Conference 7.286::digital

    Perhaps when Digital gets a consistent and usable method of dangling
    the darned thing from your clothing they might stand a chance of
    getting people to display them.
    
    The clamp I got from Digital to hang the badge constantly flips it
    upside down (it swivels) and renders it non-visible.  I've had to
    jerry-rig it with bent paperclips to get it at all usable.
    
    I alwyas keep it with me in a pocket, and if someone requests to see
    it, I show it to them.
    
    - Dave

    This is a cultural thing.  Here in Puerto Rico, where everybody knows
    everybody anyway, we all wear our badges all day long.  (Well, some of
    the women have them clipped to their purses, but they are displayed.)
    We don't have any of the "Please wear your badge" signs here either.
    
    On the other hand, I have walked in without mine and not been
    challenged.  I guess 16-17 years will do that for you :-)  I know that
    guards in the stateside installations I have visited are more demanding
    when people come in and that people are more relaxed once they are
    inside.
    
    That's life in small towns, I guess!
    
    Dick

RE: .1

>    Perhaps when Digital gets a consistent and usable method of dangling
>    the darned thing from your clothing they might stand a chance of
>    getting people to display them.

Let's see....I have seen and used 1) the plastic clip you mentioned, 
2) the magnetic pocket insert, 3) the shoelace-type string with 
Digital trademark, and 4) the chain which can also be used with a clip 
as can the "shoelace" - works for DECWORLD just fine...

How many more ways are you looking for?   I'm sure you could get a 
beltclip for under $2, or perhaps vecro strips for your ties ?
Why would it have to be consistent?  And what would _you_ consider 
usable?

How about this - maybe Security should do away with badges altogether 
and migrate to a retina-scan system, that way nobody would be 
inconvenienced?!?!?

FWIW, I don't always display mine either.

JB

    RE: .3
    
    Very simple.  
    
    1) Digital gives you a badge.
    
    2) Digital requests you display said badge somewhere on your person.
       (Most likely in a consistent location so that they can see the
       badge, rather than having people hang it off their shirt pocket,
       back pants pocket, belt, purse, etc, etc, etc.  There is not much
       point in requesting a badge be displayed if it won't be easily
       visible.)
    
    3) Digital provides a means of accomplishing this.  The means should be
       provided by Digital.  It makes no sense to have everyone duplicating 
       the same task.
    
    -or-
    
    2) Digital asks employees to carry badge and display badge when requested.
    
    3) No problem.
    
    - Dave

    
    I always have mine in a shirt pocket, or pants pocket. The clip is just 
    a pain in the back. I've found over the years that if I have the badge
    clipped to my cloths and I'm working on some equipment it always
    manages to come off. With a key card attached with the badge, its one
    ofg those items that you must carry, or you can't get in the
    labs here in LKG.
    
    

                     <<< Note 2106.5 by BAGELS::RIOPELLE >>>

    Re .5
>    manages to come off. With a key card attached with the badge, its one
>    ofg those items that you must carry, or you can't get in the
>    labs here in LKG.
    
    Don't you think it is dangerous for you to attach your key card to your
    badge ? What if you lose the 'set'. It will be very easy for the finder
    to intrude into your fecility.
    
    I always keep my key card and badge seperate.

>
>>    Perhaps when Digital gets a consistent and usable method of dangling
>>    the darned thing from your clothing they might stand a chance of
>>    getting people to display them.
>

 A lesson to new employees: they not to display them on their belts 
 just near the zipper..  One new employee who "we" were introducing to
 other members of the group suffered when he became very disturbed by 
 one guy who was looking at him intensly, the guy replied "oh don't worry
 I'm not trying to look at your b*llocks, just trying to read your badge 
 number !"


 jka

    I believe what the company policy is, is that Badges should be worn/
    displayed at all times when on Company Property, so I always wear mine.
    Unfortunately I also forget to take it off at times and find myself
    wearing the thing to church on sunday on my coat too!!!!!!!
    
    I remember a few years back though as I was walking into HLO that
    I'd noticed our Security Partners were rather selective about whom
    they asked to see Badges on, by that I mean they were terribly 
    inconsistant in that area. By that I mean some would and some wouldn't
    look for it. They were also rather inconsistant with how they'd ask
    to see one's badge. Some of the Guards would ask "May I see
    you Badge please?", others would come across with "Hey you gotta
    badge?". Sooooo, one day walking into the building the guard was
    distracted as I walked in. As I got into the building he used the
    "Hey...Gotta Badge" approach. I said, over my shoulder, "Yes" and
    kept walking. This fellow scrambles after me, hollaring all the way
    "You GOTTA BADGE?" and I kept saying "Yes" (It was on my coat but
    this guys behind me) and finally I stopped turned around and said
    "Would you like to see it?" Response "You betcha I wanna see it"
    sooo I said, "That's not what you asked is it?" Now the guy gets
    real upset about the whole thing and begins reading me the
    riot act about having to wear a badge etc. When he was done, I
    asked one more question. "Where's your badge?", of course he 
    didn't have his own!!!! But he did tell  me he left it at home!!!!
    So the consistantcy really should start with those people responsible
    for enforcement wouldn't you think?
    
