Conference 7.286::digital

    I am currently on the H.O.M.E. program and have been since May of 1993. 
    It is very basic.  I have a modem, tube and a laser printer.  2  phone
    lines -- one for voicemail the other for modem.  They are billed on a
    separate billing from my personal line.  I support the MCI sales
    account team out of Colorado Springs and drop down there (from Denver)
    to check in occasionally.  I got my own FAX machine.  I bought a file
    cabinet from a Digital sell-off ($40.00).
    
    I complete an expense report for the cost of the phone lines once a
    month.  It's a little isolating but not that bad.  I get my work
    accomplished is better than half the time since it's pretty much
    interruption-free, save for KBCO in Boulder on the radio.
    
    Dayna Smith is a H.O.M.E. program manager.  She can be reached @DVO.  I
    don't have her phone number handy but am sure it is in ELF.
    
    Contact her for further information.
    

    'Got a VT320, modem, FAX card in my pesonal PC and a "DEC" ordered
    (MCI) special feature that allows me to dial DTN's by just dialing
    1-700-XXX-XXXX. (X=DTN)
    
    It's a short commute but the hours can kill.  I often work till
    10:00pm.
    
    Ira K.

    I've heard rumors that DEC would sell employees on the work at home
    program PC's at a very deep discount (a token amount for IRS purposes).
    
    From the replies here, this doesn't seem to be the case.  Also, does
    anyone have ISDN to the home paid for by Digital?
    

Re ISDN - DEC pays my bills - I'm piloting it in the UK.

Alan

[its great !]

    Here's the problem with ISDN, as I see it.  You can get a NIC card for
    under $100.  However, here's the pricing for ISDN adapters for a PC:
    
    DI205-AA	ISDN PC Controller US	$1280
    DI205-AB	ISDN PC Controller UK	$1280
    
    Now, how about the other end?  What is the price of an ISDN card for my
    VAX so I can get services?  I asked the local IS about a year ago and
    they just kind of had a blank look on their faces.
    
    I believe Pacific Bell in Southern California has the capabilities in
    certain area.  I believe that the cost is about $50 per month, however, 
    add to that the cost of the PC controller and something for my VAX and 
    I couldn't afford it or get my management to buy into it.
    
    Until the PC controller is commidity pricing I don't think ISDN will be
    serious for the average home office.
    

    
    what are the tax (US, CA) implications of this arrangement?

I'd kill for residential ISDN where i'm at.  U.S. West, whoppee.......
(pioneer on the information superhighway, yeah, right - as long as you live in
metro Denver - ok, so I live "in the country," that means everything has to
be more expensive).   9600 baud async DECnet dial-up (though I hear SLIP is
better for this).  It's ok.  Can be painful at times, but it's certainly cost
effective.

re taxes;
Frankly, i'm not sure i'd worry about trying to deduct home office
space.  I can't claim to have done a lot of research, but from what I
have read, the IRS reporting requirements and the depreciation that you
have to take on your house just don't make it worth the hassle anymore.

As far as PC's go; i'm not certain what that has to do with the program;
you bring whatever equipment home that you need; I have my VAXstation 3100 at
home, I expect it to pay for itself this winter by heating the room I keep it
in (it's like having 18 100 watt light bulbs on all the time).

--Scott

    re .6
    
    Taking a deduction for office space in your home is like sending a red
    flag to IRS for an audit.  They have changed the rules in the last
    couple of years ( I'm told) so that taking the deduction is almost
    impossible unless you can prove 100% of your business is done in the
    home.  Sorry about the run on sentence.
    
    Dennis

    We just had a H.O.M.E. presentation las Friday and they gave out a
    handout that explains the entire program.
    
    One of the items is TAXES.  It states that....
    
    "Participation in the H.O.M.E. program doe snot imply employee
    eligibility for a home office deduction on income tax returns.  The
    employee is responsible for understanding the federal, state and local
    tax laws as they apply to his or her particular set of facts and
    circumstances, and shoud seek external tax advice at their own expense
    in preparing individual tax returns".
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    
    C.

    this is the usual "Digital is not responsible for giving out tax
    advice" stuff.  I believe that it would be difficult to claim, as you
    are probably doing the primary part of your work at the customers's
    place of business, not your home.  I have read of a doctor that tried
    to claim a home office for his reports and billing work, but the IRS
    correctly pointed out that his business is carried on in the operating
    room.
    
    Mark

    I certainly hope he isn't using the operating room for pre and post op
    visits along with other business related activities such as billing,
    reading periodicals, etc.  It must be a very expensive office!

Beg to differ about the doctor's home office.  (I think the doctor's name
is Salomon, BTW).

My only difference is with the word "correctly".  

What the doctor *did* do in his home office was record keeping, billing,
and the like.  The hospital or clinic where the doctor did his medical
work would not provide him with facilities to do this at the work site.

My attitude is that record-keeping, and billing, while mind-numbing and tedious
is an integral and essential part of doing business.  I'll point out that the
law *requires* business records to be kept.

I assume that this point of view was expressed, and more eloquently, by the
doctor's lawyers, and that the court was not swayed.  I think that congress
and Bill Clinton (who, after all has a home office) should immediately remedy
this in legislation.  There are pelnty of other safeguards against a spurious
claim of a home office.

Yes, this precedent *does* affect the probable eligibility of H.O.M.E. 
participants.  That is one reason why DEC has been so cautious.

    I keep hearing rumors that more and more people will be encouraged to
    work from home, particularly those whose jobs require them to be on the
    road and/or at customer sites most of the time.  I have also heard that
    this will be done so that more Digital office space can be released,
    even entire sites closed down, with all employees to work from home.
    
    Has anyone else heard this or another version of the HOME rumor?  I would
    think a huge HOME program would go a long way toward killing the 
    rumor mill, since this notesfile would be the only major rumor
    conduit... :)!
    
    M.

    Wouldn't the HOME program seriously affect your ability to climb 
    the corporate ladder, so to speak?

>    Wouldn't the HOME program seriously affect your ability to climb 
>    the corporate ladder, so to speak?


I think the ladder is already full of VPs.

    re: .15
    
    There has been active recruitment for the H.O.M.E. program in Maryland. 
    I have been part of the program in Maryland since its inception in this
    geography.
    
    The program literature has never left any doubt that one of the main
    purposes of the program is to release Digital office space to reduce
    costs.
    
    Yes, the lack of presence in the office does reduce ones access to
    rumors -- however, it does not eliminate it, thankfully  8^}.
    
    
    re: .16
    
    I'm not sure there is much of a corporate ladder to climb, frankly.  I
    have heard very little about promotions in our group during the last
    two or three years.  Those who manage promotions based on performance
    are still likely to do so.  Those who manage promotions based on
    brown-nosing are also still likely to do so.
    
    It may change things a little, but I don't think it hurts too much.
    In fact, top performers may find that their productivity increases from
    the reduced distraction level.  You just have to make certain that your
    boss is aware of your performance (which may happen orally in the
    office, but may take the form of status reports from home).
    
    -- Russ

re: .-whatever


Do any local zoning laws come into effect with moving all this work
into the home (aka residential neighborhood)?

I thought a large amount of the equipment was not "shielded" enough 
to be used in a residential area.  What happens if your neighborhood
suddenly experiences interference (I assume the creator of it is required
to prevent that) when you start moving certain hardware items in?

    Most of our equipment is FCC CLass B which is ok for residential
    use.
    
    				Steve

FWIW - I believe the IRS has produced a booklet outlining exactly what is
and what is not considered a home office. I guess they're cracking down
on folks engaging in "creative accounting."

    re:                  <<< Note 3358.17 by RLTIME::COOK >>>




>>    Wouldn't the HOME program seriously affect your ability to climb 
>>    the corporate ladder, so to speak?


>I think the ladder is already full of VPs.


    not a pretty visual image, this:  when you climb aboard the "corporate
    ladder" your head is pretty damn close to someone else's arse!
    
    tony

    Well, at least it's up someone ELSES, instead of their own! (the most
    common)
    
    'couldn't resist!'
    
    chet

    At our H.O.M.E. presentation, the presenter pointed out that claiming a
    home office was an excellent way to get microscopic examination by the
    IRS, and so might be undesirable whatever benefits may accrue.
    
    My memory still burns with a report (20 years ago, at least) of someone
    whose claim for a home-office was denied, but then was hit by the IRS
    for taking some sort of residential exemption when he sold the home:
    after all, he *did* have a home office, so he couldn't claim the full
    value of the home.  "But you denied me the deduction...!" "True, but
    that doesn't mean you *don't* have a home office!"

    A couple of notes back concerning the effect of taxes and work from
    home.   An article in a recent US News and World Report covered this. 
    From what I remember the IRS is looking at two things:
    
    1) Where do you do hte work that generates income? 
    
    2) Is the home office required or merely convenient?
    
    In the case of the doctor he generates income when he works with
    patients.  The home office was required as the hospital did not 
    provide him an office.  However, the IRS ruled that since he spent 
    so little time in his office (several hours a week) that it was not
    enough to justify the claim.
    
    Closer to home (pun intended).  I am a Specialist in the CSC in
    Colorado Springs and I work from home.  I cannot deduct the office
    space at home because:
    
    1) I am not *required* to work from.  From day one it has been
    described as a privilege. 
    2) Work from is convenient.  I can still go into the office to do my
    job.  The facilities provided are inconvenient but functional.  
    
    Just my $0.02.
    
    Carl
    

    A few pointers on the H.O.M.E. office plus tax issue:
    
    A few months ago I looked into this "privilege".....the information
    sent to me by the program office (May time frame) indicated that it
    was "voluntary" i.e. you could not be forced to participate;  It was
    by agreement between you and your management; You have a sixty-day 
    trial period, after which it could be cancelled if it did not work for
    you (and, presumably) your manager; common office space would still
    be provided (for some groups) to provide for weekly contack/staff
    meetings.
    
    I have no idea if the rules have changed since May, but some of the 
    comments I have seen here seem to fly in the face of the "voluntary"
    aspect.
    
    On taxes:
    
    Since the Tax Reform Act of 1986 (commonly referred to as TRA '86) it 
    has become close to impossible to successfully claim a home office
    deduction.  Note the year and recall who passed it!!  
    
    One of the most damaging rules provides that the space so used must 
    be used exclusively for business purposes for the entire year. (Forget
    about a corner of your family room).  It must be discrete space (read 
    that as a separate room), your employer must not be providing any 
    office space for you (that kills it for the H.O.M.E. program if common 
    space is provided.  In my experience, the deduction you would be taking
    is usually so small as not to make sense IF that will trigger an audit.
    Even if you have nothing to hide, an audit is a messy waste of time.
    
    You may have noticed (or not) that the IRS wants you to flag your
    return if you took a home office deduction.  There is a check box on
    Schedule C.  Now, do you suppose they want that just for fun??!!

    It's a requirement here in Texas as of last week for the field 
    engineers in at least 8 offices. Possibly as many as 15 or 16 
    offices by next month.(I can't remember the exact #).
    
    If I decide it's worth the IRS deduction and subsequent audit I
    plan on enclosing the memo requiring it as supporting documentation
    with my tax return.
    
    reis

    Make sure you have ALL the requirements lined up (per the Internal
    Revenue Code)....and Good luck.
    

