have 'Quality Teams'!"
    
    
    

    Re: last
    
    "signage" is used extensively in architecture (the building kind) and
    industrial design.  It may be a dumb word, but we can't be blamed for
    this one.

	Shawn, what does Depends have to do with this?

> "signage" is used extensively in architecture (the building kind) and
> industrial design.  It may be a dumb word, but we can't be blamed for
> this one.

  Which is true, but just goes to show you how far all of
  our vocabularies have gone down the drainage.

                                   Atlant

> How many time have you heard this one
> 	"get in bed with your customer"
> 
> Even heard a VP say this
> 	"be careful who you let in your pants"

  But you know you're *REALLY* in trouble when they

    "...open the kimono."

                                   Atlant

    hmmm.. not sure if this one works or not.. but i hear this quite often
    .... 
    
    goto guy as in "You are my goto guy!" 
    
    any clues??

    How about "talking to an issue" as compared to "speaking to it"?

    "Off the record....." meaning I'll tell you this and if I hear it come
    around from somewhere else I know you leaked it!
    
    Mav

    Re: .73

    Go-to guy seems to come from sports talk radio.

    Usage: "If the Patriots are going to be successful, Drew Bledsoe needs
    a go-to guy."

    Translation: the Pats need a wide receiver who can catch more than a
    cold.

    Re: .74

    Yup.  When did "to" replace "about"?

    George

   re .74:  BZZZZT.  Talking [or speaking] ABOUT inanimate objects.
    
    "Growing" the business (vs. increasing it...)
    
    Leslie

    I don't have time to go through all the replies to see if
    this one is mentioned:
    
    		WORK SMARTER...
    
    [like I'm working dumber until someone made that suggestion.]
    
    Don't have enough "CYCLES" to go through all the replies to see
    if that was mentioned previously.

    One I like is "thrashing" which happens when a computer spends all of
    its cycles moving data into memory and never does useful work.
    
    Often due to "reprioritization"
    

    Back in the days of Digital Consulting (remember Gresh!?) I recall a
    comment about one of our salespersons who was abandoning customers
    (or "clients" in the vernacular of DC) right and left.  A management
    consultant for one of my projects said, "I think she's in the process
    of disengaging!"
    
    At the time, knowing exactly what he meant, I could not think a word
    that was better.

    "reprioritization"
    
    Umm. I just had the following dialogue:
    
    Me: "When will W95 be installed on my pc, it was going to be done 4
    weeks ago ?"
    Him: "It can't be done yet."
    Me: "Why not?"
    Him: "It hasn't got a high enough priority"
    Me:  "Why not?"
    Him: "It's been given a lower priority!"
    Me: "Aha!"
    
    Let's face it, we could have saved a lot of time if he had had the
    above. I would have been gobstoppered straight away.

    leave a message on my voicemail and i'll get back with you
    
    
    Yeah, right!

    "*You* are the SW Engineer I can always turn to when I need to have
           some 'spaghetti-code' created!"
    
    OK, so it's Geek Humor, so sue me.
    

    
    "Surfing the Web" is a not-so-new term that at certain times of the
    day (when the network is busy) is terribly wrong.
    
    I wonder if it is more adequate to say "rowing" or "wading" :-)
    
    - Maurizio
    

         These things are very group-specific.  Digital talks about 
    leverage, push back and now, Gawd 'elp us, marketing "collateral" (by 
    which I think people mean "material".  Has anyone asked, "Collateral 
    to what?")
         
         When I was in ICL (U.K. computer company) we would talk about 
    pullthrough, as in "Systems pull through services" and -- the 
    sensitive should switch off -- a legopener.  (You don't need too much 
    imagination to understand that one.)
         
         Some of my favourite abominations: learnings, "my take on that", 
    historic data.  And while I'm at it, it's "lose" not "loose" and 
    kudos is singular.

    Good ones, Dave, insensitive or not.  The language, as she is spoke.
    And broke.
    
    What *I* find amusing about our/business's use of the term "collateral"
    is that the MILITARY business has also decided to play the fast & loose
    euphemism game with it.  So now, when I hear marketeers talking about
    collateral, I can't help seeing Pentagon SpokesPersons discussing
    "collateral damage."
              

    Dan:
    
    At least the military "know" what their meaning is when they use it,
    inlike others....

 
    >>   Now that is culled from the words and style of an English marketing 
    >>   manager I knew in another company some years back.
    
