Conference 7.286::digital

>    Is it contrary to any policy (if so, which one) to forward Electronic
>    MAIL messages without the originator's permission?
    
    No. As long as the author's name is attached and any security notations
    are adhered to E-mail may be forwarded.
    
>    Surely it is against policy (as opposed to courtesy) to forward MAIL
>    without asking permission?
    
    Nope. Should it be? I don't think so.
    
>    As a silly example, a MAIL message could be forwarded to an @WORLD
>    distribution (as long as the originator's name was included) which is
>    surely more heinous than entering it into a NOTES conference?
    
    The largest mailing list I've had was just over 3300 names. I suspect
    more people will see this note then that. The biggest difference
    between a mailing list and a Notes conference is that the names of the
    people who get the mail is known. The same can not be said about Notes.
    
    			Alfred
    
    

    re .-1 and "@WORLD"
    
>   The largest mailing list I've had was just over 3300 names. I suspect
>   more people will see this note then that. The biggest difference
>   between a mailing list and a Notes conference is that the names of the
>   people who get the mail is known. The same can not be said about Notes.
    
    At TANDEM, they still have a "@TANDEM" which is every employee, top
    to bottom. I seem to remember something around 10,000 names.

    /petes

>    At TANDEM, they still have a "@TANDEM" which is every employee, top
>    to bottom. I seem to remember something around 10,000 names.

    Yes you can do that at small companies. Digital is about an order of
    magnitude larger though. And there is no @DIGITAL.DIS.

    			Alfred

    Yes you can do that at small companies. Digital is about an order of
    magnitude larger though. And there is no @DIGITAL.DIS.

I could generate one from the ELF database in a few hours (if I was
given direct access to the database) or days (if I had to use the
VTX interface).

Martin.

    a nit:
    
    Livewire (VTX) isn't quite the same as mail, just as a newspaper
    isn't the same as paper mail. Sending a mail usually guarantees an
    audience, VTX doesn't.

    Also, will the livewire folkes accept and display any kind of
    random message from j-random employee (like a mail distrubution
    list will)?

    Re: .1
    
    Alfred,
    
    Thanks for your response!
    
    So it seems as though there is no POLICY against a MAIL forward.  This
    seems inconsistent (so what else is new!).
    
    As to your statement as follows:
    
    >                                           The biggest difference
    > between a mailing list and a Notes conference is that the names of the
    > people who get the mail is known. The same can not be said about Notes.
     
    Most forwarded MAIL message I receive have distributions like "@xyz". 
    It would take the skills and persistence of a Sherlock Holmes to
    discover the names behind every ".dis" file - plus what guarantee is
    there that one of the forwarders didn't amend the file subsequent to
    the transmission?  And there may not be an "audit trail" to find out
    who did receive the message.
    
    Ah well!
    
    Mike

	RE: .7 True a reciever does not know who else recieved the mail
	but they do know who sent it. At various times in the past I've
	been quite successful at tracking down originators of mailings.
	This can generally be done with the request that corrected news
	be sent down the same paths as the first message. It's much easier
	then with Notes. Of course the intent of the policy statement that
	the name of an author must be retained in both forwardings and
	Notes postings is to short cut the need for detective work.

			Alfred

Re: earlier: (paraphrased)
   <	There's no such thing as DIGITAL.DIS

No, but there IS a close appoximation, and that's a process used by Corporate
Telecom, which sends messages out to area routers which in turn gets distributed
to "ALL USERS AT NODE xxxxx".  Couple of comments, though:
	This tends to be mainly an ALL-IN-1 mailing, so it misses a WHOLE LOT
		of people, probably including many readers of this conference.
	Even if it DID get to everyone, it's still not a specific list of
		recipients by name.

On another topic:  to me, there's a big difference in forwarding mail to a huge
list (impolite and injudicious perhaps) and posting in a NOTES conference.  In
the mail case, at least the recipients are defined, however loosely, and in
most cases are restricted to legitimate E-net accounts (disregarding the 
possibility of sending mail via gateays to other external networks). The mail
is sent at a given point in time.

Posting into a conference, on the other hand, makes it available forever, to be
read by anyone, including someone who might gain access to the network. I 
consider the security risk of someone reading a notes conference to be far
greater than the risk of someone getting information via mail, so I have no
problem with what's been described earlier as an "inconsistency". 

