Conference 7.286::digital

    I'm not a vegie but I would greatly prefer something along the lines
    of a cheese pack to the turkey.

.0>                                                     ...The practice
.0> of giving free turkeys to all employees is nice and is appreciated.
                              ---
    WRONG!  Apparently, only employees in the New England area get these
    wonderful turkeys.  I would love one of these turkeys.  I personally
    get sick and tired of the annual b*tching about why don't they give
    us something else, etc.  I guess the more you get, the more you
    want...
    
    Perry_who_wouldn't_mind_a_turkey_or_a_cheee_basket

        re .2
        
        Hear, hear...
        
        We don't get Xmas Turkeys, we do not have access to the stock
        plan, we do not have in-house cafeterias, we do not have a
        credit union, our employee purchase plan stinks.
        
        Quit ya bitching, and negotiate with your next door neighbor
        or whoever to buy your turkey. Then you can take the money
        and spend it on whatever you like.
        
        q
        

    .2>I personally get sick and tired of the annual b*tching about
    .2>why don't they give us something else, etc. ...
     This is not the usual " I don't like green, give me red " type
    of complaint. I would not bother if Iam only one in a hundred. There
    are five veggies in our group of twenty five. ...and I can understand
    your point of view...May be after two years of turkey you would
    also feel like opting for somethingelse...
                                 

    re: .4...sorry, the annual debate rages in SOAPBOX (which I confess
    to having read in the past) and in personal discussions with the
    people in the New England area.
    
    Rembemer, that probably 50% (or more) of the employees don't get
    this turkey, much less an option to exchange it for something else.
    After five years, I would like to be able to say that I am sick
    of turkey...
    
    Perry

re: 237.5    -< The point is:  At least you get *something!* >-

I know I answered this point somewhere, but obviously not in this 
conference.

If you work for DEC U.S., *YOU* *DO* *INDEED* *GET* *SOMETHING*.  (In other 
subsidiaries, your mileage may vary.)

Your management is allocated a certain amount of money per employee to use
for a holiday gift or function.

In the Greater Maynard Area, that money is used to buy turkeys.  Some field 
offices have thrown parties with the money.

You might want to ask your manager what's being done with the DEC money 
this year in your office.  When I was in the field, this was the 
responsibility of the facility manager (who, suffering from an attack of 
originality, bought us turkeys).

Ray

        Re:  the topic of this discussion
        
        When I got that green card that entitled me to a turkey I
        took it to my personnel representative and said:
        
            I am a vegetarian.  I don't kill animals to eat them,
            so I don't want this turkey.  I also think it is
            inappropriate for DEC to kill an animal and give it to
            charity in my name.  Please give this turkey to charity,
            but tell the people running the program about my
            problems with it. 
            
        If every vegetarian did this then something might change.
        Even if you didn't complain when you handed in the card, you
        can still go to your personnel representative and ask that
        your views be passed up the chain.  Make your views known.
        
        [In my case, my manager came and gave me the opportunity to buy
        whatever I wanted (within a $ limit) and charge it to the cost
        center.  I refused the offer -- my goal was to change the way
        things are done in the long run, not to get every penny I can
        from DEC this year.] 
        
        					B.J.

    Re: .2
    
    > Only employees in the New England area get these wonderful turkeys.
    
    Wrong again! Out here in the desert boondocks (Phoenix, Arizona)
    we get turkeys too.
    
    							Warren
    

    Perhaps we can work something out...let's see:
    
    1 turkey = X carrots  or
    1 turkey = Y potatoes or
    1 turkey = ( 50000 * X ) eggplants
    
    No harm intended. Perhaps we could just get DEC gift certificates
    that can be applied towards ( heaven forbid ) training.
    
    I think that our counterpart is a party at our secretary's house.
    Sorry, I think I'm washing my hair that day.
    
    Jim

    What do our friends across the big pond get for Christmas?
    
    I heard rumors that it beats a turkey!
    
    Anyone feel like confirming that?
    
    
    The Mad Chinaman
    

    ONE Turkey? Since my wife and I both work at DEC, that makes two.
    But we also rent a room to a DECcie. So that's three turkeys. Times
    seventeen years, makes about 50 DEC Turkeys we have gotten over
    the years.
    
    And they are not real meat, the way turkeys are raised these days.
    Mostly drugs. And they are kinda small. So no leftovers.
    
    But we go away for Christmas. So we don't use them for Christmas.
    So every time we go to the freezer, we think of DIGITAL...all year
    long. And it becomes another project to eat them all before next
    Christmas rolls around!
    
    But it is kinda nice. It is part of the holiday spirit. And we enjoy
    it. And smile when we get the bird. And say Have a Happy Holiday.
    And try to think of the spirit that was intended by the giver!

    RE: .10
    
    	"Across the pond" we get a nice turkey basket.  It includes
    some smoked salmon, white wine, red wine, champagne, a turkey, and
    I think some candy or desert...2 years ago it was an Italian cake.
    
    	We dont mess too much with "veggie types" here.  It's kind of
    a fad type thing.  Besides, I sometimes eat with a vegitarian and
    dont eat meat, so I see no reason whatsoever why they cannot enjoy
    a nice turkey as a gift for the holidays!
    
    	Also, DEC buys Christmas presents for children of employees.
     That's nice too, the employee picks them out of a catalog a few
    months early.  Also, there are a lot of Christmas parties at work,
    I guess a champagne/Scotch party at the secretarys' desk is kinda
    frowned upon there, huh??
    
    Keith-across the pond

    RE: .10
    
    	"Across the pond" but in the UK we get twelve pounds worth of
	gift vouchers for Marks & Spencers (will get you a turkey if
	thats what you want). We also get a company Christmas dinner
	& Dance or whatever the function decides. For two years I went
	to large dinner & disco type events, this year I am going (tonite)
	to a chinese dinner.

	From the sports & social club we get a diary and a book of money off
	vouchers (last two years only) plus a subsidised disco "The Grope".

	Dave.

    RE: .12 & .13
    
    	Yes, we too get a dinner/dance.  And, as an earlier notes said,
    each mgr gets money x #of people.  One year in a branch office we
    voted not to have a party...the mgr went around passing out paper
    money he received for us.  If you'd rather have the money...ask.
    
    Keith-across the pond

One year I couldn't make it to get my bird.  I called personnel and they
said that's ok and handed me a check for something like $10.  The check 
was probably worth more, but I would have rather had the bird.  Now that 
the company keeps getting bigger, I don't know is personnel still wants 
to get that personal  :-)

-mark

From:	INANNA::FORTMILLER			      15-jan-1986 13:36
To:	TURBO::WALKER
Subj:	Turkeys

Barbara,

I appreciate the fact that the company provides a Christmas bonus (even
though it is small in value), however I am a vegetarian and therefore the
bouns is of no use to me.  I am aware that I have the option of donating
it to charity or attempting to sell it.  The real issue is I don't believe
one should give or sell something to someone else that they personally don't
believe in.  I also don't believe in the raising of animals just for the
sake making food out of them.  Just because I work at Digital some poor
turkey probably had to grow up in less than ideal living conditions and
then be killed for my bonus.

I think the company should provide the employee with an option other than
a choice of one.  The other choices might be cash or a fruit basket (not
the ones with candy and other junk in them).

I also realize that most likely the cost to Digital for the turkeys is
much lower than the retail cost, so to the employee it might look like
a $8-10 gift whereby the cost to Digital is somewhat less, so if cash
were an option and lots of employees chose that option it may be a lot
more costly to Digital.  It sure would look cheap to hand out five
dollar bills.



From:	TURBO::WALKER       "Barbara Walker, AA/EEO/Vd, 251-1358, CFO2-3/K78" 15-Feb-1986 16:24
To:	INANNA::FORTMILLER,TURBO::WALKER
Subj:	Turkeys

Thanks for your memo Re: Turkeys.

Last week I met with Geoff Sackman, Employee Relations Manager, who says 
that the Employee Activities Group has this issue under review right now.  
Obviously, issues like this are tough to figure out when 50,000 people are 
involved, but I agree with you that it is a Valuing Differences question.

Barbara Walker



From:	HPSCAD::FORTMILLER "Ed Fortmiller  25-Nov-1986 1015" 25-nov-1986 10:16
To:	TURBO::WALKER
Subj:	Turkeys

Now that the turkey season is here I'm curious as to whether the turkey program
has been modified for this year. I hope that another living creature will not
be slautered because I work for DEC.  Attached is correspondence from 10
months ago indicating that the issue was under review.

        "Across the pond" but in the Germany we get an additional month's
	salary - bet you didn't know there were 13 months in a year.
    
    	Joe

    Does anyone know who the person or persons to contact about the
    program and its rules?  We are having problems here because of the
    cutback in funds (about half) and the lack of input being solicted
    from the employees directly involved.
    
    I think we should have a say in how the money is spent.  Presently,
    there is a holiday party, which we have to buy tickets to attend.
    The food is so-so and a cash bar.  A gift certificate, fruit basket,
    or turkey is better than this every year.
    
    Maybe we can change things if we can talk to the people who know.
    It's worth a try.

    .17 was what I had heard...I always wondered about that....

    	RE: .18
    
    	Check with your country/facility personnel.  They should know
    who's in charge of the operation.  The countries are all different
    and so are the branches in the States.  Sometimes to can get money...
    for veggies, champagne, cigars, petrol, etc.
    
    Keith
    
    

    I know this is slightly off the subject, but the odds of my point
    getting across are higher if I put this in this conference.
    
    Everyone seems to ignore the fact that even vegetables are LIFE
    FORMS. I don't mind someone "preferring" vegetables to meat, but
    come on, let's get honest. No matter how you slice it (pun intended)
    when you consume some form of protein, the odds are high that at
    one time it was some form of life that was "slaughtered". Just because
    vegetables don't move around and react to their environment the
    same as animals "slaughtered" for meat, doesn't mean those vegetables
    don't have the same rights to life. After all, how do you know at
    what level the vegetables perceive the universe? Or animals?
    
    I believe in equal rights for ALL FORMS OF LIFE, no matter what
    the circumstances of it's existence. I also believe in the rights
    of those who prefer to not partake of protein taken from the "higher"
    forms of life. 
    
    May all your holidays be filled with more cheer than you can imagine!
    
    						Warren
    

        When I first started with DEC out here in the Chicago area, we got
        Christmas parties instead. DEC contributed whatever dollar amount,
        and we had to buy tickets to watch the folks from the district
        office drink. I passed on these. 
        
        Now, they seem to have settled into giving us a $15 gift
        certificate to a grocery store chain. Thus we can buy our own
        turkey, corned beef, eggplant, or whatever. It isn't much [but it
        doesn't seem to be that far from a months salary by the time all
        of the deductions are removed )-: ], but each employee gets the
        same while retaining their freedom to choose what they want. And
        if there are multiple DECies in the same dwelling you don't have
        to figure out what to do with multiple turkeys. 
        
        Happy holiday-of-your-choice. 

    If you don't eat animal matter, and don't eat plant matter, what
    DO you eat?
    
    You can synthesize vitamins and minerals, but the only source of
    protein is from plants and animals.
    
    Human beings are so constructed that they MUST have protein. Please
    tell me what you do eat. 
    
    Thank you.
    
    -bs

    I wish I didn't have to eat at all. I'd rather plug myself into
    the wall at night and recharge for the next day. But, due to the
    limitations of the human body, I regretfully partake of other life
    form's protein.
    
    Maybe in some other universe or reality it might be different...
    
    							Warren
    

        re .17
        
        
>        "Across the pond" but in the Germany we get an additional month's
>	salary - bet you didn't know there were 13 months in a year.
    
	Probably a plot by German Personnel to stop you eating to much
        turkey and getting overweight...
        
        q
        

      Ed, I'm glad you wrote.  I also happen to have an NMAIL V7
      receipt from a message I sent to TURBO::WALKER, but I don't
      remember the reply if there was any.
      
      In the local Hudson Digital news magazine, there were explicit
      instructions for what to do if one desired a kosher turkey:
      take the green card ("Season's Greetings!") with a receipt from
      a butcher showing purchase of a 12-14 pound turkey and an
      expense voucher for that amount to personnel, where I assume
      one will be reimbursed for the expense.
      
      I appreciate the explicit directions; however, like Ed, I am
      also a bit miffed that if I am to play strictly by the rules
      (without asking beforehand if I can submit a voucher for a
      "reasonable" sized holiday expense and be reimbursed, which I
      have a suspicion would work), I have become a party to one
      more animal's suffering.
      
      My group also has a handful of vegetarians.  I am not sure what
      they do or whether they are bothered by the practices.  I
      sincerely hope the appropriate people resolve this issue and
      value everyone's differences (although I chuckle a bit at the
      speech before the local personnel folks).
      
      Sam	HLO2-1/G13  DTN 225-4135

    Come on, now!  This is a gesture of appreciation by DEC. The idea of a
    turkey around the holidays is a tradition, for Pete's sake!  
    
    If I were trying to give you a present and you filed a formal protest
    to personnel because you didn't like it, it'd be one hell of a long
    time before you got another one.  I was brought up to be more concerned
    with the thought behind a gift than the price tag on it.
    
    This IS a gift we're talking about, not some contractual obligation.
    If you don't like it, DON'T TAKE IT, but whatever you do, don't make
    such a stink about it that they stop doing it for the rest of us. 
    
    -joet
    
    P.S. Personally, I feel that if you can't sleep because somewhere
    out there is a turkey with your name on it, you need someone to talk
    to who can do a bit more than "value your difference".

    RE: .29
    
    	You said it right!
    
    KMP

     
     I can hardly hold back my tears as I think of the suffering of
     thousands of turkeys. You know about turkeys -- the animals that are
     so stupid that they've been known to perish in a heavy rainstorm
     because they look up with their beak open until they drown. 
     
     To those who complain to personnel about the Annual Turkey Slaughter:
     Given that the personnel department at DEC, for better or worse, has
     limited resources, is this the type of issue that you'd like to see
     personnel spend its time on?  (You might also think of the
     alternative: if DEC didn't hand out turkeys, then many of the
     carnivores might go out and have some nice venison stew, or even Cat
     Cacciatore.)
     
     --Mr Topaz 

    re: .29, .30, .31--I wish you guys could show a little more sensitivity
    for the feelings of others.  Although I personally don't mind if
    turkeys suffer, I realize that other people do, and I try not to
    offend them by making fun of their sincerely held beliefs.
    
    "Valueing differences" applies to co-workers just as much as to
    management.  Maybe more.
        John Sauter

    Re .21:
    
    There are ex-life forms that might fit your bill.  A seed is a
    _potential_, not an _actual_ life form.  (You have to plant them
    for them to become life forms of their own.)  Therefore, grain,
    green vegetable seeds (e.g. peas), ground-up seeds, etc. would
    probably work.  Hint: one seed with _complete_ pRotien is soybean.
    
    Bon apetit!
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr
    

I have visions of Greenpeace out in the mill pond in lifeboats trying to 
stop personnel from handing out the turkey cards   :-)

-mark

     RE: .29
     
     TAKE HEED! .29 Hits the Nail On The Head.
     
