Conference 7.286::digital

    I'm doing  just  fine  thank you, I'll be turning in the badge after 19
    1/2 years, and I must admit it's a relief.
    
    God bless the survivors and those that have been or about to be TFSO'd.
    
    Hope we all have a happy and rewarding family holiday season.
    
    Claude

    
    
    Re: .0
    Thanks, John, for asking this question.  It is certainly appropriate
    and thoughtful.  For the last few days you could cut the tension around
    here with a knife. These times are sad and and there are lots of
    unhappy faces both among those who have been told they are at risk and
    those who have been told they are not.  It is important that we
    acknowledge this and talk to each other.  Unexpressed feelings from
    times like this have a way of hanging on and preventing us from moving
    on in whatever way we need to.
    
    So for the stoics out there in particular,  if you are hurting over
    all this, tell someone and talk about it.  You don't need to suffer
    alone and in silence.  This is everyone's burden and we should help
    each other bear it.
    
    Steve
    

    .0

    >	So tell me? How are you holding up? And how are you dealing with
    >	the stress? 


    ok, i tell a little.

    i see more doubles now, sometimes i flip over when my feets cross, much
    more than before, and you are right, i do get up in the middle of the 
    night too, i find taking vitamin C in large amounts helps, also vitamin A 
    complex is good too for the nervous systems, my hand seems to shake much
    more now , the vibrations sometimes reach my neck and i fall .

    if the mail is from my Boss, i dont read it. and i dont open any
    pink envelops in my mail slot. i dont exercise by definition but
    find that eating less fatty food reduce you anxiety levels, and taking
    caffeine helps too. i also find that i have much more little white hair
    on my head that before, i dont know if there is a connections.

    i also lose things much more now, and i keep forgetting where i parked 
    my car, and i forget my password more than before, i also find i get
    screamed at more nowadays and sometimes i snack and i scream back too,
    i also find iam putting more weight now, and i eat more cookies than
    before , i read that is what people do to help them but it is done
    in non consciously, that is why they gain weights.


    well, these are few things, hope this helps.

    /nasser

...which of these things do you do?...
All of the above, except for the three drinks...

I go through cycles of panic/denial(it won't hit me)/planning (OK, what will I
do when...)

I am beginning to believe that the only rational response is to assume that you
WILL be layed off (sooner or later), and act accordingly.  Don't wait until
December 7 to start looking.  You may want to wait on accepting a job to see if
you get the package, but by all means, GET YOUR RESUME OUT ON THE STREET.

You don't have to accept a job offer, but think about it:
If you just interviewed for an outside job, and they offered it to you,, how
would you feel about the possibility of being layed off?

If you haven't a clue other than rumors as to the real job market for you, how
would you feel about the possibility of being layed off?

I don't want to leave Digital, but I must be prepared to support my family
whatever happens.

Kevin Farlee

    
    Does anyone have any information on Ma. unemployment pay rules and
    regulations, how you apply, how much you get etc. etc.
    
    It seems that the brass knuckle package is 100% deficient in this area,
    and i think  it is information that would be of the utmost importance
    to people who are having their livelyhoods taken from them
    
    Barry
                                                             

    
    
    OK, You want to know how I am holding up.
    
    
    Well everything listed--except for drinking and exercise--is true for
    me.  Tension at work is like a thick London fog.  There is an
    exception; however, as the fog in London lifts--the Digital TSFO fog
    does not.  People are short on temper, sharp to backstab co-workers,
    and fanaticly trying to get on the boat with the ones in power.  It is
    a dreadful state of affairs to see happening.  
    
    There are times that for no reason or trigger mechanism at all; I
    suddenly become sad or emotionally drained.  I sometimes feel depressed
    to the point that I cannot seem to do anything at all.  When this
    happens I have to push myself to get going again.  I wake up at all
    hours of the night, have frequent dreams, and generally feel like I
    have no control.  I have been working on my resume and intend to start
    sending it out again. 
    
    I have come to the point were I think I would be relieved if I was
    tapped.  At least it would be over.  I would then just have to find
    another job--a task that takes some work and time in the current
    economic climate.  All in all with the TFSO and some time off I might
    just feel better about myself.
    
    Ken
    

    In response to .6's note, Our plant in Spo is slated to close soon and
    it was a relief to find out for sure that the plant is closing. The
    rumors that were flying around for the last year or so about the
    possibility of the plant closing was enough to make your life that much
    more stressfull (and who needs more stress these days). My last 2 years
    in DEC have not been the best working enviroment to be in and now at
    least I can do some planning in regards to my future instead of the
    should I or shouldn't I scenerio that I was living. Granted finding a
    new job won't be easy but it is not impossible. The hardest thing now
    that I find is staying positive and not sinking into a hole because
    there is no middle ground. Exercise helps alot (more than drowning
    your sorrows does), but a cold beer after a vigorious workout can
    take the edge off. 

    
    
          To be honest, I dont see any threat (yet, today, this
    minute :') to my job, but with all the bombs going off around me, 
    shrinking TFSO, low morale, no managers/veeps getting whacked etc. 
    ..........sorry but i feel like jumping ship. 
    
    For PMS (PreMcPackage Massacre Stress) relief I spar pro boxers and
                      put Buds down the hatch!
                               

    EVERYONE should be circulating their resume NOW - be PROACTIVE and not
    REACTIVE - don't wait for something to happen TO you but make it happen
    FOR you.  Granted, none of us want to lose our jobs but regardless of
    what we WANT, fact is that DIGITAL has publicly said that they were
    going to layoff approximately 5000 people per quarter through DEC 1993.
    
    What do you do?  Talk to people who have left.  Digital gives
    out-placement services for approximately 6 months.  Get the list of
    recruiters that the out-placement services hand out and start
    contacting them by phone.  Do a mass mailing of your resume and then
    follow up with a personal phone call in 7 days.  Remember too that
    there are about 300 - 500 resumes received for an ad in the paper
    today.  So, it might be best to work with a recruiter - no cost to you
    either.  
    
    Take time to evaluate your SKILLS and list them on the resume.  Think
    about what you really want to do.  Evaluate if you even want to stay in
    the computer field or do you have skills that are transferable to other
    areas.  
    
    Spend time with your FAMILY.  It is also said to be a good idea to take
    a short vacation - to re-evalute what is really important to you in
    life.  
    
    BY ALL MEANS you must be PROACTIVE now and don't wait and be REACTIVE. 
    That is the best advice I can give anyone.  Good luck.  We all need it

    
    
    	Re: .8 TFH::CRUE
    
    	The scary thing about his stress reduction program (sparring 
    	Pro Boxers) is that he's good at it. Kids gone:')
    
    							-Dave
    

    you really dont need fancy programs to do it, i read somewhere about 
    exorcises you can do right in the privacy of your own cube in front of your 
    terminal or workstation to reduce the stress level, you hold your arms 
    high , open your fingers, and left your feets off the ground and rotate 
    your head to each sides, all while exhaling very deep for 60 seconds, 
    repeat this 20 times per day, or when ever you feel the stress is 
    starting to go up. 

    there are many more like this one. please check with your local
    wiliness centers for details.

    and please most of all make sure your heart is working before you do 
    anything , or check with your family doctors to get the go ahead first.

    /nasser
    

    Nasser, if your heart wasn't working, you wouldn't be exercising, or
    even moving.

    In answer to .0, badly.  I'm drinking more. I'm running more. There is
    additional friction in my home and workplace.
    
    When redundancies in my group were first mooted in June, I was amongst
    those that expected to go, since my group has transitioned from being
    technical (at least sometimes) to paper-pushers. [CSSE -> SPE ->
    DPSE&SD]. 
    
    My skills are now a total mismatch. I'm a VMS / DECnet / ULTRIX / DOS
    / "many programming languages" guy and being asked to do market
    research into a methodology for delivering a best-in-class service
    process plan was/is beyond my self-abuse quotient.
    
    So, here I am, 5 months later, still waiting to find out, with a the UK
    package due to change downwards considerably on December 6.
    
    My manager agrees I should be let go, my Personnel rep agrees I should
    be let go - hell, *I* agree I should be let go as I can't find a hiring
    group in DEC. So what's the holdup? A man in the USA has to say yes.
    This should happen this week, in which case goodbye, but then, that's
    been my expectation  for months now.
    
    
    Good luck.
    

	Well, since we don't actually KNOW anything, but hear
	rumors of carnage daily, the stress is considerable.

	But there's a great strain-reliever that's just moved to
	town ( Colorado Springs ) and you wouldn't believe the
	safety valve it provides for DEC folks here.

	When MCI announced it was moving to this area, folks
	discussed it quietly, in small groups.

	Now that the layoffs are hitting the Center and other groups in
	town, folks are talking about resumes, interviews, job
	prospects, openings, etc. right in the hallways, at lunch,
	in front of managers !

	As MCI plans to have ~ 3500 programmers employed in Colorado
	Springs in the next coupla years, many folks here feel they
	have a chance to go somewhere if the boom is lowered.

	The common sentiment is that "there will be wind blowing
	through the aisles at the CSC" given the treatment most folks
	have gotten here over the years, and the TFSO program's
	progress.

	I feel for the folks back east who live in an area with perhaps
	fewer opportunities and  less growth.

	Steve H

re .0
>        So tell me? How are you holding up? And how are you dealing with
>        the stress? Do you:
...
Basically, all of the above, and then some. This ordeal of anxiety and
insecurity has stolen many opportunities of feeling good or happy about
something, because of the ever present, subconscious knowledge that my
family's wellbeing can be destroyed with the next roll of the dice.

/Bob

        The attached is posted at the request of the author, who wishes to
        be remain anonymous.  I share some of the author's feelings.  This
        is NOT a comfortable time at Digital, and it's a shame, because we
        have some of the best people in the world working here.
        
        Tom

    
    My sleep patterns are erratic.  I'm tired by 8:00pm but that's too early
    to go to bed.  By 10:00pm I'm wide awake.  Go to bed around 10:30pm and
    I wake around 1:00am.  Can't get back to sleep until 2:00am.  Up at
    6:30am, tired and more often than not, I'm cranky.
    
    Little things my son does bother me more than they should.  I don't
    enjoy eating as much as I used to.  I'm smoking cigs more often but not
    finishing them.  No extra drinking although once a week I like to have
    a few.  If I wasn't married or didn't own a house, I'd probably be
    drinking much more.
    
    Last week around 3:00pm I found a note on my desk from my boss.  She'd
    like to see me as soon as I return to my desk.  I just knew I was going
    to get the word.  Very anxiously I went to her office only to discuss a
    project related issue.  My heart was racing at what seemed like 200bpm.  
    
    I've had several project ideas shot down because of political/turf
    issues.  I've been criticized for not following what's old, tried and
    true.  I've pushed to be allowed to move into new areas using new
    techniques only to be told to back off.  
    
    Am I stressed? Big time.  Do I expect to get sent home for good?  Yes. 
    If performance is the main yardstick, then I have a good shot at
    sticking around.  If politics is a critical factor then I'm a dead man.
    
    Lovely isn't it?

    Let me say that the morale issues are much easier here where the entire
    facility is being closed down.  A couple of factors: 
    
    1) We're all in the same boat, managers and individual contributors. 
    
    2) We've had plenty of time to internalize and prepare. 
    
    3) We've been given a very generous separation package.
    
    4) Those who are 50+ get the equivalent of SERP as well.
    
    I haven't seen anyone having severe negative feelings for six months,
    now.  We all laugh about the situation (for ourselves) but there is
    some sadness as we watch the company stumble through these times.
    
    Dick

    How I cope with job concerns.
    
    I think about when I was in the Air Force '62 - '66. I really worried
    about being shipped to Viet Nam. Worried about friends (& brother) who
    went and whether they would come back. Some didn't.
    
    Then I think, this is just a job. I was looking for a job when I found
    this one. I can do it again.
    
    I do everything I can to keep the job, look for extra things to do that
    add value.
    
    Keep an eye on the help wanted, resume updated, and try to make outside
    contacts.
    
    I live by an old motto "Misery is optional".  You either accept your
    fate or do something about it. Continual worry does nothing to help.
    
    - John

    	Last July, I was told by the then acting manager that I was 1 of 5
    people on the risk list, even though (so I heard) that  no one was suppose 
    to find out ahead of time. 4 of those people were TFSO'd. I didn't sleep 
    well for 2 months. I thought about it alot. Am I next? Why was I left?
    Since then, the manager has changed and he's not talking. 
    
    	I'm at the point now, that I don't care anymore. My loyalty and
    trust are damaged. I just want to get it over with one way or another. 
    There are more important things to worry about!

