Conference 7.286::digital

    Re .0 (ljj):
    
    >Ok. So how come we sell DECstations, DECmailWorks, DECfuse, DECsystems,
    >DECpc's, 1-800-PC-BY-DEC, DECchips, DECnet, etc?
    
    "DEC" is a registered trademark; derivitive names are prot ected as
    trademarks.  _But_ a trademark shouldn't be used as a noun.  Therefore,
    we don't sell "DECstations"; we sell either "DECstation workstations,"
    "DECstation systems," or "DECstation configurations."  A trademark is
    an adjective.  Thus, "DECnet protocol," "DECsystem configurations,"
    DECfuse implementation," etc.  The same is true of "VAX" (e.g., "VAX
    computers"), "PDP" ("PDP-11 systems"),  etc.
    
    "DEC" happens to be the Wall Street abbreviation for the company, but
    that's an abbreviation, not a name ("NY" is the postal abbreviation
    for New York," too; not a proper name).
    
    What consequences ensue if "DEC" is used to refer to the company by its
    employees (especially officially)?  Simple: we lose "DEC" as a
    trademark, and as a generic, anybody can use it.  Ditto any of our
    other trademarks.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    
    Ok, but, for example - IBM is a registered trademark of International
    Business Machines. IBM PowerStation is an IBM product. And IBM
    employees refer to IBM as IBM. Just like many companies Trademarks are
    their official company names - ie. GM, Exxon, Conrail, etc.... 
    
    In point of fact, I ALWAYS say "Digital" when describing the company
    I work for. But I have FREQUENTLY when talking to customers heard
    things like, "Digital, who are they? We have DEC computers here.", or
    "Wait a minute, Digital is made by HP now, what does DEC make in this 
    range". etc. ...
    
    /ljj
    

>> we HAVE to stop this behaviour, else dire consequences will ensue.
    
If you don't stop, what are they going to do - threaten to fire or
lay you off?  Living with a threat like that would be new to us all. 
NOT.

    re: .2
    
>                                                         . And IBM
>    employees refer to IBM as IBM.
    
    The difference is that IBM employees refer to their company as
    'eye-bee-em' (i.e., each letter is pronounced individually) whereas
    DEC employees refer to the company as 'deck' (i.e., using the
    abbreviation as a word).

    re: .3
    What are they going to do if we continue in our unrepentant use of the
    term DEC ?  Make us ineligible for any TFSO packages until we use the
    term Digital correctly for 9 weeks plus 2 weeks for each year of
    service.  Got it?  Spell it... digital  digital  digital  digital
    
    ;*)  ;*) ;*) ;*)
    
                                   

    Nero fiddles while Rome burns.  While our stock price seeks it's
    theoretical minimum; while the main topic of conversation in every
    facility for the past three years is how many, when and what's the
    package; while the average employee can't tell you what strategy the
    company is following to get us out of this mess:  We continue to PAY
    people to worry about this shit?
    
    Al
    

IBM's Arabic-speaking employees have been reprimanded for not using the
letters but pronouncing the name as if it were a word, Ibm.

    Re: .6
    
    The author of the article knows what his job is and does it, keeping
    track of an important detail for any corporation and articulating
    the necessary information to the employee population.

    Well after we've been "right sized"  we will probably be known as DE or
    digit.  And if we don't get our s**t together, whoever buys us may want
    to change our name as well.  It's hard to believe that there are still
    pickers of nits left.  I've heard of "functional" managers, this is
    must be one of the "nonfunctional" or "disfunctional" types.
    
    DAR

    re: DEC vs D.E.C.
    
    So, if IBM can write "IBM" and say "eye-bee-em", DEC should be able to
    write "DEC" and say "dee-ee-cee", correct?
    
    That would mean that, in a court of law, the opposition would not be
    able to use any documentary evidense, since it is okay to spell the
    term "DEC" as long as it is said "dee-ee-cee".  So, it would seem that
    the opposition would have to gather a LARGE number of witnesses, each
    of whom would have to take the time to swear to the fact that certain
    Digital employees pronounced the term "DEC" as "deck" (but not in the
    context of "DECstation" or "DECsystem", since that is an acceptable
    use of the trademark, correct?)  Sounds like a tough case to prove
    without being able to use supporting paperwork.  Not impossible, but
    tough.
    
    -- Russ

    DEC DEC DEC DEC DEC DEC DEC DEC 
    
    There, now I feel better!!!  ;^}

DEC, I guess I've been guilty of using it for nye on 8 years.  It's easier to
say when you say who you work for (as opposed to 'I work for Digital Equipment
Corporation'), more people seem to know who 'DECk' is, (they say 'oh you mean
DECk'), and saying 'I work for Dee-ee-cee' just plain sounds wrong.  