    -- J  --

	Re .-1

	That guard probably doesn't spell check either !

>Let's see....I have seen and used 1) the plastic clip you mentioned, 

	I always wonder where on earth you are meant to clip these plastic
	clips.

>2) the magnetic pocket insert 

	I've not seen one of these, but my clothes don't have pockets anyway so
	they'd be out.

>3) the shoelace-type string with Digital trademark, 

	I've not seen one of these, I have seen the metal neck things, but they
	tangle up with my necklaces and break them, they also get tangled up in 
	the front of my dresses or blouses, and manage to undo the botton 
	keeping my decency intact.

> 4) the chain which can also be used with a clip 
>as can the "shoelace" - works for DECWORLD just fine...

	How?

>How many more ways are you looking for?   I'm sure you could get a 
>beltclip for under $2, 

	I don't wear belts

>or perhaps vecro strips for your ties ?

	I don't wear ties

>How about this - maybe Security should do away with badges altogether 
>and migrate to a retina-scan system, that way nobody would be 
>inconvenienced?!?!?

	You mean they would scan your eyes as you walk around the building?

	I don't mind showing these things at the door, its trying to find a 
	place to clip or hang them...........the only thing I can thing of is 
	to clip them on the hem of my dress, but then who would see it down 
	there!

	Heather

    I bought a white plastic clip with the DEC logo -- it looks like the
    business end of a dog leash with a key ring attached.  The metal clip
    on the badge has holes in it, and I ran the key ring through them,
    making it very hard to lose!
    
    It is very comfortable to wear attached to the belt loop of blue jeans,
    and the key card and badge are right on  hand for getting in and out of
    the lab.
    
    When I am required to dress up, I resort to the neck string approach -
    the metal clip does a number on dressy clothes.

>    When I am required to dress up, I resort to the neck string approach -
>    the metal clip does a number on dressy clothes.

	Right, the clip messes up clothes, if you can find somehere on the
	clothes to hang it in the first place.

	and the thing around your neck knocks open the buttons on dresses
	and blouses.

	Hetaher

    Employees should at least have a badge and know that they are required
    to produce it on demand by security personnel, etc.  Enforcement should
    be a matter for Security to deal with.  I notice that in my facility
    there is occasionally a 'Badge Day', where they ask to see everyone's
    badge to gain entry.

> I notice that in my facility
>    there is occasionally a 'Badge Day', where they ask to see everyone's
>    badge to gain entry.

	365 or 366 days a year in NIO. Do you mean to say that there are 
	days in your facility when a badge is not required to be shown to 
	gain entry?

			Alfred

    How about making a key card the only method of entry?  No
    key card, no entry, no excuses.  It would also be a way
    of telling who is in the building in case of an emergency,
    or maybe a log0in system to see if so-and-so is in today...
    

    
    I think we in DEC being in high technology, should use high tech.
    stuff to gain entry into the facilities, so instead of these key punch
    cards, which are old fashioned, why dont we use a voice recognition
    system? or a palm recognition system? you know, the one where you
    put your right hand on, and it reads it, and let you in.

    any one of these ways is better, because one can never forget to
    bring their hand to work like they can with a card keys and badges.

    this method also eliminates badges, because one cant gain entrance into
    the facilities without first going into the voice or palm system, and
    you dont need security people as much to keep watching every one going
    in and out and asking to see a badge.

    we are a high tech company, we should use high tech. methods !!

    the same 2 cents I used the other day..
    /Nasser

re:     <<< Note 2106.15 by BOOVX2::MANDILE "Riding off into the sunset..." >>>

>    How about making a key card the only method of entry?  No
>    key card, no entry, no excuses.  It would also be a way
>    of telling who is in the building in case of an emergency,
>    or maybe a log0in system to see if so-and-so is in today...
    
I can remember when key cards were first introduced, they were the only means
of gaining entry into my facility, at least using the door from the employees 
parking area. The rule was that everyone had to use the card and the was not
to be any 'tailgating'. That is entering while the door was opened for the 
person in front of you. What a joke! Imagine 10 people approaching the door:

1. first person inserts card into reader
2. door buzzes
3. first employee enters
4. wait for door to close
5. second person inserts card into reader
           .
           .
           .
           .
that lasted for about 2 days (if that long)

something else that I can not figure out is why in some facilities that
it is required that you use you key card to exit the building.

- George

re: .16

Yeah, that would be great!
I can see it now....

system that controls access to all facilities goes down, nobody cn get into
work. The answer is of course to get the system up, but, how if you cant get in?
Your ultimate catch-22.