    
    I assume he was marketing something other than English ?
    
    Graham

>    "Surfing the Web" is a not-so-new term that at certain times of the
>    day (when the network is busy) is terribly wrong.
>    
>    I wonder if it is more adequate to say "rowing" or "wading" :-)

"Adrift on the Web" is the term that comes to mind... with the image
of being on a raft on a calm sea in the middle of a vast ocean.

    We recently had some filing cabinets temporarily moved out of the lab
    while the floor was replaced.  They were "defacilitated" and "brought
    back on-line."
    
    One I've heard recently is "the wood behind the arrow," a/k/a the
    shaft, though that's not the connotation the speaker intends.  Lately
    "the target in front of the arrow" might be more appropriate.
    
    Jamie

    Pardon my insufferable boosterism, but the vastness of the ocean is not
    so daunting when you have a compass...  See personal_name above.
    

================================================================================
Note 4629.29                      Sun Micro ad                          29 of 46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re.27:

This is being actioned in the UK. I can't speak for the rest of the world.
              ^^^^^^^^

    "take off line" == discuss after the meeting

"Surfing the Web" is often "treading water."

    Becalmed on the web (except be FRUSTRATED would be closer)

Someone mentioned "repurposing" at a documentation meeting this week.
It's supposed to mean taking existing technical information and redoing
it, so to speak, for a new medium (i.e., the Web).

 

    RE Surfing the net ...
    
    That's because World Wide Web is based on a Client-Surfer design.

  Yes, "learnings" is an abomination.

  I keep wanting to say, "Let that be a learning to you."

Re "collateral damage" - let's not be too quick to reward the military for
incisive language. The Pentagon and the various branches of the military are
regularly recognized with "doublespeak" awards. Remember "arbitrary deprivation
of life"?

    Am I missing the point, Steve?  I didn't think my note was anything
    close to rewarding the military, but rather lumping it in with the same
    sort of doublespeak that we in Fortune-500Land use as well.  Just that
    after the Captains of the MILITARY finish squonking a word, it seems
    rather unfair to for the Captains of INDUSTRY to march over the same
    territory and attempt to ravish it again -- and curiously ineffective.
    

Transgendered (DECplus note #????). Is this what sex
you are if you're born in Transylvania?

Jay

RE .100 - Actually, I was referring to .87, I was just too lazy to hunt it down.
I guess the point is, the *military* may know it means blow up
everything/everyone unfortunate enough to be near a target, but people try to
obscure the full meaning by using language that is unfamiliar and obtuse to the
rest of us. Thus, Transitional Financial Support Option sounds like a pretty
good thing!

    Ah, I see, but I think you're giving the military too much credit. 
    You say that THEY understand what they mean, but (to me) gloss the
    point that they hope WE don't.
    
    Anyone who could say "collateral damage" instead of "we blew up stuff
    we weren't aiming at" and "arbitrary deprivation of life" instead of
    "they got killed" could just as easily say "While restructuring to our
    core competencies, we were forced to play the ADOJC (Arbitrary
    Deprivation Of Job Card), but this caused collateral damage amongst
    troop morale, so we decided that we should rename ADOJC to Transitional
    Financial Support Option (TFSO)."
    
    :-)
    
    In other woids, a euphemism's a euphemism, and both Industry & the
    Military use 'em for exactly the same reason.  Imho.  And I think we
    agree!

re Note 4640.25 by DRDAN::KALIKOW:

>     He may not have won legions of admirers amongst those who left or were
>     forced to leave during that effort -- or even amongst those who are
>     still here.  But I'll wager that -- friends or no -- there are FAR more
>     of us here now, than there would be had Bob Palmer NOT done his thing.  
  
        It's a wager whose outcome is unknowable.

        I used to, grudgingly, agree with this position, but we don't
        know what else could have happened instead.

        Certainly if *nothing* had been done, Digital would have been
        in bankruptcy in short order, under the control of imposed
        management.

        But would someone else who came in as a new president have
        done nothing -- of course not!

        Another possible outcome would have been for Digital to have
        been acquired by another company.  That would have resulted
        in massive downsizing and many parts of the business being
        sold off.  But isn't that what happened, anyway?  And if that
        happened we probably would have had even greater changes in
        upper management, and we might have picked up some good
        traits from the parent company (e.g., aggressive marketing).

