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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

2568.0. "Digital's new brand image" by RDGENG::NEWBERRYH () Mon Jul 05 1993 13:08

    DIGITAL'S NEW BRANDING POLICY
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    
    As you all probably know by now, Digital has introduced a new brand
    image.  I am a placement student at Digital Park, and am studying the
    area of brand identity for my dissertation.
    
    I have already picked up a fair bit of information and opinions from
    other notes conferences as to general thoughts on the matter.  However,
    to get some more specific information, I have decided to create a notes
    conference of my own.
    
    What I really want is your opinions on how you think that Digital is
    going to communicate this new brand within an environment with so many
    constraints.  This new image intends to promote Digital as a customer
    focused company that puts imagination first.  However there are many
    constraints such as quality, finances, employee morale which are all
    barriers to the creativity and imagination Digital is trying to acheive.
    
    So far I have seen no change in the approach people are taking to work
    or indeed the work they are producing.  So the question must be, how
    are employees promoting the new image, is there a difference in the
    work that is being produced?  I know it is just the start of the brand
    campaign, but I am interested in seeing how Digital aim to put the
    promises to work.  I hope that everything that they want to be acheived
    is acheived.  At first I thought that it was all a waste of time as did
    many other people.  However, when I discovered more information, I did
    actually understand the motives behind it all.  I think one main
    problem is that many people still don't really know why it was done and
    so on, they just think it is a waste of money.  
    
    Anyway, all comments on any of this stuff are welcome.
    
    
    Cheers,                                              
    
    Hannah
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2568.1KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Mon Jul 05 1993 14:1719
We have heard about the brand campaign through the grapevine; VOGON news, NOTES
conferences, etc...  I don't remember it being directly communicated to us
from our direct line of management.

I really don't see how we can effectively and consistently communicate our
views on Digital - resulting in the enhancement of our image - if we're not
given some *guidelines* and official information from above.

I can suggest what *I think* can help, i.e. post *customer focused* posters
and banner messages around *everywhere*, but that doesn't mean it will get
done in every Digital office worldwide.  Also it's one thing to post such
messages around, it's another thing to change employees' opinions on that
particular subject matter so that we can at least relay the same messages to
our customers.

Every little bit helps 

/Mario
2568.2Respect the confidentiality of Digital conferencesSTAR::BECKPaul BeckMon Jul 05 1993 14:555
    Keep in mind that anything you read in Digital notes conferences is to
    be considered company confidential information, and is not to be
    considered public information. As such (this is a personal, not a legal
    opinion), it should not be used or referenced in an outside publication
    such as a dissertation.
2568.3RE: confidentialityRDGENG::NEWBERRYHMon Jul 05 1993 15:437
    In relation to company confidentiality, I will have any information I
    wish to include checked before it is used in my dissertation.  At
    present I am just collecting general feedback to help me get a feel of
    what people are thinking.  I do not intend to quote people or use
    internal confidential information.  I am currently discussing the
    matter of what I can and can't use with a member of Internal
    Communications, so I do not think there will be a problem.
2568.4Are we prepared??RDGENG::NEWBERRYHMon Jul 05 1993 15:477
    Do I get the impression it that there is a general lack of information 
    amongst employees in relation to the branding policy?  As Digital have 
    started advertising in papers, I take it they have begun their campaign. 
    Therefore I would have thought that we should all be communicating
    their ideas in any work we do.  Is that not the case across all the
    locations?  Within my department, I certainly feel that many people are
    not as aware as they should be of the transition.
2568.5Please explain it to meSMAUG::GARRODFrom VMS -> NT, Unix a future page from historyMon Jul 05 1993 16:1446
    Well here's my view.
    
    It's a total waste of money. I've read several of the articles on this
    new branding campaign in the various "happy news" internal rags and
    still have absolutely NO idea why we're doing it and what it will
    achieve.
    
    How the hell can you build up a brand identity around the most generic
    adjective ("digital") in the computer industry? Surely the people who
    invented this idiocy aren't vain enough to believe that when people
    think of digital computer they'd think of Digital Equipment
    Corporation. And anyway the adjective "digital" is more associated with
    watches than computers.
    
    Name one other company that has successfully taken a common old
    adjective from the language and turned it into a brand name. Yes I
    agree the opposite has been done eg with Kleenex as adjective to tissue
    and Xerox as adjective to copier. and Kodak as adjective to film. But
    as far as I'm aware no existing adjectival words have become well known
    brand names.
    
    So since you seem to understand why and how this branding campaign is
    going to be so successful please enlighten the rest of us.
    
    And oh yes when I see the "I"magine adverts I immediately think of AT&T
    who seems to have been far more successful in exploiting the "I" than
    Difital has.
    
    In my view we'd have been far more successful in trying to build a
    brand name around "DEC" by taken the current "digital" logo and
    integrated "DEC" into it. Maybe by highlighting DEC as the first letter
    of the words and keeping the "digital" logo as part of it.
    
    I'd love to support this "branding" campaign but first I need to
    understand:
    
    	1, Why we're doing it
    	2, Why it is going to be successful
    	3, How we expect to get the adjective "digital" associated with our
    	    company
    	4, How the acronymn "DEC" plays into this
    
    The happy horseshit I've seen so far explaining the campaign doesn't
    hack it.
    
    Dave
2568.6PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outMon Jul 05 1993 18:4310
    Dave Garrod says it for me. Cracking note. The "branding" is a POS, in
    my opinion, and a criminal waste of money. I'd far rather it were spent
    on something useful..
    
    Oh, and congratulations Mr. Newberry, you're the first student I've
    seen noting in this company who's literate. Don't leave; I was
    beginning to despair of the English education system I escaped from so
    long ago.
    
    Laurie.
2568.7HAAG::HAAGRode hard. Put up wet.Mon Jul 05 1993 21:122
    while we may have had our differences in the past, mr. garrod is
    definitely right on this one. when will we ever learn?
2568.8re. 2568.4HAM03::VEEHIt's...Tue Jul 06 1993 05:317
2568.9Miss not Mr. Newberry!!!RDGENG::NEWBERRYHTue Jul 06 1993 09:2313
    In reply to .6, I am very pleased that you consider me literate.  I
    hope I have fully restored your faith in the education system. 
    However, I would just like to inform you that I am female - whoops.  OK no
    offence taken. 
    
    In relation to informing you all of the reasoning and so on behind the new
    branding policy, I will construct a note shortly.  I will base it on all I
    have picked up on so far and hope it will help those of you who still
    feel that there has been a lack of communication.
    
    Regards,
    
    Miss Hannah Newberry!!
2568.10Seen locally16BITS::DELBALSOI (spade) my (dog face)Tue Jul 06 1993 12:4110
The recent "good news rag" on branding which was sent to all employees was
quite timely and useful. In our group, which was pretty well decimated
by an eleventh hour budgetary decision on June 21st, one departing
individual took the "centerfold" - the picture of the shell crew which
was recommended to be posted in an effort to promote school spirit or
some such - and posted it outside his office with little pieces of
yellow sticky (contraband, no doubt) next to each rower. The pieces of
yellow sticky paper said "TFSO'ed".

-Jack
2568.11GWYNED::PCOTETurn it on first, then tryTue Jul 06 1993 12:5613

>    How the hell can you build up a brand identity around the most generic
>    adjective ("digital") in the computer industry? 

     Who really cares about the name ? I never thought the most
     generic noun "Apple" could be synonymous with a personal
     computer. I think the point about this branding campaign is to
     establish identity  outside the computer business so we have a 
     shot in the commodity market.

   
  
2568.12change is changeANARKY::BREWERnevermind....Tue Jul 06 1993 13:124
    ...all I remember about this campaign is that the dot over
    the "i" is round, not square.  That in itself ought to sell
    several thousand workstations.
    	/john
2568.13PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outTue Jul 06 1993 13:5336
2568.14To understand "Digital" you must understand our marketTLE::TOKLAS::FELDMANOpportunities are our FutureTue Jul 06 1993 14:0421
I'll bite.

>    How many other companies competing with Digital have the word
>    "digital" in their name? 

None.  Our competitors are IBM, HP, Sun, Andersen, EDS, Dell, Compaq, SGI,
Gateway, Seagate, Quantuum, Conner, Epson, Intel, Motorola, MIPS, and 
probably a few others.

>   How many competitive (to Digital) products incorporate the
>   word "digital" in their name? 

None.  

>   How many electronic products not produced by or complementing Digital, 
>   incorporate the word "digital" in their name?

A fair number, but what's the relevance?  We're not in the electronic
products market.

   Gary
2568.15Putting the cart before the horse....SPECXN::KANNANTue Jul 06 1993 14:1131
  Saying that lots of people bought Apple computers because of the
  name "Apple" is like saying that everytime I eat a banana it rains. I may
  have observed it a couple of times, may be even a hundred times, but
  still it doesn't make for cause and effect. People bought lots of Apple
  computers because it was cheap and easy to use at that time. The brand
  name promotion reinforced their opinion of the company. Not the other
  way around. When they see that the advantages they saw in Apple being
  no longer distinguishing ones, they are flocking to PC clones and Apple
  is worried about their revenues. That's why even their current "Easy-to-use"
  campaign is not working well enough since people don't see much more than a 
  little humor there.

  Brand names have their place when competitors have nothingelse to distinguish
  themselves from the others. Like Coke and Pepsi. They're in the market to
  sell "lifestyles" and that's the reason why you see all kinds of evocative
  promotion. Brand names serve a big purpose when there is not enough
  distinction between products; like Reebok and Nike.

  Technical selling has always been and will always be based on real and
  perceived value to the customer. Sustained perception of good value will
  then establish the name as a brand to be trusted; like IBM. This worked
  when customers weren't technically savvy. IBM's brand name isn't helping them
  anymore.

  If I am a customer, tell me what is it that you have that's head and shoulders
  above your competitors. I'll worry about your brand name later on.

  Fundamentals are always a good bet. Madison Avenue can come later on.

  Nari
2568.16GWYNED::PCOTETurn it on first, then tryTue Jul 06 1993 14:3619

  REP .14

  You obviously have a much stronger opinion concerning this branding
  campaign then myself. It's my understanding that this company is not
  well received or well recognized outside our immediate mainstream
  business. 

  If we intend to succeed, especially in the commodity market, then
  we'll have to change some outdated mindsets (i.e. many people equate
  us as a proprietary mini-computer company)

  My only concern is the future of this company. It's my opinion that
  we have great products but don't know how to market them. Perhaps
  this branding campaign is a small step in a bolder marketing
  strategy. I hope so. Maybe the branding campaign is a POS. But at
  least we're making an effort.
  
2568.17SDSVAX::SWEENEYYou are what you retrieveTue Jul 06 1993 14:5316
    It also seems odd that the company that wants "brand" "Digital" is not
    involved in the development and marketing of technologies that
    constitutes the digital revolution that has been discussed in the PC
    press, the business press, and the general media.

    This is not to say that because "Digital" isn't the first name that
    comes to mind in virtual reality products, that Digital must enter the
    VR market.

    "Digital" once referring a type of clock or watch now refers to digital
    encoding of audio, video, and text, or as Business Week describes it
    "Digital Interactive Multimedia".

    No, I think it's more realistic to look for a name other than "Digital"
    or "DEC".  Apple has a lot more at stake in "digital" technologies than
    Digital itself does.
2568.18What's wrong with setting expectations?PLOUGH::OLSENTue Jul 06 1993 17:0116
    re .15ff
    
    A technical sell, I guess, is when the customer is talking with you.
    
    As someone once pointed out, marketing is getting the customer to talk
    to you.
    
    I don't think we can win, with only a technical sell, to the vast
    majority of people, (i.e. those we are not now talking to, and those who
    feel threatened by anyone talking technical). Hence a brand-image sell.
    
    Of course, you have to deliver good product, helping the customer
    succeed.  But with a brand-image, or other marketing success, customers
    link your name with one or more of their perceived needs.  I'd sure
    expect increased sales if 90+% of the market related to Digital in that
    way.
2568.19Branding - my understandingRDGENG::NEWBERRYHTue Jul 06 1993 17:2157
    
    I get the feeling from all the comments coming in on this conference
    that there are many people who do not understand/do not agree with the
    new branding policy. Let me try to explain in the most successful way I can.
    
    Years ago, it was enough to have a logo.  Then, as more companies started 
    selling the same types of products, there was a need for something more to 
    make a company stand out.  At this point companies adopted a corporate 
    identity.  This was basically a style that was introduced throughout a 
    company that everyone adhered to.  Be it the way the logo was reproduced to
    the typeface people used in documentation, a consistent pattern was
    being established.
    
    People would feel comfortable and familiar with the style of a company,
    it would reflect quality and consistency.  Gradually all the major
    companies, such as IBM, ICL, and so on, started to sell products that
    were fundamentally the same.  A customer would be faced with a barrage
    of machines, all of a high quality, all doing the same types of things. 
    So how could they be helped in their decisions?  
    
    Something more was need to differentiate one company from the other.  
    Yes you have guessed it, a brand identity.  The concept of branding is 
    relatively new, many companies adopted one quickly, others have been slower
    on the uptake.
    
    Digital face the problem that they are not a well known company in
    terms of the general public.  So, they have to tackle this before it is
    too late.  The angle they have chosen to adopt is of a customer focused 
    company that turn the ideas of people into products.
    
    When someone is considering which company to bring in, Digital want to
    be considered AND chosen.  They want to promote a friendly and helpful
    workforce, so that people will want to come and use them again.
    
    I could go on for a lot longer, but I think the main points have been
    mentioned.  In relation to the logo and it's lack of changes.  The
    apparent reasoning behind that was the need for a subtle change.  However, 
    if Digital chose a totally new logo, they would loose the positive
    characteristics that were associated with the 'blue' Digital.  So, by
    changing the colour and the lettering, they were acheiving both aims. 
    
    These aims were to keep old customers and attract the new.  People
    familiar with the logo would not be confused and potential customers
    would be attracted by a more striking logo and brand image.
    
    OK enough of my sales pitch.  I have to say that with the understanding
    I have developed, I can agree with Digital's motives.  I must say that
    their timing leaves a little to be desired - I've yet to obtain
    reasoning behind that!
    
    Just because I've given you some reasoning doesn't mean you should stop
    commenting.  I want your comments on the reasoning I have given and
    also comments on how successfully you think the new brand is going to
    be communicated both to employees and customers (potential or current).
    
    Hannah 
                                                                          
2568.20The new paint won't cover in one coatCSOA1::GOBEYTue Jul 06 1993 18:2923
    I find it absolutely incredible that after more than 3 decades in
    business, we as a corporation, feel that Digital doesn't have an
    identity in the marketplace. The fact is that we do, indeed, have an
    identity and that's what's causing the problem. As my business mentor
    Arthur Fonzarelli (aka The Fonz) once said, "If you make your bed
    crummy, you'll wake up with wrinkles."
    
    The fact is that I really couldn't tell you what the logo looks like
    for Tiffany and Company. However, what they sell and how they sell it is
    crystal clear in my mind and in the minds of millions of people. I'm
    also old enough to remember the Edsel. The car had one of the most
    distinctive automotives features ever designed.....a really ugly
    grille. To this day, people still talk about the grille of this
    miserably failed product.
    
    The marketplace clearly knows what we're about. Unless we change how we
    sell, how we market, how we support and how we educate and bolster our
    own work force, circles or squares, burgundies or blues won't mean
    thing to our acceptance or bottom line.
    
    Changing a logo and launching a brand identity campaign only makes
    sense if you scrap what you currently do and build (re-engineer) a
    new company. 
2568.22TOPDOC::AHERNDennis the MenaceTue Jul 06 1993 20:3710
    RE: .20  by CSOA1::GOBEY 
    
    >I find it absolutely incredible that after more than 3 decades in
    >business, we as a corporation, feel that Digital doesn't have an
    >identity in the marketplace. The fact is that we do, indeed, have an
    >identity and that's what's causing the problem. 
    
    Maybe we're having an identity crisis.  Yes, that's it, an identity
    crisis.  Time now for some identity crisis management.
    
2568.23METSYS::THOMPSONTue Jul 06 1993 21:3124
When IBM was hot, a few years back, people (in this thread) would
proclaim how good their marketing was and how poor Digital's fared in
comparison. IBM always had good branding and got high marks from
contributors to this conference. 

How come when Digital tries to do it it is suddenly perceived
as badness? 

I too don't have high expectations of success, but let's at least give it
a try!


I also noticed how attention grabbing "digital" is becoming. It's the
hot new technology as far as the media are concerned. So we don't 
participate in this wave, but do people really know that? I think
the next few years will be a good time for anyone that can get
a positive association with that concept. In fact Digital technology 
needs the sort of high performance we have with Alpha. Surely
we'll be playing in that area soon?

Mark
 

2568.24SDSVAX::SWEENEYYou are what you retrieveTue Jul 06 1993 22:1733
    IBM has and had many problems, but name recognition, and internal and
    external awareness of precisely what businesses they are in is not one
    of them.

    There's no evaluation of Digital's "badness" (ah... Digital jargon),
    a direct comparison to IBM along these lines is absurd.

    The attitude of "let's give it a try" is, in my opinion, a foolish one,
    because it gives the impression that the inputs are insignificant and
    the downside risks are inconsequential.  Advertising on the scale
    discussed is a significant expense and the money shouldn't be spent if
    the returns are not going to be there.  The downside risk of course is
    embarrassment, humiliation, and ruin.

    The new small "d" digital technologies are championed by other
    companies with a huge appetite for risk and a strong interest in the
    consumer market.  Neither of which have ever fit Digital.  The
    "positive association" that concept brings is lost if Digital isn't in
    the business of digital interactive media.

    It's an exaggeration but consider a company called "Music Supply".  You
    call them and find out they make _wire_ of all kinds including the kind
    used in pianos.  That's the position that Digital Equipment will be in
    if the trend to identify "digital" with "digital media" continues.

    As for Alpha, the technology is there on the shelf, next to Intel's,
    and, in the future, PowerPC.  It is companies other-than-Digital who
    will apply high performance microprocessor technology to take the risks
    and bear the profits and losses of the next generation of
    communications.

    The bottom line is that Digital merely wants Intel's role here, not the
    role that Sculley described for Apple or Gates for Microsoft.
2568.25PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outWed Jul 07 1993 11:0144
    RE: .19
    
    Hannah,
    
    I think it's clear, although many don't see it, that the criticisers of
    the branding campaign (including myself) are actually aware of (and
    support) most of the motives, the rationale, and the desirability of
    "branding" (as we understand that term). Where the difficulties start
    are in the specifics.
    
    For instance, you will surely have picked up by now that there are many
    criticisms of the choice of the word "digital". As one of those voicing
    such criticism, I find it amazing that there are some who cannot see
    what seems to me, the crystal clear logic in that criticism. Still,
    that's life, and thank goodness we aren't all the same.
    
    The word "branding" is far too woolly. As I've said in the past,
    branding is a clear attempt to have one's own name thought of as a
    generic word for a product. Good examples of this are Kleenex, Hoover,
    Xerox and the like. Sometimes, as in Hoover, the name becomes a generic
    term for (in this case) vacuum cleaner by virtue of the fact that it
    was the first one to be marketed widely. In the case of others, surely
    the smaller number, the creation of a brand name has been a difficult
    and expensive deliberate process. Now, just what exactly is Digital's
    "branding" campaign trying to acheive in this respect? Or, as I
    suspect, is the term "branding" as used in this campaign, a terrible
    and misleading misnomer?
    
    If I'm wrong, and Digital's branding campaign is trying to achieve
    the above, then the choice of the word "digital" is clearly ludicrous.
    However, given the fluffy, touchy-feely campaign slogan, one so awful I
    can't even remember it properly, I doubt that branding, as I understand
    it, is Digital's aim.
    
    So, your earlier reply notwithstanding, please define "branding", and
    please define what Digital expects to gain from this "branding", *in
    the context of that definition*. I would also be extremely interested
    in knowing why "digital" was chosen rather than "DEC", the latter
    being, in my opinion, a ready-made and extant brand name, requiring
    little more than polishing up in the eyes of "the market".
    
    When I understand those, I'm sure I'll have further questions.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.
2568.26JUPITR::HILDEBRANTI'm the NRAWed Jul 07 1993 12:176
    RE: .24
    
    Good analysis Pat.
    
    
    Marc H.
2568.27"branding" is distinction, not commoditizationREGENT::POWERSWed Jul 07 1993 13:0024
re: .25

>    As I've said in the past,
>    branding is a clear attempt to have one's own name thought of as a
>    generic word for a product. 

