Conference 7.286::digital

    I joined the stock purchase program for the current period, and
    received the on-line number a few weeks ago.  Since then, I haven't
    had any problems using it for inquiries.
    
    
    						Michael Moy

    Yes, I had similar problems.  I subscribed the last time around,
    about 4 or 5 months ago, wasn't it?  I received my online number
    just last week.  Since no stock purchases had been made on my behalf
    yet, I didn't really worry about it.  Considering all the other
    flames of the stock plan (and people) I've read, the delay really
    didn't surprise me.
    
    Phil

    Not to throw a wrench in the works, since I've been on the stock
    plan for almost 2 years now, but what online number, and what is
    it used for???
    

    Jon    
    

    The online number allows one to do almost EVERYTHING you'd EVER
    want to do with your stock.  Mainly you can determine your current
    amount, the current price, the selling price of any you might have
    sold, and you can actually sell the stock.
    
    Other than the lousey user interface it's really pretty good.
    
    Don

    
    
    	what ever you do dont loose that acces number, i misplaced
    mine awhile back and i called several times and they said yes it
    was in the mail, etc.  never did recieve the new number.  but luckly
    i found mine again.  today i proably still wouldnt have had it.
    		wen.
    

Re .5:

Makes you wonder when the person why *did* get your number in the mail
is going to start manipulating your stock, doesn't it?
				/AHM

    At least the stock line lets you change your password.  That's better
    than DCU.
    
    BTW, one day a year or more after I had gotten my account, changed
    my password, and used the thing several times, I got a "reminder"
    in the mail about the wonderful dial-up stock whizzy.  They were
    kind enough to print on the notice a copy of my changed password
    (number).  I really let the fur fly, telling them that not only
    did they have no business sending my password through the mail in
    clear text, but they should not even STORE my password in clear
    text...it should be hashed in some way with my badge number etc.
    
    I got no response, although I have not seen my password in the mail
    again.
    
    Burns

    I sold some of my shares using the phone system some 10 days ago,
    still haven't received my check (they are supposed to mail the check
    after 5 working days)!!

     re .8:
     
     If you phoned your sale in 10 days ago, on the 13th, then the shares
     would have been sold on the 14th.  Your check would then be mailed
     on the 21st; if you phoned your order in on the 14th, the check
     would not be mailed until today (the 24th).
     
     --Mr Topaz

    but but but...
    
    why do we have such problems with these people???
    
    We all work for the same company and yet they treat us like we
    were illegal aliens when we call.... and if you ask personnel for
    help you get blank stares...
    
    

    	Well, it looks like the purchase was made... $78.00/share, after
    the discount. This seems awfully high to me. Do I misunderstand
    something, or does this mean that the stock never fell below $97
    between June 1 and Dec 1? Didn't the stock just split in May at
    $55.00 a share? Did it actually gain $42 in less than a month??
    
    	I've been trying to get through to the automatic line, but it
    rings forever until I get a busy signal. I'm disappointed.
    
    	Ed

    The purchase price isn't based on the lowest price in the period,
    it's based on .85(min(closing price on first day, closing price on
    last day)).   The price on first day was adjusted for the split.

    re .11:  It could not have been 55 per share...before the split, the
    price was approaching $200 (around 180?); thus after the split, the
    price must have been approaching 100 (around 90?).  Handwaving and
    writing on napkins, if you take 1.15 times 78, you get 89.7, which
    matches pretty well with the first sentence.
    
    Burns 

    	OK, I was disappointed, but I was also ignorant. I thought the
    price was just over $100 at the split. And I still agree, it's a
    great deal. I also thought the employee price was 80% of the market
    price, not 85%.
    
    	NOW I just wish I could get through on the G%$ D&^% phone. It
    yesterday I tried all day, and either it was busy or it rang forever
    until I got a fast busy. I even tried at 2:30am. Then this morning,
    it was busy forever. I just tried it, and I got THROUGH! Yippee!
    It pleasantly enough asked me for my badge number, so I typed it
    in, and hit the "#" button...and it just as pleasantly said "System
    Unavailable. Thank you. Goodbye." -click-. 
         
