Conference 7.286::digital

    anyone get to look at the services shoping home page outa texas?
    I'll fine it tomorrow and post. 
    
    Contains MANY MANY LARGE companies including, but not limited to
    IBM, EDS, AT&T,SUN, MICROSOFT, and goes on, and on, and on!!!!
    
    Guess what's between DBM and DOD..............
    
    you guessed it!!!!! NOTHING!
    
    Do we really 'have' a marketing organization?
    
    Ken said it best a few years back when he touted he had 15,000
    marketeers working for digital and to that day he STILL didn't know
    what they did for him.   Bet he knows now.  
    
    foot note: I am sure that we have some talented marketiers working
    for us, and I'm sure they are stymied wanting to do the right things
    and can't because the ears of some people can't hear for where they
    are located at the moment!
    
    parrot_trooper

    
    The Internet Business Group has contracted Sametz Blactstone Associates
    of Littleton to consult on a design of a corporate Home Page to be used
    on all corporate Web servers to be connected to the Internet. Any other
    corporate/private user that should connect with Digital Web servers
    would see a solid consistent Home Page. Other competitors have done the
    same.
    
    Mike

    re: .-1
    	amazing.  DEC used to enjoy having very creative and energetic
    people working for it.  there used to be competitions to come up with
    the wizz-way coolest stuff.  what a place to show off our talents and
    ideas to the world.  the WWW home page instead is being contracted to
    (I presume) a bunch of MBA stuffed shirts (no bias here though).

    
    Unbelievable.  Something tells me we have people here who could do this
    for us.  Why don't we start a new trend instead of mimicing what everyone 
    else is doing (contracting out to disinterested parties for WWW
    designs)?
     

I don't think anyone disagrees that our home page could be a bit
flashier, including the folks who've worked hard to get us one at all.
However, after acknowledging that criticism, let me suggest taking a
look at the NSL home page at URL (two levels down from
http://www.digital.com/):

	http://www.research.digital.com/nsl/home.html

and the Digital Customer Services page at URL:

	http://www.service.digital.com/home-g.html

People who browse much deeper than the home page (and most do) will
eventually hit these and other good stuff. Though, again, we all agree
that the top page could be flashier.

My personal criticism isn't so much that the page is bland, but that
our overall hierarchy doesn't come across as sharp and coherent. It
mixes a lot of different levels of detail and organization at each
level. The hierarchy doesn't give one the impression that it was
designed as a whole. And it wasn't.

Not an excuse, but let's not forget that the fact that it exists at all
is practically a volunteer, spare-time effort (and this from "The
Internet Company"). One can hope that the new Internet Business Group
will be spared a bit of the no-more-Post-Its syndrome (while still
remaining cost-conscious, of course - RoseAnn isn't the black limousine
type), and get at least a little investment of the resources it will need.

As to whether we could/should be doing this sort of thing in-house
instead of contracting it out, I sympathize with the sentiment that it
could show a lack of trust in our own abilities. But let's not be
hasty. If a decision to go outside is made by the person tasked with
getting the work done, then it's not necessarily a bad decision,
because we trust that this person knows best how to get his/her job
done. If, on the other hand, some "high-level muckety-muck" said "I
don't have the time to find out if anyone who works for me can do it; I
want it done outside", that's a different story, and I'd be very
disappointed if it were true. But, from my seat, I have no information
to support that assumption, and, judging by the sharp pages mentioned
above (some of the art was done outside), I think the folks "at the
bottom" are doing a hell of a job and making some good decisions with
very little resources, and even occasional resistance (uh, what network
did this reply come from?).

We can probably look for ways to be creative and constructive, like the
guys who put on the show described in topic 3267. Criticism of our home
page is valid; creative proposals are even better.

I will say that the most encouraging thing about this topic is that it
shows a growing awareness and interest in our involvement with the
Internet. Just look at the number of times Internet, the Web, and
Mosaic are popping up in this conference, and you can start to feel
good about being here.

    
    re: -.1
    
    Hope I didn't come across in .0 sounding too harsh! I know that our
    efforts here have all been a grassroots effort, and I know what it's
    like to get grief for things you do in your own time to make the 
    company a little nicer place to work.
    
    But, my point is that other firms are using the WEB as a marketing
    showplace, and since we're there, we ought to be the best! Even with
    flashier graphics, our home page points to product information that's
    out of date. I don't think there's any mention of our consulting or
    services capability, and surely nothing about neat things we're doing
    every day for customers.
    
    Please - to the folks who got us where we are today - you deserve
    applause! But to our marketing people who are touting our internet
    leadership - get on the ball!
    
    Thanks for letting me vent!
    
    /ljj
    

           <<< SOFBAS::NDISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]INTERNET_TOOLS.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< Internet Tools >-
===============================================================================,
Note: 836.0        Special Announcement: DECdirect Interactive Cat 18 replies
CALDEC::RJONES "Russ Jones, Internet Prog Mgr, C    58 lines  15-JUL-1994 19:12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital's DECdirect catalog is now available for Web access.  This
implementation is a test for internal Digital employees for the month of
July.  This is the first full line catalog available on this medium.

We have responded to customers' desires to make the DECdirect catalog easy
to use and available on Intenret for many different users.

DECdirect Interactive on Internet provides information on more than 2,000
hardware and software products at your fingertips.  You can run demos,
check product information, compare prices, and read current articles.

Future versions will have the capability for an interactive order form to
enable customers to order with the convenience of shopping in the comfort
of their home or office, plus the ability to access as much or as little
information as they need to do their job.  This means less waiting, less
time lost from business.

To access the DECdirect Interactive catalog the URL is

        http://topdog.pa.dec.com/DECdirect/ddi/html/ddhome.html

It is accessible via Mosaic, Lynx or any Web browser.

The application is in test mode for internal Digital employees during the
month of July.  Feedback from you, the users, is integral in enhancing the
final version so that our customers are satisifed and use the catalog with
delight. The target date for external release is August 10.

Prior to external release, interactive forms will be available to let
customers order hardcopy version of the DECdirect Catalog, as well as
hardcopy literature fulfillment.  In external deployment, the individual
pages of the catalog will be integrated into the Document Search Engine.
This will allow customer to search for product information within the
scope of just the DECdirect Interactive Catalog or as part of a larger
server-wide document search.

As you use the DECdirect Interactive Catalog please think about the
following and send feedback to:

        Peg Donovon     donovon@aimhi.enet.dec.com or aimhi::donovon
        Russ Jones      rjones@pa.dec.com          or topdog::rjones

Specifically look for the following points in this application:

1.  Overall presentation of screens and usablity.
2.  Content:  Is it useable, is it enough or is it too much?
3.  Navigation vs searching metaphor -- how useful are the
    left/right/up navigation buttons?  Can you find your way around?
4.  Feedback going to a non-Digital mail address?
5.  Images:  clarity, resolution.
6.  Access speed and speed in general.