It's not completely impossible to deduct a home office.  You just have to 
be damn careful.

I was an independent consultant 1986-1993.  In every one of those years
I deducted home office expense.  I followed the rules.  I put up two interior
walls in the basement, measured the square footage, and came up with the
percentage of the total square footage in the house.  I deducted that percent
off of electricity,  home mortgage, etc. but NOT phone (track expenses 
separately), or water and sewer.  (No incremental expense due to working at
home).

I marked the box in Schedule C that means "Audit me".

The only trouble I ever had with the IRS was due to a time that Digital
paid me twice for the same work.  Being a basically honest fellow, I
returned the duplicate payment, in the form of a separate check.  Digital
didn't minus that amount from the figure they send the IRS at the end
of the year, and my numbers didn't tie out with theirs.

BTW, I had a professional do my taxes.  Yeah, I can run Turbo Tax just like
anybody else.  I can even do the arithmetic myself.  That ain't what's hard.
What's hard for me, and easy for a good professional, is figuring out how
changing tax laws match up with my circumstances.  That's worth money.

Being an "employee" who works at home would have, I expect, a few different
ramifications than being self employed and working at home.

Regards,
    Dave

    Here in Metro Detroit we are all being FORCED into a HOME office!!
    There are planning to close our field offices down except for parts
    stocking locations.  My only problems with this is:
    
     1.	Digital Does Not PROVIDE Business Insurance.
     2. The documentation for the HOME Program states "When
    	ordering the two phone lines DO NOT TELL THE TELCO THAT IT IS FOR
    	BUSINESS USE" ie lie...
     3. No OPERATING COST reimbursement.
    
    	I would not complain about number 3 if it was voluntary but here in
    Metro Detroit it appears to be MANDATORY!!!!
    
    Stuck With Out a Desk...
    
    Don
    

    re: Item 2
    
    You mean you have a written document directing you to commit fraud?

    .30 
    
    Sue 'em.

I asked U.S. West about the phone line bit when I got my phone lines;

Basically, I was told that it depends on how you answer the phone.
If you answer the phone "Digital Equipment Corp.", then it's a business
line.  If you answer the phone "Good morning, this is Scott", then it's
a personal line.  At least that's what I was told.  Your milage may vary.

--Scott

     >2. The documentation for the HOME Program states "When
     >	ordering the two phone lines DO NOT TELL THE TELCO THAT IT IS FOR
     >	BUSINESS USE" ie lie...
    
    The main reason for this is that the phone company puts "business"
    numbers in the Yellow Pages. Yellow Pages advertising is expensive.
    That expense is added to your monthly bill, making a "business" line
    much more expensive than a personal line. We don't need the Yellow
    Pages spot for every field employee in the US, so it makes sense not to
    pay extra for it.
    
    Harry
    

    I wondered about that instruction to put the phone in your name
    to get the residence rate also.  I was a Business Rep for Ma Bell
    for quite a few years, and MB always insisted on charging a business
    rate even for the Mom/Pop type stores whose owners maintained their
    residence in another part of the building.
    
    I wouldn't mind the H.O.M.E. program simply because of convenience;
    but if I would still be expected to answer "DEC-SALE, this is Karen,
    how may I help you" I would also expect Digital to pay the freight
    for a business line.  I was really surprised at the memo that DID
    seem to be telling folks to deceive the phone company.
    
    I hope someone had the legal beagles check this one out.
    
    

    .36
    
    I believe charging business rates vs. residential has more to do
    with State tariffs (law) that it does with advertising in the
    Yellow Pages.
    
    Unless things have changed drastically, I believe one could request
    MB NOT to list the line in the Yellow Pages.
    
    

A magazine, either PC World or Byte, recently ran an article on running a
business from home. They also recommended a residential line, and mentioned a
bulletin board that had about 100 "residential" lines, "much to the amusement of
the telephone company's installers".

    
    note !!  not all telco's require you to have a business phone line
    New England Tel is one of these, you can even have one line with up to
    4 mail boxes on it.  Also, you can connect your on COCOT if you want.
    
    I run a slip connection and a bbs on one of these line
    
    bc

    Digital has had the H.O.M.E. office program in effect for four years or
    so. I believe it was right around the first T.S.F.O. We laid off 50% of
    different groups, increased the work on the remaining employees by at
    least 50%, so the only way to complete your new tasks was to take the
    work H.O.M.E. rgds. RKL.

    
    This week we (MCS-CSC) received a couple memos about working from home. 
    The second phone line in your home must be in your name to save
    Digital the commercial charge; and another sign-up request for the work 
    from home program.  The word is that by Jan. 1st, 60-65% of us must be
    on this program.  I have been told that these are approx. the same 
    percentages for the other organizations in the Area (Zone).
    
    dp
     

    -.1 ... I don't see it.
    
    I work out of the home whenever possible.  No wear and tear on the car,
    no commute, no dry-cleaning, fewer distractions, more work gets done
    and, when my day's over, I merely walk out of my office and I'm home. 
    It's like teleportation.
    
    The second line's in my name.  So what?  I can also use it for personal
    dial-up, when my teenager's on the other line, etc.  The virtual office
    really works for me, as the majority of my group is spread
    geographically or always out at client sites anyway.
    
    Lighten up and look on the bright side.  I don't miss that commute AT
    ALL!
    
    								Tex

    As a contractor working out of a home office, I have to say -- 
    
    I love it.  
    
    In my home office, I never run out of post-its.  I can even have cute
    funny sayings on my post-its without looking unprofessional.  Nobody
    except my checkbook can tell me I can't buy a set of hardwood
    bookshelves that match my hardwood desks.  If I want to take the day
    off, I can always find the boss to ask her -- most of the time she's a
    real slave-driving hardnosed b****, but she can be reasoned with, or
    bribed, and she always has practical reasons ("If you don't finish
    converting that program today, we don't get paid tomorrow.")  She
    *never* refers me to a P&P manual.  
    
    The door is open, so whenever my kids need me, they can come in and get
    me.  (The boss, for all her bossy ways, doesn't mind.)  I don't have to
    worry that somebody else isn't giving them the same snacks I would. 
    They know I'm working and don't interrupt me unless they need to.  
    
    I don't have to worry about missing work to let the plumber or the
    flooring installers into the house.  
    
    I usually finish 8 hours worth of office work in about 4 or 5 hours at
    home.  
    
    I only need one outfit of "business drag" for when I go to interviews,
    face to face meetings, and so forth.  
    
    I hate it when I get a contract like this one, where I have to be on
    site most of the time. 
    
    --bonnie

    
    I would miss the denizens of Palo Alto, the excellent coffee 
    at Lytton Roasting, Noahs Bagels (across the street), the
    ability to go home and not being reminded of work.. 

Re: .45

Amen, sister.

    >>> the ability to go home and not being reminded of work.. 
    
    Yes, this is a definite issue.  For me, shutting the door and going
    downstairs is generally just as effective as driving home in the
    traffic for breaking mentally and emotionally.  But yes, work and
    home do tend to blend a lot more, and I can understand why some people
    might not be comfortable with that.  For myself, and the work I do, I
    find it healthier and more relaxed this way.  I've never liked
    compartmentalizing myself into "work-bonnie" and "home-bonnie".  
    
    --bonnie

Re: .36, .38

Not according to what the phone comany tells me.  (My phone company is NYNEX
in the 413 area).  They tell me that if you get a Business phone, you get an
entry in the Yellow Pages. Period.  And you pay for it. 

I know several people who have residential lines that carry business
conversations, FAXes, and modem communications.

IMO, Digital should offer to pay for the extra line, and expect incoming calls
on that line to be answered the way a person at work would.

As an independent contractor (until this year) I had *two* residential
phones installed for business purposes in my home.  One carries voice,
the other data.

They generated enough *extra* business for me to easily pay for themselves.

Dave

    Being in IM&T the three questions that I have (maybe need to read a lot in
    other differenct conferences) are:
    
    1) Are the networks going be be set up to accommodate our new
       really-distributed environment?  Don't know about you but I take it for
       granted the ability to copy 1000's of blocks files from remote
       locations to my local system.  It will take a while over 9600 baud
       modems.  How about client-server development over phone lines?
    
    2) There should be a lot of facilities savings... but there will need
       to be investment at the "home office" level.   PostScript printing
       really requires an ink jet or laser printer, applications developers
       need faster machines (Alpha PC?), backup tape devices, more local 
       disk storage, etc...  If I could only bring home what I have in my 
       office (since I develop on a mini) I would have a difficult time being 
       very productive.  
    
    3) This should be a very interesting environment to support.  I can
       picture small Digital vans with technical support folks running all
       over an area.  At least the environment will "encourage" everyone to
       become literate at some level of the technology.  :-)
    
    I, for one, am excited about the potential.  I see it as a win-win
    opportunity for Digital and myself.  However, I am a bit skeptical that
    many of the technical issues have not been addressed to allow people to be
    productive.  If people can deal with terminal emulation or uploading
    and downloading small files from a PC to a host machines things are
    probably OK... but...  The person that gave our presentation made some
    statement like "some people only need a pad of paper and a phone.  Most
    people just need a terminal".  Maybe so, but I think that in the future
    environment most people with need a PC and many people (engineers,
    IM&T, etc.) will need more equipment.  I just hope these issues are
    being worked out before everyone finds themselves contending for one of
    five modems to get some work done.
    
    
    Don

    RE .44
    
    	Tex  there is several reasons that I do not care for the H.O.M.E
    program , see .30
    
    	I have contacted my insurance company regarding the liability of
    using my home as an business office.  They stated that if a fire
    was cause by a piece of equipment that was being used for business my policy
    would not cover the damages.  I could purchase a RIDER that would cover
    me in case of such disasters, I feel Digital should foot the bill. 
    Also I am not going to deceive the telephone company for Digital.  And
    last, since Iam being forced into this I do not feel that I should have
    to pay for operating cost encured doing business for Digital.  They
    have already taken away so much from us this, is just one more
    thing!...  I have been working for Digital for over 11 years and have
    given up a ton of my personal life for Digital.  They keep on taking
    and not giving.  I would love to work at home if I did not have to use
    my own equipment/money to fund Digital's business needs.
    
    There light at the end of the tunnel right?
    Don...  

    If you use (PRNSYS::)VTSTAR or NECSC::WinVT or the vaxstation version
    FLOP, AND you use SSU, you can have up to 8 windows AND a file transfer
    going simultaneously.  I use VTSTAR and FLOP with SSU at 2400BPS all
    the time.  es, it does get slow BUT I can do many things at the same
    time.  See the 2 notesfiles mentioned above as well as the TELEWORK
    notes file mentioned earlier.
    
    Mike A.
    
    on H.O.M.E. for 3 years... and loving it!
    

  Rather than repost a BIG note, check out 30.27 in the aforementioned
  RUMOR::TELEWORK conference.  It is a handbook called HOME OFFICE MANAGEMENT
  EFFECTIVENESS (HOME).

  	mikeP

    re: .55
    
    I will go and check things out there.  I did not intend this note to
    turn into a technical discussion... any pointers to notes conferences
    of interest to this topic would probably help everyone... but there is no 
    need to discuss "implementation" things in this note.
    
