Conference 7.286::digital

    
    HOLY SMOKERS BATMAN!!
    
    Will these calls be "re-routed" to Atlanta?
    
    djm
    P.S.  Tell Leslie M. "hello" for me.
    
    
    
    

Uh, that was the entire Remote Sales staff, folks.

-Andy

    The Remote Sales Organization is located in two of the CSC locations:
    Colorado Springs, Colorado and Atlanta, Georgia.  The ENTIRE Remote
    Sales Organization has been tapped and will be gone by December 11th. 
     
    These are some of the most senior technical folks in Digital and I am
    sure they will be missed.  By the way, the District Manager did
    everything possible to save all or some of his folks but to no avail.
    
    Val, at risk too...
    

    So where do customers and DECsalesreps go for help
    after 12/11?
    

    So does this mean the staff is being tapped on 12/7, or on 12/14?
    
    

    *Don't believe everything you read in Sales Update.....
    *Definitely don't believe what's in the S.O.C.; we've been trying to 
     get errors corrected for over 2 years.
    *WHY don't all those silly sales reps read info avail to them?
    
    
    Has anyone considered TIME?
    
    

    Thought this might be appropriate in these times....
    
    Time Magazine, November 30, 1992 p. 26
    
    CAN'T TRUST THAT DAY   
    
    Little wonder employees hate Mondays.  The risk of having a heart
    attack is 40% higher than on other days of the week,  German
    researchers reported to a New Orleans meeting of the American Heart
    Association.  Heading back to the office may severely increase mental
    and physical stress, scientists speculate.  Heart problems might also
    be triggered by heavy weekend drinking.   No explanation, though, as to
    why the second riskiest day for worker heart attacks is Thursday.  Too
    excited about Friday, perhaps?
    
    

    This is almost beyond comprehension.  Since the beginning of
    1-800-DECSALE I've wondered if these people really work for DEC.
    They were always responsive - gave correct information - and in a
    timely fashion.

    There were even times when telephone reps would call me back two or
    three days later with "a better way" to do something that they had
    earlier suggested - more than once they have been DIRECTLY responsible
    for accelerating sales - large and small.  They have been DIRECTLY
    responsible for saving me incomprehensible amounts of time.

    For the most part they could answer questions in five minutes that
    would take me 1/2 a day to incorrectly resolve (ESPECIALLY software
    questions).

    The demise of this organization will, beyond any question, beyond any
    shadow of a doubt,  S E R I O U S L Y  impact my ability to efficiently
    use my time and keep customers happy.

    In 16 years of selling for Digital this is by far the most devastating
    news that I have ever had.

    Bubba

    Ditto what was said in .8
    
    The people in RSS were just plain excellent .... callbacks usually
    within the hour with good answers.  A sad loss of a valuable resource. 
    Life in the field just became alot more complicated  8-(

    
    		I am reminded of a time several years ago, a loved head
    professional football coach was fired in Dallas and a new one was 
    brought in from Miami.  Though Jimmy Johnson had been sucessful with
    every football team he ever coached, he was looked on by fans with 
    severe scepticism.  The general mood then was one of "you had better 
    be right coach!".  I wonder if this isn't what is going on right now
    with DEC.  The similarities of that situation and the one with this
    company are startling.  Those of us that are going to stay seem to be
    saying " ok, Mr. Palmer....you had *BETTER* be right" even though many
    of us are now wondering how, in light of all that is going away, this
    company can possibly survive as a full scale computer company.  I must
    admitt that I am having trouble visualizing success with little or even
    no vision from our highest management as to how that can and will be
    accomplished.  So far I have seen *ONLY* negative out of the "Mill".
    
    Dave  

    Does anybody know why the 1-800-DECSALE group was marked for delete in
    total?
    
    Where are salesreps expected to get help now on our products? I can
    tell you for a fact product managers are getting to the point where
    they can no longer answer the phones or return calls as more and more
    of the infrastructure between them and the customer is blown up.
    
    I'm curious how many calls per day does 1-800-DECSALE take? Where are
    those calls expected to go now? Surely not product managers.
    
    Dave

I'm not one to ask for help very often, but I do use 1-800-DEC-SALE 
occasionally and they have come through for me. This company is no where near 
ready to eliminate competent centralized last-resort technical resources.

So, who do we contact to try to get this decision reversed? I'll send a note 
to Russ Gullotti, but I'm sure there is someone between the RSS group and Russ 
that has the power to stay this execution.

Regards,

Jim Mickol
Sr. Sales Support Consultant
Xerox Account Team
Rochester, NY

	One assumes that we're reducing the cost of sales. I
	remember when we did away with tech editors, because XCON
	made them obsolete. (not) 

	But...we can't afford to have whole organizations whose
	function is to fix what the PCUs won't get right. I wish
	that the folks who have been bridging the gap could have
	been employed to help fix the problems, instead of losing
	their expertise.

	I would think that a more standard procedure would be to
	re-engineer the process to improve the quality, before
	eliminating quality control and rework. These are hardly
	normal times, though.

	Jim
	
	

From:	JMPSRV::MICKOL       "Xerox Account Team, Rochester, NY" 24-NOV-1992
								 22:26:14.19
To:	RUSSG,TOMC
CC:	GARYG,JERRY,MICKOL
Subj:	Demise of 1-800-DEC-SALE

To: Russ Gullotti
    Tom Colatosti

Cc: Gary Grant
    Jerry Marterella

Gentlemen, I just became aware of the impending TFSO of the Remote Sales
Support Group (RSS) that is part of the Colorado and Atlanta CSCs. This group
provides responsive telephone sales support via 1-800-DEC-SALE to Digital
sales reps and sales support specialists across the country. I don't know of
anyone in the sales organization who hasn't used this resource at one time or
another. I am not one to ask for help very often, but I use 1-800-DEC-SALE 
occasionally and they have come through for me every time.

Our internal information systems today are not sufficient to do without a
competent, centralized, last-resort technical support resource such as RSS.
Perhaps someday when Digital focuses more on its core competencies and we
streamline our business practices a good deal more, there will be no need for
1-800-DEC-SALE. With the cuts in staff and expertise we have already seen, I'm
very concerned about our ability to adequately support our customers.

If the RSS group is truely being eliminated, please let us know where we are 
to go for help. Even though Digital is moving to simplify our products and 
services, we still have a very complex product and service set and none of us 
here in the Field can be experts in them all. For the sake of our customers, 
please re-think this decision. Thanks for listening.

Respectfully Submitted,

Jim Mickol
Sr. Sales Support Consultant
Xerox Account Team
Rochester, NY
DTN 252-7106

    
    
    I'd say it would be a good idea to offer some cost saving alternatives
    as well.  I've already made my opinions about the casette tape sales
    training program.  I'm sure many of us have some good ideas about what 
    is and is not useful here in the field.  
    
    -Ed
    

    .11 >Surely not product managers.
    
    Dave, I don't know where else the field will be able to go.  Many,
    many product managers and groups have been very prompt in making
    the trip to Atlanta and/or Colorado to give us preliminary information
    because they *know* just how many calls DEC-SALE can off-load.  
    
    I'm not so unrealistic that I didn't think our group could be im-
    pacted because we are funded primarily by the sales organization; but
    I didn't think the entire group would be nailed because we also 
    support authorized distributors and some OEM's.  Of late, we've been
    adding new distributors to our database almost on a daily basis.
    
    I'm on the Services and Licensing team; just two weeks ago we reached
    an all-time daily high.....approximately 400 calls.  Multiple that # by
    the High-End Systems and Wide Area Networks group in Colorado, and
    the other two teams in Atlanta, PC/Networks and Low-to-Mid Range
    Systems group and this might give you some idea of the number of calls
    we handle *daily*......and this isn't even Q4 folks!!  
    
    All our teams have designated focal people for different product sets;
    this was so product managers wouldn't have multiple RSS people calling
    them for info.  This will all have to change now, should be verrrrrry
    interesting (not funny, but interesting)!!
    
    Although I've disagreed with them many times, our management team has
    been remarkable these last few weeks.  Many months ago, when most of
    us thought we were relatively safe, our management team did made a promise
    to us that if or when our status might change, they would inform us
    immediately.....and they kept their word......something I haven't
    seen happening around DEC too often of late.  
    
    To those of you who will remain, I hope you can pull this chestnut
    (DEC) out of the fire.  I've run the gamut of emotions today, but like
    so many others that have preceded me out the door, I DO want DEC to succeed!
    
    Karen
    
    

1-800-DEC-SALE was touted as one way to get technical sales support as local
sales support people were getting TFSOd.  Just as 1-800-DIGITAL picks up
"order-taking" from sales people, 1-800-DEC-SALE should be available to pick up
the slack from tremendously overworked local sales support people.

I, too, find this unbelievable.

Paul

    .11   Here in RSS we handle a weekly call volume of between 4,000 &
    6,000 calls.  We have not been told what the plans are to support the
    field when we are gone.  May make interesting conversation to say the
    least.
    
    As we exit the schene, all we can say is fare thee well.
    
    Edgar.
    
                                                            

Some of you have been missing the point ...

With our slimmed down product line, you will not need any sales assistance!!

Hardware: Alpha AXP or Intel (see 1-800-PCbydec)
Software: NT (see 800-microsoft), OSF/1, or OpenVMS
Applications: Call a VAR.

Now is that simple or what?

I wonder if there is a master plan at work here or just hysterical management
shooting convenient individual contributors (or organizations like RSS) for
the sake of cutting short term costs.

This decision to cut RSS may or may not be correct.  That is not for me to
decide.  What is an abomination is the fact that "management" apparantly
doesn't care enough to tell us how they intend to replace this absolutely
necessary function.  Or maybe they don't think sales reps giving customers 
correct information is necessary to the sucess of this company.

Bob 

    Maybe the plan to offer accurate and timely information on the products
    and services of Digital Equipment to our direct sales reps will be
    out-sourced.

    ... but perhaps some (by no means all, but enough to noticeably
    alleviate the info shortfall) of the slack might be taken up by more
    widespread use of the appropriate, or new, VAXnotes files...?  I know
    (I was there) that the Field has precious little time to spend (and
    Management actively discourages it, but whadda THEY know?) in NOTES,
    but NOTES could leverage that time better than not, n'est-ce-pas?
    
    Just a thought...
    
    Dan
    

	RE: .22 I've been a big Notes booster for years but I doubt that
	Notes could replace the need filled by DEC-SALE. The information
	may be there but it's often hard and time consuming to find. Also
	it's not the way most sales people are used to working. I spent
	~5 years doing technical support for sales people both at Digital
	and an other computer company. What sales people need is an information
	sponge. Someone who soaks up information and when the sales person
	needs some they go squeeze them.

	Spending time scanning notes conferences is not good utilization of
	a sales persons time. They should be spending time in front of customers.
	When they need information that they don't have they should have someone
	to ask. Let that resource spend an hour or a day looking for the answers
	and let the sales person spend that time with other customers.

			Alfred

    .23 Alfred,
    
    Thank you; the sponge analogy sums it up pretty good.  Most (not all)
    sales reps DO spend time researching answers before they call DEC-SALE,
    but most also have the sense to know when to cut their losses when the
    research time becomes too great (or the info in internal publications
    is too ambiguous).
    
    Since Alpha AXP info hit the streets, our call volume has soared; if
    PC-By-DEC could handle the hardware questions and the Nov 9 Sales
    Update answered all the SW questions regarding OpenVms and OSF/1;
    I'm sure the sales reps wouldn't bother calling us.
    
    Karen
    
    

    "We're sorry. The company you have dialed is not in service at this time."
    

    If we did some Monday morning quarterbacking, the right approach would
    have been to agressively traing Sales Support Consultants to become
    delivery consultants.  Our costs of sales are too high, with the
    support organizations in place.  Once we start billing customers for
    value added information, this could fund the remote sales support
    offices that are needed because of their ability to collect
    product/service information from all of the PCU/IBU's.  
    
    steve

    Being in a remote sales branch office in an admin function supporting
    the Sales Team, I know how important DEC-SALE is/was.  It's my hope
    that the new Customer Support Consultants can play an important role in
    increasing sales productivity  by taking on SOME of what used to be
    DEC-SALE calls.  In no way, could they handle all...  I don't believe
    the Consultants are knowledgable enought YET, but I think it's
    Logistics Services Managements intention that they become those
    sponges.
    
    Well, I'm thoroughly depressed now.....
    
    JP

    This announcement has me in dis-belief.  I have always counted on 
    the DEC_SALE people to help find the answer when it was not in a 
    hard to read cataloge, can't get ahold of product management and 
    the customer is ready to buy.  They have saved the company thousands
    of dollars in time, eliminating many quoting mistakes and in knowing 
    I could make ONE call and get someone.  I even have the number on my 
    auto-dial.  
    
    This seems to me the "government" approach to downsizing.  Don't 
    cut needless and useless resources, cut the programs like sports in
    school and other activities that keep the kids interested and active.
    
    The analogy here is that these are both important SUPPORT resources.
    Think about it, I haven't seen a SOC or anything else that will help
    me really configure a new ALPHA system. Our marketing support is 
    still in the dark.  
    
    I wish you all luck at DECSALE if this is not turned around.
    
    Mike 

    Like .19 said, you're all missing the overall picture. Since it's a
    goal of Palmer's to be in "silicon,software,services and networks" (and 
    commoditized products at that), the traditional selling model is not
    what will be utilized in the future. Yes, you may need the RSS TODAY,
    but DEC won't need traditional sales tomorrow (and hence the RSS).
    