(-:

- George

	We have a card-key access system than can't "tailgate" as its a
	floor-to-cieling turnstyle type thingy.

	There's not much of a queue problem even though 1,800 people use
	the building, there's a short queue when the buss arrives, but thats
	not for long.

	The reason you use it to exit as well, as its then very useful if we 
	have to leave in an emergency (when they're turned off and the 
	emergency exits can be used too) security can tell exactly whose in
	the building and needs to be accounted for.

	Heather	

>Yeah, that would be great!
>I can see it now....
>
>system that controls access to all facilities goes down, nobody cn get into
>work. The answer is of course to get the system up, but, how if you cant get in?
>Your ultimate catch-22.

    details, details, all what you have to do is have a full time
    resident engineer in the facilities available to restart the system 
    whenever it goes down. this eliminates your catch-22 deal.

    any way, if we build the system, it will not go down.

    sure, they'll be some technical difficulties somewhere, but we can
    overcome these with ingenuity solutions.

    /Nasser

RE:          <<< Note 2106.19 by SUBURB::THOMASH "The Devon Dumpling" >>>


>	The reason you use it to exit as well, as its then very useful if we 
>	have to leave in an emergency (when they're turned off and the 
>	emergency exits can be used too) security can tell exactly whose in
>	the building and needs to be accounted for.

Wow, if the building is burning each employee takes the time to feed their
keycard thru a reader before getting out of it so security can tell that they 
are not still in the building! Thats dedication to bureaucracy!

I know, I know, its not like that at all....

(-:

Please tell me that they really dont expect employees to do that. I've been in
REO where they have this type of setup that you describe and I couldn't help
but wonder what would happen if it became necessary for employees to get out
of the building in a hurry. I know that in a REAL emergency, the last thing that
I would want to do is feed my keycard into a reader, I'd want O_U_T!

- George

> REO where they have this type of setup that you describe and I couldn't help
    
    I used to work in REO, and judging by a number of evacuation 
    exercises, both planned and unplanned, the system seems to work fine.
    The turnstiles go to free-wheel mode. There are a number of other doors
    which can be opened in the event of a fire.
    
    I did wonder the same sort of thing as you when I first saw the system,
    but I would have no worries about it now.
    
    
    Nigel
    

    in tribute to /nasser...
    
    i think the answer to all of this is to get us all uniforms with our
    names on it.  also then there would be no notes conferences on suits.
    with our high tech we could differentiate between the haves and havenots.
    the haves would have vertical stripes and the havenots would wear
    horizontal ones.  field service, i mean customer service, i really mean
    dec service engineers could have a picture of a monitor on their back. 
    and our sales people would have a picture of bp in his 3 piece suit on
    their backs. (like their sales managers aren't!)
    
    i think this is a very ingenuous approach and would set us apart from
    all of our competitiors.  we would never have to identify to our
    customers who we were, they would just know it was a digital employee
    by what we wear.
    
    PS.  Nasser, we love you and we nominate you...would you accept our
    nomination please?
    
    PSS. (I'm glad I entered this at the end of my lunch-break, you can 
    just imagine what it would have sounded like if I wrote this before.)

re:      <<< Note 2106.22 by FRAIS::EDDF12::ROBERTS "nigel@ibmpcug.co.uk" >>>

So then how does security know who is/isn't still in the building as Heather
mentioned?

I can guess that the plan is that a rollcall is made once everybody is out
and then that is checked against the computer file of who has entered 
the building. I would not want to be the person responsible for doing that.
Hell, I'd quit before re-entering or staying in a burning building.

- george

    re -last
    
    And everyone will have to sacrifice themselves at the age of 30!
    
    Wait! No, that was just a movie!
    
    
    -sandy
    

    ref .23

    >PS.  Nasser, we love you and we nominate you...would you accept our
    >nomination please?

    Thank you from the bottoms of my deep heart for the confidence bestowed 
    on me, Iam delighted to accept the nominations, I hope to serve and 
    adhere, I know the task at hand is hard and upholding, but with your 
    backing and support we can overcome, I'll be your voice in the dark 
    allies and together united we can carry the vision to its ultimate 
    conclusions.

    it is emotions like this that keep my faith in DEC in high elevations.

    by the way, what is it exactly Iam being nominated for?

    thank you,
    /Nasser

re:     <<< Note 2106.26 by STAR::ABBASI "Spell checking is a family value" >>>

>    by the way, what is it exactly Iam being nominated for?

I don't know, but you'd better be a little more careful with your spell
checking ("Iam" indeed!), particularly if spell checking is a family value.

I once tried spell checking, but I didn't inhale.

re:     <<< Note 2106.26 by STAR::ABBASI "Spell checking is a family value" >>>

>    Thank you from the bottoms of my deep heart for the confidence bestowed 
>    on me, Iam delighted to accept the nominations, I hope to serve and 
>    adhere, I know the task at hand is hard and upholding, but with your 
>    backing and support we can overcome, I'll be your voice in the dark 
>    allies and together united we can carry the vision to its ultimate 
>    conclusions.