     Not to  show disrespect for others with differing life-styles, but I
     remember a similar  situation  which  came up in another company and
     was resolved by "burning  everyone".    In  this  previous  Company,
     everyone was given a Xmas  bonus,  which  was determined relative to
     the individual's salary.  Well, some  folks complained that this was
     unfair, since some people received larger bonuses  than others!  Net
     result was that Everyone got $15.00 bonuses each  Xmas, (from what I
     was told, since this occurred before I joined the  company)  a great
     deal less than ANY of the previous bonuses!!!
     
     To relate this issue to a DEC-decision:  My first  position  in  DEC
     was in  Manufacturing  management.  They formed "quality circles" to
     emulate the Japanese.    Someone  griped  that their Supervisor held
     theme to the break/lunch  times  in  the  Personnel Policies Manual,
     while the rest of the  Supervisors  allowed some flexibility (10 min
     breaks became 20 min, lunches also  were  extended by ~15 min).  [My
     shift/operations exceeded projected goals by >50% each  day,  so why
     be a "hard-ass" about breaks/lunch!  At one  time,  this  was "doing
     the right thing" the DEC Way.] Net result, our  management came down
     on  us to enforce the PP break/lunch rules strictly!!   This  really
     hurt morale, and left the Supervisors to be the "heavies".
     
     The moral of these stories  is  that if we make it difficult for DEC
     to be nice to us, a  possible  decision  may  be  to scrap the whole
     program.  It is damn near impossible  to  do something and guarantee
     that it won't offend anyone.  DEC has  grown  a lot in recent years,
     today it is a lot less "people oriented" than  it  was  only 7 years
     ago,  in  that period of time we have lost a  lot  of  the  valuable
     "benies"  which  we  had  (Salvage,  and  a viable Employee Purchase
     Program), the Xmas Turkey could go the same way...
     
     My suggestion for the  vegetarians  in  DEC  is to quietly ask their
     Personnel Rep if they can  have an alternative to the turkey and not
     make a major (i.e. Corporate) issue of it.

	re .21: Tom Paxton (who will be performing in the Boston area
	this weekend) wrote a song for his "militant vegetarian"
	friends, the chorus goes:
	
	Oh! No! Don't slay that potato!
	It never done nothing to you!
	
	sorry to keep the diversion going, but I just couldn't
	resist...
	
	Mike

    ...and if they gave us U.S. Savings Bonds there would be people
    protesting about DEC investing in such_and_such war effort...
    
   *sigh*
    Marge
    

        Re: .29
        
        Turkeys are one holiday tradition, being of good cheer is
        another.  I don't want to keep the first tradition, and you
        don't seem to want to keep the second.
        
        					B.J.

    
    there are many people, such as my family, that consider vegetarianism
    an important part of our philosophical and religious beliefs.  
    
    while one can certainly appreciate the fact that digital is trying
    to do something nice...i am surprised at the comments so many
    *intelligent* noters have directed to a belief that is thousands
    of years old.   one earlier reply called it a *fad*?  
    
    we don't need to debate the value of our beliefs, the comparision
    of plants to animals, or even consider the value of the life form
    -turkey-  
    
    actually- i lived in pine ridge sd (an indian reservation), and they
    loved puppy stew...  
                                      
    respect and value differences...................
    
    
    
    

    
    RE.29
    	
    	I Agree with you 100%
    
    I respect and value diffrences.......But don't go around and complain.
    Digital is trying to do something nice, if you don't like don't
    take it.
    
    I don't like Canobie Lake Park (another tradition), but I don't
    go to personnel complaining, I just don't attend.
    
    D.F

        Re: .40
        
>    I respect and value diffrences.......But don't go around and complain.
>    Digital is trying to do something nice, if you don't like don't
>    take it.
        
        Don't try to force your definition of `nice' on everyone
        else.  Some people do not believe that killing a turkey
        is nice.
        
        Don't compare it with Canobie Lake Park, compare it with
        abortions.  Suppose DEC had a benefit of free abortions for
        employees, and if you didn't want to have an abortion it
        would be given to a needy teenager.
        
        Many people consider abortion a sin and would be violently
        opposed to this benefit.  Other people would consider it an
        excellent plan.  Most people would fall in between. 
        
        The same applies to vegetarians.  Some don't mind the turkeys,
        but others feel that killing animals is wrong and do not
        want it done for them or in their name (as is the case when
        a killed turkey is given to charity).  I fall in between.
        
        					B.J.

    The solution is simple. Turkeys are vegetables. They certainly have
    the brains of vegetables. Their little feet look kind of like
    roots. They're covered with inedible leaves. And you can use
    them in salads. 

    re: .41
    
    I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but the author of .40 has a valid
    point.  Your dislike of having turkeys killed, on whatever moral or
    philosophical grounds you choose, can be no more important than
    TWEED::FARHADI's dislike of Canobie Lake Park for whatever reasons he
    has.  He, however, seems to have taken an attitude that allows others
    who don't share his feelings to enjoy their perk without causing
    problems for them or for the company.  
    
    The true spirit of "valueing differences" MUST lie in putting YOURSELF
    out so that others may go about their lives without having to conform
    to YOUR perception of a norm.
    
    -joet 

Forgive a stupid question, but would someone mind definint a vegitarian 
for me?  I have heard many calling themselves vegitarians simply if they 
didn't eat red meat.  An old roommate of mine told me he was a 
vegitarian and when asked for a definition he told me he didn't eat 
meat, fish or dairy products (that's right - NO ICE CREAM!).

It was purely a health trip for him.  He had no qualms about killing 
animals.  I too have always felt that vegitarianism was a health thing 
and not a moral thing either.

Talk about getting off the subject...    :-)

-mark

I'm a vegetarian, and I have no use for a dead bird in a box.  My being a vege-
 tarian has nothing to do with the IQ of turkeys.

I hasten to point out, though, that we do have people in this company who have
 religious objections to eating animals, and to having animals killed for them.
  I know that at least one Hindu has written to personnel and requested an
   alternative, though I don't know what the result was.

Those who poke fun at people who care for the fate of animals are not valuing
 differences, and no twisting of perspectives will change that.
  <_Jym_>

        Re: .43
        
        I did not say that my dislike of having turkeys killed was more
        important than TWEED::FARHADI's dislike of Canobie.  I did not
        say that others should stop having turkeys, I said that DEC
        should not kill a turkey in my name.  I am not trying to change
        the way that others act, I only want to protect my values. 
        
        My values are different, and others (DEC, and many authors of
        notes in this discussion) are not respecting them.
        
        Part of the text of .40 is `But don't do around and complain'.
        The spirit of .40 is that I should ignore my own values.
        My .41 is just a statement that some people have different values.
        So why are you lecturing me in value differencing when I am not
        one of those showing disrespect for the values of others? 
        					B.J.

 As has been said earlier, DEC is _trying_ to do something nice and seasonal
for us, to celebrate the holiday season. Now I'm sure (being somewhat 
familiar with bureaucracy in its many forms) that if we make enough fuss
about the turkeys, then the giving will be stopped as a solution to the
problem (we take away the benefit for the majority, so as to salve the 
feelings of the minority; is that the way things should be?). 
 I'm not sure I understand the feelings of guilt because of a "dead turkey
with your name on it"; I think the argument is specious, in that if you
don't take your turkey, and don't give it to charity, then it is merely 
sold back to the distributor and thence to the local Purity Supreme! Your
declining the turkey (even well in advance) would be unlikely to prolong 
the life of the bird! 

			Nigel

 A gift certificate would be nice, but is probably a taxable benefit under
American law (everything else seems to be!) :-)

        Re: .44 (What is a vegetarian?)
        
        There are several types of vegetarians.  The American Heritage
        Dictionary defines a vegetarian as:
        
            One whose diet consists of grains, plants, and plant
            products and who eats no meat.
        
        This definition ignores the area of non-plant products,
        non-meat.  There are two particular areas that this includes:
        dairy products and eggs.  Different vegetarians have different
        attitudes toward these. 
        
        Part of the reason for the different attitudes are the different
        reasons for being vegetarians.  Some object to the killing of
        animals (for various reasons) and some are vegetarians for
        health or religious reasons.  People that object to killing
        animals sometimes object to eating eggs because they could
        become an animal.  Some object to dairy products because it is
        stealing from the children of the animal giving the milk.  Some
        object to eggs and dairy products because of the cruelty of the
        handling the animals in some `modern' egg and milk `factories'.
        Some people even object to the killing of plants. 
        
        Here is a partial taxonomy of types of vegetarians:
        
            lacto-ovo-vegetarians:  Eat grains, plants, plant products,
                dairy products (lacto-), and eggs (ovo-).
        
            lacto-vegetarians:  Eat grains, plants, plant products,
                and dairy products.
        
            ovo-vegetarians:  Eat grains, plants, plant products, and eggs.
        
            `vegans' or `pure vegetarians':  Eat only grains, plants,
                and plant products.
        
            fruititarians (sp?):  Eat only fruit and nuts.  Fruits
                and nuts come off of plants naturally without killing
                the plants.
        
        If a person eats members of the animal kingdom (fish or poultry)
        then they are either an omnivore or a carnivore.  However,
        because there is no specific word for a person who does no
        eat red meat these people will frequently call themselves
        vegetarians.  I have run across three types of these diets: 
        
            vegetarian diet plus poultry
            vegetarian diet plus fish
            vegetarian diet plus poultry and fish
        
        There are a large number of other variations relating to
        vegetarian diets (and the reasons for the diet), such as:
        
          - How strict the diet is (i.e., must it be strictly followed,
            or is the person only required to make a reasonable effort
            to keep the diet). 
        
          - How food can be prepared. 
        
          - How much the person cares about animal products used in food
            preparation (lard and fats).  If not eating food cooked
            using animal products is a high priority then it becomes
            almost impossible to eat in restaurants. 
        
          - If the person cares about animal products in non-food items
            (shampoos, vitamins, shoes, belts, wallets). 
        
        					B.J.

    Re .47:
    
    <Digression>
    
    I think the argument is along the lines of "No innocent blood on *my*
    hands..."  Of course, the folks we buy vegetables from (the grocers and
    their suppliers) also promote the sale of meat and, so, promote the
    production of livestock to supply the market.  
    
    But anyone who applies the "not on *my* hands" argument to anything --
    the war machine, the food chain, etc -- either finds it necessary to
    set a level of involvement that he accepts but refuses to go beyond or
    to sequester himself from some aspect of the society at large. 
    
    In the case of food issues, this usually means an entirely different
    supply chain.  Many health food stores started in the sixties with this
    in mind, although the focus has shifted from an ideological one to a
    commercial one these days as people have become so health-conscious. 
    
    <This being dispensed with...>
    
    It seems that, in order to value this difference, *nothing* is needed
    at a corporate level.  What is needed is a way for a vegetarian
    employee to be able to alert *local* personnel by some advance date
    that he has moral objections to slaughtering turkeys, and that he'd 
    rather (med. prio.) receive a check for the equivalent amount and 
    (high prio.) have the number of turkeys ordered decremented by one. 
    
    The immediate question it raises is whether the extra work this would
    create for personnel would cause the turkey distribution at that plant
    to cease entirely.  Personnel is not an physical object with invariant
    characteristic behavior, but an organization capable of making
    decisions.  Any act on personnel's part besides offering both options
    would not be consistent with the principle of "valuing differences". 
    
    The answer may be that your site values differences as long as doing so
    doesn't create a significant amount of work for anyone in addition to
    those mandated by law. Or it may be that your site is willing to bend
    over backwards in order to value all differences.

    As for me, I'm going to enjoy my turkey this Christmas, with cornbread
    stuffing and gravy and mashed potatoes and squash and turnip and apple
    pie with ice cream and cheese for dessert.
    
    Which reminds me...Lunch time!
    
    					I'd never get anywhere in Germany :-)

    						Ralph 

As one who has kept a low profile in broadcasting/prosyletizing/promulgating
my personal convictions,this discussion has given me the impetus to assert
my ethos concerning the instant topic.
	I have requested and management have agreed to value my differences
in this matter, beginning next Christmas season.
	Henceforth,during my employment with the company,I shall receive
not a turkey but the equivalent quantity of fresh whalemeat.

						Nanook J. Mukluk

( I wish to thank Jack Previdi for the use of his terminal upon which this was 
written).

    Re .50:
    
    Dear Nanook:
    
    This means you aren't even a fish-and-vegetable-matter vegetarian;
    whales are mammals.  Sorry, you're SOL.
    
    It's enough to make one blubber.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
     

Besides, whale meat is generally purchased frozen.

Something to do about the weather.

Martin.

Ps: where is soapbox now that we really need it?

    
    
    hey - lets make fun of Christianity, Islam, Judism, 
    

    Being that we are out of range of the trailer trucks bearing the
    frozen turkeys, us poor field folk here in Atlanta just received
    our gift certificates for $xx.xx at the local Kroger supermarket
    chain.
    
    Will stop by tonight and pick up some bagels and lox (fish - so
    as not to offend anyone).

    Happy HOLIDAY (pick the one of YOUR choice).
    
    	-Barry-
    

    RE: .52 SOAPBOX (which is a very good place for many of the replies
    here) is at 2B::SOAPBOX. [KP7 or Select]
    
    I think the debate about what is vegetarianism and it's goodness,
    badness, rightness, or wrongness is better served [no pun intended]
    in SOAPBOX. 
    
    			Alfred

    Mr. Thompson omitted the fact that 2B:: just changed areas. If your
    database hasn't been recently updated, you will a system unavailable
    error message. If that happens, modify ent soapbox/file=2130::soapbox.
    
    Bob Mc
    

    Re .57:
    
    This is verging on SOAPBOX material.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Beyond verging.  .57 has nothing to do with "Working at Digital".  
    Please move it to SOAPBOX or continue it via VAX Mail, but not here.
    
    					Not a moderator but irritable today, 

    						Ralph

    
    Go to 2B::SOAPBOX
    
    Do not pass MKO
    
    Do not collect 200 Turkeys.

    

    This topic has been set "WRITE" please keep it to JUST the digitial
    way of working...
    
    Gale Kleinberger
    co-moderator

                   <<< HUMAN::WRKD$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                        6 replies
RITA::NANCYVTX                                        4 lines   4-DEC-1987 15:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Does anyone know if Ken Olsen has an account that we can send mail
    to?  I want to thank him for my turkey.  really.
                    ...................................Nancy
    
================================================================================
Note XXX  			Ken Olsen's Node                           1 of 6
REGENT::EPSTEIN "Bruce Epstein"                       3 lines   4-DEC-1987 15:54
                              -< a possibility? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There's nothing listed in ELF (but you probably already knew that).
    I believe he uses DECmail (noted somewhere else in this conference), 
    so 'Ken Olsen @MLO' might work...
================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                           2 of 6
AUSTIN::UNLAND "Lost in Translation"                  0 lines   4-DEC-1987 16:30
                               -< What Turkey? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                           3 of 6
MSDOA2::SATTER "SOR SWS: Mine not to reasson why ..." 4 lines   4-DEC-1987 16:30
                               -< What Turkey? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What turkey?
    