If it's THAT important, i'll consider using Digital (even if people still
think we make watches).

Regards,
John 'DECk' Hurst
 

    
    I guess there are two issues here, one being the intricasies of
    trademark protection, and two, the DEC/Digital "popular name". 
    
    As an employee for 6 years, and customer for 8 years before that, 
    dealing with probably thousands of other employees, customers, and
    other contacts from the US, Europe and Japan, I can safely say that
    in 95% or more cases the company was always referred to as Deck. 
    
    I guess I don't understand why with this much name recognition, why
    we want to insist on using the generic word Digital - it's like IBM
    deciding to call it's products International. 
    
    As for the first point again, if our logo is a trademarked
    d|i|g|i|t|a|l, are we not diluting the logo by calling the company
    Digital? I thought this was the problem with Kodak's trademark?
    
    /ljj
    

    
    Double ended queue?

    Reminds me of a "problem" I have because of my religion.  In my church,
    we've been told that when our friends ask what church we belong to we
    should respond with the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints".
    The usual response is something like, "huh?"  That's usually followed
    with a quick, "I'm a mormon."  Then, folks suddenly understand.
    
    The problem was that "mormon", though a popular term, was thought to be
    derogatory and sent the wrong message about how members worship.  (We
    don't worship a guy named Mormon, for example.)  So, it was felt that
    the wrong message was getting out.  In our case, we could do ourselves 
    real damage be referring to ourselves in a misleading way.  Hence, the
    advice from our leaders.
    
    Sounds like a similar problem with use of the term "DEC", only I don't
    understand the fuss if "DEC" is registered.  So, it's not quite like 
    "mormon" though I note that people nowadays do look at me kind of funny 
    if I say I work for "DEC" ...  :)
    
    Steve

    Re .13 (ljj):

    >I guess I don't understand why with this much name recognition, why
    >we want to insist on using the generic word Digital - it's like IBM
    >deciding to call it's products International. 
    
    Because the _word_ "digital" isn't a trademark, registered or
    otherwise.  This isn't a matter of sense; it's a matter of law.

    >As for the first point again, if our logo is a trademarked
    >d|i|g|i|t|a|l, are we not diluting the logo by calling the company
    >Digital? I thought this was the problem with Kodak's trademark?
    
    No, because what's trademarked is "the Digital logo" rather than the
    word.  

    The problem with Kodak wasn't the logo.  When George Eastman developed
    the camera, he decided to give it a short, snappy [pun unintentional,
    but relevant] name that would be easy to remember.  He made up the name
    (although it's close to "Kodiak," the name was one Eastman coined).
    The company originally wanted to make people think of "Kodak" instead
    of "camera"; they almost succeeded.  However, they found out through
    their legal staff that if people used the word that way (e.g., "Wait
    here while I get my Kodak.") that the trademark protection would vanish
    and anyone could use the word.  That happened to "aspirin," which in
    Europe was the trademarked name of a product.

    The "dire consequences" to saying "deck" for the company isn't to the
    individual saying it: it's to the validity of the word as a protected
    trademark.

    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    When I lived in NY State, dee ee cee was taken to mean NYS Department
    of Environmental Conservation. Of course, back there if you said 
    Digatal Equipment, they might say "Oh, you do the Boston Pops concerts
    on PBS" (only the few who watched PBS :^)
    
    Mike

    
    Geeeeesh. Deja Vooooo. 
    
    I was with Xerox in ...1975 or was it 74. Can't recall. Anyway, their
    xerography patents had expired, and the competition and their lousy
    quality was killing them. Kill off our plant in Calif.
    
    So during all this, they come out with a corporate edict regarding the
    use on the name Xerox. For example: I'm gonna go xerox my face etc etc.
    And they insisted you go around correcting people when you overheard
    them use it in that sense. So here is this huge company, going down the
    drain, worrying about it's name. 
    
    The problem with this company is that we are not that well known,
    outside of the industry. I mean, just ask your grocer, or baker or
    whomever. After 30+ years you would expect more visibility. Out here in
    the west they think we make watches.
    
    Now fix that first, maybe it will pay off.
    
    

    Regarding the loss of aspirin as a trademark.  It was lost at the
    commencement of World War I along with the trademark "bayer", the name
    of the German company selling aspirin in the United States.

    Aspirin fell into the public domain.  "Bayer" I believe has been
    maintained by Whitehall Laboratories as a trademark.
    