I do thank you for your participation in this test.  The result will be a
better product for the customer.

Peg Donovon                             Russ Jones
Marketing Manager                       Internet Program Manager
U.S. Marketing - DMO                    Coroprate Communications

    
    I've just tried this, and it's really quite good...
    
    Good work!
    
    /ljj

    That INFOMART home page is 
    
    	HTTP://www.onramp.net//infomart/infomart.html
    
    check it out.
    
    parrot_trooper
    

re: .9

>    That INFOMART home page is 
>    
>        HTTP://www.onramp.net//infomart/infomart.html

LYNX tells me this is a badly formatted URL.  Please post a corrected one.

Thanks.

    One too many //'s. Here's the valid URL:
    
    http://www.onramp.net/infomart/infomart.html
    
    --- Gavin

Russ Jones, Gail Grant, et al have done a SPECTACULAR job creating a presence
for Digital on the internet.  Yes, things could be flashier.  There are some
missing things.  These are being addressed.

When you have a suggestion, click on the "Feedback" button you'll find at the
bottom of most pages.  Or follow the signature link until you get a mail
address and send mail.  As we get more and more info out there, there's more
and more likelihood that oddities will crop up.  Do your part to help keep it
current by providing feedback!

By the way, I doubt the Internet Business Group being set up under Rose Ann
will be doing much in the way of customer information on the Internet.  I
suspect they'll be more chartered with tools and services.  But I'll leave the
question to someone from that group.

j.

re Note 3276.12 by PLUGH::NEEDLE:

> By the way, I doubt the Internet Business Group being set up under Rose Ann
> will be doing much in the way of customer information on the Internet.  I
> suspect they'll be more chartered with tools and services.  But I'll leave the
> question to someone from that group.
  
        I believe that Corporate Communications under Kathleen Warner
        will be taking a lead in getting customer information on the
        Internet.  (Actually, since Russ Jones reports to Kathleen,
        they have already done much, but the level of effort will be
        increased significantly.)

        Yes, the IBG is more "tools and services."

        Bob

    
    FWIW...
    
    My customers love our entry on the WWW but do wish we did keep it more
    up to date.  
    
    I wish I had access to it from my lowly VT3XXX terminal.
    
    Regarding flashy graphics --- MINIMIZE THEM!  The major complaint that
    my customers have about HP's entry is that it takes SOOOOOOOO long to
    load and start up due to that extra stuff...
    
    Remember, KISS...
    
    Bests, 
    
    Don

    you can disable the fancy graphics from loading.
    
    under file somethingorother.
    
    p_t

    
    I am glad to see the constructive turn this note is taking.  I think
    that DIGITAL has done a great job to date in developing our INTERNET
    capability - mostly in a bootleg, side project environment.  
    
    In terms of the interface and Home Page - these are evolving across
    competitors - 3 months ago IBM's was the worst.  An excellent point was
    made above that the more intensive the graphics, the longer it takes
    and the slower the response. And if it takes too long - people will
    just blow past you to the next firm's server.  
    
    I have found the folks working the INTERNET/WWW like Russ and Kathleen are
    very open to suggestions and ideas.
    
    The INTERNET business group provides a needed focus on added value
    sellable services to customers that we only could provide on an ad hoc
    basis until recently.
    
    

    Then I suggest that they open reqs for people in the company that
    have vast internet savvy 'and' Digital experience with products and
    services. Give em some direction and vision, get outa the way, and 
    let them help in getting the corporation back to profitability. 
    
    The philosophy of "Lead, follow, or get outa the way" made another company 
    very sucessful in the not to distant past.  Maybe a lesson in there
    somewhere.  

    Another vote for simple graphics.  I don't have a PC in the office so
    the only place I can surf is at home.  Quality time on the PC is tough
    and it is extremely annoying to sit and wait while the GIF files
    meander across the phone line.
    
    I'm much more impressed by being able to find current data that is
    presented well. 

    re: .19
    
    	Another "hit the nail on the head". Put Dallas' Internet show and
    tell with your suggestion in every Digital office in the US. Bring
    prospects who are both end-users and resellers in every day. I'll call
    my broker in the AM, we'll be rich and famous again.
    
    		DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP - The INTERNET Company
    
    	Mom, let me have another drink of that...
    
    	
    	 	the Greyhawk

    Hey greyhawk, I got another suggestion........it would
    go something like this......
    
    
    Bob, first thing you did when you took command was to do a study
    to prove you are a lowly paid exec......and fooled everyone into
    thinking you were worth another 220 grand!!!!!! Well it's two
    years later, we are another 4 Bil in the hole......Let say we
    take back your 220 grand and buy some paper/pencils/office supplies
    for the workerbees.......  Set up a suggestion box/contest for the
    brightest ideas to help generate revenue.....I heard one yesterday
    that blew my mind......There are actually VMS Cluster managers that
    WILL NOT INSTALL mosaic on their systems to allow PC users to do
    mosaic without worrying about the memory/tsr problems that the old ones
    experience.....their opinion is "it ain't a Digital product...it don't
    go on MY CLUSTER!  "  Maybe the Internet V/P has a job to do tight off
    the bat!  
    
    Other suggestions include taking the people in charge of getting
    us exposure on the I-WAY that DON'T HAVE A CLUE as to how to get there,
    and letting THEM go, and put in place the person that CAN get the
    system installed/working.....this really upset's me when we let the 
    technical folks go, and keep the clowns that require imense learning
    curve to get the job dome. WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME!
    
    Why not propose a tactical team of experts to ensure that everyone
    working the issues if Information SuperHiway exposure and business
    are fluent enough with it, that they KNOW how to get on the web
    and move around a little......you'd be surprised at just how many
    of these 'business types' don't have the foggiest.
    
    p/t

    I did a dir/tit=suggestions and found out that there are several
    notes pertaining to this subject, but nothing 'current'.  Wonder 
    why? I presume that suggestions about improvement of the corporation
    are like Closed captioned television.....(Falls on deaf ears...)
    
    I'd like to propose one again.
    
    
    There is still a desire for some that this company succeed on it's
    road to recovery.....but it won't be without massive efforts....
    
    a few thoughts and suggestions 'to whom it may concern'!
    
    We need to start 'walking the talk' a lot more. People are taken
    seriously when they say something and do something else...I know
    that there are more examples than the ones I know of, but there
    are a couple of glaring ones that come to mind.....
    
    		Pay for Performance........how does one get a 220 K raise
    		when theres been no performance to date? And also, I
    		thought that you got that pay AFTER the performance was 
    		demonstrated?
    
    		The mentality of 'don't do as I do....do as I say'
    		I have another saying that satisfy's the above....used
    		to be my mail header: If you can't manage by 'example'.....
    		then maybe you shouldn't manage?
    