    
    
    
         Regarding .0 - All of the  above except drinking. I find myself
    jumping at the kids and then feeling guilty because they didn't do 
    anything. I'm tired, because I wake up a lot in the middle of the
    night. I'm running more often and further distinces (actually this is
    goodness.) It has certainly been a frustrating 15 months within DEC.
    It's nice to see that I'm not alone.
    
         I recently redid my resume, took about 3 weeks and did a "top
    notch" job on it. Have sent it out to a few "head hunters" to get
    feelers out. 
    
         What I find really stupid (I can't think of any other word that
    fits.) is that the leaders of this company have said, "The cuts will
    continue until we become profitable again." First of all, how do you
    become profitable when everyone is focusing on there own well being
    and business is a very distant second. (Well being can be anything from
    drinking to excess to working on your resume, to actually calling on
    job opportunities on "DECs time"). And second, there's no one who can
    garentee that once we get back to showing a profit, that the cuts will
    stop. History shows that once companies get into this type of "action",
    they continue anytime there's a "blip" in the system. 
    
        I guess the only thing to do is to take charge of what you can, 
    and be prepared in case the ax does fall. 
    
    
                                           Phil...

    I'm not drinking, but I'm very much worse off than I was just 3 months
    ago...maybe I should start drinking!

    SNARF!

       
       
       RE: .0
       
       Yep, I'm stressed out. But not as stressed out as I was in August.
       Why? Because I've had time to deal with it when [if] it comes. 
       
       My resume has been updated for the past 2 months. I've got a game 
       plan for when [if] it happens.
       
       I'm not drinking more often, but I have caught myself drinking more 
       (after waking up because I can hear someone speaking 2 miles away, 
       and it sounds like they're screaming in my ear. :-) :-))
       
       My patience with people has dropped considerably.
       
       Just as an aside, as much as I'd hate to leave DEC, when [if] it
       happens, I won't be too upset. Why? Because the company I now
       work for isn't the same company I joined almost 7 years ago. Back
       then it was *FUN* to come to work, it was *FUN* to try new things.
       Today, it's almost a chore to come to work, and when it comes to
       trying new things, well, let's just say that it's now easier to 
       ask permission than forgivness.
       
       I can say that when [if] it happens, I'll always be a DEC salesman.
       I still think this is one of the greatest companies around. I still
       think that the employees can help turn things around, once management
       starts listening to the people in the trenches (again).
       
       I'll get off my soapbox now. :-) ;-)
       
       
       				->Jay
       

    Excellent question for these times of uncertainty.  I reached a
    milestone about a month ago.  Up to then the stresses were taking their
    toll, of not knowing when and if I would be out on the street, dumped after 11 years of
    mucho company loyalty and a lot of hard work, missed weekends and
    holidays, and very long work days, the feeling of what I had worked
    and sweated for going away in a puff of smoke.  Plus the worst part of
    it all was the possibility that DEC DOESN'T NEED ME ANYMORE so I
    will be dumped on the trash heap with the rest of the garbage. 
    Perhaps there are stages that people go through in dealing with any
    long term stressor.   But as I said earlier about a month ago I
    realized that maybe there wasn't room in my world for digital either.
    Some of my thoughts are, digital will be unstable for years to come and
    where is the career growth, the personal growth that we all need to 
    experience.  Right now I haven't had a raise in almost 5 years and
    digital seems determined to plead poverty for the next 5 years so where
    is the monetary growth, the prosperity factor.  The answer is loud and
    clear and suprisingly sweet, "THERE ISN'T ANY" for me and many of my
    peers in field service. So now I'm looking forward to building  career
    changes and excitement with another company(ies).  Same field maybe.  
    Doing what I like and having the same love affair with my career that I
    once had when working for digital.  DEFINITELY.  Its like ending a
    overly long and currently destructive relationship. Difficult to bring 
    to an end but once it ends everyone wonders why they waited so long
    and everyone looks forward with anticipation to the next one.
    
    It takes time to move on, as one person said ' figure one month for each 
    ten thousand dollars of annual salary that you are looking for' so
    that means looking for the next several months.  But I'm focussed past the
    short term with Digital into the long term and while I contribute and do my
    job for Digital today, I'm building plans for my future and there just isn't
    any room for digital in it.   
                                                                 

    I thought I had been doing a pretty good job of detaching from the
    stress in the environment; this last February my body told me other-
    wise.
    
    I've found for me, although it would be *nice* to be optimistic; if
    I'm to function at all I must be pragmatic and focus on being *real-
    istic*.  If/when it hits I know it will hurt, eventually I'll get
    over it.  I have a friend who does grief counseling and she has
    helped a lot <--- I know this might sound strange to some, but some
    of the techniques she uses have helped me.
    
    Karen
    
    PS:
    Truth be known, one of the *best* remedies for the stress is reading
    some of Nasser's witty, tongue-in-check entries.
    
      

    Ooops, make that tongue-in-cheek!
    
    Karen_who_forgot_to_spell_check :-}
    

    Re: .0
    
    Stress?!?  Around here?  No sweat, I've got it covered!  I am a single
    mom, with a mortgage, car payment, bills, living from paycheque to
    paycheque, unable to keep much more than a coupla hundred dollars in my
    savings account, but I'm not stressed.
     
    I take anti-depressants, and an anti-spasmodic for colitis, but,
    I'm not stressed.  
    
    Lost my son's Scoutmaster and my best girlfriend within a couple of months 
    of each other to the TFSO, but I'm not stressed.  Have night after night 
    of vivid dreams, involving people and situations from work, but I am not 
    stressed.
    
    There are days I go home, and quietly tell my wonderful teenaged son,
    my only child, that I just need some "space", to gather myself
    together, so that I DON'T take it out on him, but I am not stressed.
    
    I think that I might be okay, I am simply a Business Support grunt
    working in a very small group that generates big bucks for company,
    but, then the nightmare goes, what if my boss gets "axed", being one of
    those middle management types...
    
    Don't smoke, and drink very little, can't handle those hangovers, and
    exercise?  Try flop on the easy chair, totally fagged out, with my
    snoot in the newspaper, and all of its good news, and find myself ready
    for bed by 7 or 8p, because I am emotionally exhausted.
    
    Nope, no stress here at all!
    
    But, gotta keep plugging, gotta keep smiling, gotta try and keep giving
    thanks for the blessings in my life.
    
    Are we having fun yet?
    
    /M

    stress? STRESS  S T R E S S ...???!!!!!
    
    Insomnia has become a way of life!
    	/john

    For those of you who are dealing with stress, maybe the following diet
    would help.  It helped with the last item.
    
             Breakfast
    
    1/2 Grapefruit
    1 piece whole wheat toast
    8 oz. skim milk
    
             Lunch
    
    4 oz. lean broiled chicken breast
    1 cup steamed zucchini
    1 Oreo cookie
    Herb tea
    
             Mid-afternoon Snack
    
    rest of the package of Oreo cookies
    1 quart of Rocky Road ice cream
    1 jar of hot fudge
    
             Dinner
    
    2 loaves garlic bread
    Large mushroom and pepperoni pizza
    1 six-pack of JOLT
    3 Milky Way candy bars
    Entire frozen cheesecake, eaten directly from freezer
    
    
    Gotta keep smilin', no matter what comes along.  A year ago I lost a
    brother to suicide.  The possibility of me losing my job seems rather
    trivial compared to that.
    
    tgc

    .-1

    I think these stress diets you put should be immediately send to all the
    cooks in every DEC cafeterias so that they can cook them for us to eat 
    them here at work too.
    
    /nasser

    re.> 2222.17
     4) Those who are 50+ get the equivalent of serp as well.
    
    Could you please explain? Thanks.
    
    smitty sends
    
    

    All of the above and much more.
    
    Also, as a secretary without a group and about to be told any minute
    now that she dosn't have ajob any more, I lose my job but don't get
    the dubious comfort of a package.  I have been told I will be put
    into a some sort of pool and assigned as needed.  Of course I get to
    stay, without a real job, or leave the company, without a package
    
    Take comfort folks, you see it could be worse.

    I wonder if there is a way that we can enjoy stress instead of it
    taking its toll ??
    

     "So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am
      your God.  I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you
      with my righteous right hand."

                                             - Isaiah 41:10

How do I hold up?  I'm upheld.

No, I'm NOT naive.  I've gone through 8 layoffs in various companies in
13 years of computer and aerospace employment.

I was unemployed and underemployed for 3 years while job after job
evaporated underneath me.

We lost our house, credit rating, sold about everything we own.  Our $65,000
in savings was decimated in the October '87 stock market crash.

Since this was in the late 80's, people weren't supposed to have problems,
so friends and family got mad at us for having troubles.  They left.

BUT...

I really lost nothing of value, and gained immensely in maturity and
growth.

Am I nervous or anxious over this layoff?  You bet!  Is my resume in shape?
NO DOUBT.

But there is a promise that I was forced to test.  The man who leans alone
on God is UPHELD.

I will lean on that promise again, and again be upheld.  It's the only REAL
hope and "holding up" I know.

Dave Nichols

    
    .34 Dave:
    
    Thanks for the excellent note and encouragement.
    
    Ron

    I have mixed emotions on this subject. My whole group(10 of us) will be
    gone on or before DEC 7th. On the positive side, we all know and we
    don't take it personlly. I think we are going thru the "Why me. denil,
    angry stages well. We all still have a sence of humor, more or less.
    Alot of unknowns about the future. Alot of "what do I want to do when I
    grow up" discussions.
    I feel a bit angry at times toward the management. How could they be in
    their positions and let the company end up like it is and sitll be in
    control. 
    I feel vulunerable right now. Making decisions on my career with the
    economy the way it is can lead you away from your precieved destiny.
    Maybe thats good, I think at times that I should really take advantage
    of the situation and I want to but its very hard with all that is going
    on to stay focused, but it will happen.
    My family is very supportive and positive so I don't see an issue
    there.I think the issues are in my mind, and only I can deal and except
    them. 
    One of the most painfull things that I have to deal with is the friends
    that I work with, not interacting with them daily. That will be a great
    personel loss to me more even then my job. Yes I know they will be
    there when I need them but it wont be the same, it will never be the
    same.
    Am I stressed? Not really, just pensive. I sleep well, Don't drink much,
    don't lose my temper, just thinking more about life and putting things
    more into perspective.
    
    Good luck to all
    
    George
    

    re .31
    
    Smitty,
    
    Ordinary early retirement is at age 55.  The Special Early Retirement
    Program (SERP) let digits in the US retire at age 50 with additional
    benefits.  Those of us (including me) here in Puerto Rico have a
    similar benefit along with the separation benefit that we all get when
    the plants close.
    
    Dick

    Our group has become proactive with our destiny.  We brainstormed many
    areas of anxiety and need.  We are having "brown bags" several times a
    week on several topics; support, health care after DEC $$, starting
    your own business, resume writing, interviewing skills etc.  
    
    Different people are covering different areas to ferret out info and
    bring it back to the group.  It feels a lot better to be getting
    answers to the inevidible than waiting until you're faced with a
    decision and have to make an "informed choice" about something under
    enough stress to split a battleship!
    
    Personally.... I joined Weight Watchers.  I figured my weight was *one*
    thing I could control (I hope!)  I'm trying to keep my sense of humor. 
    My dad has liver cancer and I figure if he can put up with all the
    chemo, etc. that accompanies his illness and keep the positive attitude
    he has.... it ought to be easy to just "lose a job"
    
    I have a child and a home and lots of mortgages and car payments and,
    bless his soul, my husband owns a real estate office that's struggling
    too.   We do have our health, and we can still laugh...  guess that's
    not too bad!
    
    "A smile is a frown turned upside down... so if you MUST frown.. the
    least you can do is stand on your head!"  

I think that the basic problem in DEC is that the environment until about
2 years ago was very comfortable.  This company was growing, jobs were 
reasonably secure, free and mostly unobstructed use of company facilities
and no one ever got laid off.   This led to personal sacrifice on the part 
of employees to the company when times neccessitated them (stay till 1 
in the morning to do a release, come in 3 weekends in a row to get 
something done).  People worked so much with each other that DEC had one
of the highest marriage AND divorce rates among employees (that is, marrying
and divorcing other DEC people).

This environment can be called JOB=LIFESTYLE.  The friends you are closest
to are in your group.  The people with whom you have the most in common are
at work.  You use your PC/Workstation/VT100 to type letters.  You meet people
via ski clubs and notesfiles.  I've worked for DEC for about 8 years now.
the first three as a CO-OP and then 5 full time.  The one thing that I can
attribute to keeping my sanity is that when I leave at the end of the day,
I leave my JOB and enjoy my LIFESTYLE with other people.  Luckily for me,
Boston has a reasonably large Armenian community, and I'm involved mildly
in church activities.   But when I am active with other things, DEC is only
related to what is in my wallet.   