I hate to bust your balloons Nassar but, you can not accept a nomination
when it hasn't been seconded yet!

Furthermore, if you can't figure out wart it is that your nominated four
then I question weather yu have any vision that you can conclude.

- George

    Yes, Al.  I'd guess that I really only need a badge for entry about
    three times a year.  Our facility receives lots of customers and third
    party vendors, so a complete card-entry system isn't practical.
    
    Mark
    
    P.S. to all those spelling checkers.  What dictionary are y'all using? 
    I only have "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language",
    the "New Dell Edition".  Is that acceptable in this conference?

>"The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language"

Lies! Lies!  It's the American Heritage Dictionary of
the American Language, no matter what it claims on the cover.

	
	Wore my original badge every day except for a few months when Digital
	changed the old square Dk blue badges to Lt blue rectangular badges.  
	We were asked to turn in the old badges but I kept mine yet did not 
	wear it untill I called Corporate Sercurity and they said it was ok 
	to wear it but it would not be accepted for entrance to a DEC facility.
	I did turn in the Lt Blue one for the current picture badges but still
	only wear the old one every day.

	I show the new one but only wear the old one except in a few sites
	I was requested to wear the picture badge which I did.  So I go around
	with two badges as I will not remove the old one.

	Still proud I'm working at Digital and working hard to get us all
	back in shape.

	dick
	

>Our facility receives lots of customers and third party vendors, so a complete 
>card-entry system isn't practical.

All the more reason for a secure system. Visitors would receive a visitors
cardkey, the number of which would be recorded against their name in the
visitors book. This has been the case at all UK facilities I've visited for
a number of years.

Dave.

>So then how does security know who is/isn't still in the building as Heather
>mentioned?


You swipe the card and use the turnstile on the way in and out.


In an emergency you use the emergency exits with no turnstiles, if you do use
the turnstiles, they freewheel.

You congregate in your colour coded place, and your fire warden checks you are
there - if in doubt they can check back with the list.

We should evacuate 1,800 people in 2 minutes. If we don't, we have more regular
practices until we do.	

Heather

	Here at Solent in the UK we have the same kind of turnstyle
	card key access as Reading and the "free-wheeling" when there 
	is an emergency and it does work well.  Of course AFTER the
	emergency there long delays as everyone cardkeys back in
	through the turnstyles.

	But the card-key entry list is NOT used as the fire check.
	Employees gather in zones outside and fire wardens report to 
	their zone controller that the area in the bulding they are 
	responsible for is either clear of employees or could not
	be checked.  The zone controller reports this to a central
	co-ordinator by walkie-talkie and this co-ordinator informs
	the fire chief.  If an area could not be checked the fire
	services do the checking.

	I don't know if this is the system which was implemented at
	the Crescent which had a fire...?  I know it was reported
	that the Fire Chief there was pleased that he was informed
	so promptly that the building WAS clear.

	Cathy

    Why not get really high tech and go to a smart card that is monitored
    by IR and satelite link up?  That way, everyone and anyone would know
    where you were (in the building)at all times and if you were even in
    the building.
    
    Is too far fetched?  I heard something about a system similar to this
    that was being trial test somewhere in Europe about a year or so ago
    (NOT in a DEC site).
    
    Reg.

    At Digital Japan HQ, everyone takes their badge off and leaves it at
    work when they go home.  People have even asked me -- in all sincerety
    -- while outside the office (but in the same building complex), "Why are
    you wearing your badge?" 
    
    

    RE:.35
    
    Reg:
    
    I read that this Hi-Tech device is being usually to monitor certain
    convicts from their homes, mainly minor offenders like DWI's, etc.
    The judge happens to sentence the individual to remain under 'house
    arrest' and if they leave their premises, the electronic device lets
    someone at a control panel know and they alert the police to pick up
    the individual for parole violation.
    
    The possibilities at work are endless.  This monitor could be
    programmed to detect brain wave movements (someone falling asleep),
    using an illegal substances, thought patterns, etc.
    
    Tongue halfway in cheek!
    
    Ron

re .37

>>    I read that this Hi-Tech device is being usually to monitor certain
>>    convicts from their homes, mainly minor offenders like DWI's, etc.
>>    The judge happens to sentence the individual to remain under 'house
>>    arrest' and if they leave their premises, the electronic device lets
>>    someone at a control panel know and they alert the police to pick up
>>    the individual for parole violation.


There was a story in a local newspaper sometime in the past few weeks, where
the police stopped a car for some offense. One of the passengers in the car
was wearing one of these "home-arrest" thingies.

Either they don't work as well as they say, or the monitoring/enforcement
is lacking.

Bob.