This is exactly NOT what branding is!

Branding is to DISTINGUISH your product from others of its type,
to highlight (or at least suggest) its (presumably advantageous) differences.
"Coke" and "Pepsi" are two brands of cola drinks, each fiercely identified
as unique and NOT to be confused with the other, or ANY other cola drink.

"Digital" branding should be to identy our products as unique.
This is made difficult because of the generic and ubiquitous nature 
of the adjective "digital."
I wish we had chosen to focus on the longer name "Digital Equipment"
as our branding identity.  Build confidence and exposure for the (rather
mundane) name, and use the distinctive logo to build visual association.
General Electric and General Motors have similarly mundane names,
but have managed to build recognition as GE and GM, based in part on their
logotypes.

- tom]
2568.28Give some creditSULACO::JUDICEEverything must go.Wed Jul 07 1993 13:4631
    
    I would have loved to see the image consultant's reports on Digital...
    Here's a company, who's products are very well known and respected by
    it's customers as "DEC". Yet these same loyal customers know Digital 
    as merely the nameplate on most of these "DEC" products. Then there are
    the non-customers, who think of "DEC" as some hardware company, and
    "Digital" as another company that advertises very little, but when they 
    do, it's hard to figure out exactly what business they're in.
    
    Do you trash "Digital", an ambiguous, somewhat tongue-twisting English
    word, but one with logo-recognition? Or "DEC" which almost everyone who
    knows the company already calls it?
    
    Clearly this was a tough job, and although I don't agree with the 
    results, you have to respect the mess these people had to work through.
    
    Personally, I've been calling us Digital for years (ever since the time
    around '88 when we de-emphasised DEC). But it certainly hasn't been 
    catching on among customers and employees, and the vague new
    advertising is unlikely to change things.
    
    There was some mention of IBM... See IBM's new "enterprise" oriented
    advertising? "There's never been a better time to do busines with IBM."
    Digital's "Putting imagination to work" would seem more fitting for
    Industrial Light and Magic...
    
     
    
    
    /ljj
    
2568.29A brand by any other name...CHEFS::STAALHTo boldly go where I've been beforeWed Jul 07 1993 13:4952
    Re: 125
    
    What "branding" is attempting to achieve is different from what Laurie
    has described.
    
    His examples are clear cases of where companies have been sloppy
    in enforcing their trade marks. The words that used to describe a
    single product or company have now been absorbed in "every day
    popular" English. You're best off contacting your local legal
    representative for an insight into how enforcable claims are against
    infringement of copyright/trade marks in instances such as these.
    
    For example one can now "hoover" with a Philips vacuum cleaner, "xerox"
    on a Canon photocopier etc. As far as I know other companies can now use
    these words to promote their own competitive products. Hence the
    importance that is attached to the correct use of trade marks.
    
    The "branding" idea revolves around the concept of extending traditional
    advantages of a strong brand image to a corporate identity. This is
    currently the fashionable thing to do for major multinational
    corporations. Hence (in the UK, apologies to our non-UK noters) companies 
    such as Volkswagen promote their reliability, Microsoft their ease-of-use 
    etc. The objective being that these corporate attributes should then
    transfer to all the individual products/offerings of that company.
    
    Compare this with traditional brands/products eg. Mars bars - the brand
    - that helps you work, rest and play which applies to all the products in
    that brand; be it a funsize Mars bar, extra large Mars bar or Mars ice
    cream.
    
    Digital is trying to create the image of being THE company that puts
    imagination to work. This will hopefully transfer to all our products.
    system integration services, hardware, software etc. etc.
    
    The objectives are clear. Whether the implementation is successful only
    time will tell. But it is very clear that every individual within
    Digital does have a strong opinion on whether or not
    
    a) the new image we are projecting is the right one
    b) the name we should be using is Digital
    c) the new logo will assist in developing the corporate image we are
    trying to project.
    d) they themselves fully understand the objectives of the branding
    exercise
    
    On this last point the communication that has been widely available has
    been limited to announcements heralding the start of the branding
    campaign. Unfortunately there have been very few (if any) detailing the 
    reasoning behind this particular approach and the specific results that 
    we hope to achieve.
    
    Hans            
2568.30TLE::TOKLAS::FELDMANOpportunities are our FutureWed Jul 07 1993 13:5519
re: .25

The reason "Digital" was chosen over "DEC" was explained fairly clearly in 
a sidebar on page 4 of the recent Digital World issue, which every employee 
should have received.

The research they did showed:
	Worldwide awareness was higher for Digital than for DEC
		(employee intuition and anecdotal evidence not 
		 withstanding, and with Japan being a regional exception)
	DEC was associated with "old" and "hardware company"
	Digital was associated with "breadth of offering"

I agree with Pat's implication that the company is, in many ways,
acting more like a chip vendor than an innovative systems and information 
technology company, but it's clear that the people who made the branding 
decision want us to be the latter.

   Gary
2568.31QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centWed Jul 07 1993 14:3428
Re: .29

>    For example one can now "hoover" with a Philips vacuum cleaner, "xerox"
>    on a Canon photocopier etc. As far as I know other companies can now use
>    these words to promote their own competitive products. Hence the
>    importance that is attached to the correct use of trade marks.

This is not true in the US; I can't speak to other countries.  Xerox vigorously
defends its trademark here.  As for Hoover, it's not a common usage as a
generic in the US, certainly not to the extent of Xerox for "photocopy".
One well-known US company-name trademark which HAS become generic in the US
is "Thermos".  Also, "Aspirin" started out as a trademark, but has become
generic in the US.  In Canada, though, it's still a trademark of Bayer.

The Corporate Identity Manual has a lot of informative and useful text on
how trademarks should and should not be used. 

However, given that "Digital" is not our trademark (nor anyone else's), it's
rather moot as to whether or not anyone uses the company name as generic.

I see the branding campaign as an attempt to make Digital Equipment
Corporation more widely known among potential purchasers of our products.
In some markets, we're well known, in others, unknown.  (Just last month
I spoke with a PC-knowledgable user who had heard that Digital "used to make
PCs", and was astonished to hear that we're "Number 11 with a bullet" in
the industry.)

				Steve
2568.32Digital please!RDGENG::NEWBERRYHWed Jul 07 1993 14:3634
    As stated in .30, there was strong evidence obtained to justify
    sticking with Digital rather than DEC.  The name Digital is much more
    associated with the impression we are trying to portray of the company. 
    To adopt the name DEC would be like starting over again, with full
    employee knowledge of the name and about 40% external knowledge.  I for
    one do not think that would stand us in a good position considering
    the economic climate.
    
    As an example, I was told about a magazine article from a few months
    back.  Apparently, it stated something like:
    
    Four companies were bidding for the contract: IBM, SUN, ICL and a
    company called DEC.
    
    I think that in itself is evidence of why Digital is trying to be
    reinforced as our name.  I think that a concerted effort should be made
    by all, especially employees to refer to the company as Digital.  If we
    could all manage it, then the company may be seen in a more consistant
    and together light.
    
    I don't think Digital have any desire to adopt the name DEC and have it
    end up as a way people refer to various pieces of equipment.  If that
    was to happen, I think any identity would be lost rather than
    reinforced.  People easily forget, and I would question whether it
    would make people want to by our products.
    
    What Digital want to do, is become associated with various positive
    features, such as being helpful, prepared to listen to the customer,
    willing to be creative, quality products and so on.  What we don't want
    is our name being used to describe an IBM machine.
    
    Hannah
    
    
2568.33Consistency?? Where?SUBWAY::CATANIAWed Jul 07 1993 14:527
    RE .-1
    
    I hate to say this but I have seen very little consistency at Digital
    or DEC for that matter.  Everyone does there own little thing an there
    lies the problem!
    
    - Mike
2568.34That is my pointRDGENG::NEWBERRYHWed Jul 07 1993 15:381
    Exactly!  That is why they are trying to create some consistency.
2568.35The "generic" ratholeLEVERS::PLOUFFStars reel in a rollicking crewWed Jul 07 1993 18:2112
    re: .29, .31 trademarks like "xerox" becoming generic
    
    Why does this always come up?  Most U.S. readers (and most others?) can
    readily describe "a xerox," or "a thermos" or "an aspirin."  The
    argument for the word "Digital" passing from trademark to generic
    description makes sense only if someone can clearly describe what 
    "a digital" is, what it looks like, weighs, sounds like, etc.  Anyone
    care to take up this challenge?
    
    .29's other points were well taken.
    
    Wes
2568.36I don't tell anyone where I work anymore, anyway16BITS::DELBALSOI (spade) my (dog face)Wed Jul 07 1993 20:367
If part of the point of this whole exercise is to get employees to
use/employ/be_comfortable_with/etc. "Digital" rather than "DEC", I can't
wait to see the next revision to PP&P which suggests that the useage
of the term "DEC" is grounds for commencement of a corrective action
plan and written warning.

-Jack
2568.37CHEFS::STAALHTo boldly go where I've been beforeThu Jul 08 1993 08:2847
    I agree with .31 that the examples I mentioned in .29
    could have been better chosen. Aspirin is a good example
    of a trade mark that has become a generic term for a
    category of product. Although xerox, hoover etc. are words
    that have slipped into everyday English/American they are
    still covered by trade mark legislation and not open to
    use by other companies.
    
    re: .34 My intention in citing these examples was certainly
    not a rathole. A previous noter had muddled the branding
    concept with trade mark protection (if not in words then in
    concept) and my illustrations were meant to clarify.
    
    I agree that a "Digital" is a pretty nebulus concept and not
    really the issue here (although "doing a Digital" may well
    become accepted terminology in Marketing Case Studies at the
    current rate).
    
    The focus of this string of notes (in my mind) is really
    enquiring into the (non)acceptance and understanding (or
    lack of) of Digital employees of the current branding
    strategy. The branding of corporate images is certainly
    not a new concept but currently very fashionable. The
    FMCG (fast moving consumer goods) sector is full of
    examples of very strong brands and the images/life styles
    that are associated with these brands (and hence the individual
    products that make up that brand). These strong brands are
    definitely an asset to the companies that own them. So now
    companies are trying to turn their corporate image into a
    "brand" so that the notions that the public associate with
    a company can then apply to all that company's products.
    
    The main focus of branding a corporate image is a battle for
    the public mindshare. Successful "company brands" have
    managed to get the public to associate a single word or notion
    with their company name (and hence all its products). Examples
    are Volkswagen and reliability, Volvo and safety, Microsoft
    and ease-of-use etc. (Digital and imagination/creativity ??).
    Unfortunately only one company can occupy a each notion in the
    public minds and I'm not sure that imagination/creativity
    doesn't already belong to Apple (or someone else - Next ??).
    
    Hans
    
    PS. Hannah, I would be extremely interested in reading your
    dissertation once you've completed it.
    
2568.38Wanna buy an expensive watch?RDGENG::OBRIENSThu Jul 08 1993 09:299
    Everybody says it without a thought....
    
    		Hoover is a brand name and is accepted as such. I'm
    interested in where the word -DIGITAL- actually came from. Why was this
    company named after an LED watch ? Actually was digital technology
    around in 1956 (I think that's when we were founded).
    
    Any answers??
    
2568.39SDSVAX::SWEENEYYou are what you retrieveThu Jul 08 1993 11:291
    The question posed in 2568.38 is answered in 2568.17
2568.40POWDML::MACINTYREThu Jul 08 1993 12:4716
    Last week in the Boston Globe a sidebar article contained a short note
    that said (to paraphrase):
    
   >  "Digital Equipment Corporation has made it clear that it wishes to be
   > known as "Digital" and not "DEC".  As always, compliance will depend on
   > space considerations."
    
    
    I guess the press has received the message but is not too interested in
    complying.  Perhaps "they" do not agree that "Digital" is better known
    to their readers as "DEC" is.  
    
    
    Marv
    
      
2568.41MU::PORTERanother fine messThu Jul 08 1993 13:1714
Of course digital technology was around in 1956!  "Digital" doesn't
even imply that electronics is involved, although there were certainly
electronic digitial computers before 1956.

Heavens, we've had Fortran compilers since 1956 (although they
might not have been called "compilers" back then).

"Digital Equipment Company" was a pretty reasonable term for the 
company back then, given that it was considered a Bad Idea to
use the word "computer" when talking to venture capitalists.
The early Digital Equipment Company made equipment which was
digital.   Sure, the name's sort of vague, but they went in
for vagueness in those days.  "International Business Machines".
"English Electric".
2568.42NOVA::SWONGERRdb Software Quality EngineeringThu Jul 08 1993 15:239
>    I guess the press has received the message but is not too interested in
>    complying.  Perhaps "they" do not agree that "Digital" is better known
>    to their readers as "DEC" is.  

	The press is more concerned with making things fit into the space of
	a headline. That's why you see things like "DEMS DECRY HUB COPS", or
	some such. 

	Roy
2568.43PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outThu Jul 08 1993 15:356
   <<< Note 2568.29 by CHEFS::STAALH "To boldly go where I've been before" >>>
                       -< A brand by any other name... >-

    Hans, thank you. that's much clearer.
    
    Laurie.
2568.44time will tellAMCUCS::YOUNGI'd like to be...under the sea...Thu Jul 08 1993 18:157
    After reading countless replies about the goodness or badness of
    branding and then exploring those bottomless ratholes to nauseum I'll
    add that I'm heartened to see marketing doing SOMETHING for the public
    awareness.  Good or bad they're actually doing something!  Only history
    will have the correct answer.
    
    cw
2568.45PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outFri Jul 09 1993 09:3541
2568.46in this survey, who recognized what?MARX::GRIERmjg's holistic computing agencySat Jul 10 1993 17:3323
    Re: research: (these points have been nagging me for a while)
    
       I'm curious about the details of the research.  Was the gist of the
    questioning something like "Have you heard of the company Digital?"
    
       If so, they could be answering for any of a number of "Digital
    <mumble>" companies.
    
       The evidence I see clearly indicates that our customers call us DEC,
    and that we try to call ourselves Digital, confusing everyone in the
    process.  (I've been here for quite a while, but I have to admit that
    when I bought a disk controller card for my PC from Western Digital, I
    did some checking to see if they were involved with us.)
    
       Additionally, who was questioned?  I'm really searching my memory of
    ever dealing with someone outside Digital who buys our equipment who
    referred to us as Digital instead of DEC.  I can't recall any. 
    However, I also tend to deal with a more technically oriented crowd,
    rather than corporate purchasing agents, etc., so I wonder if this data
    is based on what CEOs recognize, as opposed to the people who really
    have to use the stuff and recommend it to be purchased.
    
    					-mjg
2568.47Anecdotes VS. AnalysisESGWST::HALEYbecome a wasp and hornetSun Jul 11 1993 01:0922
I fear we are making decisions based on anecdote more than on research.  I 
have met customers who thought DEC went out of business a couple years ago, 
and a lot who have never heard of VMS.  This does not mean that Digital or 
DEC is gone, simply that we are using self-selecting samples.  My job was 
to call on people who had little or no Digital gear or software.  
Obviously, my customers have no positive association with DEC.  So what!

When I worked in Massachuesetts I thought everybody knew about DEC, 
Digital, Vaxes ( I know we aren't supposed to call them that, but we all 
did) and VMS.  A lot of people knew about PDPs.  Now I talk to people who 
ask me if the new Alpha workstations have Pentium chips in them!  It is 
very easy to laugh, but the perception is not consistant.  

I have no ability to deteremine if Digital is the right name.  I like it 
better than DEC, but that is ONLY MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE.

To paraphrase from an article in Car and Driver this month:  "Our marketing 
efforts are about as successful as those of the Flat Earth Society and the 
Charles Manson Flan Club."  Luckily, on a positive note, any recognition of 
our company on the left coast will be easily measurable.

Matt
2568.48POWDML::MACINTYREMon Jul 12 1993 13:0110
    The Help Wanted section of last Sunday had numerous job openings listed
    asking for "DEC programmers", "DEC communications specialists"... all
    of which were seeking people versed in Digital Equipment Corp's
    products such as VMS and DECnet.
    
    DEC lives on in the minds of our (local to MA) customers while it dies
    at Digital.
    
    Marv
    
2568.49Digital vs. DECRDGENG::NEWBERRYHMon Jul 12 1993 13:4221
    It is obviously not going to be an overnight transformation from DEC to
    Digital.  A decision has been made (whether right or wrong) to keep the
    name as Digital.  A branding campaign has been introduced in the hope
    to establish our identity and name.  
    
    I would think that gradually we will start to be accepted as Digital. 
    It is early days yet.  What is needed is guidelines to the use of
    Digital and DEC, this needs to be distributed within the company.  Only
    then would we be able to see whether the wrong decision had been made. 
    Also, established or current customers will obviously know the link
    between DEC and Digital. It is the new customers and the rest of the
    industry that are the targets.
    
    I can agree that there is a large inconsistency problem at this stage. 
    But I would not feel in a position to comment yet because the new
    campaign has not been going long.  What I would suggest Digital do is
    launch an advertising campaign drawing attention to Digital and DEC,
    linking them together but emphasising that Digital is what we want to
    be called.
    
    Hannah
2568.50Datsun -> NissanGRANMA::FDEADYit's hard to get releaseMon Jul 12 1993 15:077
    
    Does anyone remember Japan's Datsun? They have been successful in 
    changing their "branding", to Nissan. How did they accomplish the
    name recognition? Wasn't it through HEAVY television advertising?
    
    Just wondering.
    			fred deady
2568.51MIMS::PARISE_MContemplating mid-life cruises...Mon Jul 12 1993 15:213
    
    Or...ESSO to EXXON....and you can be sure is was megabucks.
    
2568.52MARX::GRIERmjg's holistic computing agencyMon Jul 12 1993 15:5831
    Re: .50:
    
       Yeah, but they wouldn't have been successful at changing their brand
    name to "Automotive", even if their new full name was "Automotive
    Quality Dealers".
    
    Re: anecdotes vs. research:
    
       Well, I for one question the validity of the research.  I haven't
    seen their methodology used in generating this data, and as we all
    know, you can make statistics say pretty much anything you want them to
    say.
    
       Using the example from my first paragraph, I imagine that if Datsun
    had tried to change their name to "Automotive Quality Dealers", they
    would have been able to demonstrate research showing a very high level
    of recognitiion to the term "Automotive" -- but did it mean their
    corporation?
    
    					-mjg
    
    p.s.
    
       Like other noters here, I do follow the guidelines and refer to the
    company as either "Digital" or "Digital Equipment" to people outside
    DEC ;-), but their usual response is something like "Well, I hear that
    DEC has...".  I truly believe that the research has hit upon the truth:
    our corporation, which most people refer to as DEC, is seen as rather
    staid in the industry.  Changing the name to protect the guilty is
    precisely like our internal corporate style, my only complaint is that
    Digital is a poor choice for a new brand image.
2568.53Datsun 280z and Nissan 280z are different cars!NEWVAX::MZARUDZKII AXPed it, and it is thinking...Mon Jul 12 1993 19:199
    
     re .50  Datsun -> Nissan
    
    I just sold my Datzun 280z, 1978 model. It was never called a Nissan
    280z, that my friend is a totally different car, and company. My point
    is sometimes legacy prevents you from calling something new, different,
    or something old, something new.
    
    -Mike Z.
2568.54POWDML::MACINTYREMon Jul 12 1993 19:289
    The Datsun "Z" car is the ancestor of the Nissan "Z" cars.
    
    It started as a 240Z then 260Z and on to 280Z.
    
    It is the same car in the same way that the Lincoln Mark IV has evolved
    into the Mark VIII nowadays.
    
    Marv
    
2568.55Same company, different model years.STAR::BECKPaul BeckMon Jul 12 1993 21:0215
 >     I just sold my Datzun 280z, 1978 model. It was never called a Nissan
 >     280z, that my friend is a totally different car, and company.
                                                        ***********?
							
    Where do you get this "information"? The company's always been Nissan.
    Datsun was the name of the cars they sold (at least overseas) until a
    few years ago, and the name change coincided with a yearly model change,
    but it's been the same company, continuously, throughout. (I've owned a
    Datsun 510, Datsun 610, Datsun 280ZX, Nissan 300ZX turbo, and the
    redesigned Nissan 300ZX. Plus an Audi and Peugeot sprinkled in the
    middle; these were the only cars not made by Nissan...)

