Conference 7.286::digital

    
    	Hey, Mav - how many times I got to tell you...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    		IT IS NOT OURS TO REASON WHY, ONLY TO DO...AND DIE
    
    
    
    			the Greyhawk

     
    Yes, and it's apparently what they have been teaching in Business
    Science for too long (or still do ?)
    - Exchange/restructure a certain number of top positions and magically
      all your wrong internal processes will suddenly work -
    
    I can almost see late Deming rotating in his grave.
    
    Olaf

    RE .1
    
    Greyhawk,
    
    Sorry I forgot!  I mean I've only been going through this for 12 years
    now and why should this year be any different.  Silly Rabbit me.
    
    But really, why don't they just leave the bloody thing alone for
    awhile.  Here's a story I heard recently.
    
    A good friend of mine is an application sales engineer with a company
    that makes the door crush beams that go into automobiles.  Awhile back
    he makes a visit to Toyota Motor Co. in California to discuss with them
    a new and improved carbon/graphite version they are working on.  So, he
    goes through his pitch with the engineering teams there and they
    discuss the merits of having this new product in two of their vehicles. 
    They are the 2000-2003 Toyota mid-size truck and the 2004-2008 version
    of the Camary.  And up on the screen come versions of both concept
    vehicles.  So he asks them a question:  "How do you know you will build
    these vehicles?" and they say, "Because it is in our plan."  And he
    says, "What plan?"  and they say, "Our 15 year corporate plan for
    vehicle design."  So, after closing his open mouth, he says, "Oh, ok
    it's great to see that you have your plans so well thought out for the
    next 15 years!"
    
    Think of it, 15 years of knowing where you are going.....
    
    What a concept.
    
    Mav

    
    	I know. And this little camper would be very happy with just a two
    year plan that won't change six times during its alotted life span.
    
    	Ahhhh - the beauty of dreams.....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

|        I know. And this little camper would be very happy with just a two
|    year plan that won't change six times during its alotted life span.
|    
|        Ahhhh - the beauty of dreams.....

	Actually, we our planning in dog years around here .. and 15 fiscal dog years is
	about two human years. Strategic adjustments are done every fiscal dog quarter or
	every other Monday whichever comes first.

	>Per

    Darn it...I had written it down on the back of an envelope somewhere
    here and now I've lost the envelope.
    
    Sorry guys...

  I was going to write my copy down in the margin of a book, but
  there wasn't enough room. It was a marvelous plan, though, proof
  positive that our business was going to last.

                                   Atlant

    RE: .6 & .7
    
    You got an envelope and a book! I didn't see that in the plan! We'll
    have to review the plan to weed out this excessive waste of envelopes
    and books. And where in the plan did it state that you could write
    things down. This type of independent thinking will not be tolerated!
    
    -OFWAMI-8^)

re: .8 (re: .7)

Don't worry.  He won't do it again.

Ray

While I do agree that we change directions too many times, comparing the
automobile industry to the computer industry is like comparing apples 
and oranges.  There are breakthroughs in our industry constantly which
force us to change.  What's been the latest breakthrough in automobiles...

GRM.

    
    	re: -1
    
    	Funny that the man who coined the following quote was an auto guy.
    
    	"You either lead, follow, or get out of the way"
    
    	
    	I, for one, would much rather see Digital have comprehensive plans
    for leading the way, and in those areas where being second to market is
    good enough, how to follow effectively, efficiently, and quickly.
    
    	Unless of course you enjoy being someone who is always told "get
    out of my way".
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

  Re: A few replies ago...

  You know, your note started me wondering about whether our
  business really does change that rapidly *AND* unpredictably,
  or whether we just flatter ourselves by claiming that it does.

  Autos:

    o Basic technologies:
        - Internal combustion gasoline engines
        - Formed, welded steel sheets
        - Rubber tires

    o Advanced technologies
        - Automation of all sorts
        - Composite materials, plastic over space frames
        - Electric or hybrid vehicles; Gas turbines ("Just two years away")


  Computers:

    o Basic technologies:
       - Von Neumann processors
       - Harvard or ??? caches
       - Planar Silicon ICs
       - Fiberglass/epoxy-composite Printed Wiring Boards
       - Mass storage on magnetic disk and tape drives
       - CRTs, LCDs

    o Advanced technologies
       - GaAs (still "two years away" :-) )
       - Storage: Plated media, MR heads, gapless recording, optical


  These lists are incomplete, but the point I'm trying to make is
  that here in the computer industry, we're drawing on technology
  that has been either in existence or "in the pipe" for a long time.
  Much of my list of basic technologies dates from the Sixties or
  earlier. The basic rate of growth was surprising for a while, but
  I suspect by now it's pretty predictable. (How long have we known
  about "Moore's Law"? It's still pretty valid, isn't it?)

  And, on the other hand, the auto industry's technology isn't
  advancing any more slowly, it's just that they have the good
  sense to hold the user interface more constant, so we don't
  notice that cars now contain more MIPs than my VAXstation,
  or are made of composite materials that far better the per-
  formance achieved by formed steel panels.

  If we sat down and extrapolated, we could probably come up with
  a plan that's about as valid as Toytota's. But it would require
  dismissing some of the myth that we weave that *OUR* technology
  is changing faster than anyone else's; that we're miracle workers
  wrestling daily with some new, mysterious, Promethian fire. It's
  a lot easier just to 'dis Toyota.

                                   Atlant

    RE: -1
    
    Thank you for taking the technical front and pointing out the base
    technology vs. advanced technology argurement.  I couldn't agree with
    you more.
    
