Conference 7.286::digital

    I've heard that management discussed this as an option, but decided NOT
    to close during the Christmas/New years week.  I think it had something
    to do with how wage level 2 folks might be affected.

    .1 implies that WC4 would get it with pay and not have to use vaca
    time?  please tell me this isn't what was imterpreted?
    
    Ogre.

>    .1 implies that WC4 would get it with pay and not have to use vaca
>    time?  please tell me this isn't what was imterpreted?

	The way it read to me was that WC 2 people might miss out on over time
	payments that they might otherwise have expected. 

	Also some Christmas closings have offered the option of taking vacation
	time or making up the time in advance. WC 2 people generally get OT 
	rather than comp time so making up the time in advance is less of an
	option in some areas. Not that one can't work things out for WC 2
	people but I think you run some legal risks in some areas if you do.

			Alfred

    
    
      I would find it hard to believe that this was or is being considered
    here in DEC.  We are a CUSTOMER drive compnay and they (our customers)
    rely on us being here for support.  I could see if this if we were a
    "widget" maker and had one customer who did not need their "widgets"
    for a couple of weeks.  Now, I for one would not mind two or even one
    week off to spend with my wife and kids during the holiday season...
    But I don't think we can "shut-down" Digital for a week...Just my
    opinion.
    
    bob

    re .4
    
    I agree.  Anyone who thinks we could shut down (other than
    manufacturing) for even a week does not know the business we are in.
    I can see it now.  A large customer with a mission critical contract
    calls the CSC the day before christmas and gets....no answer....DEC
    gets...no further business....
    
    I'm sure this is just a rumor.  If management even discussed it, I WANT
    MY TFSO NOW.

    I have to admit I thought it was "odd" that a non manufacturing company
    (at least the part that serves customers) would consider this.  That's
    why I tossed my grapes over the fence to see if they were sour or not!
    
    If anyone gets any accurate info or if there's a person in a "non
    rumor" position with a "for real" answer... toss your grapes in the
    barrel too!
    
    

    
    Another thought from the finance perspective....the second week
    in question, December 27 thru January 2, is a Week 1.  We would
    be closing the books, and it's a Quarter End close to boot.  I
    know we'd be here.

    
    well it has happened in manufactoring before, although i don't remember
    if it was 1 week or 2. I was WC4 at the time, and i used vacation pay
    as i remember.  This would have been sometime between 78-83 i think.
    
    bob

    re:  a few back
    
    Actually, closing down the week between Christmas and New Years
    is not all that odd from a field perspective. A great many
    of our customers are closed that week, anyway. If it's end
    of year for them, they have orders received and billed to them
    prior to the week off. Some of the customers that close down
    are McDonnell Douglas, Intel, Motorola.

    Intel shuts down wafer fabs to PM their equipment, install software and
    hardware upgrades and so forth.  I don't think it's for a week at all
    facilities.  hey are cranking the 486 machine pretty hard at the
    moment, and a week would be many $$ in lost production.
    
    (You ought to see how much is lost when a production VAX shuts down for
    a few hours in Rio Rancho, NM.  They remind us loud and clear!)
    
    gil
    

>                      <<< Note 2187.5 by SMAUG::CARROLL >>>

    
>    I agree.  Anyone who thinks we could shut down (other than
>    manufacturing) for even a week does not know the business we are in.

In England, Digital nominates three company holidays. These invariably
fall between Christmas and New Year. As a result of Christmas day and
Boxing Day being holidays, this means that all salaried employees get
all of Christmas week off as paid holiday. This year, the holidays are
29th-31st Dec inclusive and are in addition to the normal holiday 
entitlement of 21-26 days a year (depending on service).

Scotland has different holidays (Boxing day isn't a holiday there, but Jan
2nd is, so I don't know what happens north of the border). I expect that a
small minority of people in the UK remain at work to provide customer
cover, emergency computer security cover and building security, but that's
it. It's probably not much different from the cover provided during any 
other public holiday.