    (The turbo *may* have been labeled "Datsun" - I don't actually recall
     which name they were using that year. Which says something for the
     continuity...)
2568.56NEWPRT::NEWELL_JODon't wind your toys too tightMon Jul 12 1993 22:3214
    Actually the way these high visiblity companies like Datsun/Nissan
    make a name change and new name recognition is quite simple. They
    produce a car the first year of the name change with both names on
    the car. Both names (Datsun and Nissan) are of equal value (ie. size).
    As the years go on, the older name becomes small in comparison to
    the new name until the new name only is represents that car model.
    
    Several years ago Forest E. Olson a large real estate company was
    bought out by Coldwell Banker. The next year the signs read both names.
    Each year the Coldwell became larger while the F.E.O. decreased in
    size. It took several years (maybe 3-5) for a complete name change
    and recognition.
    
    Jodi-  
2568.57ZPOVC::HWCHOYMostly on FIRE!Tue Jul 13 1993 00:063
    re.55
    Yes the Nissan name has been around for a long time. Roughly it means
    "Made/Produced in Japan".
2568.58hey, that's our abbreviation..MU::PORTERthe past sure is tenseTue Jul 13 1993 00:465
    I read an article in the Christian Science Monitor which mentioned
    "DEC".
    
    They were talking about the "Dialogue for Economic Co-operation",
    which is what they're calling the current US-Korea talks.
2568.59:-)SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 13 1993 08:1410
    
>    Or...ESSO to EXXON....and you can be sure is was megabucks.
 

	It's still ESSO here.........maybe we'll remain DEC here?


	Heather


2568.60PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outTue Jul 13 1993 10:383
    It's ESSO all across Europe, Heather.
    
    Laurie in Belgium.
2568.61VAXCAT::RKEPawky PussycatTue Jul 13 1993 11:329
	Geoff Singles, The UK's old CEO, told the whole world back in
	1986 or 87 that DEC UK would from then on be called Digital Equipment 
	Company Ltd. We still have folks internal calling us DEC.

	If we can't change our name, how on earth do we expect the rest of
	the world to?
 
Richard.
2568.62name changes are difficult to implement..TEKVAX::KOPECFree Stupidity Screening $5Tue Jul 13 1993 12:0312
    Note that the Datsun/Nissan changeover didn't go exactly smoothly. My
    '83 pickup truck is labeled, in various places, either 'Datsun',
    'Nissan', or 'Datsun by Nissan'. This all on one vehicle.
    
    This actually worked to my advantage; when I went to register the truck
    (bought used at a good price) and pay the sales tax, the computer
    didn't list a 1983 Datsun 720 truck; it only listed the 1983 as a
    Nissan 720.. so they RMV clerk said "Well, we don't have a book value
    for that truck, so I guess we'll have to accept the sale price for tax
    purposes".. That saved me about a hundred bucks..
    
    ...tom
2568.63why we should stick to one name for good business senseSTAR::ABBASITue Jul 13 1993 12:5814
    i think that we should just pick one name and just stick to it!, name
    recognitions is very important in the eye of the customer, keep
    changing our names is not a good idea, just pick a good sounding
    name and dont change it for crying out loud, if we ourselves are 
    confused what our name now is, how out our customers and
    the people outside?

    i have never been more confused befor in my whole wide life about a
    name than this one.
    
    i say, enough is enough, one name, one company must be our new motto from
    now on.                                                     
    
    \nasser
2568.64SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Jul 13 1993 13:0515
	When I joined in 84, I was told that we should say Digital Equipment ltd
	when picking up the 'phone, and never use DEC.

	Every year since I have been told we are no longer DEC, and are 
	now Digital.

	I wouldn't never have thought of calling us DEC......until I heard
	all these messages, year after year, saying we weren't.

	I wonder if all this publicity is working against it's desired effect?

	And I wonder if we were ever officially DEC

	Heather
2568.65TLE::TOKLAS::FELDMANOpportunities are our FutureTue Jul 13 1993 14:5911
There's a secondary factor influencing car names. Ironically, Nissan is 
once again this year's example.  The Nissan Altima has a small sticker or
nameplate somewhere, technically naming it the Stanza Altima.  The reason 
is that Federal regulations make it very expensive to introduce a new
line, but cheaper to give new subdesignations for existing lines 
(regardless of how much engineering they have in common).  So, for this 
year, the Altima is a type of Stanza.  These rules probably influenced the 
"Datsun by Nissan" transition (and I think the Corolla Tercel -> Tercel 
evolution).

   Gary
2568.66What about old product names?BULEAN::ABERDALETue Jul 13 1993 17:0922
    Is it any wonder that so many are confused about our Company name?  It
    seems that our product names themselves encourage the confusion. 
    Many of our products are named DECfoo (DECserver, DECmcc, DECwindows to 
    name a few) while others are not.  Are there plans in the works to
    rename DECproducts to alleviate confusion?  I know that sounds like
    a costly proposal.  However, I wonder if whoever chose Digital over DEC
    ever considered the mixed message we still give our customers if we
    continue to sell DECproducts.
    
    Certainly other companies such as McDonald's have been successful at
    distinguishing many of their products with company name prefixes. 
    Sure, it's a great idea _if_ it doesn't lead to confusion.  Imagine
    what you'd think if you purchased MECfries made by McDonald's Eatery 
    Corporation (I know that's not McDonald's real name, but please bear
    with me for demonstration purposes).  Wouldn't you wonder if MEC and
    McDonald's were the same company?
    
    Personally, I would prefer the name DEC, but I'll use Digital since
    I'm not qualified to make those DECisions ;-)
    
                                         - LL
    
2568.67AIMHI::BOWLESTue Jul 13 1993 17:3714
    I don't think this point has been made before (at least in this
    iteration of the discussion of names)........
    
    I know there are exceptions, but don't most companies with initials for 
    names pronounce all the letters?  For example, IBM, HP, GM, NEC, etc.  
    You don't say Ibum, or Hup, or Gum or Neck, do you?
    
    However, for some reason, we are referred to as DEC (as in Deck), not
    D. E. C.
    
    Of course, we *could* have changed our official name to DEC (as in 
    D. E. C.), but that would have been too easy.
    
    Chet
2568.68Well...WHO301::BOWERSDave Bowers @WHOTue Jul 13 1993 18:395
    Actually, quite a few folks of my acquaintance pronounce NEC as "neck".
    The "ibum" pronunciation for IBM has also been heard here in IBM's back
    yard (WHO is only a few miles from IBM headquarters in Armonk).
    
    \dave
2568.69WREATH::DEVLINIt's just time to say hor d'oevre...Tue Jul 13 1993 19:205
When I was at IBM, I never heard anyone say IBUM....

Now, I did hear "Itsy Bitsy Machines.."

JD
2568.71It is a pleasure to waste time on this frivolous sbject.BONNET::WLODEKNetwork pathologist.Wed Jul 14 1993 07:1310
    Well, reading the Digital World ( former DEC World ) you can find a
    quote saying "improve name recognition for Digital and DEC ".
    So, the company focuses on Digital while DEC is still and will be also
    company name for years.

    If a name like DEC can't be eradicated by an ukaz in 5 minutes maybe
    this name has some value the new one does not .

    				
2568.72PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outWed Jul 14 1993 08:0911
    I was giving this some thought yesterday. There are some clever,
    observant and articulate people still left in this company. How is it 
    that by the time they get to offer an opinion, the irreversible
    decision has already been made? Anyway, that's by-the-by, the point is:
    
    I wonder how many of the "pro-Digital" camp would be able to resist
    scathing comments and ridicule if IBM suddenly decided to call
    themselves "International", because it's exactly the same thing as us
    calling ourselves "Digital". and wrong for all the same reasons.
    
    Laurie.
2568.73Displacing digital in the mindSDSVAX::SWEENEYYou are what you retrieveWed Jul 14 1993 12:0025
    "International" was in fact the nickname for "International Harvester"
    once upon a time a company substantially larger than IBM. 
    "International" became "Navistar".

    "Digital" is a poor name because it needs not only to establish the
    name identity of the company but also to _displace_ what people already
    believe "Digital" to mean in their lives.

    Previous examples of Exxon, Nissan, and even Navistar above did not
    need to displace a word with a meaning that was understood.

    "Digital" to the people who don't consider themselves to be high-tech
    is assocated with clocks, watches, etc. because that's where they have
    seen this unfamiliar word used in advertising: a display in digits
    rather than position.

    "Digital" in its new high-tech usage refers to digital recording of
    audio, video, and text.  This is an area where the company has a
    minuscule impact on consumers relative to the efforts of Apple,
    Microsoft, and others to start a digital media revolution.

    "Digital Equipment" was a clever play to the mindset of investment
    bankers of 36 years ago.  Today, it's a name that not only says nothing
    to consumers.  It's a name that contradicts what people, low-tech and
    high-tech believe "digital" to mean.
2568.74PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outWed Jul 14 1993 12:488
    RE: .73
    
    Wot 'e said.
    
    I'm still waiting for answers to the questions I asked that touched
    upon all that...
    
    Laurie.
2568.75SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingThu Jul 15 1993 10:1820
	Well, someone's noticed we've changed our name!!!!!


    VAX AT YOUR FINGERTIPS IN THE DIGITAL BRITISH LIBRARY

    Digital, or DEC as the rest of the world insists on saying, are
    sponsoring the new British Library, Bull's Eye Column makes the humble
    suggestion that a program could be inserted to alter the DEC to Digital
    wherever it occurs.  Giving Digitalade rather than Decade, and
    replacing obsolete words like "product" and "box" with the more snappy
    "solution" (eg. Daddy went to the toy shop and bought a
    Jack-In-The-Solution which an on site support team will seamlessly
    integrate into my open play environment). The dry and dusty reference
    library could make way for the sparkling new slogan "Digital: Vax at
    your Vingertips".

    Banking Technology, London. July/August 1993.


	Heather
2568.76WREATH::DEVLINIt's just time to say hor d'oevre...Thu Jul 15 1993 13:3917
Again - everysingle piece of official Digital correspondence or literature I
have ever seen or received has DIGITAL - and not DEC.

I really don't see what is so hard about it.  Digital is the name.  Digital
has, as far as I have known - never been known officially as DEC.   I don't
recall any adverstitsing as "DEC".   IBM has always (well, since they
changed from the Computation Tabulatin Company or whatever..) been IBM -
I worked there, and there was never any confusion.

The equipment in my office says "Digital" = not DEC.

My Business Cards say "Digital" not DEC.

DEC is an acronym, and acronyms are convenient ways to lessen speach - they are
also overused.  My pay stub says DIGITAL, not DEC.

JD
2568.77Even if we get it right, what about customers and the press?VMSMKT::KENAHEscapes,Lies,Truth,Passion,MiraclesThu Jul 15 1993 13:549
>I really don't see what is so hard about it.  Digital is the name.  Digital
>has, as far as I have known - never been known officially as DEC. 
    
    You continue to confuse official policy with reality.
    
    Many of our customers and the press call us DEC.  A major industry
    journal is called DEC Professional. We use DEC in hundreds of our
    product names.  This is reality.
    
2568.78CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistThu Jul 15 1993 14:0610
    >    You continue to confuse official policy with reality.
>    
>    Many of our customers and the press call us DEC.  A major industry
>    journal is called DEC Professional. We use DEC in hundreds of our
>    product names.  This is reality.

    Some people have their minds made up already. You do no favor by trying
    to confuse the issue with facts. :-)

    			Alfred
2568.79WREATH::DEVLINIt's just time to say hor d'oevre...Thu Jul 15 1993 14:189
I've used Digital with all customers I've dealt with - including all my stints
on location at customer sites (for up to 1.5 years...)  There was NO confusion
about Digital being Digital Equipment Corporation, or DEC being an acronym
for the company name.

Perhaps I've been blessed with working with customers that have some ability
to think.

JD
2568.80SPECXN::WITHERSBob WithersThu Jul 15 1993 16:3516
But, you may be using DECNotes on a terminal connected to a DECServer or using
DECWindows on your workstation.   Your labour reporting system may be using
DECForms, or you may use DECcalc or DECwrite.  (I hope I got all the
casification correct :-)

cheers,
BobW
>================================================================================
>Note 2568.76                Digital's new brand image                   76 of 79
>WREATH::DEVLIN "It's just time to say hor d'oevre..." 17 lines  15-JUL-1993 09:39
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Again - everysingle piece of official Digital correspondence or literature I
>have ever seen or received has DIGITAL - and not DEC.
>
>JD
2568.81SPECXN::WITHERSBob WithersThu Jul 15 1993 16:4912
I couldn't decide whether to put this here, or in the "Digital isn't what we
do" note, or one of the related theme notes, but I was pondering name
recognition as I shopped for a disk drive.  The names I though of were:

Conner (someone's name)
Storage Tech (meaningful and descriptive)
Quantum (a unit of measurement or capacity)
MAXTOR (a play on MAXimum STORage)

and the one that struck me was that "Digital" evoke *no* mental image.

BobW
2568.82TOPDOC::AHERNDennis the MenaceThu Jul 15 1993 17:166
    RE: .80  by SPECXN::WITHERS 
    
>But, you may be using DECNotes on a terminal connected to a DECServer or using
    
    What's DECNotes?  Is that anything like VAXnotes?
    
2568.83Digital the oposite of AnalogMIMS::STILL_GThu Jul 15 1993 17:1911
    .81
    
    Digital does provide a mental Image as it did when the company started. 
    Digital as opposed to Analog electronic circuits; the basic electronic
    circuit of todays computer!
    
    Also the only way Digital will become a house hold name is to Advertise
    to the common house hold via what common house hold watchs on TV.
    Sports and sitcoms! But is that what we want
    
    
2568.84Look at IntelMIMS::STILL_GThu Jul 15 1993 17:285
    
    
    As a after thought! Look at Intel! The average person did not
    understand the 286 processor and who made it until the "Intel inside"
    TV ad and they did not even Have a ad on PBS! Where did we go wrong.
2568.85running old software are you? :-)CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistThu Jul 15 1993 17:297
    >    What's DECNotes?  Is that anything like VAXnotes?
    
    Yes, version V2.4 and later calls itself DEC Notes. All products that
    run on platforms other than VAX, such as AXP etc, are going to this I
    hear.
    
    		Alfred
2568.86TOPDOC::AHERNDennis the MenaceThu Jul 15 1993 19:109
    RE: .85  by CVG::THOMPSON 
    
    >>    What's DECNotes?  Is that anything like VAXnotes?
    
    >Yes, version V2.4 and later calls itself DEC Notes. All products that
    >run on platforms other than VAX, such as AXP etc, are going to this I hear.
    
    Gee, maybe we shoulda called it just "Notes".  Too late, huh?
    
2568.87DGTLSMURF::SHIDERLYThu Jul 15 1993 21:235
    Isn't a major historical reason why we are known as DEC that DEC is our
    stock symbol?
    
    Why don't we change the stock symbol to something like DGTL or DTL or
    DGL?
2568.88"Digital" .. D in LitPLOUGH::OLSENThu Jul 15 1993 21:3223
    FWIW, I had an enlightening experience this last week on vacation.
    
    Being on vacation, I pointedly ignored tracking the news, especially
    business news.  Returning to the airport, after a week out-of-touch,
    we passed a building (US WEST) carrying the message "Now we're
    digital".
    
    The thought just popped into my head...who's gonna pay my salary next
    week, if they're digital?
    
    I understand WHAT we're trying to communicate, particularly by linking
    "Digital" to the COMPANY of putting innovative people to solving
    customer problems.  But I don't like the way we're DOING the
    communication.  If you were a teacher of language, and one student
    adopted a stylistic device "Digital", awkwardly, what grade would
    you be likly to give?  
    
    Frankly, I don't have to be a week away from news.  Any morning, on
    the way in to work, any news containing the word "digital" gets my
    attention.
    
    Rich
    
2568.89NETRIX::thomasThe Code WarriorThu Jul 15 1993 21:474
I have to wonder why our name is a adjective instead of a noun.
Even in our name we use Digital as an adjective (Digital Equipment).
But we use a noun (DEC or 'deck') as an adjective (DECnet, DECnotes,
DECsystem).   The illiteracy of it all.
2568.90SDSVAX::SWEENEYYou are what you retrieveThu Jul 15 1993 22:1111
    (1) The company was known as "DEC" before Digital was a stock.

    (2) The historical reason why the company was called "Digital
    Equipment" ought to be known by every employee.  Investment bankers
    were reluctant to fund "computer" companies in 1957 out of fear of the
    giants Univac and IBM.  "DEC" is the obvious abbreviation and was used
    by the company for its products very early.

    (3) "DGL" is too close to "DGN" for Data General.  NYSE stocks have 3
    letter symbols.  "DTL" could be used, but it's unlikely that would be
    changed.
2568.91I always introduce myself as from "Digital Equipment"ZPOVC::HWCHOYMostly on FIRE!Fri Jul 16 1993 00:1115
2568.92small nits on "digital" being not a nounSTAR::ABBASIFri Jul 16 1993 07:446
    .89
    
    i dont think "digital" is an adjectives, it is a noun. as in
    i work for "digital", it must be a noun!
    
    \nasser
2568.93PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outFri Jul 16 1993 12:479
    Nasser,
    
    In DECspeak, "digital" is a noun. Out there in the real world, it's an
    adjective. Now all we have to do is firstly to convince everyone that
    "digital" is a noun, and secondly, to undo the fact that there are so
    many instances where the word "digital" is used as an adjective. That
    should be pretty cheap, and very good value for money.
    
    Helpfully, Laurie.
2568.94WREATH::DEVLINIt's just time to say hor d'oevre...Fri Jul 16 1993 14:0614
re ,91

So, who cares if logic modules from the 60's had DEC on them?  Ancient, insignificant
doesn't matter.

As for the trademark issue - look at what you wrote "...DEC....is a trademark
of Digital Equipment Corporation..."

It doesn't say "DEC is a trademark of DEC"   Isn't DEC too much like NEC - it
might get confused....using the logic of many in here...isn't DEC too much
like DECK - folks might think we build decks for houses....perhaps its 
too close to DUCK - folks might think we are daffy...

JD
2568.95MARX::GRIERmjg's holistic computing agencyFri Jul 16 1993 14:3110
    Re: .94:
    
       The point about the Flip Chips etc. having "d e c" on them was that
    someone in a previous reply claimed that there was never any official
    Digital communications referring to the corporation by its TLA.  The
    point was to demonstrate that to be true, and as I recall, the three
    letters were in lower case, which means that it wasn't an acronym. 
    Probably a mistake at the time, but it doesn't alter the reality.
    
    					-mjg
2568.96another net about the sound of our companySTAR::ABBASIFri Jul 16 1993 14:357
    .94
    
    
    JD, i dont think "DEC" sounds close to "DUCK", with DUCK you pull you lips
    up, with DEC they go downwords, at least with me they do.
    
    \nasser
2568.97PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outFri Jul 16 1993 14:535
    Perhaps we should be "Digital Equipment" or "Dee Eee" for short. No
    silly trademark problems there, and "Digital Equipment" is a proper
    name. Even IBM (sorry: International) drop the "Corporation" from theirs.
    
    Laurie.
2568.98if this energy could be channeled to real problemsLGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (381-0899 ZKO2-2/T63)Fri Jul 16 1993 15:2015
re Note 2568.97 by PLAYER::BROWNL:

>     Perhaps we should be "Digital Equipment" or "Dee Eee" for short. No
>     silly trademark problems there, and "Digital Equipment" is a proper
>     name. Even IBM (sorry: International) drop the "Corporation" from theirs.
  
        I almost always say "Digital Equipment" because "Digital"
        alone is often misunderstood, ""Digital Equipment
        Corporation" is too long, and "DEC" goes against policy.

        Of course, as reported by many others, usually when I say
        "Digital Equipment" the person to whom I am speaking says
        something to the effect "Oh, you work for DEC..."

        Bob
2568.99And away-y-y-y we go-o-o-o-o!AMCUCS::YOUNGI'd like to be...under the sea...Fri Jul 16 1993 21:24255
    Posted following extraction from e-mail
    
From:	DECPA::"""v.p.,u.s.area""@a1.sales.mro.MTS.dec.com" "Russ Gullotti @MRO" 16-JUL-1993 13:48:49.40
To:	distribution:; (see end of body)
CC:	
Subj:	Registering of word, "Digital" -- attention required                   1

[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]


Letter from Russ Gullotti:

Our "digital" logo has always been registered as our trademark. We also
want to register the word, "Digital." However, the trademark examiner is
contending that the word "Digital" is a descriptive term.  So, to obtain
registration, we must convince the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board in
Washington that the term "Digital" has acquired "distinctiveness" or
"secondary meaning" denoting Digital Equipment Corporation. 