.35 sounds like the April Fools joke that circulated here at Spit Brook
a couple of years ago.

    re .35
    
    Reg is right.  One company is Olivetti, using IR badge locators on
    a few key employees on a trial basis.  I believe I read this in
    Business Week a month or two ago.
    
    Dave
    

RE: .10 (yes, I know I'm slow)


>        I always wonder where on earth you are meant to clip these plastic
>        clips.

I've seen them clipped to shirt sleeves (short), purse/handbag straps, 
collars (as in T-shirt), front of shirt (button down shirts), 
waistbands of pants, skirts (no belts required!),  belt loops of 
pants, jumpsuits, pockets (shirt or pants), lapels of business suits, 
sweaters, and even clipped onto necklaces...

>>3) the shoelace-type string with Digital trademark, 
>
>        I've not seen one of these, I have seen the metal neck things, but they
>        tangle up with my necklaces and break them, they also get tangled up in 
>        the front of my dresses or blouses, and manage to undo the botton 
>        keeping my decency intact.
>
>> 4) the chain which can also be used with a clip 
>>as can the "shoelace" - works for DECWORLD just fine...
>
>        How?

Well, looking at my DECWORLD badge, the chain goes through the plastic 
clip, easily detachable for untangling, etc.  The chain goes around 
the neck.  Everyone at DECWORLD (meaning staff and support folks) 
seemed to be able to cope with these just fine, the chain seemed the 
most popular method.  I never noticed and broken necklaces lying 
around nor did I see any ladies with their decency not intact (as a 
result of wearing the badge, I mean ;-) )

>>How about this - maybe Security should do away with badges altogether 
>>and migrate to a retina-scan system, that way nobody would be 
>>inconvenienced?!?!?
>
>        You mean they would scan your eyes as you walk around the building?

Umm, that's the idea.  I'm sure a lot of these high-tech solutions 
have their drawbacks, though, from health concerns to cost.  Let's not 
forget, retina scanners or palm readers don't exactly generate 
revenue.

IMHO, if folks wanted to display their badges, THEY WOULD, regardless 
of whether or not mother DEC provided them with clips, 
pocket-protectors, chains, etc..   On the other hand, there never 
seems to be a shortage of excuses not to, or perhaps it just makes 
everyone feel better to have something else to whine about.

JB

...talking about smart cards, I was watching an Aussie science show recently 
(Beyond 2000) that had interesting story about a test site at Olivetti, in the UK I 
believe. Anyway these badges they wore allowed infrared sensors all over the 
building to know the whereabouts of any badge wearer, except in the toilet :^)

They had some interesting uses for this system. First off the receptionist knew 
where everybody was by looking at an electronic list of a person's location and the 
list automatically supplied the number of the nearest extension to that location, 
also the PABX would route your calls to that extension. Secondly a sensor on a 
door could decide if you are allowed access to the area and unlock the door as you 
approached, no more swiping of cards. Thirdly they had the system set up so that if 
you left your office the sensor would notice this and automatically blank your 
terminal screen and activate the password protect and even turn the lights out. 

...there were a few other implementations that I forget now.

Some of the people at the site were interviewed and it seemed all loved the system 
and could not live without it, some even mentioned going back home on a morning 
that they had forgotten to bring the card into work. Also if somebody disliked the 
idea they were not obliged to wear the card. Finally, it was mentioned that the 
system did not log the various events for more than 1 day, so there were no long 
term records kept of each users whereabouts

Big brother or just a useful tool for the 90's and beyond?

Richard
 

...talking about smart cards, I was watching an Aussie science show recently
(Beyond 2000) that had interesting story about a test site at Olivetti, in the
UK I believe. Anyway these badges they wore allowed infrared sensors all over
the building to know the whereabouts of any badge wearer, except in the toilet
:^) 

They had some interesting uses for this system. First off the receptionist knew
where everybody was by looking at an electronic list of a person's location and
the list automatically supplied the number of the nearest extension to that
location, also the PABX would route your calls to that extension. Secondly a
sensor on a door could decide if you are allowed access to the area and unlock
the door as you approached, no more swiping of cards. Thirdly they had the
system set up so that if you left your office the sensor would notice this and
automatically blank your terminal screen and activate the password protect and
even turn the lights out. 

...there were a few other implementations that I forget now.

Some of the people at the site were interviewed and it seemed all loved the
system and could not live without it, some even mentioned going back home on a
morning that they had forgotten to bring the card into work. Also if somebody
disliked the idea they were not obliged to wear the card. Finally, it was
mentioned that the system did not log the various events for more than 1 day,
so there were no long term records kept of each users whereabouts 

Big brother or just a useful tool for the 90's and beyond?

Richard
 

>Anyway these badges they wore allowed infrared sensors all over
>the building to know the whereabouts of any badge wearer, except in the toilet
>:^) 

    But, But, If they look for the badge wearer all over the place and they
    cant find the badge wearer but they know they are in the building, and 
    since the only place that the sensor does not look is in the toilet, then 
    they will therefore know that they are in the toilet !