    Ken....
    

    Yes, there is an overall picture.  But, you also must ensure you 
    manage the details to reach your goal.  You don't start at the 
    beginning and jump to the end.  That is precisely what this move seems
    to be doing.  We don't have the lions share of the commodities and 
    service market today to ensure our revenue stream remains strong. So,
    you need to PLAN on moving forward when that transition from 
    traditional revenue and new revenue begins to cross.  At that time 
    you can (and should have planned to) move away from NON-necessary
    resources.
    
    We all want the move to a NEW vision to happen tomorrow. It won't.
    AND, since the people in charge of making decisions that impact 
    business directly can't see everything, it is up to us to help
    push that information back.  
    
    regards,   

    It's despressing to see so much technical talent butchered by the
    company. I've seen my former sales support group (in a remote sales
    office) dwindle from 22 to 5 in 18 months. Senior management should
    hear what our customers are saying about that. I hear it on a regular
    basis and it's not a pretty picture.
    
    gene.

    this whole string gives me an idea. stand by.

    
    
      We also work with distributors who are very upset,many are rethinking
    wether or not they want to continue selling dec equipment since dec 
    doesn't want to support their efforts. Doesn't that line up with 
    Palmers thinking, move more towards vars, etc???? 
    
    
    PKB
    
    
    

    Pat:
    
    I know the ATDs are concerned, but DEC would really be crazy to
    move away from the distributors......they sell a LOT of DEC HW and
    SW.  DEC is still signing on new ATDs; why continue what might be
    construed as deceptive behavior if the intent is to move strictly
    toward VARS?
    
    VARs sell to specific markets; most of them couldn't pick up the
    type of sale that would typically go to an ATD if they wanted to.
    
    We've all seen many notes in here of people who have passed leads
    to a local DEC rep and then are upset because the DEC rep passes
    the lead to an ATD.....but that IS the way it is supposed to work.
    The internal reps are supposed to handle the large, named accounts;
    mid-sized companies are supposed to be handled by ATDs.
    
    My best friend (a former DEC sales rep) just signed on with one of our
    newest ATDs; in fact when she had her initial interview in early Oct,
    the company had not signed the final paperwork making it an official
    DEC ATD.  This ATD is a little different in that he also sells IBM
    stuff; but his plan for the Atlanta area was 70% DEC, 30% IBM.  My
    friend will be a tremendous asset to him because after 14.5 years with
    DEC she knows where to go to get the answers; but 9 times out of 10 if
    she is in a hurry, she'll call DEC-SALE (she was also one of the
    original members of DEC-SALE) :-)  But if DEC starts snubbing ATDs,
    how long to you think it would take this ATD to concentrate a little 
    more on Big Blue stuff? And.......with the Super Bowl coming to
    Atlanta in '94 and the Olympics in '96, well I think you all can fill
    in the picture.  If it isn't DEC-SALE, DEC had damn well better have
    some outlet of support for the ATDs.....they DO pay for it after all!
    
    Earlier today my friend was joking that she was glad I live across the
    street.......figures she could pick my brain on SW services and
    licensing; but let's face it, once DEC-SALE it out of the loop, I'll
    only be able to help for a limited amount of time.  She needs DEC-SALE;
    she was told she might not get any S.O.C.s and she hasn't started to
    receive CSO Updates yet!  My friend has already informed her boss (also
    owner of the company); he is not a happy camper because he was
    definitely led to believe that he could count on DEC-SALE to provide
    support to his people.  If the ATDs really get POd at DEC, they could
    really do us a lot of damage!
    
    Really feels like the more things change, the more they stay the same
    :-(
    
    Karen
    

    re: -1
    
    >>she was told she might not get any S.O.C.s and she hasn't started to
    
    S.O.C.s are free for the asking.  Anybody can walk into a Sales
    Communications Center and ask for one, call the local office and 
    ask for one, or call 800-DIGITAL and ask for one.  She would not
    receive them from an automatic distribution list because the only
    distribution list maintained for the S.O.C. is for Digital personnel
    and bulk shipments to the Sales Communications Centers.
    
    Tom
    Sr. Editor, Digital SOC
    
            

    re: .29
    
>    Like .19 said, you're all missing the overall picture. Since it's a
>    goal of Palmer's to be in "silicon,software,services and networks" (and 
>    commoditized products at that), the traditional selling model is not
>    what will be utilized in the future. Yes, you may need the RSS TODAY,
>    but DEC won't need traditional sales tomorrow (and hence the RSS).
    
    It seems like someone's confusing the metaphorical tmorrow with the
    literal one.
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    Cost of sales is too High? We're moving to a new "selling model".
    
    OK, let's fire all the sales people and let upper management call
    on our customers. Let's see what happens. 
    
    BTW- I was thinking of starting a new company. 1-900-dec-help.
    I'll put an Alpha, VAX and intel machine in my basement with
    pathworks and thin wire. I'll sit at my desk with my SOC and NAC
    catalog and charge $10 a call.
    
    Enjoy the Holidays people! Timing is everything!

    Re .-1
    
    Now that's an idea.
    
    Dave
    
    PS Have our competitors managed to get some people into our senior
       management ranks to deliberately screw Digital. Judging by decisions
       such as this one it appears so.

    I was going to reply earlier but things came up and .37 beat me
    to the punch.  I think this group could actually make it on their
    own unless digital put a 1-900 lock on all the phones.
    
    It is ironic that the effect of digital letting go of so
    many talented VMS people may produce more buisness in the
    future because these people will be grabbed up by many companies.
    When it comes time for them to suggest/define computer hardware
    and software, they'll probably choose what they already know
    inside and out.
    
    Good luck to all.

900 numbers are already locked out of most DTN phones.

    .35
    
    Tom, as I mentioned my friend knows DEC inside out.....the local
    sales office was her first point of contact.  Now, your organizatino
    might be shipping SOCs to Sales Communication Centers, but they 
    are not getting into the hands of internal reps, much less ATDS.  Is
    it possible these manuals are sitting somewhere on a loading dock
    or are  hidden in a mail room?  I wouldn't doubt you have a well
    planned method of implementation; but the fact remains that there is
    a short circuit in the system...lots of luck trying to find it.
    
    Quite often, I'm speaking to a rep who is working from an SOC that is
    2-3 quarters old......I KNOW 1-800-DIGITAL *will not* send the SOC to
    them, you see they are DEC internal, not an E/U......as of today,
    1-800-DIGITAL will not speak to an internal DEC sales rep or support
    person!  The only way I could get the last DEC DIRECT PC SW catalog,
    was to fib and say I was an E/U and give them my home address!!
    
    The only way DEC-SALE has been able to get SOCs and Sales Updates in
    a timely fashion is because a former member of our team used to work
    in Northboro; he used his contacts and got us on bulk ship!!  Before
    that the field sometimes had their copies before DEC-SALE DID!!
    
    Perhaps inaccurate info in the SOC and other printed documents belongs
    to product managers, but when these documents get into the hands of
    customers and the customer cuts a P.O. and then the rep tries to
    enter it into AQS and AQS goes "blap".......who is the rep supposed
    to call?
    
    I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone; I'm just trying to point
    out what is obvious to anyone who is not located in the Greater Maynard
    Area.  As someone else pointed out; IF our internal documents were
    accurate and well-written....IF policy didn't change bi-weekly, I
    would agree that eventually there would be no need for DEC-SALE with
    its current headcout....BUT.....and that is a big BUT; we aren't
    even close to Utopia yet.  How many sales and other opportunities are
    we going to kiss goodbye because DEC does *not* have it now....at
    least internally!!
    
    Karen
    

    Back in 87 i did a short tour with the RSS in Atlanta.  I have
    experienced first hand how well the RSS does it's job.  I know that
    they are real good people and employees.  I wish them well, and I'm
    sure that they will be able to do well.

    As to Sales getting there information from the SOC etc, I imagine for the
    bulk of them it will not be a problem.  But what's going to happen with
    the ones that can't read?  I mean if they can't pick up a phone and get
    someone on the line in five nanoseconds they drop the sale.  Having
    been a product manager once in the past and working with them on a
    daily basis now I'd think that the chances of a PM returning a
    salespersons phone call is slim to none.  It's not their job to support
    the field or sales of their product.  If they spent their time doing 
    that they'd never get a product shipping etc.  A lot of them do it when
    they have time, but after the sales update is written and sales
    readiness is done they go on to the next version/product and forget the
    last one.  

    I think sales management (who are the ones that funded the RSS) decided
    that Sales is going to have to get information some other way.  If I
    was a salesperson i'd go ask them where I was suppose to get my
    information now.

This move seems akin to draining engine oil to shed excess weight- short term
relief, long term headache!

	As a terminal 1-800-DECSALE specialist, I guess I am somewhat
	biased about the decision to eliminate the team.  I feel we
	provided valuable support that was, at least, worth our
	$9 million budget.  I could be wrong.  Maybe the $9M and the
	80+ specialist positions will be able to add value back in the 
	field?  Maybe the decision for the Sales Reps to earn commissions
	starting next year will come from that "extra" money.

	But, I am wondering how the transition from 1-800-DECSALE to
	whatever support will replace it will affect DEC Sales?  I would
	like to see DEC succeed whether I am part of it or not.  I have
	been with DEC for twelve years as a hardware specialist, software
	specialist, and sales support specialist.  I have worked with
	customers and DEC folks and hopefully have had a postive effect
	on their satisfaction and bottom line.

	But I leave with mixed feelings...

	I have heard repeatedly from management at all levels that 
	"people are our most valuable asset."  What does that mean?
	Is it the training and experience that we have accumulated
	via DEC's investment in us?  But when the "chips" are down
	where do the "necessary losses" start?  A rhetorical question.

	One thing corporate America must realize -- the intellectual
	power that people accumulate goes with them.  Companies that see 
	value in it and are willing to pay for it will succeed where others
	who took it for granted will fail.  There are numerous examples
	in this industry, and some of them in DEC.  Dave Cutler and Microsoft
	immediately come to mind.  He and others created one of the most
	successful operating systems in the industry.  Now he and others
	have created another one...for Microsoft.

	I do not profess to know what is going on at corporate levels, nor
	do I suggest that one small entity, like 1-800-DECSALE, can be
	determined too valuable to cut.  I see tremendous talent leaving
	DEC, like David Stone (in my opinion), and also at the local level
	here in Colorado.  I'm sure the same "brain-drain" is happening
	in Atlanta, as well as all over DEC.  I'm sure it's happening
	from the highest levels of engineering to key people in the field.

	I can only speak for myself, however.  I thank DEC for giving me
	the opportunity to learn state-of-the-art technology, like Alpha,
	object-oriented programming, PC-LAN systems, client-server, and
	the list goes on.  My co-workers have also learned other skills and
	have accumulated valuable information.  We'll all go our separate ways
	and take our tools with us.  I'm confident that others will see
	the "trampled pearls" and find useful ways to maximize their values.

	So long and good fortune, 

	Rick

	re .44:

>	I have heard repeatedly from management at all levels that 
>	"people are our most valuable asset."  What does that mean?

	Nothing.

	/Tom

    It's kinda like when I was in the military.... I witnessed an accident
    involving a fellow GI... He was hurt pretty bad... and the truck was
    out of commission..
    
    The wrecker showed up at the accident, towed the truck away, a
    replacement truck brought back out to the accident site... and the
    injured GI assisted into the new truck, with another driver... The GI
    was treated two/three hours later, at a "field medics'" tent.. 
    
    Weeks later, a REAL doctor had to rebreak a bone in order to set it
    properly....
    
    yup.... I think this kinda illustrates the valued "human ASSet"...
    
    Unfortunately, I think Digital is taking the same approach.!
    
    Become a piece of hardware, you'll have a better chance of serviving.
    
    Later..!
    
    Bob G.
    

    In all this information I would be curious to know if Bob Palmer is
    aware of this particular cut and to know how he feels it makes any kind
    of sense. Certainly I can't see it's justification with ANY logic I
    apply to it.   It is certainly telling me that there is no longer going
    to be a DEC that looks even remotely like what I have been familiar
    with for 10+ years and I'd sure like to have an idea of what it will
    look like! What will make DEC unique, special, different from any other
    commodity vendor & will anything more than a weekly check invoke
    loyalty? But then "loyalty" is supposedly passe'?? I hope there will be
    something left that inspires those who remain. Something very strong
    will be needed to counteract the rapidly increasing confusion &
    pessimism. This last firing (let's get honest with our terminology), 
    gives DEC folks & customers a strong "contradictory message" and will,
    I believe, cost us more revenue than it was ever hoped to save in
    "cost" reduction! I am now much more concerned and saddened by what
    seems to be happening to this great company - at the very least, much
    less confident than I was before this development.  

    maybe those that decided on the cut figured that it wasn't Sales' job to
    fix the problem of getting the right information into the hands and
    minds of salespeople.  After all it was Sales that funded the RSS. 
    Maybe they figured the problem would be fixed in another way and this
    is forcing the issue.

    Or maybe they heard the complaints about the RSS more often than the
    compliments.  I know when I worked there that there were often
    complaints from the field that we were to slow in getting on the phone
    and to slow in getting back to them.  Some people in Sales seem to
    think they are the only one calling and demand instant everything.  ;)

>>  After all it was Sales that funded the RSS. 
  

Interesting.  If this is true (and I don't doubt it is) then perhaps we have
the real reason for the cut.  The field is struggling with the same target
cutdowns everyone else is.  Yet "sales management" apparantly doesn't want
to cut too deeply into the sales force.  So, to achieve their numbers they
cut "peripheral" groups that fall under their umbrella.  