	/Marvin

    We've looked at this topic before.  See 842 "Digital has a crisis in
    electronic communication"

    Basically, both errors happen:

    (1) A message intended for a limited audience (ie a mailing list or
    being written into a restricted membership VAX Notes Conference)
    receives a much wider audience than was intended by the author.

    (2) A message intended for "all employees", "please pass this on to all
    your reports", or Livewire, is in fact, not see by all employees.

    The source of problem 1, is that a recipient for a mail message has a
    "FORWARD" command and doesn't have "PLEASE SUGGEST TO THE ORIGINATING
    AUTHOR THAT THIS MESSAGE OUGHT TO HAVE WIDER DISTRIBUTION" command.

    Since the forward command is far more convenient, it is used more often
    than a message back to the author.

    My personal practice and advice is to take care in either the content
    or the distribution list, and usually both. Expect your clear and
    concise criticism of any Digital project to be forwarded immediately to
    the people criticized.  Even my managers play that game with me, so I
    pull my punches.

    The source of problem 2 has been a greater concern to me.  It's either
    ignorance or arrogance that has the six figure crowd thinking that
    there's any ability in this company to effectively and _uniformly_
    communicate messages to all employees.  I'm speaking here out of a
    concern for many alienated customer services employees and even sales
    reps who, when it comes to access to electronic mail, VTX, and Notes,
    they've been told that the company can't afford it.  Maybe not, so
    maybe we need that 19th Century relic, the formal official notice board
    in the leading vendor of networked computer systems.

    My interpretation of the policy in words that are more clear than the
    policy itself.

    (1) By policy, mail can be forwarded without seeking permission of the
    original author.  Such forwarding must retain the identity of the
    original author.  By courtesy, permission should be sought.

    By policy, mail cannot be written into a VAX Notes Conference without
    the message containing these words "All Employees" or "Wide
    Distribution" or without seeking and obtaining the permission of the
    original author.

    (2) By policy, any note written into a VAX Notes Conference without
    restricted membership can be written into any VAX Notes Conference or
    mailed. The note must retain the original author, conference and note
    identification.  By courtesy, permission should be sought.
    
    This is probably a surprise to most people, but I believe this is the
    correct interpretation of the policy.

re .10 

>    (2) A message intended for "all employees", "please pass this on to all
>    your reports", or Livewire, is in fact, not see by all employees.

>    The source of problem 2 has been a greater concern to me.  It's either
>    ignorance or arrogance that has the six figure crowd thinking that
>    there's any ability in this company to effectively and _uniformly_
>    communicate messages to all employees.  I'm speaking here out of a
>    concern for many alienated customer services employees and even sales
>    reps who, when it comes to access to electronic mail, VTX, and Notes,
>    they've been told that the company can't afford it.  
    
    I'd be inclined to guess it's a lack of real concern or desire to
    to so. I think _every employee_ should have access to those media. 
    How does upper management expect, for instance, DELTA_IDEAS to
    work when so many employees have no access to it ?
    
    It seems shameful to me that a company with the capability to
    set the standard for in-house communication fails to do so - a
    case of the 'cobbler's children having no shoes.'

re .11 
    
>   It seems shameful to me that a company with the capability to
>   set the standard for in-house communication fails to do so - a
>   case of the 'cobbler's children having no shoes.'

I've been making the case in our local notes file about this. Right now,
MTS routing (ALL-IN-1 corporate E-mail <-> VAXmail) is done as a favor
in our area; heavier use (i.e., "official" use) would probably incur an
internal cost-per-employee price. On the other hand, if "distribute to all"
really worked, you could get notices in a timely manner. (And probably save
some disk space from not having memos multiply as they go down the chain.)

That was an interesting question about LIVE WIRE - I wonder, too, if that's
the "send to @DIGITAL.DIS".

/Peters

    Speaking for DELTA - we welcome ideas in any form, yes even mailed, if
    you have no access to a terminal.  We are a very efficient and
    automated organization and the internal network supports us well.
    But I will make a committment that every idea that is sent to us will 
    be handled.  We have typed in ideas before, we have worked with folks
    who have used other peoples terminals. 
                                        
    This program is for every Digital employee, not just those with
    terminals. 
    
    			Our Mail Address is
    	
    			IDEAS CENTRAL
    			OGO1-2/P04