    Formica, Thermos, Sanka, Band-Aid, and Monopoly are some of the others
    that immediately come to mind.

re Note 1971.16 by HELIX::KALLIS:

>     However, they found out through
>     their legal staff that if people used the word that way (e.g., "Wait
>     here while I get my Kodak.") that the trademark protection would vanish
>     and anyone could use the word.  That happened to "aspirin," which in
>     Europe was the trademarked name of a product.
  
        We should be so lucky that "DEC" becomes a generic term for
        computer!

        Bob

I think I saw a memo recently that encouraged us to use "Digital" when referring
to the company.  "DEC" should be used as part of product names.  Therefore, you
don't work for DEC, you work for Digital.

Paul

As Sales would say.."Call me anything you like; just call me!"

    re.  .20
    
    To my father (and his generation) 
    
    	computer  =  IBM machine
    
    (this is even after his son has been at this company [DEC or Digital]
    for 16 years!!!!)
    
    	-Barry-
    

    ...many of the brokerage houses still refer to the place where they
    place their [mainframe] computers as "IBM Rooms."
    
    /Ed

	the thing that bothers me about this entire thread (and the
	orginal article that spawned it) is that it seems to ignore
	that fact that "DEC" is a *pronouncable acronym* of
	the company name. Somehow I find it impossible to place this
	in the same category as the other lost trademark words described in 
	previous replies....it is easy to understand why the same "issue" 
	is not pervasive with IBM, HP, GM, GTE, etc....I also find it 
	impossible to imagine that anyone would be ignorant enough to think 
	that 100,000 people (internal) plus any of the customer base that has 
	managed to acknowledge our existance are going to suddenly start 
	calling us "D" "E" "C" or "Digital"....that is culturally rediculous...
	although I (grudgingly) admit that the author of .0 is probably
	a necessary corporate evil, I can't help remembering that these are
	the folks that brought us the "Lanworks" fiasco and almost named
	our new computers "ARA"........can't we find something more
	constructive for these people to do???

	_kelley

    So the problem, supposedly, is that a customer will get confused when
    a sales person from company ZZZ offers to sell them DECsomething which
    is not made by us.
    
    Customer:  So, you want me to by DECsomething. That's strange, you're
    not my normal {Digital|DEC} sales rep.
    
    ZZZ sales rep: Whoops , we hadn't though of that. Back to the drawing
    board.
    
    Michael
    
    (who works for "Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Limited
    ACN 000 446 800" known to our customers as "DEC")

    How absurd.

	Everyone that I know of outside the company calls us DEC, from
	loyal customers to members of DECUS to the press. On one famous
	occasion the mayor of Reading, where we have our UK headquarters,
	is said to have revealed in public that he didn't know that
	"Digital" was the same as "DEC" (which he was used to).

	Since I was first told to, some years ago, I have carefully
	used Digital instead of DEC. Some of the people in the media
	department got overenthusiastic with the global substitution
	feature in their word processors, and produced a spate of documents
	which not only corrected "DEC" to "Digital", but "December"
	to "Digitalember", "decrement" to "Digitalecrement", etc.

	One thing bothers me about all this "using a trademark as an
	adjective" stuff. When did you last hear someone ask for a
	"Coca-Cola soft drink", some "Chanel No 5 perfume", "a Porsche
	automobile", etc?

	I really don't know which is more important, this preservation of
	trademark rights, or market awareness. But I can't help linking
	the company's current financial situation with its priorities in
	this matter.

	/Tom

One of the reasons you still hear the company referred to as DEC rather than
Digital over here is that, for years, that was the official line. Then it
changed... However, the outside world, especially the computer press, still
calls the company DEC. When they write Digital, they're referring to Digital
Research Corp.. It's difficult to change such ingrained habits.

A second reason is that we humans are inherently lazy; it is far easier to say
DEC than Digital. DEC is a short, hard acronym. Digital is long and has a
mushy soft sound in the middle of two hard ones; it's easy to slur...

Gavin

    re - .28
    
	>adjective" stuff. When did you last hear someone ask for a
	>"Coca-Cola soft drink", some "Chanel No 5 perfume", "a Porsche
	>automobile", etc?
    
    In parts of the deep south (US) Coke is a generic term for any
    carbonated beverage - "Give me an orange coke".
    
    Mike 
    

    As soon as a company starts worrying about the legal niceties of
    trademarks, patents, and such, you can be sure its on a downhill run. 
    Vigorous, growing companies don't have the energy for such.  The
    lawyers can only be heard because the operations are being shut down.
    
