Conference 7.286::digital

    Hardware Peripheral Support TODAY is 9 people, 4 of are currently at 
    HIGH RISK, and the rest will be going to Central Diagnosis, so you call
    in and no CRR, you are directly to an engineer who is responsible for 
    your call, IF you call in on a TA90, you may be speaking to a UNIX or
    VAX person, and the tape specialist is busy working on OSF calls.
    
    No the total support is not going away, but please do not hold your 
    breath waiting for the proper advise.  With 1 printer support engineer
    there will not be 24 by 7 support.  You pays your money and you takes
    your chances.
    
    
    Dave

    Things are changing by the minute.  Remote Support and External
    Customer Support were to be hit hard.  It looks like some managers had
    some sense, and decided to review the situation.  It appears that Field
    Service got rid of 80% of the District/Regional Support groups.  That
    left about 35 Internal Support Hardware Engineers in the Center to
    cover the business + the remaining Support Engineers in the Field. 
    There are about 60 External Customer Support Engineers in hardware
    also.  There aren't many of us left in the company...  We Provide
    support 24X7 on ALL HARDWARE products, including VENDOR.  Last count,
    we had 25% of the Internal hardware people told that they were at risk,
    and about 20% of the External people were told they were at risk.  We
    were not told that less or more will be transitioned, just that the
    situation was being reviewed.  There have been rumors within the center
    and from the field about what is happening.  All we can do is look at
    the numbers and the direction and speculate...  Not a good prospect for
    hardware...
    
    Jim Morton

    re -1
    exactly the reason why the morale sucks big-time... nearly everywhere
    
    management seems to do NOTHING to alleviate the pressures on the folks
    who are at risk or perceive themselves at risk.
    
    our UMs can't help because they are just as much in the dark as we are.
    
    this has GOTTA stop!
    
    tony

    Well, I may be considered for the next tfso package just for saying
    this, but so be it.  Tima, Stars, or whatever may be out there is nice,
    but in case anyone still remembers, the field service grunt runs all
    day, with a sandwich in one hand and pulling up his trousers with the
    other.  There is not much time to sit by a windows terminal and just
    browse thru what someone "has seen happen" on a particular product.  I
    feel no personal shame in not being able to solve problems
    occasionally, whether on new or old equipment.  My customers know that
    I have CX03 as a resource, and that I use that resource at the drop of
    a hat.  These customers will know in short order if this resource goes
    away, even if I "don't" tell them.       CR

    re .3
    
    In the group I work in many people are afraid the ARE NOT going to get
    tsfo'd.  The fear is they are going to be left behind to take up the
    additional work and pressure/stress from management.  We have no morale in 
    managment doesn't allow it.

    
    
    	i'm one of the 3 vendor hardware/applications/jukebox support
    	folks in colorado, i'm on the bubble....i'v already seen the
    	results of allowing the "untrained" in vendor products take
    	the vendor calls..SI disk system having clock drop outs...ce
    	goes on site with an ra90 ecm.....won't work.
    
    	another call, tape unit broken. rdg dials in dumps the error
    	log, sees a ta81. sends ce to site with a formatted module,
    	tape is really an 8mm on an ma90.
    
    	another, broken 8mm. fatal controller errors. rdg sends ce to
    	site with an $8K ma90 card, problem was wrong code in the drive.
    	cost should have been about $20.....
    
    	rich harvey

    Yup that's why we charge the big bucks for field service Opps MCS
    contracts because of our highly trained staff, huge inventory and
    extensive support services.
    
    Training is slim to non existant
    We're now trying to work with zero inventory
    Support is being slowly cut away
    and Rent-a-techs are being used extensively.
    
    
    Ya as a customer I'd be willing to pay a 40-60 % premium for that
    
    NOT !
    
    
    Brian V
    

    Yes, this all makes perfect sense to me. Take the most profitable
    entity in Digital, skillfully dismantle it, and expect to become
    more profitable.
    
    Well this sounds like a perfect opportunity for anyone out there
    wishing to eat our lunch.
    
    
    

    
    	This appears to be management at 30,000 feet. We see the big
    picture without understanding how all the pieces fit at ground level.
    
    	I have my own theory about all this, but it is unshareable in a
    public forum.
    
    	As for the answer to Mr. Stanley's question "Yes, 'they' do have
    a clue?", it is just that we don't.
    
    	:-) + 3
    
    			the Greyhawk
    
    		

    
    
    	It was a cool spring morning when the phone rang.
    	Its the boss "Need to see you come over"
    
    	Boss: "Well ... this is'nt easy to say but we have been ask to
    	       ELIMINATE the district support org.  And Iam asking you to
    	       go find one of those tools bags from a TFSO'ed engineer and start
    	       shagging calls again!"
    
    	Since that day the Great Lakes District has lost about 30
    engineers.
    
    	Last week alone we had 2 engineers TFSO'ed and 7 yes thats SEVEN
    people quit.  I myself looking for an out.... QUICK! before the ship
    goes down....
    
    

    re .10
    
    Well that is entertaining.  We were told that we will have "excess
    capacity" because the district support org would take over the internal
    field calls coming into the CSC's.  
    
    Oh goody!  who is steering the boat?

            <<< Note 3385.11 by CSC32::M_EVANS "skewered shitake" >>>

    
    Oh goody!  who is steering the boat?



	What boat???



	Dick...
	  
	   one of the few, the proud, the endangered, a hardware support type!!