    	*sigh* 
    
    	Ed

    In my experience the employee price is closer to 86% of the
    Fair Market Value, due to rounding.
        John Sauter

    Also note that VTX gives stock quotes.  You can probably find
    data like what we bought the stock at if you know what catagory
    to look under.  (I think the stock quotes are in Live Wire?)
    
    I usually use the little green postcards available at personel to
    sell stock.  They're slow, but they're less frustrating.

    I also have had the same problem with the dial-up. 
    
    But if you call the number listed in the DEC directory and be VERY
    INSISTENT and tell them you have tried for X number of days and
    the result you have had, they will, if pushed, take a sale order
    over the phone, or give you any information that you need.
    
    Angeline

    On Monday, June 2, 1986, DEC stock hit a high of 92 3/4, a low of
    90 1/2, and closed at 91 1/4.
    
    My understanding is that the price used for the purchase is based
    on the AVERAGE stock price in trading on the first or last day
    of the period.  There is no easy way to calculate this from the
    newspaper figures, but I suspect it could account for the 85% vs
    86% discrepency.
    
       Gary

    re: .18--It used to be (it may still be, I'm not sure) that the report
    you get when the stock purchase completes lists the Fair Market Value
    on the two dates, and the purchase price.  Working backward to compute
    the purchase price's percentage of the lower of the two Fair Market
    Values, I always got 86%. 
        John Sauter 

    	Today the phone robot is in a good mood. It gets pissed if you
    can't figure out what a "valid date" is, but other than that, I
    got a 'sell' order in. You do have to be persistant to get through
    the busy's, and if it doesn't pick up right away, hang up and try
    again, but if you've been having trouble, give it a shot.
    
    	Ed

    RE: .16
    
    	Additional DEC stock data is available in the following two
    public files:
    
    1.  Daily volume, low price, high price, and closing price for the
       current month.  This file is updated daily.
    
    File is at:  MILAPP::MILA5:[LIBRARY]STOCK.TXT
    
    2.  Same statistics all the way back to November 1982.
    
    File is at:  MILAPP::MILA5:[LIBRARY]STKHST.TXT
    
    
    
    I have found them to be particularly interesting as well as a good
    historical reference.  Since I just joined Digital June 30, I have
    to wait until May 1987 to enroll in the stock plan but plan on 
    signing up for the full 10% of gross.
    
    Mike
    

    Don't mean to be a miser...
    
    but we've strayed from the original topic of this note...
    
    what can we do to fix the problems with this "computer" system which
    the stock office blames all of their problems on?
    
    Will fixing the software they have to deal with fix their attitude?
    
    Who is the high-level manager of these people that we can complain
    to to get these things fixed.  
    
    Why won't personnel help us......
    
    
    

	Robert Dill is the manager for Investor Services
	m/s: MSO / L12	dtn: 223-5213

	He reports to Albert Mullin, VP for Corporate Relations
	m/s: MSO / N09	dtn: 223-5350

	Normally, the ESPP statements arrive about the 15th of June
or December.  It is now January 8 and I don't have mine yet.   Am I
the only one, or is everyone still waiting???  (I have moved since
June, but the company has sent mail to my new address so I know it's
in the system).

Frank

    I got both of mine a couple of weeks ago so I'd suggest that you
    might want to give the fine folks at Investor Services a call.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Don

And change your PIN on the Touch-Tone system, since your statement containing
both your PIN and your badge number may have fallen into the wrong hands.

/john

        Re: .24
        
        I have also not received my statement.  Prompted by the replies
        here I just called Investor Services.  They said that there was
        been some problem with the printing.  Some statements were
        mailed a while ago, but others are still being printed.  I was
        told that they all should be sent out by next week. 
        
        					B.J.

    I also have not yet received mine, and like the author of .24 I
    have moved since June.
    
    I'd begun wondering if the address change notification for Investor
    Services is automatic when the Personnel profile is updated or if
    it requires a seperate notification.  Now at least I have less concern
    that my statement was forwarded to the null device :-)

        I moved a few months ago and got my stock statement okay.
        