    /rab

    re: .31
    In the same vein, I think we're spending far too much time being
    misty-eyed and maudlin about the "old DEC."  I've been here 23
    years and have as many fond memories of the mill as anybody, but
    if we had that same energy going for us today we wouldn't have 
    time for all the reminiscences.  We also wouldn't be in the hole
    we are now, either.  IMO.

    re .32
    
    We're "spending far too much time" because we have it.
    
    /rab

    Rear Windowing:

    Living on past glories and "remembering the old times" is a bit like
    driving with your face in your rear view mirror... while you're enjoying
    the past you not only deprive yourself of seeing what is ahead of you
    while you have time to react to it - but more often than not, you'll run
    spack dab into something that just might do you an injury!

    gailann

There's a copy shop near me that has this sign in the window: "We rent IBMS."

Who do you think makes more money, you or the lawyer who frets over this?

Who do you think is more important to Digital, you or the lawyer?

Who do you think will still be employed when the other is gone?

Let's just call ourselves "the 2nd largest computer company", or can we
even still do THAT anymore?

Don

I'm trying to call 1 (800) PC-BY-D.E.C.

but it doesn't work.  Can someone help me, please?

    re: -1
    
    How do you do that?  My phone is missing a period.

    time for an E.P.T. ?????
    
    ;*)  ;*)

It is almost inevitable that if an organization uses an abbreviation for
its name that can be pronounced as a word it will be.

How often these days do we hear of N.A.T.O.?

Perhaps we should also be careful to refer to V.A.X. computers?

jb

    
    Couple of books at the library covered some really nice corporations to
    work for that were doing well. Gave histories and their accomplishments
    etc. Both were printed around 1980.
    
    Both books stated that Digital Equipment Corp is usually referred to as
    DEC by both inside the company and outside.  
    
    Does this mean the books should be burned?
                                                

    If it were that much of an issue, someone would have instructed the
    groundskeepers in Merrimack by now to destroy the bushes in front of
    the MKO1 lobby that are shaped like the letters D E C. Not exactly 
    topiary at its finest, but I like it and think it's quite a striking
    addition to the landscape.
    
    Mike

 I'm sure Napoleon Solo really hated being called "The Man from UNCLE"
instead of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E".  I read a few from the "U.N.C.L.E."
series, and there were some old Timers in the nemesis organization
T.H.R.U.S.H. that did not use the acronym, but rather referred to themselves
as members of the "Heirarchy".  By the way, if you didn't know:

U.N.C.L.E. = United Network Command for Law and Enforcement
T.H.R.U.S.H. = Technological Heirarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and
                the Subjugation of Humanity

    Re .37:
    
>I'm trying to call 1 (800) PC-BY-D.E.C.
>
>but it doesn't work.  Can someone help me, please?
    
    Easy.  Just get a telephone without any periods on its dial. ;-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

RE: 43

     U.N.C.L.E.  &  T.H.R.U.S.H.  -------

        Where are you when we need ya!  :*) 

    Re: .25
    
>	although I (grudgingly) admit that the author of .0 is probably
>	a necessary corporate evil, I can't help remembering that these are
>	the folks that brought us the "Lanworks" fiasco and almost named
>	our new computers "ARA"........can't we find something more
>	constructive for these people to do???

    
    Excuse me? I posted .0 to point out the apparent stupidity of this
    issue, not to suggest that it's a good idea. I'd beg your indulgence
    to re-read my note and my replies, and offer my assurance that I am
    hardly a corporate evil, neccessary or otherwise...
    
    
    /ljj

    
    I have to admit, it's hard to stop using the term "DEC" when Digital
    corporate itself proliferates its use throughout the industry, i.e.
    
    				DECworld
    
    
    
    				

Re .16:

>    Because the _word_ "digital" isn't a trademark, registered or
>    otherwise.  This isn't a matter of sense; it's a matter of law.

We claimed it was a trademark within the past 10 years.  Check the orange
paperback VAX C manual.

So, did we lose the "DIGITAL" trademark, or did we never have it in the
first place?
				/AHM

    	When I came here, someone told me to get use to the abbreviations of
    terms...i.e. Temp, Spec, Qual, DEC, PWB and so on.

    	Do these terms need to have a Patent on them?

    B.A.

How would you all like it if a bunch of lawyers were making fun of your
code?

This is a real issue.  Would Bayer be better off if they had vigorously
protected their trademarked term "aspirin"?  What if only Bayer could sell
the famous "Aspirin" while everyone else was reduced to selling generic
salacylic acid?

