Conference 7.286::digital

Low morals?  Well, at least there's *something* to look forward to...

    Low moral could also cause someone to loose there business.

    
    re: .-1
    
    Low Morale could cause 
    
    employee dissatisfaction -> customer dissatisfaction -> business loss
    
    Mike
    

	Well, there is a connection between "low moral" and "loose" ...

re .3 (Low moral could also cause someone to loose there business.), a
bit to subtle, don't you think?

    To get back to the topic, I gather from the base note that someone
    feels that Digital might meet these qualifications.  I don't think
    that's a surprise to anyone in this notesfile.  Question is:  what
    are we (or anyone) going to do about it?  Our office and my major
    account has been run as well as can be expected, but the business
    keeps declining and the weight of Corporate pressures is taxing
    our best efforts.  We are not going to survive next year in the
    same conditions, so something *will* change, one way or the other.
    
    I leave the vision and leadership things to the guys who get paid
    twenty times my salary.  They get paid the big bucks because they've
    taken responsibility and they make the hard decisions (supposedly).
    I'm always willing to give my assessment of my situation and what
    I think can be improved, but I can't force them to do one thing.
    
    People in this notesfile talk of empowerment, but I can't see it.
    I'm not empowered to decide whether something should be sent by
    overnight delivery without a District Manager's signature, much
    less do things that could affect the future of the company.
    
    Geoffrey
    

    Is it really necessary to explain the difference between "moral" and
    "morale", and between "there" and "their"?
    
    Laurie.

>    Is it really necessary to explain the difference between "moral" and
>    "morale", and between "there" and "their"?
    
 	You forgot looose.

    WHY...? does every discussion have to turn into an English lesson?
    
    Let's get back to the topic..!!
    
    Thanks.!!
    
    Bob G.
    

      ...a typo and an over dependence on SPELL. And wouldn't you know I
     was not here Friday to fix it.

     As for the topic, I think Digital exhibits a number of the symptoms
     on the list. How serious is the problem? What are the short- / long-
     term solutions?

    >WHY...? does every discussion have to turn into an English lesson?
    
     Because there are so many sloppy noters?  It is no less irritating to 
     attempt to decipher the writing of noters with worse-than-third-grade 
     english skills than it is to read all of the messages condemning the 
     situation.

                                      Greg

>    If a few mispelled words bothers you that much ... I suggest you buy
>    larger undergarmets ... evidently your present ones are WAY too tight.

	In the same vein, I've decided that from now on, I'm
	going to respond to problem reports with

		"If a few bugs bothers you that much ... I suggest
		 you go use someone else's software"

	Why is care and attention a requirement in one case and
	not the other?

    
    Add this bullet to the list in .0:
    
    	o Employees spend hours worth of energy in unproductive
    		efforts (such as notesfile spelling and efficiency debates). 
    
    
    
    

    The notes conference for discussing your pet peeves on grammar and
    spelling is THEBAY::JOYOFLEX, press KP7.

    The noters in there will be all to happy to commiserate with your pet
    peeves, or if you prefer, debate them ad nauseam.  The decaying state
    of the English language, and the lack of basic skills, is a favorite
    topic of conversation there.  But be prepared to have your own notes
    dissected.

>        o Employees spend hours worth of energy in unproductive
>                efforts (such as notesfile spelling and efficiency debates). 

If the same standard of spelling and grammar is used in external documents
then we are in deep trouble. That's why people like Laurie complain. Just
because you're using Notes doesn't mean you should be sloppy in the way
you communicate.

If only a few people improve their spelling, then it *is* productive.

Gavin

     I'm sure glad I'm not taking this personally. You folks are real
     sweethearts. Do you correct people in their speech also?

     (That should get more comments ;^)

    Only when they say that they are going to "try a different tact."
    : }.

    Re: "try a different tact"
    
    But maybe thats what they mean: they will find a differant way to be
    polite.  In any case, I could care less.

    Is your business in trouble?
    
    DEC 42 7/8, change -0 7/8; DJIA unknown, change unknown at 2:05.
    Report entered at Tue May 19 14:05:05 1992.
    
    

Since VAX Notes conferences are meant for internal use, I'm sure most of us
aren't as careful with spelling or grammar as we would be in a document
intended for external use.

What *does* hurt Digital is poorly written or misspelled information getting to
customers.  I hope this type of material is reviewed by more than one person,
but I have been embarrased a few times by Digital literature.

There's no need to be as strict in this conference, although it's never bad to
spell correctly or use proper grammar.

Not that I wanted to get in the last word, but does this close the spelling
rathole in this note?

Paul, co-moderator Digital

    i too agree with previouse callers that spelling is important, and iam 
    just tried of those who write bad spelling, i think we should have a rule,
    any one who write bad spelling would not be allowed to call back again to 
    this file for a week. they can listen only but dont talk.
    
    this is getting out of hands and we must do something about it.
    
    enough talks, time to take action !
    
    this rule is effective immediatly ! 
    
    and no exceptions too. 
    
    /nasser
    a_candidate_for_future_co_moderator_of_digital_notes_files

	Re .21

>>	.... does this close the spelling rathole in this note?


	Yes, Paul.  Absolutely.  There has been too much 
	ratholing over such things.  Let's STOP it.  Now!

	Jim

	Btw - you misspelled `embarrassed'   :-)

    
    I am usually 'read only' in this conference but I must comment on this
    spelling and grammar rathole.
    