    		Restructuring: I don't want one of Digital's core
    		competencies to become 'Re-organization'....it looks like
    		this is becoming a way of life in some groups. And it's
    		damned unproductive to say the least. We need to state
    		clearly what we want to be when we grow up and DO IT!
    		When you organize for this, you can't have political 
    		appointees for the most critical of positions to lead 
    		the organization into new areas of potential,
    		if you do, I reply simply..."YOU ARE NOT TAKING THIS 
    		SERIOUSLY!" Some of the recent announcements I've seen
    		all over the place is reaking of this phenomenon.
    
    last one.	Downsizing from now on MUST be done with a certain amount
    		of intellegence...The SLT should be involved in making 
    		these decisions. I mean what the heck does Strategic
    		'Leadership' Team mean, if the very core of the companies
    		competence is allowed to be TFSO'd without attempting to
    		understand the long term benefits/drawbacks are not taken
    		into consideration prior to makeing these decisions. I
    		don't know where all of the noters in this conference come
    		from, but where I came from, I can honestly state that the
    		sickness that helped create this phenomenon is STLLL
    		aparent, alive and well...so my last statement echoes what
    		I've stated in the previous note.....Strategiclly LEAD,
    		Strategiclly Follow, or STRATEGICLLY GET OUTA THE WAY!
    
    regards to all those who still believe in what we stand for, strive
    to help us get there, and don't let the politics, lack of vision and
    direction, and downright stupidity of what's going on in the backround 
    prevent us from achieveing our goals.  I commend you all!
    
    Parrot_trooper

    >> I did a dir/tit=suggestions and found out that there are several
    >> notes pertaining to this subject, but nothing 'current'.
    
      Dir/tit=suggestions won't find your suggestions either, since neither
    the topic nor the note title have the word 'suggestions'in them.
    Suggest you extract them and put them in a new topic, titled
    'Suggestions', if you want them to be found by anyone browsing through
    the directories rather than reading every current topic and its
    replies.
    
    Ken
    
    

    Is there a NOTES::CONFERENCE for MOSSAIC?
    
    I'd like to try it out!
    
    
    tony

    See SOFBAS::INTERNET_TOOLS

Matter of fact, I'd suggest echoing some of this constructive criticism in
INTERNET_TOOLS since the readers include many people who are actively involved
in all aspects of Digital's forays into the Internet business.  Haven't seen
many of them participating here.

Jeff, co-moderator of INTERNET_TOOLS

I used to think avoiding neat graphics was a good idea too, too save
time accessing a Mosaic page.  Then I discovered that if you click on the
globe icon at the upper right corner of the Mosaic screen, it cancels
fetching whatever it is fetching.  Since it fetches inlined images last,
what you get is the page with the inlined images replaced by a little
Mosaic icon.  Not obvious, but effective.

One catch is that if you use Back/Forward to move through a partially
fetched page, it will try to get the rest of the inlined images again,
and you have to cancel again.

--Gregg

You can also tell Mosaic to "delay image loading", but I'd rather see
information than a fancy picture.

				Steve

    The new home page is online. See http://www.digital.com/home.html
    
    

	Great, no way for someone with disabilities, like blindness, to
	read anything on our home page..

							mike

Well, if you connect to it with a text-based browser you get a link to
"Table of Contents".  I find the new setup very confusing and hard to
work my way through. 

				Steve

    There was a "contest" showing several different layouts;
    unfortunately, they were all about as bad as this one.

Maybe it's because it's Saturday and I'm not thinking and maybe
ornery, but what could be done to help blind people? Or is that reply
missing a ;^) ?

Maybe we can be a little more constructive, too? I tend to agree with
the last two replies, but let's ask first, shoot later.

Pete

    There's an excellent and award-winning web browser called "Lynx"
    written (with a bit of user-interface polishing advice from me towards
    the end of its development process) by an undergraduate at the
    University of Kansas named Lou Montulli.  He's now working for Netscape
    Communications Co. in Silicon Valley -- and making a princely salary
    while doing it, I might add.
    
    Lynx allows folks who have only character-cell terminal devices to
    "surf" the World-Wide Web quite easily, save that this SW cannot
    (because of the obvious limitations of the HW it runs on) display fancy
    fonts, graphics, video, or sounds.  (It makes a creditable try at
    fancy-fonts if the particular terminal supports boldfacing and/or
    underlining, as our  VT300 series of terminals (and its emulators)
    do(es).)
    
    Many folks within DIGITAL -- who are still strapped to character-cell
    terminals -- have used Lynx to "get their feet wet" on the Web.  Many
    of us who, when on the road, have only dialin terminal-emulation
    connections to Mother DIGITAL, also swear by Lynx as THEIR way of
    letting WebSurf still moisten their toes...
    
    Beginning about 25 years ago, many sight-impaired folks have made
    entire careers in the computer business by marrying braille-display
    technology with character-cell terminal data.  More recently,
    sight-impaired folks from all walks of life have gained access to the
    "info highway" using the same braille-displaying terminal technology as
    it has become more affordable and as the UIs of character-cell
    technology have become simple enough for a non-techie to learn.
    
    The advent of GUIs in general, and Mosaic most particularly, has caused
    great disquiet in the sight-impaired community, because it is not
    obvious, immediately, how their Braille displays could be applicable to
    a mouse-driven world.  
    
    That's why Lynx is such an important link (pun regretted) between that
    community and the Web.  Until something else comes along, that is...?
    
    Others at DIGITAL are far better "plugged in" than I am to the National
    Information Infrastructure debates that are going on now, and I expect
    they'll add to these views and data.  Hope this answers your question!
    

That makes complete sense -- I wasn't aware of the use of
text-to-braille.

I use Lynx exclusively because I haven't yet seen what benefit
graphics provide to me. I do know that response is slower with them,
and my goal is to get my eyes on the text as quickly as possible. When
I need graphical information (maps, graphs, etc.) I'll use a different
browser, but for now, Lynx suits me just fine.

Pete

    I'm sorry, but our home page stinks.  Try "delay image loading" in
    NSCA Mosaic.  Nothing... symbol that says there's supposed to be a
    picture there.  Thou shalt not put form in front of function!
    
    Check out HP's home page ( http://www.hp.com ).  THEY have it right.  
    It's very simple and very easy to find things, even with images turned 
    off.  I was recently in the market for a low-cost laser printer.  I
    went to HP's home page.
     - Click on Products
     - Click on Peripherals
     - Click on Printers 
     - BINGO!  A list of their printers along with an form to help me
       decide which one is best for me.   Prices.  Rebate Info. 
       PERFECT!!!!  With images turned on, it get a nice little picture of
       the thing.
    