If I lose my job, I will be financially devastated.  However, I have a 
psychological support network outside of here that will pick me up,
dust me off, kick me in the rear, and say "get a job, any job, and support
your family...so what if you are trained to write embedded software...you
were also trained as a manager at McDonalds in High School, and you also
worked various jobs in college to make ends meet.  You are a survivor, and
most of your life is ahead of you"

That is how I deal with it.   Sprinkle that with healthy dose of prayer
to give thanks for all the good that has happened so far, and ask for 
strength to see through the tough times.  And regardless of whether you 
lose your job and get another one, or if you keep your job in the present
poor morale environment, get involved with things outside of work...Go to
your house of worship (or find one) and get involved.  or find a non-computer
hobby.  or do some charity work.   or spend time with your 
kids/husband/wife/family/etc...

I'll get off my pulpit now...

Armen

    
    
    	            Will the last one out of DIGITAL
    
    		      PLEASE SHUT OFF THE LIGHTS!!

    re .-1
    
    Nawwww, stay on your pulpit, you're doing just fine!
    
    	Armen and amen; they kinda go together!
    
    		:-)
    

    RE: .41
    
    Are you the same Ron Francey who worked for Datatrol in 1979?
    
    

    .40
    
    If the last person has to leave Digital, I would suspect that the Gas
    Company would have already turned out the lights for us. :-)

    re .42
    
    Yup!  Those were the days!
    
    Imagine working with 4 pdp8's for SAKS being charged to keep their 30
    stores up and running for credit authorization and doing maintenance
    of crashing overloaded software without anybody knowing or having
    availability of source code!  What a nightmare - but what fun!
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: and Pat "Chartrand" sits kitty corner from me a few feet away.

    I'm one of those who has no idea whether I'll still be around after 7
    December.  I will tell you that my morale is not low.  I've been
    through this stuff before, 10 years ago at Data General.  I guess I'm
    an expert at "downsizing", even though I left DG of my own voilition,
    not laid off.  I'm working harder than ever before, which says
    something since I don't get paid for OT even though I'm a WC3.  I am
    waiving all OT that I work (which is substantial) so we can meet our
    expense budget and also because I believe in DEC and want to do my part
    to save money.  So if I get a pink slip in two weeks, at least I can
    say I did my part to try and save a sinking ship (for if we don't
    continue to work on controlling expenses, that's exactly what DEC will
    be).
    
    I feel so much for those people who will be laid off, for those who
    already are gone, and for those frantically searching for a job within
    DEC with all reqs. frozen and given 7-30 days to find something or get
    out.  I don't think DEC handled these things very well, but how easy is
    it for a company this size to handle anything well at this point? 
    Reporting is so fuzzy now it is almost impossible to do business within
    DEC.  That's probably something that is my biggest gripe through all
    these changes.  When I first moved to DC from Boston, I knew everyone
    and every line/function/ all the managers, who did what, etc.  Now I'm
    lucky if I know the managers my manager supports.  I haven't even met
    my manager's manager yet!  As for the line, there are so many
    functional changes and so many name changes -- EIS, SWS, CS, FS, etc. I
    don't know what to call what anymore!
    
    How does one go about becoming a VP?  It seems like there is a VP for
    EVERYTHING.  If you saw 60 minutes Sunday, Andy Rooney gave this really
    hard-hitting monologue about the executive office staff reporting and
    titles and the like.  I equate our VP situation with his monologue.  It
    seems like if there is an upper level manager out there with no real
    job title, they give him the title VP of SOMETHING.  I've seen so many
    managers who make beaucoup bucks who went from managers to IC's and had
    nice little titles made up for them (ie: transition XXX, XXX analyst,
    etc.) as IC's just so they won't get laid off with the rest of the
    low-paid peons.
    
    Well, this is what I have observed and I guess this isn't going to
    change anytime soon.  Like the government, no matter what Bill Clinton
    does, you can't undo many years of screwups.  Bob Palmer faces the
    exact same challenge.  Maybe they should get together and trade
    notes!!!!
    
    All my best to those of you who are going or searching before the end
    comes ...
    
    Tammi 

re: .43 
>> If the last person has to leave Digital, I would suspect that the Gas
>> Company would have already turned out the lights for us. :-)

Come on, you know that DEC upgraded to electric lights a few years ago.
Right about the same time we got rid of the outhouses.

8*)

       Well, the Mill seems like a morgue this week. Most people seem
       to be avoiding eye contact unless they have no other choice. People
       don't seem to be motivated at all.

       We've got to get this over with, so we can go on with our lives
       and our jobs.

       		->Jay_who's_being_pessimistic_today

>           <<< HUMANE::DISK$DIGITAL:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
>                          -< The DEC way of working >-
>================================================================================
>Note 2222.42                 How are you holding up?                    42 of 47
>ROYALT::JOYP                                          5 lines  17-NOV-1992 12:51
>                                 -< Datatrol? >-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    RE: .41
>    
>    Are you the same Ron Francey who worked for Datatrol in 1979?


I worked there '72 thru '74. Been here since 8*(
    
    Also, Pat Chartrand was our receptionest in those days. She even bought
    a car from me, Dodge convertible, she she promptly used to rear-end
    a stopped school bus 8*) Tell her I said "HI"
    
    How am I doing ( as the base note asked)? Doing OK. Have no definite
    idea for longevity at DEC but been here since '74.
    Coping skills: I have the same support system as Dave Nichols a few
    back. 
    "HE is my strength and my refuge". Folks, we have no other. GOD is 
    constant.
    
    Keep on keeping-on, y'all
    
    Mike another_former_Data-trol

Gad...

I was doing a lot better when my connection to notes was down for the last few
weeks...

It's amazing how much more comfortable it is in the dark...  Kinda like when
Desert Storm was going on...  Being in a guard unit where Uncle was cherry
pickin' folks with specific skills...  Yeah, I made sure my insurance was up
to date, but then I turned off the news and dropped the paper.  Figured
they had my phone number if they wanted me...

Same principle with layoff's....  Keep your resume up, but turn off the 
rumor mill and as a wise man once said, "reject all negative input"...
If they want you, they'll find you soon enough anyway...

Has done wonders for my stress level and allows me to concentrate on 
performance whilst the bullets are flying overhead...

So why I am I reading this depressing notesfile...  Same reason people gawk
at car wrecks I suppose...  It's fascinating...

Oh well... So just what is marketable out in industry these days?

/mike

    .-1
>Oh well... So just what is marketable out in industry these days?

    you might want to read the book "The decline and Fall of the American 
    Programmer"    by Edward Yourdon, by Prentice-Hall.

    this is few lines from the review of it in the Nov. 16. 1992
    of Electronics Engineering Times.

    "Software Engineers, programmers, and system analysts face massive
    unemployments by the end of the decade due to poor software quality
    and competitive threats from low-wage countries"

    "while author Edward Yourdon groups data processors, software
    maintenance people and systems analysts in this group, he also includes
    the fellow designing software for embedded systems as very much at
    risk.  this dismal forecast will come as a blow to EEs who've seen
    software as a possible alternative career path if their jobs are
    eliminated. Yourdon describes demand forecasts for more software
    engineers as folklore. In the 1980's, software may have been a true
    alternative for hardware engineers, he says. Technology was shifting
    towards software. But now, downsizing is across the board. COBOL people
    are feeling it along with hardware people"

    the article goes to show some arguments with the above.

    /nasser

re Note 2222.50 by STAR::ABBASI:

>     "Software Engineers, programmers, and system analysts face massive
>     unemployments by the end of the decade due to poor software quality
>     and competitive threats from low-wage countries"
  
        I just came from a Product Directions Forum in which the
        consensus of a panel of major customers is that there will be
        less need for programmers (in the 3rd generation language
        sense) over the next five years and more demand for
        "information technologists" who know their components
        (industry and generic applications, tool kits, and
        middleware) well and can assemble them to solve business
        problems.

        In a sense it still is programming, but at a higher level.

        Bob

    Perspective:
    
    5,000 years from now, none of this will even be remembered.
    Nobody will know what Digital was.  
    Nobody will know you lived.
    Nobody will know I lived.
    
    In fact, the time frame could probably be cut to 500 years.
    
    In fact, all the problems we're struggling with today will be
    gone in 5 years.  Probably in 1 year.  (They will be replaced
    with new problems, to be sure, but the current ones will go.)
    
    So why do the problems seem so big now?

	The replies in this string remind me of Daniel Stern's
	outburst in "City Slickers":

	"I've lost my wife, I've lost my job and I've got some
	kind of rash from making in the bushes..."

	Steve H

>    So why do the problems seem so big now?

They aren't really, just the creditors can't wait the 5000 yrs/500 yrs
1/yrs or 1 month when you are laid off and are looking for another job.

Lee

    <So why do the problems seem so big now?

    Because they are _our_ problems?
    
    
    				herb

          Re:-1 yep they sure are our problems now!! If only the mgt
    structure had been set up with more empowerment for us little guys.
    Think of where we could possibly be now as a company if the high and
    mighty only listened a little bit from ideas coming from below. For
    many years now I run into a NHHI (not/his/her/idea) syndrome when 
    trying to solve problems or portray new ideas. Now after almost 20
    years, still very busy on a project and being a 1-2 performer I'm at
    risk. On the outside I'm keeping a cheery disposition. Heck it'll at
    least make them wonder what's going on in my head. On the inside I'm
    crying...
    
    
            Bob

    Folks, try and remember, stress is like a full bladder. If you keep
    holding it in you'll soon pop, however if you just let it go you'll
    soon feel warm all over!
    
    P.S. Keep smiling it drives 'um crazy.

    after 16 years with DEC and I just found out about this notesconference
    
    re.34, .39, .48
    
    AMEN!
    
    "My God shall supply all my needs according to His riches in glory by
    Christ Jesus" Philip 4:19
    
    Gary

    >> In fact, all the problems we're struggling with today will be
    >> gone in 5 years.
    
    Not in my experience.  I'm still feeling aftershocks from problems
    brought on by incompetent/indifferent/malicious supervisors and
    managers from as long ago as 1985.  And even after all these years,
    and after all of these layoffs, most of these parasites are still
    sucking money from DEC in the form of a weekly paycheck, still causing
    the same kinds of problems in the company.
    
    And as for the wider corporate view, we're still feeling the pain
    from the close-minded attitudes and decisions surrounding Unix and
    PC's from a decade ago.
    
    No, not five years.  Fifty, maybe!  :-)
    
    Chris

    * entries from the diary of a DEC employee trying to hold up
    
    Tuesday - I lost my engagement ring at work today.  After spending two
    hours after work searching the parking lot, sorting through two bags of
    shredded paper and what was left of my co-workers' lunches, I sadly
    headed home.  My husband of ten years took the news well until he
    looked at my left hand and realized the engagement ring is the one with
    the diamond.  Then he apologized for having to ask, "Are you SURE you
    wore it to work?"  I couldn't blame him, I've been quite absent-minded
    lately.  "I'm tired of it all", I told him recapping the past couple of
    weeks activities - the roofer hasn't returned to fix the leak in our new
    roof, my phone interviews would have stood a better chance via DECtalk
    (at least one would have been more personal), did personnel even
    forward my resume because I couldn't be sure from the interview
    questions, from their "thank you for your generosity" letter it appears
    our local Red Cross doesn't know the difference between Hurricane Andrew
    Relief Fund and Disaster Relief Fund, personnel sends me a rejection
    form letter folded by a seven year old, my musician-husband misses out
    on Star Search because the ad neglected to mention "first 400", I lost
    a hubcap - this time for good, etc.  Couldn't tell you the last time I
    really, really cried, I did tonight.  Slept like a rock for a change.
    
    Wednesday - The morning's office talk asks, "How do you want your exit
    interview?"  Options are: a) conference call, b) fax machine, c)
    DECtalk, d) VTX, and, e) singing telegram from a KO impersonator.  The 
    majority opinion was Digital should save the money flying our manager 
    and a personnel person down here just to show us the door.  Why bother
    to get personal with us now, they haven't spent much time or money in
    the past to get to know us and see our skills at work, why start now? 
    MY GOD! I FOUND MY RING! Professional or not, I sound like a teeny
    bopper at a mall concert.  This is cause for celebration but it will
    not be courtesy of DIGITAL.  The local DELTA coordinator says I'm not
    eligible for the $100 dinner because I didn't submit my idea through
    her.  How am I holding up?  I appreciate your asking because I couldn't
    tell you when my manager last asked.  After this latest crisis I can
    definitely say, "I'm doing better."  I can still cry afterall and I 
    still have a sense of humour although I realize it's abit caustic.  
    But at least I'm still human.  Thanks for asking.  Good luck to
    everyone - just remember you are not alone.   