Craig

> I expect that a
>small minority of people in the UK remain at work to provide customer
>cover, emergency computer security cover and building security, but that's
>it. It's probably not much different from the cover provided during any 
>other public holiday.

	Craig, I think you'd be surprised at the number of people who work 
	these days.

	The CSC does, IS does, and many of the people who are involved in 
	closing the Q2 books, there are probably others too.

	Heather - Who has worked over many Christmasses, Christmas day included
		  when Israel had a problem closing.

    well, (a few back) that thought never occured to me! In the little over
    5 years I've been here I've probably only racked up between 1 -2 months
    worth of overtime (mostly from training/travel, only once for a project
    that was "hot").
    
    A NO vote from me for shutting down as it would infer that DEC is
    pushing christian values on it's employees.  I don't even know why we
    shut down for xmas and NY's when we don't for hanukkah or rosh hashana
    or chinese new year or etc,etc,etc?  In a multi-cultural multi-religious 
    society, why aren't exceptions made to accommodate all peoples?
    
    Ogre.

	What is meant by 'wage class' 2 or 4? How many wage classes do exist?
	It is unknown in Germany.
	Erika.

>  I don't even know why we
>    shut down for xmas and NY's when we don't for hanukkah or rosh hashana
>    or chinese new year or etc,etc,etc?  In a multi-cultural multi-religious 
>    society, why aren't exceptions made to accommodate all peoples?
 

	Because most of our customers are out, and there is little business 
	to do. (Unless you are supporting the close activities and some cover 
	for support activities).

	Heather

    re "shut down for xmas and ny's"   I don't know that I'd think of it as
    much for the religious reason as for the proximity of the number of
    people who take time for religious, school vacation, end of year, new
    years time and the fact that quite a few DEC facilities are closed at
    least 4 of the 10 working days the two weeks cover.   I suppose there
    would be less elect used, heat, facilities people needed....  but
    again...  all this is supposition if they're not planning on doing it. 
    SOoooooo..... back to work, 
    
    Also   Wage class 2's are generally support staff i.e. clerical,
    secretarial, wage class 4's are a more broad category  (then there's
    those wage class 3's like me! :-)
    
    Lorelei

    re. .14
    Erika, to answer your question regarding "what is ment by wage class"
    In the U.S. there are specific laws regarding labor and who may be
    excempt from the laws. A wage class 2 person is paid by the HOUR. The
    law states that they must get paid 1 1/2 times their hourly rate for
    any hows worked over 40 hours per week.(the law is more detailed then
    this). A wage class 3 gets paid a a set salary by the week but still
    can get paid overtime when working more then 40 hours, per the law.
    A wage class 4 gets a fixed salary and does not get any additionl
    salary if that person works more then 40 hours. In other words that
    person gets paid to do a job no mater how long it takes. Sooooo, a wage
    class 2 and 3 are NON-EXCEMPT from the law and a wage class 4 is
    EXCEMPT. 

    also WC2 people are those like R&D Engineering Technicians,
    manufacturing equipment technicians, etc...  I don't want people to
    think that WC2 does not involve technical positions and that this class
    not only supports, but does the brunt of the grunt work for the WC4's
    and is relied upon heavily to know and understand the WC4's job so that
    they can help at any given time.
    
    I am not downplaying the role of the rest of the WC2's, but I get tired
    of hearing that WC2's are thought of as mostly clerical in nature.
    
    Ogre.

    Re.18
    Your Absolutly right. All companies rely on the WC2 person to git the
    jobs done. Thoes people are the pillars of a company. With out them
    nothing will be designed, tested, built or shiped!! I would be the last
    person to ever down play a WC2.
    
    George 

	I heard a story once that a group did a year long productivity study
	based on a years history of CMS check-ins and outs. It seems that 
	productivity hit a high spike the week between Christmas and New Years.
	On more study it turns out that all the managers took the week off and
	there were no meetings. The people who were in got a lot of real work done.