Our lawyers have requested that we provide them with 250 declarations from
our customers -- preferably the heads of Purchasing Departments -- confirming
that when they hear the word "Digital," it means hardware and software that
has been manufactured or licensed by Digital Equipment Corporation. When
our customers are resellers, we need them to affirm that when their clients
say "Digital," they mean one of our products. 

The only way we can gather these declarations is through personal contact
with customers by our Sales Reps and Account Managers. 

Unfortunately, we must have the 250 declarations in hand by July 30, 1993
if we are to make a timely filing with the Trademark Trial and Appeal
Board. I am requesting that you obtain signed declarations from your customers
and that you send them by Federal Express to:

	Digital Law Department 
	ATTN: Todd Hammond
	111 Powdermill Road
	Maynard, MA 01754 

to be received by July 30.

Attached is a one page guideline for the information that must be included
in the declaration. Two sample declarations are also attached to show you
how an end user or reseller could prepare them, although it will be more
effective if they are not all worded exactly the same.  Should you need
further advice, please contact one of the members of the Digital Law
Department listed below. 

Getting registered trademark protection for the word "Digital" may seem
like a small detail, but it is a very important aspect of our branding
initiative. I urge all of you to cooperate fully with this effort by
carrying out the actions outlined. 


Law department contacts:

Regional Law Offices:

Alpharetta, GA  John Henderson	(404) 772-2517  @ALF
 
Dallas, TX	Jeff Smith	(214) 702-4210  @SCA

Elk Grove, IL	Norma Sutton	(708) 806-2530  @ACI

Irvine, CA	Jan Sukrau	(714) 261-4147  @IVO

Greenbelt, MD	Kevin Harley	(301) 918-5160  @COP

Landover, MD	Jeff Schneider	(301) 306-2437  @DCO

New York, NY	Stephana Colbert (212) 856-2894  @NYO

Maynard Law Department is @MSO:

Angie Busby	(508) 493-2778 
Todd Hammond	(508) 493-5072
Jan LaRue	(508) 493-8943
Sylvia Reul	(508) 493-5468
Dick Smith	(508) 493-8266


Guidelines for Information to be included in customer declaration for 
registering the word "Digital" as a trademark

    Please make sure that the DECLARATION is written on the company's 
    letterhead and includes the following three parts:  
    
    Part 1 describes the person who signs the declaration:
    
    - full name followed by "declare as follows:";
    - current position and title;
    - company name; 
    - time in present position; 
    - prior positions and/or employers (if relevant;
    - explanation how he/she is familiar with the use of the term 
      "Digital" as it relates to computer products (e.g. he/she is 
      responsible for an annual budget of X $ for information technology; 
      he/she has been selling computer products for X years, etc.).
    
    Part 2 makes a distinction between end users and resellers. Each must 
    contain variations of the following two themes:
    
    - When he/she hears of "Digital" computer products, such as "Digital" 
    computers, hardware, software or peripherals, he/she assumes that 
    Digital Equipment Corporation has manufactured or endorsed the 
    product. 
    
    - To him/her, "Digital" signifies a brand of computer hardware, 
    software and peripherals manufactured by or affiliated with Digital 
    Equipment Corporation, rather than a type of computer hardware, 
    software or peripheral available from any number of companies.
    
    The reseller should in addition include language to the effect that:
    
    - It is his/her experience that when customers request a "Digital" 
    computer, "Digital" hardware, "Digital" software or "Digital" 
    computer peripherals, they are asking for a product manufactured or 
    licensed by Digital Equipment Corporation, and not for a type of 
    computer hardware, software or peripheral available from any source. 
    
    Part 3 - The last sentence should read:
    
    "I declare under penalty of perjury that all of the foregoing is true 
    and correct pursuant to 28 U.S.C. Section 1746.
    
    Dated: _____________________   Signature: __________________________"
    
    For your information:  Pursuant to the 28 U.S.C. Section 1746 "under 
    penalty of perjury" language, a person who knowingly makes a false 
    material declaration can theoretically be prosecuted for criminal 
    perjury and if convicted can be fined up to $ 10,000, imprisoned for 
    up to five years, or both (18 U.S.C Sections 1621 - 1623).
    
    Attached please find a sample with different wording examples.  


    Sample End User Declaration
    
                                 DECLARATION
    
    
    I, John X. Smith, declare as follows:
    
    I have been managing the Purchasing Department of XYZ Corporation 
    since June, 1986; in my capacity as Purchasing Manager I am 
    responsible for an annual budget of approx. $ 4 million for information 
    technology.  Prior to joining XYZ I spent 10 years in the purchasing 
    department of RST Company where my responsibility included hardware 
    and software acquisition.  I have been purchasing computer products 
    for the past 17 years.
    
    Language alternatives:

    1. When I hear of, ...
    2. To me, the terms...; In my view, the terms...; In my opinion, the 
    terms ... 
    3. I understand .. 
    
    ... "Digital" computers, "Digital" hardware, "Digital" software or 
    "Digital" computer peripherals, ... 
    
    1. ... I assume ...
    2. ... mean, indicate, stand for the fact, show ...
    3. ... to mean ...
    
    ... that Digital Equipment Corporation has manufactured or endorsed 
    the product. 
    
    To me, ...; In my view, ... In my opinion; "Digital" signifies a 
    brand of computer hardware, software and peripherals manufactured by 
    or affiliated with Digital Equipment Corporation, rather than a type 
    of computer hardware, software or peripherals available from any 
    number of companies.
    
    I declare under penalty of perjury that all of the foregoing is true 
    and correct pursuant to 28 U.S.C. Section 1746.
    
    Dated: _____________________   Signature: __________________________"
    
    
    
    
    


    Sample Reseller Declaration
    
                                 DECLARATION
    
    
    I, John X. Smith, declare as follows:
    
    I have been managing the Sales Department of XYZ Company since June, 
    1986; in my capacity as Sales Manager I am responsible for annual  
    revenues of approx. $ 42 million.  Prior to joining XYZ I spent 10 years 
    selling RST Company computers.  I have been selling computer products 
    for the past 17 years.

    Language Alternatives:
    
    1. When I hear of, ...
    2. To me, the terms...; In my view, the terms...; In my opinion, the 
    terms ... 
    3. I understand .. 
    
    ... "Digital" computers, "Digital" hardware, "Digital" software or 
    "Digital" computer peripherals, ... 
    
    1. ... I assume ...
    2. ... mean, indicate, stand for the fact, show ...
    3. ... to mean ...
    
    ... that Digital Equipment Corporation has manufactured or endorsed 
    the product. 
    
    To me, ...; In my view, ... In my opinion; "Digital" signifies a 
    brand of computer hardware, software and peripherals manufactured by 
    or affiliated with Digital Equipment Corporation, rather than a type 
    of computer hardware, software or peripherals available from any 
    number of companies.
    
    It is my experience...; I have experienced ...; My experience 
    shows...;
    
    ... that when customers request a "Digital" computer, a "Digital" 
    computer program or a "Digital" computer peripheral, they are asking 
    for a product manufactured or licensed by Digital Equipment 
    Corporation, and not a type of computer, computer peripheral or 
    software available from any source.
    
    I declare under penalty of perjury that all of the foregoing is true 
    and correct pursuant to 28 U.S.C. Section 1746.
    
    Dated: _____________________   Signature: __________________________"






%%% overflow headers %%%
    <removed>
%%% end overflow headers %%%

% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Received: by mts-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA24528; Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:42:27 -0700
% Received: from umc by mts-gw.pa.dec.com via MR/WRLMTS with conversational-MRIF; Fri, 16 Jul 93 13:42:27 -070
% Posted: Fri, 16 Jul 93 20:35:01 -0700
% Date: Fri, 16 Jul 93 20:14:01 -0700
% Sender: "v.p.,u.s.area"@a1.sales.mromts.MTS.dec.com
% From: "Russ Gullotti @MRO" <"v.p.,u.s.area"@a1.sales.mro.MTS.dec.com>
% Message-Id: <40830261703991/673929@SALES>
% To: distribution:; (see end of body)
% Subject: Registering of word, "Digital" -- attention required                   1
% Msg-Class: !AS
2568.100Isn't it marvelous.A1VAX::GUNNI couldn't possibly commentFri Jul 16 1993 22:199
    re: .99
    
    If some other manufacturer presented a similar request to Digital folk
    our lawyers would tell us the nobody should sign a letter like that.
    The rationale would be that signature commits Digital to something
    obscure obligation, requires nineteen levels of approval, a six month
    task force and a three inch thick procedures manual and, in the end,
    only a corporate officer can sign it. Digital might even appoint
    another VP specially to sign it :-) !
2568.101Good Grief!MIMS::PARISE_MContemplating mid-life cruises...Sat Jul 17 1993 02:577
    
    Re: .99
    
    If this memo is not a hoax, I'm not saying anything.
    The tone of immediacy and desperation is a little discomforting.
    
    
2568.102Oh dearSMAUG::GARRODFrom VMS -&gt; NT, Unix a future page from historySat Jul 17 1993 13:4125
    At first I thought this was a hoax. But I don't think so given all the
    real people listed in it.
    
    Unfortunately I think this will make us the laughing stock of our
    customers and resellers. The idiots responsible for picking the word
    "Digital" for our branding campaign rather than the acronymn "DEC" and
    a logo that kept the old "digital" blocks and somehow added the letters
    "DEC" to them will now find out that very very few people think of the
    company "Digital Equipment Corporation" when the adjective "Digital"
    is spoken or written in its non trademarked farm. Sure the logo has
    some recognition but not the word.
    
    I think the trasdemark examiner is dead right. I can't believe the
    arrogance of a company that wants to trademark an extremely generic
    adjective.
    
    So are any of you who are in contact with customers going to risk your
    own credibility by making the request in .99 to them?
    
    Please tell me this is a hoax. Better still please tell me it's a hoax
    that Digital Equipment Corporation is running our brand identity around
    the word Digital. Running it around the current logo (be it with round
    or square dots) is only slightly more credible.
    
    Dave
2568.103Time to keep an eye on Matco's columnSMAUG::GARRODFrom VMS -&gt; NT, Unix a future page from historySat Jul 17 1993 13:454
    Any guesses what Charlie Matco's next column is going to be about? No
    I'm not sending it to him but I bet someone does.
    
    Dave
2568.104No wonder there are so many lawyer jokesFUNYET::ANDERSONOpenVMS Forever!Sat Jul 17 1993 15:353
I can't wait to show this to one of my customers.

Paul
2568.105Just got back from the movies, and at the entrance:RDVAX::KALIKOWPartially sage, &amp; rarely on timeSat Jul 17 1993 18:2913
    
    there was a sign...
    
    +---------------+
    | Jurassic Park |
    |    digital    |
    +---------------+
    
                       P.S.--  the sound system WAS awesome.
    :-)
    
    P.P.S.--  :-(
    
2568.106What did DEC have to do with making of Jurassic ParkSMAUG::GARRODFrom VMS -&gt; NT, Unix a future page from historySat Jul 17 1993 19:437
    Did DEC have something to do with the movie? I too saw the word
    "digital" that DEC are so desperately trying to make their own on the
    signs for Jurassic park. Let's hope that Digital Equipment Corporation
    doesn't get association in the public mind with dinosaurs. Although
    reading the USENET that appears to be happening to some extent.
    
    Dave
2568.107MIMS::PARISE_MContemplating mid-life cruises...Sat Jul 17 1993 20:105
.....and "Introducing DIGITAL MUSIC EXPRESS!"...

Damn, is that annoying.

2568.108Re .106/.105, sorry for the lack of :-) Dave...RDVAX::KALIKOWPartially sage, &amp; rarely on timeSun Jul 18 1993 00:1814
    ... but .105 was meant to be wry.  I didn't expect any affiliation of
    Digital Equipment Corporation with the technologies used in Jurassic
    Park (though for sure an Alpha AXP(tm) system would not have been out
    of place for some of the computer graphics (if the necessary app were
    ported in time)).  Nor did I see any mention of Digital Equipment
    Corporation in the extensive credits.  Rather, I believe, the prominent
    mention of "digital" on the internal marquee referred to some nifty
    sort of digital sound system, whose brand name I have conveniently
    forgotten.
    
    :-}
    
    Dan
    
2568.109DTS == Digital Theater SoundALAMOS::ADAMSVisualize Whirled Peas!Sun Jul 18 1993 05:514
DEC, oops, I mean Digital Theater Sound.  Sure made the movie more
enjoyable.

--- Gavin
2568.110PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outMon Jul 19 1993 11:1612
    RE: .99
    
    You'd think, wouldn't you, that they'd have sorted a teensy little
    detail like that out, BEFORE spending time, effort and money on a
    "branding" campaign.
    
    I agree, the trademark people are quite correct, and only pointing out
    what we've been saying for ages.
    
    I'm still awaiting answers to my questions...
    
    Laurie.
2568.111250 customers who think we're digital? uh-hunDNEAST::BEICHMAN_JOHMon Jul 19 1993 12:5015
    Correct me if I'm wrong (always an unnecessary line in this notes
    file), but wasn't there quite alot of discussion about one reason we
    (DEC/Digital) embarked on this branding campaign is that many of our
    customers were confused about DEC/Digital? To the point they thought
    DEC & Digital are two different companies?  And now we need 250 of
    these confused customers to sign a legal document stating they always
    think of our computers/networks/(and IBM-clone PCs) when they see
    digital? 
    
    Un-effing-believable.
    
    I'm gonna put my face back on the grindstone now -- the pain distracts
    me -- and wait to see if TSFO jr (in Q2) drops to 2 weeks + 1wk/yr. 
    
    johnb
2568.113Affords very little protection even if we get it...SPECXN::KANNANMon Jul 19 1993 14:1110
  ...The Trademark laws in the U.S are designed in such a way that the more
  obscure the word is, the more protection the law provides you. The trademark
  examiner might even  award the trademark to us, but anyone can use the
  word with impunity since it's closer to English than most words in the
  technical realm. 

  Nari

  
2568.114computer creditsLGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (381-0899 ZKO2-2/T63)Mon Jul 19 1993 14:4614
re Note 2568.108 by RDVAX::KALIKOW:

>     Nor did I see any mention of Digital Equipment
>     Corporation in the extensive credits.  

        A number of computer companies were mentioned in the credits. 
        The most prominent reference seemed to be to Thinking
        Machines (whose logo was used in the credits and which was
        referred to by name in the credits).

        Bob

        P.S.  Every time I see a re-run of "Ghostbusters" it gives me
        a thrill just to see the Rainbow on the desk. :-}
2568.115My hands are "digital"CORPRL::RALTOIt's all part of the show!Mon Jul 19 1993 16:2715
    I just bought a telephone whose product name is:
    
    	Digital Answering System
    
    Interesting that it wasn't a description of the product, or even
    the name of a feature of the product, it was the actual product
    name for the entire unit.
    
    Now, it was made (or at least distributed) by some outfit calling
    themselves "General Electric".  Darn good thing they didn't try
    calling it a General telephone.
    
    Or, even worse, a General Digital Answering System!
    
    Chris
2568.116SEND::KILGOREAdiposilly challengedTue Jul 20 1993 13:2815
    
    Re: "Jurassic Park" replies
    
    Heard on the net...
    
    What's the difference between "Jurassic Park" and Digital Equipment
    Corp?
    
    
    One is a high-tech amusement park with a bunch of old dinosaurs running
    around...
    
    
    ...and the other is a movie.
    
2568.117Digital on the west coast?2679::UNCAGD::CLARKTBDTue Jul 20 1993 13:554
Mentioned in this week's Computer World:

    Advanced Digital Information Corp.
    in Redmond, WA
2568.118Accountability?ODIXIE::SILVERSDave, have POQET will travelTue Jul 20 1993 15:005
    I'd suspect that even with 250 letters (that stuff about 'under penalty
    of perjury' will keep ALOT of reps from even showing this to customers
    ...), we'll have a hard time trademarking 'digital'.  Wanna bet that
    noone will be held 'accountable' for not doing this BEFORE spending all
    those ad $$$?
2568.119What should we know??RDGENG::NEWBERRYHTue Jul 20 1993 16:1923
    Has the name 'Digital' not been trademarked already?  How come, seeing
    as they are advertising, telling us it is Digital and so on.  Do we
    really need 250 people's signatures to get anything done?
    
    Also, I was just re-reading Digital World - the issue about the new
    branding campaign.  It stated that many employees were asked about the
    new branding campaign and able to give their opinions etc.  Who are
    they - are there any of you out there, if so please tell me what they
    told and asked you?  Also, can anyone else tell me the types of
    information they received/are receiving about the new branding policy
    and how employees should be reflecting it.  I have not seen anything,
    but am hoping I am an isolated case.
    
    Also, Laurie - in relation to note .110, I have lost track of what your
    questions were.  If you still want them answered, please repeat them
    and I will if I or anyone else has the answers.
    
    I hope that I am not the only person getting more and more confused
    about the branding policy!!
    
    
    Hannah
     
2568.120MU::PORTERnone of the aboveTue Jul 20 1993 17:0716
Employee 'branding' questionnaire:


Your Name _______________________

Your Resource ID ________________
(formerly known as Badge Number)

Q1.   Do you want to keep your job?    yes[ ]   no[ ]

Q2.   Do you agree that "digital" is
      a really nifty idea, and is the
      right name for this company?     yes[ ]   no[ ]



2568.121:-)XLIB::SCHAFERMark Schafer, Development AssistanceTue Jul 20 1993 21:041
    where do they put the Employee brand?  Does it hurt?
2568.122DEC MKO1 Hedges Its Bets On New Company NameNRSTA2::KALIKOWPartially sage, &amp; rarely on timeTue Jul 20 1993 21:5229
    MERRIMACK, NH (A_P_not), 20 July 1993:  This reporter visited the
    Merrimack campus of Digital Equipment Corporation(tm) today, and
    reports to his UTTER confusion that there is a large ornamental topiary
    hedge just outside the MKO1 Lobby entrance.  Contrary to his
    expectation (having just been asked by his friendly (but unaccountably
    blushing?) Digital Equipment Corporation Sales Representative to sign a
    fairly involved and intimidating legal representation concerning the
    meaning, to him, of the generic adjective "DIGITAL" -- (FYI, you may be
    amused and/or relieved to hear that (under penalty of perjury, mind
    you) I asserted that DIGITAL denotes to me "DIGITAL EQUIPMENT
    CORPORATION")) -- that the topiary hedge would have 7 letters in it, I
    was Shocked, SHOCKED I say, to find that while the old familiar "D" was
    first in the set of three letters cut into the hedge, that there were
    two other upstart letters following it, neither of which is to be found
    in "IGITAL."
    
    As I left, I further observed that MKO staff were being exhorted to Do
    The Right Thing with shears kindly being provided by the Legal staff.
    
    One hopes that the proper order of things was restored.
    
    PS -- Truth to tell, my primary association of "DIGITAL" with "DIGITAL
    EQUIPMENT CORPORATION" stems from the fact that I am, in fact, not an
    employee of A_P_not, but of DEC *whoops* DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION.
    
    PPS -- major :-)
    
    Dan
    
2568.123it's something in the waterXLIB::SCHAFERMark Schafer, Development AssistanceWed Jul 21 1993 17:162
    Gee, I thought the hedges grew like that naturally in New Hampshire.
    :-)
2568.124PLAYER::BROWNLThe match has gone outThu Jul 22 1993 15:306
    RE: .119
    
    Hannah, my questions were posed in .25, in the last two paragraphs. In
    a way, they've been overtaken by events, but still remain unanswered..
    
    Laurie.
2568.125"Please make the pain go away, Doctor."MBALDY::LANGSTONThe secret is strong ears.Fri Jul 23 1993 07:3913
    The interesting thing to me about this is that, as a field (formerly
    associated with sales, as Sales Support and now associated with Digital
    Consulting, though still as Sales Support - Damn! This computer
    business is complicated!) person, and, until very recently, an
    extremely indirect (there must be at least 10 layers of management, 11
    of which are veepees) report of Russ's, I didn't receive the memo 
    referenced in .99!
    
    What's even more interesting (sick, you might say) is that I'm staring 
    into this liquid crystal diode, communicating and ruminating about it 
    at 12:35 in the morning!
    
    Bruce      
2568.126LCD=Liquid Crystal DisplayPOLAR::SAVOVFri Jul 23 1993 22:2210
    Re: .125
    
     Maybe you mean a liquid crystal display (LCD)? :-).  I can tell it
    must be late at night (or early in the morning) for you.
    