    Go to Digital's to do the same thing... what a mess!!!!
     - Click on Products and Services
     - Ummm... Product Information Sheets?
     - Nope... that's not it, go back.
     - Try Quickindex... Nope.
     - Try a search.  Search for printer.
     - After scanning through a list of semi-related topics, I spot
       DEClaser 1800.  There's info, but I still have no real comparison
       between this and Digital's family of other laser printers.
     - Ah... then I see "Terminals, Scanners, Printers - Comparison Chart"
     - Hmph.  Can't read it without stretching the whole page.  Upon
       reading it, I notice that the DEClaser 1800 I was looking at before
       isn't on this list.
     - I give up.  Digital doesn't want to sell me a printer.
    
    DO IT... TRY THE HP SERVER!!!! It's SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE!!!!  Why can't
    we even get CLOSE to this sort of ease of use?
    
    FWIW, I bought an HP4L.
    
    Want another one... try Dell's server ( http://www.dell.com )
      - Click on Catalogs
      - Click on Dimension Standard Configurations
      - Pick on... XPS P90 #3 for example.
      - Up comes a list of features, price, and a whole page of
        upgrade/downgrade prices.  Clear.  Concise.  I know EXACTLY what
        I'm getting and exactly how much it will cost.
    
    I couldn't find any such configuration lists on our server.  We should
    be LEADING when it comes to this stuff.  Our servers should blow any
    others away in speed, information, ease of use... they don't.
    
    Regards,
    Frustrated 
    

>>    Beginning about 25 years ago, many sight-impaired folks have made
>>    entire careers in the computer business by marrying braille-display
>>    technology with character-cell terminal data.  More recently,
>>    sight-impaired folks from all walks of life have gained access to the
>>    "info highway" using the same braille-displaying terminal technology as
>>    it has become more affordable and as the UIs of character-cell
>>    technology have become simple enough for a non-techie to learn.
    
>>    The advent of GUIs in general, and Mosaic most particularly, has caused
>>    great disquiet in the sight-impaired community, because it is not
>>    obvious, immediately, how their Braille displays could be applicable to
>>    a mouse-driven world.  

Some of you may be aware that NCSA in conjunction with the Federal Mosaic
Consortium and the National Science Foundation is now heading up a project
called the Mosaic Access Project (MAP). The basis for this project is to 
improve design for the WWW and it's browsers for people with disabilities, 
including the blind, deaf, hearing impaired, and mobility impaired. I serve
as a steering committee member on that project, with a particular focus on
usability testing. 

Regarding a home page's accessibility for the blind, a couple of things need
to be noted up front:

1. Dispell the falicy that because it's a windows GUI, it's inaccessible
   to the blind. It is certainly less accessible, but not inaccessible. Most
   blind computer users have configurations that include a voice synthesizer
   (like DECtalk) and windows screen reader software. This does allow them
   to use Mosaic, with a few limited and hard-to-use features. Navigation
   is an inherent problem. Translating and printing to braille is another.
   Of course images are always a problem.

2. Along with Lynx (including DOS Lynx) as an accessible character-cell
   browser, there is also W3 (that Bill Perry, now of Spry) that is an 
   EMACS-based browser. Bill Perry keeps in touch with T.V. Raman of 
   our own Research Center and is very supportive of issues related to
   accessibility for the blind

3. As we speak, the HTML 2.0 committee is including support for ICADD
   DTD SDA attributes. ICADD is the International Committee for Accessible
   Document Design. ICADD is responsible for building an accessible SGML
   DTD now called ICADD22 and is part of the core code to ISO 1208-3. SDA
   are the Software Document Attributes of the ICADD DTD. More concisely,
   these calls allow for the easy transformation of an electronic document
   to voice, braille, and large text. 
   
   Over 20 states in the USA have adopted this DTD as legislation related to 
   the publishing of state and educational publications. NIST has just included
   it in their first draft for their electronic information FIPS. We are now
   getting requests for support from Adobe and several European companys. I'm
   happy to say that I am president of ICADD.

4. In two weeks, the Department of Commerce funded Universal Access Project,
   will be meeting to discuss issues related to internet accessibility. In 
   fact, part of that meeting will be a demonstration of products used to 
   make potential internet products (like Kiosks) acessible to the public. 
   That demonstration will be at a reception attended by Congress. I am
   a consulting member to the UAP and will be there for the events.

All of this info above is a means for giving you a glimpse into the work many
are doing to make the WWW and NII...for GII for that matter accessible. It's
my hope that Digital will see some viability in this work to fund it. 


Michael G. Paciello
Digital Equipment Corporation
Program Manager
Vision Impaired Information Services (VIIS)
110 Spit Brook Road
Nashua, NH. USA  03062
Phone: (603) 881-1831
FAX: (603) 881-0120
Internet: Paciello@Shane.Enet.Dec.Com
President: International Committee for Accessible Document Design (ICADD)
ViceChair: Electronics Industries Association/Assistive Devices Division 
Member: Project EASI
Member: Disabilities Access for X (DACx)
Member: NCSA/NSF Mosaic Access Project


 

   

    
    does this mean there may be jobs openings for those of us who know how
    to write and program HTML.
    
    bc
    

Re: .38

You have an excellent vision on how it should be! Our home page is
ugly and badly structured.

Olav

    <.-1 & 3>
    Yes it's a horror isn't it? It says exactly what I and many others
    (including customers?) feel: Digital is an incoherent mess, trying
    everything (like, 15 or so fonts?); maybe it reflects the internal
    reality?
    
    And what's more, it was designed by committee (in effect)?
    
    That explains a lot......
    
    martin, a tech writer trained in GUIs and boy does it gives me the
    shudders....

    Whoever came up with this asked for feedback. I don't know of anyone
    who provided any positive feedback. I guess either enough people did
    like this or no one listened to the feedback.
    
    Sorry but the old home page was far and away better than this mess.
    
    Too bad really considering that we were one of the first companies
    on the web.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

I agree, and I provided feedback, although I didn't retain a record of
it. If I had seen our current home page, I would have said Phththth,
too.

Please fix it before we end up on some "worst homepages" list.

Pete

    
    
    
    I think it's any easy call for someone higher up to make!
    
    The WWW is such a huge resource of potential customers and it's only
    gonna grow.
    
    I suggest someone fund some money (from Marketing,sales, whoever!)
    
    and get a professional 'nifty with all the bells and whistles' Homepage
    
    if we can't get it done internally then pay someone externally to do it!
    
    there are a ton of new artistic/Professional services out there creating
    really nice homepages for the web, now lets not be the laughing stock
    of the WWW
    
    BS

re Note 3276.45 by PCBUOA::SWANEY:

>     I suggest someone fund some money (from Marketing,sales, whoever!)
>     
>     and get a professional 'nifty with all the bells and whistles' Homepage
>     
>     if we can't get it done internally then pay someone externally to do it!
>     
>     there are a ton of new artistic/Professional services out there creating
>     really nice homepages for the web, now lets not be the laughing stock
>     of the WWW
  
        I think we got what we have now got from an external
        consultant.