    -1 last.....
    
    Mr. Allen......I can't let your comments continue unanswered.  You say
    you did a short stint with RSS in 1987; it must have been mighty
    short...and you couldn't have been calling into our group much since
    that time!!
    
    I joined RSS three years ago; frankly at first I couldn't figure out
    why so many calls that came through had a sales rep on a speaker-phone;
    those were the days when we were initially pulling out of the mode
    of being 1-800-DEC-HOLD.  It was funny to hear the astonishment in
    the voices of the callers as they realized they were talking to a
    real live person, ready to answer their questions.
    
    In the beginning I would ask a few reps *why* they were willing to
    wait 30-40 minutes to speak to someone in RSS.  *Without exception*
    the response always was that although they were not crazy about the
    wait time, they knew that when they got an RSS specialist on the phone,
    they had FINALLY reached someone who would be able to answer most of
    their questions....and those questions that couldn't be answered right
    off, would be researched....and they would get a response back from
    RSS!!  Apparently you haven't paid attention to other notes in this
    string that told you that there were 80+ specialists on the phones;
    the increase in headcount came BECAUSE sales reps and their field
    support people were willing to take a few extra minutes and send mail
    to the proper people with suggestions to remedy the situation.....and
    that remedy was never a suggestion that DEC-SALE become "unfunded" 
    (to use one of the newest spins on PC terminology) :-}  Their efforts
    got RSS the extra funding for extra headcount; today 98% of ALL calls
    coming into 1-800-DEC-SALE ring directly to a specialist; the
    specialists announce their names, ask for a badge/access # and we're
    in business.  98% of 4-6,000 calls per week; may I AM stupid, but I
    don't think that is too shabby a return on the investment made by the
    sales organization!! Thank God for those callers who were willing to
    take the extra step and not just bitch about a situation; they helped
    fix it!!
    
    Today, very few of the sales reps and sales support people I speak to
    give any evidence that they can't read (frankly IMHO that was a low
    blow)!!  They are calling with Sales Update, SOC, etc. in hand.....
    they are calling because the part #s printed in those documents are
    wrong and AQS is bleeping back at them!!  Or, they are calling because
    some of the articles are so ambiguous that they raise more questions
    than they answer!!  Most SW SPDs today are less than helpful; just
    when you think you are getting to the meat of something, you invar-
    ibly find the phrase "for further information, please call your local
    Digital office or sales representative)!!  I realize it's probably
    impossible now and in the future considering the loss of people; but
    I assume we will still have to put together SPDs <---- last time I
    looked they legally defined what a product is supposed to do.  Just
    a suggestion (if anyone is interested); you might take a look at the
    SPDs written for the PDP space; RT-11, RSX11-M+, RSTS/E etc, and their
    applications; now if you have one of those SPDs in hand and you can't
    figure out how to quote the product, there are a number of scenarios
    that could fit:
    
    	A.  There is a disconnect between the eyeball and the brain.
        B.  The caller is so new to DEC they don't even know what PDP
    	    stands for..... does Programable Data Processor ring any
    	    bells?
    	C.  The part numbering scheme is different (it didn't change
    	    when we went to the 2-5-2 part numbering scheme.  Anyone
    	    who joined DEC after the summer of 1988 probably isn't
    	    familiar with the 5-2 scheme.....explain it to them...get
    	    a copy of the SPD in their hands and they are off and running.
            
    For anyone who has read this far, thank you.  Up until now I thought I
    was handling the situation fairly well, although I've always welcomed
    creative/objective criticism - cheap shots rub me the wrong way.
    
    Mr Allen asked some good questions and said it wasn't Sales' job to
    fix the problem of getting the right information into the hands and
    minds of salespeople.  OK, whose job is it?
    
    Karen
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
                                              

    Notes collision.....
    
    
    .49  You probably hit the nail right on the head.  At our second
    meeting (when we still thought SOME of DEC-SALE would remain); I
    asked our DM if the decision to cut "deeper" into RSS could be as
    simple as RSS being asked to 'share in the pain' considering field
    sales has already been gutted pretty good.....and he said I was
    probably not far off the mark.
    
    I could accept that....I assumed I'd be in the first round to go,
    considering the health problems I've had of late.  1/1/93 I
    "celebrate"? my 49th birthday......from DEC's health/benefits stand-
    point, I'm a liability.....I've made it 5 years beyond the age where
    my Dad has his first heart attack, but my doc tells me I've been warned
    and if the stress didn't stop I was asking for it.
    
    This has been the most difficult part of a lot of my personal scenario
    to accept. For the most part, I truely love what I do.  I don't wake
    up in the A.M. and want to pull the covers over my head and think I
    don't want to go into work.  Yes, my job has difficult moments...but
    why should RSS be exempt?  Most days although I go home exhausted, I can
    still hear those terrific words from internal sales reps and support
    people, PLUS distributors saying "thank you", "you've saved my butt", "don't
    know what I'd do without you folks"......well, it's pretty hard to go
    home feeling bad about ones job under these circumstances.
    
    However I was more than willing to pass the baton on to my younger
    co-workers who had the good health and stamina to go along with their
    enthusiasm.  What they lack in DEC experience could be made up with
    their drive, heart and smarts......now even they won't be given the
    chance to prove themselves....a chance once given to me by a special
    boss named Ray Turcotte.....12+ years ago.
    
    I really hope all this sacrifice pays off; nothing would break my
    heart more than picking up a newspaper a few years down the road
    and reading the DEC has begun putting locks on its facilities as
    a result of having to file for bankruptcy <----- and those of you
    who think this CAN'T happen; just remember Wang.
    
    It's time the powers that be start making SMART decisions, not just
    EXPEDIENT decisions.
    
    

    Re .all
    
    Does anybody know if any Account Group Managers are trying to get this
    decision reversed? Could it be somebody is playing a game of
    "chicken". If so I think that is despicable. I really can't believe
    that destroying RSS can be allowed to happen. Doesn't anybody with any
    power have a mechanism to stop this lunacy?
    
    Dave

.52> Does anybody know if any Account Group Managers are trying to get this
.52> decision reversed?

Question:  can it be "reversed"?  What about the person that may have an
interview Monday and accepted a new position beginning December 19th?
What about the person that signed papers for a new place to live - say
out of state - effective December 19th?  What about the person that
may have already accepted an offer on his/her home in Colorado and is now
told "oops, made a mistake .. DECSALE not going away ..."

How does one "reverse" something like this?

This was probably the worst Thanksgiving that I've ever had and I don't
work for DECSALE.  The demise of the organization does have a significant
impact on my ability to do business.

If someone asked me "of all of the organizations in Digital which would hurt
the most if it went away" it would be 1-800-DECSALE!  99% of the marketing
people could disappear overnight and you'd not notice one iota of quality or
quantity of selling that I do ... guess what ... I think that they're still
there and 1-800-DECSALE is gone (will be gone).  If I'm not badly mistaken
I'd bet that about 90% of the sales force would agree with this.

Bubba

    Gene:
    
    Aw come on.......give Bubba a break.  Not sure if the surveys would
    definitely indicate 99% of the sales force; but surveys sent to field
    sales people and other RSS users have indicated that out of all the
    resources available to sales for support, on a scale of 1-5 (1 being
    best); which resource did sales consider most valuable?  DEC-SALE
    came in 1st for the last 3-4 years!!
    
    Bubba, as far as decision being reversed; I'm not sure that many
    people have made any attempts to find another job.  RSS just found
    out before Thanksgiving that the group was history.  RSS had quite
    a few people on vacation, so I imagine a few found out today when
    they returned to Atlanta; probably a few will get shocked tomorrow
    morning.
    
    Your note poses an interesting question that has popped to mind before
    when folks in other topics talked about getting enough advance notice
    so they could find another job with DEC.  I keep wondering WHY they
    would want to find another job within DEC????  The "right-sizing" is
    going to continue; I agree that DEC-SALE should participate (but not
    the entire group)......but what's the point in looking for another
    job within DEC?  One might as well have a bulls-eye painted on their
    chest....hmmmmmm, that reminds me of one of Gary Larson's Far Side
    cartoons :-)
    
    I've read the notes of people who have indicated that they have stayed
    one step ahead of TFSO 3-4 times and I must admit I shake my head in
    amazement....why bother?
    
    Unless there is an ATD who could utilize my skills in configuring
    DEC's SW licenses, services and warranty, I'm history as far as in-
    volvement with DEC is concerned.  BellSouth just eliminated 8,500
    jobs (bulk here in Atlanta), so there goes Plan 2  :-)  Some co-
    workers who were in town for the final announcement speculated that
    we might be referred to a temp agency and then brought back into do
    the same job; maybe some of them would be interested, but not this
    chickadee.....
    
    Wonder how I'd look in uniform.....as a McGranny :-)
    
    Karen
    

    RE .53
    
    As far as I understand it the RSS group hasn't OFFICIALLY been notified
    yet that they are history. Their manager has just had the good grace to
    tell them that that is the plan of record. Like all plans of record in
    DEC they can change from week to week. Until a person has signed papers
    agreeing that they're no longer an employee they are an employee.
    As for people that may have made plans out of state there is nothing
    stopping them from giving notice and continuing with those plans.
    
    By the way it is not only the sales force that thinks most of marketing
    in DEC is a big joke. I'm in engineering and have exactly the same
    view. In my 12 years at DEC I'v known TWO (yes count them TWO) people
    in marketing who I've thought of as competent marketeers. The rest are
    all middle of the road.
    
    Personally I think the way somebody on high could turn around this RSS
    thing is to keep RSS and for Palmer to go tell the head of marketing to
    TFSO the same number of people instead. Actually they'd probably have to
    can less since the little I know about marketeers salaries is that they
    are overpaid.
    
    Since I'm not the only person in engineering that doesn't think much of
    DEC's marketing organization and since sales obviously doesn't think
    much of them who does?
    
    Dave
    
    

re: .52

Dave

Several people in the New York Financial District went nuclear last week when
we found out.  Our AGM has contacted Tom Colatosti, VP of Eastern States, to
see if this decision can be reversed.

Bob

PS - Does this remind anyone of the recent Ultrix/OSF debacle that raised
such an uproar in the customer base that David Stone reversed his decision?

    
    Well I've done my bit. I've sent the following to Mike Thurk who is the
    VP of NAC.
    
    Dave

From:	SMAUG::GARROD "An Englishman's mind works best when it is almost too late  30-Nov-1992 0758 -0500" 30-NOV-1992 08:16:22.92
To:	DELNI::THURK
CC:	GARROD
Subj:	RSS 1-800-DEC-SALE is going away. Is this wise?

Mike,

I'm sending you this because you're the highest level person in Digital that
could associate my face with a mail message.

Anyway to the point. The whole Remote Sales Support (RSS) organizaion (80 
people) is being TSFOed. Nobody can understand the logic behind this. This
organization takes between 4,000-6,000 calls per week from the sales force
to get technical sales support and licensing support on DEC's product set.
This group is being eliminated with no communicated plan in place to address
the support needs of the sales force. I personally believe that this is
absolutely sure to lead to dwindling revenue and the inevitable spiral 
downwards that Larry Walker said in his talk to NAC that we must avoid.
Sure long term our product set shouldn't be so damn complicated that sales
needs RSS to sort it out. But TFSOing RSS isn't going to solve that problem.

Locally the major impact of this is that Product Managers will be overloaded
with sales support calls (a lot of them already are). RSS is an organization
that is very much valued by the sales force that actually work with customers.
This appears to me to be a real knee jerk reaction to cutting costs and will 
cost the company far more than the $8M saved in costs through revenue lost.
Not to mention the bad feelings from our distributors and ATDs who use
1-800-DEC-SALE.

Since I'd like to offer a solution rather than just point out a problem I would
say that RSS should be left in place (maybe it should be cut in size, I don't
know) but the savings should be from TFSOing people from some of the more
nebulous industry marketing groups who I feel are far less valuable to Digital
than the RSS group is.

This decision really bothers me. I've been holding the faith and hoping
that Digital could pull itself out of the mess it is in. But when I see
knee jerk responses such as this to cost cutting I wonder.

If you agree that this is not a very wise decision I'd hope that you'd be
able to exert some influence to get people to see sense. I have no problem
with my mail message being forwarded should you want to do that.

Dave

PS I enclose the notice that the group is going away and a couple of comments
   from others that are typical of comments in general.

    [I attached .0, .28 and .16 from this notes string] 

    
    Re: .56
    
    SMAUG::GARROD "From VMS -> NT; Unix a mere page from history"
                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    I don't think I'd put much stock into comments about marketing 
    from someone who holds beliefs as stupid as this.
    
    -Ed
    

    I received a phone call form a sales rep I used to work with (I used to
    be in Sales Support).  It appears as if word of the demise of
    1-800-DEC-SALE is already getting twisted and blown out of proportion. 
    He called to ask me if I knew about the demise of the telephone support
    line and what were CUSTOMERS to do!?  It appears as if, at least at
    this local DEC sales office, people are interpreting the demise of
    1-800-DEC-SALE being the total demise of all telephone support, both
    for internal field people and our customer base.
    
    While I do not work for "1-800-DEC-SALE" and do not know first-hand, it
    is my understanding that we are doing nothing to cut-back or eliminate
    the telephone support lines for our customers.  I would strongly
    suggest that someone "in a position of authority" get an official memo
    out to the field AND OUR CUSTOMERS telling them what is going on and
    that the telephone support that our customers use is not changing at
    all.
    