    Kurt (lost_in_middle_Tenn)
    
================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                           4 of 6
GEMVAX::ROY                                           6 lines   4-DEC-1987 16:50
                             -< Ken Olsen's Node >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    You can reach Ken Olsen via DECmail as follows:
    
       KEN OLSEN @DECMAIL@CORMTS@CORE@*
    
    (Or so says a recent distribution list attached to an internal memo.)
    
================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                           5 of 6
RITA::NANCYVTX                                        6 lines   4-DEC-1987 16:57
                          -< Turkeys for Turkeys 8^) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    For my Christmas turkey, you turkey!!! hee, just kidding. We
    are ALL getting turkeys today at MK1/MK2 as all loyal Digital
    employees deserve. And, I think its a very nice touch. Even tho
    sometimes I'de like a few other things...we cannot have everything
    we want! I'm logging out right now and going to get mine. Have a
    lovely weekend.                   .................N
================================================================================
Note XXX                     Ken Olsen's Node                           6 of 6
SEAPEN::PHIPPS "Digital Internal Use Only"            7 lines   4-DEC-1987 17:25
                                -< Note 237.n >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not every Digital site gets free turkeys. But then that has been (much)
discussed before. Not that it doesn't bear repeating for those that missed it.

On the other hand you could save some time by going over note 237.n in this 
conference.

        Mike

     from the distribution list of note 420.0
    
    Olsen   ( 1@DECMAIL@CORMTS@CORE )

    
    According to the Internal Guide to Organizations 1987-1988 Edition,
    K O's node address is: MTS$"MLO::KENNETH OLSEN".
    
    Bo

.2>    WRONG!  Apparently, only employees in the New England area get these
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Unless things have changed since I worked in Waltham,only employees
    that work in corporate type faclities get turkeys.(the mill,parker
    st. etc.) This is because field offices get gala,lavish,parties.
    
    PS Give me a turkey.

          <<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note XXX.0           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237            5 replies
CURIE::SRINIVASAN                                    45 lines   3-NOV-1988 23:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE PERMISSION FROM THE AUTHOR:





               <<< VAXWRK::NOTES$:[NOTES$LIBRARY]INDIA.NOTE;1 >>>
                           -< Discussions on India >-
================================================================================
Note 407.0           Does Digital really value differences?           33 replies
TELALL::ICS "Gita Devi"                              32 lines  13-OCT-1988 10:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well, folks - it's getting to be that time of the year when Digital
    rewards its employees by giving them a turkey.  For the strict
    vegetarians among us, this is anything but a reward.  For the past
    five years, we've been trying to get Digital to present us with
    an alternative, but haven't had much luck.  Today I asked my personnel
    representative about alternative to the turkeys and he was surprised
    to find out that we've never been given any option.
    
    He called Corporate Personnel and was given the same line as
    the rest of us - go talk to Valuing Differences and/or send a letter
    directly to John Sims, who is the V.P. of Personnel.  My PSA finds
    the attitude being expressed by personnel to be against the company
    line of Valuing Differences.  The company line is that the turkeys
    are a GIFT from DEC.  But - they allow people who keep kosher to
    go out and buy a kosher turkey and submit the bill.  Why can't we
    go out and buy a fruit basket of comparable value and submit the
    voucher, too?
        
    He suggested that we should ALL - each and every one of us who objects
    to the turkeys - send a letter to Mr. John Sims, VP Personnel @MLO.
    Stress the fact that Digital's committment to 'valuing differences'
    shouldn't just extend to one group and not another.  Is our
    moral/ethical reasons for not eating turkey any less valid than
    someone who'll only eat kosher meat?
    
    So - I'm appealing to all of you to write to Mr. Sims.  Suggest
    the simple alternative of a fruit basket or some purchase of comparable
    worth.  
    
    Peace
    
    -Gita Devi
================================================================================
Note XXX.1           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237               1 of 5
ULYSSE::WADE                                         10 lines   4-NOV-1988 05:38
                    -< Valuing Differences starts at home >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Do YOU really value differences?  For example the 
	difference between being employed and unemployed?

	Why not, in a spirit of goodwill, just give your 
	turkey away to a disadvantaged family?  Then, 
	feeling comforted, go buy yourself some fruit!

	Jim


================================================================================
Note XXX.2           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237               2 of 5
COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert"                       9 lines   4-NOV-1988 07:16
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

re .1

Maybe you should *learn* about differences.

The people who have been making this request (for *at least* the past five
years) not only don't want to eat a turkey, many of them want one less turkey
to be slaughtered.

/john
================================================================================
Note XXX.3           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237               3 of 5
HPSCAD::FORTMILLER "Ed Fortmiller, MRO1-3, 297-4160"  8 lines   4-NOV-1988 07:51
                     -< Please don't slaughter one for me >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re .1:	
    >Then, feeling comforted, go buy yourself some fruit!
          
    For me, feeling comforted would mean that a turkey was not raised
    and slaughtered for my Christmas bonus.
    
    I've heard that DEC pays ~$4 for a turkey.  Ah, such a generous
    Christmas bonus.
================================================================================
Note XXX.4           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237               4 of 5
HPSCAD::FORTMILLER "Ed Fortmiller, MRO1-3, 297-4160"  2 lines   4-NOV-1988 07:56
                                  -< See 237 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Turkey discussion is also in 237 and probably belongs there.
    
================================================================================
Note XXX.5           Christmas Turkeys - Moved to topic 237               5 of 5
CVG::THOMPSON "Grump grump grump"                     5 lines   4-NOV-1988 09:21
                               -< Moved to 237 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have write-locked this topic and would request that discussion
    take place in topic 237 which already has some detail on this issue.
    
    		Alfred Thompson
    		co-moderator

    Re: .64
    
>.2>    WRONG!  Apparently, only employees in the New England area get these
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    Unless things have changed since I worked in Waltham,only employees
>    that work in corporate type faclities get turkeys.(the mill,parker
>    st. etc.) This is because field offices get gala,lavish,parties.

    We in Colorado Springs get turkeys too!  This must be one of the
    few times we've been called a "corporate type facility"  :-)
    
    -  David

    RE: .64
    
>    ...This is because field offices get gala,lavish,parties.
    
    Dream on, my friend.  Dream on...
    
    Perry

    
    Re: Field Stuff
    
    	As a former Field Service type,I *never* went to a gala,lavish
    party.Oh,yYes,we had holiday parties,but *we* paid for thm,through
    a $$ per couple and things like a coffee club,etc.
    
    	tomg
    
    
    

        I suspect that whether or not turkeys get distributed depends
        on the size of the facility, rather than whether it's "corporate"
        or "in the field".
        
        Someone asserted earlier that there is a corporate policy that
        employees would either get a party or a turkey.  Perhaps failure
        to implement this in some places is a bug -- or a local cost
        containment program :^)
        
        Tom

>    < Note 237.69 by DR::BLINN "Mind if we call you Bruce?" >
>
>        I suspect that whether or not turkeys get distributed depends
>        on the size of the facility, rather than whether it's "corporate"
>        or "in the field".
    
    We here at the DCO/EKO/POG etc. complex in Landover MD have some
    1800 employees (as memory serves me: number was from a Security
    person about a year of so ago).  Does this make us too big or too
    small?  :^)
    
    I think that they must have channelled all that turkey money into
    the cold cuts that they served at the District parties.  I'd rather
    have the turkey.  Then, at least, my wife and children could have
    some.  And I'm sure that most residents who were stuck doing their
    "billable duty" would have preferred something to nothing.

================================================================================
Note xxx.0       Turkey for vegetarians?? Value the differnce !!      No replies
CURIE::SRINIVASAN                                     6 lines   4-NOV-1988 19:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    Thanksgiving is approaching. I understand that Digital normally
    gives away frozen turkeys during holidays!! What will the vegetarians 
    do with that frozen bird ?? Can we ask for some other substitution??
    
    

    When I was in the Field (Santa Clara District & Western Area) we
    not neither turkeys nor lavish parties.  Indeed, I worked at DEC
    nearly 3 years before I heard of this bizarre custom.
    
    At my current facility (UCO-2) last year we got a gift certificate
    redeemable at Safeway, along with a pitch to sign over the
    certificate to the local food bank (which most people did).
    
    If the money is going to be spent, this seems to be a more
    reasonable way to do it.
    
    
    				/PGJ

    If one wants lavish parties, they should go to East Central area
    (Detroit).The so called kick off meetings for various districts go on till
    the middle of the Q1. Whenever a particular district has a kick
    off meeting, other district chiefs and few privileged area people had 
    a great time and almost every meeting included breakfast, Lunch.
    Dinner (included the spouse or the other significant half). Some of
    these kick off meetings used to last two days and on the second day 
    some area people and some ACT consultants had a chance to practice
    golf at the company time.
                     
    In the same district, there will a kick off meetings for sales,SWS,
    training, Field Services, etc, etc.. Some people in a distrct attend
    each and every one of these kick off meetings " You invite me- I
    invite you principle works very well here.
    
    Beleive it or not- most of the kick off meetings were held in a
    luxary hotel and dinner was held in a floating restaurant. 
    As if these distrct kick off meetings are not enough, it will be
    topped by a area kick off meeting. I never understood why they could
    not spend just one evening of kick off meeting and the get the whole
    thing over with, instead of stretching for the entire first quarter.       
    
    

Has anybody else heard that there will be no turkeys distributed this year?

Hamp

    >Has anybody else heard that there will be no turkeys distributed this year?
    
    humm... befor we answer you on this, we want'a know what do you really 
    mean by a turkey ? 
    
    /nasser

Nevermind....it was, infact, just a rumor.

    
    
    i heard the turkeys are purchased early in the year.  Now to save
    money we could drive out to the farm and pick them up ourselves...

    re .77
    
    well nasser what do you think?  should we save even more money and 
    offer to clean our own bird?

    
    >i heard the turkeys are purchased early in the year.  Now to save
    >money we could drive out to the farm and pick them up ourselves...

    you mean you want us , DECeee's , to go catch live turkeys?

    great, i can see it now, a farm full of DECeee's running around like
    crazy .

    no, thank you, iam sure i echo the sentiment of many DECeee's when i
    say that we prefer to get our turkey the old fashioned way.

    /Nasser

	Much cheaper to send us the Turkey eggs. You could send the turkeys
	for a whole cost center for what it costs to ship a single turkey
	now. Not only would Digital save on shipping costs, but on the 
	cost of feeding, plucking and butchering. Imagine the fun you'll
	have as your cost center's previously dull and boring Christmas
	party turns into a mass turkey pluck! And as you wring your turkey's
	neck, just imagine it is your (least) favorite VP! Sure to
	boost morale as well!

						Tom_K

    Um, I wonder what is going on at the turkey farm?  I envision a turkey
    farmer reading a prepared statement to the flock:
    
    	 Troops, I have good news and bad news.  First the good news. 
    
    	 As you know, hard times have hit Digital this year, so there will
    	 be fewer among our ranks who will be ... ah ... 'transitioned' to
    	 Digital.  A 'generous transition package' will be made available on 
    	 a voluntary basis.  
    
    	 Now for the bad news.  Hard times have hit the farm this year.  
    	 We must streamline our operations and establish a presence in other 
    	 markets.  Therefore, (and I know you'll be happy to do this for the 
    	 good of the farm) you are all being volunteered for 'transition.'
    
    Steve

    Back in '77, someone put up signs in the Mill reading 
    
    	"The turkeys are coming!"
    
    Within a day, one of them was amended,
    
    	"They're already here, working on 1-4!"
    
    Dick

    when did the DEC tradition of giving turkeys start?

    may be the old timers might know, i mean did DEC give turkeys all the time
    since it started in 1957? or did this tradition start at some point
    later on? 

    the acquiring minds want'a know.

    thanks,
    /nasser

    
    this will be my 22nd turkey.
    
    I hear next year's COE will be at the turkey farm.
    

    
    I've heard that the turkey cancellation is a false rumor, and
    that all employees will be given the bird.
    
    As usual, if you'd like to help others during the holiday season
    you may fill out a donation card and give the bird back.
    

    all this talk about the DEC turkeys has a nice feeling to it, it does 
    make one feels the holiday spirit around, and remindes us that x-mass 
    becoming so near. 
    
    i like turkey talks.

    /nasser

Re: .85,
All employees may get the bird, but only the GMA ones get to eat it...

    Have I missed something?  The upcoming holiday season will be my third
    with Digital.  Neither I nor anyone I know of has received a turkey. 
    Does the company REALLY give turkeys?  If so, what determines who does
    and does not receive one?  Or is someone pulling my leg, and I'm too
    slow to recognize it?

    ref .88
    
    >Have I missed something?  The upcoming holiday season will be my third
    >with Digital.  Neither I nor anyone I know of has received a turkey. 
    >Does the company REALLY give turkeys?  If so, what determines who does
    >and does not receive one?  Or is someone pulling my leg, and I'm too
    >slow to recognize it?
    
    no one is pulling your leg, it is true.
    
    but i dont think every DECeee gets a turkey, i think it is based by
    location or/and classification. if you are in ZKO , you will get a 
    turkey, a big truck full of them comes to the car parking lot
    outside, and people go to the truck and give the driver the 
    turkey ticket, then the driver gives you the box which the turkey
    is inside.
    
    you just need to thaw the turkey and then cook it. be careful not
    to thaw it too soon because once it is thawed you cant freeze back
    again and you must cook it immediately else it will spoil.

    did you check the P&P book in VTX on this, see if there is a section
    relating to turkeys, you might find something about this.

    hope this helped a little.
    /nasser

    re: 88
    
    This yearly event is known at COT (Circle of Turkeys). In order to
    participate, your peers and management must nominate you to the
    status of Turkey. You are not eligible for Turkey status your first
    year of employment because you probably don't know any better. Upon 5
    successful nominations as a Turkey, you and three generations of your
    family are invited to participate in an all paid weekend at the Turkey
    Farm. There's the fun filled Turkey Egg Toss, the Turkey Egg role, and
    the infamous the (Turkey) Yolks on You!

    Nasser,
    
    You say that the truck driver gives out the birds in ZK?  Are you sure? 
    That's not the way this tradition is supposed to be done.  Your
    managers are supposed to hand out the turkeys.
    
    Mark

    
    A lot of people find it more natural to get the bird from a truck driver
    than from their managers...
    

    ref .91

    >You say that the truck driver gives out the birds in ZK?  Are you sure? 
    >That's not the way this tradition is supposed to be done.  Your
    >managers are supposed to hand out the turkeys.

    Mark, last x-mass we all went out to the truck, no manager was on
    site to handle the turkey process, i only saw truck driver and 
    assistant to truck driver doing all the work. i remember all this 
    very clearly because i was very excited about taking my first
    ever turkey home to cook.