    Thanks for the pointer,
    
    Don

    Also need to consider utility use in your home.  I adjust my thermostat
    when I leave the house, since no one will be home for about 11-12
    hours.  will Digital reimburse employees for increase utility usage?
    I live in Texas and I know it makes a big difference in the summertime!
    

I wouldn't mind trying to work from home, now that my children are all
off to school.  This is not to say I want to work from home starting on
September 19! ;-}

Mark

   If you get 1 or 2 extra residential lines for working at home, then
   beware.  Make sure that you have the 2nd line unlisted. I ordered a
   2nd residential line, and Digital is paying for that line (via
   expenses).
   
   My regular phone number is xxx-9501.  The data line is xxx-6507. 
   When someone calls directory assistance for my phone number, the
   information people give them the xxx-6507.  (Apparently, their
   computers sort by phone number when displaying them.)

I have a separate "data line" as well.  I was allowed to have the second line
as a "special-non-list" which means it doesn't get printed in the phone book
nor is it available from directory assistance and there is no extra charge
as there is for normal unlisted numbers.

				Steve

I have the same kind of things as .60.

NE Telephone, or NYNEX, or whatever they call themselves these days provides
that option if you have more than 1 phone line.

    An unlimited local calling business line in the Manchester NH
    phone book is $50/mo, plus $75 installation.   One with measured
    local calling is $27/mo, plus installation.  Inludes small listing
    in the yellow pages.  Only worthwhile if you *want* the YP listing.
    
    If DEC will not pay for the 2nd line, but you need it to do the job,
    then you could deduct its cost on your income taxes under (unreimbursed
    business expense).

    I've been on the H.O.M.E. program for a year now and have grown to like
    it very much.  My biggest problem is that I had to put $2k into my
    house to accommodate the extra load on the electricity.  
    
    For the $2k, I upgraded to 200amp service (including changes due to new
    building/fire codes), put in 3 ceiling fans/lights, ran 6 dedicated
    20amp circuits to the office and rewired my kitchen with gfci outlets.
    When I go to sell the house, it will probably increase the value
    somewhat also.
    
    I work at home every day, all day.  I have noticed that my heat bill
    hasn't changed much (I'm on a slab with radiant heat, so couldn't
    really turn the heat down real low anyhow) and my electric bill has
    actually DECREASED by about $40 a month.  The electric company came out
    and checked the meter because of the change, they thought I was pulling
    a fast one on them.  Between cutting out the commuting costs and the
    decrease in 'lectric I'm sure I have broken even by now.
    
    Digital pays for my extra 2 lines into my office and my MCI bill for
    the VNET service.  Initially, they told me to put them in as Business
    service lines, but then I was told to change them to personal lines. 
    The phone company game me no problems.  The second 2 lines are unlisted
    for free because my main home line is listed.  I get a separate bill
    for the work lines, but it is in my name. On personal phone lines, I
    can get unlimitted local service or metropolitan (whole Phila area)
    service...but the business line every call gets charged. Since I dial a
    Philadelphia number for WATN access, I chose the Metropolitan rate for
    my modem line.  The company saves a bundle.  I do have the ability to
    use those lines for personal use (as long as there are no tolls
    associated with the call).  If the phone rings in the office off hours,
    I don't answer it.
    
    I have a PC and an LN07 printer with a 9600 baud modem (Digital owned).  
    The uploading is really bad, but the downloading (to print) is not bad 
    with ZMODEM.  I use KEATerm and do not have DECWindows capability (I wish 
    I did, but have accepted it by now).
    
    My insurance company had no problems with me working from home, however
    they do not give me a break for being home all day.
    
    My biggest complaint is when it comes to ordering things (moot point at
    this time)...many things can ONLY be shipped to a Digital site.  Also,
    some organizations insist on sending inter-office mail.  
    
    I like the fact that I do not have to take off work to be here to let
    the repairman in or to drive to the PO to pick up some package they
    wouldn't leave or ...
    
    I set the alarm in the morning and go to work...at the end of the work
    day, I stop working.  simple as that.  (I have no children to bother me
    with interruptions while I am working).  If I am sick, I put a message
    on my voicemail and turn the phone bell off.  When the electricity is
    off, I can use the laptop (for about 4 hours).
    
    Just in case it matters, I am a programmer and have been working at
    home for several years for specific projects (or snowstorms). 
    
    Cheryl
    

    re: Note 3358.10 by GLDOA::POMEROY
    
    Not so.
    
    The IRS (if you're a taxpayer) audit's you.  The question is simple.
    Do you have a dedicated desk at work?
    No.
    Do you do 80% of your work from your home office?
    Yes. (Fancy that, I gotta come in 1 day out of 5... 80%)
    
    File EVERYTHING under the form Business Use of the Home.  I forget the
    number.  This is a legit deduction.  It may send up an AuDiT mE flag,
    but if you keep your reciepts for EVERYTHING, they don't have a
    case.  Even if you're a taxpayer.
    
    I like working at home.  I live up in the mountains and it's a pain
    to drive in every day.  I miss seeing my friends and chatting face to
    face with people.  You also operate under a microscope.  I tend to
    work more, since technically, I went home a while ago but if I had to
    drive I'd still be on the road.  So I do more stuff now.  I can also
    get to work in a hurry. (It takes 1 minute to walk to my office and
    30 seconds to dial in.  No big deal).
    
    My office is HOT.  HOT HOT...  So what type of machine you use will
    dictate how you (un)dress.  :^) 
    
    You need to be disciplined, which admittedly was "odd" at first, but 
    after a while it's ok.  It's tough trying to remain a human though, but
    my family is home all day long too.  They just know when the door is
    closed it means "keep quiet".
    
    There are still little glitches, gotchas and land mines all over the
    place, but those aren't (shouldn't be) too difficult to resolve.
    
    All in all, I think it's a good deal.
    
    MadMike 

re: Note 3358.30 by GLDOA::LONGAN 
    
>     1.	Digital Does Not PROVIDE Business Insurance.
Your not a business.  If you own your home, you may want to tell your
insurer what's going on.  If they nick you, deduct that for tax purposes.
If you rent and someone steals all your stuff, get a police report and give
a copy of it to your boss (while pulling the lint out of your pockets.)

>     2. The documentation for the HOME Program states "When
    	ordering the two phone lines DO NOT TELL THE TELCO THAT IT IS FOR
    	BUSINESS USE" ie lie...
Not so.  It's not digitals line.  It's yours.  In your name.  It's a 
personal line.  YOU use it to talk to people (for digital).  So what.
Tell the phone company "It's a residential line... put it in already".  
Digital will reimburse you for that expense.  

>     3. No OPERATING COST reimbursement.
I don't know what your talking about here?  Power?  Paper clips?   
   
>    Stuck With Out a Desk...
 
Ta-da... the magic words.  It's tax deducatable.  I do 3 things which
guarantee audits (schedule C, business use of home and Schedule E).  Every
time I've been challenged, I offer a valid reason and they go "OK".  These
people are human.    

    I keep seeing folk saying "it's tax deductable"...
    
    A tax-deduction does not fully offset the cost; only a tax credit does 
    that. You're lucky to get $3 out of $10 back on a deduction.
    
    I work from home (engineering), and this 'expense it'/'deduct it'
    response still grates; I just don't understand why my _employer_ can't
    supply me with the 'tools' I need, rather than _me_ having to supply
    them and then getting DEC/IRS/etc to cover my costs. They are _Digitals_
    costs of doing business, not mine. I wouldn't expense an "office" phone
    or supplies or whatever, why should I when that office is in my home?
    
    Dave

    Re: .60-
    
    	Around here, you can have a number listed in the directory under
    any name, not associated with the billing name. List it as A. Nonomous
    (Nonomous A. for the purist) and watch all the junk mail & free samples
    you begin receiving. Like a free unlisted number. A friend of mine has
    his single line listed this way (alias). When calls come in for the
    listed name he just says "they're not home"..click.
    
    Phil

    re: 64
    
    I thought as of 1993 the IRS changed their rules to say you had to do
    almost 100% of your business from home to qualify for a deduction.
    That aside my being in Digital Services won't allow me the deduction
    because I only get to use my office about 30% of the time.  The rest is
    going to customer sites or the office for parts.
    
    I am on the HOME program the only expense I have had so far is a little
    bit of added electricity.  

    Has any one run into zoning ordinace problems yet? Not all residential
    property is zoned for office/bus.

    We have tried in Greenbelt to get on the HOME program in my job, but
    they won't let us...something about control...

    re .69
    
    I was talking to the local L&I office here in my town and they said
    that they don't mess with anyone unless there are complaints.  Although
    I work from home, I do not have people come in and out of my office so
    there's no parking problems or anything.  My neighbors only noticed
    that I wasn't going out to work in the am....figured I got laid off or
    something.  I informed them that I am working, so they don't
    bother me during the day.  It's a hard concept for the retired folks to
    understand...you actually do your job from home???  8-)
    
    One of the rules in the HOME program document was that we are not to
    hold meetings or have customers visit our home office.  All that
    business is supposed to be conducted in a Digital site office. 
    
    cheryl
    
    
    

re: .72

> but I find the advantages far more than outweigh the benefits.

Bonnie, is this akin to: "Working at home--threat or menace?"

;-)			- paul

    re: .73
    
    Ooops.  
    
    Yes, I guess so.  
    
    I meant, "The benefits far outweigh the drawbacks." 
    
    --bonnie

    Re. The 'zoning' issue is a non-issue. You're going to be inside your
    house, using the phone and computer. It's not like you're opening a
    grocery store or an auto repair shop that will require lots of folks
    coming and going, lots of noise, parking problems, etc. 
    
    My neighbors used to remark about how late I leave the house most days.
    Then I explained to them that I'd been working since 7:30 or 8, on the
    computer reading mail, updating service calls, talking to customers,
    ordering parts, etc. I've been working this way for over 4 years and
    love it! I get more work done, deal with less office BS and most
    importantly... keep my customers happy!               
    
    Sure, I've had to buy my own stuff (or suffer through the pathetic VT
    terminal and 2400 baud modem that Digital offered). But I use the
    skills that I've learned from using my PC to help my customers solve
    problems with their PC's. I've got 2 PC's networked via thinwire
    ethernet, an HP LaserJet 4 and a couple of dot-matrix printers. The
    whole pile of stuff became tax deductible when my wife and I started
    our own business from home that requires the use of the computer
    equipment also. :-) (Where there's a will, there's a way!)
    
    What I've learned 'playing' with all this stuff also makes me more
    valuable in the job market, should Digital decide to send me packing.
    
    Harry (Multi-Vendor Customer Services) typing from HOME before hitting
    the road for yet another day of making happy customers. :-)
    

    RE: .65 by vmsnet::m_maciolek
    
    	The issue of the telephones is Digital is asking me to lie to the
    Telphone company (morals). We are all required to answer the phone
    "Good Morning Digital Equipment Corp Don Speaking" (this is a directive
    from Robert Palmer) ie a business line!
    
    	As I have stated in reply .53 I will have to purchase a RIDER to
    have my home covered for doing business at home.  As stated in past
    replys you can only recoup approx 33% of you expenses by a TAX
    DEDUCTION.
    