    RE: All of the above. It's the waiting that hurts. My wife is due in
    April with our first. We sold our home,and put a contract on a new
    one,and then I was told this past Tuesday by my manager "I'd be real
    nervious if I was you." If it has to happen then let it be.
    I guess what makes me the angriest is, and I truly beleive this,this go
    round and probally fruture is nothing short of political. I have had to
    sit and watch this one manager(in title only) come in at 9 and leaveat
    noon since last April. This is not the wat to return to profitability.
    
    I dowish anyone who is left the best. I have 13 years invested in DEC
    and someday I want what is due me for retiremnet! 
    
    Good Luck to all.
    Waltf

    
    re. " Digital::world:[employee...]*.* "
    
    For who, ALL, has contributed to make Digital from 475th (in 1974) to
    27th (in 1990) on Fortune-500's list ...
    
    			A L L  	of my 	R E S P E C T S
    
    A simple employee
    P_le

    In 1983, I met a Digital employee (during a travel trip for training)
    that used to be an auto-worker (at one of the big plants.)  He and his
    fellow employees had watched industry layoffs for years and knew it
    would hit their plant sooner or later.
    
    This guy (I don't remember his name) starting taking classes to train
    for a job in the computer business (Field Service.)  He went to school
    during the evenings for 2-3 years (tech school.)
    
    When the layoffs hit his plant, many of his co-workers were on the
    news saying, "We don't know what we're going to do now" (while this
    guy finished up his last evening class and went to work almost
    immediately for Digital in a new career.)
    
    I guess what I'm saying is that we all know down-sizing is happening
    (and going to happen) for the forseeable future.  It's time to keep
    resumes updated, take any education/training we can get, and prepare
    for what might happen (or take the initiative and start looking now
    for something in or out of Digital that seems a bit more secure.)
    
    Worrying about down-sizing isn't going to keep it from happening
    (and it may just make it more difficult for Digital to get through
    it.)  No matter what happens to my group or my building, I want
    Digital to succeed.  I've had 11 happy years with this company
    and I want the business to thrive (whether I'm here or not.)  Many
    people I know (including in my family) also own Digital stock.  It
    would be very nice if the stock went back up someday.  :>
    
    I'm sorry if this sounds like lecturing, but CHIN UP!!  Whether any
    of us is staying or going, we need to get on with our lives and be
    a help to Digital (or to whatever other company gets some of our
    talents in the future) and to ourselves and our families.
    
    It's time to get on with living (and make plans to put grieving
    behind us at some point.)

    rep .63>
    
    Great note, one of the best I've read. 
    I wonder what the guy is studying now ... 
    
    John

    Borrowed without permission from an advertisement for NIKE.  It
    was handed out in a Dale Carnegie class which a colleague of mine
    attended last year.
    
    
    Too often we are scared
    
    Scared of what we might not be able to do
    
    Scared of what people might think if we tried
    
    We let our fears stand in the way of our hopes
    
    We say no when we want to say yes
    
    We sit quietly when we want to scream
    
    And we shout with the others,
    
    when we should keep our mouths shut.
    
    Why?
    
    After all,
    
    we do only go around once.
    
    There's really no time to be afraid.
    
    So stop.
    
    Try something you've never tried.
    
    Risk it.
    
    Enter a triathlon.
    
    Write a letter to the editor.
    
    Demand a raise.
    
    Call winners at the toughest court.
    
    Throw away your television.
    
    Bicycle across the United States.
    
    Try bobsledding.
    
    Try anything.
    
    Speak out against the designated hitter.
    
    Travel to a country where you don't speak the language.
    
    Patent something.
    
    Call her.
    
    You have nothing to lose
    
    and everything
    
    everything to gain.
    
    JUST DO IT
    

    
    ref: .64
                LOCKSMITHING
    
    
    bob

    re:  .65
    
    great words!......thanks!
    

		Does it strike any one else strange that "Team U.S.A." 
(coporate management) has not made *ANY* move what-so-ever about the 
incredible decline of moral?  I think this scares me more than just about 
anything else about this TFSO.  As I remember it, on every other one they 
went to great pains to try and bolster moral.  Its almost as if they have
given up as well.  I believe that needs to change or Digital might very 
well become extinct.  The only exception I see is the local managers seem to 
be more willing to "talk" about the situation and advise those who might
be 'in danger'.  Even that can be seen as a negative if one is to look at 
it carefully.  Strange times.  


Dave

re Note 2222.68 by DPDMAI::DAWSON:

> (coporate management) has not made *ANY* move what-so-ever about the 
> incredible decline of moral?  

        And morale is terrible, too!  :-)


> Its almost as if they have
> given up as well.  I believe that needs to change or Digital might very 
> well become extinct.  

        For us in that part of software engineering (office, PC
        software, multimedia) that was part of the grand shuffle
        between Stone and Christ, the situation has been compounded
        by knowing (or having the right to expect) big changes were
        coming SINCE LAST APRIL -- yet NOTHING in the way of
        definitive decisions have been made (at least not until very
        recently).

        Bob

    About the only thing they can do about morale is get the damn
    downsizing done, ASAP. And the _announce_ that it's done. The 
    remaining peopel can then get on with their lives, careers, etc.

    	Maybe the news about bad morale hasn't filtered up to the top yet.
    Otherwise, we'd probably see a VP of Morale be assigned to take care of
    the problem.

    re:70
    Well said,get it done get it over with,then maybe we can start working
    on the moral problem.
    

    Re .72
    
    ... "on the moral problem."
    
    Is that a play on words?
    

Of course there's a moral problem - that's why we have 
a VP of Ethics.

    .74
    
    You took the words right out of my keyboard!
    
    K
    

I said many notes back that the only support I knew of was God.

I get to test that out.

Feel free to ask me how I made it ....

Just wish I knew a better way to tell the kids.  My daughter's upstairs
now, crying.  She knows all too well the pain of a layoff.  She's the
only one of our 3 old enough to remember the pain.

Yes, we will be upheld.

No, it's NOT easy.  I hope I never let you think I thought it was.

Dave Nichols

    
        <<< Note 2222.61 by GRANMA::WFIGANIAK "YEAH..GET THE RED ONE" >>>
                   -< All stressed up and no one to choke! >-

>    I dowish anyone who is left the best. I have 13 years invested in DEC
>    and someday I want what is due me for retiremnet! 
Have you ever checked hhow much $$ you're due upon retirement?
Hopefully, no one is relying on it for more than a nice 2 week
vacation...


Dave

    Best wishes, Dave.  Keep the faith......
    
    -- dg

    
      
        Being here in Springfield I am technically dead, that is I know
       my job is gone in about six weeks. Actually I feel much better 
       now that "waiting for the ax fall" is over. 

        I know what I need to do. I've already started my job search 
       and I am looking forward to getting on with life after DEC.

        I feel sorry for those people still waiting to find out if they
       are being let go. 

                                                               Mike

    	Yep, I've got 23 years in DEC and don't really have a 'SOLID' plan
    	yet, as to what I'm gonna do after Dec. 18th, but I'm sure gonna
    	try to enjoy the holidays!!  Maybe try attending a Culinary Academy
    	here in Atlanta....maybe look into working for the
    competition....but I'm definately not looking to work in DEC any more!!
    	It was really fun work during the 1st. 10 years or so, but the more
    	DEC grew, the harder and harder it became to enjoy the work.  The
    last 5 years have NOT BEEN FUN!!  No job satisfaction, it just was a
    way to pay the bills.  I've really tried to help DEC redirect it's
    efforts to become a world-class leader, but there are just too many
    road blocks.
    
    	Enough....best of luck to all!!
    
    	Vern T.

    i heard from al last week that you got hit. i'm sorry to hear that. it
    was fun working with you in tpl and listening to all your hunting
    stories. i hope you bounce right back. are you staying in atlanta or
    are you going to try to move back to new hampshire. i'm still waiting
    to see what happens to my dept. they told us we will be hit but they
    didn't tell us if it was going to be remote or in atlanta. i know for a
    fact if i don't get a csc position i'm gone also.
    
     GOOD LUCK IN THE FUTURE

    Yo Vern,
    
    A man of many talents.....the Culinary Academy, eh.....does that
    mean the entire district is invited to your house for Christmas
    turkey :-)
    
    Karen
    

    rep last 2
    
    	Yo Ray,
    
    	Yep, I'm a gonner!  But now the rumors are flying that 10 or so
    folks will be saved from the TFSO this time, to support distributors
    ONLY. I'm still planning on leaving.  I hope you can locate a new job!!
    
    	Karen,
    
    	Sure, if I get to go to cooking school and all that, I'll have the
    	district on over for a B-B-Q at least!!  Yeah.....right!!!
    
    	-VT 

    Hey Nasser,I read .50 and didn't find a single glaring grammatical
    error. When you want to be,you're very well versed with the King's
    English. So,what are you doing anyway,"pulling our feet"? huh?
    
    Ken

    	Ken --
    
    	Consider your leg pulled.

	Um Ken, excuse me but....

	It's the Queen's English now and has been for 40 years!

	Cathy

    Ken, Nassar has a future in some comedic profession if his Turkey
    business fails. ;-)
    
    Jim C.
    

It's still the King's English, ,the Queen just speaks it }8-)}

    So, we have come to the conclusion that this used_to_be_my_daddy
    company is merely another cork floating in the ocean of economic
    rivalry in this moral-less world.
    
    It's truly a blessing to have an opportunity like this Notes file to
    let off steam and offer some respite to fellow deccies.  But, we need
    to face the truth that what we had here no longer exists.  It does no
    good to blame, but to accept the fact that each of us must change. 
    After all, life goes on because we are able to adapt, and grow to meet
    new demands and challenges!
    
    Isn't that what life is all about?  How many of you would love a life
    that is just cushy and never contradicts or rejects or upsets what we
    have decided should be today's agenda?  How boring!
    
    For myself, inner spiritual strength and stability is the only true
    reality.  Circumstances only offer a chance to show off our flexibility
    and ingenuity in circumventing blockades to achieving our real purpose
    in life.  Whether you personally accomodate the `Golden Rule' or not,
    being human, we are not only entitled to, but expected to, pursue
    happiness.  What good does it do to wallow in the muck!  This is your
    chance to find out who you really are!  What you're really made of!
    
    If you don't know who you are, or who you'd like to become, I offer a
    suggestion.  Get to know the man who made this statement:
    
    	"In this world you will have tribulation.  But be of good cheer,
    	I have overcome the world."
    
    It is in overcoming that we become.  Move ahead.  Let this experience
    convince you to investigate He who came to overcome.  Get to know Who
    He is and how He wants to help you, not only in this situation, but in
    all life's problems.
    
    Walking hand in hand with the One above,		--Judy

    .84

    Ken, go flip on a chair. or better yet, bang your head on a coffee
    toaster.

    regards,
    /nasser

    .89
    
    Judy, Judy, Judy!
    
    You got it right on. I found out that I am on the HIT list for next
    week. I do not even understand the peace I'm feeling. 
    I take that back!  I totally understand!  My co-workers are confused.
    
    The peace of God surpasses ALL understanding!
    
    To others facing this professional crises, I urge you not to forsake
    your Creater by turn to Him for comfort.  
    
    I offer no apologies to readers/mods of this conference. But I urge all
    to understand that we are spiritual beings as well has human. We need
    to acknowledge this and THRIVE on it.
    
    Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on  thee:
    because he trusteth in thee.
    Isaiah 26:3
    
    Ehen He closes a door He opens a window!  
    
    I SEE THE LIGHT  (and it ain't a freight train coming at me! 8*)  )
    
    Peace to all
    
    Mike

    That reminded me of a John Gorka song:
    
    "I don't feel like a train anymore,
     I feel like the track...."
    
    Anyway, I was feeling pretty blue too. I got the flu in October and it
    took my defenses down. I kept getting sicker and sicker. I had trouble
    eating and sleeping, concentrating. I felt my productivity slipping
    down to a bare minimum. At home I became a couch potato. It felt truly
    crummy and frightening, because I am generally energetic and like to do
    things, and I didn't seem to be able to shake the flu. I went to the
    doctor and it turned out I got bronchitis, and had been walking around
    with a fever for weeks. I had to go out on STD to get over the wheezing
    and coughing. While I was out, I had the opportunity to formulate a
    short term plan for myself to hold myself together whatever comes.
    
    I've started a "course" for myself consisting of movies, books, music
    about other people who have worked in hostile environments and times.
    It has helped me to not feel so alone, and to identify strategies that
    other people have used to bear up. 
    
    I also have been reading books about how you plan a life change - I
    highly recommend Wishcraft. This is useful for figuring out what you
    might like to do next and how to do it. I had thought I might be one of
    those 20 years at DEC people, now I realize that I had better have a
    Plan B. At least I've made it to 5 years.
    