    /nasser

    The managers do give out the turkeys in ZKO.  Nasser must have gone
    to get his turkey outside of distribution hours.
    
    Having frozen off my nose (figuratively) doing turkey-dispensing duty,
    I can personally attest to this :-)
    
    Leslie

    In *my* day (Mr. Kilgore will remember) at MR (pre-postfixed-"O"), I
    believe a suitably shaped manager was sought to don a Santa outfit for
    the Distribution of the Turkeys.  I'm not sure if the managerial title
    was as important as the suitable shape, however.

    When I was at CXO, I donned my Santa Cap and handed out the birdies! 
    Fun duty, cold, but rewarding.
    
    Steve 
    

    Not that it really matters but I haven't had a turkey handed to me
    by a manager since 1980 when I worked in WZ3. It never occured to
    me that a manager was supposed to hand me the bird.
    
    I've spent some time in the Mill, OGO and PK since then.
    
    Jim C.
    

    so if your manager is supposed to give you your turkey, then who will give
    your manager his or her turkey? (managers need turkeys too just like
    all of us).

    and who will give Mr Bob Palmer his turkey? 

    /Nasser

>>    and who will give Mr Bob Palmer his turkey? 

>>  /Nasser


The Board of Directors, of course!


And the BoD doesn't get any as they are NOT "digits".

JMP

    Isn't it Santa Claus who should give the presents including turkeys
    to nice boys and girls?
    
    It should work whatever is the managerial level :-).
    
    --Ritva
    

================================================================================
Note 237.100                     Holiday Turkeys                      100 of 100
BONNET::BONNET::SIREN                                 7 lines  12-OCT-1992 14:47
                           -< Santa Claus of course >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Isn't it Santa Claus who should give the presents including turkeys
>    to nice boys and girls?
    
>    --Ritva
  
    But what about the not-so-nice boys and girls?  :-)
    
    John, in Detroit, who has never gotten any type of fowl for the
    holidays.  

    re .101
    
    Old people told, that naughty children get a bunch of twigs to be
    used for punishment. I've never seen anyone to get them so you probably
    must be very naughty for that. The thing in between is that you don't
    get presents.
    
    --Ritva
    

    	Maybe, with our earnings-per-employee so low compared to the
    competition, we're all going to get lumps of coal instead of turkeys
    this year. Or maybe they'll just be blocks of ice shaped like frozen
    turkeys! When you finally go to thaw it out and look in the sink, there
    will be nothing left!

    
    I just read a memo (whichI will not post, as I do NOT have the author's
    permission), which among the many headers and forwards, had a peice of
    text from Bill Steul(sp?) saying that this is the LAST year for
    turkeys.
    
    I'm thinking of having mine bronzed.  Could be a collectors item 30yrs
    from now...
    
    Jim (who usually donates his to a charity...)
    

    ref .103 by STAR::DIPIRRO

    good point! that bring a thought on the subject i always did had,
    why dont DEC give out a chicken instead of turkey at x-mass time ?

    i mean a chicken is less expensive than a turkey, and smaller (need
    smaller truck), and a chicken has as much calories and proteins as a
    turkey does, iam sure, and it is much easier to cook too and to thaw too.
    plus, they are both birds !

    is my idea an original one? it mind boggling to me than know one has 
    thought of this switch before ?

    so, think of the million of dollars DEC can save by simply handing out
    a chickens this x-mass. DEC can save about $10 per employee easily,
    that is about *half a million* dollars !! (assuming 50,000 employee gets it
    at x-mass).

    /nasser

    re: .105
    
    I suspect your estimate of the cost of the turkeys is rather on
    the high side.  Last Thanksgiving a local supermarket was selling
    frozen turkeys for something like $.49 a pound.  At that rate,
    DEC would be paying around $6.00 apiece for its turkeys.

First, about the cost of turkeys. If the transfer cost is $6, then
the MLP is ... After all, "digital" quality costs more.


Then, if they really want to save money on birds, they could give
us pigeons. These could be picked up for free at any park. 


(As Foghorn Leghorn would say, "It's a joke, son.")

    re Cost of turkeys. 
    
    Even if they are .49c/lb at your local market. Buying 50,000 of them,
    should give DEC some bargaining power. I would hazard a guess, that we
    are probably looking at maybe $3-4/bird. So all up, cost of turkeys is
    maybe                       $200,000 but our revenue is up around
                          14,000,000,000...
    
    Not the scale of the different numbers. $4/head is a cheap method of
    "thanking" hard working employees. In the real scale of doing business
    it is inconsequential... Yeah, I know, a saving here, a saving there,
    but we are getting to the point that we are cutting off our nose to
    spite our face...
    
    Peter Q.
    

    
  |          <<< Note 237.105 by STAR::ABBASI "I love DECspell" >>>
  |     -< how can we save DEC $500,000 by a simple switch this x-mass >-
    
  | that is about *half a million* dollars !! (assuming 50,000 employee gets it
  | at x-mass).

    50,000 WOW !!!   
    
    I am on the other coast and have never in twelve years heard of anyone 
    out here getting a turkey.  Where have they all gone?  Maybe the world
    is really flat and they fell off on their way west {8^).
    
    We get "the bird" sometimes but it's hard to cook.
    out here
    

    >We get "the bird" sometimes but it's hard to cook.

    well, what do expect, the poor turkey probably spend all its life breathing
    all that smog you guys have on the other side, if you lived in
    Nashua, new Hamshire where the air is clean, DEC will have given you 
    a turkey that is easy to cook, i know i did it last x-mass, you just 
    need to make sure you thaw it , if you thaw it you must cook it 
    immediately else it will get bad.

    /nasser

    re: .110  
    
    I remember digging into the reason why "some do/some don't" many years
    ago...it was, at the time, based on geography.  In the early days, with
    most, if not all, of the workforce in the Mass/NH area it was pretty 
    easy to do.  As things started to spread, there was a policy in place
    (BACK THEN...) that allowed for the local funding of a party for groups
    that were excluded from the great "bird" exchange between employees and
    management (yes, my first birds in the company WERE recieved from
    mgrs...).  So back then, you either got the bird, or you got a small
    party.  Over the years (speculation here...) parties started to mean
    less and less because everyone was having group parties anyways, wether
    management kicked anything in or not.  Also, for managers, "giving your
    employees the bird" became a task to be delegated to someone else,
    eventually falling on the secretary.  
    
    re: .111
    
    Nassar, I really think you are stepping over the line trying to sell
    people who don't know any better on the fact that Nashua has "clean"
    air.  It is known to have some of the most poluted air in the region
    outside of Boston...In fact, if I were you, I would "bag" my bird this
    year to insure it doesn't come in contact with any pollutants that will
    undoubtedly be present in Nashua come bird cooking season.
    
    (Or did the real-estate agent tell you about the clean air?)
    
    Not-spell-checked, but-humor-checked...8')
    
    Jim

RE: .111 & .112

	The H20 in Nashua is the worst I've ever tasted worldwide.
	I would hate to even wash/rinse off the Turkey using Nashua canal H20

	Phew!!!! :-)

	dick

    ref .-1

    > The H20 in Nashua is the worst I've ever tasted worldwide.
    > I would hate to even wash/rinse off the Turkey using Nashua canal H20
    
    no, no, you keep getting it wrong, you should THAW the turkey first ,
    make sure you thaw it when you decide to cook it, if you thaw it
    and dont cook it , it will get bad !

    to thaw the turkey just let it stand outside WITH ITS COVER ON, you
    know that plastic wrap the turkey is inside, and when it is thawed just
    peel it off and throw the thing in the oven, make sure you dont
    turn the upper heat on, but do the lower heat, else you'll grill
    it instead of bake it.
        
    gee wiz, and i thought i was really bad in cooking, it seems iam better 
    than many people around here !

    /nasser

           I heard they were gonna really go for the big savings this
           year ... instead of turkey, or even chicken, everyone would be
           responsible to pick up any road-kill they might see on the way
           to work.  Then, we'd have deep-freezers at the security desks
           to store them until Christmas.  UUMMMM, possum stew ;-)

    Better.....

    	"pepe' le' pew" Filet' (Translation..... Skunk steak)
    
    8^).......
    
    
    Laughter takes of the edge..!

    re: .115
    
    And if you're in the GMA, listen to WBCN at 5:05PM on your way
    home.  Occasionally they have "road kill recipes" as part of
    the afternoon comedy bit.

.113>	The H20 in Nashua is the worst I've ever tasted worldwide.
.113>	I would hate to even wash/rinse off the Turkey using Nashua canal H20
    
    I know some upscale DECcies who rinse their Turkey with Perrier, and
    marinade it overnight in Chardonnay.
    
      John
    
    p.s. Nasser, here's another hint:  remove the giblets from the neck and
    	 chest cavities.  Serve them raw to unwelcome guests.

    Better yet, do what I do and raise your own.  That way you don't have
    to worry about them being frozen of if the gizzards are still in - you
    end up removing everything at one time ... and I serve the entrails raw
    to my unwelcome guests.      YUM YUM >>>
    
    Chuck

    /nasser: I hope you're joking about the bird cooking.  Any meat (with
    the exception of fresh _ground_ beef/turkey) should definitely be
    rinsed with running water.  Cleans off packaging residue and any
    "slime" present from the longterm storage/thaw.  Plus if it's not
    thoroughly thawed inside, the running water will help breal lose the
    "innerds" stored inside.
    
    Reg.

    RE: -1
    "any meat ... should be rinsed with running water"
    
    Not so.  Better to user vinegar, as it "seals" the meat and is not
    absorbed by cell tissue.  Also is eliminates bacteria and microscopic
    fungus/mold.  Best to use apple cider vinegar.  Helps tenderize the
    meat when cooking and enhances the flavor.

    vinegar, huh?  We'll (my family) pass.  Running water and for
    tenderizing etc, we use vodka/vermouth and spices.  Apparently, the
    alcohol does the same thing as the vinegar trick you described, but
    we've tried an assortment of recipes that say use vinegar and have
    thrown every single one out (recipe and prepared food) with the
    exception of salad dressing.  [guess one needs to develop a taste for
    vinegar prepared foods]
    
    So, /nasser, now you have a couple more ways to prepare a turkey.
    
    Ogre.

    
    	When stuffing the turkey, adding unpopped popcorn will not
    only add flavour but also notify you when the turkey is done.
    
    
    {^)	fred deady

    re: Popcorn
    
    Thank you, no, I heard (and believed) that one back in freshman year; a
    chicken full of vegetarian buckshot is no fun to eat....
    
    Of course, maybe if you nuked it in a microwave.....

    RE: cooking turkey
    
    A group of friends and I have another tradition for our DECturkey ...
    we take it camping, wrap it in several layers of foil and throw it on
    the campfire for several hours.  Just remember to "flip the bird" every
    so often and it comes out great.
    
    ... Bob
    

    hi, i have a question of being TFSO'ed and still getting the turkey:


      |                    |                           |
      V                    V                           V
      +--------------------x---------------------------+
      A                    B                           C

    the above is time line, event A is being TSFO'ed , the length of the
    line (AC) is the 90 days grace period we get, point B however is event
    of turkey day when DEC'eees get the turkey.

    so, my question, do you think one TFSO'ed at point A should get the
    turkey at point B ?

    /Nasser
    who_likes_to_be_a_brain_surgon_one_day

    Dear Erstwhile Brain-Surgeon,
    
    90 days <> 9 weeks, unless they changed the length of a week when I
    wasn't looking.  Check your calculator.
    
    :-)
    
    Dick

    ref .-1

    Thanks for the clarifying Dick, I got the TFSO plans mixed up, I
    thought it was 90 days, I have not been keeping up-to-date on the
    latest ones coming out.

    still my question stands, If I get TFSO'ed, do i still get my
    turkey ?

    and i forgot to thank the previous callers for the good advice
    that one should rinse the turkey with water and finger before you cook
    it. sounds like too much work, but is probably worth it.

    on this occasion, since we are on the subject, i'd like to take a moment 
    and wish every DECeee a happy merry-mass and a happy turkey and a 
    prosperous new year.

    /nasser
    who_not_sure_now_if_i_want_to_be_Brain_surgon_any_more

/nasser,
I suspect that if you get TFSO'd you get the bird, but not the turkey.
/kevin

    Sorry I am way too late in this debate and havent really read all the
    replies in this topic but here is a suggestion I submitted to Central
    Idea desk in 1990 and I am told it is in the notesfile too. So far,
    no action but I did get a paper award for participation. 
    
    Excuse me if this idea has already been discussed. In that case, hit
    the Next Unseen.
    
    -Atul
    ======================================================================
    
From:	LEVERS::PANDYA       "atul DTN:227-3656"  7-DEC-1990 15:31:17.51
To:	NM%SONATA::IDEASCENTRAL
CC:	PANDYA
Subj:	Turkey Distribution

Hi!

Please feel free to post this on the DELTA_IDEAS notefile if you feel it
is appropriate.

Every Thanksgiving, I get this turkey voucher which I know years in advance
I am not going to use. I do not use the voucher not because that is my
way of feeding the hungry. I do it for the "birds"! I wind up donating
the turkey, however, my better preference would be not to kill the 
"bird" to begin with. I am sure you have heard from people like myself
before.

My suggestion is, every year, before it is time to order the turkeys,
ask employees who do not wish to get one and get nothing in place of it.
Cut down your order by that size.

This will:

1. Save the company some money for those turkeys.

2. Provide employees, who REALLY care for the "birds", an outlet to do
   their share for the cause closer to that hearts.

The key however is, you tell them in advance that if you dont accept
this "Xmas Gift", there will be no other "replacement gift".

Thanks for listening.
Atul Pandya
TAY2-2/B4
    

    ref .-1

    do you really think that DEC can set up a process where by they contact
    turkey eligible employees to ask them if they want one or not?

    by the time you get asked, and your vote is filed somewhere and by the
    time someone gets to collect the forms and mail them to somewhere else
    for processing, and by the time they get back to you because you
    did not correctly identify the form code number and by the time someone
    prints all the reports of who wants the turkey and who does not
    want it, and by the time they contract someone to ship  all these reports 
    to the turkey farm, by then , x-mass will be here and gone , 
    and you'll still get the turkey either way.

    /nasser

	Nasser,  I THINK what .130 is referring to is a number of
	employees who are vegetarians who not only do not want the 
	turkey, but also don't want to have it killed and given to 
	them just for them to give it away.  In these cases the employee 
	would KNOW when they joined Digital that they didn't want a 
	turkey ever and could register then, much as we do here for
	sports and social club membership.  

	I don't know for certain, but it doesn't sound like a lot of
	extra admin.  Fortunately here in the UK we do not get a
	turkey.  Being a vegetarian myself I would be most upset to
	receive one.  