    Now is not the time for any false rumors to be getting out, especially
    to our customer base

    re: .60
    
    That would explain the note I just replied to...
    
    Bob

re .61, "official statement"

Isn't that kind of like "military intelligence?"

Mickey.

	The trend in this industry is away from direct sales forces. 
	Silicon, software, services, networking: that's digital. 
	Not systems, not solutions. Does silicon require a broad 
	sales force? Does software? MicroSoft doesn't have a direct
	sales force. Does Services? Does networking? 

	If you don't need a direct sales force like you used to,
	why do you need a sales support function? 

	Cancelling RSS is a sign: Direct Sales is less important than
	it used to be. Most of these responses think the sales 
	force is being stranded without support. Well, the real 
	message is the direct sales force is becoming less important. 
	We will need some salespeople to sell Alpha chips to other vendors. 
	But not many. We will need some salespeople to sell disk drives to 
	other vendors. But not many. 

	The real question isn't why RSS is being cancelled. 
	The question is "What happens to the rest of the sales force over
	the next three years?"

    Re: .60
    
    > He called to ask me if I knew about the demise of the telephone support
    > line and what were CUSTOMERS to do!?  It appears as if, at least at
    > this local DEC sales office, people are interpreting the demise of
    > 1-800-DEC-SALE being the total demise of all telephone support, both
    > for internal field people and our customer base.
    
    1-800-DEC-SALE not to be confused with 1-800-332-8000 Customer Support
    Center.
    
    I've read all the notes, and not one, says the Customer phone support
    is going away.  Rather the Distributor's & Digital Sales Reps Support
    is going away.  Eventually that will affect customers.
    
    I work in DECSALE, well for 2 more weeks atleast, to know for sure if we
    are going or not, Just Try Dialing 1-800-DEC-SALE pick any option from
    1 - 5, before any Specialist line rings, you will hear a message with
    the new hours, From 8 am - 8 pm Eastern Standard Time to accommodate the
    West coast, it is going to 9am - 6pm EST from November 30th to December
    11th at which time the service will no longer be available.
    
    Now that sounds pretty official, try it?
    
    When we assisted Sales, Sales Support, & Distrubutors like Avnet
    Computers, Pioneer Standard, Wyle Labs, etc...and now all of a sudden
    that support is gone?  I can see how people would not be happy, and
    they have a right to feel that way.  The old addage comes to mind.
    "Don't work harder, work smarter"  Use your resources, the tools around
    you.  When you use a productivity tool for X number of years, and then
    because of what ever reason you can afford the tool anymore and take it
    away, naturally your productivity will go down.  At which point you can
    only do as best you can.  Hopefully this decision to disband RSS wont
    come back to bite DEC in the "your know where".
    
    Edgar.

    The reps in this site this AM were complaining loudly about the demise
    of DEC-SALE.  I pointed out that the CSC's were still available, call
    1-800-525-7104 for internal support.  Responses included :
    
    - "they won't talk to Sales Reps"
    - "it's just for hardware"
    - "that's fine if you know what the question is, but they're not going 
       to help me configure"
    
    I just shook my head and walked away.  
    
    karl, one of those technical guys

    re .64
    
    As the author of .60, I agree with you that none of the memos, notes,
    etc said that the CUSTOMER support lines were going away.  All I was
    trying to point out is that the field is misinterpreting the message.

    Re: .63
    
    While you might be right in your comments about Digital Trends & RSS. 
    I would think down Scaling would be a solution versus going for the
    Jugular.
    
    What has happened is like taking the Horse from the pony express rider. 
    Set him up for failure and then get rid of him.
    
    Not nice.
    
    Edgar.
    

    >Microsoft does'nt have a direct sales force.
    	???? Since When?? I know a number of them!
    Does networking require a "broad" sales force? - How wide is broad
    here? It sure does require one competent one & judging from the numbers
    of networks being rolled out and their increasing complexity, I doubt
    that accounts can be covered in a rapid-fire light touch fashion. While
    this move to disband RSS may well be a prelude to other mauvers, it is
    NOT a well thought out one. If it turns out to be, it certainly isn't
    reasonable given today's current dearth of information on future
    directions.

    
    Direct sales force means a force that sells directly to the end-user. 
    Microsoft has salespeople that sell to distributors and OEMs and
    interface to other companies like DEC,  but 
    they don't sell direct through sales people. 
    
    Digital for years primarily sold all of its products to Fortune 1000
    companies through direct sales people. That's the model that's dying. 
    Even Fortune 1000 companies are buying from integration companies 
    or integrating themselves. They buy lots of pieces from everybody 
    and try to put them together. They don't buy the whole thing from 
    one vendor or one vendor and an ISV joined together and represented
    by a single salesperson. ITs moving away from that. 
    
    If you know a Microsoft salesperson who sold a networked office
    automation system to some business somewhere, let me know. 

    MS does have a sales force. What they do though is "market" (create
    demand), back away, and turn the "sale" over to an OEM. They are on a
    "budget" but they get their credit thru OEM sales.

    RE: .69 - Yes, I DO know a Microsoft salesman who has / is selling
    direct to a customer - my customer! His name is Tim & he is based in
    Detroit. I guess that's pretty specific & all the detail I'll provide
    here. Granted the model is changing, but DEC is not even as simple as
    Microsoft - who provides more complex products than several others. I
    like Gordon Bell's comment in the 11/30/92 USA Today article - divide
    DEC into 6 groups that talk to each other as little as possible & keep
    it simple. Six groups still require several sales folks and some tech
    support as well.

    re: .65 - Sorry, but your reps are correct in 2 out of 3 & 33% is = F.
    
    Dave, one of those techinical guys

o  The topic of this note is regarding (800)DEC-SALE, the Remote Sales 
   Support Group.  At this time, there are no plans (to my knowlege) to 
   eliminate any of the Customer Support Centers.  It -has- been 
   announced that support personnel at the CSCs will be participating 
   in this next round of TFSO -- at least, I am told my district will be 
   participating.

o  The telephone number (800)332-8000 (which used to get you the Atlanta
   CSC) is no longer the recommended telephone number to call.  The CSCs 
   have implemented a new call attendant and single (800) number to use
   which should route you to the appropriate CSC.  The new number is 
   (800)354-9000.

o  I cannot substantiate the rumor, but I am told that the Atlanta CSC
   Marketing group (approx. 5 employees, I think) was notified yesterday
   their jobs have been made redundant (for lack of a better term).

-Andy

    Just to clarify #2242.73, the CSC Marketing Team (residing in both
    Colorado and Atlanta locations of the CSC) have been told that they are
    at high risk, but haven't been told they are being cut.
    
    By the way, there is NO REDUNDANCY in the CSC Marketing Team...
    
    I will post a note in this conference if the Marketing Team is cut
    since I am one of them!
    
    Val
    

I am greatly saddened by the demise of the RSST.

In a prior life I was one of the founding members of that organization.   I can
assure everyone that this is not the first time that extinction was considered
for the RSST. 

In fact I can remember that the only time that we were not under the threat of
"going away" was after a "do or die" funding meeting with many Sales VPs here
at the Colorado Springs Support Center.   Chick Shue came along with all of his
staff, and all the staffs his other various organizations.

Our presentation was for the continued funding of the RSST. The presentation
concluded with an invitation for Chick and his staff, to get onto the phones
with the specialists, and to really *listen* to the problems that the sales
reps deal with day to day.  I'll never ever forget it. 

Chick accepted and after getting off one call (he was in the background
listening in), and he exclaimed that he had no idea how complicated everything
had become, he elaborated that when he had been selling, they sold one part
number (WS78 w/peripherals) and this took care of everything, he was amazed and
what the RSST did, and how incredible the complexity of the selling environment
had become.  The call he was involved in was considered by us to be pretty much
routine, a CI cluster of 5 or 6 nodes, software, licensing, backplane/future
expansion, ethernet LAN, servers, etc.  Some of the other VPs heard far more
complicated problems. They also heard *exactly* what the sales reps had to say
about the lack of support, including what the *customers* had to say. The sales
reps often had their customers on the phone with them. You see, the RSST was
used as leverage even then to show the technical support capability of Digital.

Chick was so amazed at what he heard that he made everyone in the visiting
group get on the phones and take notes, and for those not in his immediate
entourage, he had some pointed remarks to coerce them into getting onto a
phone with a specialist.

Chick really got into it then, and started to really understand the prior
presentation of how the RSST had involved itself into the selling environment,
from answering questions to correcting the numerous XSEL/XCON errors per
quarter, to AQS corrections, to the 10 Most Asked Questions in Sales Update,
Proof reading Sales Update articles, 3rd party referral services, sales
documentation corrections, problem volume reports to marketing, product
announcement teams (remember MAYFLOWER?) etc, etc.  He was going from cube to
cube, jumping in from call to call, really excited (I didn't think then that
VPs could get that way, unless they were mad...). 

Later that evening I saw Chick, he had his staff all lined up in a hallway,
backs to the wall and was questioning each one of them individually on what
they had heard, each responded with "I heard solutions.", then he would say to
himself "...solutions...solutions...". The next day we were informed of how
well the presentation had gone, and that we would be getting an increase in
headcount, because this was the first time that they had found a group that
could deliver *solutions*. 

It was at that time that I realized how little I knew of corporate decisions,
and that they could be made on the basis of a word's definition.   You see, all
along we were reporting the number of calls or problems we were handling, had
we said the number of *solutions* we were generating, our funding problems
could possibly have been solved long before.    Afterwards, we definitely
started attending more corporate strategy meetings.

It is amazing to me that the RSST is scheduled to vanish like this. Especially
following Zereski's opening 10 minute *very praising* speech on the value of a
group like the RSST of earlier this year, when he spoke to the CSC on the
direction of the corporation.

RSST was brought on immediately following the demise of the product lines,
because the sales support for the product lines had diminished so dramatically
that something centralized was needed immediately.   Sales was in BIG trouble.
The customer support center (Joint Operations Group at that time), was
approached by the newly formed Area Management Centers, on what customer
services could deliver expeditiously due to the enormity of the problem. 

RSST was born from these needs, we were immediately over run with demand, and
it never stopped, not once in all the almost 10 years of existence ...add
capacity and watch it get consumed. 

Many changes occurred during those years, we watched the Area Management
Centers come and go, the Headquarters Support Groups, come and go, ACTs,
TPL, etc, but always the catch all was the RSST. 

I hope sincerely that there is some type of sales support lined up for the
coming transitional period, because restarting an operation like the RSST is
something that I would never consider feasible, the strength of the operation
is in the team, and not in the assembly of the thousands of database articles,
catalogs, doc sets, product files, contact lists...


Good luck to all of you in the RSST,  

- Jeff Dull

    
    RE .65
    
    I also am one of those hardware people at 800-525-7104, and while we
    may be able to fill in the slack for some of the sales reps, we are
    totally unable to assist in licensing issues. Hardware and other
    configuration information we can do, the rest we cannot.
    
    My wife volunteered for the 2nd buyout and is now working for one of
    our major distributors. They are livid at the news of the demise of RSS
    as they are paying for the service. It has been inferred that the
    calls will go to 1-800-DIGITAL instead for support. This is laughable
    as 1-800-DIGITAL has NO KNOWLEDGE in many of these areas. The
    Distributors HATE calling them for any reason as they always get the
    runaround or just never get a callback.
    
    Distributors also cannot deal with the 24-48 hours callback cycle. The
    world of distribution cannot wait for these call cycle times or they
    loose business. They need a LIVE answer or a 15 minute callback, which
    1-800-DIGITAL seems unable to deal with. I am not trying to badmouth
    the folks at 1-800-DIGITAL, but they only can do what they are trained
    to do, and what their managers emphasize.
    
    So we are taking a group of 90 some people that do an excellent job and
    have even received awards for their performance, and ash-canning them.
    They will be replaced by another group the does NOT have the proper
    knowledge and also has NO IDEA what the distribution business is like.
    
    I know many of the people in RSS Atlanta, and they have occasionally
    come to me when they had a hardware or configuration issue. These are
    some of the most dedicated people that I know, and no grass grows under
    their feet. Unless someone pulls the fat out of the fire before the
    magic date, we stand to loose some excellent and dedicated people.
    
    Someone recently made a comparison between Mr. Palmer and Frank
    Lorenzo, and I'm starting to take them seriously.
    
    MTS
       

       Anyone had any response to their mail to upper management on this
    issue? Or is there still a wall of silence?
                              Denny

    	I just was asked by a sales person in the field if there was any
    truth to the rumor of RSS being reinstated.  Anyone else out there hear
    this?  Our district mgr. is on a flight at this very moment, bound for
    Maynard, MA.
    
    	I don't have any other info!!
    
    	-VT

Yesterday I received a response to my memo posted in .14 from Russ Gullotti.
He sent a message to Bob Schmitt, U.S. Sales Support Manager, copying other 
high level U.S. Area management types asking Bob if RSS was going away and why.

Today I received a message from Bob Schmitt stating that they had re-evaluated 
the decision to shutdown the entire RSST and are now looking at consolidating 
similar functions with an end result of about a 25% reduction in staff.

There was alot of quick, direct feedback about the decision which caused the 
decision to be re-evaluated. It looks like us little people CAN make a 
difference.

Regards,

Jim

    	I just had another rep asking the same question, so maybe there is
    some substance to this rumor?

    is 1-800-DEC-SALE part of DECDirect?  Who offers technical support
    at DECDirect?  
    
    -Ed
    

    I hope the rumors of retaining RSS are true. 
    