        Of course, we'll never know.  Since Digital is still having
        to act internally as if it were in desperate financial
        condition (which may well be true), then it is premature to
        conclude that the company has been "saved" -- it may just be
        a slow, lingering death.

        Mr. Palmer does get credit for keeping the company from
        bankruptcy and for maintaining sales during the restructuring
        (assuming that the restructuring is over, which I don't).  I
        think it is pure speculation to say that he saved jobs (other
        than for certain parts of upper management).

        Bob

    Re: .88
    
    Err.. yes. Himself, I think. He's one of those types who manages to get
    promotion before the reality of his efforts is percieved to have a 
    brown tinge.
    
    He was "encouraged" to look elsewhere, and now he's a share-option 
    millionaire here in the UK.
    
    John 

re.85:

>    leverage, push back and now, Gawd 'elp us, marketing "collateral" (by 
>    which I think people mean "material".  Has anyone asked, "Collateral 
>    to what?")

Collateral to the message of course!

Dave.

       
    
    Anyone heard of 'Assetization', not that we have many things left.
    
    Cheers
    Sridhar
    
    	

    I have been testing the Multia products, which have been
    moved on to the PC Business Unit.  I just got the "official"
    notification today (thru email) of this, hence I am
    moving on to testing other project in Components & Perphials.
      Anyway, in the memo, check out this quote, "...we will continue 
    to perform rationalization and optimization of the Multia product line..."
    
    WHAT?????
    
    --Brian
    
                

    Meaning Multia didn't have enuf volume to justify a separate design
    from what the PCBU already makes.

    Low Hanging Fruit - when there is something (work) that should've been
    			performed long time ago, but it still hanging
    			loose, or as they say 'fell through the crack'.
    
    Sink or Swin - old Deccie term meaning, we won't traing you, however
    		   you must perform your job (what ever it is - we won't
    		   tell) efficiently and effectively or you will be sent
    		   packing 'pronto'!!!!
    
    Rightsizing - lay-off or impending lay-off.
    
    Hiring Freeze - we will only hire temps.
    
    Seamless Effort - when no one knows what is going on.  
    

      Re: An earlier reply..
    
    >>  "I hear where you're coming from."
    
    Here in the UK, that _could_ be taken as an insult.
    
    "I hear where you're coming from".. yes I know what you're saying
    and it's.. (striving to be polite) less than rational.
    
    jb
      
        

Let's not forget "internalize" .

  and then there is:

	Functional Specification  (as opposed to Disfunctional spec?) -
		I have seen both.

	as in "The DW-widget Functional Specification"

	Doesn't "DW-widget Function Specification" work a bit better?

    If the specification does its job of communicating the details well
    enough, it's a functional specification, right?

       
    
>    Anyone heard of 'Assetization', not that we have many things left.
    
 

Yup. FY95, Q1 Logistics process to change the way (financially) the field 
handles product used to service equipment.

   	

A metaphor which is apparently popular within Microsoft (I heard it used
twice by two different Microsoft employees, including a VP);

			"Eating your own dog food",

meant to suggest "we're using our own products", (and apparently enjoying
the experience).



Another favorite metaphor recently noted by the NY Times in an article on
downsizing;
			"Drowning the kittens",

is attributed to a Canadian banker.  It does a nice job reversing the trend
to *prettify* (had to do it) the nasty word layoff.

Dennis

RE: .115

	Yes, there is even a Dogfood Lab at Microsoft. That is where the
	systems that were testing Exchange with live users live(d).

						mike

    ... is my favorite alternative to "downsizing".
    
    
    
    
    
    I guess you have to apply a form of bulemian logic to run a
    downsizing effort ...

> A metaphor which is apparently popular within Microsoft (I heard it used
> twice by two different Microsoft employees, including a VP);
> 
> 			"Eating your own dog food",
> 
> meant to suggest "we're using our own products", (and apparently enjoying
> the experience).

  As documented in the book "Showstoppers" (about the development
  of Windows/NT), this phrase was in wide use in Dave Cutler's
  "Windows/NT" development area; the phrase may originate with
  Cutler.  (I'm sure he'd *CLAIM* it originates with him -- all
  good ideas do.) It sounds a lot like his blunt manor of speech
  except that the last word may occasionally have been different.
 
                                   Atlant

RE .110 - I always thought "low-hanging fruit" meant easy pickings, with no
effort required. Just reach up and pluck one off instead of having to climb the
tree for the hard-to-reach stuff. I guess some of these metaphors get twisted
around over time.