    I couldn't resist it.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Emil 
2568.127Some answersRDGENG::NEWBERRYHTue Jul 27 1993 10:4055
    This note is in relation to Laurie's questions posed in .25 which
    haven't really been answered.  I am going to try to answer them
    and hopefully provoke some more noting as this conference has come to a
    gradual halt.  The three points I gathered that Laurie was trying to
    raise were:
    
    ~	 a definition of branding
    ~	 what Digital expects to gain from branding
    ~	 why Digital was chosen over DEC
    
    Ok.  With the help of various books I have looked at, I'll try to
    provide an insight into branding. 
    
    When a consumer chooses brand A rather than brand B, he or she is
    identifying with that image, joining a club.  The image is not a single
    entity and it is difficult to make tangible.  It is an impression which
    to consumer perceives of the brand, a systhesis of many impressions as
    a direct or indirect result of a variety of signals transmitted by the
    brand (and perhaps the company) of which advertising is one.  The
    advertisement is part of the product which is to say thst the image is
    part of the product.  (Company Image and Reality - David Bernstein)
    
    To me, this helps explain that Digital were/are trying to create some
    form of consistency of image.  Therefore advertising new messages to
    bring together all impressions of Digital into one general idea, eg
    imagination.  The advertising campaign is not our actual brand, it is
    just trying to establish the brand by the imagination idea, next time
    it may be something else.  The brand is Digital - not DEC, not
    imagination, not anything but Digital.
    
    I mailed Peter Phillips and in his mail back to me he helped explain
    the Digital/DEC debate.  DEC is actually a brand name of Digital;
    Digital being the top level brand.  DEC has the same brand theory as
    does VAX, PDP and so on.  DEC describes non-VMS operating systems just
    as VMS describes a non-DEC operating system.  The fact that DEC was
    taken on board as a widely used name should indeed have been stopped
    before it went as far as it has.  But the fact remains that Digital in
    some shape or form has always been the top level name.
    
    Digital expects to gain a consistent and positive image through
    branding.  It is making an attempt (a bit late), to tighten the belt
    and try to communicate the same message rather than a set of
    conflicting messages.  It is trying to establish one company, one name,
    one set of pre-conceptions and one set of goals.  Whether it succeeds
    is the next question, but that remains to be seen.
    
    I personally think that all of this could have been done in a much
    different way, as can many other people.  But the fact remains that it
    has been done in this way, and we all just have to stick to it.  How we
    can when no one tells us anything I don't know, but I think that they
    think that we know what we should be doing to reflect the campaign!
    
    I hope this has helped answer some more questions and maybe helped in a
    last ditch attempt to keep this conference going.  Everyone - you can
    all have your say here so go for it!
2568.128PAOIS::HILLAn immigrant in ParisTue Jul 27 1993 11:2610
    One of the things I heard was that we are known by a very large
    proportion of the population.
    
    Unfortunately, the way in which we are known is not consistent.  One
    sector knows us as Digital, another as DEC, another as PDP, another as
    VAX, another as VMS and another as DECsomething.
    
    The sum total is that we have an image problem.
    
    Nick
2568.129Exactly!RDGENG::NEWBERRYHTue Jul 27 1993 13:182
    Exactly, that is why all this effort is going on internally and
    externally to create some form of consistency.
2568.130on utilizing media to improve name recognitionSTAR::ABBASIplay chess, its good 4 uTue Jul 27 1993 13:4613
    i still dont get it why we dont have Alpha chips advertisement blasted
    all over on TV like Intel have all the time, especially the one in 
    conjecture with the amdex (?) stock exchange where they talk about the 
    chip in a nice  commercial with lots of lights and colors and all, why 
    can't we too have commercials like that about Alpha on TV so people 
    can start catching the name of it?

    i strongly believe that TV is the number one media to pollster any
    name recognition, yet, over an over, we seem not to utilize it,
    any one knows why we ignore the power of TV media in our advertisement 
    efforts? 

    \nasser 
2568.131QBUS::M_PARISESouthern, but no comfortTue Jul 27 1993 15:0317
Hannah,
Your notes and enthusiasm are refreshing, but I can't help feeling that 
Digital's branding campaign is a bit like trying to effect one's grade
point average mid-way through one's senior year.
You asked earlier how employees were exposed to the branding campaign.
I was only exposed to the notion of the branding campaign via NOTES and
the April publication of Digital World.
Notesfiles is virtually my primary information conduit regarding company
matters.  (Excluding the SOP mail memos.)

Also, Re: .119, and the "suggestion" to 250 customers, etc.
Am I the only one who detected a thinly disguised solicitation to commit
perjury?  Doesn't that at least border on questionable ethics and honesty?


Mike
    
2568.132NRSTA2::KALIKOWPartially sage, &amp; rarely on timeTue Jul 27 1993 15:147
    Mike,  re your "thinly disguised solicitation..." phrase:  that's why
    the fictional salesperson in my .122 was blushing...  that, and the
    rather preposterous (imho) notion that any member of the Sales force
    would VOLUNTARILY put one of their customers through that ordeal.  I
    should think it would take quite a bit of coercion on the part of their 
    management to induce them to broach such a form with a paying customer.
    
2568.133Digital the halls with boughs of holly....SWAM1::STERN_TOTom Stern -- Have TK, will travel!Tue Jul 27 1993 22:405
    I don't know about the rest of you, but I have trouble thinking of
    myself as a "Digitaly" instead of a "DECy".  Makes me sound like a
    brand of heart medicine.
    
    tom
2568.134Digital - we rent backhoes, see your paychek...ODIXIE::SILVERSDave, have POQET will travelTue Jul 27 1993 23:341
    (that's pronounced dig-it-all)
2568.135TALLIS::PARADISThere's a feature in my soup!Wed Jul 28 1993 18:3716
    Just another data point in this "brand recognition" debate:
    
    Yesterday I got the latest "Popular Science" in the mail (this is a
    mass-market gee-whiz science magazine published in U.S.).  The cover
    story was on the next generation of microprocessors.
    
    Our company, of course, rated a mention.  When we were introduced,
    the writer referred to "Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC)", and
    thereafter referred to us as "DEC" for the rest of the article.
    
    Seems as though at least *some* segment of the population knows us 
    by our nickname, no?
    
    Oh, and they also referred to our CPU offering as "Alpha"; no "AXP"
    or anything like that...
    
2568.136GRANMA::MWANNEMACHERNeck, red as Alabama clayWed Jul 28 1993 20:449
    
    
    Well there are a fairly large number of folks out there who do know us
    as DEC.  I think we should modify the logo and include DEC in the logo
    (HPesque).  Isn't DEC copyrighted by Digital?
    
    
    
    Mike
2568.137Old gas and tin-can carsTNPUBS::JONGSteve Jong/T and N PublicationsFri Jul 30 1993 02:5315
    Two points about trademarks.  One is an old New Yorker cartoon I
    clipped, showing a couple driving in the country.  They knew they were
    REALLY out in the sticks when they came to an Esso station.
    
    The other point is about the Three Diamonds brand.  When I was growing
    up, in the sixties, there were TV commercials for Three Diamonds tuna
    (I can still recall the jingle -- "Three Diamond brand, fan-cy tu -
    na").  I was surprised when I started seeing the logo on automobiles,
    which I guess I unconsciously associated with tin cans for many years. 
    Finally the company with the three-diamond logo revealed itself as
    Mitsubishi, as in Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.  They had to establish
    their presence in the US market very slowly; had they walked in the
    front door as Mitsubishi, a whole generation of World War II veterans
    would have associated them with the fighter planes they manufactured
    and never bought the stuff.
2568.138WELCLU::ADAMSFri Jul 30 1993 12:5074
As has previously been said, branding is all about conveying recognition,
identification, meaning and image in order to get "mindshare" and hence market
share.

To be successful this has to be meaningful to the prospective audience.

"Digital" is not meaningful in any way.  "Digital" means nothing.

"Putting imagination to work" is not a bad slogan, but it is rather spoiled by
being associated with a name that exhibits no imagination whatsoever. 
Psychologically this ruins the message.



Some comments on what has gone before:

Re .37 >Digital is a nebulous concept

 - this is *precisely* the issue.

Re .50

What a great name (no offence intended) - now that could be the basis of a 
great branding campaign!

Re .81 >evokes no mental image

Therein lies the problem with the name

Re .99

One of the best things that could happen to Digital is that the name is refused
a trademark (which is virtually certain) and that we dropped the name
altogether.  What a shame that such a lot of effort was spent in trying to get
people to persuade the courts to use a name when this is the last thing we
should be doing.


Re .116 Luv it!!!

Re .120 Great stuff!


Re .127

Trying to establish 1 company, 1 name, 1 set of goals etc. is self-defeating 
when the company is in the inexorable process of breaking itself up.


Other comments:

The last thing alpha new business marketing needs is to be associated with is
"Digital".  It would be more appropriate to market it via a separate company,
"Alpha Microtech" or somesuch.

A message such as "alpha - the new beginning for computing" would then be 
powerful.

Digital is going through such major change that a far more radical change
 in image would have been appropriate.  I do not see this as risky, but a
necessity.

Digital is a conservative company with an overemphasis on protection
of existing business. This is something which will inevitably distort alpha
marketing efforts.

Alpha will not be the saviour of the Digital that currently exists.  It will
probably catalyse the formation of a new much smaller organisation.

Regards,

Peter


2568.139The customers will decide our fate today!JACOBI::JACOBIPaul A. Jacobi - OpenVMS AXP DevelopmentFri Jul 30 1993 14:016
Any bets on whether we will receive 250 declarations as .99 requested by today's
deadline?


							-Paul
2568.140HLFS00::CHARLESThe wizzard from OssFri Jul 30 1993 14:029
    In the mean time we do everything to confuse our prospective customers.
    Digital in Holland is one of the sponsors of a major tennis tourniment.
    On the posters our old blue logo is printed. Our logo at the
    tenniscourt is grass green lettering on a white background.
    And to make sure we mess up big time we tell customers in a brochure on
    Alpha AXP that it's so good because it's designed by Digital Equipment
    Company.
    
    Charles
2568.141CHEFS::STAALHTo boldly go where I've been beforeFri Jul 30 1993 15:2951
    re: .138
    
    I agree with all the previous notes regarding the adoption
    of Digital as the corporate name. My reference (in .37) to
    a "Digital" being a nebulous concept and not really the issue
    was in reply to a previous noter's concerns regarding violations
    of trade marks and generic use of the name cf. Hoover and Aspirin.
    
    The name Digital is unfortunate not because it doesn't mean
    anything but because it does mean something. It has a distinct
    meaning in the English language, especially in the industry in
    which we operate. To now try to persuade people to think of an
    IT vendor when they hear the word digital is a bit of a lost
    cause - although Sun and Apple have had some success. What will
    Digital Consulting mean - consulting by a company called Digital
    or consulting related to digital technology ? Therefore
    I personally will be very suprised if the trademark application
    were to succeed (on a slight tangent how can 250 people be
    representative of the whole of the USA ??).
                               
    Hannah summed up very eloquently (.127) the motivations for trying
    to (belatedly) re-establish this company's top-level brand. The
    slight change of logo to new friendly letters (any similarity
    to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy is purely coincidental) is
    only in line with current corporate fashions (BT, BP etc.) as indeed
    is the corporate branding campaign.
    
    The choice of Digital over DEC, we are told, is due to greater
    recognition of the name Digital. I would be very interested in
    the composition of the sample that was used for the market
    research that resulted in this discovery. What was the mix in
    terms of:
    
    -current clients vs users of other manufacturers kit/services
    -geographical distribution (current markets vs future markets)
    -IT professionals vs other corporate functionaries
    -general public (with the move to commodity products the scope
    for the general public to become exposed to IT will greatly increase
    - again a future market).
    -decision makers (and any trends in the decision makers ie. move
    down the managerial hierarchy, more end user based vs IT function
    based)
    -the people exposed to our different product offerings (HW,SW,
    consultancy etc).
    
    In other words how forward looking have we been in establishing
    the corporate identity ?
    
    To finish on a positive note, I really like the imagination tag.
    
    Hans
2568.142TOOK::MORRISONBob M. LKG1-3/A11 226-7570Fri Jul 30 1993 21:0610
  If "Digital" becomes a registered trademark, does that mean people will no
longer be able to say "digital computer" in the sense of non-analog computer?
Note that if "Digital" is the first word in the sentence or the entire text is
uppercase, the distinction between "Digital" and "digital" is hidden.
  I recall that there is a precedent for converting a stand-alone common word
to a trademark, but I don't recall what it is at the moment. In almost all
cases, either the trademark is spelled differently (such as Fiberglas) than
the generic word or the generic word (such as aspirin) was created from the
brand name.
  The deadline is now; did we get our 250 statements in time?
2568.143The AdsRDGENG::NEWBERRYHWed Aug 04 1993 14:4423
    On a slightly different note, does anyone have anything to say about
    the media ads that have been running.  I have seen a few (something
    about an operation, one with people running, one with a woman on a
    diving board and one with the two old ladies) and wondered what the
    general response was/is.  I think it would be interesting to know if
    they were eye-catching to the non-employee.  Obviously I take notice of
    them because they are done by Digital, but does anyone else?
    
    I have been reading up on corporate advertising recently and one
    argument is that companies try to cover up their problems by good
    advertising and publicity while the problem still bubbles away.  On the
    other hand, some companies properly put together all their ideals and
    thoughts that they wish to put across and come up with an effective
    marketing strategy.  I couldn't say what I think Digital has done, I
    hope it is the latter, bu sometimes my loyalty is questioned.
    
    I personally think that the ad with the two women is very amusing and
    clever, the others are more of a cliche to me, but that is a matter of
    opinion.  I actually think that despite being a cliche, they use
    visuals and words (incorporating the imagination theory) very well, and
    without saying it, they all relate to the industry.
    
    Any thoughts???
2568.144GRANMA::MWANNEMACHERNeck, red as Alabama clayWed Aug 04 1993 15:1916
    
    
    I don't think they relate to the industry at all.  Have you seen the
    half apple half orange ad?  To me this represents a tired, worn out
    cliche that one resorts to when they have run out of substance to make
    their point.  
    
    We need to define ourselves before we start these cutsey, irrelevant
    commercials, assuming that people know who we are. 
    
    
    
    My $0.02 (less $0.01 for inflation)
    
    
    Mike  
2568.145Extension grantedAIMHI::BOWLESMon Aug 09 1993 12:3024
    Here's an excerpt from a Russ Gullotti memo which was on the wire this
    morning.  Looks like they didn't get the required number of customer
    testimonials.  Got an extension instead.....
    
    
    
    Subject: Digital Trademark Declarations
    
    You will remember that I asked you to help us obtain declarations from
    your customers confirming that when they hear the word "Digital," it
    means hardware and software manufactured or licensed by Digital
    Equipment Corporation.
    
    Unfortunately, even though some account representatives have sent as
    many as three declarations from their customers, the Law Department has
    received very few declarations to date.  We're a long way from the
    number we believe necessary to substantiate our registration petition.
    
    We therefore had to apply for and fortunately were granted a final
    extension of time by the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board to August 20.
    
    In order to submit the declarations on time, the Law Department must
    have them in hand by the end of business on Monday, August 16.
    
2568.146GO DIGITALGRANMA::FDEADYdefinitely, definitely no logicMon Aug 09 1993 13:365
    I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but I hope the Trademark
    officials (U.S. Government) are not avid Compuserve users. Our PC
    group, and Forum, is DECPCI. Maybe Digital should change it?
    
    		fred deady
2568.147GO DEC! 8-)TALLIS::PARADISThere's a feature in my soup!Mon Aug 09 1993 18:258
    Hmmm... what will happen if we all scrounge up 250 articles that
    refer to us as "DEC"? 8-) 8-) 8-)
    
    [sheesh... why can't we just use *both* names as brand identifiers?
    It works for Coca-Cola ("Coke"), among others...]
    
    --jim
    
2568.148good example !CVG::THOMPSONRadical CentralistMon Aug 09 1993 18:507
    >    [sheesh... why can't we just use *both* names as brand identifiers?
>    It works for Coca-Cola ("Coke"), among others...]

    I read once that Coca Cola fought the use of "Coke" for some time.
    Finally they gave up and made it official.

    		Alfred
2568.149IBM says they are Digital, too!WRKSYS::SEILERLarry SeilerMon Aug 09 1993 20:113
    Last week at SIGgraph (the premier academic computer graphics
    conference and equipment expo) a lot of the IBMers had T shirts that
    said on the back "Join the Digital Revolution", with the IBM logo. 
2568.150LGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (Bob, DTN 223-8576, MSO2-2/A2, Tue Aug 10 1993 14:5711
re Note 2568.145 by AIMHI::BOWLES:

>                              -< Extension granted >-
> 
>     Here's an excerpt from a Russ Gullotti memo which was on the wire this
>     morning.  Looks like they didn't get the required number of customer
>     testimonials.  Got an extension instead.....
  
        You mean that this ISN'T a joke!?

        Bob
2568.151AIMHI::BOWLESTue Aug 10 1993 17:169
    RE:  .150
    
    >>You mean that this ISN'T a joke!?
    
    >>        Bob
    
    
    Nope.
    Chet
2568.152THEBAY::CHABANEDSpasticus DyslexicusTue Aug 10 1993 17:4810
    
    Questions:
    
    What if we miss the extension?  Will any VPs become cannon-fodder?
    Will we finally acknowledge that DEC is not such a bad name?
    
    Doubtful.
    
    -Ed
    
2568.153My predictions...DECWET::FARLEEInsufficient Virtual...um...er...Tue Aug 10 1993 17:5518
 
 >   Questions:
    
 >   What if we miss the extension?  Will any VPs become cannon-fodder?
 >   Will we finally acknowledge that DEC is not such a bad name?

Predictions:
If we do manage to get the trademark, we will see a flurry of huge memos
about 1) how great it is that we succeeded in getting it, and 2) how
important it is for each of us to be vigilant in protecting that trademark.

If (as I personally expect, having nothing but a hunch to back it up) we fail
to get the trademark, we will hear...
NOTHING.

Nobody will be shot in public, and no announcements whatsoever will be made
officially.  It would just be too embarassing. The Brand Campaign may or may not
fizzle out.
2568.154PAMSRC::ALF::BARRETTRobot Roll CallTue Aug 10 1993 20:336
EVERYONE I know outside the company (that is into computers) does NOT think
of Digital Equipment when they hear "digital". However, when they hear "DEC",
they immediately do.

Says it all I think. Face reality.

2568.155LGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (Bob, DTN 223-8576, MSO2-2/A2, Tue Aug 10 1993 22:0911
re Note 2568.154 by PAMSRC::ALF::BARRETT:

> EVERYONE I know outside the company (that is into computers) does NOT think
> of Digital Equipment when they hear "digital". However, when they hear "DEC",
> they immediately do.
  
        Is it merely sufficient to get 250 customers that support
        your position, even if one could have gotten ten times as
        many to support a conflicting interpretation of "Digital"?

        Bob
2568.156WLDBIL::KILGOREAdiposilly challengedWed Aug 11 1993 13:334
    
    Gee, do you think if we could gather up 250 "DEC" customer declarations
    by 16-Aug, someone upstairs would see the light?
    
2568.157(-: Sorry, couldn't resist :-)DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedWed Aug 11 1993 13:3715
       @begin(-:Tongue_in_cheek:-)

       QUESTION:

       What is the name of the mentally paralyzing substance that
       must be used to convert an old-line DECcie into The New
       Corporate Style?

       ANSWER:


DIGITALis the name.

       @end(-:Tongue_in_cheek:-)

2568.158the original meaning of "digital"KAOU30::JAMESIt's the MANAGEMENT stupid!!!Wed Aug 11 1993 14:157
    In a recent show on "RoundHouse", a satiric show for teens on
    Nickelodeon, the father suffered from a swelled thumb due to over-use
    of his TV-remote.  
    
    He said, "don't think of me as handicapped, think of me as 
    digitally challenged".
    
2568.159ICS::CROUCHSubterranean Dharma BumThu Aug 12 1993 11:2014
    The branding campaign has yet to take hold here in Mass. This a.m.
    there was a story on the local ABC station which mentioned the
    problem that DEC was having with the State over our venture into
    South Africa. Regardless of the story the newscaster never mentioned
    us as digital but used DEC, deck, many times. 
    