    I really would not like the idea of some infrared light following me
    thought the work facilities, I'll get nervous and will start wearing
    dark classes to come to work, plus isn't infrared kinda bad for you too?

    /Nasser

    re .35:
    
    You probably mean GPS, the Global Positioning System, which is used
    already e.g. for locating trucks. The remote vehicles have a small
    satellite dish antenna, - how would you do that for individuals? - And
    then, it is no longer, it shouldn't be any longer a corporate issue,
    but... why not a replacement for today's identity cards, passport,
    etc.?

>I've seen them clipped to shirt sleeves (short), 

I would have thought that would be uncomfortable, especially when on a keyboard
on the few short sleeve dresses and blouses I have I don't think the materiel 
would handle the clip. I

>purse/handbag straps, 

I usually just have a wallet, but even if I have a handbag its either in my
breifcase or in my drawer, I don't carry it around when I walk around the 
office.

>collars (as in T-shirt), 

I don't wear t-shirts to work.

>front of shirt (button down shirts), 

The blouses I have that have buttons would undo if I put the weight of a
badge on them, just knocking them with the thing around the neck does this, and
I'm also not sure that the materiel would be robust enough - and I hate to think
of the comments I would get with a badge pinned to my cleavage.

>waistbands of pants, skirts (no belts required!),  

I assume pants are trousers, (otherwise this would be most uncomfortable!!!!!)
which I don't wear to work. The blouses I wear with skirts are loose and would 
cover any badge I had at my waist

>belt loops of pants, jumpsuits, pockets (shirt or pants), lapels of business 
suits, 

I don't wear belts or have loops, my dresses/blouses/skirts don't have pockets,
and when I wear a jacket to work it would be hanging on the coathanger, I do 
not wear it around the building

>sweaters, 
 
I don't wear sweaters to work

>and even clipped onto necklaces...

Yuck, the though of that makes me feel like choking, I don't think I could have
one hanging that close to my throat.

>
>> 4) the chain which can also be used with a clip 
>>as can the "shoelace" - works for DECWORLD just fine...
>
>        How?

>Well, looking at my DECWORLD badge, the chain goes through the plastic 
>clip, easily detachable for untangling, etc.  The chain goes around 
>the neck.  Everyone at DECWORLD (meaning staff and support folks) 
>seemed to be able to cope with these just fine, the chain seemed the 
>most popular method.  I never noticed and broken necklaces lying 
>around nor did I see any ladies with their decency not intact (as a 
>result of wearing the badge, I mean ;-) )

	I did have a neck chain, and it does undo the buttons on blouses
	and my dresses, after a few comments, I stopped wearing it like this.


	Anyway, as I can't get into the builing without either my picture
	badge or swipe cars, or someone else with a picture badge signing me in,
	I'm not surprised that no-one encourages us to actually wear the badges
	at work.
	And I hope it stays this way.

	Heather

 The other issue must be about wearing your badge too much !!

 At a DECus symposisum last week the amount of people who were walking 
 around outside the Palais hall with their DECus badges still clinging
 to their pockets was amazing. They were wearing them anywhere and 
 at all times of the day and night.

  One night walking back to my hotel which was located in the *active* 
 part of the Cannes, I saw a 'lady of night' taking her new customer to 
 where ever they go to do what ever they do... but I noticed that he was
 still wearing his DECus badge !! Maybe he wore it during his session also ?

 jka


 

    >> IMHO, if folks wanted to display their badges, THEY WOULD, regardless 
    >> of whether or not mother DEC provided them with clips, 
    >> pocket-protectors, chains, etc..   On the other hand, there never 
    >> seems to be a shortage of excuses not to, or perhaps it just makes 
    >> everyone feel better to have something else to whine about.
    
    REALLY!!  With all the real problems this company is facing, you'd
    think there were more important things for folks to be whining about
    than how (or whether) they were going to wear their badges.
    
    It really ain't that much of a problem ... why don't we focus our
    energy on things that might mean the difference between whether or
    not we have a job here next year?
    
    ... Bob

    re: .47
    
    Yes, I remember when we used to chastise each other for wearing a badge
    when we went out to lunch.
    
    Mark

When I worked for a large defense contractor, the security office posted signs
showing a worker with a badge, in the cross-hairs of a gunsight, with a line
that said:

           "Don't be a target!  Remove your badge in public"

It was pretty effective...

Bob

re .50

Jeez, are customers *that* upset about DEC software quality
and delivery schedules?

    
    One little habit I picked up while in the army: if someone challenges
    me for an ID or badge, I always challenge them in return. It's
    perfectly legal, and in some cases, required. 
    