    Atlant,
    I like that "blunt manor of speech", sort of the opposite of the modern
    corporation, including ours, which might be called, "the cardboard
    house of euphemism." May we become a more "blunt manor of speech!" 

I think the "blunt speech" Atlant was refering to was rude, abusive and vulgar.
From what I have heard, there are still plenty of euphemisms.

    It drives me nuts!
    
    Why do managers think the words 'affect' and 'effect' are
    interchangeable?
    
    The phrase "We are going to effect a change which will affect the way
    you work" is correct, isn't it?
    
    Then why say "We are going to effect a change which will effect the way
    you work"???
    
    Oh and another thing, "I hear what you say". What this really means is,
    whats that buzzing in my ear, wish it'd go away.

RE: .122 -< Affect this effectively!! >-
    
>    Why do managers think the words 'affect' and 'effect' are
>    interchangeable?
 
It isn't just managers who make that mistake.

I started noticing major (>20 per book) numbers of typographical errors
in the books I read starting about 5 years ago.  It has gotten so bad that
I have kept a small pool with myself, where the different publishers are
in competition for the most errors per number of books published.

What does this have to do with 'affect' and 'effect' you say?  Well, the
types of errors changed dramatically 5 years ago.  Before then, the errors
were honest typos: interchanged letters, simple mis-spellings, etc.  Starting
about 5 years ago the mis-spellings stopped and the use of the *wrong* word
began, such as 'affect' for 'effect' or vice-versa.

The answer is obvious, of course.  Both the publishers and the people here
down-sized their people who reviewed the text: publishers cut copy editors
and Digital cut secretaries, all of whom were very good at catching errors
like that, and replaced them with spell-checkers, which will catch the typos
but won't catch the wrong word which is spelled correctly.

Be prepared to see a **LOT** more of this kind of thing everywhere... :-(

-- Ken Moreau

    Another reason is because they started using automated spell checkers.
    These will catch the mis-spelled words, but not those used in the wrong
    way.
    
    	Yaacov

    This sort of thing has been going on for years:
    
    Insure and Ensure
    Inquire and Enquire
    License and Licence
    Practise and Practice
    
    and so on...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    its vs. it's
    their vs. they're vs. there

    These are the ones that kill me.  Simple as pie to get right
    but not worth anyone's bother... including professionals such
    as copy writers, newspaper editors, and secretaries.  Let 
    alone engineers.

    The language is actually changing.  Eventually perhaps 
    everything will be spelled phonetically, an ironic consequence
    of the pervasiveness of written communication.

    Tom

    I hate it personally. In the UK we are continually going on about the
    education system not being what it was, kids can't spell etc.
    
    And then we have (some of us) the gall, to write drivel which is
    gramatically and syntactically incorrect.
    
    No excuse for it.
    
    Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    I once ran a team of thirty scientific programmers who couldn't spell
    for toffee whereas I am a spell checker.  But then I couldn't integrate.  
    Of the two I thought mine was the more trivial skill.
    
    dave_P

>    And then we have (some of us) the gall, to write drivel which is
                                           ^------
>    gramatically and syntactically incorrect.    \
                                                   \
                                                    \
                                                     ahem...

    No it dusnt matta. I dont no wot they are goin on abaht. Most of it is
    caused by elitist educationalists who want to standardise everything
    and create rules about how a language should be used. If you
    communicate honestly what is the problem? The point about the jargon is
    that it is often used to avoid honesty. 
    
    spellecheckers are grate for people like me wiv dyslexia. Einstein had
    it so bad he couldn.t do up is shoelaces. So did Leonardo, but it
    didn't stop them didit? 
    
    

    Was there an echo in there, or what???
    
    Hey .124, you need a READ-checker as well as a SPELL-?? :-)
    

    re .131
    
    Err. Well done Paul, you spotted my incorrect use of the comma.
    
    Damn!

    Well, you don't have to be a Master Chef to appreciate a good dinner,
    
    but it helps.
    
    And before I finish, I'd just like to say that a good Functional 
    Specification, like any good technical document, or indeed any
    business communication document should be open to one, and only
    one interpretation.
    
    That's it. The rest is utter time-wasting rubbish.
    