    This campaign will take some time. I get many blank looks when I tell
    people I work for digital. When I say DEC they know the company. Of
    course our imagine stinks right now. Once they know who I work for they
    usually say something that you'd expect to hear at a wake.
    
    Jim C.
    
    
2568.160DEMOAX::GINGERRon GingerThu Aug 12 1993 15:224
    re: -2  "digitally impaired."
    
    A recent rape conviction was for a digital rape.
    
2568.161A new venture?DYPSS1::COGHILLSteve Coghill, Luke 14:28Fri Aug 13 1993 13:138
   Of course the world thinks of Digital Equipment Corp. when the hear
   the word "digital."  Why just this morning I heard a commercial for
   Crane air conditioners.  They have some sort of promotion going where
   a customer can get a digital calculator.
   
   I feel really bad as an employee.  I must spend too much time in
   EINFs because I didn't even know we had branched out into
   calculators.
2568.162Hmmm...NODEX::ADEYThese ARE the good old days...Fri Aug 13 1993 15:195
    I was just wondering...If MicroSoft was denied a trademark on
    'Windows', what chance do we have of trademarking 'digital'?
    
    Ken....
    
2568.163Give up "DEC" to gain "DIJ" ???ICS::MORRISEYFri Aug 13 1993 15:4912
    
    An earlier note observed that if a 'name' is too long, people will
    always find a shorter version...
    
    Speaking with a doctor recently, I told him I worked at "Digital".
    We were in Massachusetts, so the company is known to him.
    
    Trying to be "familiar", he then replied, "So how are things going 
    at 'DIJ' ?"
    
    Well, I guess I asked for it .... If I'd said I worked at DEC,
    he'd have used "DEC" ... 
2568.164RAGMOP::LOWELLGrim Grinning Ghosts...Fri Aug 13 1993 16:4121
    I found this while browsing through my Crutchfield Catalog Update,
    Late Summer 1993.  I guess we're building answering machines too.
    NOT!
    
        Feature Flash:
    
        The Digital Difference
    
        For hassle-free operation day-in and day-out, try a digital
        answering machine.  They're easier to use and more reliable
        than cassette-based models, giving one-touch instant access
        to your messages.
    
        Digital answering machines record messages on a computer
        memory chip instead of a cassette tape (but the sound
        quality is as good or better than a tape).
            .
            .
            .
        *Our digital answering machines include the Sony TAM-1000
        (left) and Panasonic XT-8000 on the next page.*
2568.165re .163: From my long-term storage, Psycholinguistics File:DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedFri Aug 13 1993 16:5940
.163>    An earlier note observed that if a 'name' is too long, people will
.163>    always find a shorter version...
 
    Quite right.  Benjamin Lee Whorf, I believe, coined "Whorf's Law" by
    which he demonstrated that the more frequently-mentioned a concept
    becomes, the shorter becomes its spoken and written length.  Hence,
    "TV" and "telly" from "television," "'phone" and then "phone" from
    "telephone," "Mac" from "Macintosh," and so on and on. 
    
    (-: Please, no ratholes on other Whorfish examples or detours into the
    wonders of and needs for acronyms; take 'em to THEBAY::JOYOFLEX :-)
    
    Please note that as WE are attempting to increase the frequency-of-
    usage of DIGITAL, the popular culture is, also -- but in other, more
    generic terms:  "digital audio & video"; "the increasing digital
    convergence"; "digital media"; and so on and on, to the detriment of
    our minority interest in co-opting that word.  We're a bit late to
    claim it as our own, imho.
    
    Part of the value (imho) of the "DEC" morpheme is that it uniquely
    identifies "DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION," while "DIGITAL" is
           
    (a)=> simultaneously harder to pronounce (multiple phonemes &
          graphemes),
    
    (b)=> reduces to a generic -- and increasingly popular! -- adjective
          (which is imho worse than Microsoft WINDOWS, which reduces to a
          generic noun) and                           
    
    (c)=> is also subject to the sort of harmless japes as .163's "DIJ",
          and the more sarcastic ones that Your Ob't Server has been
          responsible for (e.g., "DIGITALis its name.")  For which I
          apologize... but not really.  :->  The underlying point of the
          sarcasm stands.  And the constructive criticism, too, I hope.
    
    I hasten to add that I would be remiss to make such a point in a
    public (extra-DIGITAL) forum, of course; and that I never have or
    would.                                                 

2568.166Getting another finger from DTINRSTA2::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedSat Aug 14 1993 20:1219
    I was in my local Stop & Shop supermarket today and was walking by the
    touch-screen store directory kiosk.  I was struck by the screen (well
    not literally) because instead of its normal option-button appearance,
    it seemed to have been in maintenance mode.  It contained the following
    information, which I transcribed to my shopping-list and now to your
    screen:
    ===== begin screen transcript =====
    DIGITAL TECHNIQUES, INC.  TOUCHCOM  Version 5.53.001, 3-11-87
    
    Terminal ID=999999  Mem Size 896 KB
    Tests:        0000
    PUC:          1601
    Test Cycles   3482
    Uptime:      10678 Hrs.
    
    Test        Passed       Errors
    ===== end screen transcript =====
    No mention was made of any trademark on the vendor name.
    
2568.167B. Breathed: OUTLAND comic strip, today, Boston Sunday GLOBEDRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedSun Aug 15 1993 15:2936
    						(reproduced without permission)
    Scene:	Bathroom with toilet labeled R.I.P.
    
    OPUS:  	We are gathered here to lay to rest yet another obsolete
                way of life...
    
    OLIVER:	(takes camera out of shoebox)
    
    OPUS:	The camera has croaked.  Photography has kicked the
                bucket... pushed into an early grave by digital computer
    		imagery...  joining its martyred brothers, the slide rule
    		and the vinyl record.  Sniff.  Do it.  Quickly!
    
    OLIVER:	(drops camera into toilet with KERPLUNK!)
    
    OPUS:	OH, LITTLE NIKON, WE HARDLY KNEW YE!
    
    OLIVER: 	(flushes)
    
    OPUS:	CURSE THE WRETCHED COLD HEART OF PROGRESS!
    
    OLIVER:	(honk)
    
    OPUS:	(sob)
    
    RANDOM 
    COCKROACH:  (sniff)
    
    OPUS:	Should we get a shot of this?
    
    OLIVER:	Naw.  I'll make a digital composite of ourselves with an 
    		enhanced background later.
    
    COCKROACH:  Leave out my zits.
    
                
2568.168PLAYER::BROWNLWhat a week that was!Wed Aug 18 1993 16:278
    So, it's two days past the deadline. What happened? Or, as predicted,
    will we hear no more?
    
    The fact that we could have found thousands of "testamonials" to say of
    "DEC", what they're asking of "digital", makes me chuckle. As someone
    said earlier, face reality.
    
    Laurie.
2568.169SAHQ::LUBERFire Cox,Trade Justice,Bring up LopezThu Aug 19 1993 12:467
    In the 80's, General Electric changed its name to GE for the purpose of
    de-associating itself with businesses that were only related to the use
    and generation of electricity.  Over time, the term GE has lost its
    association as "General Electric" just like IBM has lost its
    association with "International Business Machines".  Digital would haveDigital would hve
    done better to become simply "DEC", without any reference to Digital
    Equipment Corporation.  What a foul up!
2568.170answer in 25 words or FEWERLEDS::OLSENThu Aug 19 1993 17:0512
    Please forgive me for not identifying myself to people as working for
    "Digital"
    
    In social settings, I always use "Digital Equipment" in introduction.
    Once people get to know me, then "Digital" does work.  But as an
    introduction, "Digital" feels too ambiguous.  Some friends you can
    tease by giving them an ambiguous answer;  it is unwise to do this
    ambiguity stuff when making first impressions.
    
    So, do any of you out there trust "Digital" in cold-call situations?
    
    /rich
2568.171what?LGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (DTN 223-8576, MSO2-2/A2, IM&amp;T)Mon Aug 23 1993 03:1711
re Note 2568.169 by SAHQ::LUBER:

>     In the 80's, General Electric changed its name to GE for the purpose of
>     de-associating itself with businesses that were only related to the use
  
        GE's own image ads include the name "General Electric"
        somewhere in them.  Also, the "GE" logo must be one of the
        oldest industrial logos still in use.  I think they use both,
        as appropriate (as does General Motors, for example).

        Bob
2568.172SAHQ::LUBERFire Cox,Trade Justice,Bring up LopezMon Aug 23 1993 16:037
    GE continues to display General Electric in their ads because they
    don't want to lose the trademark.  They refer to themselves, verbally,
    and in their annual report, simply as GE.  The General Electric is
    downplayed for reasons I mentioned earlier.
    
    Too bad we don't have as recognizable a DEC monogram as the GE
    meatball.
2568.173STAR::ABBASIiam a good si'kickMon Aug 23 1993 17:487
    i think more people recognize the name "VAX" more than "DEC",
    when i said "VAX" to some friends, some of them heared of it, but when
    i said "DEC" more than not they did not know what iam talking about.
    
    makes you wonder?
    
    \nasser
2568.174MILPND::J_TOMAOTue Aug 24 1993 14:259
    The media Still refers to us as DEC.  This morning while waiting for
    the local weather...WXLO, based out of Fitchburg/Worcester Mass
    annouced "DEC will be closer their Westminster building by January"
    
    In the news report and the blurb before it we were refered to as
    "Digital Equipment Corpration" once, "Digital" twice, and "DEC" 4
    times.
    
    Joyce
2568.175DECsystem, DECtalk, DECtp...ASDG::SBILLTue Aug 24 1993 16:096
    
    If we are supposed to stop using DEC when describing Digital then I wonder 
    why we still insist on naming our products DECthis and DECthat. Talk
    about a confusing message!
    
    Steve B. 
2568.176AIMHI::TLAPOINTETue Aug 24 1993 16:235
    Maybe we should just  move to Texas, rename ourselves the 
    "Lonestar Computer Co." and have a Star for our corporate insignia (;-)
    
    We could put a "V" or the greek letter "A" within the star to denote
    which product line(;-)
2568.177ROBOAT::HEBERTCaptain BlighTue Aug 24 1993 17:496
I wonder if they've seen the hedges outside the front door of MKO1. 

Big, big letters that spell out

       D   E   C
       
2568.178Re .177 -- Been there, seen that, even got the DECt-Shirt...DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedTue Aug 24 1993 18:224
     ... see .122
    
    :-)
    
2568.179From Computerworld...TNKSYS::DBROWNWith magic, you have some controlWed Aug 25 1993 02:1919
From Computerworld dated August 23, 1993

The "Inside Lines" column ends with the following:

"Clear the DECs!  It's Digital from now on.  Marketers from the
Maynard, Mass.-based mini maker are on an intensive campaign to 
expunge the "DEC" acronym from the industry's vernacular.  They've 
asked publications to refer to the company as "Digital" from now on.  
We're happy to comply, but we're wondering what Digital is going to do 
with it DECchip 21064, DECpc, DEC 3000 AXP, DECstations, DECsystems, 
DECnet Phase IV, DECnet/OSI, DEChub 900, DECnis 500/600 routers, 
DECconcentrators, DECbridges, DECservers, DEC/EDI, DECimage, DEC C, 
DEC Pascal, DEC Fortran, DEC Ada, DEC Cobol, DEC C++, DECforms, DEC 
Rdb, DEC DBMS, DEC PHIGS, DEC GKS, DECset, DEC DB Integrator, DEC DBA 
Workcenter, DEC RAlly, and DECwindows Motif.  We'll probably find out 
at the next DECworld. ..."

    
2568.180DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedWed Aug 25 1993 02:468
    Well, should we complain?  At least they spelled our name right...
    
    Or was that nameS...
    
    Yikes.  I don't know about you, but *I* was embarrassed reading .179.
    
    Doesn't look like the kind of press coverage we need.
    
2568.181ICS::CROUCHSubterranean Dharma BumWed Aug 25 1993 11:319
    Dan, I'm way past the embarrassment stage. A fellow digit likes to
    equate some of what is going on in the last year or two to a Three
    Stooges Marathon weekend that never ends. You try to channel surf
    and every station has Moe, Larry and Curly. When is Dana Kersey going
    to interject with that deep voice of his 'Now wasn't that fun? On
    the movie loft tonight we will be showing Apocalypse Now'.
    
    Jim C.
    
2568.182FINDER::COFFEYJThe Uk CSC Unix Girlie.Wed Aug 25 1993 12:4110
I thought everything that wasn't an oerating system or hardware was being renamed
to Polycenter something or other anyway, that'll avoid the dec...   
-Hi I'm a Poly-person...  :-)

Seriously though, I always have used digital more than dec - Iused to find a 
lot more people knew it as the 2nd largest employer in Reading.... and still 
now when I call out, ifI have to leave a message internally I'm from  the 
support centre, externally I'm Jo Coffey from Digital.

jo.
2568.183the magazine was only taking a sampleCARAFE::GOLDSTEINGlobal Village IdiotWed Aug 25 1993 21:133
    If you go into VTX Sales_Update_US, the Products and Services Index by
    Name has 17 screens of products beginning with "DEC".  Over 300
    products.  And none beginning with "Digital" within the trademark.
2568.184RAGMOP::FARINAThu Aug 26 1993 23:0411
    After I'd been working here for a few years, my mother told me she ran 
    into an old schoolmate of ours.  I said, "Oh, yeah.  He works at
    Digital."  She said, "No he doesn't.  He works at a place called Deck."
    
    I know of someone else who excitedly told me she was working for
    Digital, too!  She said she was working at a Digital in some place
    where DEC didn't have a building.  Turns out she was working for a
    cheapo watch maker!  ;-)
    
    Hey, maybe we have a corporate multiple personality.  What do you
    think?
2568.185Marketing? What's that?ODIXIE::SILVERSDave, have POQET will travelFri Aug 27 1993 02:028
    I think we should use 'digital' watches as giveaways at tradeshows, and
    that we should also capitalize on 'digital audio' by giving away CD's
    of recordings of the Boston Pops (which we used to support financially,
    don't know about now) included in every CONDIST and CONOLD
    distribution.
    
    
    Marketing, naah, we don't need no stinking marketing!
2568.186a possible solution to the DEC vs digital delimaSTAR::ABBASIiam a good si'kickFri Aug 27 1993 03:1820
    ref. the confusion but people about "DEC" and "digital" being different
    companies.
    
     
    i might have a solution to help on this one, how about if we can some 
    how like combine both "DEC" and "digital" into like one syllabus name 
    and use that instead of just the one of them?

    like may be we become "DECdigital"  or "digitalDEC" or " digDECital" or
    "DgitaldEC" or "dDigitDECal" or "digDECital" ..ectectera..
    
    may be iam getting carried away, but you know what i mean, like combine
    both names into one that is both pleasing to the eye and
    makes a good sound and ring to it. people do remember names better
    if it has a ring to it and rhymes well .

    just an idea.

    \nasser

2568.187or take a leaf from the former 'Prince' ...DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedFri Aug 27 1993 03:3041
    Blend the two orthogonally, as he did with the superimposed male &
    female symbols...
    
    Digital
    E
    C
    
    or, spelling it out further, 
    
    Digital
    Equipment
    Corporation
    
    Hmmm.  It even is an arithmetic progression when rendered in
    fixed-font.  Possibly even 
    
      Digital
     Equipment
    Corporation
    
    or in "modern swoosh-style":
    
     Digital
      Equipment
       Corporation
    
    The point being, of course, to "permit" customers to choose the form
    that is most meaningful for THEM within the pair of extant names, but
    to inextricably link them in all copy, thus eliminating all possible
    brand confusion.
    
    \Nasser, I think it's time for us both to give up our day jobs.
    
    You handle the basic ideas, the cookies, & the chess.  I'll polish your
    stuff up, we'll make a million bucks for Digital
                                              Equipment
                                               Corporation, and they'll
    give us some more cookies & the chance to come up with more great ideas
    like these.
    
    Such a deal!!
2568.188MU::PORTER550 user not localFri Aug 27 1993 12:038
I just saw some comments from a VMS customer on DECnet-VAX, whoops
I mean an OpenVMS customer on DECnet/OSI.

We were asking about "product deficiencies".

One of his biggest complaints was that we kept changing
the $%^& names of everything.

2568.189PLAYER::BROWNLNo... I've had my ears loweredFri Aug 27 1993 13:374
    Well, I asked in .168, on the 18th what the outcome of the "survey"
    was. Will we ever know?
    
    Laurie.
2568.190I'd work for a company owned by Dan & \nasser!TOHOPE::REESE_KThree Fries Short of a Happy MealFri Aug 27 1993 13:417
    Re: 186
    
    Psssst \nasser, better be careful; someone might read that note
    and take it seriously :-)
    
    Karen
    
2568.191re .190 -< I'd work for a company owned by Dan & \nasser! >-DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedFri Aug 27 1993 13:566
    Hate to be the first to say it, especially considering the compliment &
    the source (Hi Karen!), but, umm, to paraphrase Groucho, I don't know
    whether *I* would work for any company that would have me as its owner.
    
    :-)
    
2568.192... people outside the discipline have better insights ...CPDW::CIUFFINIGod must be a Gemini...Fri Aug 27 1993 17:3521
    
    The Beatles tackled this 'name' problem in the White Album when 
    in Rocky Racoon they sang ( and still do.. ) [ if my memory serves
    correctly ]
    
    $ start memory /out = note 
       ... her name was Magill
     but she called herself Lill
     and everyone knew her as Nancy....
    
      ... she and her man, who called himself Dan .... ( Dan K? )
    $ stop memory  
    
    The important thing here is that 'everyone knew her as Nancy'
    ... and more importantly, 'everyone'.
    
    jc
    
    p.s. How about D/igital              
                    E/quipment
                     C/orporation 
2568.193an appropiate quote about what our name should beSTAR::ABBASIiam a good si'kickFri Aug 27 1993 18:059
    
    
    i think at this occasion this quote is appropiate:
    
     "a rose by any other name still will smell as sweat"
    
    original author: william shaksksshspeer
    
    \nasser
2568.194MSBCS::BROWN_LFri Aug 27 1993 19:015
    re .last
    > a rose by any other name still will smell as sweat
    
    I doubt Mr. Shakespear was suggesting that rose synonyms smell
    like a locker room.
2568.195ECADSR::SHERMANSteve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26aFri Aug 27 1993 19:095
    re: .194
    
    Could Mssr. Shakespear have been thinking of Rosie Grear (sp?)?
    
    Steve ;^)
2568.196re .193 these misquotations & misspellings are driving me nuts!DRDAN::KALIKOWSupplely ChainedFri Aug 27 1993 19:2210
    It's *not*
    
    .193> "a rose by any other name still will smell as sweat"
    
    DAMMIT, get it right \nasser!!
    
    "a rose by any other name still wilt smelt as sweat"
    
    tyvm
    
2568.197Nasser? Kalikow?ALAMOS::ADAMSVisualize Whirled Peas!Sat Aug 28 1993 05:284
    I think a couple of noters to need to inhale... O2.
    
    --- Gavin :)
    
2568.198LGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (DTN 223-8576, MSO2-2/A2, IM&amp;T)Sat Aug 28 1993 05:4612
re Note 2568.187 by DRDAN::KALIKOW:

>     or, spelling it out further, 
>     
>     Digital
>     Equipment
>     Corporation
  
        I noticed recently that our big trucks do indeed write it
        this way (at least on the back).

        Bob
2568.199MARX::GRIERmjg's holistic computing agencySat Aug 28 1993 15:5811
    RE: .195:
    
>    re: .194
>    
>    Could Mssr. Shakespear have been thinking of Rosie Grear (sp?)?
>    
>    Steve ;^)
    
       Grier.  No relation.  ;-)
    
    					-mjg
2568.200Bravo!ROYALT::PANDERSONTue Aug 31 1993 03:3010
I heard about today's introduction of our new PCs on both radio (WBZ Boston
during their business news) and television (WLVI Cambridge channel 56 on the Ten
O'Clock News).  Both reports mentioned that the new PCs were aimed at the mass
market and would be priced in the $1000-2000 range.

The coverage was very positive.  The TV anchor said after the story, "While
things are looking up for Digital, another company..."  All this left a very
favorable impression of Digital as a company and the new products.

Paul
2568.2014GL::SUTTONSo this is how it all begins...Tue Aug 31 1993 11:126
    re .200:
    
      I was half-paying attention (dozing off...) as that story was read,
    and I'd swear the WLVI anchor referred to us as "Digital Corporation".
    