    	All in all I would love work at home but without any addtional
    expenses/liability incured by my family for doing business for Digital! 
    I live only 6 miles from my current office and there is no managment at
    the office and we have 20 employees in a 1300 square foot  building. 
    So as you can see there is NO Management NO BS and we all work together
    as a TEAM.  I just want Digital to come inline with the industry with
    what the other vendors are providing to there employees for there HOME
    office plans. It just looks that this is just another way that Digital
    is going to nickel and dime us to death!
    
    
    
    	

>    
>    One of the rules in the HOME program document was that we are not to
>    hold meetings or have customers visit our home office.  

I could probably see the customer side, but why no meetings?  Seems Digital
is telling you how to use YOUR property.  

PS.  I certainly am NOT proposing to have large meetings in people's homes...
     That's what Tupperware parties are for :-).

    .72
    
    I think you're in need of some professional tax advice and that you are
    not qualified to give tax advice so incorrect.

    re: Note 3358.68 by GLDOA::POMEROY
    
    I believe the IRS did (at least) 2 major things in 1993.  They
    scrutinized "Business Use of the Home" and they cracked down on people
    who said "they rent their house out" (because it's un-sellable in this
    current market).
    
    If I'm not mistaken, the flow chart to take the deduction for using the 
    "Business Use of the Home" form asks if you even have a desk "somewhere
    other than your home".  If not, how much work is done from your home 
    office?  I believe the threashold is 80% to claim the home office.
    
    If you only use your home office 30% of the time, you may not be able
    to take a deduction on the "BUotH" form, but if you keep your reciepts
    for any out of pocket expenses, you put all that stuff on either
    schedule A (non-reimbursed business expenses) or a form 2106.
    
    If you wanted to be bold, you could probably take your 30% usage of
    the home and put it on the Schedule A.
    Is it a non-reimbursed business expense?  Yes.
    Do you have reciepts and documentation?  Yes.
    
    MadMike
                                                          

    It seems like the employee is gaining something (ease of access to
    office), but giving up a significant amount (higher utilities, longer
    hours because of ease of access to office, less interaction with peers,
    reduced team building, etc) to be on this program.  I believe I read
    that the company says it has or will save $6,000,000 by reducing
    facilities - could it be that this has just been shifted to the
    employee's shoulders in added costs?
    
    I've done occasional days at home when the weather here in MPO stunk,
    and its worked pretty well for doing software development.  BUT, for
    any long-term activity I'd have to have AT LEAST what I have in the
    office - 3100 (obsolete but I'm too low in the pecking order to get one
    of the Alpha's), laser printer (ln03, so also obsolete but same as
    above), 19" monitors, manuals, etc.  Also, there'd have to be some
    high-speed method of getting files from the office/customer machines to
    the printer, local machine, etc.  9600 isn't going to do it...
    
    And, if I'm at home my heating/cooling costs go up SIGNIFICANTLY in the
    winter OR summer since normally the thermostat automatically adjusts
    the temp during the day to save money (keeping it at 75 instead of 85
    in the summer or 70 instead of 58 in the winter costs BIG money).  And,
    if I'm running a bunch of additional equipment, there HAS to be a cost
    for space and power.  I don't think the employee should have to eat the
    additional costs to save the company money...  and "tax deduction"
    doesn't even COME CLOSE to covering the cost.
    
    I think the IDEA is fine, but for once the implementation should be
    MUTUALLY beneficial, not just one-sided as so many of the recent
    "changes" have been...

Re: ..66

Good point.  In fact, if your marginal tax rate is 28%, deductability only
removes 28 cents on the doollar.

BUT...If Digital reimburses you, and it's NOT tax deductable, then technically
you're supposed to report that reimbursement as INCOME to the IRS, and pay TAX.

Thus if Digital only reimbursed you for the full value of the expense, and 
you have to include it as income, you're still not even with the game.

There are two ways you can be "even with the game":

1)  Digital reimburses you for the expense, but you don't include it as income.
    This is what happens, say, when you travel for digital, and digital 
    reimburses you for your hotel bill.

2)  Digital reimburses you for the expense, you report digital's reimbursement
    as income, and offset that with the deductible expense.  I'm not sure what
    cases should be handles this way, but it's fair.

A third alternative leaves you even with the game, but forces Digital to pay
extra money. 

3)  Digital reimburses you for the expense, plus an extra amount called a
    "tax adder".  You report the reimbursement as income without deducting
    it, and pay extra tax, but the "Tax adder" makes you even with the game.
    OK for you, but bad for digital.  I heard of one case of moving expenses
    that was handled this way (but that was back in 1978.  Things are different,
    now.)

Dave

Re: .72

Beg to differ.  I'm pretty sure that THERE MUST BE WALLS, or at least curtains,
delineating the boundary between the business space and the home space.

Everyone:  Don't let me guess for you; I've been wrong before.  Don't let
Bonnie guess for you, either.  Find out from the tax publicvations, or from
a PAID tax preparer.

Dave

    I'm looking at the tax code now.  
    
    If you meet certain criteria, you COULD file a form 8829 (Expenses
    for Business Use of the Home).  You may also have to file a Schedule
    C as well (P/L from business).  This may not be the way to go. 
    
    Most HOME folks will want to file only on the 2106 and Schedule A.
                                                           
    Personally, I don't screw around with depriciating anything.  I expense
    everything.  Since work tells me I must show up once a week in the
    office, I expense my mileage now too, at .29cents/mile.  Gee, thanks. :^)
    
    This could wind up "penalizing" folks who don't itemize deductions
    to some degree.  Then it comes down to cost/benefit of working from
    home.  For me pursonally, I like this deal because of the convinience
    to me, NOT for the tax break.  I'll take that too though.
    
    MadMike

Let's clear up one thing:

	Digital is NOT forcing you to lie to the phone company!  

	If you feel like telling them that it's going to be used for business,
go ahead!  What Digital is saying when you ask for a residential phone is a CLASS
of SERVICE, not a limit on intended use.

	The days when it was somehow or another immoral to use your telephone
in any way you want went down the tubes with the AT&T monopoly.  We ain't 
dealing with St. Peter here, we're dealing with a business that sells you
a service, and then you do what you want with it.

I'm all for ethics in business, but let's let our ethics be based on the real
truth, not some sort of self-effacing anti-commercial attitude!

Dave

    I do not believe REIMBURSEMENT has *****EEEEEVVVVVEEEERRRR****** been 
    considered income.  It is **NOT**!! it is just that. Money you used
    on behalf of your company, and they are just giving it back to you.
    
    Do you claim your travel expenses as income?  If you are, you have
    ripped yourself!  Same thing for the HOME program expenses!
    
    I have worked on the HOME program for 3 years now and I love it!
    
    Mike A.
    

    There are nine people US-wide who do the same job as I do.  Of the
    nine, four work from home, and enjoy it very much.  My cube neighbor,
    also best buddy, has just started working from home this summer.  She
    is also enjoying it very much.  She finds it extremely productive and a
    lot less hassle for a working mommy.  I find that my
    home-worker counterparts are, generally, less impacted by the low
    morale in the office.  This is probably because they are not faced with 
    almost daily resignations and/or TFSOs, dwindling office supplies,
    and the poor attitude of their peers and management.
    
    I think that, tax hassles aside, there are great benefits for both the
    employee and for Digital.  The company gets to save mega-bucks on
    office overhead, and receives a more positive, hard-working employee. 
    The employee, on the other hand, may spend some big bucks on setting up
    an office and maintaining it, but gets, in return, limited commuting
    time/wear/tear, saves money on wardrobe, and can more easily make those
    work/family trade-offs, like taking part of an afternoon off to take
    the kid to the doctor or see a school recital, and make up the time
    after supper.  And, of course, it is great for your city/town, because
    it is two less car trips per day.
    
    I've never found the idea of working at home particularly attractive
    before; I like being "in the thick" of things, enjoy the visibility to
    mangement, etc., and like to make office friends.  But, with the
    dwindling workforce here and the increasingly low morale, working at
    home is starting to look a lot better!  And, hey, phone/data/supply
    problems at home don't seem like such a big deal -- after all, I've got
    those in the office now, too!  My only stumbling blocks are (1) no
    private space for an office in my house, and (2) this area only has
    2400 baud modems to dial in to (UGH!!!)
    
    (and I never got BP's directive, so I just answer my phone "Good
    Morning, this is Marla".
    
    My 76 cents worth...
    
    M.
    

    re: Note 3358.76 by GLDOA::LONGAN
    
    > The issue of the telephones is Digital is asking me to lie to the
    > Telphone company (morals). We are all required to answer the phone
    > "Good Morning Digital Equipment Corp Don Speaking"
    
    You're entitled to your opinion, but I think the word LIE is rather
    drastic in this case.  It's your phone. Period.  How I answer my
    phone is of no concern to either the phone company OR the IRS (or
    FBI, BATF...)
    
    re: .66 by CSOA1::LENNIG
    
    > A tax-deduction does not fully offset the cost; only a tax credit does
    
    I'll buy that.  It can be seen as throwing good money after bad.  OR,
    you can approach it from the angle of the cost saving to get some of 
    your spent money back.  I don't tell the IRS that I save money on gas,
    cloths, food, wear & tear on my car...  So it comes down to costs vs.
    benefits.    

    Last year when I went on the HOME program I claimed a home office
    deduction on my taxes. Wouldn't you know it. Approximately 3am in 
    early June, my wife and I were startled out of bed as six IRS agents
    knocked down our front door and came barging into the bedroom demanding
    to see the Home Office.
    
    I pointed to the bedroom down the hall. They ran down there. Camera
    flashes were going off everywhere. They jumped on the PC to see if any 
    games were loaded. OOPs my son had been playing chess on Saturday.
    
    They found some clothes stored in a closet.OOPs. My personal checkbook
    was laying open on the desk. They said they had all the evidence they 
    needed and ran out the door.  Next week I got a letter disallowing a
    home deduction and requesting immediate payment of $450 of which $400
    was penalties and fees.  
    
    
    
    
    

    UNBELIEVABLE!

    .88
    
    I'm sure you filed a complaint with your local police dept.  You were
    assaulted, plain and simple.  Things would have been different if it
    occured around here.  The shoe would have been on the other foot.
    
    If I may ask, were the agents armed?  Did they have local police 
    escort?  Did they show identification prior to forecable entry/trespass?
    We're you able to telephone the authorities while the intruders were in
    your home.  

    They had a lot of GHal...stead of knockin' 8}

    I 'd hesitate to believe that the incident described happened the way
    the author described it if it happened at all.

    C'mon Gary fess up... how much, if any, of your story is true?
    
    Interesting reading, though it is.

    Having a checkbok on your desk is a STUPID test for personal/
    business.  I use my checkbook to pay my business expenses.
    Having games on my computers is also not a test for personal/
    business.  How many people have/play games at the office? I 
    do occasionally, at break time, lunch etc...  Could the clothes
    in the closet be used/worn during business hours.  Their arguments
    are ludicrous and if challenged would be "shot down"!
    