"Cellophane" was once exclusive to a single company.  In the last couple 
of years, the Thermos company (incredibly) lost the right to the name 
"Thermos" for vacuum bottles.  Now everyone sells lower-case "thermos" 
bottles.  In the case of Thermos, the court found that the company itself 
had used the term generically in internal communications.  The court 
decision didn't change the name of the company, but it took away their 
claim to the exclusive use of the name for their products.

Coca-Cola employs private investigators who go around the world ordering
"Coke" and "Coca-Cola".  If anyone serves 'em a Pepsi, the company slaps
a writ on them.

It's really not complicated.  "Digital" is the name of the company, not
trademarked.  "DEC" is used in many of the company's trademarked terms.

These trademarks have value.  If others could sell "DEC" products, they'd
be making money off our work.

Just a note, but when I first applied for a job here, I'd never heard of
DEC or Digital Equipment.  The guy sent me to "Digital Equipment, you know,
DEC", which I wrote down as "DEQ".

    re: .36
    
    >Let's just call ourselves "the 2nd largest computer company", or can
    >we even still to THAT anymore?
    
    Just received the latest edition of DATAMATION listing the top 100
    computer companies in the world.  Digital is ranked #4, behind IBM,
    Fujitsu, and NEC.  We are still #2 in the US (U.S.), but we lost
    another notch in the world standings.
    
    tgc

Re .16:

Now that VTX service is available again...

  DIGITAL TRADEMARK LIST                WorldWide Law - Trademark Information
 
          "DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY" - Rev. 06/19/92     Page 21 of 23

 PRODUCT OR SERVICE NAME             TYPE OF PRODUCT OR SERVICE
...
     Digital                             Goods, services
     DIGITAL EQUIPMENT FRANCE            Hardware, Software (France)
     DIGITAL-FINANS logo                 Hardware, Software (Sweden)
     DIGITAL HAS IT NOW                  Services
     DIGITAL logo                        House mark - goods, services
     DIGITAL logo (in Hebrew)            Hardware, Software (Israel)
     Digital Press                       Publishing, publishing services
     Digital Solutions library           Software library
     Digital Workstand                   Hardware
...

>Coca-Cola employs private investigators who go around the world ordering
>"Coke" and "Coca-Cola".  If anyone serves 'em a Pepsi, the company slaps
>a writ on them.

It's always a hoot to order "a cola".  A typical response is "we don't have any
cola, will a Coke do?"


I want to know when those-who-need-a-life will start whupping on those who work
to subvert Digital's valuable "PDP" trademark to mean "PDP-11".  It reminds me
of the ancient Egyptians who chipped rivals' names off of obelisks.
				/AHM

    Re .52 (Alan):
    
>          -< Digital is a trademark of Digital Equipment Corporation >-
    
    Amazing!   Capital-D, of course.  If chasllenged, that'un might be
    difficult to maintain.
    
>>Coca-Cola employs private investigators who go around the world ordering
>>"Coke" and "Coca-Cola".  If anyone serves 'em a Pepsi, the company slaps
>>a writ on them.
>
>It's always a hoot to order "a cola".  A typical response is "we don't have any
>cola, will a Coke do?"
    
    Actually, it could be a Pepsi, a Dr. Pepper, a Friendly's, or any other
    name-brand cola other than the famous Coke.   I'm bemused that the
    agent ("private investigator" is a bit fancy for such a person) is
    violating the trademark by not saying, "A Coke soft drink."
    
    On the "a cola" versus "a Coke": I suppose if you ordered "a Coke" and
    the refreshment facility didn't want to violate copyright, they could
    always bring you a piece of treated fossil fuel.  ;-)
    
>I want to know when those-who-need-a-life will start whupping on those who work
>to subvert Digital's valuable "PDP" trademark to mean "PDP-11".  ...
    
    Alas, there are people within the company who are totally unaware of
    the PDP heritage.  "PDP," FWIW, is one of Digital's few _registered_
    trademarks (others include "DEC," "FLIP-CHIP," and "FOCAL"); the others are
    standard trademarks (examples:  VAX, Rainbow, Professional, ALL-In-1,
    etc.).   Derivitive PDP identifiers (e.g., "PDP-11," "PDP-4," "PDP-8,"
    etc.) are also standard trademarks.
    
    As those of us oldtimers have our ranks thin, fewer people will make
    that distinctiom.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

	re: .46
	meant to say "the author of the article refered to in .0"...

	_k

>>Just a note, but when I first applied for a job here, I'd never heard of
>>DEC or Digital Equipment.  The guy sent me to "Digital Equipment, you know,
>>DEC", which I wrote down as "DEQ".
    