	But a note for those of you who do - turkey meat is one
	of the most volatile germ/bacteria wise and requires VERY
	careful preparation before cooking.  You should: ALWAYS wash your
	hands before and after handling an uncooked turkey; let it thaw
	COMPLETELY before cooking; remove all the giblety bits
	from inside; wash it thoroughly inside and out with fresh 
	running water once thawed; once cleaned don't put it back down
	on a plate or surface it has already sat on; NEVER reheat unless 
	you cook it in a way which causes it to be boiled or be at 
	boiling temperature for at least 15 minutes.  This way you don't 
	run the serious risk of food poisoning.  It is recorded fact 
	that the instances of food poisoning in the western world are on 
	the increase as "old fashioned" ideas about food preparation and
	kitchen cleanliness are disregarded..... Happy Christmas

	Cathy

    Hasn't the turkey debate been done to death already?
    
    Laurie.

    Laurie, i think the turkey discussion is good for us DECeees, it has a 
    holiday spirit to it, and keep reminding us that x-mass is coming soon, 
    especially at this time, we need it more than any other time.

    I support the vegetarians stand too, iam a vegy myself, except sometimes 
    i break the rules and eat a turkey or a chicken or a fish.

    merry-xmass to all,
    /nasser

    besides, we need to talk turkey around here more often.
    
    Chuck

    Surprisingly, it still comes up.  Our group manager had a 'breakfast
    meeting' with us today and it came up during the discussion.
    
    Mark
    
    PS.  He bought the donuts and muffins, not Digital.

               -< I havent given up yet >-
    
>Note 237.131

   > by the time you get asked, and your vote is filed somewhere and by the
   > time someone gets to collect the forms and mail them to somewhere else
   > for processing, and by the time they get back to you because you
   > did not correctly identify the form code number and by the time someone
   > prints all the reports of who wants the turkey and who does not
   > want it, and by the time they contract someone to ship  all these reports 
   > to the turkey farm, by then , x-mass will be here and gone , 
   > and you'll still get the turkey either way.

You may have a valid point and may be I should track down as to where my
request is in the pipeline since it has been 2 yrs since I filed it. At
least I got an award to show for :-)

>Note 237.133

   > Hasn't the turkey debate been done to death already?
    
Yes but so has been the turkey for the past 2 yrs since my request.

-Atul

                     <<< Note 237.137 by RANGER::PANDYA >>>


>You may have a valid point and may be I should track down as to where my
>request is in the pipeline since it has been 2 yrs since I filed it. At
>least I got an award to show for :-)

Atul - I work for the DELTA program. Turkey "issues" come up fairly frequently
for us and so we requested that the Employee Recreation folks write a standard
memo regarding the turkey "situation".  This memo resides in the VTX DELTA
application in the section called "Frequently Asked Questions".  Our records
show that as soon as the memo was updated this year we left you a voicemail
message pointing you in that direction.

                < Note 237.138 by CAPNET::CROWTHER >

>Atul - I work for the DELTA program. Turkey "issues" come up fairly frequently
>for us and so we requested that the Employee Recreation folks write a standard
>memo regarding the turkey "situation".  This memo resides in the VTX DELTA
>application in the section called "Frequently Asked Questions".  Our records
>show that as soon as the memo was updated this year we left you a voicemail
>message pointing you in that direction.

   The standard DELTA memo regarding the turkey situation (VTX DELTA) is 
 appended below. It does not respond to the issue raised by Atul...some of 
 us really do not want our work for Digital to be appreciated in the form 
 of a dead bird !

-------------------------------------------------

 Update to Holiday Turkey Distribution    (6-10-92)

To suggest canceling turkeys is understandable considering the current
financial state of the company.  However, through the years, this program has
been a way for Digital to say thank you to employees for their hard work and
efforts in support of the Company.  It's also one of the few times when we
have a chance to show our appreciation to employees' families.  And now more
than ever, when business isn't as good as we'd like it to be, and employees
are working their hardest to help turn things around, it's important that we
remember this.

Vendor commitments have been made for this year. Hopefully, we'll be in a
better financial situation next spring when we review this program, and will
not have to think about canceling which would surely disappoint the thousands
of employees and families that enjoy it each year.

Sheila Fantozzi,  Corp Employee Services and Recreation

----------------------------------

                     <<< Note 237.139 by KISHOR::MITTAL >>>
                       -< DELTA reponse is no-response >-

First of all, this is not a "DELTA" response.  It was written by the person 
responsible for this area of company decision making - the Corporate
Manager of Employee Recreation and Activities.  We are simply making
it available to folks should they want to a) know what the company's policy
is, 2) want to know who to contact in the company to ask questions or
get more information.

If you wish to get the company's policy changed, you now know who to lobby.
 
Good luck!

    RE: .133 by PLAYER::BROWNL 
    
    >Hasn't the turkey debate been done to death already?
    
    I dunno, Laurie, has the little thing popped up yet?
    

    REF .-1
    
    what is wrong of being a vegy? there are many DECeee's who are vege'ees
    and we should be proud of them too, remember, we must value our
    differences.
    

    I'm sorry to bring this up but I heard....just a rumore mind you...that
    DEC or Ken had some interest in a turkey farm somewhere.
    
    I'm not joking, it was a serious subject.
    

     At this point in time WHO CARES ABOUT A TURKEY 10-13lbs? Does anyone
    out there not understand why this company is losing money? Unfortunately
    TFSO should of occurred at least 6years ago with a freeze TRUE FREEZE
    on hiring. If anyone looks at the balance sheet we continue to increase our
    revenues, the internal cost of sales is killing us. This isn't only
    related to the sales staff, it's wide spread.  Everyone who spends the
    majority of their 8 hour day logged into this system is wasting Company
    asset's.
     I have a hard time understanding how SO many people have the luxury of
    spending the majority of their time logged into the notes files during
    company time when they they are out straight performing multiple jobs
    when really if their 8 hour is 8am to 5pm their logged into the notes
    file half of the day.......... Please explain, I am trully an
    overworked employee which doesn'y agree with all of senior management
    decisions but need a JOB.
    
                                                                      

    (let me check my watch...yeah, it's after work hours)
    
    In order to put everyone at rest, the allocaton on turkeys has been
    immediately changed to 5-10 lbs. This should help with our bottom line.
    The downside of this of course is that we run the risk of having a lot
    of overweight turkeys roaming around.

    I read the veggie perspectives, and I hear what you are saying.  Also
    respect your desire not to kill animals for food.  But I'd like to
    point out that many people who do not accept their holiday gift from
    the Company also donate it to charity.  For the benefit of the prior
    noter, I don't read notes during Company time.  Also, I think that the
    gift is positive, because it really doesn't cost that much per
    employee, it's a goodwill gesture, and cancelling it is not going to
    solved DEC's problems.

    Three or four years ago, I put my father, who is retired and does
    charity work, in touch with the appropriate person in the Maynard area
    who handled the distribution to charities.  On behalf of the Veterans
    Administration Hospital in Brockton Ma., he picked up a couple dozen
    turkeys.  Those turkeys went to feed veterans who are out-patients. 
    These vets can bearly take care of themselves, as a result of injuries
    sustained in war, or in many cases, as a result of alcohol or drug
    addiction.  Last year, Digital, or rather 48 employees, donated four
    dozen turkeys to this VA Hospital.  The VA had to send out a van, as
    it was too much for my dad to handle.  To me this is better than
    writing a check and not understanding how a charity will spend the
    money.

    I don't want to get into the debate of the morality of meat versus 
    veggies, but personally, I hope that Digital keeps up the tradition.

    Bob
   

    ref .146
    
    >In order to put everyone at rest, the allocaton on turkeys has been
    >immediately changed to 5-10 lbs. This should help with our bottom line.
    
    have they really did that! i mean change the weight of the DECturkey!
   
    this is really good news for me, because last x-mass , the turkey that 
    DEC gave me was too big and i had hard time finding a big enough
    container to thaw it in, i started by filling the bath tub with water and 
    throwing the thing in it, it was a big mess.

    but now, with the smaller DECturkey, i can use a pan i had which should
    fit it just right.

    /nasser

	Too BIG?????

	I don't think I've ever bought a turkey under 20 lbs.....

	I'm glad we've not off erred this "perk"

	Heather

    I always give my turkey away and usually let DEC do it for me (the
    d**n thing is just too small for us! plus we buy a turkey ~every 2
    weeks).
    
    What I read a few back, now it looks like I'll be taking my turkey
    to a local shelter: I (personally) don't want my turkey going to drug
    or alcohol addicts! If one can afford drugs and/or alcohol, one can
    afford a turkey.
    
    Ogre.

    Sounds like it's probably a moot point, but I've always wondered: 
    
    should it be DECturkey, or DIGIturkey?
    
    Thanks,
    Chet

    I would go with "congratulations, you've just recieved a DECbird"...but
    we probably have a staff of professionals to impement decisions like
    this.....
    
    8^)

    re.151 umm, just what sort of people do you think inhabit the local
    shelter?

    your right:  I was thinking shelter because i was thinking about
    families down on their luck and I read about charities without thinking
    shelter could equal charity.
    
    So, now- anyone that wants my turkey that can honestly use it, please
    send me mail.
    
    Ogre.

Re .151:

> I (personally) don't want my turkey going to drug or alcohol addicts!

Re .154:

> re.151 umm, just what sort of people do you think inhabit the local shelter?

Huh? Leaving aside the sweeping generalization about those in shelters,
I personally would have no problem with my turkey going to a drug or alcohol
addict.

Re .155:

> So, now- anyone that wants my turkey that can honestly use it, please
> send me mail.

Ah, but how can you be sure that the Digital employee who asks for your
turkey isn't a drug or alcohol addict? Will you be administering a
urine test? Or will we have to sign a pledge that we won't give it to
a shelter (which might contain, God forbid, some addicts)?

    the offer is closed; I know of a family in my neighborhood that can use
    the turkey.  I know them well enough to know they are not drug/alcohol
    dependant.
    
    This year I didn't really expect to give my turkey away to some
    stranger anyway.
    
    Ogre.

    Hm, a memo floated out to us that there aren't going to be turkeys
    this year.  And that apparently they cost $35 apiece.  Let's see, at
    $35x100,000 employees, more or less, we can save $3 and a half mill.

    re .158
    
    
     *   Hm, a memo floated out to us that there aren't going to be turkeys
     *   this year.  And that apparently they cost $35 apiece.  Let's see,
     *   at $35x100,000 employees, more or less, we can save $3 and a half mill.
         
    Many don't receive turkeys or anything else anyway, so your numbers are
    way off.

    $35 for a 12-13 lb bird, thats almost $3.00/lb!!!!
    

    i think the expense comes not from the meat itself, it has a lot to do
    with the packaging (the turkey comes in a nice big box), and it has
    to do with cost of distribution, note that the turkey must be kept
    frozen all the time it is in the truck, you must not thaw the
    turkey until you are ready to cook it, if you thaw it before , then
    you must cook it immediately, else it will go bad.

    /nasser
    an_expert_on_all_trukey_related_matters_and_getting_better_by_the_minute
    

    Am I missing something?
    
    Like that part of the equation which shows the relation between holiday
    turkeys and value added activity which customers will pay for?
    

Lemme see.... two bucks for the box, fifty cents a pound with volume
discounts .... thirty five bucks total .... sixty-six pound birds, huh?

No wonder we're talking about not doing this again this year. That's a
lot of leftovers and in these lean times, we have to be a lot more
carefull with our resources....

     I don't buy it.  $35 per bird sounds like one of the "facts" in the
recent campaign commercials.  The handling for the turkeys getting to your 
local market are not terribly different from that of the birds getting to us
(except for the box).

                                     Greg

    
    
    Aahhhh yes, but remember they are distributed by "managers", with
    big salaries!!!!!!
    
    

And also remember, that the turkeys come with all the shipping and packing
inserts, cardboard, shrinkwrap, etc etc crap that we send with every item 
that gets sent out the door! ;-)

Keith R>

    re .167
    
    and also a licence to kill:- QA-COOKY-ME ;^)

    
    Re:
    
>    and also a licence to kill:- QA-COOKY-ME ;^)
    
    I think you've got that wrong. QA-COOKY-ME is just the turkey itself.
    If you want to kill it you need QL-COOKY-ME (that comes separately
    in its own PAK). If you need to understand how to kill it you need
    QT-COOKY-ME but you only get to find out about that when you read the
    Silly Turkey Description (SPD) packed in 5 layers of cardboard box.
    To find out how to order QT-COOKY-ME you need to call the local
    turkey farm who'll probably refer you to some guy that lives next door
    to Bill Clinton in Arkansas.
    
    Woops wrong note.
    
    Dave

re     <<< Note 237.169 by SMAUG::GARROD "Floating on a wooden DECk chair" >>>
  
Don't forget that you need a different part number for each oven you may 
want to use.  Brands and UI styles (self cleaning or not) each require 
different QA, QT, and QL numbers.  If you are ging to cook the bird at 
Grandma's house remember to have the proper neighborhood license.

matt

>     Silly Turkey Description (SPD) packed in 5 layers of cardboard box.

SPD is, of course, Silly Poultry Description.

   Gary

    
    You may also need a different PAK, depending on the capacity of your
    oven.
    

    Now were you going to eat this turkey all by yourself?  Then you
    need a Personal Use PAK.  Or is it going to be a family meal?  Then
    you'll want  a Capacity PAK.  
    
    			Steve

    Ok, serious question--
    
    If you have a Personal Use PAK, does that mean only one person can eat
    the licensed turkey, or can many people eat as long as no two or more
    people are eating simultaneously?
    
    Secondly, just what type of contract is needed if you wish to make
    turkey sandwich's, tureky soup, etc.?  Is a right to use license
    needed?
    
    --- Gavin (checkin' his license agreement for any possible loopholes)

If turkeys are covered by LMF,
does LMF help you manage your turkeys?
				/AHM

RE:        <<< Note 237.172 by WLDBIL::KILGORE "Bill -- 227-4319" >>>

>    You may also need a different PAK, depending on the capacity of your
>    oven.
    
What about Microwave vs. conventional oven?  BIG difference there  :-)

-  David

    Shame on ya'll; after all that complaining about our part numbering
    system......most of you had it figured out all along :-)
    
    Karen
    

	Is a different PAK needed if you are going to cook the turkey
	stuffed? Also is there a list of side dishes that are supported
	with a DECturkey?

			Alfred

RE:     Also is there a list of side dishes that are supported
	with a DECturkey

Well, since you asked, I looked in VTX FOWL and found that there are two
versions of DECturkey

1. Turkey with Giblets - Production Environment

2. Turkey without Giblets - Run Time Environment Only

Keith R>

    side dishes are SERVED with the turkey, so ya' need Server license.

    Any food posioning resulting from eating the turkey will require an
    "SPR"...
    
    Salmonella Poultry Report!
    
    MJS

and if you want the pop-up timer, you'll need ...



The Development Kit

    Just got this off the 'net...
    
    Marketing is proud to announce the new licensing of our various holiday
    meals.  Where in past years separate license PAK's were require to
    prepare and serve holiday meals, this is the first year a combination
    PAK will allow our customers to serve their meals without the hassles
    of having to register multiple PAK's.
    