    I can't imagine anything stupider than killing the support line for the
    sales force just at the time when our product line is being completely
    transformed. 
    
    I really liked the analogy that it's like dumping the oil from an
    engine to lighten the load. Or how about this: It's like letting the
    air out of all the tires to reduce the height.
    
    DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! DUMB! 
    
    I find myself wondering what their reasoning is for this decision:
    
    1- Is it part of an overall scenario of vastly reducing the sales
    force? (Don't need sales anymore, so we don't need support for them,
    either)
    
    2- Was it a choice between having to cut more sales people or else cut
    the RSS? 
    
    3- Did they rationalize this as being part of the job of the new field
    consultant positions that are being created, at the expense of the
    contract and admin folks? (This, by the way, seems to me to be another
    DUMB move!)
    
    I couldn't come up with anything that was rational. I can only conclude
    that insanity has set in, or that somebody panicked, big time. 
    
    Is it really so, as implied by the Guillotti memo posted a few back,
    that he DIDN'T KNOW that this group was being killed? I would have
    hoped that a decision like this would be escalated not only to him, but
    reviewed by Palmer himself, before it came to pass. Don't they know
    they will impact the lifeblood revenue stream of the company with DUMB
    moves like this?
    
    Please enlighten me on the rationale for this decision. I must be
    dense...

    
    >3- Did they rationalize this as being part of the job of the new field
    >consultant positions that are being created, at the expense of the
    >contract and admin folks? (This, by the way, seems to me to be anothe
    >DUMB move!)
    
    Huh? since when are we hiring in the field?  What do you mean?
    WHAT new consultant positions?
    
    -Ed_who_saw_fellow_consultants_get_axed_last_go-around
    
    

    
    The latest I got from a local manager here in Atlanta is that no
    manager will now admit to the decision of killing the RSS group.
    
    No matter how you analyze it, you can't make sense out of it. It was
    either a Panic Play, or a classic case of someone up north protecting
    local jobs at the expense of remote (Atlanta/Colorado Springs) jobs.
    
    Tree hugging at its finest, as is so common lately....
    
    MTS

    re: .84 
    
    If the latter (local job protection) then SOMEBODY is probably in for a
    big, unpleasant surprise during the next two weeks ...  <gulp>
    
    Steve

    re: .83
    
    These are not new-hire positions. These are administration
    positions that now combine CSRA (contracts admin) and OMS
    (order mgmt admin) into a new position. These are similar
    to SDS (sales developemnt spec) positions in that field admin
    now does all the customer pre/post work  and does *not* actually
    enter orders or administer contracts on the systems...the actual
    data entry will be handled at LSSC's (Logistics Support Service
    Centers. These new positions are called CSC's (Customer Support
    Consultants).   .....confusing, I know...
    
    pat_who_is_not_taking_CSC_position

    
                   
    
    Just read memo's from Sales Mgt saying that RSS has been saved. Not
    sure what this means. Saved for how many, how long? In speaking with
    some of the RSS people this week (I can't believe they were answering
    the phones this week, I'd been out looking for job!), some folks even
    if it is saved- they're still leaving. "Don't need to work in this
    environment!"
    
    It don't look like there's a master plan by upper mgt. Not very
    decisive mgt. Let's see:
    
    1.Couple years ago all company cars go away. Reverse decision.
    2.Bi-weekly pay. Only kidding
    3.RSS go away. Nah, let's re-evaluate.
    4.new sales "incentive" plan. 10% pay cut you get the right to earn
      back. Silly rumour going around that instead of pay cut we get
      salaries frozen for 3 yrs.
    
    I'm sure there are more examples.
    
    Happy Holidays!
    

    Where have you guys been?
    
    Admin is no longer Admin.... Transaction work will be centralized into
    several centers within the Logistics Services Support Network which the
    Customer Logistics Support Consultants are a part.  It's the new
    CUSTOMER-TO-CUSTOMER program; however, I think that "these are
    administration positions that now combine CSRA & OMS into a new
    position" is stating it rather simply.  The new Customer Logistics
    Support Consultants (for which in the Florida District there will be 10
    replacing the current OMS/CSRA contributors of many not to mention
    Accounts Receivable, District Admin, etc.) will handle much the same as
    the old SDS or Sales Administrators did "before".  All
    "transaction/Data Entry" work will be centralized.  Installed Base
    (contracts) issues will be handled by the Quality Base Management
    Organization with data entry being done in a central location.  
    
    Anyone that might be impacted by this new program should certainly
    contact their manager, FSUM or Sales UM.  They are all aware of the
    program and the transition plans (such as they are) that will and are
    taking place as we speak.
    
    Take it from one of the CSC (not to be confused with Customer Support
    Center), there's more to it than just pre-post sales.
    
    JP
    

    re:  .88
    
    cool your jets, JP  :-)   I'm in OMS, too.
    The "simply stated" description was to alleviate any new-hire
    fears expressed by .83 and also to avoid adminspeak language
    where someone (obviously) outside the organization wouldn't
    know LSSN from CAS from ASR etc, etc. 

Some pretty honest explanations are owed to the RSS people, and the rest
of the DEC employees as well.

And, as stated before, what about those that have taken job offers, sold
houses, had nervous breakdowns, etc.? What now?

Lee

    Late this afternoon I asked my manager how our DM was doing (or if
    he had heard any word).  He said nothing was definite other than the
    team that handles GIA is still "safe" for now because they are 
    funded differently (they also handle calls differently, very few
    live).
    
    One thing is for sure; the people in the field who wrote memos, made
    calls, etc. HAVE made a difference.  It is my impression that RG had
    no idea RSS was to be cut, thus our DM's sudden summons to HQ.  Our
    DM got that summons mid-morning yesterday (he was also told to get
    the d*mn recording off our call director indicating that our hours
    were now 9AM-6PM EST until Dec 11th :-)
    
    I have no basis in fact to support it, but I have a gut feeling that
    if our DM (along with the help of many friends in the field) is able
    to pull a rabbit out of a hat and RSS is saved, we'll probably still
    be down-sized.  Personally, I guess I'm now among those who don't
    know if I want to be "saved".  I've had 2 possible job offers (one
    of them with much better benefits, by the way), so after reading all
    the latest entries, to say my emotions are mixed is putting it mildly.
    I know quite a number of my co-workers also have other irons in the
    fire now; they can't afford to back off looking....quite a few are 1/2
    of double DIGIT couples.
    
    I'm very proud of RSS and my co-workers; I hope that those who truely 
    want to stay are given the chance to do so.  There haven't been any
    nervous breakdowns that I know of, but the sick time has gone through
    the roof (and this hasn't been any phoney sick-outs).  People are
    stressed to the max, but then I know that isn't a syndrome that is
    unique to RSS :-(
    
    To the person who asked; yes, we are still working the phones and
    providing support as best we can....in fact before our DM left, he
    pretty much said in a memo that we are committed to answering the
    phones until the 11th and he expected us to continue doing so....
    business as usual _read_ conduct yourselves as professionals.
    
    I can't believe the number of calls I've handled today that were from
    field people not requesting assistance, but just calling to see if we
    had heard of any status changes and to lend their support.
    
    
    Karen
    

      <<< Note 2242.81 by FORTSC::CHABAN "Pray for Peter Pumpkinhead!" >>>

    is 1-800-DEC-SALE part of DECDirect?  Who offers technical support
    at DECDirect?  
    

Different organizations entirely.  DECdirect technical assistance doesn't talk 
to us employee types.

    Re .all
    
    Now let's see if the "Accountability" message that Bob Palmer
    emphasized over the DVN means anything or is just hot air. I'll only
    feel happy when
    
    	a) It is made known who came up with the ridiculous decision in the
    	   first place.
    
    	b) That that person is now a former Digital employee and they
    	   didn't get a juicy severance package.
    
    Let's see if the "no excuses" management words actually mean anything.
    For the companies sake I hope they do.
    
    If people actually start seeing some of the idiots that make these
    ridiculous decisions get fired I think morale will improve
    dramatically.
    
    The fact that Russ Gullotti wasn't even aware RSS was going away says a
    lot. I hope the person his staff directly responsible for this pays the
    price. I reckon this could already have host DEC revenue in lost
    confidence on the part of our distributors.
    
    DIGITAL.NOTE proves its worth once again. Wonder if anybody will try to
    shut it down. As usual the "sunshine" method of information
    dissemination wins out and leads to the right decision. It's much
    harder for poor decisions to remain made when they're exposed to such a
    wide audience.
    
    Dave

    
    Was RSS ever really going away to begin with or was this whole
    *incident* nothing more than a rumor gone hog-wild?
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob
    

    Re .94:

    Bob, it was/is for real...  No joke.  Personally I wouldn't consider it
    a rumor (or joke) if my manager came up and told me my job was gone. 
    This subj, and repercussions are for real.

    Jim Morton

Gullotti has only been on the job for about a week, right?  It's probably
not surprising that he wouldn't have been aware of this...most headcount
decisions were made a few weeks back.

Kind of reminds one of Kennedy and the Bay of Pigs...but hopefully with a
happier ending. %-}

								paul

    
    I realize I'll likely get flamed for saying this, but...
    
    It seems to me that the DECDirect technical support group and RSS
    do much of the same thing.  I'd say they are logical candidates for 
    consolidation.
    
    My suggestion would be to elimate the overhead by combining the two
    groups and eliminating *MANAGEMENT* positions made redundant by such 
    a merger.
    
    Hey, we may have succeeded in saving RSS, but we *FAILED* to reduce
    costs.
    
    My $.02
    

    re: 93
    
    The answer to who made the decision to downsize RSS is very simple.  It 
    was made by a member of the US Area management team, who happens to have 
    been named in an earlier note.  See the note regarding the response to
    .14 memo. I'll leave it at that.
    
    I will also say that I personally raised this issue to my immediate
    management the week of 11/23, which was much to their surprise.  The
    issue was then escalated to the AGM and Area VP who requested a
    response from the US Area management team on why a stupid decision
    to outsize RSS was being made and the impact to us in the field.  I'm 
    sure this, coupled with the input from the rest of the field has made 
    people think at HQ that a mistake was being made.  I'll be sure to give 
    the credit to Russ G. and the rest of us grunts for having the guts to 
    make a statement and have some respect for senior management (in this 
    case, Russ G.), if in fact the decision is to rescind RSS layoff.
    
    What baffles me the most about this whole debacle is that back in the
    March/April timeframe a survey was sent to about 1000 Sales Support
    individuals across the US.  In this survey we were asked to provide
    and chart down to 1/2 hour increments what we did on the job over a 
    2 week period. In addition, we were asked to outline what made our
    jobs difficult and what made them easier/more efficient.  To get to
    the point, there were over 200 responses received and a good report
    was issued outlining what was working and what wasn't and requested
    improvements.  Guess what scored consistently in the top 3 for
    efficiency, makes my job easier, valuable resource, YUP it was 
    1-800-DEC-SALE.  Copies of the report were widely published.  Guess
    who sponsored the survey, US Sales Support.  Any questions???
    
    
    

    
    Re: .94   <<< Note 2242.94 by POBOX::RILEY "I *am* the D.J." >>>
    
    > Was RSS ever really going away to begin with or was this whole
    > *incident* nothing more than a rumor gone hog-wild?
    > "jackin' the house", Bob
    
    Put it this way Bob,  When the whole department is called into a
    meeting and told Point blank that the "whole department" Is being
    TFSO'd, and we had till Dec 11 to work.  I would not call that a rumor. 
    I would call that "Time to Start looking for a new job".
    
    In referrence to a previous Note on Palmer's no excuse management deal. 
    If we are saved,  I too would expect to see heads roll over this
    incident.  You can't just say oops over something like this,, the
    morale in our gruop has not been at its best and theres been much
    anguish over the tfso news.  So saying sorry wont cut it.  How ever I
    do commend our DM for being up front with us,  that is a quality not
    seen lately around DEC.  I know other gruops in the building whom are
    absolutely in the dark about what will happen to them.  In a sense,
    although knowing can cause pain, not knowing can cause emotional
    breakdowns.
    
    There is a great deal of stress, while you want to continue to do your
    job and continue to help the sales force and distributors, one also
    worries about finding a new job.  It still holds true that it is easier
    to find a job while still employed,  but gets considerably worse
    looking for a job when you are unemployed.
    
    If it turns out we do get saved.  I too want to thank all of you whom
    took the time to post your good thoughts here in this conference and
    all whom took time to write letters to VPs such as .14 and others have.
    
    Thank You!
    
    Regards,
    
    Edgar.
     

    
    Was it *REALLY* Bob Schmitt's idea?
    
    

    RE: .93 Yeah Dave, and I hope the next time that you make a mistake
    that you get fired.  
    
    
    Mike
    

    Re .-1
    
    If I made a mistake of that magnitude I'd EXPECT to be fired. The
    company simply cannot afford any more "revenue hostile" acts.
    
    Dave

>    RE: .93 Yeah Dave, and I hope the next time that you make a mistake
>    that you get fired.  

	There are mistakes and there are mistakes. I'm not sure that who 
	ever caused to RSS to be closed should be fired but it should be
	a serious bad mark on their record. If there are other such marks
	firing may be called for. But it is obvious to me that this is not
	something that should look good on their next review. :-)

	And some manager will have to look on the concequences of what has
	happened here. Is it causing us to lose good people that we need? Is
	it causing us to lose important business? Is it causing a serious morale
	problem to become worse? Someone will have to judge if this is a serious
	enough a mistake to warrent termination, demotion, or something else.
	But ignoring it would be as serious a mistake as over reaction.