    Somehow, I'm not surprised  :-)
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob

re Note 1971.50 by RAGMOP::T_PARMENTER:

> This is a real issue.  Would Bayer be better off if they had vigorously
> protected their trademarked term "aspirin"?  What if only Bayer could sell
> the famous "Aspirin" while everyone else was reduced to selling generic
> salacylic acid?

        The point is that this isn't going to happen in the case of
        "DEC" or "VAX" -- "DEC" won't be generic for "computer
        company" and "VAX" will never be a generic term for
        "computer".

        If "Alpha" is fabulously successful, then "Alpha" MIGHT become
        generic for a CPU (but "Alpha" alone will not be a trademark).

        So from what is Digital being protected?

> These trademarks have value.  If others could sell "DEC" products, they'd
> be making money off our work.
  
        I believe others have sold products of the form "DEC<mumble>"
        -- we can't trademark a whole family of words.

        Bob

RE: .54 >> the others are
        >> standard trademarks (examples:  VAX, Rainbow, Professional, ALL-In-1,

A minor nit, but I'm sure the ALL-IN-1 folks would prefer you to spell 
ALL-IN-1 in all caps.....

Keith R>

>        company" and "VAX" will never be a generic term for
>        "computer".


	But could "VAX" take over as the generic name for a vacuum cleaner?

    minor nit  re: .50
    
    aspirin is not salicylic acid, but the acetate ester of salicylic acid. 
    chemically called 2-(Acetyloxy)benzoic acid or simply as
    acetylsalicylic acid.
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    After that explanation, I think I need to take a couple of
    2-(Acetyloxy)benzoic acid tablets (tm, (c), ad naus...).  :) :)
    
    --- Gavin

I thought the article in DECworld was well written, legally accurate,
and totally beside the point, because it ignored the business issue.

Much of the point of the article was to protect the name Digital.  I
just returned from a conference where the tools fair had both a Digital
booth and a Digital Consulting, Inc. booth.  There's also a Digital
Research, a Western Digital, and probably several more.  My conclusion
is that the name Digital doesn't have enough value to our business to
be worth worrying about; the only time it's ever recognizable as belong
to Digital Equipment Corp. is in our logo.

DEC, on the other hand, has huge name recognition.  It has business
value worth protecting - so much so, that it might be to our benefit to
rename the company to be DEC, although KO might disagree.  There are
certainly precendents for this; I believe the DECworld article
suggested that IBM has been officially renamed from International
Business Machines Corporation.  

re: .1

>    What consequences ensue if "DEC" is used to refer to the company by its
>    employees (especially officially)?  Simple: we lose "DEC" as a
>    trademark, and as a generic, anybody can use it.  Ditto any of our
>    other trademarks.

Calling the company "DEC" doesn't make the term generic.  I don't
believe that calling the company DEC would threaten our ownership of
that trademark, anymore than an employee of the Minnesota Mining and
Manufacturing Corporation threatens their ownership of 3M by using that
abbreviation for that company.  (By now, I think they've done the smart
thing and rename their company to fit their image.)

It does threaten our ownership of the term "Digital", by reducing our
usage of the term.  Trademarks must be actively used to maintain protection.

   Gary

	re .62:

>I thought the article in DECworld was well written, legally accurate,
>and totally beside the point, because it ignored the business issue.
>... My conclusion is that the name Digital doesn't have enough value to
>our business to be worth worrying about; the only time it's ever
>recognizable as belong to Digital Equipment Corp. is in our logo.
>
>DEC, on the other hand, has huge name recognition.  It has business
>value worth protecting - so much so, that it might be to our benefit to
>rename the company to be DEC, although KO might disagree.

	Right on! This is exactly the important point here!

	/Tom

    This sounds like we're in as bad a shape as United Press International,
    Western Union or Howard Johnson's.  Companies whose most valuable asset
    is the name recognition they once had.

When I was living in Seattle, there was a company called "Digital Systems
International".   When I told folks I worked for Digitial Equipment Corp, they
almost always said "Oh, Digital Systems - in Redmond, right?"

Then I'd have to explain who Digital was.

Trademark issues aren't trivial, or to be made light of.   Maybe in the GMA,
everyone knows who or what Digital or DEC is - but folks, its a big world
out there - there is life beyond the 495 corridor and souther New  Hampshire.

JD

    re:.62
    I received an envelope today from "International Business Machines
    Corporation", so "IBM" is NOT the company name.  Of course, the full
    name was in little type, while the stylized "IBM" ran in huge striped
    letters all the way across the envelope.
    