    The new TAS (Turkey and Sidedishes) PAK's to announced are:
    
    TAS-100
    
    For low-end cooks who wish to have the basics of a holiday meal without
    the added cost of family, friends, and exotic side dishes.  Included in
    this no-frills PAK:
    
    DECturkey (Single-user License)
    DECstuffing (Single-user License)
    
    TAS-500
    
    For small families (two spouses, and up to 2.3 children) who want the
    culinary fare served by their parents and grand-parents.  A fully
    balanced configuration, the TAS-500 PAK includes:
    
    DECturkey (400 units)
    DECstuffing (400 units)
    DECranberry (50 units)
    POTATOS for TAS (400 units)
    DECyams (50 units)
    
    NOTE: All included licenses are "traditional" meal licenses.
    
    TAS-1000
    
    Includes all of the TAS-500 offerings, but with a power rating of 2000
    units for basic licenses, and 250 units for "served" products (DECyams,
    etc).  Also included is:
    
    DECorations
    DEChristmas
    
    NOTE: At press time, power ratings have not been assigned to these
    products.
    
    Happy Thanksgiving ya'll,
    
    --- Gavin

    
    Hey, watch it on that SPR stuff!  I process all USA SPR's and product
    planning has not provided a support unit for review and elevation to
    engineering.  I do not plan on processing these myself; maybe I should
    forward them all to the CDC :-)
    
    Also we have forgotten the numbers for the cooking bag and roasting pan
    or are these included in the new PAK numbers to be announced?  
    
    Ah!  Better idea on the SPR's for the DECturkey - we'll blame it on the
    cafeteria - we can CLD those :-).
    
    Ken
    

Due to health reasons, none of the DECturkeys will be shipped with FIS (Factory
Installed Stuffing).  The stuffing, which must be ordered separately, will come
packaged in its own packaging and must be installed by the operator once th
DECturkey is unpacked.

    
    Re .184:
    
    Let me guess; CLD --> Criminally Large Drumstick?
    

The cover letter should warn that if the user eats too much DECturkey, they may
feel SCSI or at least a little bit DSSI.

Sorry.

Paul

    Please note that the DECturkey should be eaten in one piece, since the
    licence does not grant permission to decompile or reverse-engineer. If you
    want to know more about how a turkey works, take a DECturkey Internals
    Course.

    Humorous as these replies may be, they are obviously not based on the
    realities of the world at Digital.
    
    How do I know?
    
    
    It's obvious.... I've understood them, even the ones with Q-numbers.
    
    JohnK (-:

Re: SPRs

If you think the paperwork is bad, think about the attachments! :-Q

Re: TAS-500 package
You left out:

OpenWine for DECTurkey V'92

;-)

    These aren't DECturkeys after all.
    
    DECturkeys would come in 13 boxes on 4 separate trucks.
    
    DECturkeys would come with a little screwdriver (phillips, if the
    screws holding the turkey together are slotted).
    
    DECturkeys would arrive around Valentine's Day.
    
    John H.

    don't forget to quote services,
    
    onsite support for turkey cooks
    remedial phone support for turkeys
    enhanced phone support for turkeys
    and the all important
    electronic support for turkeys (1001 recipes available online)
    also advanced predictive diagnostics served via the DECsniffer placed
    in the oven (or DECsiffer microwave option for microwave turkeys)
    
    Simon

    I really think what most customers want is ready to use DECturkeys, 
    very people people now days want to bother with setting up the DECturkey 
    themselves in the oven and thawing it and all that work, what we 
    need to give customers is pre-cooked-DECturkey, pre-installed-fillings, a 
    ready to use DECturkey, just plug-in and enjoy. a complete solution
    pre-packaged ready to use.

    something like what you get now from your frozen-section, little
    more expensive per pound, but more convent for people to consume it.

    /nasser

    		Would Recover-All be available for DECturkeys?

    What I would like to know is who are the
    Program manager, Marketing manager, Project manager and Product manager
    of DECturkeys.
    
    --Ritva
     

    I've just discovered that DECturkey can't be quoted properly through
    AQS. In AQS there is a list price but standard price says N/A.
    Apparently this means that our salesreps can't sell DECturkey bundled
    with a warranty.
    
    So far we're totally unsure of how to fix the price file. We've begun
    to research the problem but are running into the DECmollasses process.
    
    The above story is based on fact, product names have been changed to
    protect the innocent.
    
    Dave

    
    
    RE: DECturkey support lines
    
    
    Ah!  But yet another product to be included - DSNturkey-link.  On line
    instructions for perparing and serving the bird.  Then again the
    customer might prepare the modem and try to connect via the DECturkey. 
    
    So much for thought!
    
    Ken
    

    Forget the idea of turnkey turkeys.  The customers we need to target
    require SI (systems indigestion) projects; that's where the margins
    (margarines?) are.
    
    

    DECturkey is, of course, a component of Advantage Kitchens...

    .200

    Dave, But is'nt Open'DECturkey is what the future is all about?, because
    if it is open , people can take the stuffings from one turkey and
    stick inside another turkey without having to worry about the taste of it 
    being incompa'table with the other turkey.

    I think Iam seeing some great ideas expressed here more than another
    time, I think thinking of our problems using such down to earth terms 
    has made it more easy for every one to digest the process and get to the 
    meat of the issues.

    /nasser

    I was informed by a usually impeachable source yesterday, that there is
    one person dedicated full time to managing the whole DECturkey
    business.  It takes a complete year to manage the entire pipeline so
    that digits in the gma can get the bird!
    
    
    Dick

    You people are silly!!!   If Dec were to get into this business
    wouldn't it be a Alpha based VIRTUAL REALITY PROGRAM that would emulate
    the first Thankgiving dinner???   Just think of it,,, cold damp log
    cabin with dirt floors, skinny turkey with very little white meat,
    Real cramberries (yuk! I like the kind that looks like Jello)   

    This new decision by DEC i strongly disagree with, i have decided
    to detonate my turkey for good will since i dont agree with this,
    we received this in mail today for changes in Turkey distribution,
    
    i removed the from names since i did not take authority to put it
    in, but it was wide distribution all over the facilities and hence
    it is public informations policies.

    

<Distribution List Suppressed>
FROM : XXXXXX  <---- I put the XXX's here not the original authoor (nasser)
Subj:	HOLIDAY TURKEYS


As you know, the Corporation is continuing its efforts to reduce expenses
which do not contribute to our goal of profitability.  Some recent examples
include the cancellation of the Canobie Lake outings and more stringent
control over travel expenses.  As part of this effort, we are modifying
the 1992 holiday turkey distribution program in the U.S.  Digital has
had a contract with turkey growers since the spring, due to the time
required to raise the turkeys, and we feel bound to honor that contract.
However, the one element which had not be contracted by the summer was
the slaughtering and dressing process associated with the turkey distribution
program.

As such, we are announcing that turkeys will be distributed this year and
'turkey cards' are being distributed with paychecks the week of November 16.
However, the turkeys will be distributed live.  Penned in areas have been
constructed at each distribution site and the turkeys will be delivered
to the pens the day of turkey distribution.  Employees may personally
select the turkey they wish to take.  Each employee will receive printed
instructions on the slaughtering, feather removal and dressing process.
For those employees who would prefer not to do this function, names of
local slaughter houses and butchers will be provided.  In addition, care
instructions will be provided for those employees who wish to keep their
turkey as a pet.  Due to the nature of turkeys, it is advised that all
employees have an old blanket or cloth in their car to prevent stains.

The days for turkey distribution at each site will be announced locally.
We are sure you will support our efforts to continue to reduce Digital's
costs and wish you a happy holiday season!

<Distribution List Suppressed>

    Uh, Nasser, exactly how are you planning to detonate your turkey?
    
    Especially considering I only sit a few offices away!

    
    Ref:  205
    
          Please tell us... I do not want to be around either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          when the bird goes off................

    Turkey detonation?  Clever.  That way you make your point, cook the bird 
    and distribute it all in one step ...
    
    Steve

    In re unauthorized letter on turkey distribution policy...

    There is a message somewhere in this conference indicating that letter
    is a hoax and that the author stated that appropriate security measures
    would be taken -i think- because of unauthorized use of the account
    from which the message was sent. 
    I'm astonished at the hubris involved with reprinting that memo in
    spite of the above.

I suggest that pictures be supplied of managers, VP's,
political figures, etc., which can be put over the 
turkey's head before slaughtering. This could be a stress
relief as well. Of course, there might not be enough of 
some turkeys left to detonate.

    .208

    i dont know what hubris means but i know coming from you to me
    it must be bad, and DONT CALL ME A TURKEY !

    i know you insinuating that from you title message , and I DONT
    PREEN whatever that is, i think you are the who preen and who hubris
    not me, and what makes you so such an authority to some tell me
    what i can and cant reprint here? you are not the mod and the mods
    will not call others turkeys any way.

    you must think you are being smarty by saying that on me, you already
    said bad thing to me long time ago, and now you call me preen and
    hubris too , but i warn you now, IAM NOT A TURKEY, AND if you call me a 
    turkey one more time, or something like that i'll come back here and 
    call you a turkey too, and we call keep calling each other turkeys until 
    the cows come home, i dont care.

    /nasser

    There is a lovely yiddish word for hubris, it is chutzpah.

    re .210
    
    Nasser, and just whose home do you expect those cows to come to?  I've
    no more room.

    .212

    Rick, this is just an expression , when one says i'll keep doing something
    until the cows come home, its another way of saying that they do it
    no matter how long it takes, i said that to show .211 that he cant 
    keep hassling me in these DEC facilities because only mods can do it, it 
    is ok then , but not other DECeees. he thinks just nilly Wiley he can
    come and tell me iam like turkey in front of hundreds of thousands of
    people like this because i was just doing service and posting the new
    policy of DEC in regards to the turkey distributions.

    any way, i dont want this to be a rat holes again, and sorry about
    dragging this but i had to say something, so lets stop it and go back to 
    the main discussions.

    /nasser

    re .213
    
    Thought so, but just thought I'd check.  You may be on to something
    though.  I would much rather have a cow than a turkey.  More food, less
    chance of spoilage, and no DARK meat.  I am concerned about my wife
    though.  She didn't like having a baby, let alone a turkey, or worse
    yet a cow!   Another thought.  I hear that the Chinese are making coats
    of rat fur.  We could do the same with cows, and sell the cost at the
    Decbig and tall shop.
    
      -- Rick

    ... if the chickens come home to roost
        ... until the cows come home,
            ... pretty soon you end up having to 
                ... detonate the house
    :-)?

    I know that some quadrupeds (e.g. horses for instance, although
    probably not cows) understand the concept of a shoe being on the other
    foot. I wonder whether turkeys can?

    Cows can be shod, too!

    <I hear that the Chinese are making coats of rat fur.  We could do the
    <same with cows, 
    We already do that. Aren't there some ruffians mens who drive big angry
    harlem davisson motoricicles, and ware black cow jackals and
    horsestales and bierds and chains and drink biers and kill mary janes.

    Please!  Let's keep the talk about TURKEYS!  Goodness knows, there is
    still plenty of meat on this topic.
    
    Mark

re .208

>There is a message somewhere in this conference indicating that letter
>is a hoax 

	The astonishing thing is that someone felt it necessary
	to announce that it wasn't true.   How could anyone
	believe otherwise?
   

>>	The astonishing thing is that someone felt it necessary
>>	to announce that it wasn't true.   How could anyone
>>	believe otherwise?
    
    	It may or may not be in the latest Webster's, but there's more than
    	one definition of "turkey"...:^)
    
    B.

    .....this has been done, actually, on National TV last weekend here in
    Holland by a controversial comic named Paul de Leeuw. He does a show with
    an audience in the studio, they all went outside, then he shoved a
    firecracker into the turkey, and lit it. Turkeymeat all over the studio,
    and it was a giant blast as well! After that the audience came back in,
    they watched the explosion on tape.

    This was done to show the danger of these firecrackers, actually. Every
    year several people have their hands or fingers torn off by these, and
    still people play the game of "hold it in your hand as long as you dare".

    Nasser, should you need any specific directions, I can see if I can find
    this show on video for you ;-).

/nasser

>    i know you insinuating that from you title message , and I DONT
                -----------


That's disgusting.  Please stop talking about our sinew /nasser, especially
giving it a title massage.

By the way, does the "/" in  "/nasser" have to be pronounced?  or is it a
silent "/".  I only ask this because for some reason when people see my
name "Armen" they always pronounce it "Armond" as if the "en" somehow
goes through some kind of phonetic transcription into "ond".


Armen

>By the way, does the "/" in  "/nasser" have to be pronounced?  or is it a
>silent "/".  I only ask this because for some reason when people see my
>name "Armen" they always pronounce it "Armond" as if the "en" somehow
>goes through some kind of phonetic transcription into "ond".

	I have a similar problem. People keep assuming the "fred" in "Alfred"
	is silent. People seem to have trouble with names.

			Alfred

    
      I can sympathise.  My family had to change the spelling of our 
    surname because so many people didn't know three's were silent.
    
    Ken She3rk

    Hey, did you see the Blondie comic in the Sunday funnies?  Dagwood got
    a live turkey from his employer...

    Murphy Brown had a rerun of her Thanksgiving show from where Miles
    brings LIVE turkeys to the soup kitchen they're volunteering at and
    Murphy tries to use breadcrumbs from the dressing to lead the live
    turkeys INTO the oven.  I couldn't stop laughing! 

                  <<< Note 237.229 by OOKALA::RWARRENFELTZ >>>

>    Murphy Brown had a rerun of her Thanksgiving show from where Miles
>    brings LIVE turkeys to the soup kitchen they're volunteering at and
>    Murphy tries to use breadcrumbs from the dressing to lead the live
>    turkeys INTO the oven.  I couldn't stop laughing! 

Reminded me of the WKRP episode with the live turkeys being dropped out of
the helicopter . . .

"I didn't know turkeys couldn't fly . . ."  Les Nessman

    Digression and correction,
    
    It wasn't Les Nessman who said that, it was Arthur Carlson, the station
    manager. He said, something on the order of "As God as my witness, I
    thought turkeys could fly." Les Nessman was reporting live from the
    ground--"Oh, there's something coming out of the helicopter now. It's a
    round object...uh, a skydiver, perhaps..."

    Oh bother,
    
    My wife has found out about the latest craze at Dec and wants me to
    hire a turkey detonater.
    
    /Nasser, do you do any catering?
    
    Ken

    .232
    Ken:
    
    I hope ?nasser caters better than he spells...  :-)

    
    thanks you fellow future customers and current colleges for the entrust
    you put on me with your xmass cookings, yes, i do plan to get into the 
    catering business, but i have to wait to make my decision on the DEC 
    7th time frame, if i decide upon it, i'll start taking appointments then . 
    i plan to specialize in turkeys off course.
    
    i'll also give discounts for DECees offcourse, but
    please note that i only cook it , you have to give me the stuffings and 
    the grill too and whatever you want to go into it. and i DONT DO ANY
    THAWING , please make sure you thawed it before you call our offices with 
    your order number.

    thank you,
    //nasser
    the future proud owner of *the'loving'turkey'cooking'catering* cooperations.