Jim Stratton
        

    mine just came today - addressed correctly to the new address.
    
    guess they were just late.
    

	Well, yesterday I got a statement from Investor Services (correctly
addressed), but it was the one telling me how much was being  added to
my W-2 for 1986 because I sold some stock earlier in the year.   I still
haven't gotten an ownership statement, but it does appear they have the
correct address.

Frank

I'm confused by this one.  I got the same statement.  Does it mean that I'm
going to end up paying taxes twice on this money, once when I earned it (as
part of gross earnings) and now again as a result of selling the stock I 
purchased through payroll deduction.  I'm very confused.

The statement also said, "record of stock purchases over the last 18 months."
Does that mean that stock purchases from 1985 will show up on my 1986 W-2?

Mark

If you sold the shares within two years after the date of the beginning of
the payment period, what DEC adds to your W-2 is the difference between what
you paid for the shares and what their fair market value was on the purchase
date (the last business day of the payment period).

For shares held more than two years, the part that's added to your W-2 is
equal to the lessor of:

	(a) the excess of the fair market value of the shares on the
	    date of disposition over the option price, or
	(b) 15% of the fair market value of the shares at the beginning
	    of the Payment Period.

No double taxation; you pay tax on *at most* the part of the price of the
stock that DEC paid for you (your employee discount on the stock).  And
it's deferred.

The rest of the gain over and above that is your responsibility to deal
with as a capital gain; you also pay tax on that under capital gains rules.
(Or loss... but who's had a loss with DEC stock recently!)

/john

    I'd like to re-open this discussion.  I recently re-started this
    discussion in a conference here in Spitbrook and got enough feedback so
    that I decided to send a message to Robert Dill, the manager of the
    stock plan.  He was interesting in hearing about all the problems that
    we all have been having with the program. He asked that people who have
    had specific problems, like getting access to the on-line system, late
    or non existant statements, etc... send mail directly to him via MTS.
    He is Robert Dill @MSO or I think that the 'new' format is MSO::Robert
    Dill. I am quite encouraged by the conversation I had with him and
    feel that he *REALLY* wants to help.
    
    I'd like to suggest that people who do send mail to him post a copy
    of it here. 
    
    Thanks and Good luck!
    
    Kevin

    We are starting the plan right now here in Belgium, and our main
    concern is that the check resulting from the sales is sent directly
    to home.
    
    Maybe Americans thrust their postal services, but do we ?
    
    My question here is what ever happen when a paycheck is lost in
    the mail ? 
    
    I would like to hear from any such case especially outside the US.
    
    			          
    
    				Ray_who_did_subscribe_as_soon_as_he_could

>    Maybe Americans thrust their postal services, but do we ?
>    
>    My question here is what ever happen when a paycheck is lost in
>    the mail ? 

Paychecks are almost never mailed; they are usually hand-distributed or the
funds are direct deposited.

Other checks, in the U.S., are almost never direct deposited; they are almost
always mailed.  There is almost never a problem.  In the rare event of a check
being lost, a replacement check can always be sent.

/john

                
    RE:.-1
    
    >Other checks, in the U.S., are almost never direct deposited; they are
    >almost always mailed.  
    
    Depends on what type of check. I was told that my relocation
    reimbursements are handled automatically the same way as my pay checks,
    i.e. if I had direct deposit to DCU, they would go there unless
    I stated otherwise.
    
    Other checks, such as expense reimbursements go to the address you
    specify on the form.
    
    Plan B checks come to office automatically unless you can find the
    right person in Fleet Administration and get them directly deposited
    to DCU also.
    
    Paychecks can be mailed but only by your secretary if you give her
    instructions to do so. I've had my secretary do this when I went
    on an extended vacation (3 months) and was expecting a check the
    week I left. Of course it was only a stub becuase I had direct deposit.
    
    I'm not aware of any type of checks that are always mailed in the
    U.S.
    
    	- Ramani
    

>    >Other checks, in the U.S., are almost never direct deposited; they are
>    >almost always mailed.  
>    
>    Depends on what type of check. I was told that my relocation
>    reimbursements are handled automatically the same way as my pay checks,

Relocation payments are handled by payroll.  In effect, extra paychecks are
generated with income in the "MISC" category.  This is because all relocation
payments have to increase your total gross pay so far this year appearing on
your pay stubs.