    What I was getting at in base .0 was how long we struggle and
    constantly fiddle with the process of business management around here. 
    Even IBM finally figured out that and look what they are doing these
    days (last quarter $1.4B in profit and their stock is at an annual
    high).
    
    The Darwinian rules of business does apply, "Adapt and change or die" but
    *the real* question here is why do we constantly and consistently
    continue to change the rules, make up rules when the outcomes don't
    suit our inputs, and keep the front line *interface* to the customer
    constantly wondering just what the hell is going on?
    
    Mav

    I'm reminded of the fellow who burnt out and left high-tech to become a
    restauranteur.  When one of his engineer buddies asked him how in
    heaven's name he could leave the field, the newly-coined restauranteur
    said "Because nobody will be visiting me every 6 months with an
    entirely new technology for broiling hamburgers."
    

    Don't be so sure about that.
    
    I'm hearing that fast food chains are installing robot systems which
    deliver measured portions from the freezer to the cooking equipment.
    

>    I'm hearing that fast food chains are installing robot systems which
>    deliver measured portions from the freezer to the cooking equipment.

I've seen one in action.   I've been at a McDonald's that had a 'Fry Robot' -
it handled the whole cooking process, from filling the baskets from a 
integral freezer, through the cooking process, and then dumped them into
the 'Fry Station' where the counter people would bag/box them up.    Pretty
neat.    About all the humans did was set the production rate.   (Especially
neat was the way it would occasionally shake the baskets in the fryer, just
like a human would.)    

Not suprising, since most of McDonald's success has been because of their
tight attention to process and repeatability.   Say what you want about their
food, but you know what to expect when/if you go there.   

Oh yeah, but can the robot ask "do you want fries with that?"
liesl

re: -1

    re .17
    
    Well, it looks like an opportunity for some enterprising DECcie to
    get a big DECtalk contract ...
    

    re .19: hey, we can do that! 
    
    Of course, listening to the answer is the tougher part.. but then
    again, the current implementation at the counter has a fairly low
    accuracy there.. 8-)
    
    ...tom
    e&rt assistive technology group

>> Oh yeah, but can the robot ask "do you want fries with that?"

A friend who worked for McDonald's told me that she was required to ask for at
least one additional item after an order.  (If the customer already ordered
fries, it is pointless to ask if they want fries, but you could ask if they
want a fruit pie or something.)  I have been tempted (but not too tempted :-)
to order one of everything on the menu and then watch the attendant struggle to
find something to ask about.

This is, of course, an ideal task for a computer.  Maybe we do have a good
opening here...

						Brian

    RE: .21
    
    Back in the early-mid 70s, that was called that "suggestive sell". Luckily,
    I worked the grill and never had to do it.
    
    Actually the robot at the fry station is a good idea. The fry station
    is a very dangerous area to work. I still have a scar on my arm from
    when someone was "hustling" back to the counter and slipped into me. I
    had just  pulled a fry basket out of the oil and was preparing to dump
    it. Luckily it only hit my arm, and neither I nor the basket fell back
    into the hot oil. (I got 2 days off with pay for that :-) ).
    
    Deb 

    I'm sure the original "McDonald's" who started a small hamburger joint
    in the 50's rolled over in their grave years ago. 8-)
    
    Jim C.
    

    to -1
    actually Mr. MacDonald is alive and well and living in New Hampshire.

>> Say what you want about their
>>food, but you know what to expect when/if you go there.

	Which is why it is the best place to go when/if you have a 
	hangover. In my misspent youth, after a fun Friday night, nothing
	helped my stomach settle better than Mickie-D's on Saturday.
	Scary, but it works.

							mike

    As to humans at the counter, I know of (2) chains in the West that
    already use touchscreens for ordering - Arby's and Taco Bell (limited
    basis at TB).  The touchscreens do the suggestive selling and
    everything, so the low-paid, usually non-English speaking person 
    at the counter just takes your money and makes change.  I'm sure 
    somebody will find a way around that soon, too -- using ATM cards,
    etc., it wouldn't take much!!
    
    M.

    OK - as long as we are now seriously off the subject...
    
    I heard about the robots from my stove repair man type person (I have
    a restaurant stove at home).  This guy works on these robots.  Now -
    want to hear the scarey part?
    
    As you might expect - you have to program these things.  Trouble is
    nobody in the store knows how to do it.  So - just to make sure that
    nobody does a number on the robots - the keyboard to the machine
    leaves with the repair truck.
    
    These are robots that are dealing with equipment that could very
    easily burn the place down.
    
    

    Roy Rogers just started the "touch screen" here in N.J.

    re:         <<< Note 3996.24 by MRKTNG::BROCK "Son of a Beech" >>>

<    to -1
<    actually Mr. MacDonald is alive and well and living in New Hampshire.
    
    
    Then I bet he doesn't eat there.
    
    Tony
    (who hasn't eaten in a McDonalds in over six  years.)

    re: .1
    
    I'm sure there are people who have never eaten at McDonald's but it
    was the summer of 77 the last time I partook of their food.
    
    Doesn't mean a damn thing and is far from the topic. 
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    >> Roy Rogers just started the "touch screen" here in N.J.
    
    and did the software engineers call the touches 'Trigger' events? 
    jc

    .31
    No, I think Dale was the name.

        <<< Note 3996.31 by MEMIT::CIUFFINI "God must be a Gemini..." >>>
                        -< ... just horsing around ... >-

    >> Roy Rogers just started the "touch screen" here in N.J.
    
>>    and did the software engineers call the touches 'Trigger' events? 
>>    jc

	jc, wasn't 'Trigger' Stuffed!