    Mike A.
    

    re: .82 re: my own .72
    
    No, definitely don't let Bonnie guess for you!  I guess "I think" isn't
    a strong enough disclaimer any more...I "think" what I said is what
    applied to my situation.  I wouldn't begin to guess if it applies to
    anybody else.  See a tax professional and read the official IRS
    publications yourself. 
    
    Even if the IRS person who gave me this info was 100% right (and I've
    seen data indicating that more than half the IRS answers are wrong)
    about my own situation, there's no telling whether it applies to
    anybody else.  There are literally dozens of factors, including what's
    a "customary" expense for your profession, what's "reasonable" in the
    circumstances, and whether your employer requires it.  
    
    The person I talked to didn't mention walls or dividers, but she really
    emphasized the absolutely-no-other-use part that .88 fell afoul of. 
    She said I couldn't even call out for pizza unless I was going to eat
    it in the business office while working.  I wouldn't be surprised if
    it's one of those situations where technically something [in this case
    a divider] isn't required, but if you don't have it, it's awfully hard
    to prove that the space isn't shared by family. 
    
    Another factor that applies in some cases is whether it's for your
    convenience or for the convenience of your employer.  Since I'm
    self-employed I didn't follow up on that one at all, but the rules used
    to be less stringent for situations where it was your employer's
    convenience.  
    
    Also, many business expenses can be deducted in more than one place. 
    If a particular expense doesn't qualify for "business use of the home"
    it might be an unremibursed business expense on schedule A, for
    instance.  It's worth asking your tax adviser. 
    
    --bonnie

    I believe that what .88 describes can happen if the IRS determines that
    there may be criminal activity.  I do not believe it is done in the
    course of a normal audit.
    
    Mark

    re .77
    
    I think the rule about meetings has to do mostly with customer
    meetings.  If I need to meet with a fellow HOME worker over a
    particular issue, it makes no sense for both of us to drive 55 miles
    each way to meet.  I also have joined other locals for conference calls
    with up-north folks in their homes.
    
    Actually the problem is probably over insurance.  Digital never asked
    to see my homeowner's policy regarding liability.  If I was conducting
    business meetings here and didn't have the proper liability (pretty
    stupid) ...and something happened, someone could probably sue Digital.
    ...far fetched, but in this day of everybody sueing everybody, you
    can't be too careful.
    
    Also, they never asked to inspect my home so it could be really unsafe,
    I guess.  Several years back when I started having Girl Scout meetings
    at the house, the council came in and inspected!  
    
    One funny thing that happened when I was moving home:  I wanted to take
    my back chair home when I moved.  I was told I couldn't (even with a
    property pass).  When I questioned it, I was told "you may fall off
    your chair and sue Digital".  Pretty silly, since I learned how to use
    a chair when I was about 2...and at home I know where the stepladder is
    if I need to reach something high!    
    
    Cheryl
    
                                                      

    .88 criminal activity
    
    maybe they're an OofE employee working at H.O.M.E.  :-))

    It appears that the HOME program impacts those that have full-time
    families at home.  By requiring the family to "keep quiet" while 
    the door is closed tends to restrict what can be done in the normal
    household worktime.  Does this family have to do the normal chores
    after 5 PM?  Does this family have to wait until after 5 PM to play?
    

    justme....jacqui

    re: Mike W's note about not believing a computer game would disqualify
    you (sorry, I lost the number)
    
    This is explicitly stated in the IRS publications -- a computer used
    for business can't have any games on it at all.  Technically, you're
    supposed to even remove the demo games that come with MS-Windows.  
    
    re: .99
    
    >>> By requiring the family to "keep quiet" while  the door is closed
    >>> tends to restrict what can be done in the normal household worktime. 
    >>> Does this family have to do the normal chores after 5 PM?  Does this
    >>> family have to wait until after 5 PM to play?
    
    This is basically why I decided not to even try to qualify for any of
    the IRS deductions.  It's too big a hardship on the family.  The kids
    can play games on my computer when I'm not using it, they can sit in
    the chair and talk to me, they can use the phone in my office, they can
    interrupt me for emergencies, permission to visit friends, and requests
    for lunch.  It did not take me 
    
    And even with all the utilities, computer expenses, and all the rest,
    and without a tax deduction,  it's cheaper than day care.  
    
    --bonnie

    re:  <<< Note 3358.81 by BABAGI::CRESSEY >>>

>3)  Digital reimburses you for the expense, plus an extra amount called a
>    "tax adder".  You report the reimbursement as income without deducting
>    it, and pay extra tax, but the "Tax adder" makes you even with the game.
>    OK for you, but bad for digital.  I heard of one case of moving expenses
>    that was handled this way (but that was back in 1978.  Things are different,
>    now.)
    
    How about Digital _pays_for_ the expense??? Why shouldn't the phone
    lines be billed direct to Digital, for example? Why, if the company
    is going to save so much money from closing offices and having people
    work from there homes (assuming they have the extra space to do so),
    shouldn't a basic stipend be given out to cover the employees costs?
    
    If I were on Plan B (use of personal car for Digital business) [I'm
    not] I would get a stipend; why shouldn't "use of personal residence
    for Digital business" be similarly covered. How many folk _planned_
    the rental/purchase of their residence (money from their salary) to
    accomodate the need for home office space?
    
    IMO, the main reason the company is getting away with the current
    approach is due to the precedence established by folk like myself
    (sorry) who choose and like to work this way, and are willing to
    sacrifice/accept the costs associated with it. I always intended
    to set aside a portion of my residence as a "home office", so there
    was little personal/family/financial impact from doing so. Similary,
    the cost of the second phone line ($20/mo) _I_ am bearing, mainly 
    because I hate the administrivia (and save more than that on gas).
    
    However, the current trend of flat out closing offices and _forcing_
    people to set up home offices is an entirely differant matter...
    
    Dave

    Re .100:
    
    > This is explicitly stated in the IRS publications -- a computer used
    > for business can't have any games on it at all.
    
    That must make it very difficult for Sierra, Nintendo, Legend, and
    other software game companies to do business.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    Does this mean that any Digital PC on Digital property that has games
    on it cannot be depreciated?

    .103
    Where is the Office of Ethics when you need it?
    

    re: .102
    
    *HOME* business.
    
    --bonnie

    I hate to admit it but ...

    When I was in college, the local IRS office particpated in the 
    college's co-operative education (work/study) program. I worked for the
    IRS in their Intelligence Division for three or four quarters while
    going to school. (HAH! Talk about an oxymoron:  IRS Intelligence
    Division!) Anyway ...
 
    From the experience I had there I learned a few things about how the
    IRS works. It has been so long that a lot of it has undoubtedly changed
    significantly, but some things remain the same.

    A significant portion of tax law (some would say ALL of it) is not
    black and white -- it's grey and subject to interpretation. If you are
    ever audited for violation of the tax laws, the IRS will interpret  the
    laws to their advantage. Your tax attorney will interpret them to  your
    advantage. Then the fun begins. If the IRS believes you are just being
    aggressive with your interpretation of the law, you get to play the
    "Civil" game. The burden of proof is your responsibility ("Show us 
    your receipts for this 'Home Office Deduction' you claimed.")

    If they come across anything which is evidence that you:

    Lied  or  
    Willfully tried to defraud the government in some way (by hiding
    income or making up expenses to evade income taxes)

    then you get to play the "Criminal" game. The burden of the proof is on
    the IRS (this is what the Intelligence Division does) and they will
    launch an all out investigation of every transaction they can get their
    hands on that has your name on it if they decide your case is one they
    want to prosecute.

    As for BUotH triggering an audit. I can see how it would be
    a potential Red Flag that could be disastrous for the taxpayer
    with an "aggressive pencil".

    The rule I would follow is:  If you aren't trying to hose the IRS by 
    cheating on your taxes, keep good records and go ahead and claim the 
    BUotH if you think it'll make that much of a difference. You may end up 
    getting into a battle over how much of a deduction you and/or your CPA
    thinks you should take vs. what the IRS thinks is fair, but you won't
    get whacked toooooo bad if you don't get silly about it.

    If you have been hosing the IRS, DO NOT TAKE THIS DEDUCTION! Especially
    if you (or your spouse or both of you) are self-employed!!!

    Many a taxpayer in this situation has been fined big time (or even put 
    away) as the result of a BUotH audit. It's not the office audit that
    becomes the problem; 'specially if you've been tuckin' it to Uncle Sam
    pretty good. The home office turns out to be nothing. It is something
    else  the agent sees, hears, or stumbles over by visiting your home to
    see the  office:

	o  new cars in the driveway "Oooh nice Bimmer! This yours?"
		Later investigation reveals no car loans. You paid
		cash that wasn't reported. Uh oh.

	o  picture of an airplane on the wall "Nice plane! Is that
		yours? No kiddin' ... looks like Skyview Airport ... is it?"
		Agent goes to Skyview Airport and writes a subpeona 
		to the base operator for all your records. He looks
		through all the receipts for maintenance and repair. 
		Everytime you gas up the plane you pay cash. Hmmmmmmmm.

	o  pictures of you and the significant other in Hawaii,
	   Barbados, Cancun, Germany ... "Wow you guys get around
	   don't you? Say, I'm takin' a trip ... who's your travel
	   agent?"
		IRS Agent visits your travel agent and finds out the tickets
		are an annual "gift" in exchange for some work you
		do on the side for a friend who runs the agency. Ouch!

	o  any one of a number of other things they are trained
	   to notice

    IRS agents have a lot of power and can do some things that no other law
    enforcement officer can. For example, they do not have to go to a
    judge or anybody else to get a subpeona ... they open  their briefcase
    and write one. It's valid on their signature alone. This goes to some
    agents' heads. As a result, some of them can be real jerks! (The
    kind that JUST MIGHT bust into your house at 3am to see your office --
    although I never met one THAT bad!) 

    All of the people I worked with (who were career agents) were pretty
    human. They would listen to anybody's story (and I've heard a million 
    stories). If you deserved a break you got one. But they had very little 
    sympathy for people who lied to them and were trying to defraud the
    government. They could make you very sorry you did what you did. 

    Overall it was about 5% interesting or exciting work which occured at
    infrequent intervals in between the other 95% of boring, tedious work.
    I just couldn't make a career of it. Too bad ... the badge and the gun
    were pretty neat!

    /se

    

    > It appears that the HOME program impacts those that have full-time
    > families at home.  By requiring the family to "keep quiet" while
    > the door is closed tends to restrict what can be done in the normal
    
    I'm exaggerating.  I get up and walk upstairs.  I'm "going to work".
    If I leave my office to go to the can or something, and my boy sees
    me "Yippe!!! There's DaDdY!!!!"  It's understood that it's not
    playtime.  That part is difficult, because I don't want my son to get 
    vibes that I'm avoiding him to be mean.  My wife had a hard time
    understanding that at first too.  "can you run to the store to get
    whatever?"  No I can't.  Either wait for lunchtime, or until after
    5.
                                                        
    No big deal.

    re: .106
    
    Care to define "Taxpayer"?
    