    Regards,
    
    John

[Names removed to protect the innocent]
    
From:	KAOMxx::WALL         "Another Brick in the...."  1-JUN-1987 08:59
To:	
Subj:	xxxxxx: of no fixed address.

Shawniel.

Howzit goin?

I wuz just wunderin if u cud tell mi ware i mite find waldo
awn the netwurk. I trid xxxx on xxxxv4 & 3 but kno such uzer wuz found.
I think hez stil n towrana but i thot eyed try and male him a knote.
How wuz yor weak end  aniwai. I enjoied yesterdai, wachin the wrain
cum doun and the gras (weads) gro up. Fridae i bot a wridin moer so
i downt miend if the stuf groes.

wrawb.

    re .126
    
    It's ... a contraction of it is.  
    
    C.

    I increasingly hear the substitution of the word "flush" for the word
    "flesh".
    
    Example: let's flush out that idea later.
    
    When I first heard it used, I thought that the speaker was using a
    hunting metaphor.  Somehow we would sneak up to the where the idea was
    hiding, startle it, flush it out, and then start shooting at it.
    
    Given the quality of ideas at meetings recently, I now respond:
    
    "no, I think that we should flush that idea right now."

    And my favorite of the last year or two:
    
    "must of" instead of "must've"
    
    e.g. "He must of gone to the movies instead of the library."

>    e.g. "He must of gone to the movies instead of the library."

How about, "He must have gone to the movies instead of the library."?

	mikeP

    
    	Yes, Mike, I believe that .141 knew the correct usage and was
    	giving an example of the incorrect, currently popular usage.
    

>    I increasingly hear the substitution of the word "flush" for the word
>    "flesh".
>    
>    Example: let's flush out that idea later.

actually, I've heard a number of ideas that are better off being flushed...

-mark

I saw a note in this conference in which someone spelled 'received' wrong.  I
did an altavista search on 'recieved' and 'recieve' and found almost 43000 hits.
Then I did a search through the newsgroups and found almost 14000 hits. 

I don't know if it means anything or not, but I wonder how much information
people CAN'T find due to spelling mistakes...

-mark

    Interesting way to find how bad things are. I note there are over
    19k references to "accomodate" [sic].

    How hard would it be, I wonder, to combine a spelling checker/corrector
    into the AltaVista search engine?  I know I make at least my share of
    fat-fingered typos, and my spelling ability is no better than most
    people's is, either.
    
    /Charlotte

    
    	Thesaurus functionality (end-user customizable) would be a
    	nice enhancement to Alta Vista to help handle these situations
    	as well as increasing the 'sophistication level' of the search.
    
    Dennis

    
    	Are there tools available to "anticipate" common spelling mist-
    	akes and either correct automatically or verify with the author
    	before correcting?
    

    It will never be accepted by me...
    
    Stu

RE:  <<< Note 4640.145 by NOTAPC::SEGER "This space intentionally left blank" >>>

>> I don't know if it means anything or not, but I wonder how much information
>> people CAN'T find due to spelling mistakes...

    Only this week I answered a posting in rec.antiques from a person who
    claimed to be a "collector" bemoaning the fact that she was unable to
    find any information on Royal Daulton[sic] on the Web. Of course, as
    any collector should know, it's "Doulton", and there's a lot of
    information out there.
    
    "Congradulations" is another example of (American) phonetic spelling
    gone mad, which I see quite frequently. As I see it, there are two
    reasons for this trend towards illiteracy. Firstly, many people are
    simply too idle to bother with correct grammar and spelling (but seem
    to be able to find the energy to defend themselves vigourously), and
    secondly, poor educational standards.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

re Note 4640.151 by JGODCL::APETERS:

>     On a their-there-the're etc note: us people from abroad, who learned
>     english in school, can have a hard time when these are interchanged.
>     Mis-use breaks the logic in the sentence. I hope it will never be
>     accepted to interchange them.
  
        Well, it already is accepted in *spoken* English.

        Bob

                                ALTERNATE (n.)
    
    If you had AN alternate it would have to occur every other time.  I
    don't think you mean that.
    
    dave_P

 "Significant differences exits between NT users and users of other
  platforms, in demographics and psychographics."
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

from NT USERS PROFILES AND PERCEPTIONS Research Notes, Sentry Market
Research, May 1996 (and Reader's Choice).
                   
Probably legitimate but a strange piece of jargon.  Perhaps it means
pictures drawn by Norman Bates.