      Howzat for name consistency? (-:
2568.202catalogs or on-lineXLIB::SCHAFERMark Schafer, Development AssistanceTue Aug 31 1993 13:133
    where can we get information about the new systems?
    
    Mark
2568.203PC info is on VTXMSDOA::FLACKEnter catchy name hereTue Aug 31 1993 15:016
    Try VTX PRICE  FR-7 will provide prices and part #'s.
    
    VTX Sales Update. 23-Aug Edition.
    
    You may also want to try VTX PRICE on the older LP series. Those prices
    have come down also.
2568.204It's the thought that countsFUNYET::ANDERSONOpenVMS Forever!Tue Aug 31 1993 19:179
2568.205I'm _still_ laughingATLANA::SHERMANDebt Free!Wed Sep 01 1993 19:177
    RE:  <<< Note 2568.193 by STAR::ABBASI "iam a good si'kick" >>>

    Once again \nasser has hit the mark!  In the context of this note
    and its replies, his "appropriate quote" is really appropriate,
    and accurate.

	Ron
2568.206If we say it enough times, does that make it true?QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centWed Oct 27 1993 17:5589
(I consider the attached message to have been intended for wide distribution,
thus I think it is appropriate to post it here. - Steve)

From:	ASABET::ASABET::MRGATE::"A1::GIBSON.JEFFRY" 25-OCT-1993 13:14:27.57
To:	@Distribution_List
Subj:	IMPORTANT MESSAGE REGARDING "DIGITAL" AS A TRADEMARK                   2

From:	NAME: Jeffry Gibson                 
	FUNC: Public Relations Mgmt.          
	TEL: 223-6865                         <GIBSON.JEFFRY AT A1 at EMASA2 at MLO>
To:     See Below
CC:     See Below



Dear friends,

The Law Department has been taking some important steps regarding 
"Digital" as a trademark of the company.  As part of this activity, 
Corporate Public Relations now will be including the following 
statement on all our press releases, background papers, fact sheets, 
and similar documents and materials:


       Digital is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation.



As appropriate, please include it in your materials.


Attached is a copy of the memo received from the Law Department 
related to this issue.


Regards,

Jef


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     22-Oct-1993 09:23am EDT
                                        From:     VMSMail User pawlina
                                                  pawlina@AM_GAVEL@NEMTS@MSO@MRGATE@NEMTS@NEMTS@MRGATE
                                        Dept:      
                                        Tel No:    

TO:  LEVENSALER@POWDML@MRGATE
TO:  J_GIBSON@ASABET@MRGATE


Subject: RE:  Digital(TM) reference line                             

From:	NAME: PAWLINA <pawlina@AM_GAVEL@NEMTS@MSO>
To:	J_Gibson@Asabet@MRGATE
CC:	Levensaler@Powdml@MRGATE,
	Myria Pawlina@MSO

Hello Jeffry,

I am a Legal Assistant for the Trademark Law Group.

The proper reference line for our Digital(TM) trademark is:

Digital is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation.

We are claiming Digital as our trademark through common law usage of
five consecutive years or more and we have proven use of this
trademark for over 30 years as a Corporation.  Additionally our
request to register this trademark is currently under appeal at the
Patent and Trademark Office.

Please do not change the reference line, it would create havoc
throughout the Corporation.

If I can be of further assistance regarding your trademark questions
please do not hesitate to contact me via my mail node:
GAVEL::PAWLINA or Myria Pawlina @MSO or call me at DTN: 223-8233.

Sincerely,
Myria Pawlina
Legal Assistant

                    DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY Document


------- End of Forwarded Message

2568.207Can I do it too? 8-)TALLIS::PARADISThere's a feature in my soup!Wed Oct 27 1993 17:597
    Very well:  "Jim" is now a trademark of "Jim Paradis".
    
    Anyone named "Jim" should either change his name immediately or send me
    a royalty check 8-)
    
    --Jim[tm]
    
2568.208RLTIME::COOKWed Oct 27 1993 18:1313

>Additionally our
>request to register this trademark is currently under appeal at the
>Patent and Trademark Office.

We are appealing the original ruling.  Does this answer the question as 
to whether we got 250 customers to say that  the word Digital(tm) made them 
think of Digital Equipment Corporation?

Al


2568.209ENABLE::glantzMike @TAY 227-4299 TP Eng LittletonWed Oct 27 1993 18:144
I believe the approach advocated in the memo in .206 is called "proof
by vigorous assertion". It's not recognized as a valid form of proof in
mathematics or debate, but, as I'm not a lawyer, it could very well be
acceptable in the legal biz.
2568.210NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Wed Oct 27 1993 18:216
For my next trick, I will cause havoc throughout the corporation.




Digital is an adjective.
2568.211Re .210...WLDBIL::KILGOREDysfunctional DCU relationshipWed Oct 27 1993 20:085
    
    Bravo!
    
    Encore!
    
2568.212maybe I'm being paranoid butCARAFE::GOLDSTEINGlobal Village IdiotWed Oct 27 1993 20:214
    re:.206
    I wonder if it's significant that the vigorous assertion comes from a
    Legal Assistant, not a member of the bar.  Little details like this
    sometimes hide things.
2568.213Watch it if you misuse my trademark...SMAUG::GARRODFrom VMS -&gt; NT, Unix a future page from historyWed Oct 27 1993 20:457
2568.214We are not making this up.TEKVAX::KOPECpersistent objectThu Oct 28 1993 10:446
    seeing Dave(TM) in .-1 brought on the thought that this whole thread
    reads like a Dave Barry story..
    
    ...tom(TM)
    
    ...tom and ...tek are trademarks of Tom Kopec.
2568.215PLAYER::BROWNLGood girls go to heaven...Thu Oct 28 1993 12:107
    RE: .210
    
    HAHAAHAHAAA!
    
    Laurie(tm).
    
    PS. Actually, this isn't even slightly funny...
2568.216WLDBIL::KILGOREWLDBIL(tm)Thu Oct 28 1993 12:596
    
    Would 250 people please send me mail stating that when you see
    WLDBIL(tm) you think of me.
    
    My attorney thanks you.
    
2568.217Sigh, everyone knows us as Digitial ?STAR::PARKETrue Engineers Combat ObfuscationThu Oct 28 1993 13:2816
    What is really sad,
    
    Our DSP disk drives are starting to show up in the retail market, I
    have seen adds for drivers in the last two months Computer Shopper.
    Not the bigies (Hard Drives Intnl, etc) but the second line (MegaHaus)
    are advertising:
    
    	DSPxxxx Digital(DEC)        $xxxx.xx
    
    Or
    	DEC Drives
    	DSPxxxx			......
    
    William G.[TM]
    
    
2568.218jbeich(tm) is mineDNEAST::BEICHMAN_JOHThu Oct 28 1993 13:3514
    Greetings:
    
    since this is now the "official" trademark your name note:
    
    jbeich(tm) is mine and YOU can't have it...
    
    compare the efforts that this company is putting into this lunacy to
    what the compensation package is doing to sales' morale in string 2728
    -- 2728.58 is particularly poignant and effective -- and ask draw your
    own conclusions about this "ship of fools".
    
    regards,
    
    jbeich(tm)
2568.219Bob(tm) ... before BP gets itROWLET::AINSLEYLess than 150 kts. is TOO slow!Thu Oct 28 1993 14:080
2568.220that's got him..SMURF::WALTERSThu Oct 28 1993 14:541
    ...and British Petroleum already has BP.
2568.221perhaps I should register itLGP30::FLEISCHERwithout vision the people perish (DTN 223-8576, MSO2-2/A2, IM&amp;T)Thu Oct 28 1993 15:207
re Note 2568.219 by ROWLET::AINSLEY:

>                        -< Bob(tm) ... before BP gets it >-
  
        Sorry, 250 of my closest friends already call me that!

        Bob
2568.222WLDBIL::KILGOREWLDBIL(tm)Thu Oct 28 1993 15:215
    
    Re .216:
    
    1 down, 249 to go...
    
2568.223Be carefulHGOVC::JOELBERMANSun Oct 31 1993 11:0116
  >  <<< Note 2568.211 by WLDBIL::KILGORE "Dysfunctional DCU relationship" >>>
  >                              -< Re .210... >-
  >
  >  
  >  Bravo!
  >  
  >  Encore!
    
Did you have AST's permission to say Bravo!  (shoudl I (tm) AST and Bravo)?
    
Did you obtain Encore's permission to say Encore? 
    
    /joel (who gets confused among copyright, trademark, service mark,
    patent, trade-secret, and those little circles wiht the letter 'K' in
    them.
    
2568.224CVG::THOMPSONWho will rid me of this meddlesome priest?Sun Oct 31 1993 20:519
>    /joel (who gets confused among copyright, trademark, service mark,
>    patent, trade-secret, and those little circles wiht the letter 'K' in
>    them.
 
	The little circles with the letter 'K' in them indicate that the
product is Kosher and follows Jewish dietary laws for preperation.

			Alfred
2568.225(-:nit:-)DRDAN::KALIKOWI CyberSurf the Web on NCSA MosaicSun Oct 31 1993 20:551
             Isn't that more properly rendered as Kosher(tm)(K)?
2568.226leaving no mark unmarkedCVG::THOMPSONWho will rid me of this meddlesome priest?Sun Oct 31 1993 21:387
    
    >         Isn't that more properly rendered as Kosher(tm)(K)?

    At the bottom of the page also include "Kosher and the circle K mark
    are trademarks and service marks of God. God is a trademark of God."

    		Alfred
2568.227CSOA1::BROWNESun Oct 31 1993 23:4312
    RE: .206 & .207       
    
    	After reading the above, I couldn't stop chuckling for several
    minutes. Then, when the importance of the issue finally settled over
    me, I realized that it wasn't really funny.
    
    	But, following a couple of seconds of thought, I further
    realized that the whole issue is LAUGHABLE!...so I went back to
    laughing.
    
    P.S.  However, to be frank; it hurts when I laugh.
    
2568.228ZPOVC::HWCHOYSimply Irresistible!Sun Oct 31 1993 23:484
2568.229King Joel is now RoyaltyHGOVC::JOELBERMANMon Nov 01 1993 01:309
    .1,
    
    Yes, and if I change my name to King Joel (tm), I become royalty and
    need to be paid.
    
    I thought that was what the cirle k meant until I saw it on a can of
    motor oil once.
    
    j
2568.230trademark law protects kosher foodCARAFE::GOLDSTEINGlobal Village IdiotMon Nov 01 1993 03:3519
    re:.-several
    
    The circle-K is actually a trademark, as are the circle-U, the
    half-circle-K, and several other symbols which all are used to indicate
    that a given product is kosher.  Since US law does not (thankfully)
    allow the state to mediate what is and is not kosher (this was recently
    fought in New Jersey), several private rabbinical organizations do this
    instead.  They have legal standing because their symbols (it's called a
    hecksher) are trademarks, so anybody misusing them is violating
    trademark law.  To use them, you need the owner's approval, and that
    means that you're kosher by that owner's standards.  If something has a
    simple letter "K" on it, then it is NOT certified kosher; you could put
    this on a bucket of lard and defend it as "rendered at plant K". 
    Nobody who cares about kashrus (the state of being kosher) accepts an
    assertion that lacks a rabbi's name or trademark.
    
    I think "DEC" is a legal trademark, as is the Digital logo (blocks),
    but of course a word meaning, "pertaining to fingers and toes" is just,
    I  suspect, an adjective. 
2568.231GRANMA::MWANNEMACHERthe ???'s kids askMon Nov 01 1993 11:464
    
    
    Saw a Digital kitchen timer over the weekend.  Wonder how long we have
    been making these......
2568.232digressionREGENT::LASKOnormal = ANSI, dim = ASCIIMon Nov 01 1993 13:112
    Hmmm, I've seen the letter K rendered in a circle and within a
    triangle. Are both of these the same mark?
2568.233Some lawyer is going to make a killingDYPSS2::COGHILLSteve Coghill, Luke 14:28Mon Nov 01 1993 13:143
   So, how much is the lawyer--who represents all the Digital xxx...
   companies in the class action suit that's sure to come out of
   this--going to make from it?
2568.234real trademarks and near-tradmarksCARAFE::GOLDSTEINGlobal Village IdiotMon Nov 01 1993 13:1812
    re:.232
    Triangle-K and Circle-K are different heckshers.  Each different group
    who issues them has their own trademark.  Not all have the "K" in them,
    but the people who care about them recognize which is which.  (And if
    you don't recognize it, you probably don't accept it as kosher.)  Thus
    some marks are considered most "reliable".
    
    All this trademark talk reminds me of a bottle of wine I saw selling
    for $2.99 back in '72, called "Chateau Lafitte".  Real French stuff
    too.  Just one letter away from the real thing, and a label design that
    was eerily reminiscent.  I suspect it didn't stay on the market very
    long.
2568.2355 sides to every storyDECC::AMARTINAlan H. MartinMon Nov 01 1993 22:085
>    Hmmm, I've seen the letter K rendered in a circle and within a
>    triangle. Are both of these the same mark?

Yes, and they're both different from a K rendered within an apple.
				/AHM
2568.236RTL::LINDQUISTMon Nov 01 1993 23:299
2568.237WHOS01::BOWERSDave Bowers @WHOTue Nov 02 1993 13:558
2568.238Encore! Encore!TALLIS::PARADISThere's a feature in my soup!Tue Nov 02 1993 14:0817
> Did you obtain Encore's permission to say Encore? 
    
    Actually... I used to work for Encore in a past life.  One day I saw an
    "Encore modem" in a computer store; this product was *not* produced by
    Encore Computer.  Next day I buttonholed our legal counsel at the
    coffeepot and asked him if this wasn't a clearcut case of trademark
    infringement.  His answer: "No, because the word 'encore' is too
    generic to be trademarkable.  The only things we can trademark are our
    logo and any unique product names (e.g. "Multimax")"
    
    I figure the only reason DEC is even *THINKING* of going up against
    the "generic name" issue is that we have enough lawyers to tie this
    up for a good long time... Encore didn't...
    
    --jim
    
    
2568.239CSOADM::ROTHRunning Bear loved little White DoveTue Nov 02 1993 15:2814
Re: Trademarking common words

A few years ago an entrepreneur named Wayne Green saw the coming CD
revolution so he started a magazine called "Digital Audio". Another
magazine, "Audio", filed suit against Wayne Green claiming "Audio" was
their property and his usage constituted misuse of THEIR property.

I don't recall hearing the outcome (maybe it was all a ploy to sink him
with legal fees) but I still think there is a magazine called "Digital
Audio".

Anybody know the specifics of this case?

Lee
2568.240Green Publishing->McGraw-HillREGENT::BLOCHERTue Nov 02 1993 17:347
    I don't know anything about that case, but McGraw-Hill bought Wayne's
    publishing company a few years back and still publishes at least "Byte"
    and "73" magazines. I'm sure McGraw-Hill has enough money/lawyers to
    handle a suit like that, so if they wanted to publish Digital Audio,
    then they probably do so.
    
    Marie
2568.241Digital Audio changed its nameCARAFE::GOLDSTEINGlobal Village IdiotTue Nov 02 1993 17:5716
    re:.239
    Wayne didn't have the resources to fight "Audio" magazine (which I
    think was published by CBS), even though it seemed an easy one, so he
    changed the name of the magazine to "CD Review".  For a transitional
    period, it was "Digital Audio & CD Review" on the cover.  A couple of
    years ago he sold it, though he is still involved in the music and
    publishing industries.
    
    For the record, Wayne started Byte in 1975 but only controlled it for
    three or four issues.  It wasn't in his name and the nominal owner took
    it, selling it later to McGraw-Hill for fair dinkum change.  He started
    "Kilobyte" (get it?) which became "Kilobaud" which became
    "Microcomputing", plus several other computer magazines, which he sold
    to CW Communications (Computerworld, IDG, etc.) in 1986.  Digital Audio
    was not part of that deal.  He did sell "73" but took it back.
       fred (who worked there in '75 when Virginia took Byte)
2568.242PLAYER::BROWNLThe Becket Effect... yes...Wed Nov 03 1993 10:197
    RE: .168,.189 (my own notes)
    
    Any news then? Official word?
    
    Don't be silly.
    
    Laurie.
2568.243(-8 8-)'sCSC32::D_ROYERChi beve birra campa cent'anni.Tue Nov 09 1993 18:009
    Re.. .213 Dave...
    
    If you are born prior to September 1940 I will allow you to use 
    the Trademark for the name, However if not, then I have the use
    of the name by prior usage, and it is then public domain.
    
    Dave...
    
    
2568.244RUSURE::EDPAlways mount a scratch monkey.Tue Jan 18 1994 14:1550
Article 534 of alt.humor.best-of-usenet:
From: dwing@uh01.Colorado.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.humor.best-of-usenet
Subject: [comp.sys.dec] Re: Dec's DIGITAL STORE now on the INTERNET
Organization: best of usenet humor
Lines: 41

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.dectei-l,comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: Dec's DIGITAL STORE now on the INTERNET
From: john@iastate.edu (John Hascall)

In article <940110090542@cavedog.ftp.com> mamros@ftp.com writes:

}>More or less confirmed:    "dec.com" is going away, and is being
}>replaced with "digital.com".    Mostly marketing reasons, as dec
}>wants to known as "digital".  [but they're still 'dec' to me.  :-)   ]
}
}Figures... Wonder how many millions of dollars DEC (oops, sorry, Digital)
}will be spending as thousands of system managers throughout the company
}have to change their systems?  Talk about waste...
}
}Seems that Digital is trying to establish some sort of "brand image" with
}their name.  Well, with moves like this the word "Digital" is indelibly
}linked in my mind with words like "wasteful" and "stupid".  Way to go, Bob.

   I dunno, the almost universally net.decried cheesy "Intel Inside"
   campaign has apparently been a huge success....

   I am imagining a new DEC :) campaign "Digital Downbelow" ...

   [Commercial opens] standard swoop into a computer via the diskette
   orifice.  But this time, instead of a sea of chips, it really *is*
   a *sea* of chips!  "Dive Dive Dive" [we swoop below the surface]
   and there, lurking sinister and just radiating power is the
   AXP Boomer prowling.  [inside now, to the torpedo room] the
   crew is loading "killer apps" into the tubes. "Fire One" *swooosh*
   [periscope view - it's an MVS mainframe battleship in the crosshairs]
   *KaBoom* it breaks into little "rightsized :)" pieces and sinks
   (where little shark-like AlphaPCs eat what's left).

John

--
Postings to alt.humor.best-of-usenet reflect what the submittor considers to be
the best of usenet humor.  All submissions are the responsibility of the sub-
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2568.2453-D SIRD version of the DEC logo-Don't tell Corporate...DPDMAI::WISNIEWSKIADEPT of the Virtual Space.Tue Jan 18 1994 19:101002
Organization: DECUS DFWLUG BBS *Dallas*TX*214-270-3313
Lines: 995
Xref: fallout alt.binaries.pictures.misc:1922 alt.3d:1059

    Here is the 3-D SIRDS (Single Independent Random Dot Stereogram) version 
    of the NEW Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) logo.

    Extract, UUDECODE, and use your favorite GIF viewer...
    
Made it for some hand outs I was working on...

Be seeing you,

+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
| John Wisniewski |         Consultant/DFW DECUS LUG Counterpart           |
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |   Voice:             214-404-6412                      |
| |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| |    UUCP:  wisniewski@fallout.lonestar.org  (DFWLUG BBS)| 
| +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | At Work:  wisniewski@dpdmai.enet.dec.com               |
| Dallas, TX  USA |                                                        |
+-----------------+--------------------------------------------------------+
     You're in a Maze of Twisty Little Unix varients -- All different.


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#`#L*
`
end
    
2568.246Imagine a unique and differentiating ad campaign...NOVA::SWONGERDBS Software Quality EngineeringWed Feb 16 1994 15:4913
	Did anybody else notice the 3M commercial during the Olymics
	broadcast? Throughout the commercial it's
	"Imagine a glue that..."
	"Imagine a plastic so strong that..."
	.
	.
	.
	These things happen because 3M employees imagine.

	Or something like that.