    I've worked in DEC facilities (Hudson NH) where there was no guard. 
    Employees entered the building with a keycard if they came in the side 
    entrance, or just walked in thruough the front door. A secretary would
    ask those that she didn't recognize to show a badge. Supposedly, the
    keycards were to be used to exit, but the door could be opened without
    them. 
    
    On a few occasions, my supervisor questioned me about overtime and
    Saturday hours (I found that he was using keycard data from security as
    a defacto "punch clock", even though this was not supposed to be done).
    I had to remind him that everybody, including him, never "carded" out.

>I suppose I could stop by the orthodontisist's office for a fresh supply.
>After all the payments on the time-share he was able to make with the
>money I paid him over the years, I oughta be able to get fifteen cents
>worth of rubber bands out of him, right?

    dont count on it, doctors dont get rich by giving out 15 cents here
    and there.

    I went to this doctor the other day through the Harvard plan, i paid
    my $3 dollars and got in, he send me to a different doctors outside,
    the whole thing thing was about a stupid little things, it took this
    second Dr no more that 10 seconds to tell me Iam ok, i swear it was
    no more than 10 seconds, i watched the big clock on the wall, then
    i was out to street again, you know that he charged the insurance for
    $60 dollars! and he now send me a bill in addition for $3 dollars too!

    even though i already paid the three dollars for the Harvard Dr in
    first place the second Dr still wants $3 more dollars on top of the 
    $60 they allready charge the health insurance !!!

    they are so greedy these doctors i say.

    sorry if iam starting a new rat hole now. i dont mean too.

    /Nasser

    	Doctors only want their $3 co-payments if you dont spell-check.

    re .55
    
    You pays your dues, you get to play. 4 years of college, med school,
    internship and waiting on furriners who cannot even speak our language
    properly.  :-)
    
    Then you get to charge outlandish fees. All that and they STILL don't
    know what they are doing for sure; they readily admit that they are
    only practicing medicine. :-)  :-)
    
    Then again, our way hemmorages $100 million per month.
    
    I am a rotten speller, spell checker just matches my previously saved
    misspelled words.
    
    Got to go to work,
    
    Dave 

I just started working for Digital and I was never told
anything about the badges. All I knew is that 
everyone had one, and that I was getting one, 
but there was no mention what the policy was with them.

Is there a document somewhere which states what the
badges are for and was the correct way to use them
is?

-- Eric

    Welcome boards Eric, me being an old timer (3 years, 1 month), I can
    speak from experience on DEC policy on this aspect, you are supposed
    to wear your badge on you all time while in the facilities, you are
    supposed to present it when asked to, if you come in and forget to
    bring it with you, the guard will give you a temp. one to display on
    you, and you are supposed to give the temp. badge back before you leave
    at the end of the day.

    have fun.

    /Nasser

My faith in human nature's been restored, Nasser - I stopped by the old
orthodontist's office today and got, free for the askin', *two*, count
'em, -two- packages of the little bitty rubber bands.

-Jack

RE: .58

>Is there a document somewhere which states what the
>badges are for and was the correct way to use them
>is?

Welcome!
Yes.  It's in VTX SECURITY_POLICY.   I think 6 is the index, type B 
for Badge, and it's all in there.  

-JB

Re .47:

>  One night walking back to my hotel which was located in the *active* 
> part of the Cannes, I saw a 'lady of night' taking her new customer to 
> where ever they go to do what ever they do... but I noticed that he was
> still wearing his DECus badge !! Maybe he wore it during his session also ?

No, he probably only had it on long enough to secure the special DECUS rate.
				/AHM

	I received the latest DECWORLD magazine over the week end. On the
	back cover is a picture of Bob Palmer and Ken Olsen talking. I
	noticed that Bob Palmer was wearing his badge. 

			Alfred 

    re: .63
    
    Why would Bob Palmer be wearing Ken Olsen's badge?
    
    8-).

    
    re: .64
    
    Cuz he's number 1 now....
    
    

    So what IS Palmer's badge number, anyway?

RE:            <<< Note 2106.66 by MU::PORTER "savage pencil" >>>

>>    So what IS Palmer's badge number, anyway?

     Well, let's narrow it a bit.  According to the news reports, he's only been
a DECcie for six or seven years.  That indicates that his badge number would be
on the high end of the 100,000 - 200,000 range.

     Ah, forget deduction...somebody break into ELF!

                                      Greg

    I just looked at ELF, and hold and be hold, you can actually see
    Bob Palmer right there, there is even a phone number and a node
    name, you can actually call him on the phone just like that !

    by the way, they have two entries for him, one the CEO one, and what 
    looks like the old entry before he became our CEO, when he was in sales 
    support,  (I though Bob Palmer was in Hardware not in sales support 
    before?) , any way, someone should really correct this.

    /nasser

    re.68 Umm, Nasser, neither 'Bob' nor 'Palmer' are rare names. 
    DEC may well have more than one employee with that name combi-
    nation.