    You offer good information.  100% proof that you (auditee) keep your
    mouth shut.  If I understand correctly, if the IRS disputes something
    it'll be specific.  They don't get to go fishing unless you mention
    you operate on a cash basis (example).  You can either prove their
    specific question wrong, or bend  over.  Most of the time if your legit, 
    it's easy to prove them wrong.  They usually begin by sending you a
    letter saying "we dispute this".
                               
    re: Never met an agent who was that aggressive. (from .106 again).
    Ya, because they're the ones pushing up daisys after visiting people
    like me.  I have a simple rule.  Ring my doorbell and act like a human.
    
    
    re: computer games, etc...
    
    I think Bonnie is wrong about the games on computers.  I'll bet back
    at my "real" site, there's more game s/w floating around than legit
    business stuff. (joking)
    
    Remember, tax accountants (sorry Ron) get paid to do things.  Things 
    that you can do (if you know where to look, and how to read and think).
    They are not always right, and they tend to err on the side of caution.
    
    Example:
    Does this computer have a game(s) on it?  Yes.  (so what)
    Is this computer used for business?  Yes.
    
    Code says: If computer is used for business it's deductable.
    Base upon the above, is the computer deductable?  Yes. 
                              

>    Example:
>    Does this computer have a game(s) on it?  Yes.  (so what)
>    Is this computer used for business?  Yes.
>    
>    Code says: If computer is used for business it's deductable.
>    Base upon the above, is the computer deductable?  Yes. 
                              
	As in "what %age of the time was this computer used for business ?"

    Re:  .88
    
    That happened to me too.  They broke into my house a little later,
    abour 4:15am.  I guess that's because I relocated to Australia a few
    years ago.
    
    
    It's true, honest ;-)
    
    Seriousness aside, how does the HOME program deal with information
    security?  A few years ago, when I was still in Chicago, there was a
    big campaign to have everything locked up when not in use.  This 
    included doco, terminals, notes, everything.  They even went to the
    expense of providing lockable storage for those of us who didn't have
    any.
    
    Do your kids have to get a visitor's badge to come into 'the office'
    and ask for help tying their shoe?  ;-)
                                         ^
                                         |
                                         +-- only partial this time.

>    Seriousness aside, how does the HOME program deal with information
>    security?  A few years ago, when I was still in Chicago, there was a

Stick your head in somebody's house and its likely to get blowed off...

Scott

    Re: .106-
    
    >IRS agents have a lot of power and can do some things that no other law
    >enforcement officer can....
    
    	With no constitutional basis for their very existance.
    
    Phil

    RE:  108
    
    > Care to define "taxpayer"
    
    Sure ... this is the word the IRS uses to describe all of humanity.
    Every breathing soul is a potential "taxpayer". Whether you pay taxes
    or not is immaterial.
    
    > If the IRS disputes something it'll be specific ... important to keep
    your mouth shut ...
    
    Yes, well said. What happens is the IRS has people who sit all day and
    audit returns (more and more, computers are being used to decide what
    returns should be pulled for an audit ... there are a series of things
    that, if outside certain boundaries will cause a "trigger" to go off
    and the return pops out for audit. Anyway, a human being takes over at
    this point.
    
    One of the first things they may do is pull returns going back 'n'
    years to see if there are inconsistencies. They then decide whether or
    not to push a "civil" matter. This is when you get one of those dreaded
    letters that starts with the word:  "GREETINGS"  (Any letter that
    starts with that is trouble).  Following this is usually some very
    specific thing they want proof of, like; "Please bring all your
    receipts and records relative to your 19xx tax return for office
    supplies."
    
    You only have to show up with all your receipts for office supplies.
    That's it. The agent can ask you any questions they want about your
    return, but you only have to bring the records they asked for.
    
    Then, as you so aptly put it, try to say as little as possible because
    a good auditor will try to do a little fishing while you're sitting
    there. Monosyllable "yeses" and "nos" are ideal. 
    
    If they already suspect that there is something wrong, they will already
    know what areas look "funny" and will have a few questions in their
    pocket to pull out at a very appropriate moment. I don't think going to
    one of these alone is a good idea. I would bring my CPA or tax
    attorney.
    
    The problem with the BUotH deduction is that the IRS may start with you
    bringing in receipts, etc. in their office, but invariably will want to
    see the office to verify that it is consistent with what you are
    deducting. THIS is what can start the problems as I said before.
    
    RE:  .112
    
    > With no constitutional basis for their very existance.
    
    So far as I know, you are absolutely correct. Amazing, ain't it?
    
    /se
    
    

    You don't have to let the IRS into your house, and once you do, that
    amounts to an agreement to allow them to actually search the whole
    house. And it doesn't matter what time they come ringing at the door --
    you can put them off by telling them they'll have to wait, right there
    if necessary, while you call your accountant, attorney or whoever. They
    like to show up at odd hours so you're not thinking straight and will
    do things like let them in and give that tacit approval.
    
    I've been audited by the IRS, and it consisted of a letter saying I
    hadn't filed taxes for our investment club. I sent back a letter
    quoting their own regulations about investment clubs and how things get
    filed that showed I was correct.  Never heard back from them.
    
    I also believe in taking every deduction to which I am entitled even if
    it's an audit trigger. As long as the deduction is legitimate and you
    have enough documentation to back it up, you should take it. And it's
    not unheard of to just write the IRS a note with your return explaining
    why you did something. I did that after TRA80 because I had an odd, but
    perfectly legal, deduction relating to how I deducted mortgage interest.
    If the IRS has a question on something and you've already answered it
    by sending supporting documentation with your return, that may be
    sufficient for them.
    
    And a home office has some pretty stringent criteria. For instance, I
    can't take a home office deduction for my husband who is self-employed
    because he does most of his work at the job site. 

        re: .-1  Constitutional authority

    I heard someone comment about this.  Originally, the IRS had no
    constitutional authority, then in 19xx, Congress added an amendment. 
    Anyone with the facts?

    chg

>        <<< Note 3358.115 by WRAFLC::GILLEY "PCs drool, VAXes rule!" >>>
>                    -< I wouldn't file my return on that. >-
>
>        re: .-1  Constitutional authority
>
>    I heard someone comment about this.  Originally, the IRS had no
>    constitutional authority, then in 19xx, Congress added an amendment. 
>    Anyone with the facts?

Article I, section 8 of the US constitution begins with the phrase

  "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes..."

The article then lists about 16 other areas of authority and ends 
with the statement

  "To Make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
    Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this
    Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any
    Department or Officer thereof."

As originally ratified, the constitution did specifically exclude 
the possibility of an income tax.  After a couple of attempts to impose
income taxes were struck down in court during the 19th century,
the 16th amendment was added:

   "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from
    whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several
    States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

That the tax code is written into law by Congress and executed by offices
created by Congress and the executive branch is clearly in line with the
constitution, as amended.

Now this is not to say that the >practices< of the IRS are entirely
above board and fully justified constitutionally, but to say that
the agency "has no constitutional authority for its very existence"
is preposterous.

- tom]

    re: Note 3358.116 by REGENT::POWERS
    
    The 16th Amendment wasn't ratified according to the Constitutions rules.  
    While you're checking that out, find the origonal 13th amendment
    (in any state statute book prior to the civil war).  It isn't about
    slavery, and the amendment mentioned in the pre-1860 law books was
    never repealed.  This discussion belongs elsewhere.
                     

    Re .105:
    
    > *HOME* business.
    
    You don't think there are any game programmers who work at home?
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    re: .115
    
    You're refering to the 16th amendment (1913), which allows the fed to
    Tax people within its jurisdiction.  If you look carefully at 
    USC 26 tax section (which is non positive law BTW) it specifically 
    defines who a taxpayer is.  You'd be surprised that you most likely
    AREN'T, but you Volunteer.  After all, subjecting yourself to the IRS is 
    voluntary not optional.  It says so in the tax guide.
    
    
    

    After talking to the IRS people again yesterday, I deleted .72 -- the
    information was pretty much correct for my situation, but my situation
    isn't the same as that of most of the people in this string.  So rather
    than risk confusing an already complicated situation, or try to explain
    it, I just took it out.  
    
    I repeat, if you've got any intention of working at home and taking tax
    deductions for it, talk to a tax attorney or accountant -- maybe even
    talk to more than one and compare their advice.  (Second opinions and
    all.)  Your situation may not be what it appears at first, and it
    almost certainly won't be the same as your neighbor's or the person in
    the next office.  
    
    Re: a few back -- Eric, I asked them about video game programmers
    working at home.  Too bad I didn't tape it -- it would have been a
    shoo-in for "Funniest Home Audios."  
    
    IRS person:  We would generally presume that presence of a video game
    on the computer system indicated non-business use of that computer.
    
    Me:  Don't you play video games during your coffee break? 
    
    IRS:  I don't have a computer, and it would violate regulations.
    
    Me:  Oh.  But what if you were writing the program to sell.
    
    IRS:  You mean the video game program?
    
    Me:  Yes.
    
    IRS:  Do people do that?  I thought they all came from Japan.
    
    Me:  Well, somebody had to write them. 
    
    IRS:  Aren't they in those little cartridges?
    
    Me (opting for simplicity):  Yes, but somebody had to write them and put them in the
    cartridges.  If I was writing a video game that I intended to sell,
    wouldn't that be a business use?
    
    IRS: Well, um -- er, um.  It sounds as though it would have to be.  But
    no other games.  Other games would violate the regulation.
    
    Me:  But I have to research the other games on the market.  
    
    IRS:  (long pause.)  It is possible.  But you're certainly going to be
    audited.  
    
    So I conclude that some of the less sophisticated IRS agents are
    probably using this video-game rule, which is supposed to be only one
    of many possible indications of your business status, as a sort of
    litmus test.  
    
    --bonnie

    Keep in mind that phone calls into the IRS are candidates for being
    monitored by the agents' superiors. No agent in their right mind
    would ever admit over the phone to playing games (other than with
    your financial future)...

Re: .-2

Thanks for clarifying things for other people, and for deleting what might
be a confusing message.  I thoroughly agree with the advice to consult with
a tax accountant, or other expert.
                            --------------

I thought I'd throw in another 2 cents worth:

First, treating phone calls as a business expense is not necessarily completely
tied to taking the home office deductions.  Thus, if you have a home phone
on which you conduct business, you might be able to deduct the additional
cost of those business calls (assuming they're toll calls) even if you
can't or choose not to take the home office deduction.  Note that you might
end up having to pay the monthly phone bill out of taxable income, even if
you do deduct the cost of the calls.

Second, most of us who have taken the home office deduction in the past
have been self employed.  (Do I remember correctly that you, Bonnie, are
self employed?).  Even the doctor in the famous Salomon case was self
employed, not an employee of the hospital where he performed sugery.
Digital, and other companies embarked on a work at home
program for their employees are creating a new category of home workers:
ones that are *not* self employed.  This might have a considerable effect,
either advantageous or not for making the case that the home office is necessary.

While I understand Digital's reticence to advise its employees on tax matters,
I think it behooves Digital, as part of its work at home plan, to provide the
necessary paperwork to the affected employees so that they can prove to the
IRS that working at home is part of their terms of employment, or whatever
else may be both true and useful in helping employees avoid paying
uncalled for taxes.