    Nasser,
    
    Thanks for the only bright spot in an otherwise VERY bleak day :-)
    
    Karen
    1-800-DEC-SALE
    

    re: .235
    
    Karen,
    
    Should that be,
    
    		1-800-DEC-SOLD
    
    

    re: 236
    
    More like 1-800-DEC-DEAD!
    
    K
    
    Someone mentioned out-sourcing; oh that we could be sold.....and
    then perhaps continue providing suppport to internal sales personnel
    and our distributors......
    

    
    
    Nasser, 
    
    
    	If you want to expand operations I am sure there are many
    Ex-Deccies that would be happy to have a part time holiday job.  You
    publish the guide and we can follow the directions. 
    
    
    Ken
    

    Nasser,
    
    If there are any detonators left over, perhaps we could cater some
    tater craters. 
    

    i'll be more than delighted to have my ex-fellow DECees join me in 
    lunching the efforts and helping me with starting the future
    the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc. 

    we can divide the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc.
    into four divisions, the turkey enters into one division, and leaves
    fully cooked from the fourth division, i think 4 divisions should be
    enough to handle cooking the turkey, even if the order was for a 
    fully stuffed one too. 

    iam really looking forward for this venture capitol and getting it off
    the ground, i think the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations 
    will soon be the envy of all, i could not have done it really
    without all the help and hard work and dedications of my fellow ex-DECeees.

    /nasser
    the future CEO of the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc.

    Interesting that we got our turkey cards with last week's paystub, but 
    the facility has yet to inform anyone when the big delivery day will
    be.  Anyone seen a listing of T-days by facility?
    
    Mark
    

    The schedule is in VTX LIVEWIRE.
    
    Jim C.
    

    Oh well, once again folks in the NE get turkeys and the field gets
    "the bird" :)
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  /nasser, if you find one with my name on it, please mail to
    	 ALF1-2/T20.
    
    

.230 and .231

"Ohhh like so many wet bags of cement.."

    1-800-sold-out ,,, sorry to see you go.

    It looks like they forgot to put MLO, PKO and MSO on the distribution
    list....I wonder what that means???
    
    

    MLO and the rest are there. The person who extracted that info
    from LIVEWIRE didn't extract the whole thing. Dec 15 for MLO
    I believe.
    
    If one gets a turkey ticket, gets the word on the 7th and is gone
    on the 15th are they still entitled to a turkey? I heard this asked
    today.
    
    My response was that I really doubt that they would care much about
    a $5.00 turkey.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

	GMA News Briefs                     LIVE WIRE

                     Holiday turkey distribution schedule

  Tuesday, December 1:
  ASO, BGR (Augusta, ME); BOO, BXO (Boston, MA); BTO (Burlington, VT; CBM, 
  CRL (Cambridge, MA); GTO (New London, CT); PLO (Portland, ME); PVO 
  (Providence, RI); RCH (Rocky Hill, CT), SCO (Bridgeport, CT); SPO 
  (Springfield, MA); WFO (Westfield, MA); WMO (Westminster, MA)

  Thursday, December 3:
  LMO, MRO (Marlboro, MA)

  Friday, December 4:
  DDD, NQO, NUO, TTB, ZKO (Nashua, NH); DOO (Contoocook); GSF (Hudson, NH); 
  MKO (Merrimack, NH); NIO (Salem, NH)

  Monday, December 7:
  FXO (Franklin, MA); HLO (Hudson, MA); NRO (Northboro, MA); OGO (Stow, MA); 
  SHR (Shrewsbury, MA)

  Wednesday, December 9:
  BLK (Billerica, MA); DAS (Andover, MA); LJO, LKG, LTN, TAY (Littleton, MA); 
  TWO (Tewksbury, MA)

  Friday, December 11:
  ACO, AKO (Acton, MA); BXB, BXC (Boxborough, MA); DSG (Westford, MA); HNO 
  (Bedford, MA); OFO, RMS (Burlington, MA); WAO (Waltham, MA); WOO (Woburn, MA)

  Tuesday, December 15:
  MLO, MSO, PKO (Maynard, MA)

>    MLO and the rest are there. The person who extracted that info
>    from LIVEWIRE didn't extract the whole thing. Dec 15 for MLO
>    I believe.
 
	I thought I had done a SAVE/ALL but I guess I didn't. .243 now
	has all the sites.

	The Mill and PKO and MSO are the 15th BTW.

			Alfred

    .249

    >   My response was that I really doubt that they would care much about
    >   a $5.00 turkey.
     
    i dont thing DECees care about it the turkey because of its monitory 
    values, it is those sentimentalize values that they look forward for, 
    those little things that make big differences in our daily life and 
    beyond is what it is all about, no matter how small or sheep the turkey 
    that DEC gives us is, we DECees will still look forwards to it and
    values it deep inside, it is the thoughts of giving and sharings 
    irrregardless of the impending circumstances in this day and age that 
    is the source of it all.

    /nasser                 

    
    Absolutely,
    
      And if you don't want to eat the turkey, detonations can always be
    made to the Salivation army.
    
    Ken

    .251
    
    Ah Nassar you old sentimentalist you.
    
    Now why would one be sentimental about a DEC turkey when one just
    lost their job? Kinda hard to phathom. Now, if they were to deep
    freeze it for 10 years or so and thaw it out for a DECee reunion
    there may be sentimentalism attached to it. Nah, I doubt it.
    
    Jim C.
    
     

    
    	Re: .253
    
    	Since turkeys only remain "good" for about a year when frozen, I'd
    recommend not thawing it for the 10 year ex-DECee reunion but rather
    take it frozen so you can reuse it for the 20 year reunion.  Of course
    this takes up a lot of freezer space for a long time, so perhaps
    /nassar's company can form a Frozen-Turkey-Storage-And-Reunion-Shipment
    division?
    
    							-craig

    RE: .234
    
    /nasser,
    
    A couple of questions:
    
    1. Will you be extending your services outside the GMA? That's outside
    Greater Maynard Area, like here in Chicago.
    
    2. Will you be licensed to cook non-DECturkeys, as long as we provide
    them? Even without the pop up timer?
    
    Please advise
    
    Kevin

RE:        <<< Note 237.250 by CVG::THOMPSON "Radical Centralist" >>>

>	I thought I had done a SAVE/ALL but I guess I didn't. .243 now
>	has all the sites.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, it has all the Greater Maynard Area sites.  It doesn't include the
Colorado Springs sites where turkey distribution will be on December 10... 

-  David

    
    Well there has been no mention of Turkey distribution for the
    Alpharetta (Atlanta), Georgia Site.  Guess the only bird we get is the
    one made by hand. 
    
    Ken
    
    

	RE: .256 I guess I should have said "all the sites listed in the
	Maynard Area Livewire posting." Picky picky.

			Alfred

    
    .257
    >  Well there has been no mention of Turkey distribution for the
    >  Alpharetta (Atlanta), Georgia Site

    i think that is because the DECturkey trucks that carry the turkeys
    to us dont drive that far away, plus the cost of driving our turkeys
    all the way down there will increase the cost of it, and in this days
    of age, every penny saved is a penny gained as the sayings goes.

    if you did not live so far away, you could have had your turkey without
    any problems.

    dont worry, my new the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations 
    inc. ventures will do wide distributions, but until that gets off
    the ground, iam sorry that this is the current situations. just hang
    in there is the best advice i can give right now.

    /nasser



    

Re: .252

Does the Salvation Army really want detonations?

    IF someone decides that Atlanta will get certificates for the local
    grocery store as in the past; I won't get all sentimental about it.
    Now that I've been TFSO'd, the turkey that hopefully I'll be able to
    buy will definitely provide Christmas dinner plus as many meals as my
    little "leftover" mind can dream up :-)
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  Nasser, when you get organized, can I be one of your NATDs 
    	 (Nasser Authorized Turkey Distributors)?????  Ken Steffensen
         is extremely organized and efficient, so you might want to 
    	 consider him also :-}
    

    Karen, our new venture,the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations 
    inc, can use all the sales talents you can gather down in Atlanta,
    if you can find any sales people who are willing to jump ships and 
    come to the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc, then
    we well be more than happy to have a them aboard, there plenty of turkeys
    for every one to sell. please bring Ken along too, you and Ken can
    have a whole division to take care of, the grill division and the
    feather plucking divisions are still without a CEO's , if you are
    interested in these openings you can start right away after DEC 7th.

    thanks for your interests in employments in the
    the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc.

    /nasser
    CEO and chief finical officer and member of the board and chairman of
    the-happy-bird-turkey-cooking-catering-cooportations inc.

    /nasser,
    
    You give new meaning to the term "Pop-Up Timers"........
    
                T-5 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . 0 . . . . . . 

    A local rock radio station is actually going to drop turkeys from a
    helicopter. They've been advertising this now for weeks. 
    
     The call sign is WAQX, "95X", not WKRP.
    
    .mike.

    I heard a news flash that stated that all the people in Arkansas will
    be eating Bologna for Thanksgiving.....
    
    
    
    It seems that they have sent their "Turkey" to Washington
    
    
    arr arr

    The latest edition of PC WEEK has the alleged new Turkey Distribution
    Policy printed in the Katt/Rumors column near the end.  Also has the
    disclaimer that it's a joke.
    Mark
    

    Allow me to recommend the Pepperidge Farm Hearty Turkey Gravy.
    Really adds home-style flavor to your DEC turkey, mashed potatoes,
    and/or stuffing.  Figure one jar for 2 adults.
    
      John

    Can you add it to your Digital supplied Christmas concrete birdbath
    with pink bird.
    
    See vaxcat::ef92 note 232.*
    
    Simon

Article 406 of clari.feature.miss_manners:
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (Judith Martin)
Newsgroups: clari.feature.miss_manners

    . . . .
    
	DEAR MISS MANNERS -- This year my company sent me a gift box
containing, among other things, ham, bacon and sausage. Last year I
received a whole smoked turkey. I have been a vegetarian for over four
years, and am offended even by the sight of such frivolous expense of
life.
	I don't want to offend my superiors at the company, and I know all
employees receive the same gift, so it might not be fair to make an
exception just for me. But how can I prevent this from happening next
year, and what do I do with the corpses in the freezer? Should I send a
thank-you note?
	GENTLE READER -- Unless you work for a grocery wholesaler, it seems
foolish for your employer to spend money on presents, which could have
been put into a Christmas bonus. This being a business relationship, not
a friendship, the company can hardly be expected to know what would
please each individual, as demonstrated by the fact that even such a
conventional item as Christmas food was highly unsuitable in your case.
	But then it seems equally futile to try to explain your individual
preferences in the minimal thank-you note appropriate for an impersonal
gesture. If you must, Miss Manners suggests you thank them for the food
``which, as a vegetarian, I do not eat, but which I have donated to the
homeless.'' Just don't count on this being remembered next year, when
someone else may be assigned to sending out silly presents.
	In a dilemma about giving or receiving presents? Help is available in
Miss Manners' ``Present-Giving'' pamphlet. Send $1.50, plus a long self-
addressed stamped envelope, to Miss Manners, in care of this newspaper,
P.O. Box 91428, Cleveland, OH 44101-3428.
	Feeling incorrect? Address your etiquette questions (in black or
blue-black ink on white writing paper) to Miss Manners, in care of this
newspaper. The quill shortage prevents Miss Manners from answering
questions except through this column.
	Copyright 1992, United Feature Syndicate, Inc.

    hello,

    i know this might be a little early to ask but i was wondering with all 
    the changes we are undergoing relating to the new DEC and things like 
    that, i was wondering if we are going to be given our turkeys this year
    too and if any decisions has been made pertinent to this matter as far as 
    cost cuttings is concerned and whether turkeys is scheduled to be cut 
    along every thing else this year?

    as we remember from last year discussions on this issue that rumors where 
    rampant all over the place that there were going to be no holiday turkeys 
    at all so i wanted to see if we can find out about this issue early this 
    year so we can know the facts before rumors starts to spread again.

    if no policy has been made, any one knows when such a decision might
    take place regarding our holiday turkeys? 

    thank you,
    \nasser

    Re .272:
    
    Nasser - Don't worry, DEC's going to give you the bird this year
    (one way or the other).

re: 272

	I think we already have enough turkeys running around the halls.
But they will not be TSFO'ed because they all belong to the same flock.

    
    Well we did not get turkeys last year or the year before, so I don't
    think we need to even think about it this year. 
    
    Ken
    

        .-1

    >Well we did not get turkeys last year or the year before, so I don't
    >think we need to even think about it this year. 

    iam sorry to hear that Ken, i'll give you my Turkey this year if you
    know how to cook it? last year i forgot my turkey card in the drawer
    and forgot to even denote it too :(

    i was thinking may be i can get twice as much turkey this year since i did 
    not use last year one ?

    \bye
    \nasser

    I heard that Digital will be leasing Canobie Lake Park
    year 'round, and using it for employee day care.  Folks
    from other areas (except GIA) will be transported to CLP
    using Digital's fixed-wing fleet of planes.

    Also that satisfied employees returning from disability will
    receive turkeys, as will grateful folks who have had their
    entire dental bills covered (including cash kickbacks to the
    employee, directly from the service provider)

    Additionally, the next early retirement package will allow
    you to add forty to your age, and thirty to your years of
    service.

    And finally, in FY94 there will be a new car plan for all
    employees that will provide cash bonuses to folks who roll up
    the most personal miles per week/month/quarter.   Commuting
    mileage will be covered.   

    You heard it here first!!!

    RE: .276-
    
    	Yes, but what of the 150% matching 401K contribution and unlimited
    international phone calls?
    
    Phil

    re: last few:
    
    Sounds like a good company to work for...who is it?
    
    ;^)
    
    ps: What about the 20% pay raises each year, and vacation accrual up to 3 
        yrs...

    According to a memo I saw in the ZKO notesfile regarding the Wellness
    Center... 
    
    Who cut the funding     Tom said, in response to a question, that the
                            funding cut is part of Digital's effort to
                            reduce SG&A expenses and return to profitability.
                            The cancellations of, for example, holiday turkeys
                            and the Canobie Lake outings are part of the same
                            effort.
    
                            These decisions are made by a corporate cost-cutting
                            committee headed by Bill Steul and Dick Farrahar.
    

    They canceled the holiday turkeys? When was that announced?  I must
    have been on vacation that week. 

    As the person who took minutes at that meeting, I'm checking with Tom
    for clarification. It's possible I misheard. Sit tight...
    
    					Val

    RE: .282
    
    Sit tight? Hardly.....at this point the turkeys are *still* with us!
    
    Marc H.

    re .282 Tom Fitzpatrick's answer was: "As I understand it," last year's
    turkeys were the last. 
    
    Tom is the personnel manager at ZKO, so he may well be right, but I
    don't believe his hearsay constitutes an official Digital announcement. 
    Anyone who absolutely has to know whether they're getting a turkey this
    year should probably get in touch with Steul's office. (Let us know
    what you find out...)
    