			Alfred

    
    
    Major rathole alert!!!....having worked as a non-exempt employee in 
    other companies and industries, I am disappointed to find that at DEC
    the attitude toward WC2 individuals is one of inferiority by other 
    wage classes (personal experience, your mileage may vary!)
    
    Also, as a WC2 I was working on a project and told 2 1/2 days before 
    my vacation that the project was due on a day I would be away.  I
    logged over 18 hours overtime and received neither overtime or com-
    pensation.  This has happened to me under three different managers.
    
    It has been my experience that overtime pay is no longer available and
    WC2 people are expected to work until the job is done.  I know of other
    WC2 who will also do what every is necessary to complete a job
    regardless of "comp" anything....time or money.
    
    Rathole alert over.....!
     
    

      Re .21
    
      Jan, I don't think this is really a prevalent attitude across ALL of
    Digital. The generally held belief in the difference between WC-2 and
    WC-4 is that '2's are "labor" and '4's are "management". In MANY cases,
    the WC-2's are doing jobs that are much more important to the company,
    and probably couldn't even be accomplished by WC-4 people. I remember
    back in the distant past when I was still in the WC-2 category....
    I was "promoted"?? into a WC-4 job description one year when my
    earnings got to the point where I was making about TWICE what my WC-4
    boss was getting. I had no choice when it came to the so-called
    "promotion", and the next year my W-2 reflected a HUGE decrease in pay
    from my previous year.
    
       I personally am of the belief that WC-2 people are the ones that
    make the "machine" run.... Proof of that in one area is this: Ever try
    to get something through a manager's office?? Who do you contact to get
    it done?? The SECRETARY, right??  You get to the Secretary and it will
    happen!! (B.T.W..I'm a bit prejudiced here....not only do I rely on
    WC-2's for my success, I happen to be married to a Secretary....and I
    KNOW she runs the office she works in....)
    
      John Mc

    ??????  say what ?????
    
    A wage class 2 working unreported/unpaid hours is ILLEGAL.  The term
    unexempt means not exempt from federal labor laws.  DEC could be in
    major trouble if wage class two people are working unpaid time.
    
    Matbe you should discuss this practice with personel, or your lawyer.
    A whole group of Ford Aerospace people were FIRED for working
    unreported time, and FORD was fined $Ms for the violation.
    

    >    A whole group of Ford Aerospace people were FIRED for working
    >    unreported time, and FORD was fined $Ms for the violation.
    
    I honestly suspect that the FACC people were working on a Government
    contract. The issue is that ALL time must be accounted for in order to
    prevent overcharging and fraud.

	Many years ago I was WC2 and worked overtime one night. The 
	next morning was told I wasn't going to get paid the time
	and a half, that I'd have to take comp time.

	I told my boss "Fine, I'll take 1.5 hours off for each hour
	I worked overtime"  He was not a happy camper.. He started
	to object and then shut up when I told him that to not report
	the time was against the law and that it would be out of our
	hands if it was found out.  I got my time and a half comp time.

							mike

Good for you, Mike, but I'm pretty sure that comp time itself is prohibited
in the federal Wage and Hour Act.  

> Good for you, Mike, but I'm pretty sure that comp time itself is prohibited
> in the federal Wage and Hour Act.  

Last I knew, comp time is legal for hourly workers, but it DOES have 
to be granted at time-and-a-half if it represents overtime.

- tom]

I believe the Colorado Springs manufacturing plant closed between Christmas and
New year about 2 years ago.  Since I'd planned on taking vacation at that time
anyway I didn't pay too much attention to it, but I seem to recall that people
were given the option of either taking vacation or taking unpaid time off if 
they didn't have the vacation time accrued.

Perhaps someone with a better memory than mine can clarify?

-  David