        Bob

    
    
    well not to belittle someones work, but I wasn't speaking of hiring a
    contract person to come in and whip something up for us , when I
    referred to External I meant a Professional Service company, you know the
    kind that would only have to give you a list of WWW pointers and say
    'check these out, we did'm!'
    
    and you look at a few and say  'Yup! we need one just like this!
    
    
    BS

    don't get so excited, it'll change.  I feel that the homepage is sorta
    like a store window.  One week there's big 'SALE' signs, the next it
    says 'NEW'.  It's always changing, and people look at the window
    because they expect it to change and they want to see it.
    
    mark
    
    ps.  did you see the "new corp. standard FAX cover sheet"?  Oops, that
    oughta be a new topic...  :-)

    
    
    
    Oh I agree , I know it'll change ...
    
    But I get fed up with always following well behind in these simple
    areas of opportunities.
    
    Like someone mentioned earlier , if we don't have a Homepage anyhwere
    near nice as HP then someone should say 
    
    geez,, we need to have something like that or even better
    
    
    I work in PCBU and I can't with a happy smile say!
    
    'Hey check out our PCBU Homepage'
    
    
    while I have many college friends who have their own Personal homepages
    that look better than a lot of DEC's?
    
    
    BS

    Ok, so the home page is lousy. But thats just the cover of the book.
    
    The insides is where the real problem comes- as someone said a few
    notes back, finding something USEFULL on ours is near impossible.
    
    It would be nice to see a pretty cover, but Ill vote for real substance
    anyday. Lets get the contents organized so people can find information
    IN WAYS USEFULL TO CUSTOMERS NOT JUST BY DEC ORGANIZATION. I mean to
    shout because so much of our information is organized to suit out
    internal groups not how customers view it.
    
     

    RE: .50
    
    Not quite. The home page is both the cover and the means of finding the
    information in the book. Note that I didn't say it was an index.
    
    It's bad enough having a poor cover, but when the index is crap as
    well... Effort expended on the home page is effort well spent. I think
    the fact that the people responsible for it are asking for and
    accepting feedback is brilliant, and I look forward to a new, much
    improved home page in the near future.
    
    Remember, we are what we appear to be, and the Web is a major shop
    window to the technical and corporate user community. Underestimate
    that at your peril...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

re .50

Furthermore, as a frequent buyer of books, I'd like
to point out that covers do matter.  A lot.

If I'm scanning the fiction shelves looking for good
reads (not looking for a particular title or author)
then if it doesn't have an attractive cover or an
intriguing title, then I won't pull it from the shelves
to look at it.   I'll look at one of the thousands of
other books instead.

Sure, I could miss out on a good novel with this approach.
On the other hand, when surfing the bookshelves, it seems
to be the only viable way to 'audition' the candidates.


If we don't have a good 'cover', informed and committed
purchasers might not case, but casual browsers will
go elsewhere.

    Tell all the millions of magazine publishers the cover is not
    important......
    martin

Re: .53

A different story entirely.  Magazine covers are designed to attract
buyers who are scanning covers on the rack.  In the case of a WWW page, the
user has already chosen to visit the page.  The best front page is
attractive, useful and not annoying.  A nice graphic is fine, but it should
load quickly and there should be useful information on the front page.
Moreover, the organization of the pages should be easy to navigate.  The new
Digital pages fail on all counts.

				Steve

| A different story entirely.  Magazine covers are designed to attract
| buyers who are scanning covers on the rack.  In the case of a WWW page, the
| user has already chosen to visit the page. 

I do not completely agree with that. Just because you are standing outside a
store, looking at the front window, does not mean that you have decided to
go into it. If the front window looks like crap, you may decide not to enter.
Looking at the home page, you are, in effect, standing outside even though
you know (as a computer person) that you are connected to the other server.
But that is an under the hood implementation detail. You are greeted at the
doors of the service, by the service, and are presented with its major
offerings. If you enter, despite a crummy home page, you are either stupid
or you know what is in there and that the cover is misleading.

They key is to attract new users of our service, and to create repeat users.
I agree that a compromise will be needed to offer reasonable loadtime, but I
think the analogy with a magazine cover is a very good one.

>Per

Many of us are reading this string. Your feedback is important.

  erik

    Have you actually run into anybody that *likes* the new WWW home
    page? (I haven't.)

Yes, I think someone is gathering some of the feedback from
customers and others who commented favorably on it. 

   erik

    
    Well, I'm probably gonna get creamed here, but I thought it 'looked'
    fine.  I've seen numerous other home pages, but perhaps I should look
    again sometime.  As far as functionality goes, this thread is dead-on. 
    Lets get the purpose of the home page, to-get-information quickly fixed!
    But, this goes well beyond just the homepage, as seen by the number of
    topics in here on just this issue.
    
    Mike M.

    I formatted DEC's home page (during lunch) and put it up on my server.
    It seems the major beef has been one of a lack of order in the format.
    Is the page I formatted what most have in mind? By the way, the only
    point I care to flame about, is the  cost to have an outside source
    define our look when we have good folks inside. Give them half the
    money spent on an outside contractor as a midnight oil project, heck -
    a project during lunch.
    
    	My server has the reformatted page, the world should be able to
        access it under "DIGITAL INFORMATION SOURCES",
                        "SUGGESTED HOME PAGE FOR DEC"
    
    	http://from.eng.pko.dec.com
                           

Re: .61 (new suggested homepage)

A bit better, but still not acceptable. Take a look at http::/www.hp.com.
Very nice and logically structured. Very pleasent to use and easy to
browese for product information. Our's is unstrucured and messy to use.

Olav
 

    O.K.
    
    It's not my job but I gave it a try. Let's see what you come up with.
    Put your editor where your mouth is...
    
    -Bruce-                               

    Am I the only one who is getting gray lettering on the white background
    for the digital home page?
    
    - Vikas

    Well, I guess I am different.  I didn't/still don't like the TV advs,
    but like the www home page.  It looks like it was done by a hacker for
    a hacker.
    
    Now, the HP page has been mentinoed as an example twice.  It looks
    nice, but getting the desired information is another story.  It isn't
    there.
    Give me something that WORKS vs LOOKS any day.  Good work guys, just
    don't put the stupid music that's used in the advs on the page.
    
    ed
    and btw, just look at the clip art pages.  Blows the socks off anything
    else on the net, GREAT work Eric!

Hi,

I have to say I like the look of the opening page...then again I think the TV 
ads are cool too.

I know I've seen a page similar to our opening page somewhere, but don't 
recall exactly where.  The Microsoft opening page is similar, but cuts down 
on the various fonts.

The HP, Apple, Dell, etc opening pages are readable, but boring.  Our page 
loaded as fast as anyone elses for me.

In our opening page I did find it somewhat difficult to locate a specific 
item...that could be improved upon.