    I also have been treating my body as well as I can (this is partly
    because I am getting over the flu, but also because maintaining your
    health helps keep your spirits up) by starting up some Yoga practice. I
    won't touch alcohol - it is a depressant, and not helpful under the
    circumstances. Exercise helps, but only if you start out very gently,
    if you are too tense you might just hurt yourself, and that just makes
    things worse. Yoga is good for me because it puts me back in my skin
    where I belong instead of being all frazzled at the edges.
    
    I've gathered my friends around me. I had cut them off because I was so
    embarrased by the "how's DEC treating you questions." I decided that I
    was making a mistake and it was better to answer honestly and say it
    was "very hard these days." You would be surprised how wonderful your
    friends really are when the chips are down. They offer good suggestions
    and the talking is helpful. 
    
    I'm not religious, but I do think that having a certain amount
    of raw faith that whatever happens, you can survive it with your self
    esteem in tact if you can identify the skills, people, and resources
    who can help you. You need not do it on you own.
    
    The most sacred thing you can give, apart from love, is your labour.
    Your skills and energy and hard work are valuable regardless of your
    employment status.  
    
    Take courage everyone, there be rough seas ahead, me hearties. 
    
    Hope this helps somebody, it is working for me so far. 
    
                       --Catherine--*

>    To others facing this professional crises, I urge you not to forsake
>    your Creater by turn to Him for comfort.  
 
	I don't have a "creator", if you believe you have one to 
	forsake, then fine, but I don't, and I would appreciate it if you
	kept your urging to yourself.
   
>    I offer no apologies to readers/mods of this conference.

	That doesn't surprise me at all.
 
>    But I urge all
>    to understand that we are spiritual beings as well has human. We need
>    to acknowledge this and THRIVE on it.

	You might need to do this to thrive, but please don't dump your
	needs onto me.    

	Heather

    re.93
    
    Heather,
    The topic of this note is "How are you holding up".
    
    I have expressed *How* I am holding up. 
    
    I beg your indulgences on my method. I find it dishartening that I
    am not free to express my religious beliefs. If you or anyone is
    antagonistic to a *creator* that is OK.
    
    I do believe that you have that right, just as I have my right to
    proclaim my faith. If I encourage people to search for the same peace
    that I have, that is my right also.
    
    Not personal to you but generic:
    
    Why is it that people with *faith* always seem to be targets? If
    someone has no faith in spiritual things I am at no risk. If I have 
    faith, you are at no risk.
    
    In these trying times at DEC I was just trying to have an uplifting
    message. No more, no less.
    
    Peace to you and all, especially those who are being forced to leave
    DEC against their wishes.
    
    Mike  one_of_the_vacating

    
    
    
        Mot 2:36  Thou art who must leaveth drinketh til passouteth.
    
                  

    
    
    		Re:-1
    
    			

>    
>    I have expressed *How* I am holding up. 
>

It is one thing to say "I follow ..."; it is quite a different matter to tell
others to do the same thing.  That is not 'holding up', that is preaching.

>    I beg your indulgences on my method. I find it dishartening that I
>    am not free to express my religious beliefs. If you or anyone is
>    antagonistic to a *creator* that is OK.

I take this as preaching, and I do not work for Digital to be preached at.
There are several conferences on the net where you can express you religous
beliefs. 

>    I do believe that you have that right, just as I have my right to
>    proclaim my faith. 

Does that including preaching (telling others what they must do)?

>If I encourage people to search for the same peace
>    that I have, that is my right also.

Not when it is harrassing, you do not.
    
>    Why is it that people with *faith* always seem to be targets? 

Maybe because some of them are not content to have their faith but foist it
upon anyone else for any reason?  

>    someone has no faith in spiritual things I am at no risk. If I have 
>    faith, you are at no risk.

If you preach your beliefs here, I may not be at risk but I am being
harrassed.  Please see corporate policies on the subject.


-Joe

    
    
       If there aint no beer in heaven
    
    
    
       I AINT GOING! 
    
    
    

    One thing I have discovered over the years is that those who think they
    have their life together usually don't when the crisis hits.  This
    notesfile have been a great source of friendship for some of us, such
    as myself, who admit that we are scared and aren't sure what we are going 
    to do when it does hit and what we are going to do after it hits.  It 
    has made me feel alot stronger knowing that others understand what I am 
    going through and have taken the time to respond.   
    
    This whole TFSO thing has been the most poorly managed thing I have 
    witnessed in this company.  I have no doubt I could handle it better if
    somebody would just say what date I need to have my desk cleaned out.  I 
    would have a better idea of how to prioritize my work and work smarter 
    for Digital. Even a doctor can prognose how long you have to live.  It
    is like having a loaded gun aimed at your head.  My reaction is
    "either shoot the damn thing or put it away".  The saying "children
    shouldn't play with firearms" couldn't be more true.
    
    Now, I've gotten that off my back and I feel better.  Again, thanks for 
    lending me your ear(s).

	RE: .97 Joe, you're preaching at me and I'm offended. And feel
	harrassed. What are you going to do about it?

			Alfred

    It's interesting that irreligious, agnostic people are so threatened by
    the word "faith" that they consider mentioning it being preached at.
    
    I'd urge my fellow irreligious, agnostics to have the courage of their
    convictions.
    

Please let's not go down the religion rathole.  If someone says they are coping
with the current situation through their religion, fine.  It's up to those of us
that have a different or no religion to read it, ignore it, or be converted.

Let's keep this discussion on topic and move the discussion of religious
harrassment elsewhere.

Paul, co-moderator of DIGITAL

    I don't expect others to tell me to have a faith I don't have.
    I don't expect others to tell me not to forsake a creator I don't have.
    
    
    I am not threatened by it. I consider it rude. I consider it to be
    stuff I don't want to hear. If I wanted to hear about such matters I
    would find a conference that was dedicated to matters religious. 

    <The peace of God surpasses ALL understanding!
    
   < To others facing this professional crises, I urge you not to forsake
   < your Creater by turn to Him for comfort.  
    
    <Please let's not go down the religion rathole.  
    Then where in hell were you when somebody starting spewing garbage like
    the above. Garbage that has no place in the Digital Conference.
    
    Of course, anybody is welcome to work through the current situation
    with their religion. I even suppose that somebody is entitled to tell
    us publicly that he finds his religion an important refuge.
    
    He has absolutely NO right to tell me that "MY" maker will take care of
    me.
    And he has absolutely NO right to tell me the "Peace of God surpasses
    all understanding.
    He violated conference protocol. Address that!
    And you damn well should have stopped it then, not after people
    responded to it.(even though some of them responded to it quite rudely)
    
    <It's up to those of us that have a different or no religion to read it,
    <ignore it, or be converted.
    No it isn't. It's up to the moderators to prevent it. And it's up to
    those of us who find it offensive to complain about it.

    Hey, folks.  Lighten up.  Whatever gets you through, go for it.
    (Assuming it's legal....)
    
    Just realize that what works for you may not work for somebody else,
    and vice-versa.  Got it?  No big deal.
    

    
    
    
           Re -1      AMEN!!    (oops...sorry)
    
    
    

    Re: .97 and religious harrassment thread thereafter:
    
    Apparently it IS a big deal for some people.  I may fall in the
    catagory that Tom describes in .101.  I certainly am "unchurched" and
    take little part in organized religious practices.  I can't describe my
    reaction as being offended and harrassed (slightly put off is more like
    it) but I support those who would POLITELY ask that the theological
    references be toned down in this conference.  
    
    On the other hand, I respect that folks of deep theological persuasions
    are rarely aware of how strongly other may react to their well-meant 
    proselyting.   
    
    This is a time when all of us are "on edge" so it behoves all writers
    to chose their words extra carefully.

    re -1 you beat me to it
    
    Maybe the Pope can come up with a Patron Saint of Lay-offees.
    

    St. Jude is the patron saint of lost causes.
    
    John H.

    Since the NEXT UNSEEN key does not seem to work for several people,
    maybe the title of this note should be:
    
    'How are you holding up ... as long as it is 
       not relying on faith or karma and it 
         doesn't offend me'
    
    - John :-)
    

    I agree with Steve. Take a chill pill folks.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    re .91
    
    I would have no problem with .91 if it were phrased with "I messages"
    rather than "you messages".   It is presumptuous (and causes most
    people to tune out) to start talking as if others would be fine if only
    they would share *your* religious values.
    
    Example:
    
    >To others facing this professional crises, I urge you not to forsake
    >your Creater by turn to Him for comfort.  
    
    >I offer no apologies to readers/mods of this conference. But I urge all
    >to understand that we are spiritual beings as well has human. We need
    >to acknowledge this and THRIVE on it.
    
    (My response:  Ugh...tell me how you're coping, not how I should.)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    How about...
    
      In facing this professional crisis, I have found myself regularly
      turning to my Creator for comfort.
    
      In times like this, I realize so clearly that I am a spiritual being as
      well as having human needs, and I choose to acknowledge this and THRIVE
      on it.
    
      I am finding that the peace of God passes all understanding.  I am
      seeing that when He closes a door, he opens a window.
    
    (My response:  I'm glad to hear that your faith is keeping you going at
    this time.  Best wishes.)
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Holly

    
    
    Lord, if "you people" get so upset about someone mentioning their faith
    and how it helps them through a time of crisis, what are you going to
    do when something really important bothers you?  Man -- lots of people
    are on their way to the loony bin, me thinks.
    
          GJD  --  also on the path to the loony bin
    
    

    Well put, Holly.  The "you messages" may get our attention but not
    necessary the _reaction_ intended.

I find that I stay happier if I don't take offense at things
other people say.  If I don't agree with them, I will just
let it go in one ear and out the other.

    No dammit, listen.
    
    It's when we are told that somebody else's faith is going to help US.
    You don't understand English or something?

    
    
    Relax, Herb -- it you don't like what you're reading -- ignore it, it's
    that simple.  Don't go ranting over something that YOU have the power
    to control by ignoring it.  Get a grip....
    
         GJD

    Lets just say that, on an intellectual level, everyone in this
    conference does understand the differences between I messages and You
    messages. It's just that the perception at the 'gut' level differs
    markedly. 

    RE .118
    
    You should be aware that your last reply is a clear violation of this
    company's policies regarding the proper use of Notes conferences.
    
    The moderator of this conference should, rightfully, delete reply .118.
    
    ... Bob
    

.118 has been deleted as it violates Digital P&P concerning personal attacks on
other employees.

Y'all, it's Friday, please take the weekend to think about what you are saying
before I'm forced to write-lock this topic.

Thanks,

Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    hi,

    this is a time for a good stress reduction exercise , 
    this is special one because you can do it all in front of your screen
    at your disk, sit up all tight and relaxed and bend your knees up and 
    inhale 5 times then exhale it while wiggling your ears left and right 
    10 times and all the time saying "iam good" "iam good" 20 times making 
    sure that your feets are above the chair at same level as your keyboard
    and dont flip it over , do this whole exercise 5 times then
    repeat it in the other directions, after it is all over you'll
    feel much better , the nice thing about this as you see is that it can 
    all be done sitting down in the comfort of your cube and it can be
    done as many time as you want depending on your current stress levels.

    hope this help my fellow DECeees.

    /nasser

    
    
    	but nasser? is that exercise ergonomically correct? *8^}
    
    							kim

    It is very interesting to see such a diverse amount of reactions in
    this topic...  It appears as though the impending doom of our futures
    may have set fuses short, tempers flaring.
    
    I've not ever looked in here before, but as a Christian, was interested
    in knowing how my fellow employees feel about me.  Rather disturbing. 
    You see we are all created inately to be "accepted" or "liked", and
    honestly, we all hope that regardless of our inadequacies that we will be
    accepted or liked.  I find it very difficult to understand why my
    religious slant would create such a fuss... after all what are my
    values, my virtues, my standards as a result of my faith?
    
    "Love my neighbor as I would myself", that doesn't sound like such a
    bad thing does it?
    
    What a day we live in, when at a time of crisis in our world (not just
    Digital), that God is thought of as the bad guy... 
    
    Go ahead and flame me... I have toughened somewhat since I was child
    and needed everyone to "like" me... :-)
    
    Sighing,
    Nancy
    

    .123

    ergonomically correct? humm, well Kim, it is supposed to get your ego up, so
    that part is there for like to the max , iam not sure if it economical 
    though, try reducing the "iam good" humming and do it for 10 times instead 
    of 20, the book i got this exercise from is a good book written by
    Dr flinger-over PhD , school of medical and mental entitlments, so it must 
    be a good one .

    hope this helps.

    /nasser

    
      
        Hey NASA, are you a spaceshot or what?
    
       stop smoking those damn things....
    
            -the MOTLEY ONE
    

>    It's interesting that irreligious, agnostic people are so threatened by
>    the word "faith" that they consider mentioning it being preached at.