			Alfred

    
    Dave, 
    
    I was a little harsh, sorry.  The problem I have is not knowing the
    whole story behind the decision.  Getting this information, perhaps I
    may agree with you, but until then I have to reserve judgement.  
    
    
    
    Mike

    Well,
    
    I have waited as long as I could before responding again.  Let me shed
    some light. Nov 23rd we were told we had a mandatory meeting the next
    day.  In CXO we had all 21 of us and personnel, and in Atlanta they had
    the other ~70 people and personnel.  At 10:15 MST our DM told us that
    our last day working the phones will be Dec. 11th.  Our official
    notification (TAP) date is Dec. 14th and Friday the 18th we would no
    longer have a job.  
    
    I can tell you there were several reactions to this con-call.  Some
    were pissed, some were in total dis-belief, some were actually
    relieved.  On Monday the 30th there was a internal memo, which I have
    no permission to post or I would.  This memo basically stated that the
    Remote Sales Support (RSS) group will be TFSO'd.  This memo went on to
    state how many calls 1-800-DEC-SALE took and who would now field these
    calls. 
    
    On Dec. 1st. we got a memo from our DM to hang on, there might be help
    in the wings!  As you are aware enought people *MADE* a difference. 
    False hope???
    
    On Dec. 2 we see the note from Jim Mickol that states percentages.  Now
    my DM is meeting with the powers-to-be today.  What would this meeting
    be about, if the percentages are already in place.  Someone up top is
    flipping coins at the expense of me and my family.
    
    Smnall picture fillows:
    
    Monday Nov, 23rd	Get ready for tommorrow
    Tuesday Nov. 24th	Your are now offically TFSO'd
    Tuesday Dec. 1st	Did we make a mistake, maybe your TFSO'd maybe not
    .....
    .....
    .....
    Still waiting!!!    Not sure about many folks out there, but I don't
    appreciate Digital telling me and my family my future via NOTES. 
    Nothing against you Jim Mickol, I appreciate your responses.  
    
    Well sorry for so windy.  Now to the beef!  I had already planned on
    getting TFSO'd.  I have a job offer and went to Texas and put a
    contract down on a house.  What now. I am not the only one in this
    group who has problems with this roller coaster ride.  I am bitter.  I
    agree my UM and DM are giving me info. when they know, but DEC isn't
    giving me anything but an ulcer for there roller coaster ride.
    
    I can't even start to explain to you what it is doing to my wife and
    three kids.  I tell my wife she has to sell her business, she does.  I
    tell my kids to tell their friends  that we are gone.  They
    all cry!  No I go home and tell my wife, I sure wish you didn't sell
    your business, cause we might need this to live on.  I tell my kids to
    go back to school and tell their friends we might just still be here. 
    I tell my relatives, friends, neighbors, etc... that I might be here??
    
    I can't speak for anyone in my group, but I was relieved that I would
    now be unshackled from this non-personell company that it has turned
    out to be.  March will/would be 15 yrs. for me.  I saw the old DEC as
    the BEST company in the world.  I won't even tell my friends,... that I
    now work for DEC.  
    
    Not whining, but where's my relief??
    
    Glenn 
                                                  

    
    
    re:97
    
       That kind of thinking is exactly what was behind the decision to
    tfso rss. We do not do the same function as decdirect. We've had a
    pilot program for the last 2 weeks to send Hamilton Avnet to dec-
    direct instead of helping them, most called back and said decdirect
    was unable to answer their questions.
    
    
    
      I'd also like to believe it was the flood of calls and mail that 
    changed the decision, but I don't believe that it was. This past
    Tuesday the CEO of Hamilton Avnet, our largest distributor met with
    BP. They have a contract to call 1-800-DECSALE till June and were
    very upset that the contract was being broken.
    
      It's obvious that DEC doesn't care about their own reps and that they 
    can get the info they need internally. My cut is that in June, when the
    contracts are up for the Distributors, there will be no remote sales.
    
    
      PKB
    
    
    

RE: .103

>>	a serious bad mark on their record. If there are other such marks

	That scares most folks in DEC about as much as it did in high
	school when one got caught under the bleachers doing something
	they shouldn't have..

	"That will go on your PERMANENT RECORD Mr. Foley!"

							mike

    re: .105
    
    At least you are headed for the right state! :-)
    
    Since you don't have permission to post the memo, would you please tell
    us, in your words, where the sales reps and others were expected to get
    the support that your group now provides?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

	RE: .107 I guess that I am hoping that under Bob Palmer that ones
	previous screw ups will mean something. And of course that threat
	didn't bother you because you were, I assume, in a public school.
	In a private one you might very well have feared that you'd get
	tossed out. I'm hoping that Digital is going to the private school
	model of making people accountable for their actions.

			Alfred

    
     I don't remember the note number, but, we were told that the sales
    reps would get help at the local level (yeah right, who's left??)
    and the distributors were to call decdirect tcc.
    
    
    

Let me see if I get this right...

Tuesday Nov. 24th       You find out you are TFSO'd effective Dec 14.
Thur, Dec 3rd           Post note .105

Ten days between the two.

In that ten days, you accepted? a job in Texas, went to Texas, selected
a house and wrote a contract on it? Your wife sold her business and you
have made departing comments to friends, neighbors?

Well done!

On the other hand, maybe you spent more than ten days doing this and
DEC's surprize layoff announcement of 1-800-DEC_SALE didn't come as soon
as expected....

Look, I sympathize with the stress and anguish that you and everybody else
are going through but let's not push it too far, ok?   At least you got a
job.

Re: firing the guilty

Those of you that think firing is too harsh please read .105 and think again.

DEC has jacked this poor person and family to the point of moving to another
state, sold their business, etc. and now DEC shrugs and says "Sorry, we
were only pretending"??

Lee

    Let us not forget that the reason the upper managers are paid the big
    bucks is that they are supposed to avoid doing stupid things.  It's
    okay for upper managers to do smart things, but that's not what they
    are paid for.  It's okay for grunts to do stupid things, since grunts are 
    paid to do lots of smart things.  We earn our pay by proving that we do
    lots of smart things.  That's easy.  It's harder for an upper manager
    to prove that no stupid things were done, which is one reason they are
    paid so much.
    
    Now, it is quite possible for no upper manager's head to roll.  It all
    depends on how well the manager can prove that nothing stupid was done.
    
    Steve

    re .113
    
    Steve,
    
    Something stupid WAS done!  When decisions are made in the absence of
    available informations (like salesmen depend on RSS to cover up the
    failures of sales administration), that is stupid.  A manager who makes
    a decision that some part of the organization is superfluous had better
    have learned all s/he can about the organization in question.  It is
    clear that the dependence of the sales force on RSS was misunderstood.
    That constitutes "something stupid" in my book.
    
    I only hope that the spin doctors can't cover up the stupidity like
    they cover up our administrative failures.
    
    Dick

    The official word from our management was that the Digital sales reps 
    would get support at the local level and that Distributors would go to the 
    TCC (DecDirect).
    
    Nanci (a sometime member of the "Now you see 'em, now you don't RSS")

    
    Re:.106
    
    OK, then maybe the DECDirect group should get hit.  
    
    Folks, let's not forget what BP said.  When we bitch and moan about a
    bad decision and ask for it to be reversed, OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE!!!!
    
    I have seen no cost saving alternative discussed here NONE, ZIP, NADA
    ZERO!!!!  If everyone was more concerned about fixing our financial 
    situation and less involved in playing the anus-protectus game, we 
    might get a more positive action out of the idiots at the top!!
    
                                                        
    -Ed

    RE: .114 "failures of sales administration"
    
    or perhaps the failures of sales that they like to blame on
    administration.  I'm sorry, but we in admin are sick of being the
    scapegoats.  Sure we make mistakes, but so does everyone so lighten up.
    
    
    Mike

All this talk of firing people does NOT solve the problem. The person 
taking over may make the same or more severe mistake.

Let's show that some of our TQM, Six Sigma, Continouous Improvement
training has worked.

Problems are caused by the PROCESS about 95% of the time and by
PEOPLE/SPECIAL CAUSES 5% of the time, according to Dr. Deming.

So, instead of firing the "guilty party", let's do some causal 
analysis and determine the root cause of the problem -- and change
the process to eliminate the root cause...

Remote Sales Support has been saved.  Below is a memo, including a message from
Bob Schmitt, that DELTA is sending to all who contacted DELTA with their
concerns.

Paul


From:	NAME: JAMES PITTS @MLO              
	FUNC: Corporate Quality               
	TEL: 223-5946                         <PITTS.JAMES AT A1 at Memit1 at MLO>
To:     See Below

        Please prepare and send out the following message to all authors 
        that expressed their concerns about Remote Sales Support.
        
        Please send this out immediately after 12 noon today ... Thanks
        
        					Jim
        
        **************************************************************
        
        The attached decision is a direct result of your feedback.  It 
        demonstrates the power of our collective voices in making policy 
        at Digital.
        
        We in DELTA encourage you to continue to be involved in improving 
        Digital's business performance with your ideas and participation 
        in improvement activities.  Please continue to use CALL DELTA at 
        DTN 223-IDEA and send ideas electronically to IDEAS CENTRAL @OGO.
        
        To learn more about the many and different ways you can get 
        involved, check VTX DELTA.  You will be delighted to see how 
        others are contributing to Digital's success.
        
        Thank you for "Making A Difference" through your involvement.
        
        					DELTA


Author:	JAMES PITTS @MLO              
Date:	03-Dec-1992
Posted-date: 03-Dec-1992
Subject: Remote Sales Support

  ***********************************************************************
  
 To: All Sales and Sales Support Managers
 
 From : BOB SCHMITT, U.S. SALES SUPPORT MANAGER, DTN 264-5662 
 
 SUBJ: REMOTE SALES SUPPORT (1-800-DEC-SALE) 
 
        **** Please share this message with all field employees ***
   
   A decision was recently announced to close Remote Sales Support in
   the U.S. Area. 
   
   Feedback from the U.S. field organization, product management, and 
   many other organizations is that Remote Sales Support is an integral
   part of the support infrastructure which saves the field selling 
   time, and allows them to spend more time with customers.  
   We have heard from scores of people about the responsiveness and 
   effectiveness of this organization. 
   
   We have listened to your concerns and plan to retain the Remote Sales 
   Support group, because you view them as providing a valuable set of 
   support services.
   
   It is a tribute to the quality and importance of the work performed 
   by Remote Sales Support, that so many people took the time to let 
   us know how much the function was appreciated and needed.
   
   Regards,
   
   Bob

I realize the need to reduce DEC's expenses quickly is critical. However not even the
current savings through the supply chain effort occurred without
analysis.  Therefore;

1) Take 3 months and complete a structured analysis on how Sales & partners gain
   support today, what changes are occuring within DEC strategy and the
   industry and how these changes relate to the support infrastructure 
   and how competitors, partners and others provide support.

2) Take a month to create the support infrastructure of tomorrow.

3)  Take another month and devise a plan which will lead us from where we
    are today to where we must be based on above.

4)  Communicate plan and begin implementation.

Again, not a short term solution however I believe the only one which will
give DEC a fighting chance to compete in today's and tomorrow's world.

LIR

    re .119
    
    It was nice of them to let you know before *we* had official word!  :-)
    
    It'll be interesting to see what the message will be from our
    management.
    
    Nanci

re: .119
   
>   A decision was recently announced to close Remote Sales Support in

The famous "management-speak" passive voice.  "It was decided", etc., vs.
"I decided" or "Fred Flinstone in Planning decided".

If BP is serious about accountability, he should immediately ban all
responsibility-hiding passive voice constructions in every communication
from management!  Grrrr...

								paul

    I have been reading this Notesfile with much interest, but nowhere have I 
seen any mention of the 5 forgotten members of RSS that are in Littleton.
Let me introduce ourselves. We where the former PCSGLINE (phone number 
226-2511). Our role was to support the Sales force, Sales support reps VAR's
DEC-Direct PC-BY-DEC as well as many other internal support groups including
RSS, CTS, CSC organizations. Our PC Support Line was formed to provide a 
buffer between sales/support groups and the PC and PCI integration 
engineering group. Because of budgetary constraints, the Support Line was 
targeted in July 1992 for termination.
    Well we where saved in the last 5 minutes, reorganized, and became part 
of RSS. Here we are December 11 and TFSOd again. I do not think that my 
Ulcer can take it a third time.
    I hope that the Support Line has been some help to you Folks out their
and that some of you still remember us. I have done my job with pride and 
loved it (most of the time). 

Auf Wiedersehen

Greta,

P.S. Karen Reese, I enjoyed your replies and in many of your statements you 
took the words right out of my mouth.

    
    
    Re: .120
    
    I agree that change must be made intelligently.  What I am concerned
    about is the truth being lost in "process".
    
    I recieved a copy of the survey mentioned earlier.  I did not respond.
    Why? I was being asked for *RAW DATA* (hours spent, etc.) which could
    be (and was) poorly interpreted.
    
    The field is *NEVER* asked the simple question: "What support programs,
    organiziations etc. could you live without?"  
    
    Simple, done, finito, fertig!
    
    Clearly, some will say they need everything, but we must press the 
    issue.  Heck, we make choices like this in our personal life every day.
    
    -Ed
    
    
    
    
    

    
    RE 97 and 106
    
    This is exactly what I was saying in my previous message. My wife works
    for Avnet, and refuses to even call Decdirect. They simply do NOT
    have the skill set required to support distributors. This would
    probably take 6 months or more to gear up, and what do the Distributors
    do during that "Learning Curve" period, just let their business go to
    hell. Companies like Avnet, Pioneer, Wyle sell one HELL of a lot of DEC
    equipment and services. We should be bending over backwards to give 
    these people ANYTHING they need, not putting road blocks in their way.
    