Dennis

I had a co-worker who saw nothing wrong with "analization".

BobW

>I had a co-worker who saw nothing wrong with "analization".

Reminds me of people who discuss whether to have some bit of work done "in
house" or "out house." That brings us back to "flush," or lack thereof.

    

    One of my favorite Digitalisms is "issue." There's never a problem,
    concern, difficulty, disagreement, question, puzzle, dilemma, or
    uncertainty here in DECworld. No, only ISSUES. And, of course, it's
    never an ISSUE about, concerning, anent, in re, or anything else but
    AROUND, as noted in .46.
    
    Dick T.

> Insure and Ensure
> Inquire and Enquire
> License and Licence
> Practise and Practice

> They're, Their, and There
> It's and Its
> Who's and Whose

  To which one might (now) add "manor" and "manner" (and perhaps
  "manure"?). Generally speaking, I *KNOW* the difference, but for
  some reason, the word just doesn't get to my fingers in time.
  Its there job to insure that I Hughes the write won, butt four
  sum reason, the massage doesn't get their.

                                   Atlant

> Insure and Ensure
> Inquire and Enquire
> License and Licence
> Practise and Practice

    Okay, I'll bite.  What is the difference between these?  I always
    thought they were alternate, British spellings for the same words.
    
    Larry
    

  Well, according to my dictionary, some *ARE* simply alternate spellings.

  *BUT*...

  "Ensure" means to take steps to guarantee a certain occurence.
  For example, "I locked the door to ensure the safety of my stuff."

  "Insure" is to obtain a financial instrument that will pay you back
  if something bad happens. "I insured my stuff just in case a nasty
  thief steals it anyway."

  "Assure" is to inspire confidence. "Honest, officer, I assure
  you that I locked the door!".

  Unless you're British in which case "assure"="insure", too.

                                   Atlant

    
         I'm afraid that participation on a network makes you much more
    likely to begin misspelling or misusing words.  I had never seen the
    misspelling "definately" before I saw it on Digital's network.  After
    that, several other people began using it.  The same thing happens on 
    the internet.
    
         Have fun with it.  When somebody says: "Your ugly!", answer by
    saying "My ugly WHAT?"
    
                                      Greg  

fallacious or fellatious?

    The former is merely wrong; the latter is illegal in some states! :)
    

    Re: .164
    
    "Assure" and "insure" - strictly speaking, in Britain, "assurance"
    applies only Life assurance - fire, accident, motor etc. are insurance.
    
    Life assurance is the only case that you can be assured of the event
    happening (for traditional whole of life assurance at least).
    
    BTW
    Licence and license - one's a noun, one's a verb.

RE:                     <<< Note 4640.162 by PLESIO::SOJDA >>>
>>                              -< New ones for me >-
>> 
>> > Insure and Ensure
>> > Inquire and Enquire
>> > License and Licence
>> > Practise and Practice
>> 
>>     Okay, I'll bite.  What is the difference between these?  I always
>>     thought they were alternate, British spellings for the same words.
    
    Atlant has (correctly) covered insure and ensure, but he's wrong on
    assure=insure in Britain, as he demonstrated by his example. As the
    previous noter pointed out, in the Insurance business, there is some
    confusion
    
    "Inquire" is to look into, and "enquire" is to ask about. One would never
    see a Public Enquiry, for instance, and one would never see a help desk
    labelled "Inquiries", rather "Enquiries".
    
    "Licence/License" and "Practice/Practise" are noun/verb in exactly the
    same way the Advice/Advise are, which are better known simply because
    they, unlike the others, are pronounced differently. However, even that
    considered, I often see Advice/Advise incorrectly used.
    
    Increasingly I note that the distinction between all these pairings is
    becoming lost, which is to their detriment, and adds to the degradation
    of the language.
    
    HtH, Laurie.

re Note 4640.169 by PLAYER::BROWNL:

>     Increasingly I note that the distinction between all these pairings is
>     becoming lost, which is to their detriment, and adds to the degradation
>     of the language.
  
        We're becoming a post-literary society.

        Spoken language came first.

        Then writing was devised to record language.

        Now we have the technology to convey, relay, and record
        spoken language to any level of fidelity -- including with
        video to capture body language.

        Writing is a technology that has been with us for a long,
        long time.  I don't think it will ever completely disappear
        from use (far from it, I suspect!).  However, it seems only
        to be expected that distinctions that are primarily
        distinctions in *written* language will in many cases be
        lost.