    					Val -- not counting (nor discounting)
    					       my turkey before it hatches

    RE:.283
    
   > Sit tight? Hardly.....at this point the turkeys are *still* with us!
    
    	Marc you don't know just how true your statement is.
    
    Joe

    HHHHHAAAAAA.....HHHHAAAHHHHHAHHHHHAAAAA......
    
    	Just fell outta my chair!!!!!
    
    
    	Good one!!

    Gee where has everyone been, the message went out last year when they
    cancelled the outings that the turkeys last year were the last.
    
    Dave

    re: .287  I thought we weren't talking about TFSO here ...  
    						I'm soooo confused ...  ;^)
    
    Steve

    I work with a turkey year round....I guess on holidays, he's a Holiday
    Turkey.
    
    8*}

    i heard that DECturkeys will be send out this year already stuffed.

    any truth to this rumor?

    \nasser

>    i heard that DECturkeys will be send out this year already stuffed.


	If you mean that DECturkeys are full of it, I'd have to agree.

    >i heard that DECturkeys will be send out this year already stuffed
    
    Please!!! It's DIGITALturkeys now!

    
    Well this seems like as good a place as any to put this.  New rumor
    has it that Digital is leasing space in the CXO Mfg plant to Pizza 
    Hut.  Maybe we will get DECpizza instead of DECturkeys...or would that
    be Digitalpizza?
    
    BTW, I wonder how many "bytes" you can get on a 9" pizza?
    

    Or ... maybe there will be retraining for folks at CXO after all ...
    
    Steve

>>> Please!!! It's DIGITALturkeys now!

... I thought it was TURKEYworks. ;-)

    re Turkeys.
    
      I've heard that each cost center will be provided packages of turkey
    hotdogs (Not-Dogs) in lieu of full-fledged birds.  This trend to a 
    healthier lifestyle will offset any loss of physical well-being resulting 
    from Wellness center closings/fee increases.
    
      Each employee will receive one Not-Dog each and additional ones for
    spouse and each dependent child.  Single employees will receive one
    additional Not-Dog.
    
      Marv
    

>>>                      <<< Note 237.290 by STAR::ABBASI >>>

>>>    i heard that DECturkeys will be send out this year already stuffed.

>>>    any truth to this rumor?

>>>    \nasser


If anything could get Nasser back on the notes file, it would be the
turkey note!

- John

    thanks John, it is just that being given a turkey always made me
    feel special, it is for me what makes DEC different, for example i 
    worked at GM/EDS for 4 years and never, i say ever, they gave me a turkey,
    not even once, i also doubt that many companies give turkeys to their
    employees as DEC does. 

    iam already looking forward for trying to cook my turkey this year, last 
    year i forgot to pick it out and missed on it and had to go to dennys
    resturant for it :(
          
    \nasser

    I always liked the gifts my wife gets. A CD player, microwave oven,
    color TV, down comforter, etc. As well as a monetary bonus. Some
    who didn't deserve anything get nothing, others more others less.
    Of course her business is still making a lot of money and making the
    owner happy. The Holiday parties are quite fun, catered affairs either
    in a funky club, posh restaurant, President suite of a nice Harvard
    Square hotel.
    
    However, she is in a totally different business so comparisons are
    hard to make. I always appreciated the turkey though.
    
    JIm C.
    

    
    I do hope you get the bird then \nasser.

    
    The OFFICIAL (after expensive legal searching) is...
    
    POLYCENTER OPENTurkey with StuffingWORKS for Sundays v1.0
    
    -doug

>    thanks John, it is just that being given a turkey always made me
>    feel special, it is for me what makes DEC different, for example i 

Again, the "Focus" of this company amazes me. Never have I seen so much 
discusssion, speculation, whinning, praise, grief, etc over a $5 Bird!

>    iam already looking forward for trying to cook my turkey this year, last 
>    year i forgot to pick it out and missed on it and had to go to dennys
>    resturant for it :(
          
\nasser, you want turkey, go to the market and buy one! You'll be eating 
the leftovers until late fall. Then Digital will give you another one 
(maybe!) and you'll gladly pass on it.

Charly

    The turkey loss is a big deal to me.  It's worth more than $5 to me.
    Why?  I'm a workaholic.  With the effort I typically put into the
    company I work for, my family (rightfully) challenges me concerning the
    cost it represents to them.  Part of the answer my family demands is that 
    this company represents more than just a paycheck.  The turkey (and Canobie)
    (and the occasional, but now largely non-existant, tokens of appreciation)
    (and occasional, but now infrequent, aknowledging or encouraging word from 
    managers for extra efforts) was evidence that I could use to convince my 
    family that the effort spent was worth it.
    
    Steve

          
\nasser, you want turkey, go to the market and buy one! You'll be eating 
the leftovers until late fall. Then Digital will give you another one 
(maybe!) and you'll gladly pass on it.
*************
Charly,


    I really think that a penny collection closer to the holiday bird
    giving might do the trick here if DIGITALbird (tm) does not fly 
    this year!  We all have some of those round objects kicking around
    our desks that we could set up a fund for /nasser's bird!

    hi, it is this time of the year again, and i was wondering what's
    the turkeys situation is this season? any one heard if we'll get
    our turkeys this year? according to my calendar, it is like only 3
    weeks away to thanks givings and i have not heard any thing yet.

    plus, the turkeys need to be thawed some time before you cook them
    according to the instructions, so really we should start getting them soon
    if we going to get it at all this year ?

    any one knows anything like to share it with us? only facts please,
    no rumors.
    
    \nasser
    who_is_getting_excitied_about_prospects_of_cooking_my_turkey

    we never got them in time for thanksgiving, they came in mid-december
    for christmas, so you'll have to buy one anyway.
    

    OH NO, NOT AGAIN....
    
    For the last time, the turkey has been TFSOd....
    
    	[T]hawed... [F]ixed... [S]tuffed.... and placed in the [O]ven.
    
    So enough with the bird already...
    
    

    
    We've never gotten them at all.

OK here's the scoop on the turkeys:

This year a special holiday program has been put in place. You may
order your turkeys anyway you want them, stuffed, precooked, delivered,
any way you want them. There will be no parking lot pickup as in
years past. Heres how it works: go to your local grocer, meat
market, etc and place your order just like you want it. At the appointed
time pick it up/receive delivery. When presented with the bill pay it.
What could be simpler or more convenient? %^) Just *image* what a morale
booster this program will turn out to be (although theres no morale problem).

    
    re:.309
   
    Mikey,
     
    you've been gettin the bird for some time.
    
    hope this helps
    
    bye

    RE: .311 Alot of good this advice is, coming from a turkey.

RE:                   <<< Note 237.310 by EVMS::GODDARD >>>
    
>>Just *image* what a morale booster this program will turn out to be 

     OK, I just IMAGEd it.  It only got my scanner greasy.

                                      Greg

      I resurrected this from my file.  I'm sure it must have come from this
      conference but couldn't find.  Therefor, I'm posting for those who
      didn't have the pleasure of reading this last year!
    
From:	NAME: U.S. Communications              Date:  02 December 1992
	FUNC: U.S. Communications             
	TEL: 297-2706                         <NOTIFICATION AT A1 at SALES at 
MRO>
To:     See Below


As you know, the Corporation is continuing its efforts to reduce expenses
which do not contribute to our goal of profitability.  Some recent examples
include the cancellation of the Canobie Lake outings and more stringent
control over travel expenses.  As part of this effort, we are modifying
the 1992 holiday turkey distribution program in the U.S.  Digital has
had a contract with turkey growers since the spring, due to the time
required to raise the turkeys, and we feel bound to honor that contract.
However, the one element which had not be contracted by the summer was
the slaughtering and dressing process associated with the turkey distribution
program.

As such, we are announcing that turkeys will be distributed this year and
'turkey cards' are being distributed with paychecks the week of November 16.
However, the turkeys will be distributed live.  Penned in areas have been
constructed at each distribution site and the turkeys will be delivered
to the pens the day of turkey distribution.  Employees may personally
select the turkey they wish to take.  Each employee will receive printed
instructions on the slaughtering, feather removal and dressing process.
For those employees who would prefer not to do this function, names of
local slaughter houses and butchers will be provided.  In addition, care
instructions will be provided for those employees who wish to keep their
turkey as a pet.  Due to the nature of turkeys, it is advised that all
employees have an old blanket or cloth in their car to prevent stains.

The days for turkey distribution at each site will be announced locally.
We are sure you will support our efforts to continue to reduce Digital's
costs and wish you a happy holiday season!

<Distribution List Suppressed>

Greg,
Just *imagine* that I wrote *imagine* but I *imagine* thats too much for you
to *imagine*....right?

>>OK, I just IMAGEd it.  It only got my scanner greasy.
Bummer! Well look at the bright side anything you scan in the future should
zip right thru or you could use the extra for hair dressing.

Hmmm, I just had an idea. How about we ask the company to buy a turkey which
we'd scan in on Greg's scanner. (You wouldnt mind would you Greg? After all
your scanner should be plenty greased up by now.) Then it could be distributed
over the net! Run it thru the UNIX cooked turkey interface and presto
Thanksgiving dinner!  Yum, yum virtual turkey! Kinda brings back images
of grandma's house on Thanksgiving.....

    I KNEW I should have set up a lottery to see the first date
    /nasser would inquire about turkeys :-} :-}
    
    

d | i | g | i | t | a | l			MEMO

From the desk of the president			November 25, 1988
Ken Olsen					

Greetings, fellow workers:

This year marks the twenty second that DIGITAL has distributed turkeys
to employees at Christmas time. 

Because of recent events on Wall Street, and our long-range goals for
the corporation, we have decided to gradually phase out turkey distribution
over the next ten years. 

We will not quit the plan ``cold turkey'' (heh heh), but will gradually
implement it as follows over the next ten years.

		1988	12-15 lb hen turkey
		1989	10-12 lb hen turkey
		1990	6-9 lb hen turkey
	        1991	10-12 lb tom turkey
		1992	Turkey parts (Perdue)
		1993    Turkey parts (supplier TBD)
	        1994	Turkey Pot Pies
		1995	Turkey Pot Pies (Swanson)
		1996	Turkey Roll
		1997	Turkey Hot Dogs
		1998	COLD TURKEY!!!

As we move into the coming decade, we must imrove our competitive edge
in the business world.

I believe that, by getting this large number of turkeys off our back, we
can accomplish this goal.

One Company, One Strategy, No Turkeys!


Regards,

KO

    re: .314
    	On my first year in Valbonne we were given turkeys. They were given
    out on Christmas Eve, all wrapped in foil.
    
    	I took mine home and unwrapped it, and discovered that it was dead
    and partially plucked, but otherwise unaltered from its living state.
    Fortunately my wife has a cookery book that has full instructions, and
    with her reading the instructions while I wielded the knife we removed
    head, neck, innards, surplus feathers, and generally got it into a fit
    state for roasting.
    
    	Later that evening I went out for a company dinner at a restaurant
    in Nice - almost all Valbonne staff attended. During the dinner I
    casually mentioned how I had been spending the earlier part of the
    evening, and caused total panic amongst the U.S. relocatees. All of
    them had just put the foil-wrapped parcel directly into their freezers
    without any examination, and most of them claimed to be
    constitutionally incapable of gutting a bird.
    
    	There were a number of panic telephone calls to ask babysitters to
    remove the turkeys from freezers. As the acknowleged expert (having
    done one) a couple of people brought their turkeys round to my house
    the next day to prepare. Several turkeys were thrown away as their 
    owners just couldn't handle the situation.
    
    	The French, of course, knew that freezing ruined the flavour, and
    that you shouldn't cut the skin until a few hours before cooking since
    this increased the risk of infection and food poisoning. They had all
    expected their turkeys to be delivered like that.

    
    RE: .315
    
    Copying "turkeys" over the net is a waste of resources and is NOT
    allowed.  :-)
    

re .-1

Bummer! Good point. I just got carried away...sorry all.

OK here's what we need to do...remember that college tuition
reimbursement issue? Well the SLT changed their mind(s?) right
quick after all the complains. I propose that we start a similar
campaign to lift the ban on copying scanned turkeys over the
net. How can our customers take us seriously if we dont use our
in house network to its fullest?

    Well, I've heard of bacon bits... How many bacon bits in a bite?

    I've heard (now) of turkey bits.. Does it take more bits per bite when
    stuffed, or unstuffed?

    One other question... are Alpha-bits a 64 bit cereal?

    8^}

    Bob

    	Well, I hope somebody has the good sense to scan in a picture of a
    nice, cooked turkey dinner with all the fixin's, creates a .GIF file,
    and distributes it in early December. Even send the picture to all the
    whiners who never got turkeys and remind us over and over again.

Re. .-1 Geez don't do that...the net police will have to issue a
memo regarding all the excess turkey traffic on the net.

RE: .323
Then we'd have the turkey distribution cancelled twice...

     ref : setting up grass root movement ref the turkey situation.

    if DECeees are really serious about organizing a grass root movement
    like to the that cause our tuition fees to come back, so to try to
    get our turkeys back, i'd be willing to head such a movement, i'll
    organize distribution lists, write letters and articles and send
    memos to our VP's asking about the turkeys and will try to keep all 
    informed about whats going on on the turkey front. but i need to know 
    for sure before i start if you want to me to start this movement, lets 
    make an ultimatum, lets call out movement:
               
               "our turkeys or us, DEC must make the choice !"

    i just worried if we stay quite, the turkeys will go away and
    not come back. but i leave the decision up to you, and iam willing
    to serve you in my full capacity to head such an effort if so desired.

    \nasser

    If you have an old DECturkey box from last year. or before, then it's
    easy to get the bird:
    
    Go to the supermarket, pick out a 12 - 14 pounder, bring it home, box
    it and make believe it's still the good old days...
    
    ;-)

    
    we could turn the Mill into a Turkey farm.   Raise them from peeps and
    pick out our own for the holidays.

    
     OMIGOD !

    i just heard from a very well established and trusted source that
    the official words is out.

                        No turkeys this year !!

    zip, zero, nothing !

    a xmass with no turkey just wont cut it.

    we want our turkeys !

    i just had a feeling getting up this morning that this day wont end up
    right.

    if any DECeees hears any new developments about turkeys, please keep us
    informed, iam sorry but i can't disclose the source i received this 
    information from at this conjuncture.
     
    \nasser

Re .Note 237.330 STAR::ABBASI "only 21 days to go and counting..."
                                -< news flash >-
    
>     OMIGOD !

>    i just heard from a very well established and trusted source that
>    the official words is out.

>                        No turkeys this year !!

     
>    \nasser
    
    
Were you reconsidering your position on bathing?  Better stick to showers
The only DECturkeys this year are already here.
    
    /Bob

Nice so the UK haven't had dinner dances, turkeys or naff all 
(be grateful you get a holiday time!) for xmas for quite a while 
now and of course the US is performing so well they're still 
getting them.




<sulk>