    DECdirect and DECsale just might be able to be merged, but rational
    logic tells you to take the best people from both groups and create the
    new organization with them. You don't ashcan one organization just
    because its easier then weeding out the redundancies of both. If you 
    looked hard enough, you can probably find FAT in just about any  
    organization, and that is what needs to be gotton rid of.
    
    MTS

  
  re:125

 > We should be bending over backwards to give 
   > these people ANYTHING they need, not putting road blocks in their way.
    
   
   We can't bend over backwards yet, we're still in the prone position
from all the s*** that's going on.

PKB

    
    Re: .125
    
    I think that's what I said, no?
    
    

    re: .120
    
    This is exactly the approach I expected to see after Oct. 1.  
    
    Unfortunately, I am still waiting.  I am both amazed and dissapointed
    that the actions taken during this quarter have not represented a
    major change in the way we handle things internally.  I am concerned
    that cutbacks are still taking place with what appears to be a complete
    lack of business management practices.  I am not generally a pesimistic
    person, however, it appears that we are still in the "spiral" mentioned
    in earlier notes.  
    
    A few observations that tend to support the above:
    
    	1) As stated elsewhere, why are we so silent about Alpha AXP?
    		I am amazed that we don't have a major AND effective
    		PR campaign implemented yet... 
    
    	2) Why is internal communication non-existant?  No messages about
    		vision, strategy, org charts, goals.  No messages about
    		how we get "there", where ever that may be.
    		(At LEAST we have this conference...for now.)  And Supply
    		Chain is NOT the answer.  At least not yet.  The last
    		memo and schedule spoke to manufacturing only.
    
    	3) Why haven't we seen drastic actions from senior mgmt/board?
    		Remeber when Lee I. took over Chrysler?  He and his mgmt
    		team reduced each of their salaries to $1/yr, until the
    		"problems" were fixed.  This gave everyone (both employees
    		and jane/john doe public) the impression that he/they were
    		SERIOUS about turning the company around, and doing what
    		needed to be done to acheive their corporate goals?
    
    	4) Mid-level mgmt appears to be paralyzed.  I have first hand 
    		knowledge of at least one group that is forcing it's 
    		line managers to implement current expense policies
    		in situations which clearly cost Digital MORE money
    		than necessary, rather than be the "source" of an
    		exception...every member of this group travels 
    		frequently.  (a small point, but still ridiculous)
    	
    	Instead of "re-engineering" the company from the Customer back,
    	we are still "making cuts, to make numbers"...is this just
    	my perception?  I don't see alot of positive news listed here.
    	When that great Alpha note was entered, you could almost hear
    	people cheer.  
    
    	I've read the opinions that fall along the lines of "It took 
    	DEC a long time to get here, it will take a long time to fix."
    	That may or may not be true, but it shouldn't take a long time
    	to start seeing signs of progress.  How about a list of 
    	actions taken that have had positive results?
    

    A suggestion:

    The RIGHT THING (sound familiar?) to do for the folks at RSS at this
    point, is to give them each a choice to either take TFSO, if they want
    it, or to stay, if they don't. Since they were notified by their
    managers, with personnel present and lots of witnesses, that their jobs
    were to be eliminated, it seems that they have been harmed, if they
    acted in good faith on this information and it doesn't happen. However,
    there will be some, perhaps most, who would prefer to stay on.

    I predict that the result of this incident will be that managers are
    given even stricter orders in the future to not disclose potential, but
    not yet final (as in actually being TFSO'd), reductions in force. They
    will not feel they can take the risk of being open with their people,
    for fear of the consequences, if things should change before they
    become final. As chaotic as things have become, they can almost be
    assured that *something* in the mix WILL change before things are final
    in these cases.

    Rich (Who is hoping that RSS is retained for the long term because I'm
    in sales and find them VERY helpful)
    

    I just read a memo that indicates the decision has been reversed.  Is
    this true?

Re: .130

read back a few notes...

Re: .129

Your predictions are pretty much right on.

What was actually needed was an honest message to the field saying 'We
are strongly considering eliminating XYZ group'. Yes, the group would
have to go through the sufferiung of knowing that *maybe* their jobs
might go, but then the important feedback would get up the chain before
making the TFSO 'a done deal' only to be reversed.

This entire episode is one dismal example of the lack of communication
within DEC.... someone(s) had *no idea* how valuable this function was to
DEC.... how many other cuts are being made without knowing the full
impact?

Lee

    My manager claims to have spoken to Bob Schmidt, U.S. Sales Support
    Manager, who allegedly said that the RSS elimination decision has been
    reversed. Has anyone else heard this?

RE: .116
 
>>    Folks, let's not forget what BP said.  When we bitch and moan about a
>>    bad decision and ask for it to be reversed, OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE!!!!
  
OK, how about firing the lowest ranking 90 ASM's.  Or the worst 90 sales
reps. Or...., but you get the picture.

Don't penalize EVERY rep and EVERY sales support person because somebody
wanted a convenient TFSO target.  

The point is that there appears to be NO rational plan as to which groups 
are hit and to what extent this will effect revenue.

Bob

    Re: .134
    
    Great idea!
    
    Try submitting something like *THAT* to DELTA!
    
    ;-)
    

    Could some moderator change the title of this note say by adding a:
    
    - decision reversed
    
    or something.
    
    Dave

    re: .136
    
    How's that?
    
    Bob

    Re: .129   -< Do the RIGHT THING! >-
            
 >  A suggestion:
 >
 >  The RIGHT THING (sound familiar?) to do for the folks at RSS at this
 >  point, is to give them each a choice to either take TFSO, if they want
 >  it, or to stay, if they don't. Since they were notified by their
 >  managers, with personnel present and lots of witnesses, that their jobs
 >  were to be eliminated, it seems that they have been harmed, if they
 >  acted in good faith on this information and it doesn't happen. However,
 >  there will be some, perhaps most, who would prefer to stay on.
    
    
    I'm sorry about the length of the following, but I believe in the
    freedom to speak our minds
    
    Flame on:
    
    We "RSS" were called to a meeting today 12/3 at about 2:30 and were
    confirmed on what we already knew via the Notes files.  Seems notes are
    faster than management.
    
    We were told RSS was "Saved" no garantees where given as to the future
    of RSS.  We are Ok for now, no telling if we'll have an instant replay
    six months from now, at which time there may not be any packages.  Now,
    further we are told that we would still be participating in the TFSO's
    at a certain percentage,  When we asked about the percentage number,
    the answer was, not at liberty to discuss.  When we ask about the
    package for any future TFSO, answer was, "no consideration was given".
    
    When we asked whom made the decision. Answer Was. "Some bean counters
    in a back room".  There will be no repercussions to the guilty party. 
    Now no one wants the honor of the decision, no one person is
    resposible.  It's back to business as usual.  Personnel whom also
    assisted in this meeting said that we had been told as an FYI and that
    things could change from day to day.  What kind of good decision making
    changes from day to day.  Sounds more like trial and error scenario.
    
    Much damage was caused, Now it's like give thanks for your jobs, we
    saved at least 75% of you from being unemployed.  Many of us made
    decisions based on that information, had to set our mind to accept a
    what looked like unreversable decision, and plan to continue our lives
    after DEC.  Now there are many people here whom are happy with the news
    and others that are devastated by the news.  For the happy ones it is
    ok, they probably had no plan of what to do next.  But, for those whom
    got ready and took care of business to straigten out their lives.  It's
    like we "DEC" don't care, find away to undo it.
    
    I agree with .229, DEC should do the right thing, if they cared
    enough to.  That DEC is long gone.  Now many who planned will be hurt
    by this decision.  Volunteers are not allowed.  If they let people
    volunteer they would most likely lose 3 fourths of the group.
    
    As to BP, He promised us "No Excuse Management".  There seem to be alot
    fo excuses and cover up here.  Talk about politics,  The grunts make
    mistakes and get canned, higher ups make mistakes and get promoted to
    other jobs. "talk about two faced".
    
    How is it they are allowed to play with peoples lives and emotions in
    such a manner.  Is there anyone out there that is anywhere around BP
    that can make him aware of the excuses being thrown around.  Now that
    the ____ hit the fan, no one owns up to such a major decision.
    
    Solution: "What .229 suggested should be forced by BP"
    
    They should be forced to do the right thing!  Let my people go!
    
    Allow all whom would leave to leave and all whom would stay to stay,
    take your lumps for your actions.
    
    People here took actions in good faith, being confident the jobs would
    go away as we were told (The were no if's ands or buts) , So honor your
    words to those whom would still choose to leave.
    
    By the way, the forgotten 5 in PCI Littleton were not saved, they had
    been moved back to their original cost center and will be TFSO
    casualties.
    
    Flame off:
    
    I felt I had to say something.  I can't stand injustice "talk about a
    huge grain of salt"
    
    Edgar.
    
                      

    >                                                         for those whom
    > got ready and took care of business to straigten out their lives.  It's
    > like we "DEC" don't care, find away to undo it.
    
    I think they should SUE.

Perhaps a followup to Russ G. will allow you the option of taking the 
package.   Given the nature of your management chain, I doubt he is aware 
of your feelings.

If this note demonstrated anything, it demonstrated that "The right thing"
can be accomplished with a little common sense communicated at the right
levels of the fiefdom.

Bob

re: .138


>>    When we asked whom made the decision. Answer Was. "Some bean counters
>>    in a back room".

If this is indeed true, them my worst suspicions are true.  There IS NO PLAN
involved in these layoffs, other than to lop off enough heads of individual
contributors to make a target number.  There continues to be NO consideration
to improving revenue.

Bob

    The lack that no manager takes responsibility for this decision/
    non-decision is a proof point that it's the same old Digital.
    
    At least in the famous flap of OSF/1 support of DECstations in
    April/May 1992, David Stone took the responsibility for making the
    decision that was reversed.  Of course, David Stone left Digital
    recently.

    ref: .131
    
>         how many other cuts are being made without knowing the full
>  impact?
    
    Excellent question.
    
    I just read .119 and the decision to keep RSS.  Too bad that such
    a visible and obviously valuable function was not adequately recognized
    by the upper ranks.
    
    Back to the question posed in .131.  I and one other person are the
    only two remaining members of a corporate technical support team 
    within a PCU that is getting Digital into a relatively new and growing
    market.  Much of our work has been similar to what the RSS group has
    been doing on a very large scale.  Filling in the cracks and closing
    gaps is very familiar territory.   We've been told we're on the Dec. 7
    list.  We don't have the visibility of RSS, so I don't expect any last
    minute reprieve.  Lots of complex but viable opportunities will be
    dropping into the cracks.  ie. revenue will be lost and/or more 
    expensive to get.
    
    Bob

    Edgar - 
    
    I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Personally, it's to my advantage to
    stick it out with DEC until June at least.  However, I can't help but
    feel a lot of empathy for my team members who found other jobs, made
    commitments to moving, etc. based on the information given when our
    TFSO was announced.  As far as I'm concerned, DEC should "do the right
    thing" and give these people the option of the package.  Unfortuantely,
    corporate legal doesn't consider the package "official" until you have
    a one-on-one with personell and actually sign the papers.  Funny, it
    sounded awfully official to me.
    
    In our meeting yeterday we were shouted at by our district manager when
    one of the team members attempted to bring up the fact that the effect
    this fiasco has had on team morale was severe and that performance may
    be impacted.  
    
    I came to Digital 6 years ago and the company earned my respect and 
    loyalty.  However, after the last year or so, that confidence has been
    slowly erroded.  And after the past week and a half...I feel almost no
    loyalty at all towards Digital.  After all, the message is now loud and
    clear.  Digital's philosophy is "do the right thing...for Digital and
    to hell with the little people who may get in the way".
    
    Now, switching gears a bit I want to thank all of the Remote Sales
    customers, sales reps and distributors, who let us know in no uncertain
    terms that the service we provide is valued and that we do make a
    difference.  You are the greatest and, if for no other reason, I will
    personally commit to continue the level of service to the best of my 
    ability in order to say thank you for all of the support you've shown us.
    
    
    From the bottom of my heart,
    Thank you.
    
    Nanci
     

>    thing" and give these people the option of the package.  Unfortuantely,
>    corporate legal doesn't consider the package "official" until you have
>    a one-on-one with personell and actually sign the papers.  

What corporate legal does and does not consider 'official' may be totally
irrelevant in court.

>    In our meeting yeterday we were shouted at by our district manager when
>    one of the team members attempted to bring up the fact that the effect
>    this fiasco has had on team morale was severe and that performance may
>    be impacted.  
 
	What did he/she shout at you?

			Alfred

    From what I could tell, he shouted at us because he didn't want to hear 
    that the team was angry about how all of this had happened and that team 
    morale was suffering as a result.  For some reason the powers that be
    expected that once the decision was reversed, everything would be
    automatically put back the way it had been before.  They didn't count
    on the fact that people's lives had changed since the TFSO was
    announced.  In my opinion, his attitude was totally unprofessional
    for someone in a management position, particularly an upper management
    position.  He is our district manager.
    
    Nanci

    I am also interested in what the DM shouted.
    
    			Elizabeth

>    thing" and give these people the option of the package.  Unfortuantely,
>    corporate legal doesn't consider the package "official" until you have
>    a one-on-one with personell and actually sign the papers.  