Sorry, but it is slightly more than what you have portrayed.  The reply I
commented on specifically told the readers to believe in a very specific
thing.  That is not faith.  The faith is the person's belief.  When that
goes beyond that person, it is much more than that person's faith in a
given religion.

>	RE: .97 Joe, you're preaching at me and I'm offended. And feel
>	harrassed. What are you going to do about it?

Nothing.  If you feel you are harrassed, I suggest you take it through the
appropriate channels.

>    
>    Lord, if "you people" get so upset about someone mentioning their faith
>    and how it helps them through a time of crisis, what are you going to
>    do when something really important bothers you?  

Please re-read the note.  It went beyond 'mentioning their faith and how it 
helps them'.  The presence, or lack of it, of this sort of thing in this 
type of conference IS important to me.

    
>    Relax, Herb -- it you don't like what you're reading -- ignore it, it's
>    that simple.  Don't go ranting over something that YOU have the power
>    to control by ignoring it.  Get a grip....

Sorry, but the objectionable content becomes apparent AFTER some reads the
note (or part of it).  By then, it is too late too hit next unseen.  Sure,
it is fine to prevent continued reading but....

>    
>    I've not ever looked in here before, but as a Christian, was interested
>    in knowing how my fellow employees feel about me.  Rather disturbing. 

Why?  I do not see that anyone is complaining about what YOU hold as a religious
view.  The objection is to telling OTHER people to have that same view.

I really cannot understand why some people just do not see that.  Believe
whatever you like; don't expect/demand others to have those same beliefs.
They ay, they may not.

>    accepted or liked.  I find it very difficult to understand why my
>    religious slant would create such a fuss... after all what are my
>    values, my virtues, my standards as a result of my faith?
    
Your values, etc... I see nothing wrong with that at all.  I do see something
wrong with trying to make them other people's values.

>    "Love my neighbor as I would myself", that doesn't sound like such a
>    bad thing does it?

No, it is the "Love YOUR neighbor as YOUR self" that is the problem (being
TOLD to do so).
    
>    What a day we live in, when at a time of crisis in our world (not just
>    Digital), that God is thought of as the bad guy... 

Not everyone believes in God.

	"The young atheist cannot be too careful of his beliefs"

						-- C.S. Lewis

    
    
    	nasser was RIGHT! 10 times works great! 
    	(stop smoking argyles, right?)
    
    					kim

    
    	Man....I thought I had some problems...
    
    	You guys who preach the "word" better call your preacher and let 
    them know that you are getting laid off so they can budget your tithing 
    for the next quarter:')
    
    							-d-

>>    I've not ever looked in here before, but as a Christian, was interested
>>    in knowing how my fellow employees feel about me.  Rather disturbing. 
>
>Why?  I do not see that anyone is complaining about what YOU hold as a religious
>view.  The objection is to telling OTHER people to have that same view.
>
>I really cannot understand why some people just do not see that.  Believe
>whatever you like; don't expect/demand others to have those same beliefs.
>They [m]ay, they may not.
    
    To say "believe what you like" is prostelytizing a view.  To say "don't
    tell us..." is to tell us.
    
    Those who do not believe in God, or hold another religious persuasion
    have offered sound advice:  skip it and increase your threshold for
    offense.  It seems to be quite an over-reaction.  These people do not
    spout hypocrisies as you have done in your overreaction.
    
    I know there are many who do not believe as I do.  I also know that
    some people do not or cannot express themselves in a manner that will
    be inoffensive to all.
    
    It shows by the number of replies that much air time has been given
    to Christianity (and as a Christian, I am not ungrateful) by the
    overreaction to someone's comment which was intended to share what
    brings solace to them in this time of turmoil.
                 
    Mark Metcalfe

    	It seems RUSURE::MELVIN has a point, and I think it has been
    	made abundantly clear.  Holly in .112 really hit the nail on
    	the head in making the distinction between "I" messages and
    	"you" messages.
    
    	The topic here is "How are you holding up".  Replies should
    	be of the form:  "I am (or am not) holding up by/becasue..."
    
    	If answers were supposed to be:  "You would hold up better if
    	you [don't] ...", or "You will have a problem holding up because 
    	you [don't] ...", then the title of the topic would have, "What
    	should we do to hold up".
    
    	Up until this time I don't recall seeing an entry soliciting
    	advice on how to hold up either.
    
    	At the same time I can see why people presenting a Christian
    	perspective to the issue feel singled out.  Nobody took issue
    	with the entries advocating drinking, yet those also "preached"
    	a particular practice to help us deal with the layoffs.
    
    	OK.  So a "preachy" note was entered, and a rathole ensued.  
    	Since the initial flurry, I haven't seen any more "offening"
    	entries of this nature.  It appears to me that the message
    	was received.  Is the continuation of the rathole necessary
    	now?

    	OK, so to help the topic get back on track, I'll list what
    	helps me hold up.

    	First of all I feel lucky to be in a business area (Customer
    	Support) that seems to be somewhat sacred.  It makes money,
    	is growing, and is very visible.  Until now my group has not
    	"had the opportunity to participate in the TFSO."  

    	This time around, though, we "get to participate" (as if it is
    	some great honor or something.)  First criteria for TFSO is
    	"can your job be eliminated?"  I have alot of faith that it
    	can't.  But if it can, this service cannot be eliminated
    	entirely.  Someone has to man the oar(s) on this boat.  Next
    	criteria is "performance at the last 12-month review".  Mine
    	was excellent.  I just hope that it was more excellent than
    	enough other people to keep me afloat!

    	And finally, to keep from worrying myself into ill health
    	and ulcers, I *DO* rely on my faith to give me direction,
    	comfort, insight, hope, and inspiration.

>    	First of all I feel lucky to be in a business area (Customer
>    	Support) that seems to be somewhat sacred.  It makes money,
>    	is growing, and is very visible.  Until now my group has not
>    	"had the opportunity to participate in the TFSO."  

 well joe,
    
    monday will be the 5th (count 'em FIVE) times the groups i have been
    in will have been hit. it's getting sickening.
    
    gene.

    one day i will be laid off from this life that i have tried to 
    live to the best of my ability... but, will their be a notes 
    conference for me to share how well i did?  will i stand before
    a group of people that will madly question my feelings if i
    should have the courage to express them?
    
    the moderator that i WILL stand before will not condemn me for
    my job being well done and, thier will not be any objections
    from anyone that may be present to what might be said.
    
    the moderator will not except anyone's excuse because we all
    had a chance to listen and share.
    
    
    
     i call my moderator GOD the CREATOR
      

    ref: .138
    
>    	At the same time I can see why people presenting a Christian
>    	perspective to the issue feel singled out.  Nobody took issue
>    	with the entries advocating drinking, yet those also "preached"
>    	a particular practice to help us deal with the layoffs.
    
    Excellent observation!
    
    ref: .many_previous
    
    This and other conferences contain a lot of comments that stray from
    the base note.  Sometimes a little.  Sometimes a lot.  Generally not
    a big deal.  I've moderated several conferences...    Just mention
    relegion or faith or something similar and suddenly it's a big deal.
    Very interesting.
    
    Anyway, back to the main topic.  It's a sad thing to expect to "get
    the word" on Monday morning after 15 years.  It's especially sad when
    the advertised decision process isn't being applied;  I'm simply falling
    through an increasingly large crack.  Even so, I'm holding up just fine. 
    
    I'm getting back to watching my diet closely.  Exercise a bit more.
    Play lots of classical guitar material along with a lot of Christmas
    carols at the moment.  Listen to relaxing music a bit more than
    usual.  Enjoy being close to my family.  Starting to look for a new
    job.  I have lots of reasons to look forward to the future;  I'm
    certain things will work out.
    
    Oh, by the way, my certainty about the future doesn't have anything to
    do with my family or music or exercise.  I have faith that my Lord is
    taking care of me; He always has.
    
    Bob

    How am I holding up?
    
    Actually, I'm being held up - and I give thanks for that.
    
    re: .136:
    
    I did just what you suggested and guess what - the people I talked with
    really care, offered support and their friendship.
    
    Thanks .136 for the suggestion; it really helped.  Ya know, it's really
    funny sometimes how we affect others in a really good way even when
    we're completely unawares of just whatr we've done.
    
    	Peace,
    
    	Ron
    

    re: .141
    
>    i call my moderator GOD the CREATOR
    
    In many conferences these days, that's their preferred form of address.
    
    re: .0
    
    Anyway, as to how I'm holding up...
    
    I got my inner peace when I figured out that no one (at least no one
    who's willing to share it with me) really knows what the new DEC is
    going to do for a living, but that it won't be as comfortable and
    friendly as the old DEC and that the old DEC (for the past few years)
    wasn't all that rewarding anyway.
    
    Going from being upset because of the massive amounts of waste (many
    times, while walking through the plant, I had wondered, "What on earth
    could all these people doing for a living?") to being upset because
    necessities (both people and things) can't be had kind of clued me in
    to the fact that this company is not operating in a fashion I'd
    consider rational and I'm certainly not one who has any input on how to
    fix it.
    
    So I wait.  I come in and do whatever the local management (who doesn't
    know the big picture either) thinks needs to be done, but I don't get
    passionate or emotionally tied to it because someone somewhere in some
    little office could decide that DEC isn't in the business that I, and
    literally thousands of other people do any more.  (A couple years ago,
    it was decided that whatever systems we used for manufacturing, other
    companies could probably use as well and we were ordered to "go out and
    make money for DEC" by selling these technologies out of our little
    shoestring internal engineering groups.  Having done that, now DEC is
    dissolving entire real professional computer company-type development
    groups.  If we're not in the business of selling many of our own
    layered products any more, what future is there in being involved in
    these nickle and dime one-of's?)
    
    Now I know I have skills that people want, but when I think about going
    out on my own, figuring out my what my rate would be and how many hours
    I'd have to get out of how many different clients, I get scared. Right
    now, the confusion at DEC is stress-inducing and painful, but less
    terrifying than a total lifestyle change.
    
    So, until things work themselves out at the top and/or I get laid off,
    I have practically no control over my work life.   
    
    I take as much comfort as I can out of getting paid for coming in and
    doing what I do.  There is no joy in a job well done anymore.  It's
    come down strictly to money.
    
    And that seems to be the bottom line for both the company and me.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    
    How am I holding up?  More or less OK, I guess, except that I find 
    I now have rich and varied dreams; textures and colors stand out that 
    I have never seen before.  Does stress do that?
    
    Last night (and I'm not kidding) I had a dream that I was
    in a Digital facility. I walked in through a standard foyer
    of one of DEC's buildings, but when I walked past the lobby,
    it seemed like I was in a "building 19" sort of place.  There
    were racks and racks of clothes, scattered randomly around.  
    All of the clothes were Digital-logo sweatshirts, tennis sweaters, 
    T-shirts, shorts, and caps.  Some of the logos on the clothes were 
    large, some small, some horizontal, some vertical.  All were blue 
    (and I have never dreamed in color before).
    
    I was unable to find anything in my size.
    
    Glenn
    
    

This weekend was not a weekend at all.
It was an unbearable free-fall.

Today it is like waiting in the death camp for a selection.
Tomorrow can only be better, knowing what will happen.

I've not been able to eat much so I feel like
someone whose been fasting for a week

	erik

    this reply is bad, and I don't ususally do things like this, so maybe
    you should do "next unseen" ---- I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry - I
    just couldn't resist!
    
    re .145:
    
    That really wasn't building 19; it WAS Digital.
    
    The problem is "where were all the bodies buried?"
    
    	Ron
    
    ps: mine included as of Friday
    

    I have worked in Dec for almost nine years now and the axe finally fell
    today, 8:15am.  
    
    However, I was ready to leave and felt that our department was going to
    go which it did. Twenty of us, whch was our entire group 
     with the exception of the supervisors.  
    
    I worked in telemarketing in MKO.  I feel positive that there is more
    out there and even though a door has been closed, I'll just have to
    kick down another one.  
    
    I guess I would like to say good luck to the people who are getting
    the package, I hope that you prosper and grow.  As for those that are
    left to carry on, my good wishes for you also, as I believe this is
    hard on you as well.  
    
    The rest of the people in my department, have taken this very hard,
    seeing all of us go. 
    
    I have worked with some wonderful people during my time and I thank
    all of them for putting up with me. I will think of them often with
    much fondness and in some cases, a lot of laughter.
    
    Once the shock and grief have worn off, take a look into yourself for
    all the talent and skills you have and work on them.  Keep busy, your job
    is looking for a job.  In the meantime, so many places need 
    volunteers's for a couple hours a day.  Volunteer your time, your 
    knowledge, your expertise or just yourself, and who know's when one of
    the volunteer jobs may turn into something interesting.  Most important
    just keep busy.  
      
    Best of luck to all.  Its been a blast.
    