	Roy
2568.247Hey, imagine THIS!STAR::DIPIRROWed Feb 16 1994 16:056
    	Which reminds me...Now that the new branding campaign has been in
    place for some time, the dollars should really be rolling in. Anyone
    know if we've recovered the $1M or so that it cost to change the shapes
    on the dots on the Digital i's?
    	And I can't believe that 3M stole our marketing idea! I would never
    have IMAGINEd that!
2568.248$1,000,000.00 to change the dot ???STAR::ABBASIone of the 744Wed Feb 16 1994 16:4214
                        <<< Note 2568.247 by STAR::DIPIRRO >>>
    >Anyone know if we've recovered the $1M or so that it cost to change the
    >shapes on the dots on the Digital i's?
    
    hi,
    
    did we really spend one million bucks to change the dot from little
    circle to little square (or is it the other way round (bardon the
    buns) ?)  on our i's ?
    
    i find this amazing if we spend that much on this thing?
    
    \bye
    \nasser
2568.249:-)XLIB::SCHAFERMark Schafer, Development AssistanceWed Feb 16 1994 17:043
    >>> 3M stole our marketing idea
    
    maybe that's why we retaliated and stopped buying Post-its
2568.250VANGA::KERRELLThe first word in DECUS is DigitalThu Feb 17 1994 06:3110
2568.251the 'digital difference'SWAMPD::ZIMMERMANNI'm a DECer, not a DECieThu Feb 17 1994 23:508
    Has anyone heard about the adds boosting the 'digital difference'.  I
    haven't seen or heard about them, but I think it was AT&T playing up
    this one.
    
    I wonder if we (Digital) get royalties when other companies use our
    slogans?
    
    Mark
2568.252DRDAN::KALIKOWInfo Highway Construction CrewFri Feb 18 1994 01:055
    While driving in Florida last weekend, I could SWEAR I saw an ad that
    mentioned something how good digital technology was, and it did that
    using the "Imagine" theme.  And no, it wasn't our ad.  Talk about
    generic advertising -- Digital Has It Now!
                                              
2568.253Digtal PC ads in USA TodayTOOHOT::LEEDSFrom VAXinated to AlphaholicFri Feb 18 1994 13:038
In case no-one has seen it, the 2/17 USA Today (second page, 1st
section) has a 2/3 page Digital PC ad. The "slogan" at the bottom is
"Beyond the Box" and is labeled as a "service mark of Digital
Equipment Corporation"..... 

What the heck is a service mark ??? 

Arlan
2568.254MUDHWK::LAWLERMUDHWK(TM)Fri Feb 18 1994 13:1520
    
    
     A Service mark is similar to a trade-mark,  but applies to
    a service,  rather than a concrete product.  (Presumably,  
    "Beyond the box"  implies services that DEC provides, over and
    above the product itself.)
    
      For example,  "Die-hard"  is a trade mark of a battery.
                    "Roto-Rooter" is a a service mark.
    
      I believe telephone services such as "Mobile-reach", "bay-state
    		dialing", "I plan", "the-most" etc.  are all service marks, 
    		rather than trade marks.  
      
      Usually they are denoted by a SM  where the "TM"  would normally
    	be expected...
    
    	    
    
    
2568.255GRANMA::MWANNEMACHERIs it spring yet?Fri Feb 18 1994 13:348
    
    
    RE: servicemark-It just makes me sit here and shake my head.  Albeit
    trivial, why not just use a term that people are familiar with
    (trademark).
    
    
    Mike
2568.256QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centFri Feb 18 1994 13:574
Because it's not a trademark.  "Service mark" is widely used; look carefully
at just about ANY ad that has a tag-line.

				Steve
2568.257Not again!STAR::DIPIRROFri Feb 18 1994 16:415
    	Roto-rooter left more than a "service" mark when they came out to
    my house. Has anyone looked at the dots on the i's on the new Digital
    logo under a magnifying glass or microscope? I realize I'm obsessing on
    this, but I swear they look like little smiley faces! But it might also
    be my pain medication!
2568.258Rubbish to me.PFSVAX::MCELWEEOpponent of OppressionSat Feb 19 1994 03:247
    	So if Service Marks are so important, how are they administered?
    Are there legal protections associated with them? 
    
    	When did they become "real"? I recall noticing their presence in
    advertising only a few years back.
    
    Phil
2568.259QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centSat Feb 19 1994 12:529
    They're not really "administered"; you claim protection to a service
    mark just the way you do with a trade mark, by putting the SM (or TM)
    after the mark in publications.  The idea of the service mark is to
    prevent a competitor from using the same (or too similar) tag line in
    their own advertisements.
    
    I agree that they seem to have become more prominent in recent years.
    
    				Steve
2568.260Imagine if DEC ever followed through on anythingSMAUG::GARRODDCU Board of Director's CandidateSat Feb 19 1994 16:469
    re .-1
    
    Digital seemed to really care about its "Imagine" campaign. But as
    pointed out all sorts of other companies have "Imagine" campaigns too.
    Who owns the concept? If not Digital why did people think it was such a
    big deal? If Digital how come everybody else is allowed to do the same
    thing.
    
    Dave
2568.261Answer to Dave's question in .260DRDAN::KALIKOWInfo Highway Construction CrewSat Feb 19 1994 17:2910
    .260> how come everybody else is allowed to do the same thing?
    
    Simple -- we forgot to establish a Service Mark for Imagination!
    
    "Imagine...   
    
  (Imagination is a Service Mark (SM) of Digital Equipment Corporation, 1994)"
 
                  (-: (Hint:  Try to keep up, Dave!)  :-)
               
2568.262NACAD::SHERMANSteve NETCAD::Sherman DTN 226-6992, LKG2-A/R05 pole AA2Mon Feb 21 1994 15:424
    Our use of the "Imagine" concept is simply an extension of our push to
    demonstrate our support for industry standards ...  ;^)
    
    Steve
2568.263NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Mon Jun 20 1994 12:4330
Posted with permission:

               <<< PEAR::DKB100:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< SOAPBOX.  Just SOAPBOX. >-
================================================================================
Note 1591.0          We're here, we're queer, we have e-mail          42 replies
MSDOA::ZIMMERMAN                                     22 lines  15-JUN-1994 10:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    As if we don't have enough brand identification problems.  From
    a June 14 Raleigh News & Observer article on gay and lesbian
    support groups in North Carolina's high-tech Research Triangle
    Park area:

      "A small band of Silicon Valley techies founded Digital Queers
      two years ago to serve as a networking resource for gays and
      lesbians in the industry.

      " "We're here, we're queer, we have e-mail" proclaims a popular
      T-shirt sold by the organization, which has 500 dues-paying
      members and a mailing list with more that 2,000 names, including
      40 in North Carolina.

      "Many RTPers still wouldn't feel comfortable wearing Digital
      Queers shirts to an office pig-picking. ..."

    The group can be contacted at digiqueers@aol.com.

    - Z
    
2568.264Now were DETROOA::SOLEYPain in the butt CanadianMon Jun 20 1994 13:434
    On an entirely unrelated note I saw a new way of refering to us this
    weekend, WiReD Magazine has a review of some animation software that
    includes the info-bit that the software and one of DE's Alpha
    Workstations can be had for about $33,000. 
2568.265VMSVTP::S_WATTUMOSI Applications Engineering, WestMon Jun 20 1994 13:4711
> DE's Alpha
>    Workstations can be had for about $33,000. 

That's ok then;  the Borland C++ book I picked up the other day has the Alpha
as being a 32 bit processor.  Obviously some company out there called DE
is making a 32 bit Alpha processor.  We should go after them for trademark
infringment.

;-)

--Scott
2568.266AKOCOA::BBARRYIf you can't keep up, take notes!Mon Jun 20 1994 13:497
    > Note 2568.264               Digital's new brand image  
    > TROOA::SOLEY "Pain in the butt Canadian"  
    >                                 -< Now were DE >-
    
    
    		At least we're only half-DEAD!   :-)
                                         --
2568.267Who makes that DECstuff anyway?SPECXN::LEITZbutch leitzMon Jun 27 1994 20:5226
I had to put this in here...

Over this past weekend I was at my wife's employer's regional meeting
& got to talking to another spouse who worked for HP. She had heard I
did something with computers & asked who I worked for, told her that I
worked for Digital, & we proceeded to discuss various facets of new
technologies, etc. At some point, after talking with her about 15 minutes,
I mentioned something about having been at DEC for 10 years & it went
something from there like this:

her:  "DEC? I thought you said you worked for -Digital-???"
 me:  "They're the same thing. Digital Equipment Corporation. DEC."
her:  "You're kidding? We have DEC stuff all over the place.
      "I always hear about HP vs. DEC. Ohhh. You work for -DEC-.
      "Ohhhh.

bystander: "DEC? Yah, we have their stuff all over our office along
      "with a bunch of other junk. Digital, huh? Huh."

At any rate, she's a very intelligent person, currently does joint
work for several HP marketing types, & up until then hadn't even
begun to acquaint "DEC" with "Digital".  They always refer to us
as DEC. 

This cracks me up - this whole brand thing hasn't made ONE dent in 
the world about identifying Digital with DECstuff.
2568.268VANGA::KERRELLHandle with care - aging fastTue Jun 28 1994 07:1010
re.267:

>This cracks me up - this whole brand thing hasn't made ONE dent in 
>the world about identifying Digital with DECstuff.

I'm no statistician (I can't even say it!) but I think you need a larger sample
than one to draw that conclusion. Besides, the aim is to grow awareness of
"Digital" not associate it with "DECstuff"!

Dave.
2568.269Is there a difference?NDLVAX::MTANNERD'ye ken John plunkTue Jun 28 1994 08:3019
    
    RE -1 
    
    Dave,
    
   > Besides, the aim is to grow awareness of
   > "Digital" not associate it with "DECstuff"!
    
    Isn't associating Digital with DECstuff part of that awareness
    campaign?
    
    The problem I see with that 'growing of awareness' is that by that the
    time it has grown sufficiently, digital could have gone the way of the
    dinosaur.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Mark.
    
2568.270VANGA::KERRELLHandle with care - aging fastTue Jun 28 1994 09:405
re.269:

Sorry, I missed off the tongue-firmly-in-cheek symbol.

Dave :^Q
2568.271Food for thought...CTOAVX::SMITHBTue Jun 28 1994 10:526
    I read a buyers survey recently that concluded that people don't buy PC's
    because they say 'Intel Inside'.  All they care about is that it is
    'PC' compatible.
    
    Brad.
    
2568.272Another data pointNOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Tue Jun 28 1994 12:486
I was talking to a doctor friend who has an office in Concord MA.  He's
mentioned in the past that a lot of his patients worked for DEC.  I asked
him if many of his patients who work for Digital had been laid off.  He
said, "Digital?"  I said that he'd told me that a lot of his patients
worked for DEC.  It turns out that he'd had never made the connection
between Digital and DEC.
2568.273multiple definitionsGRANMA::FDEADYTue Jun 28 1994 12:525
    Maybe corporate should hold off a couple of months until they
    know what to "brand" as "Digital." ;)
    
    Fred Deady
    
2568.274FedEx's SolutionNWD002::THOMPSOKRKris with a KTue Jun 28 1994 18:2312
    I saw a news item the other day that Federal Express, in response to
    their customer's habits, changed their name and logo to FedEx.  The new
    logo incorporated both the full name and the slang term.  The 
    announcement said something like, "In recognition of how are customers
    refer to us.."
    
    Made perfectly good sense to me; why are we so stubborn?  Customers
    call us DEC, analysts call us DEC, competitors call us DEC, dentists 
    call us DEC, the press calls us DEC, we call our products and programs
    DECthis and DECthat, yet we want to be known as Digital Equipment?
    
    (Is this stubborn or stupid?) 
2568.275NOTIME::SACKSGerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085Tue Jun 28 1994 18:522
Coca Cola did something similar.  When I was a kid, the bottles just said
"Coca Cola."  Now they say "Coke" too.
2568.276QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centTue Jun 28 1994 20:315
Re: .274

It's both.

	Steve
2568.277everything is "digital" today...TOOHOT::LEEDSFrom VAXinated to AlphaholicTue Jun 28 1994 21:316
We went to a movie the other day - during the "intro", the words 
"Digital Stereo" flashed on the screen.. my 7 year old said "Digital? 
Did you help make this movie ?". Don't know if that's good or bad 
brand recognition.

Arlan
2568.278make it "DEC"SWAM2::ROGERS_DAfeeling _so_ SCSIWed Jun 29 1994 00:4310
    re: -.1
    > ...Don't know if that's good or bad brand recognition.
    
    It's a kiss of death.
    Like "Thermos" or "Asprin", we are at risk of becoming so
    generic that our brand identity will have virtually no 
    value.
    [dale]
    
    
2568.279GUCCI::RWARRENFELTZFollow the Money!Wed Jun 29 1994 10:414
    Got a junk mailer from a local computer discount outfit yesterday and
    was surprised to see our printer, pix and stats, listed next to
    "Complete communications center."  Maybe we're following the HP lead
    and hope our printers will give us that coveted name recognition.
2568.280Call SGI or AT&T to reach "Digital"HPCGRP::BURTONDIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLYWed Jun 29 1994 12:01146
How about this for "Digital" brand confusion.

Jim


AT&T AND SGI WED, GIVE BIRTH TO MULTI-MEDIA VENTURE                June 22
NEWS BRIEFS                                                        HPCwire
=============================================================================

  Mountain View, Calif. -- AT&T and Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) have
solemnized a formal marriage. They simultaneously produced a new 50-50 joint
venture baptised Interactive Digital Solutions (IDS).
  Dan Stanzine of AT&T Switching Systems is to be the chairman of IDS, while
Jim Barton, former SGI vice president for interactive media, will be
president.
  The new venture will be a separate company, located in Silicon Valley, with
post-natal lodgings on the SGI campus here. This site is saturated with
symbolism suitable for a venture in interactive multimedia.
  It is within a few blocks of Mountain View's town dump (soon to be closed
forever) and an open amphitheater used mostly for rock concerts.
  Despite protracted and at times skeptical questioning from reporters in New
York City, Washington, D.C., Denver and Mountain View, Stanzine, Barton, and
SGI chairman and CEO Ed McCracken revealed few corporate facts about IDS.
  They talked only in the broadest terms about the capitalization and
anticipated size of IDS, although it was acknowledged that the efforts of
AT&T and SGI, plus IDS, would constitute the largest single enterprise in the
multimedia/interactive market.
  IDS's timeline was also left vague, although it was said that a serious
impact on revenues would not be expected for a year or two.

NOBODY JILTED
  This is to be a thoroughly modern marriage. They emphasized that the
joint venture format rather than yet another of the loose agreements and
partnerships that abound in the multimedia market is intended to convey a
sense of seriousness and commitment in the midst of "all the hype," as
McCracken put it.
  Despite the exchange of wedding bands, however, AT&T and SGI will both be
free to continue other relationships each has already established in
multimedia, ranging in seriousness from transient handshakes to torrid
affairs.
  This is not surprising, because many of these earlier flirtations are at
least in part the subject of contractual obligations. These cannot lightly
be ignored simply because AT&T and SGI have discovered that they are made for
each other.

MADE IN HEAVEN? PLAUSIBLE
  The SGI and AT&T representatives did their best to make the case that this
is in fact a marriage made in heaven. Their arguments are plausible.
  Marriages, whether corporate or between real humans, survive best if the
newlyweds are well-matched and the link serves enduring interests of both
parties.
  Neither AT&T nor SGI is a small company, although no conceivable suitor
would equal AT&T in size.
  Both are eager to see that relatively new hardware is widely adopted for
a future broadband network and for interactive multimedia. SGI is just
beginning to ship its Power Challenge XL symmetrical shared memory
multiprocessors, which it considers an excellent general-purpose platform
that could act as a media server for video on demand.
  SGI's workstation technology and a wide range of microprocessors from its
subsidiary MIPS, including the powerful new R8000 microprocessor, could serve
in a variety of interactive devices, including set-top point-of-delivery
boxes that would manage the whole complex business for consumers.
  AT&T is anxious to promote its ATM technology, including a new switch.

MOSTLY SOFTWARE
  As described by the AT&T and SGI representatives, however, IDS sounded more
like a software-intensive enterprise. McCracken spoke convincingly of the
lessons learned during the past year or so. SGI has discovered that the
technical requirements of modern multi-media broadband communication are
"enormous," including complications that had not been anticipated.
  A large part of the IDS effort will be devoted to the development of
systems management software and other tools that make it possible for
assorted hardware to work together at the elevated levels of precision
required for the synchronization and high resolution of multi-media.
  This aspect of IDS is apparently to be based primarily on SGI experience,
including the 4000-home experiment in Orlando, Fla., being carried out in
conjunction with Time-Warner.
  AT&T will, however, also share results obtained from home-delivery
experiments in California carried out with cableista Viacom and other
partners.
  The kickoff of the Orlando project was delayed from this summer to the end
of 1994, primarily due to software shortcomings. Asked about reports that
point-of-delivery set-top video managers used in Orlando are priced at $5000
each, McCracken said that this simply implied that by the large-scale
rollout target date of 1996 or 1997, the advance of technology would permit
reduction of prices to the $300 level that is considered the margin of
customer tolerance.
  When pressed for reasons why the SGI-AT&T nuptials are more significant
than the casual relationships prevalent in the multimedia set, Stanzine
noted that AT&T has historically developed all of its technology within the
company. A joint venture in which AT&T will be sharing on a basis of
equality technology developed in another company is an important new
departure, he said.

MARKETING
  Both companies also bring marketing strengths to IDS. AT&T is a major
supplier to service providers (regional telephone companies, cable
companies, etc.) around the world.
  SGI has an acknowledged world lead in visualization hardware and software.
In addition, the company has long supplied hardware and support to "content
providers" (interactivespeech for showbiz) for special effects and other
purposes.
  Finally, while AT&T has traditionally developed its own software in-house,
SGI has extensive experience working with third-party applications
developers in many fields.
  The two companies' representatives said that during its initial year, IDS
would concentrate primarily upon contacts with service providers as well as
discussions with developers of third-party content and applications. Thus,
initially, IDS's concentration would exploit the distinctive strengths of its
two parents.
  Asked whether these efforts would be concentrated upon ports to SGI
platforms, McCracken noted that open standards do not yet exist in this
field. Work will begin with emphasis upon selected platforms and will then
be extended as much as possible as standards arise and open systems become
possible.
  A tender AT&T button was pushed by one questioner, who asked why AT&T had
turned to an outside computer company rather than to NCR (now AT&T Global
Information Systems), which was acquired by AT&T at considerable cost and
trouble a few years ago.
  Stanzine explained the AT&TGIS has fixed its sights on six clearly-defined
market concentrations and does not want to be distracted.

FAMILY VALUES
  In discussing joint ventures of this kind (IBM's recent stormy
collaborations with Apple come to mind), financial analysts and other
fortune-tellers frequently raise the issue of presumably incompatible
corporate cultures.
  The grounds for speculation about IDS are obvious. SGI, like its Silicon
Valley neighbors Apple and Tandem (but unlike Hewlett-Packard), has always
cultivated a cool, with-it image.
  Like so many other Valley firms, SGI spun itself off from Stanford
University. Its model was, however, the notoriously iconoclastic Stanford
Band rather than the Stanford Business School.
  AT&T has always maintained a two-faced image of technological innovation
combined with corporate caution and conservatism.
  Despite its collegiate exterior, however, SGI has a long history of
delivering on tough, often risky technological and marketing commitments.
  Every year or so, SGI seems to take on some new challenge (like absorbing
the MIPS microprocessor business), and observers predict confidently that
this time the company management has over-reached itself. Most of these
predictions have been proven wrong.
  Both companies know a lot about two practical things: technology and money.
These shared family values could override any clash of corporate cultures.
  Meanwhile, these two new partners might be able to jointly wield sufficient
influence to bring some order and direction to the confused world of
interactive multimedia.
2568.281OTOOA::PONDWed Jun 29 1994 16:513
    Don't you think though that there are the same perception problems with
    "HP" and "Hewlett-Packard"?
    J
2568.282BSS::C_BOUTCHERWed Jun 29 1994 20:223
    NO ...
    
    Chuck
2568.283Seiko Unit To Sell IBM PCs Made By Digital Equip Of JapanSPECXN::WITHERSBob WithersWed Nov 09 1994 15:2714
I'd say our image campaign is being successful.  Witness what DJNS reported
this morning:

    Seiko - IBM PCs -2-: Might Be Blow To NEC Corp. >IBM D

    DJ   11/9/94 6:50 AM

    TOKYO -DJ- Seiko Epson Corp., a Japanese electronics maker known for
    its printers, will market International Business Machines Corp. (IBM)
    compatible personal computers made by Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC)
    Japan under an original equipment manufacture arrangement.

There's more, but I thought the wording was interesting...
BobW