    Okay, now you've posted his badge number, how about his Cost Centre?
    
    JK
    
    
    p.s. Not that I need to requisition anything, you understand... (-:
    (-:

        Name                      | Badge  |   Phone      |  CC | Facility
    
    ROBERT B PALMER               | 188314 | DTN 223-6600 | 644 |  MLO
    

       
       
       RE: .70
       
       That would put him somewhere in Feb. or Mar. of '86........
       
       
       			->Jay (188329, hired in HLO 3-3-86)

    BP was the VP in HLO before he ascended to MLO.

You can't go by badge number.  My number is significantly lower than BP's, and 
I was hired in 1987.   From what I heard, they somehow 'freed' up badge numbers
and some of us relative 'newcomers' have lower badge numbers than some old timers.

JD

    Around when they approached the 100,000 badge number (70,80,90 ?) they
    started assigning blocks, instead of generating the numbers centrally.
    I have a 1369xx and some one else, hired under the same block three
    years later is only off by 25.
    
    Also there are people in the 129xxx who are years my junior, without
    reassignment.
    

Badge numbers are allocated by block to a location.
i.e. location XXX will be assigned the block 188xxx (don't know exactly what
the granularity is), and that location can then assign any number in that block
without having to request a unique number from some corporate system for each
new employee hired.  It was a substantial savings in the mid-1980s when
we were hiring lots of folks.

How do I know about this?
It seems that when I was hired in (1986), the SAME BLOCK was allocated to my
location and some other location (reputedly in France, but I don't know).

We apparently lost the coin-toss, and about 30 of us had our badge numbers
CHANGED.  Now, there is ONE field in the databases which CAN NOT be modified: 
Badge number...  So, administratively, we were "terminated" and "re-hired".
What a mess!  One of my co-workers was told by Hancock that he was denied
coverage since he was "no longer an employee" for almost a year afterward!

Kevin Farlee

       
       
       
       RE: .75
       
       Yes, but (don't you just love that statement). HLO had the 188XXX
       block at that time. I also remember there being ~20 people in
       the same orientation that I was at in March, so....draw your
       own conclusions.
       
       					->Jay

    I think this talk about blocks of number makes sense, i was hired
    in august '89, and i dont think i've seen anyone with higher
    badge number than me ;-( , i must have the highest badge number in DEC,
    mine is 314721, this is too high, is there is a way to replace the
    badge number you get with a smaller number once one gets available?

    or is this against the rules?

    /nasser
    who_is_concerned_about_his_high_badge_number_and_would_like_a_smaller_one
    

                Actually, this sequential/block allocation of badge
        numbers goes back a lot further than any of you mentioned! I was
        hired back in Sept of '73 (not a typo!) and at that time they
        were just starting the block allocation scheme. Any badge number
        that starts with a number higher than 26000 (again not a typo)
        was probably issued out of a block allocation. This was forced by
        the proliferation of plants that was just starting to really
        explode around that time period. 
                
                /s/     Bob B# 25350

    Actually, earlier than 26000
    
    I originally joined in 1971 (also not a typo!), working for DEC UK. The
    UK was allocated the 13xxx block, so my badge number was 13255.
    
    (Personnel, which was one person - Wendy Mather - in those days -
    mistyped the badge and left the leading "1" off - I still have the
    resulting 4-digit badge as a souvenir. But that's another story.)
    
    D (now 36069, 'cos I left, and came back after just over a year).

    >D (now 36069, 'cos I left, and came back after just over a year).
    
    Well now a days when you leave, you NEVER come back. 8^(
    
                                 Rich

    .-1

    you can come back , but you need at least a VP to sign you in
    to be able to get in DEC again. 
    
    I knew someone who did this and they told me that it had to go all
    the way up to a big VP to sign in for them to come back.
    
    this was 3 years ago, dont know if the law changed since, check
    with your personnel dept. for current procedures regarding this.

    /nasser

    Nasser,
    
    At the most your badge # is the second highest in DEC...a sect in this
    office has a 316xxx badge #!!! Does it make you any happier to know
    that??? Probably not, so...NEVERMIND!!!
    
    :) :) :)
    
    Marc

    nasser, 
    
    i understand that 666 was never allocated...would suit you just fine 
    :-)

    .-1

    >i understand that 666 was never allocated...would suit you just fine 

    great! thanks for the tip, i'll go talk to the personnel dept. about 
    getting it and....humm.....personnel dept?...humm...never mind...i think 
    i just changed my mind about this whole thing, iam quit happy with my badge
    number right now.....really iam...

    

    >> D (now 36069, 'cos I left, and came back after just over a year).
    
    I thought that you could get your old badge number when you come
    back, if you specifically ask for it (according to P&P, anyway),
    because they're not re-used when people leave.  Oh well, you've
    probably grown more accustomed to your "new" one after all these
    years!
    
    Chris