    Some of the buncombe that supposedly emanates from lawyers has the ring
    of a Texas politician's speeches.  Not to mention what else comes out
    of Texas' famous longhorned beasts.

re Note 1971.66 by CARAFE::GOLDSTEIN:

>     I received an envelope today from "International Business Machines
>     Corporation", so "IBM" is NOT the company name.  Of course, the full
>     name was in little type, while the stylized "IBM" ran in huge striped
>     letters all the way across the envelope.
  
        Yes, our failure to be known and recognized isn't due to a
        "technicality".

        Bob

KO told a story about the official vs popular names once.  I don't recall
all of it, but I'll try to reconstruct:

The company originally intended the short form of its name to be DEC,
but discovered people calling it DIGITAL.  So the board decided to call the
company DIGITAL and soon thereafter found everyone (meaning the customers)
calling it DEC.  If I remember the story correctly, the board voted to go
back to the name DEC.  Later that evening the board and their spouses
were having dinner.  The spouses thought it was silly to keep changing
the name because people were going to call the company whatever they
wanted to.  The board immediately reconvened and cancelled the name
change.

It's simple reality, people do and will continue to use the name DEC no
matter how hard we try to change that.  We've spent much of the last
two DECades trying to reinforce the Digital name and ignore our historical
moniker.  We've had mixed success.

I don't think we should work very hard trying to eliminate the DECk
pronunication in verbal communications.  In written communications,
particularly customer communications, it has *always* been the case that
Digital Equipment Corporation, Digital, or D.E.C. are the forms to
use...not DEC (which is not the company name nor a company trademark nor
correct English).

Hal

Or....  We don't care what you call us, just call us!

While in England on vacation last week I saw in a listing of contributors
to an arts program that we had listed ourselves as DEC rather than Digital
or Digital Equipment Corporation.

John

    * Donald Neil Bevis (R) 1952, W. & M. Bevis, all rights reserved. 
      Unauthorized reproduction, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited.
      Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is purely
      hereditary.  

    You think that the using of DEC or D.E.C. or Digital cause controversy, 
    follow the All-in-1 or ALL-IN-1 or A1 or ALL-in-1 or All-IN-1 or
    All-IN-ONE notes conference.  Those product managers are VERY sensitive
    as to how you say and write the product name.  But it's so funny.  In
    just about ALL the trade rags I've read, just about all of them print
    the trademark incorrectly.  But you know, my customers still know what
    they (the articles) are talking about.  Now isn't that worth something?
    
    Finding this note interesting,
    
    mld
    Digital Services (Western Region or Area)
                                             

       Surely it's a huge advantage to have a catchy, simple company label
    on a company's products? Some customer who's got their network of
    DECstations will tend to notice software beginning with DEC... rather
    than some obscure name as the products designed for their systems by
    the company who built them.
    
       I also think that DEC has a subliminal to it; 'dec-' as in 'ten'
    suggests 'ten out of ten' to me.
       Perhaps MORE could be made of this acronym; a name like DECAID
    really sticks in one's mind...
    
    Paul.
    

    
    	Last weekend there was a Golf Tournament, "Digital Seniors Classic"
    Not D.E.C. Seniors Classic or DEC Seniors Classic.
    
    	Does this example decide the issue - as in "Digital" is the proper
    term to use when refering to ourselves to the outside world?
    
                                             Bill

    
> Last weekend there was a Golf Tournament, "Digital Seniors Classic"
>   
> Does this example decide the issue - as in "Digital" is the proper
> term to use when refering to ourselves to the outside world?
 
  Only if people said "'Digital' ? Ah, the computer software/hardware/services
  company" rather than "WTF are 'Digital Seniors' ?" :-)

  Frank

    
    re. 75
    
    	Bill, did you also happen to notice the logo used? The spelling
    was in all caps DIGITAL. I'm sure the vast majority of viewers did
    not realize that the computer company Digital, was the sponsor of
    the tournament. I wonder if we will continue to support this event
    in the future. IMHO I believe it is good business if - the audience
    is 'enlightened' as to who we are.
    
    		fred deady
    		wbc::deady
    		dtn 425.3379

    How come we allowed IBM to advertise during the classic?
    
    IBM contributed with the scoring, according to TV.

	Does this mean the next huge exposition that we hold where we show
	off our stuff is going to be called DigitalWorld? Or should that be
	DIGITALWorld?

Larry

    
    
    
     re:- .75
    
    Well, Surprise Surprise.
    
    Found from VTX that EDU Services have given a course number and
    duration to the event..
    
    Wonder how many went on this 5 Day Onsite Course, without losing
    vacation..
    