    Jane MacMillan
    
    
    
    

    
>    I do believe that you have that right, just as I have my right to
>    proclaim my faith. If I encourage people to search for the same peace
>    that I have, that is my right also.
 
	Okay then, I shall use my right;

	I urge you to give up this belief in a non-existant creator, turn to
	yourself, friends and family for comfort, because their is no devine
	being that is going to help you out of anything.
		
	I urge you to understand that anything spiritual is only in the mind, 
	it is not real, there is no God. You need to acknowledge this and 
	thrive on the fact that	you are human, you are you, and you are the
	person that will survive and thrive - and you can do this, only if you 
	face the facts, and don't expect intervention from a god that dosen't 
	exist.


	and in reply to the person who thought some people thought god is bad:

	God is neither good or bad, it just doesn't exist.

	Heather

    Heather,
    
    While I can understand your right to believe what you choose not to
    believe in :-), (funny kinda statement), I can't help but here so much
    hopelessness in your message.
    
    If God is in my *mind*, how does that hurt me?  You see, many times I
    have trusted God with my life, my finances, my children, my parents,
    and He has never failed me.    So, if my mind is that powerful and I
    choose to call my belief Jesus, who does it hurt?
    
    This is difficult to write because when you think about Christianity,
    it is always referenced to the judgmental God from up on high, who
    blasts his sentences of death on mankind.  
    
    This image of God hurts me, because that is not the God I know or love. 
    The God I know and love is represented in a very familiar Christmas
    Carole:
    
                     Joy to the World
                     the Lord is come
                     let the nations sing
                     the glory of his righteousness
    
                     and *wonders* of his love
                     and *wonders* of his love
    
    When I was a young 13 year old girl, emotionally and sexually abused by
    my father, God gave me peace and turned bitterness to love through his
    gift of Christ.  No therapy, no psychiatrists, just Jesus.  
    
    Most of you don't know me, but there are a few in here that do, and
    could testify that I am not a nutcase or a weirdo born again Christian
    (even tho' I am born again)!  I am a normal divorced woman, who has had
    a life of trials, just like many of you.  I am at peace and I have joy
    because of God the Creator.
    
    God Bless You,
    Nancy

    Re: ..149:
    
    Thank you Heather. It's refreshing to hear from the "other side" of the
    debate once in a while.  
    
    What interests me, having read Joseph Campbell - the "Power of Myth" -,
    is that it's now clear to me that it's all the same thing: God both
    exists and does not exist - 'reality' just doesn't come into it where
    the gods are concerned.  
    
    Hint: Campbell describes Jehovah (or Yahweh), the god of the old
    testament, as a jealous and proud Hebrew tribal god who insists on
    having "no other gods before" him.  Unlike his Hindu counterpart
    _Indra_, Yahweh is never disabused of his sin of pride by a timely
    visit from Vishnu.  Too bad: history is witness to the consequences:
    the Judeo-Christian tradition pitting man/religion against nature and
    all.  
    
    Moral: develop and use your own myth systems to advantage; your beliefs
    are the source of your power to cope.  They should tell you to expect
    suffering as part of living.  But more, they should guide you in the
    experience of that life you have.  Heather's 'understanding' is just as
    'true' as any you might get from the sacred writings of the world's
    thousands of religions.

    Time to write lock this note. This debate is getting as heated as
    any abortion debate I've heard. Take it offline, through EMAIL
    perhaps? Have fun.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

I thought this was the DIGITAL notes conference and not some `religious'
conference.  Where is this conversation heading to anyway?

    or stick to those "I messages", no matter how diverse they may be...and
    to the original spirit of this message.
    
    I *like* hearing how people are coping as long as they don't start
    proselytizing.

    In Utopia, only two laws are needed:
    
    	1) Don't bother anybody.
    
    	2) Don't be too easy to bother.

    it looks like people have not been doing the exercises i posted in their
    cubes.

    -1 :-)
    
    Not trying to make this a religious discussion...  I have stated what I
    felt *I* needed to.
    
    Outta here,
    
    I invite anyone who wants to know more about Christianity into the
    Christian notes conference... there are notes set up for this kind of
    discussion.
    
    Nancy

    Re: .149 (SURUSB::THOMASH)
    
    Spot on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    -Dave.
    

    How am I holding up ..... Quite well actually, I was selected for the
    TFSO program Monday and have come to accept it. We'll see if there
    really is life after DEC. After making an investment of 16 years in
    Digital I wish that it had ended differently, it didn't.
    
    You folks that are pounding each other over "religion", what's so
    important about how other people cope with stress ? Some folks see
    their faith as central to dealing with the current mess and think it's
    useful to explain how it works for them, fishing works for me. Want to
    hear how proper setup of fishing tackle restores universal order ?
    I thought not....
    Good luck folks...

    
    re: .-1
    
    Amen!
    
    Well, on second thought,
    
    Right on!
    
    Best wishes, and be kind to us no-package people job hunting next
    quarter, or next next quarter...  %^)

>          <<< Note 2222.149 by SUBURB::THOMASH "The Devon Dumpling" >>>

Heather,
	Well said. Wonderful common sense.

	Craig

p.s. I'm holding up well - I celebrated down the pub when I got made 
     redundant !!

>                   <<< Note 2222.150 by JULIET::MORALES_NA >>>
>                            -< My Hope lies in Him >-

    
>    If God is in my *mind*, how does that hurt me?  You see, many times I
>    have trusted God with my life, my finances, my children, my parents,
>    and He has never failed me.    So, if my mind is that powerful and I
>    choose to call my belief Jesus, who does it hurt?
 
Many people, like yourself, are able to use religion to help them solve
problems and that is good. However, the fundamental problem with turning
to some invented being for answers is that a small minority take the
religious writings and turn them round for their own personal ends. 
They don't take responsiblity for their own behaviour by basically 
saying that an unquestionable being said it was OK.

We have seen the Church of England exclude women because of what is 
written in the Bible. We have seen the persecution of homosexuals for
a similar reason. Religion has also been used to put down a wide variety
of cultures, traditions and has caused many wars around the world. The
problems in Northern Ireland are partially about religion, as are those
in the West Bank. Religion has been one of the biggest causes of wars!

The bible was probably the greatest example ever of censorship, when the
Bishop of Lyon (?) first collected the various biblical works together,
decided what was appropriate and put them into one book which later
became the bible. There's plenty stuff which "God" wrote, and which didn't
make it in. 

God doesn't exist, the bible was written and edited by people. Whilst it has
many answers, it isn't a work which is unquestionable nor should it be
an excuse for discrimination. 

Your friends and family are real and can probably help you. 

You don't have to beleive in a Supreme Being to be spiritual.

Craig

    Umm, wouldn't the religion discussion be better off left to the
    philosophy conference? or maybe SOAPBOX? 

>    While I can understand your right to believe what you choose not to
>    believe in :-), (funny kinda statement).

	I agree, a very funny statement. I not chosen, I can't believe in
	something that doesn't exist, I don't believe in a god, I don't believe
	in santa clause, and I don't believe the world is flat.
	
>   I can't help but here so much hopelessness in your message.
 
	I do not find it hopeless to find comfort from friends and family, and 
	to draw on my resources to ensure anything causeing a problem to myself,
	family or friends is fixed.

	I find it completely hopeless to wait endlessly for a non-exisitant god 
	to fix things for me.

	Heather

    RE: .149
    
    Nice note Heather. I especially like the use of the "I'm not preaching
    and this is for your own good believe me" approach so often adopted by
    these people.
    
    I too rely on friends, family and personal strength to pull me through.
    Waiting for a non-existant, mythical "God" to sort my life out for me
    is a complete waste of time.
    
    I believe that organised religion is mostly a case of the greedy, lazy
    and unscrupulous preying on the fears and insecurities of the weak and
    inadequate. I, for one, don't want anyone telling me I need that in a
    Company Notes conference.
    
    Laurie.

	re .99:

>    This whole TFSO thing has been the most poorly managed thing I have 
>    witnessed in this company.  

	If you mean it, that it is a really crushing evaluation. The
	competition is Olympic-class.

	/Tom

re .-1

There are some areas where the "World Class" and "Best in Class" labels
should be avoided....

    The question is: how am I holding up?

    I take great comfort in the support I have felt in communion with my
    God during these difficult times. I also take great comfort in the
    support I have felt from my family and friends. (Please note: these are
    "I" statements about how "I" am holding up.)

    As to God's existence, I accord every person his own free agency to
    choose for him or herself whether or not to acknowledge God, just as I
    believe God has accorded each of us this agency. 

    As for me, I know God lives with every fiber of my being! He is the
    father of my spirit, and as such, he is a God of love, who will listen
    to his children and help them. I know that he sent his Son, Jesus
    Christ, to redeem mankind. I know that after this life I will enter
    again into his presence, and that I have the opportunity to receive
    from him his greatest gift, eternal life, if I will obey him.

    Please do not take offense at my comments. I share them only as my
    sincere belief and to describe how *I* am holding up, during these
    times.

    I've been quiet long enough.  I thought this religion thing was settled
    about 50 notes ago, but you athiest's  just wont shut up!!! No one is
    trying to convert you, no offence was intended, but obviously because
    of your insecurity some offence was taken.   A religous person wrote a
    note discribing  "How they are holding up".  Learn from it or ignore
    it, I see no reason to insult that person by trying to shoot holes in
    thier beliefs.     

    Is religion a disease of the mind ? Some of these testimonials
    really make me grieve over what a pathetic,weak and unreasoning
    species we are.If this is the state of the intellect of 20th
    century man then there is not much hope for us.
    
    Mike

    yes, please.  Both sides should cool it.  No, "last word" notes.

    RE: .171

    I believe these types of statements cross the line. These kind of
    attacks are uncalled for.

    Further, I do not see where these statements add value to the topic at
    hand.

    ********************

    As for the "topic at hand"  "How are you holding up?"

    I find getting involved with Scouting helps me to hold up. I have been
    involved in Scouting for about 18 years..... and it lifts my spirits to
    see the young guys achieve...

    When I'm not scouting, I release through woodworking. This has a great
    therapeutic value..... I can tune anyone/thing out when I'm creating
    things of wood....
    
    Now, let's hear it from the Scout bashers and tree lovers out there.
    
    So.... (.171) is scouting and/or woodworking cause for you to "really
    make me grieve over what a pathetic,weak and unreasoning species we 
    are." BUT THEN we all have our opinions.... They are like noses... we
    all have one.... and they all smell..!!! BUT they are ours, like it or
    not.!!!
    
    Lighten up on the attacks... "-< a pathetic species >-"
    

              And I thought I was going to miss notes! Gack! and goodbye!
                                                Mary Holtorf
                                    

    alright already. two alternative conferences have been suggested to
    deal with the religious stuff (christian_perspectives and soapbox).
    please, depending on your persuasion, take the discussion to one or the
    other.
    **********************
    How any I holding up. Actually not that badly considering everything
    that has happened to me at DEC since last Jan. The streets. That's
    where I go to find solace and try to think things over. 20 miles of
    running each and every week. no small feat for those over 40 and here
    in minnesota where the winters are legendary.

  I will be doing fine....I am outta here!

    
    Well since this is about how you are holding up, it is obvious that
    .171 is referring to themselves.  Sorry you feel that way about
    yourself.
    
    
    
    Back to the question.  Not bad, it's been going on fo r2 1/2 years now
    I guess it is as if I am numb when it comes to this subject.  The one
    thing that's really depressing is that we (Digital) still have no
    message that we are communicating to the customers.  Remember "Digital
    has it Now"?  What is our new message, we need one and we need it
    NOW!!!!  
    
    
    Mike

>	Remember "Digital has it Now"?  What is our new message, we need 
>	one and we need it NOW!!!!  
    
		Based on recent performance, perhaps the following fits:
	
			"Digital has had it Now"


						Tom_K

    Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, good to see you able to vent and
    sound off, though.  It sort of replaced the deep breathing exercise,
    eh? :-)
    
    I must admit I feel somewhat bruised by the harshness in here, but I 
    have thick skin... :-)
    
    Merry Christmas,
    Nancy
    

    re: .177
    
    Mike, we have one!  Maybe it hasn't hit the streets yet.  Its
    "Distributed Computing That Works".  Wadda ya tink?
    
    dennis

re Note 2222.180 by DWOMV2::CAMPBELL:

>     Mike, we have one!  Maybe it hasn't hit the streets yet.  Its
>     "Distributed Computing That Works".  Wadda ya tink?
  
        Yeah, that'll grab them!

    Slogans?  Ya want slogans?  Rhyming slogans even?  Well since I wrote
    all of most of these save an occasional first line, I guess I can
    cross-post...  And since you all probably have lots better things to do
    than add this file to your NOTES$NOTEBOOKs, I have taken the liberty of
    NOT associating THEBAY::JOYOFLEX to this note. :-)  Happy Holidays, all... 
    (-: Dan :-)
    
        Now let us praise Clients & Servers,
        from Mini's old path may they swerve us.
             -- And if we do PCs
            that sell like bees' knees,
        those clients may even preserve us.
    