        Bob

    My latest aggravation point is interchanging then with than. At first I
    thought it was only one or two people who were doing it, but now it
    seems to be rampant. 

    I can't figure out how people confuse the two, since they are spelled
    differently, pronounced differently and mean totally different things.

    Than again, I suppose it's more important to be understood then
    correct. 
    
    Just kidding, I know then has to do with time and than has to do with
    comparison ...

May I suggest taking this discussion to THEBAY::JOYOFLEX?  Thanks.

					Steve

re .157
>I had a co-worker who saw nothing wrong with "analization".

Reminds me of the story I read in an English newspaper (think it was the
Daily Telegraph) a few years ago.

The secretary of an accounting firm wrote a letter to a lawyer informing
him that the accounting fees were going up and were to be "paid annally".

The lawyer wrote back and said that was OK with him, as he was getting
sick and tired of paying through the nose.

Re: .169
According to the American Heritage Dictionary, which is the dictionary provided
to Digital employees here in the USA, license and practice are both verbs and
nouns and enquire has both of the meanings Laurie mentioned as belonging to 
enquire and inquire. It further describes inquire as a variant of enquire.

So the ignorance here is of the differences in American English and British 
English, not necessarily one of mis-spelling, nor of using the wrong word for
the meaning intended. 

Marie

    That's right Marie, but it goes much further, or indeed farther than
    that. The drive to standardise (dize) the English language has been
    accompanied by the discrimination against regional accents and usage in
    the workplace and in schools. What right have the toffs of Oxford and
    Cambridge got to decide what is right and what is wrong ? I have heard
    the opinion expressed that American English is actually different to
    the (Queen's, Oxford, BBC)English because of the lack of education of
    those who speak American English. The Australian journalist John Pilger
    has described some quite funny incidents of discrimination against
    colleagues who had too thick an Aussie accent. 
    
    Am I right in thinking there is similar discrimination against people
    from the South of the USA? 
    
    Perhaps the worst case of Language discrimination was the long effort
    to eradicate the Irish language.My mother's parents spoke Irish, but
    she was taught English. Some of the structure she uses would not be
    seen as correct by the rule-makers, but so what? It seems to me that
    some of what is American English has been brought in by the rich
    variety of people who migrated there. It should be valued and
    respected. 
    
    Let's use language to discuss openly with each other, and if we feel
    like inventing a few new Wurdz, then why not? Digital has its own
    culture, why shouldn't it have its own bits of language to celebrate?
    
    Kevin  

As an ex-pat Brit in the U.S. I have enjoyed studying the two variants of the language.  Each has varied from 
the common root, although Webster did clearly perform an overhaul to reduce irregular forms so that 
English was easier to learn for the non-English speaking immigrant population.

Even so, there are many, many words which England has corrupted, and the U.S. maintains the original 
form.   Some examples:

Orientate: Backward corruption from orientation.

Got (past participle): Corruption of gotten.  (Would the English consider "I have forgot your name" to be 
good English?)

Aluminium: Changed earlier this century by scientists who didn't like aluminum not rhyming with sodium, 
etc.


BTW, I was taught (in the U.K.) that ensure means to make certain it happens, assure means to convince 
that it will happen, and insure means to provide protection against it not happening.  One cannot ensure 
that it will rain, but one can assure another that it will, and one can insure against it.

Yes, Kevin, people from the South, with their "Southern Accent" are looked
down upon when they travel north, and the opposite is true, too. All the
regions have somewhat different pronunciations, although the influence of
radio and TV announcers has mitigated that a good deal over the last 
generation. Now almost everyone has TV and hears the national broadcasting
"non-regional" voice, so everyone knows how words are "supposed" to be 
pronounced. I expect that the regional differences in pronunciation will melt 
away completely over time. What may not change is the regional choice of
words to describe the same or similar items. For instance the utensil one
fries eggs in is called a spider in the Mid-west, a frying pan in the South,
a skillet in some parts and a griddle in others. I could give you a whole
list of things I had to learn new names for, when I moved from Texas to
New England. :>)

In addition to all the various countries that contributed bits and pieces 
of their languages as well as ship loads of people, our language has been
enriched by the Native American tribes' contributions, too. 

I feel it behooves all of us to not just be tolerant of the culture of 
others, but to learn about, appreciate and value those cultures. Only
by doing so, can we expect others to value and appreciate ours. 