If only we had such luxury when dealing with customers!!!

Scenario:

Customer: You (DEC) told us that XYZ would run on platform ABC... we
          went out and signed purchase orders to buy ABC's.

DEC:      You should have waited until we actually delivered XYZ until
          ordering your ABC's. Sorry.

Customer: But now we are obligated to buy the ABC's!!!

DEC:      Some bean counter made the decision on XYZ. Sorry.


Shouldn't we treat our employees at least as well as our customers?

    This could set a precedent for the litmus test to see what groups get
    hacked.  Announce that a group is about to get hacked.  If nobody
    complains, out it goes.  If other groups rally, keep them.  This could
    be a good way to detect which groups are valued within a company.
    It means that the company as a whole takes part in the decisions.
    It has already proven to be a (the?) way to influence the decisions of
    upper-management.
    
    I remember something Paul Kinzelman told me about how to be successful
    doing things at Digital.  As some of you know, he spearheaded the
    no-smoking policy at Digital.  It was my pleasure to work with him and
    others to invoke recent changes at DCU.  The secret?  
    
    	"You need a lot of people."
    
    That's what notes and electronic media do.  These allow a lot of people
    at Digital to become informed of the issues and to act quickly and
    as a group to "do the right thing."
    
    This is not a problem for competent management.  It is a resource.  
    We can still "do the right thing" at Digital.  But, we have to do it as 
    a group.  The idea that we can rely on any one upper-level manager to be 
    informed enough and objective enough to make all the decisions and always 
    "do the right thing" is, IMO, an out-of-date concept.  But, the idea of 
    Deccies as a whole being informed, "doing the right thing" and causing 
    significant and productive change in the company is a very real
    and thriving concept that must be continually nurtured and exploited.
    
    Steve

    Nanci,
    
    You have also made a lot of good points.  Physically, I've been a
    mess since yesterday....and I'm having a lot of trouble with the final
    message that was presented by the PR folks. I think I'm fairly per-
    ceptive and I took our first meeting to be a preliminary "warning"
    meeting and appreciated the fact that we were forewarned.  The second
    meeting (that same week) it was indicated that the cuts would be deeper
    and that "the situation was changing hourly".  We came in the following
    week and were told the entire district was history.
    
    The message on 1-800-DEC-SALE was then changed to inform all callers
    the the group was being disbanded and all support would cease 11 DEC
    92 <---- that does this sound preliminary or tentative? NOT!!
    
    Don't get me wrong; I also believe DEC-SALE is a valuable resource and
    I've been overwhelmed by the number of reps who called in not seeking
    assistance, but just to say they were glad the group was saved and to
    see how we were all doing....some reps started calling after they had
    heard the message had been removed from the call director mid morning
    1 DEC.
    
    I am truely happy for the members of my group who want to (or feel 
    they can carry on); the relief was visible on many faces....so for
    those teammates, I'm happy.  I feel as though I'm in a state of sus-
    pended animation, .......B/P going through the roof, pains down my
    left arm and I barely slepted a wink last night.  You see, I had really
    started to come to terms with the 11th being my last day on the phones.
    I felt a sense of *peace* and closure.  I felt that I'd given DEC my
    best shot for a lot of years, but it was time to move on and do some-
    thing else; perhaps something less stressful.  Now I just don't feel
    anything....
    
    As Nanci did before me, I would also like to thank all the wonderful
    reps who called in and then pitched in and "got busy"; you've pulled
    a lot of butts out of the fire.  I also want to thank those in this
    conference who have lent their support, both in the conference itself
    and off-line; it enabled me to keep putting one foot in front of the
    other (ya'll know who you are) :-) 
    
    Karen
    

    "Do the Right Thing" has become as meaningless as "People are our best
    asset" at Digital.  Both of these slogans represent an idealogy that is
    effectively dead in this company, and I doubt that either will ever 
    again bear any special significance to Digital employees.
    
    Bob Palmer made a big deal about accountability ... here's a good test
    of how much he means it.  "Bean counters in a back room" indeed ... if
    his administration cannot identify the person or persons who made a
    decision of this magnitude, then his credibility is as worthless as
    that of so many of the vice-presidents around him, and his programs
    will be just as ineffective as theirs have been.
    
    You can talk the pretty talk all you like, but if you don't back it up
    with action, people stop believing what you say.  Many of us learned
    this the hard way last year, with the New Open Door Policy.  This
    business of accountability is just more of the same ... a smokescreen
    of nice, feel-good words meant to sooth the masses.  To the folks at
    the top it doesn't mean squat ... they're gonna continue to make sure
    somebody else pays for their bad decisions.
    
    From where I sit, these layoffs are being handled about as sensibly as
    if someone were trying to perform brain surgery with a chainsaw ...
    with similarly lethal results (IMO) to the health of the patient.  I'm
    not sure anymore who's the lucky ones, those who get laid off or those
    who remain.  What do the latter have to look forward to?  More layoffs?
    Surely.  Continued downward spiral of morale and productivity? 
    Probably.  Continued decrease in pay and benefits?  Naturally.  Added
    stress from trying to "work smarter" ... most of the time with
    inadequate training and direction?  Most likely.
    
    We're on the Titanic, folks ... and the captain ain't in charge of the
    bridge.  His bridge crew are all working hard to secure their own
    positions, but nobody's looking out for the ship except the passengers.
    
    ... Bob
    

       Sound like a good job for the new "VP of Ethics"! Seemed pretty
    unethical to me.
                                  Denny

    re: .153
    
    I basically agree with your note EXCEPT for the assertion that "Do the
    Right Thing" is dead at Digital.  My position is that now, more than
    ever, it is up to the "grunts" to see that the Right Thing is done at
    upper levels.  The only way that happens is if a lot of grunts are
    informed and take proactive measures.  That's apparently what happened 
    with the no-smoking policy, with the replacement of the DCU Board of 
    Directors, and now with RSS.  Let's learn from experience and use it.
    
    Steve

Re .338:


>    Is there anyone out there that is anywhere around BP
>    that can make him aware of the excuses being thrown around.  Now that
>    the ____ hit the fan, no one owns up to such a major decision.
    
He's as close as the MAIL> command on the machine you used to type in 
that note!

I agree that he should be made aware in no uncertain terms (although politely
and professionally) what kind of excuses and general weaseling is 
going on here.  I think that it should come from someone directly involved.
While I am disgusted with what has happened here, I wouldn't carry much weight
complaining about it.  Just make sure that you are ready to accept the package
before you write.  He may decide to fix the situation in his own way.

Kevin

    For those of you who are interested...we were told yesterday that the
    people who made the decision to get rid of DEC-SALE were the area sales
    VP's.  
    
    Let's see...what did our DM yell?  "You WILL take care of our business! 
    You WILL act professionally!  What do you people want from me, BLOOD?" 
    That's not all but those are the direct quotes that I remember. 
    Previous to this several people had specifically said that we did not
    hold the DM responsible for the fiasco however, we did want our
    concerns addressed and basically the message was - do your jobs and
    shut up!
    
    Nanci

    
    RE: -1
    
    > Just make sure you are ready to accept the package if you write...
    
    What makes you or anybody else think he doesn't read this notes file,
    or is told what is being written in it.
    
    Why doesn't the moderator extract this entire conference and send it
    to Mr. Palmer as , the-voice-of-the-people.
    
    If you wouldn't say it to him yourself, don't put it in here.
    
    

>    Let's see...what did our DM yell?  ... You WILL act professionally!  

	I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read this...

					Tom_K

>    Let's see...what did our DM yell?  ... You WILL act professionally!  


The "Do as I say, not as I do" technique.  Sure says a lot!

Well I want to say a great big THANK YOU to the many friends in this corporation
that feel that the team and myself do a great job in helping sell Digital's 
products and services. 


I am the one that asked for any type of moral boosting message or type of 
counseling from human resources to increase this teams faith in the company 
we work so hard for. The best medicine isn't vengence it is time and with 
faith from our customers I feel that this group will bounce back. The biggest
moral booster I could see in this group is from Russ Gulloti or Bob Schmitt 
forwarding all the messages and pleas to this organization. 

Jeff Riggen 

So how was the decision to drop RSS arrived at???  Can't tell where
the decision came from?  This is what I *THINK* might have happened.

Pure, unadulterated speculation:
=====================================================================

 BP:  "Don (Zereski).  I need 2500(or any number) to TFSO from your 
      side.  Find me those numbers."

 (DZ goes out and does some serious looking.  Then comes back ...)

 DZ: "Bob.  I can only give you 2000."

 BP: " ... make that 2001."  (BP puts Don 'out to pasture').

 BP: "I need 499 more.  Someone better come up with the numbers."

 (next person in line knows BP means business and needs to come up with
  499.  Enter the RSS plans.)

 (D)Mgr of RSS: (Thinks to him/herself ... 'This can't be right!  This is 
             not a wise decision for the corporation.  But it's been handed
             down.  What can I do to save my (people's) job??????.....
             I KNOW, BY GOLLY!!!  By hook or crook.)

	     "Team.  I'm giving you PLENTY of time (relatively speaking) 
             to know that your job is going away.  I'll broadcast 
             it to the world by putting the voice-message saying 'After 
             Dec. 11th, try somebody else.'"

	     (Let the DECvine start working.  In the meantime, AVENET,
              PIONEER, WYLE(?), et al. will have a headstart on formulating
	      their angle of attack.)

 (Internally, the roar is great.  Externally, the roar is greater.)

 Enter AVENET,PIONEER,WYLE ...

 A,P,W: "WE'LL SUE FOR BREACH OF CONTRACT !!! (their lawyers will find 
        a way, even if another 800 number was given as an alternative, 
        to prove that they do provide the exact, same service).  

        WE'LL NEVER SELL A DEC MACHINE AGAIN!!!"

 BP:  "Well.  Let's re-evaluate.  Contracts expire in June???  They DO sell
       quite a few DEC machines, don't they.   This is a sticky wicket.
       Keep RSS.  Something needs to be figured out by June ..."


A pipe-deamer's possible future for RSS.  It's the outsourcing that everyone
is familiar hearing.  You've got 6months.  At least give it a feasibility 
study:

       (This would probably set a precedent)
	Setup RSS outside the company as a startup ... or even a subsidiary.
	Hire the manager or DM or someone qualified to run a company as CEO.
	In June, have OEM business farmed out to 'RSS'.  Have DEC receive
	a 'advantageous' contract (for setting this whole thing up) with 
        'RSS' to provide Sales Support.

	or even ...

	Sell RSS to A,P,W ... either to an individual company (who in turn
        sells RSS support to other vendors, including DEC) or to them as
	a consortium.

If the decision to save RSS is temporary, let's think of solutions that 
will benefit all the parties involved.  There is a niche out there that 
*MAY* be ripe for the picking... 

    One thing no-one has mentioned in this notes string is that if the
    decision to cut RSS was really a "bean-counter" one, then the same
    number of "heads" that were to come from shutting down RSS will come
    from somewhere else...)-8
    
    -Terry

Re .-1: Edgar, thanks for doing a follow-up with Russ Gullotti. As a former
I.S. manager and now a Sales Support Consultant, I'm disgusted by what I've
seen happen here. The only positive thing was the response I got from Russ and
Bob Schmitt. I've been tempted to send additional memos regarding this up the
line, but I've already got a reputation in my District for my recent
communications to upper levels of management; nothing negative, mind you, but
I want to make sure I send up only the most important concerns. Of course, I'm
doing whatever I can to fix things within my 'circle of influence'. 

I spoke to Bob Schmitt on the phone the other day and I told him that it was
encouraging to see someone up there listening to the little people. Everyone
at COE was told from Palmer, Smith, et al, that upper management wants to hear
from us. Please make any communication to them clear, concise, unemotional and
professional. It worked for me. 

Regards,

Jim

   <<< Note 2242.143 by PROMPT::MILLING "Bob Milling, 264-2068 MKO2-2/K03" >>>
          -< example of other cuts that will drive up cost or sales >-


    >    Back to the question posed in .131.  I and one other person are the
    >    only two remaining members of a corporate technical support team
    >    within a PCU that is getting Digital into a relatively new and growing
    >    market.  Much of our work has been similar to what the RSS group has
    >    been doing on a very large scale.  Filling in the cracks and closing
    >    gaps is very familiar territory.   We've been told we're on the Dec. 7
    >    list.  We don't have the visibility of RSS, so I don't expect any last
    >    minute reprieve.  Lots of complex but viable opportunities will be
    >    dropping into the cracks.  ie. revenue will be lost and/or more
    >    expensive to get.
    
    Well, Bob doesn't want to identify the organization himself, so I well. They
    are what is left of the imaging technical support team.  In case no one has
    noticed, IMAGING is a fine example of a market that Digital is doing a fine
    job of ignoring.  Bob and his team are (were?) the resource of last resort
    when sales support and the image resource centers couldn't help.  Now,
    when you have an RFP that required deep technical expertise, who are you
    going to call?  They have done a superb job for the 4+ years that I've
    known them.
    

    and that folks is the sad truth.
    
    or, "How to watch $5 billion go away for want of a plan" 

Hi,
	Could someone help this chap please, he wants to buy a laser printer
and I'm leaving the company today

cheers
	Craig

 ------------ Forwarded mail received on 15-Dec-1992 at 00:14:38 ------------

From:	VBORMC::"MELBARBARI@cc.weber.edu"
To:	edieng::cockburn
CC:	
Subj:	Re: Hi..

Hi..!! YES I am interested in a laser.. what kind of price could you get me..?

					thanks.. bye for now..! :-)

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