    
        But we will need more than PCs
        that sell like the knees of the bees.
            We'll also need action
            from Alpha and VAXen
        to augment our core comp-tencies.
    
    
        On the fifty-first annum past Pearl,
        Black Monday will dawn in DEC's world.
            There'll be cutting and slashing
            and the sound of teeth gnashing
        Is that red ink -- or blood -- in the swirl?
    
    
        So, here's to you, Alpha aXp!
        May your future be bright as ol' DEC's be!
            May you help us come back,
            May red ink turn to black --
        'fore we're tattered and spent as old WRECKS be!
    
    
        As we enter the era of Wireless
        We know Mother DEC will require less
            of those who've resigned
            after having designed
        the old systems that cost more and inspire less.
    
        ...or...
    
        As we enter the era of Wireless
        Our offices we will re-wire less,
            'cause packets will fly
            back & forth in the sky;
        and we'll prosper because we will hire less.
    
    ... and finally, the one I *know* you've all been waiting for... :-)
    
    
    
        "Distributed Computing That Works"
         distinguishes DEC from the jerks
            who peddle and prod
            but who don't know that God
         networks Heaven with stellar PATHWORKS.
    

	I would like to say a big     THANKYOU    to all of you who have 
	sent me mails of thanks and support since I entered .149.

	I am overwhelmed by the responses and the messages of support you have 
	given me.


	Thankyou again,


	Heather

    wow,  won't this topic ever die?  I feel a write-lock getting closer.
    
    

Re: .184

>    Distributed computing that works.....hmmmmmmmm, okay.  What is this
>    distributed computing you speak of?  Okay so it works, I have a 286 PC
>    at home that works.....it's slow and cumbersome, but it works.   Sorry,
>    it doesn't cut it for me.  How about something like this....

Mike,

This is a decision. I don't think it's up for debate now.
    
>    Digital-the future of computing, Now!   
>    Digital-computer solutions for tomorrow, today!
    
Unfortunately, most customers don't buy "computing" other than as a tool to
get their jobs done. The emphasis is now on "bringing people together".
That's what we do best.

>    We need to say it, shout it from the mountain and prove it.  It's got
>    to be on everyones mind, then we have to deliver!!!!  Anything less
>    will not be enough.
    
Agreed. DISTRIBUTED SYSTEMS THAT WORK!
								- Ian W.

    Someways back...'way back, I thought this particular note was dedicated
    to finding out 'How are you holding up?'.  I am a read-only noter
    and am usually very neutral however I am very disappointed in the
    direction and tone of this note....I was acually getting some level
    of solace and insight from the responses until the religious flak
    started.  And its really getting ugly......
    
    Can the mods write-lock this note and can we start afresh?  I'd
    be glad to open a new version of this note and then I'lll go
    back to being a read-only noter..I'm not religious,
    I'm not anti-religion so I, at least don't think I will present
    anything to inflame folks...              
    
    priscilla bryant
    

    Re: .184:
    
    If you ever wondered how a Belfast or a Beirut gets started, here we
    are. Apparently "holding up" includes being incredibly sensitive to
    statements on how the (ir)religious among us are holding up.  
    
    Those of you aren't either strongly agin' it or strongly for it
    (turning to a deity in this time of need): how can you read this stuff
    and still manage to keep your head and avoid entering the fray?  

O.K.  Please continue the Digital slogan discussion in the MARKETING conference,
ASIMOV::MARKETING.  Please continue the religion discussion in the appropriate
conference.

Thank you,

Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    Another way for me to cope is to build music boxes... Then I give them
    to others who need a way to cope (they ask me for them). When the music
    plays, they smile and the lead weights seem to lift from the shoulders.

    I guess music pulls you into another place, away from the turmoil.
    
    What kind of music do you listen to, to relax/cope. My preference is
    Country, Scotish bag pipes and now-a-days anything that can be found
    for music boxes......
    
    Peace..!
    
    Bob
    

    RE: .188 by TLE::SAVAGE 
    
    >Those of you aren't either strongly agin' it or strongly for it
    >(turning to a deity in this time of need): how can you read this stuff
    >and still manage to keep your head and avoid entering the fray?  

    God only knows.			   
    
    						|*)

    
    This note was started for people to be able to vent and share how
    they are getting along in a very stressful environment.  Although
    I don't appreciate it when people directly confront me with their
    beliefs religious or otherwise, I think that in the context of this
    note I can cut people a little more slack than I normally would since
    many of us are in pain and not exactly having the calm mental state
    necessary to ensure that their notes have I and not YOU statements.
    
    Given that I am apalled at the lack of tolerance shown here.  One
    person wrote a note that some decided to make a big deal of rather
    than understand that no matter how much he says he's OK that even to
    have written it is evidence enough that he's feeling the pain and loss
    and needs to express it in the only way he can.  He had no intention to
    proselytize.  Some of you decided to take it that way and beat the
    drum of YOUR agenda.  Frankly, *that* I find offensive.  I hope that
    when some of you are in pain you are lucky enough to have someone who
    will just sit silently and listen to you even if they find what and
    how you express your pain to be difficult for them to deal with. 
    
    In short, get a life, and please don't trash this note any further. 
    There are colleagues who are being shown to the door today and I
    want them to know that whether or not I agree with their personal
    beliefs that I am sorry that they are experiencing the pain that
    they are and that I'm willing to listen to them without judging them.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    

    As for me, how do I hold up thru these trying times ...
                  I try to stay in touch with friends personally, & via EMail,
                           ... & via phone/voicemail,
                                          ... and via VAXnotes ...
                                                 ... & by writing Limericks...
    
    ... and by waiting for another 27 notes to roll by in this string ...
    
    /s/ Dan, snarfer-in-waiting...
    

    "The most precious attribute that you can have as a citizen is the
    capacity to see that your truth is not the only truth, that your faith
    is not higher than your neighbor's, and that your sense of yourself
    need not be enriched by denigrating others who are different from you."

       				New York Times journalist, David K. Shipler
				1988 Commencement address, Middlebury College


    [NOTE: David Shipler is the Pulizer Prize-winning author of "Arab and
    Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land" While researching a story on
    the plight of Vietnamese-American children in 1974, he became friends
    with an 8-year old boy. The boy's mother expressed the wish that her
    son could go to the U.S. to get an education. Shipler adopted the boy.
    Jonathan Shipler was in the graduating class that his father
    addressed.]

    i find that at the end of the day and after i take my beauty nap
    i go the nice gyro place here in Nashua and have one or two gyro
    sandwiches with lots and lots of white sauce on them and just sit
    there snip of a large cook and eat the French fried too to be 
    a very relaxing to me and just like let it all go for about an
    hour or so, i think every one should try to take one hour of the day to
    do something like this, you dont have to eat gyros like i do offocurse
    but like just let your legs up and pull down and relax does wonders
    for you.

    i tried to share how i cope and relax i hope this helps.
    
    /nasser

    Other religions that have been mentioned:  
    
    1 - Deep breathing and counting and becoming calm ...
    	Buddhism
    
    2 - We're born, live & die without reason and there is nothing else ...
        Existentialism
    

Of course that should also include praying to the "other" appropriate gods

	Jordan
	Clapton
	Elvis...

	8^)

I still think this note is a great idea despite the ratholes...   
We do need a place to share our frustrations and anxieties...  

Digital's employees ARE still it's greatest resource despite Digital inability
to recognize or harness it.

	Bob 

    I am coping by going into my workshop and carving.....Those of you who 
read the woodworking file know that I enjoy woodcarving, whittling, making 
various small objects with sharp blades of all sorts.....hopefully without 
carving designs in my thumb while doing it.....

    Oh yes, I have done three fairly complex carvings in the past 4 weeks! 
One of which is my most complex Santa carving to date..... %^}

    What, me stressed??? Naw, I'm outta here tomorrow.....

    	Vic

    I'm so glad I'm outta here tomorrow.  This note is just one of the
    reasons why.  There is simply no respect for each other left.  None.
    
    Sorry Mr. Mod, but I've seen lots in 24 years and now I leave seeing this
    intentional hurting and attacking of each other.  Lincoln's Gettysburg
    address with reference to how any nation so divided can endure comes
    to mind.  Good luck, folks.  When you've done in each other, I hope
    you all can be happy.
    
    Can't we all get along?  Can't we all just get along?
    
    Mary
    
    

    snarf (sorry, Dan)

    'sOK, Dana...  I gots me eye on 2222.222 (thot you could do the
    math...? :-)
    
    and _in re_ .199, some of us have been trying to help...
    
    (I'll probably miss out on 2222.222 the rate things go here, can only
    note in the evenings in this file, busy during the daze...  So enjoy,
    whoever!)
    
    Dan
    

    
    Music - Anything from loud obnoxious, to some, HENDRIX in my car
    	    while I drive homeward at the end of the day. I find him
    	    very cathartic. A little George Winston, Peter Gabriel or
    	    Carly Simon with Dinner. Singing along with Raffi with
    	    my children seems to help as well.
    
    Running - I love to run, I find it a great form of meditation.
    	      Running through the woods of Lincoln not seeing any
    	      people. 
    
    Family - Spending time with my wife and 2 daughters doing anything.
    
    Jim C.
    

    Good friends, good friends and
    
    good friends!! NETfriends, MAILfriends.....you know who you are....
    
    
    And hopefully, a sense of humor that isn't totally tapped out.
    
    I think I put a note in this string earlier stating that I thought I
    was doing OK....goes to show how much I know!
    
    Nurse at local cardiac E/R:
    
    	Miss Reese, what activity were you engaged in when the chest pains
    	hit?
    
    ME:	Re-booting my VAXstation?????  Sorry Nasser, I didn't even get a
    	chance to start your on-the-job stress relievers :-)
    
    
    Seriously though, good friends at DEC and a very good friend (former
    DECcie) who after being called by my co-workers, got to the E/R and
    was there for 4 hours through some of the real scarey parts.  Same
    friend then went home and took care of my 4 poodles (one named
    Bonkers); cleaned my house, did laundry etc. helped another DECfriend
    get my car out of the parking lot and to my home.  The other DECfriend
    who took vacation time to pick me up when I was discharged and get me
    back home.
    
    Obviously, my note makes it clear (or at least I hope it does); that
    hopefully most of you will find outlets for the stress....if you don't
    find an outlet, the results can be devastating.
    
    Think I'll go put on the stero and listen to some B.B. King or
    Eric Clapton.....music usually relaxes me....
    
    K
    

re: .197

>Digital's employees ARE still it's greatest resource despite Digital inability
>to recognize or harness it.

I wonder if this is still so?  Seems to me that a demoralized, depressed,
demotivated, confused, unconfident workforce is not much of an asset.

    Yeah, but that makes it easier to let some more go!

    Want to thank my DECfriends that have listened to me via this
    file.  I have been notified that I will not be here after this Friday. 
    I was surprised I handled the "processing" so well, but I sincerely
    feel that networking with everyone like this prepared me.  Good
    luck to those remaining and continue to do great things . . . as I'm 
    not selling my stock.  Again thanks! 

    re: .163 - You are wrong and will someday discover that fact. You are
    doing yourself a diservice by drawing conclusions from circular
    reasoning. You should re-examinne your Apriori.

    Obviously I don't get much sleep since it found out (a while ago). 
    It's getting better (every other night) and I focus on productive tasks
    rather than just dwelling on current problems.
    
    The family is taking it hard and that consumes a lot of energy.
    
    We'll survive.

    I'll be gone after Friday as well. My wife and I were afraid about how
    the kids would take the news. We decided to present it as positively as
    possible, as a new opportunity. 

    We used a little object lesson with them. First, we gave everyone a
    piece of an orange to eat. Then, we gave each of them a piece of a
    lemon to eat, which tastes quite sour after the sweet orange. Then we
    asked them what can be done with a lemon to make it more pleasant. We
    decided that by adding sugar and water you can take lemons and make
    lemonade, so we made some lemonade. Then, I told them that sometimes
    life gives you a lemon, when what you were expecting was an orange, and
    that it was your responsibilitiy to make the best of it by turning it
    into lemonade with the right ingredients: a positive attitude and hard
    work.

    Result? We did that on Monday and the kids have taken things very well,
    as have my wife and I. There is life after DEC! This is a new
    opportunity! We're going to do our best to make the most of it!

    Best of luck to all of those who leave and to those who stay behind. 

    Rich Kotter

    Rich
    
    Sorry to hear you will be leaving the company. My thoughts are with
    you. Let me know if I can be of any help should you decide to come in
    this direction.
    
    Keith