Marie

             <<< Note 4640.176 by STOWOA::16.125.64.181::nbufton >>>
                   -< The language corruptions go both ways >-

As an ex-pat Brit in the U.S. I have enjoyed studying the two variants of the
language.  Each has varied from the common root, although Webster did clearly
perform an overhaul to reduce irregular forms so that English was easier to
learn for the non-English speaking immigrant population. 

Even so, there are many, many words which England has corrupted, and the U.S.
maintains the original form.   Some examples: 

Orientate: Backward corruption from orientation. 

Got (past participle): Corruption of gotten.  (Would the English consider "I
have forgot your name" to be good English?) 

Aluminium: Changed earlier this century by scientists who didn't like aluminum
not rhyming with sodium, etc. 


BTW, I was taught (in the U.K.) that ensure means to make certain it happens,
assure means to convince that it will happen, and insure means to provide
protection against it not happening.  One cannot ensure that it will rain, but
one can assure another that it will, and one can insure against it. 

    >For instance the utensil one
    >fries eggs in is called a spider in the Mid-west, a frying pan in the South,
    >a skillet in some parts and a griddle in others. 
    
    That's interesting.  While I'm familiar with "frying pan," "skillet,"
    and "griddle,"  I've never heard "spider" used in this context.  I grew
    up in Ohio and now live in Michigan (which at least *used* to be in
    the Midwest).  Although there may be other regional usages, a griddle
    is typically square or rectangular (and very shallow), while a skillet 
    is round.  Of course one could fry eggs on either.

>    That's interesting.  While I'm familiar with "frying pan," "skillet,"
>    and "griddle,"  I've never heard "spider" used in this context.  I grew
>    up in Ohio and now live in Michigan (which at least *used* to be in
>    the Midwest).  Although there may be other regional usages, a griddle
>    is typically square or rectangular (and very shallow), while a skillet 
>    is round.  Of course one could fry eggs on either.

And I've spent YEARS in Minnesota and Wisconsin ... and have never heard of 
a "spider" either!  Where does it come from??

Margo

re spider:

I have heard that word used for a skillet/frypan/etc but only a few times.  I
think my grandfather may have used this word.  He was not from the Midwest but
(far) northern New York.

Another object with many many different regional words is sub/hoagie/grinder
etc. for the sandwich on a long roll.

re .176:

Another English corruption is "burgle", a back formation of "burglar" treated
as if it it had the "-er" ending which could be removed.  The American word
meaning the same thing (burglarize) is awkward, however.

-Mike

    makes great cornbread...round iron skillet, divided into 8 sections

    re spider:
    
        I have heard that word used for a skillet/frypan/etc but only a few
        times.  I think my grandfather may have used this word.  He was not
        from the Midwest but (far) northern New York.
    
    Which would seem to correlate with my knowing it, and I'm from New
    England.
    

    >>    I have heard that word used for a skillet/frypan/etc but only a few
    >>    times.  I think my grandfather may have used this word.  He was not
    >>    from the Midwest but (far) northern New York.
    
    Having lived in (far) northern New York most of my life, I've never
    heard this term either.  Maybe it really is a spillover from New
    England.
    
    

    I know a "spider pan" to be a cast-iron skillet; all spiders are
    frying pans, but not all frying pans are spiders.  I guess i assumed
    that Spider was a? the original? brand name.
    
    Leslie (born in Worcester, MA)

    Little-known fact: the verb "to escalate" is a backwards derivation
    from the trade name Escalator.
    

I looked up "spider" in the dictionary and, other than the arachnid and other
nonrelevant definitions, spider meant "a skillet, originally a skillet with
legs to support it above a fire".  No regional association was listed.  Another
definition was a tripod or stand to support a pot above a fire.

-Mike

    Hey folx, there seems a lot of you who would enjoy all the wordplay we
    indulge in over THEBAY::JOYOFLEX-way.  Iffen we are not going to
    further skewer the DIGITAL way of neologisms in this string, then may I
    humbly request that you press KP7 and join us over there as we debate
    who debased whose language, whose skillet is used in Worcester, and
    other linguistic stuff?  I am sure that the local Modstabulary would
    applaud us as we go...
    
    ... and we could use the new blood ... :-)
                                                                      

Indeed, we would, and I am disabling further replies here as an inducement...

			Steve