    Gee! Boss, I just got to attend this very important course..
    ( Wonder what the pre-requisites were)
    :-)
    
    
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> PRODUCT OR SERVICE NAME             TYPE OF PRODUCT OR SERVICE
>...
>     Digital                             Goods, services

	If we can get Digital as a trademark, why don't we just get
	DEC (no dots, "deck") as a trademark also, and save us all
	a lot of hassles?

	Jim Patterson

   Another contractor at my site (he works for ARC) is in the process of
   building a wooden deck at his house.  He asked me (since I have done
   such endevers in the past) my opinions on various matters concerning
   his deck.
   
   He has never ceased in his efforts to recruit me to help build his
   deck.  Coerssion, bribery, flattery have not worked.  But today he
   used a new approach.
   
   He told me that I am the ideal person to help build his deck.  When I
   asked why he responded, "Because you work for DEC.  Who else would be
   better suited for it?"
   
   I told him I don't do watches either.

    
    From "Digital Today"
    
    "The following are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation:
    ...DEC, DECmate, DECUS, DECwindows, DECWORLD, DIGITAL logo...etc..."
    
    

    As a final tribute to our outgoing founder, why not take this
    opportunity to correct all the problems surrounding the name "Digital"
    and rename the company...

    OLSEN COMPUTER SYSTEMS

    --- Paul

    
    K.O. had an aversion to naming things after people (including himself).
    
    May I suggest as an alternate:  OS/1  for Olsen Systems/first
    
    This would fit into the industry penchant for TLAs and at the same time
    get us some recognition from pre-existing stuff already in the market
    like OSI and OS/2.
    
    JN

    You don't *know* how many times I wanted to correct folks'
    presentations and tell them that the trademarked name is DECWORLD - in
    all upper case.                 

>    You don't *know* how many times I wanted to correct folks'
>    presentations and tell them that the trademarked name is DECWORLD - in
>    all upper case.                 

	Yeah, consistency never was one of Digital Equipment Corporation's
	strong points. DECnet, DECWORLD, DECmcc, ALL-IN-1, etc. This is about
	the only time I wish we still used Teletypes. If all you've got is
	upper case to work with, there can be no case "sensitivity".

Larry

One that really got me was DECsystem-10 and DECSYSTEM-20. What?!

    Singer (when Singer existed as an American company) dabbled in
    computers for a few years and came out with their new product for which
    they obtained a trademark:

    SYSTEM 10

    ...later they discovered that Digital had a product that the media
    would describe as "DEC SYSTEM 10" or "DEC system 10" and Singer didn't
    like that, contacted Digital, and since then capitalization and
    punctuation have been important.

    If we shot all the lawyers, would this be a better place to live?

>    If we shot all the lawyers, would this be a better place to live?
Sure, we'd all be employed manufacturing ammunition.

If we shot all the lawyers, we'd just get a bunch of new lawyers.

The real solution is to shoot the people who hire the lawyers.

    
    	Re: .92
    
    >If we shot all the lawyers, we'd just get a bunch of new lawyers.
    >
    >The real solution is to shoot the people who hire the lawyers.
    
    	Lets see, the person who shot someone else for hiring a lawyer gets
    arrested on murder charges and does what, hires a lawyer to keep
    himself/herself off of death row?  Hmmm, hired a lawyer so now _that_
    person is liable to be shot...  Sounds to me like this plan would
    keep a constant level of lawyers, but eliminate the people who think
    that lawyers are (or "were", before they were arrested ;-) bad.
    
    							-craig

    I'd set the sharks onto the lawyers but professional courtesy would
    stop them.
    
    /a

    It's inhumane to send sharks after lawyers.  They'd get food poisoning ...
    
    Steve

    To eliminate lawyers, just get them out of the legislatures.  Worst
    institutionalized conflict of interest I know of.
    
    Dick

If I were staying in Colorado I would (and have been) giving serious
consideration to a petition effort to change the state constitution to
prohibit anyone who serves in public office from practicing law from 2
years prior to 10 years after their term.  My guess is that the
50,000-odd valid signatures, plus the necessary votes to win the general
election, would be pretty easy to come by!

    Compared with European countries America has about four times the
    number of lawyers per capita of the population.

    So you have all these lawyers running around looking for work and if
    they can't find work they make it, chasing ambulances and encouraging
    people to sue each other.

    I suggest closing down all law schools for 10 years then reopen them
    with a drastically limited output.

    Jamie.

Laugh at lawyers until someone is trying to do you wrong.

Then hire one.  They won't mind that you've been laughing at them.

    Certainly they have their uses. But all this TRIPE about "deck" versus
    "D E C" is just employment for no reason.