    Ever since I took drama in high school I have adopted the philosophy
    that one performs what one rehearses.  If an actor rehearses in a
    sloppy, off-hand manner because it is "just a rehearsal" then they will
    give a sloppy, off-hand performance because that is what was practiced.
    
    If a sporting type person trains in a sloppy way just because it is
    "only a practice session" and does not do the best they can all the
    time, then that person will give a sloppy performance come game day or
    race day.
    
    Practice what you mean to perform. If you practice delivering quality
    in everything you do whether it is personal communications, "just
    internal stuff" or "only notes" then quality will become second nature
    to you and you will not have to think about it when it comes time to
    build that product, write that documentation or present that proposal.
    The quality will *be there* in the performance because that is what was 
    rehearsed.
    
    LaDonna

Ahhh Gi'day...

		       You misspelt "appologies" [sic]

OK, any more talk about spelling or grammar and this topic will be right-locked.

Paul

    
    Re: .25
    
    Thank you.  I have corrected it.
    
    I do realise that mixing singular and plural pronouns (person, they)
    is incorrect. Personally, I find it less offensive on the eye than
    using s/he all the time.
    
    .24 is simply a philosophy. It doesn't mean that I always get things 
    right. It means that I do my best to get it right and when someone
    points out an error I acknowledge it, correct it and try not to repeat
    it.
    
    LaDonna

    WE could be in trouble -- a whole bunch of people may be loosed
    in Germany.  See 1904.22.

OK, so we lose them rather than loose them...  My worst fears have come true...
rather than being bilingual...I'm illiterate in two languages :-)  

Rob ... anybody out there got a good recipe for mixed metaphors?  They sound
delicious.

>    But maybe thats what they mean: they will find a differant way to be
>    polite.  In any case, I could care less.

Sadly, that says it all. I expected better from you.

BTW, in JOYOFLEX, you're preaching to the converted. They don't need the
reminders, the people who misuse the language do. I have seen functional
specs which were incomprehensible because of the low quality of spelling and
grammar... yet we still tried to build systems based on them and then wondered
why they didn't work as the users wanted. I have worked on a project where an
outside customer refused to pay for the documentation which was delivered
because of the very low spelling/grammar quality. I was brought in to save 
that part of the project and succeeded. Now, what do you think that customer
thought of Digital when the first set of documentation was delivered? (The
project was a million dollar one in an industry which has not been even
remotely tapped and in which Digital is a front contender.)

Gavin

>                    <<< Note 1898.27 by ROCKS::LMCDONALD >>>
    
>    I do realise that mixing singular and plural pronouns (person, they)
>    is incorrect. 

No it isn't incorrect. See notes 52.34 and 52.35 in the JOKUR::GRAMMAR 
conference.

Craig

>>    But maybe thats what they mean: they will find a differant way to be
>>    polite.  In any case, I could care less.

>Sadly, that says it all. I expected better from you.

But if they could care less then surely this is good. It means they're
very caring and so there is room to care a bit less than they do. If
however, they had said they _couldn't_ care less, then this would mean
they don't care about it at all, since if it's impossible to care less
about something, then you're obviously not caring about it at all.

Why do Americans say the opposite of what they mean?

Craig

    ref. spelling and documentations...

    i agree with the previous caller that a documentation with good spellings 
    and good grammar is a necessary condition, but i just wanted to point
    out that this is not a sufficient condition for the document to be a success.

    ease of explaining , figures, outline of concepts behind the product
    clear examples etc.. are all necessary too.

    this is just a net point.

    /nasser

    Looks like we've went ful sircle.

     I corrected the spelling error but missed the apostrophe. On the
     other hand, I have probably been using it "wont" for "won't" for
     years. No one has had occasion to correct me privately and no one has
     been so rude and ill mannered (should that be hyphenated?) to do so in
     public.

     So I finally deleted the note after entering it the second time.

    
    Will someone tell me what the basenote said.
    
    thank you

    I *HATE* that.. somebody posts a note, gets lots of replies, some of
    which they may not like, and then DELETES the base note, leaving late
    readers scratching their heads..
    
    karl

    re .39
    
    Go back and read the lengthly list of ridiculous replys that avoid
    answering the initial input.
    
    If in a meeting, for instance, I were to pose a seriously intellectual
    observation while in the company of MANY supposedly intelligent, caring
    employees and listened to a string of unrelated, inane comments (bless
    the noters who tried to get back to the subject) I suspect I would
    throw my hands up in disgust, say "I'm sorry I brought it up, folks.",
    and go back to my Workstation to do something of value. 
    
    Deleting a base note is analogous to that frustration. Perhaps the
    original writer thought that the quality of the majority of replies
    indicated that what he wrote was not worth writing/keeping in.
    
    I use `next unseen' as a matter of course in reading notes.  Often I
    see an interesting reply to a note and jump down to `.0' just to see
    exactly what the issue was/is.  I, too, scratch my head when `.0' has
    been deleted for any reason; but in this case, I do understand.
    
    This is not intended to be criticizm, just an observation of events. 
    
    Dave

    Re: .-1
    
    Welcome to notes.

    
Are we in trouble....??

DEC 41 7/8, change +0 1/4; DJIA 3364.21, change -22.56 at 16:00.
Report entered at Tue May 26 17:11:14 1992.