Dave

    If I'm not mistaken, one of the "benefits" to digital for us working
    from home is the federal government is fixing up a mandate they're
    going to drop on large corparations which penalizes companies which
    don't institute telecommuting programs.  Something about traffic,
    pollution and spotted owls.
    
    Companys will be expected to have a %age of their employees working
    from home or they'll get fined (rather heavily from what I saw) every
    day their in violation.
    

RE: .123

	Yup, something is coming down the pike, probably via the
	Clean Air Act. Personally, I think whatever is happening is
	quite interesting. It's opening up new ways to do things and
	will accelerate the telecom companies in providing decent
	high-speed access to the homes. (ie: ISDN)

							mike

re: digital providing paper work.

I got some paperwork but the effect was the reverse: DON'T USE THIS FOR TAXES!
Sooner or later somebody will wake-up and smell the freshly brewed coffee...

    
    REF .120
    
           I have been writing shareware from my home since 1987; and yes
    I have be audited but I have had no problems with passing the test.
    It appears you just want to play games with the IRS (have fun)--pun
    intended--] you cann't win.  I have a phone dedicated to the business
    I have a business license and I keep records, Yes, the book keeping
    program I wrote I use.  All you need to state is you write software
    code, they donot really care what the code does.
    
    bob cansler

    I plan on working from home soon... well, at least some of the time. 
    For me, the complexity and risk of having to take the time to spend in
    an audit is just not worth the "benefit" of a mediocre tax benefit.  
    
    I'll take what expenses I can clearly substantiate, and when I file my
    return, I'll send in supporting docs.  I've done that before and I have
    NEVER been audited (well, except for that time back in the early
    sixties, when I was married to the wicked witch of the west).
    
    t.

    re: .122
    
    Yes, I'm self-employed, and yes, that was one of the big variables. 
    Well, actually, as far as the IRS is concerned, I'm not self-employed
    this year.  There's a double set of criteria that apply in this
    situation -- the first is a rather complex analysis of whether I'm
    really an independent contractor or an employee of the company or
    agency I'm going through.  If I'm a contractor, the rules that
    determine what qualifies as a deductible business expense change.  
    
    What it essentially does is allow a great many of the business expenses
    (such as the phone calls you mention and the cost of paper and other
    supplies, etc.) to be deducted even though the office itself might not
    qualify as a legitimate home office.  But what is a qualified expense
    varies according to your business and your profession.  
    
    This year I don't qualify as self-employed because I'm considered to
    work through the agency.  It's a lot simpler for me and I think I may
    continue this way. . . even though the tax bite is a little higher. 
    
    --bonnie
    
    p.s. Oh, and several kinds of business have entirely separate rules for
    what's deductible and how it's deducted.  Farming, medical and other
    professional offices, businesses that deal in import/export -- I don't
    know how many others.  It's crazy.

    There is one other criteria the IRS uses for a home office deduction if
    you are employed by a company like Digital and are working from home.
    If it is for the convenience of the _employer_ then you are allowed to
    take the home deduction. I don't know enough about the HOME program,
    but if Digital is requiring that you work at home, then you meet the
    criteria.  There's a publication that covers all of this, but I don't
    happen to have it handy.  Also, the IRS has an entire package they'll
    send you if you are self-employed that has a lot of forms and
    information in it.
    
    I have found that as long as you keep good, accurate records, you
    should be able to justify all of your deductions to the satisfaction of
    the IRS.  And part of that battle is just knowing what it is they want
    to see for substantiation of a deduction, and typically that
    information is listed in their publications as well as in some of the
    regulations. And you can always ask them for a written opinion, which
    is binding on them, if you really want to know about a deduction before
    you take it.

    re: .120
    
    The IRS "people" and IRS "agents" should not be mixed up.  Should one
    call the 800 number, you reach these "people", those of whom have
    no legal binding to the IRS should they give you inaccurate
    information.  My guess is this is whom .120 spoke with--especially from
    the comical exchange in conversation.  An "agent" would have been much
    more convincing with the opinion.
    
    Now an "agent" would be the ones that come out to audit (investigate
    your claims/lies--guilty til proven innocent).  They would know all of
    the leagal-ease as it applied to your case, but would not tell you
    immediately that "you broke the law" without even further deliberation
    with the true "experts" (federal lawyers).
    
    I think most people would agree that an audit by the IRS is, initially,
    an intimidating proposal.  But 80%+ of those would also agree that "it
    wasn't as bad as I thought it would be".
    
    As one noter mentioned a couple back, a written opinion would be more
    binding PRIOR to your taking the deduction.  But if you've had that
    requested before, be prepared to file for an extension as it'll
    typically take a minimum of 3 weeks (typically 6 to 8) to get it in
    writing.
    
    Been there...

This article points out some other interesting aspects of this topic
=====================================================================
    {Sue Shellenbarger, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal via 
  Jeffrey Harrow's "The Rapidly Changing Face of Computing" for 8/21/94}

 As companies race to move employees into "virtual offices," they're running
into some very concrete problems.

  Hoping for lower costs and higher productivity, more employers are slashing
office space and handing employees laptop computers, portable phones and
beepers, with orders to work instead from their cars, their homes or their
customers' offices. This approach, once limited to such vendors of high-tech
office gadgetry as AT&T Corp. and International Business Machines Corp., has
now won over General Electric Co., Xerox Corp., advertising agency Chiat/Day
and dozens of others, forcing hundreds of thousands of workers into what GE
labels "the office of the now."

  But as the trend deepens from a trickle to a tidal wave, people problems are
surfacing. Employers are finding that, unlike the voluntary part-time
telecommuting programs of the past, plans forcing whole divisions into mobile
offices can cause morale problems -- and may even provoke valued employees to
quit. Surrounded day and night by the high-tech tools of their trade, many
workers burn out. And while short-term savings are significant, no one knows
how the mobile office will affect long-term productivity.

  "We're on the verge of what is perhaps the most radical redefinition of the
workplace since the Industrial Revolution, with some tremendous benefits
involved," says Gil Gordon, a Monmouth Junction, N.J., management consultant
and a longtime proponent of flexible work arrangements. "Yet the early signs
are that corporations are as likely as not to mess this up."

  As Mr. Gordon points out, some of the benefits are indeed impressive. Compaq
Computer Corp., based in Houston, partly credits moving its sales force into
home offices for sharply reducing its sales and administrative expenses, to
12% of revenue from 22%. Similarly, basing 300 sales and customer-service
people in their homes enabled Perkin-Elmer Corp., a Norwalk, Conn., maker of
scientific equipment, to close some 35 branch offices.

  Moreover, it's generally agreed that eliminating a worker's daily commute
can raise output. AT&T says mobile offices have increased by 15% to 20% the
time its salespeople spend with customers. At IBM, meetings among mobile
workers tend to be shorter. The 15-minute chat before getting to the agenda is
history, says John F. Frank, IBM's mobile-office project manager in the
Midwest, where 75% of about 3,000 workers are going mobile.

  Despite these advantages, however, the mobile office forces a profound
change in the way people work. And warning signals about some potentially
disruptive effects are starting to appear.

  For many employees, being forced to work from home is subtly demoralizing.
Even though most like the flexibility of a mobile office, "everybody feels
that having an office in their home is kind of a sacrifice for the company,"
says one service representative for an East Coast manufacturer who was asked
to move into a home office full time a month ago.

  Wayne Wolfinger, a former Perkin-Elmer service representative in Fairbanks,
Alaska, grew frustrated when the company refused to compensate him for the
cost -- about $120 a month -- of setting up a home office and storing the
parts he wanted to keep there. He left the company in December 1993 as a
result of the dispute.

  "It was as if they were saying, `We need to save money, so we'll make our
employees pay our bills,'" Mr. Wolfinger says. Noting that his office required
not only space in his house but also extra insurance, he adds, "If this is the
trend, I'm looking at a cut in pay that's going to last forever."

  Perkin-Elmer says a large majority of its mobile employees like the change
and feel more productive because of it. Though Mr. Wolfinger was a valuable
worker and management would like to have kept him, the company didn't feel it
could make exceptions to its policy, says Bob Bavis, Perkin-Elmer's director
of North American sales and service. Mr. Bavis also notes that Mr. Wolfinger
is the only employee of the 300 affected who had such problems.

  Another concern about virtual offices, managers say, is that some aspects of
mobile employees' lifestyles are counterproductive. Karen D. Walker, Compaq's
vice president, operating services, worries about getting her staff to stop
sending faxes in the middle of the night. "People are now thinking and working
on the job 12 to 18 hours a day," she says, adding that she tries to set an
example by limiting her own hours.

  When Ms. Walker travels on business and finds employees' voice mail on the
phone in her hotel room at 11 p.m., she explains, "I send them an e-mail that
says, `Shouldn't you be doing something else at this hour?'" She has also had
to ask two employees in the past three months to cut their hours. "Your mind,"
she told them, "has to have some downtime."

  One reason for such problems, consultants say, is that managers' skills
haven't kept pace with the trend. "Many employees have only a vague sense of
what is expected of them," says Paul Rupert, manager of flexibility consulting
in Washington, D.C., for Rodgers & Associates. "As a result, they may be
working 90 hours a week and still feel like they're falling short." Some
companies, including Compaq, are modifying performance reviews to spell out
expectations more clearly.

  As for the long-term impact of mobile offices on productivity, that still
isn't clear. The service representative for the East Coast manufacturer sees
short-term real-estate savings masking other, harder-to-measure costs. For
example, he now has to do more routine chores himself, such as mailing parts
shipments -- a job that used to be handled more cheaply by clerks.

  Many companies "have focused too much on cutting costs without also asking
what it's doing to workplace productivity," says Prentice Knight III,
executive director of the Industrial Development Research Council, an
association of corporate real-estate executives that is studying the issue.

  Amid such concerns, many companies are approaching mobile offices in new
ways. Automatic Data Processing Inc., a computer-service provider in Roseland,
N.J., is testing mobile offices for 12 to 18 months in the hope of winning
grass-roots acceptance.

  Even AT&T -- which has advocated mobile offices since 1990 and now has some
8,000 mobile employees -- has stopped making the virtual office mandatory in
targeted divisions. "We want to bring the individual employee into the
decision-making process," says Martin Pospeshil, AT&T's manager, alternative
officing strategies. Though only "a very small percentage" of the company's
employees typically fail to adjust to mobile offices, he says, the company has
started screening mobile-office workers in advance to reduce chances of
failure. However, no one knows quite what to do about the people who don't
now, and probably never will, like the idea of mobile offices -- a group that
Franklin Becker, a Cornell University professor and the head of its
international workplace-studies program, says comprises 15% to 20% of
employees overall.

  These issues are certain to loom larger as demand for skilled workers
intensifies. "My hunch," says Mr. Gordon, the management consultant, "is that
there are legions of people out there who have dusted off their resumes, and
at the first sign that the economy is loosening up they're going to say: `I've
had it. You've taken advantage of me, and I'm out of here.'"

    re: .130
    
    Yes, I definitely talked to a "people".  
    
    They don't claim to be anything else, and they make it clear that while
    they do their best to be accurate, their info isn't binding.  
    
    --bonnie

    
    	Question:
    
    	How do group 'phone hunt numbers work when using the home as one's
    office?  Or does the requirement for hunt numbers preclude working from
    home?
    