Brian

>    Am I the only one who is getting gray lettering on the white background
>    for the digital home page?

No, the text looks "Greyed out => disabled".

Olav

Re: .63 (Your try Olav)

Unfortunately I'm not a big artist, but I know when something looks good.
Shouldn't our home page bring some associations to a computer company?
How about a (small) picture of some "Digital Equipment"? An Alpha chip
maybe? How about a small "AlphaGeneration" logo somewhere? The current page
gives me more associations to some sports event than of a major computer
company.

For the contents see the included extract from a note that I posted in
another notes conference a while ago.

Olav

          <<< LJSRV2::LP$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]INTERNET_TOOLS.NOTE;3 >>>
                              -< Internet Tools >-
================================================================================
Note 1315.0        Could this solve our "information problem"?         7 replies
OSL09::OLAV "Do it in parallel!"                     70 lines  16-NOV-1994 05:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see a lot of problems in the field which could have been solved by
establishing a web structure with product information. There are a lot
of questions that needs to be answered and today we are using too long time
to answer them. The current information channels is also not good enoug
(especially not for searching to find something). Often you get a piece
of information by mail, which is often not structured properly. Each
individual must spend his own time to try to structure the information
flow. Searching for technical information is often doen by asking on notes.
It does normally take some time to get answers this way (but most often
you get it sooner or later). But, most questions shuld relly be possible
to answer directly while a customer is waiting on the phone.

This is a suggestion for how such a web structure could look like
(look at this as a early draft). Most of the input material would
come from product marketing/product management. What do you think?

Olav

Home Page
  Digital
    History (pointers to presentations etc.)
    Financial Data
      Q1
      Q2
      ...
  Hardware
    Alpha Systems
      General information about Alpha, pointers to presentations,
        press releases etc.
      Performance reports
      Customer references/tesimonials
      Servers
        AlphaServer 1000 4/200
           General description
           Detailed technical information (bus speeds, power consumption,
           firmware revision matrix etc).
           Performance reports (pointers to relevant info for this model)
           Customer references (pointers to relevant info for this model)
           Order and Configuration (pointer to section in systems and options)
        AlphaServer 2000 4/200
          ...          
      Workstations
        AlphaStation 200 4/166
        ...
    PC
       ...
    Printers
    Terminals
    VAX
  Software
    Applications
        OpenVMS
        OSF/1
        Windows NT
    Operating Systems
      OpenVMS
        General description of OpenVMS
        Detailed description of current version
      OSF/1
       ...
      Windows NT
        General information about Windows NT (history, relationship
        between Microsoft and Digital, pointers to presentations etc.)
        Windows NT Workstation 3.5
          Detailed product description
          Order information (pointer to part numbers and prices)
        Windows NT Server 3.5
          ...
  Service
    ...

    Nice effort, Bruce, I definitely find this an improvement.
    Personally, my next step would be to break up this 30+K
    image so that the home page is easily loadable using a 14.4K
    modem.
    
    I'll (just this once) shamelessly, shamelessly plug my "own" homepage:
    http://www.apd.dec.com/lnx as it (1) also satisfies the latest corporate 
    "new look" guidelines and (2) loads reasonably fast with a 14.4K modem 
    and limits the color range so that a 16 color 640x480 VGA driver can 
    handle it with no problem.
    
    Downside is that some might find it not flashy enough...
    
    re roelof

    
    Ok since we are looking at home pages  mine is @ :
    
              http://wicca9.eng.pko.dec.com
    
    bob cansler
    

    ...nice picture of Micky though.

    
    Thanks,  I know it has nothing to do with the real subject, but I
    thought a laugh would be good. besides the Rocky Horror picture show
    carries on...
    
    bc
    

Well, I must either have something wrong with Mosaic on my PC or an old version
because when I tried to go much beyond the home page on HP and DELL, I got
a lot of weird error messages and not much info.  From what I was able to see
of them they are not as catchy as ours, but HP sure wants you to make the
right choice in printers.  There was the Help me "choose the right printer" hot
spot in addtion to access via some other more generic selection.  Unfortunately,
I couldn't get any farther.  We should do something like that for our most
popular lines.  I really couldn't get anywhere with DELL either, so I can't
really comment on their stuff.  I did find our home page catchy, but not very
well organized.  And as someone used to "grey = not available" in Windows, I
was confused with all the grey stuff on ours.  I might not have bothered to
click on them if someone hadn't already mentioned it here.

Bob

    
    are you running trumpet??
    
    bc
    

    
    This greyed-out thing needs to change.  Had I not read this note thread
    I would have never clicked on one of them, greyed-out = disabled.
    
    No offense GREYHAWK.

re: .75  Pathworks V5.0

	A couple of comments that have been raised before but I 
think are important enough to be repeated -

1.  Get something on the home page for those who use a character
    cell browser or who have image loading turned off!  Your just
    going to turn these people off if they come to our home page 
    and can't see anything or force them to download an image.

2.  Get rid of the grey text, I like others thought these options
    were "greyed out" and not available.

Mike Corbett

If you're using a character-cell browser, you see a link labelled
"Table of Contents".  Using a graphical browser with image loading delayed
indeed means you have no choice but to fetch the image - this needs fixing.

I too thought the grayed text was not selectable.

				Steve

    re: .80
    
    > I'm running Mosaic, and no matter where I point
    > my mouse the URL string at the bottom of the screen never changes -
    it
    > always reflects the homepage. 
    
    This is always true with 'clickable images' or ISMAPS on the Web. The
    browser does not resolve and thus display the various clickable areas
    on the image, so you can't tell what is clickable, or if it is, where
    it might take you.
    
    If a server uses this type of image there is no way around this
    behaviour. 
    
    /Tim

    As I've been saying all along, Tim... ISMAPs have *lousy* human
    factors.  GUI-type Web Browser users get *used* to having the instant
    feedback of separate graphic tiles or textual objects changing the "you
    will go here if you click NOW" message as the cursor is moved over the
    rendered page.
    
    I know you folks who are web-knowledgeable must have been feeding this
    info to the decision-makers.
    

Dan,
	As painfull as it is, active images can't display the various URLs
	because the URLs aren't in the HTML document that the browser receives.
	The pixel location to URL resolution happens at the server.  All the
	browser knows is that the mouse is on an image.
Have a GREAT day!
Pete

    I suspect that this also means that proxy caching gets defeated
    since you'll always have to go to the server to do the pixel
    to URL resolution. This has disadvantages to both parties.
    Party of the first part must wait longer to get the URL, party
    of the 2nd part (provider) must service more requests...
    
    

re Note 3276.83 by NAS007::STODDARD:

>                              -< It's a limitation of ISMAPs >-
> 
> Dan,
> 	As painfull as it is, active images can't display the various URLs
> 	because the URLs aren't in the HTML document that the browser receives.
> 	The pixel location to URL resolution happens at the server.  All the
> 	browser knows is that the mouse is on an image.