>    Other checks, such as expense reimbursements go to the address you
>    specify on the form.

Yes, they go by mail.

>    Plan B checks come to office automatically unless you can find the
>    right person in Fleet Administration and get them directly deposited

So they "almost always" go by mail?
    
>    Paychecks can be mailed but only by your secretary if you give her
>    instructions to do so.

I had payroll mailing my paychecks (stubs, actually) to my home for a while
when I was in a town where we didn't yet have an office.  After eventually
didn't need this service any more, I would occasionally still receive checks
for another COVERT who worked for DEC in some other covert location.

>    I'm not aware of any type of checks that are always mailed in the
>    U.S.

I said "almost always" not "always."  Wouldn't you agree that almost any company
who mails you dividends or payment for stock sold (e.g. AT&T, your broker) is
going to mail you the check under normal circumstances?  Don't most people mail
their utility payment checks in the U.S. (as opposed to Europe where it is
normally done by interbank transfer)?  I still think my statement about checks
other than payroll checks being generally mailed in the U.S. is true.

/john

================================================================================
Note XXX.0                         stock crash                           1 reply
SWATT::POLIKOFF "See SWATT run. Run SWATT run."      15 lines   2-DEC-1987 08:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Digital investor service had it own crash. The DTN 223-1880 keeps
    coming back system unavailable so I called Investor Services and
    was told they had a major hardware failure. I guess it couldn't
    handle the load of every DEC stockholder except Ken from selling
    their stocks.	D
    			 E
    			  C
    			  
    			    S
    			     T
    			      O
    			       C
    				K
    				 S
    

================================================================================
Note XXX.1                         stock crash                            1 of 1
DIEHRD::MAHLER "I GOTTA be learning SOMETHING!"       6 lines   2-DEC-1987 09:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    
    	I've heard that you can sell via DECmail, anyone know about
    this?
    
    

    
    The DECmail is INVESTOR SERVICES @MSO.  I called yesterday also...
    
    GOG
    

    When I called Investor Services on Tuesday, they said the Touch-Tone
    system was down because they were "updating the database".
    
    The DECmail message seemed to do the trick.  BTW, they have to receive
    the sell order by noon in order for the transaction to take place
    the next business day.

    223-1880 seems to be running again...

    re .42 (title)
    
    Nothing intentional at all. Bad blocks do appear on disk surfaces
    occasionally and when its a surprise, your data base gets corrupted.
    
    re .*
    Folks should be aware that Investor Services is a horribly understaffed
    group with numerous contract folks helping out. They handle employee
    stock transactions for the *entire* company. The phones ring
    constantly. Don't blame the folks that work there, they're doing
    the best they can with the resources they have. Blame the company
    for not making more/better resources available.
    
    Bob Mc

    Use the DECmail/All-in-1 Mail.
    
    It gives you a positive time stamped proof of your request. I have
    just had a problem with I/S not selling some stock and with the
    falling price I was able to prove they were at fault.
    
    On the good side they will pay the difference. Well done Invesstor
    Services. They also acted very promptly.
    
    C-Y-A with a time stamped mail message.
    
    David.
    

    re .-1
    
    It really worries me that IS will accept a timestamped mail message
    as proof. It is INCREDIBLY easy to fake a mail message and its
    timestamp. It appears with this that not only are IS inefficient, they're
    also stupid.
    
    Dave

    re .-1
    
    Perhaps IS went back and looked at *their* mail message and discovered
    the error (after it was pointed out, of cours).  There is no way way to
    fake *their* timestamp. 
    
-Andy    

    One of the reasons that they use DECmail and not VAXmail, is that
    DECmail comes hardcopy and has that annoying audit trail in the
    header, along with a message number. If the timestamp is out of
    sequence with other message numbers...
    
    Bob Mc

    also even RSX mail, check with North about backups.
    
    It would be easy to change the clock, not so easy to fudge the various
    firestorage backups.
    
    /s/ Jim Williams