    	I thinking of groups such as the one of which I am part - Pre-Sales
    Tech Support.
    
    				Malcolm.

    Group numbers for homeworkers are offered by some companies, for
    example Mercury in the UK.
    
    It's a service which means the members of the group do not have to be
    connected to the same exchange.
    
    So the answer is yes, depending on the service provider (PTT), the
    exchange equipment they have and their willingness to offer the
    service.

In my other life,  I'm a member of the ICCA (Independent Computer
Consultants Association).  I've been tasked to come up with  a list
of questions that might be answered in a conference on telecommuting,
if one is held.

Of course, an independent's questions about telecommuting are going to
be different from a Digital employee's, but there's bound to be some overlap.

Anyone care to contribute interesting questions?  

I can't promise answers, but if you think it's interesting, maybe others will,
too.

Keep in mind that any suitable questions will be used outside Digital.

Thanks and regards,
    Dave

    It's been months seince anyone entered anything in here and by now I'd
    say a significant amount of the Digital Equipment Corporation staff
    has been informed that they are being put on the work at home program.
    
    I can see good and bad to this.  
    
    There are certain groups who probably benefit more from it, but I am
    concerned about groups who do problem solving on a daily basis.  I am
    so used to just talking over the cube walls to a co-worker and being
    able to just stand up and walk 1 or 2 cubes over to conference about
    customer issues.
    
    I was working from home for about three months this year on a project
    and other than the cut-off of contact from my co-workers, it wasn't so
    bad.  I could get up and run to the post office, or whatever, then come
    back.
    
    I've always used my second bedroom as an office, so the space never
    mattered, and I got a rider on my insurance because I knew my normal
    policy didn't cover my DEC pc.  
    
    However, everyone I've talked to in the last week and a half, no matter
    what their job function:  sales, sales support, consulting, delivery,
    field service, Colorado Springs internal support, are being put on the
    work-at-home program.
    
    Who is going to be left?  Are managers going to be put on the
    work-at-home program?  Are we going to have to drive to their homes to
    have meetings and performance reviews?
    
    How are we going to keep inter-action and communication among employees
    who have that as a necessity in doing their jobs more effectively?
    
    And is this just another way for Digital to encourage attrition?  I
    mean if you think about it, while you are working at home, out of sight
    of your manager or anyone else, you can be setting up and going to
    plenty of job interviews...
    
    oh, sorry, did I let the cat out of the bag, so to speak?
    
    my .07 cents worth...
    

>    How are we going to keep inter-action and communication among employees
>    who have that as a necessity in doing their jobs more effectively?

Well, I just pick up the phone, dial 1-700-dtn and poof, i'm in touch
with the other people in my group, and then there's always email, which is
really about the same as "over the cube wall" - it's a mindset type thing.

Of course, I've been doing this "remote" stuff for almost 3 years now - the work
at home part didn't really change that aspect of things (except for a slower
datalink), from my perspective anyway.

>Are managers going to be put on the
>    work-at-home program?  Are we going to have to drive to their homes to
>    have meetings and performance reviews?

Actually, having management involved might be a good idea, for a number of
reasons.  On the other topic, I attend at least one meeting every week,
and I've had three performance reviews all done via telephone.  DIBS lines
are great for widespread tele conferences.  Plus, down the road (for us
semi-rural types, already available for the metro rats), all kinds of
neat information services coming out - got a flyer from MCI the other day
about "networked teleconferencing video" on my PC (or whatever they called it).

--Scott

I've been doing WAH for over a year and have never had a problem keeping
in touch.  The telephone and mail are my medium now instead of in person.
Environmentally it's great - Cats at my feet, Amy Grant on the CD, and
banana splits when the mood hits!


Liz

Our group has just recently starting playing with IRC - a *great* group
communications tool, whether you WAH or not.

Scott

What is IRC...

    Internet Relay Chat (said he, working from the context...)
    
    It's like VAXphone but runs over TCP/IP... Not that I've used either,
    but I believe that VAXphone is single-person-to-single-person, while
    IRC can be many-to-many.  Corrections/amplifications expected from the
    Internet crowd...
    

    This weekend when I was getting help from internal support, Greg
    Marshall was telling me that is what they use to communicate and he
    said it was terrific.
    
    I  had asked him how they could support customers without having their
    normal "support network" in place, i.e. they can go confer with someone
    else if the problem is beyond their immediate ability to fix...
    
    He said it was a very effective way of communicating.
    
    How and/or where do we get IRC?  What does it run on?  Where can I get
    more information on it?
    
    

    ljsrv2::internet_tools has info on IRC
    

Re ...   .138
>Well, I just pick up the phone, dial 1-700-dtn and poof, i'm in touch
>with the other people in my group, and then there's always email, which is
>really about the same as "over the cube wall" - it's a mindset type thing.

What is 1-700-dtn   ???
Will it save any money on toll calls etc. ?

Phil

	VAXphone can have many callers on at once. We were doing this
	stuff 10 years ago at Noters parties when we would have people
	on from Maynard (the party), Japan, France, England, etc.. all on
	at once.

	Amazing how the world is catching up.

							mike

               Tnx for the correction & justified brag, Mike...
    

    re: -2
    
    Yeah, too bad we don't do VAX phone anymore
    
    decommitted, unsupport, you  name it...
    
    it ain't there...
    
    *fud*
    

RE: .148

	It was still there as of OpenVMS/VAX 6.1. I don't recall hearing 
	that it was pulled. Last time that was tried, VMS got an uproar
	from the deaf community.

	If you have concrete facts to the otherwise, show your cards.

							mike

    
    
    welll most system managers either disable network connections or just
    deinstall it all together?
    
    they always mention security issues?
    
    I do remember it having a nice feature of showing who was currently
    logged on a remote computer
    
    
    BS

    Was phone updated to support clusters and cluster aliases? I don't
    think it was.

    Lisa

    Okay, log on to ROMEOS...and try typing ph
    and getting anything...
    I can't call anyone on node GLDOA::
    or JULIET::
    
    try phoning anyone in the company!
    
    If they aren't on your node
    forget it
    

                    <<< Note 3358.145 by DASPHB::PBAXTER >>>
                             -< 1-700-dtn   ???? >-

Re ...   .138
>Well, I just pick up the phone, dial 1-700-dtn and poof, i'm in touch
>with the other people in my group, and then there's always email, which is
>really about the same as "over the cube wall" - it's a mindset type thing.

>>What is 1-700-dtn   ???
>>Will it save any money on toll calls etc. ?

>>Phil


Part of the services that you can get while working in the H.O.M.E program is
the ability to dial 1-700-DTN. This is quite handy for calling within the
company. The service is offered through MCI which is Digital's long distance
carrier. From my home I can dial any DTN by using the 1-700 prefix.

-TomR-

Is this something you have to get approval for or is
it open to anybody? My group isn't part of the work
at home program yet but we do often work from home. It
would be handy to make DTN calls from home. liesl

Re .154

I don't know, but I'll bet if you contact your local telecom people, they can
tell you.  it's a special billing setup, so any and all long distance calls
are billed on the same bill, not just the 1-700 calls; which is mainly why it's
associated with WAH, since most of us WAH'ers have a phone line just for
"business."

It's cheaper by a few cents per minute then the MCI telphone card.

Of course, using this will preclude you from using normal 700 numbers on
your phone; which are all the rage these days, dontcha know (a permanent
phone number, regardless of where I live in the US, does have a certain appeal).

--Scott

    	VAXphone was never really updated to support clusters, but it
    probably does a better job of it than the TCP/IP equivalent since it
    picked up the cluster-wide extensions to $GETJPI at not much cost.
    
    	If you want to VAXphone someone on a remote cluster it is not too
    much trouble, so anyone who needs to has probably already found out how.

    MCI is only the longhaul carrier in the US.
    
    That leaves the rest of us at the mercy of our local PTT and 
    network service companies.

    re: .152
    
    I regularly carry on VAXPHONE conversations with colleagues in Hong
    Kong and Beijing. I am in Mass. It must just be SOME of the system
    managers are paranoid.
    
    Debbie
    

For those of you that don't want to search ::internet_tools IRC is sorta-kinda
like phone but you join a channel (#cd_cxo for example) and whatever you type
is seen by all others on the channel.  The first person to join a channel in 
effect creates that channel.  You can join mulitple channels.  You can also 
have private conversations with folks on your channel(s) if you so desire.  

As long as you know the channel you want you need not care who actually runs 
it, where its running from, etc.  It a very effective tool.

If you want more info, NOW you can check ::internet_tools.

    Thought I'd tack this query onto this string as being a reasonable
    place;
    
    How does one cope with MS-office files (.DOC, .XLS, .PPT) and .PS files
    sent as mail or A1 messages when working from home?
    
    The frequency of this sort of traffic is increasing very quickly and I
    would be interested how people are setting up home offices to cope with
    that.
    
    Axel

    Teamlinks is the answer! (At least for the .DOC, .XLS, &.PPT files).
    It's available on the net. 
    
    As far as the .PS files go, the only way I've been able to reliably
    print them out is by downloading the file using zmodem or kermit and
    then issueing a "copy <foo>.PS lpt1:" command, which normally prints
    out the Poscript document fine.
    
    Regards,
    
    Tom
    

    Re -.2
    
    A one-minute version...
    
    You get yourself a PC, install MS-office, TeamLinks (along with
    the Integration piece), setup your transport (SLIP/PPP connection
    would be nice), integrate your MS applications with TL, connect 
    to your ALL-IN-1 IOS server, read your mail, file your "foreign" 
    attachment (.DOC, .XLS,,,) to your local filecabinet or auto-launch 
    your MS application.
    
    dan
    

Or you walk into an office and copy them to floppies !

Alan

    yes - sneakernet - that's what I use now.  Hence the question.

    re:.161
    
    >>then issueing a "copy <foo>.PS lpt1:" command, which normally prints
    >>out the Poscript document fine.
    
    	This only works if you have a postscript printer connected to lpt1:
    	
    	else
    	
    	Get a copy of Ghostscript and Ghostview shareware. It can read
    	postscript files and view them in MS windows and also print them
    	to a number of non postscript printers. Check out notes file
    	HUMANE::IBMPC_SHAREWARE entires titled 'Ghost'. Current Ghostview
    	(windows interface) is V1.3 and Ghostscript (Postscript converter
    	DOS backend) is V3.33.
    
    	Teamlinks V2.5 went to SSB the end of July. Its the hot ticket for 
    	the reading/printing MS OFFICE emailed files to you in A1 or
    	Mailworks, you also need MS Office installed on your PC. Check out 
    	notes file abbott::WINDOWS_OFFICE notes 96, 97, and 98.

    You better have a *fast* machine if you want to run GhostView in *this*
    lifetime.  WOW is it ever slow!!!!!!!
    
    Brian
    

Sorry, I can't really help there - I'm biased, I have Easynet to my house. 
So, its easy for me.

But, look in the RANGER::WINDOWS95 notesfile - people have been doing 
things with WIN95 and PPP and it seems to work. Also, ACB seems to like 
TeamLinks (or vice versa) if its set up right, so look in 
ABBOTT::WINDOWS_OFFICE

Alan