        I know that Dan knows that.  :-}

        What Dan (and others, including myself) have suggested is
        that multiple smaller images can be "tiled" with each being
        an anchor to a linked page in its own right.  The browsers
        *can* give feedback when that is done (and caching should
        work as well, since the original server need make no
        decisions based upon mouse location).

        Bob

                            (-: What he said... :-)
    

re .81, .82:

the point about sensitive maps is that the user MUST BE TOLD what to do!

Like ("click on the area of interest in this map"); I've found these maps VERY
useful at times (if the information behind these maps lend themselves to a
MEANINGFUL two - dimensional representation, that is).

There are some very good examples of such maps reachable somewhere from CERN in
Switzerland...

The problem is LONG load times over 14.4K modems and I doubt that a casual user
wnats to wait very long to wait for a HOME page. The home page, like a magazine
cover, should be displayed quickly.

my $.02, martin

Re .84

>>HLDE01::VUURBOOM_R "Roelof Vuurboom @ APD, DTN 829 4066"

>>    I suspect that this also means that proxy caching gets defeated
>>    since you'll always have to go to the server to do the pixel
>>    to URL resolution. This has disadvantages to both parties.
>>    Party of the first part must wait longer to get the URL, party
>>    of the 2nd part (provider) must service more requests...
    
  
I'm glad to see that the Marx Brothers films were translated into Dutch; did
the humour translate as well?

I see that the imagemap has been revised so that the "minor subjects" now
appear more evidently selectable.

				Steve

    ... and there's now some tiny text at the bottom pointing to an
    alternative text home page. Having it at the top might be better,
    since the hapless 14.4k dial-in-er might not think to scroll down
    looking for it.
    
    But ...
    
    The text home page contains almost nothing (you can use its
    hyperlinks to get to the infobase, but the page itself is extremely
    uninformative) ...
    
    ... and worse, the "graphics view" link on the text page is broken!

IMO, Our homepage is still broken, so I'm re-opening this can-o-worms.  I 
posted this in LJSRV2::INTERNET_TOOLS.  Anyone know who's in charge of our 
homepage?  I'd like to know who to forward this too.

-Steve


          <<< LJSRV2::LP$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]INTERNET_TOOLS.NOTE;3 >>>
                              -< Internet Tools >-
================================================================================
Note 1813.8         Improve our external WWW pages (again)!!!             8 of 9
CONSLT::OWEN "Stop Global Whining"                   50 lines  14-MAR-1995 08:25
                     -< You just pushed my hot button.... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re .0
    
    I firmly believe that the root of the problem with our home page lies
    in the source of the information itself.  Our product lines are
    confused, the business groups don't seem to talk to eachother, and
    corporate keeps passing down changes that make the information
    confusing (ie, changing the name of OSF/1 to Digital Unix, or whatever
    they decided to call it).  Couple that with the massive layoffs and
    migration of the people and resources it takes to organize this
    information.  Our home page points to servers all over the place, with
    no common format, old information, and gaps in our product line.  There
    seems to be no central focus and no accounability.
    
    Again, I feel that the best WWW server (for corporate computer giants
    such as ourselves) is HP's.  The product line is clear, and that makes
    for an easy to follow web server.  Intel's is also very good, as is
    IBM's, Compaq's, and too many others to count.
    
    Our server is still one of the worst.  How come page 1 doesn't have
    information about our relationship with Netscape?  Where's the pictures
    of our new incredible notebook line?   Why is this so hard?  It seems
    that we are trying to be different for the sake of being different,
    rather than being different because we found a better way.
    
    Can't we setup like this:
    
    -About Digital
      -New
      -Press Releases
      -etc...
    -Products
      -Alpha Servers
      -PC's 
      -Notebooks
      -Network Products
      -Software
      -etc.
    -Services
    -Other Information
    
    You've got a configuration for a Workstation (or just about anything we
    sell) in mind... pretend you're a first time user on our WWW server.  
    Go get a ballpark figure on what's available and how much it will cost.  
    Just try it and you'll see what the problem is.
    
    Sorry... this whole issue makes me furious...
    
    -Steve
    
                         

    
    	Steve -
    
    	We are not different because we want to be -
    
    	We are different because we don't know better..
    
    	Sorry. Just something you have to live with if you work here.
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

>    	We are not different because we want to be -
>       We are different because we don't know better..

I'm afraid I have to agree. Our WWW pages exposes an extremely lack of
focus and marketing skills.

Olav

    re. .94
    
    >I'm afraid I have to agree. Our WWW pages exposes an extremely lack of
    >focus and marketing skills.
    
    How could we have anything else? Or have you found a place here in our
    information systems, which would give a coherent, well organised set of
    information of our products or even places of that kind of information
    per product? You can't present information in WWW pages, if that
    doesn't exist.
    
    To my opinion, the gap between the field and support organisations grow all
    the time. Low quality material is still produced, because of internal 
    selling/selfpromotion needs, or because people, who produce the material 
    don't know how to do something else, while real customer material is 
    missing or too complex/massive/scattered. And sometimes even external 
    marketing events are used as a pure private ego building possibility. 
    I just saw an invitation to an international expertice event, where one of 
    our SI competence circle leaders is a chairman. There was NO Digital 
    product/solution presentations among the sessions. Neither was there in the 
    previous one, which I saw.
    
    As a result, several business organisations rely heavily on the hard
    earned competence of local SI consultants (e.g. SBU and SW), whos
    reward and future nevertheless is dubious at best.
    
    --Ritva
    
    
    --Ritva 

>    I just saw an invitation to an international expertice event, where one of 
>    our SI competence circle leaders is a chairman. There was NO Digital 
>    product/solution presentations among the sessions.

I'm not surprised. SI isn't measured on sales of Digital products, but paid
consultancy. I guess it's easier to sell consultancy on other products.

Olav

>    Can't we setup like this:
>    
>    -About Digital
>      -New
>      -Press Releases
>      -etc...
>    -Products
>      -Alpha Servers
>      -PC's 
>      -Notebooks
>      -Network Products
>      -Software
>      -etc.
>    -Services
>    -Other Information
    
    Apparently its Digital's best kept secret but have you looked at the 
    QuickIndex page (also accessible by selecting QuickIndex
    from the home page) at 
    
    	http://www.digital.com/info/quickindex.html
    
    The structure of the page follows (and note the similarity
    with your proposal):
    
    re roelof
    
    Digital Equipment Corporation, QuickIndex
    
                                                                          
    What's New From Digital
    
         Flash! 
         New AlphaStation and AlphaServer Families 
         Special Promotions! 
         Most Recent Press Releases 
         What's New On This Web Server 
    
    Company Overview & Contact Information
    
         Digital Overview 
         How to contact Digital 
         A Progress Report 
         EDGAR Financial Data 
    
    Customer Periodicals
    
         Customer Publications 
              Customer Update 
              Digital Technical Journal 
         Catalogs & Buyers Guides 
              Systems and Options Catalog 
              Alpha AXP Application Guide 
              DECdirect Interactive Catalog 
              NASA SEWP Interactive Catalog 
    Electronic Newsletters 
              Digital Press & Analysts News 
              Digital UNIX News 
              DECnews for Education & Research 
              inFORM 
    
    Product & Service Information
    
         Product Ordering Via Electronic Connection 
    
         Product Information By Subject Area 
    
              Standards 
              Operating Environments 
              Applications 
              Information Technology 
              Hardware Systems 
              Services 
              Other corporate information 
    
         Product Information By Categories 
    
              Software Product Descriptions 
              Digital's Customer Update 
              Performance Reports 
              Press Releases 
    
    Digital Technical Journal 
    
              Technical Overviews 
              Success Stories 
              Product Information Sheets 
              Technical Whitepapers 
              Digital Brochures 
              Digital Presentations 
              Product Documentation 
    
         Online Public Access Demo Systems 
         Freely Available Software Archives 
    
    Customer Service, Training & Support
    
         ISV Developer Support 
         Software Patches 
         Customer Discussion Forums 
    
    New Technology and Research
    
         Corporate Research 
    
    InfoCenters
    
         Internet InfoCenter 
         LinkWorks InfoCenter 
         POLYCENTER InfoCenter 
         Software Developers InfoCenter 
    
    Reading Rooms
    
         Education 
         Research 
         Museums and Libraries 
    
    Other World-Wide Web Servers
    
         Customers 
         Distributors and Resellers 
         Application Partners 
         Professional Associations 
         Organizations 
     
    
    Home Page | Browse | Search | Feedback | Help 
    
    Creation Date: Thu Feb 16, 1995 
    
    DRJ
    
    
    
    

    I have understood, that the current definition says, that we sell
    consultancy for projects related to our own products.
    
    That means, that consultancy's success is strongy tied to the success
    of our own products.
    
    That also makes me worried about the lack of commited sales resources
    for our software or for the software we have made reselling contracts
    for. Consultancy doesn't bring sufficient mass for our sales. That must
    happen through direct or indirect product sales. Who is responsible of
    making the reseller contracts for the SW anyway in this company - and
    also mesured based on that? I have not yet found anybody. Especially PC
    software seems to drop somewhere between SBU and PCBU
    
    --Ritva
     

    re:
    >Can't we setup like this:
    
    >-About Digital
    >  -New
    >  -Press Releases
    >  -etc...
    >-Products
    >  -Alpha Servers
    >  -PC's 
    >  -Notebooks
    >  -Network Products
    >  -Software
    >  -etc.
    >-Services
    >-Other Information
    
    ya mean some url (for example for the US only)(where not all the
    selections work) like 
    http://vtx-info.shr.dec.com:888/cgi-bin/vtx?F%2BACCESS_US
    
    No, you'd never be able to get funding for it.
    _bill
        
    
    

    
    re .97
    
    Any reason SI is missing from the index?
    
    RV
    

FWIW, I'm very pleased with the layout of the new home page. It's not one of the
many catalog-like pages and a real eye-catcher.

Hans.

Yes, it catches your eye for a long time while you scratch your head and
try to figure out what you should click on for the information you want.

					Steve

Extract from the Corporate Communications Internet Program - Newsletter:-


"5. New Digital Home page - quotes from users

Here are some quotes from external users on the design of the new Digital home
page (http://www.digital.com) since it went live in January '95. We're
obviously very pleased with the overwhelmingly positive response from the
public.

"Appearance of your web pages is excellent...excellent response time from your
server...one of the fastest ones I have visited" - CompuServe Inc, MIS Dept

"The new home page is extremely snazzy"	- Adobe user

"Your home page blazed down on my lowly PPP connection" - Halcyon user

"Easy to use and has the information I need" - Education user

"I like the new home page!" - Kellogg user

"Great resource. Opening screen is very visual - looks good" - Netcom user

"Well done" - US State government user

"Your new home page is MUCH better than the old one" - US FDA user

"I like the new look very much!" - Sybase user

"Lovely page" - US Government user

"Great effort everyone! The new home page is very impressive" - RTD user

"Looks slick!" - US Government user

"Good job on the web server guys.. Clean interface and easy to use" - Intel user

"Kudos to Digital's WWW services, a cut above the ordinary" - Education user

"This server is cool" - EU Government user, Belgium.

"Congratulatins. The site is comprehensive and well-designed" - Mobile user

"It not only has a great look and feel, it actually contains information" -
								Education user
"Very impressed at the information available" - Loral user

"Your WWW service is very well laid out and full of useful information" -
								Hughes user
"Your WEB pages are wonderful!" - Education user

"Thanks, interesting and useful server" - Austrian Government user.

"Your web pages are spectacular. Very informative too!" - Opentext user

"WOW - like the new look" - PPCO user

"I really like your homepage design" - Enet user

"I believe Digital's (webserver) is among the best on the web. Exciting,
well-thought out, and nice to the user (new or old)" - Netcom user"

Dave.

    
     RE -.1
    
    Hah! And again HAH! How dare those customers users of the Digital
    Home page "like" it. HAH!
    
    Actually I like it myself. Sure it could be tweaked. But a page is
    like a piece of art. Some people will like it, some people will not
    like it, and some people just don't get it. Remember this, just look
    at ourselves internally. What chaos reigns, where is the information
    you seek? Where is this and that? Where did all those people go?
    Now look at the home page externally. Different digital, isn't it.
    
    So, I say, good job. Please keep up the effort.
    
    -Mike Z.

    Digital's pagee listed as one of the top 100 by PC Mag April 11, 1995
    Vol. 14 No. 7
    
    However, if you want to see one of the best - see:
    	http://www.timeinc.com/time/universal.html
    

    Is that last correct?  I get an error when I try to open it...

try

http://www.timeinc.com/time/universe.html


Stan

    Hi,
    	Could someone re-post the pointer to the internal tool to scan
    multiple notes-conferences at once?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike M.

    You probably mean COMET:
    
    	http://www-comet.alf.dec.com:8032/

When I use MSIE 3.01 on Windows NT 4.0 Alpha, the clever 
change-when-the-mouse-moves-over-them bits don't. Is there something wrong with 
my system, or is this a generic MSIE thing?

PJDM

I asked the same question recently - the answer is that the JavaScript feature
which makes the "rollover" buttons work doesn't work quite right in MSIE,
therefore the code is set up to exclude all but Netscape 3.0 and later from
this bit of decoration.

					Steve

    The rollover button effect on the homepage now works in Microsoft 
    Internet Explorer v4PR1 (starting with the current homepage flash
    (#133)).
    
       erik