    FWIW: The two support engineers in our district are now shagging calls
    also.

    And every day folks here at 1-800-DEC-SALE spend time stepping
    through the manual process required to uplift the warranty on
    probably our hottest ticket (Sable - 2100) to 24 x 7 DECservice
    (some with add'l 10% adder for 2 hour response) with our remaining
    sales reps and authorized distributors.
    
    I've seen what has already happened to the interal HW support
    people here at the CSC in Atlanta and I know what has happened to
    most of the field offices; it seems as if Digital is willing to
    take the bucks up front at point of sale without worrying about
    WHO will be left to "pick up that tool bag" when a call eventually
    gets logged against a system.
    
    I'm amazed our installed base customers aren't screaming bloody
    murder (or maybe they already are and the screams are getting ignored)?
    
    The sales reps and distributors are doing what they've been encouraged
    to do, i.e. selling premium extended and uplifted services up front at
    point of sale; I wonder how long it will be before a large account
    cries "foul" at our inability to deliver the service & response paid
    for.
    
    

 well if this make anyone feel better (not!) 

the customer are flexing there muscles a little and 
I have heard though the "grapes of wrath" vine 
that if we lay anymore folk off...there leave dec
period!

Neal

    
      re: .13 
      
      ..lets talk 2100 training. It wouldn't require a lot, but SOMETHING
    is better than nothing. I've been involved in a few calls with 
    SWXCR raid controller issues and such. 
      
      That brings up another issue. I hear complaints about overtime
    when it comes to MCS. Hold the phone! I am MCS and I have NEVER 
    done an afterhours call that wasn't:
    
    		1) for a DECservice customer paying the uplift
    				-or-
    		2) billed at a rate WAY above my OT wage.
    
      Bottom line - money has to come in, before it goes out.
    
    

    Maybe I wasn't as clear as I should be; I've no problem with
    the premium uplifts etc. if those monies will make certain we DO
    have the MCS people available to meet the reponse time and
    commitments.  I agree the money has to come in, but it seems we've
    already gutted MCS "worker-bees"; who will be left to deliver on
    those commitments already made to a customer if we continue to
    hit MCS?
    
    My ex used to work for FS; I can remember the days when DECservice
    meant we had FS on-site within 4 hours.  You wouldn't believe some
    of the tales I've heard about how the response time commitment is
    interpreted in the field these days.  We have customers paying for
    the 2 hour response, not because they really expect anyone on-site
    within 2 hours, but just to make sure we'll at least get a tech
    out the same day <---- this is NOT the way DECservice was delivered
    just a few years ago.
    
    I'm not blaming the MCS techs; they are too few and spread too thin.
    I understand we're using a lot of temps in field MCS offices; take
    away their support from the CSCs and what level/quality of service
    are we really delivering?
    
    

    Due to the current financial constraints of the corporation,
    the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further
    notice.

    re -1
    
    seems so. sadly so.

re.13:

>    FWIW: The two support engineers in our district are now shagging calls
							     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Shouldn't that be "callers'?

Dave.

    
    Re -1
    
    Must confess I was also bemused by a real difference (I hope!) in the
    US & British versions of English ........ Saw real prospects for
    premium services!
    
    Colin

    I work for MSC.  Every week I get at least one or two memo's that are
    from national account reps.  These memo's are sent to all the
    engineers.  They are always the same.  The customer feels that 
    DIGITAL cannot support there needs.  The problems are always the same.
    The problems are we don't have the parts in stock, it takes too long
    for a tech to get there, and although the tech is very technical he or
    she is not trained on the customers product.  My reaction is am I the
    only one reading these memo's?  Digital just seems to keep getting
    rid of parts from logistics, continuing to tfso people, and training
    is non existant.

    I AM A TECH AND I SEE PEOPLE BEING LET GO WHEN THERE IS
    NO WAY WE CAN REALISTICALLY MEET COMMITMENTS.CUSTOMERS ARE SHOCKED WHEN 
    WE HAVE NEVER SEEN THEIR PRODUCT BEFORE.NOT THAT WE TELL THEM BUT IT
    BECOMES OBVIOUS AFTER AWHILE.THEN WE CALL RDC AND AFTER WE CALL BACK
    A SECOND TIME WE ARE TOLD,YOUR IN A QUE EXPECT A CALL BACK IN 2 HOURS
    ,AND THEN YOU GET IT 4 HOURS LATER.YOU MUST WONDER WITH CUTBACKS AND NO
    TRAINING IF THE CORPORATION IS GOING TO STAY IN THE SERVICE BUISNESS

    
    It is just as embarrassing on the other end of phone trying to support
    the field and customers.  My team was cut from 4 to 1, and then
    consolidated with another team that was cut to 2; and my workload
    has increase 200 to 300+%, because of additional products we have been 
    given. It is still not uncommon to have to tell an internal on-site or a
    customer that we have not yet received the software or documentation on the
    product, so are not much help.  In some (most) cases we have never even
    seen the product... Training, what is that, everything today is OJT. 
    The answer from the managers at the MCS meeting in San Diego, is
    "anyone can learn new products in 30 days".  I hope the trip to the zoo
    gave them some enlightened answers on how to get back to providing 
    quality services to our customers.  In the current environment it is
    eroding.
    

    
    
    the cutting reminds me of a recent motion picture...
    
    	
    
    
    
    
    			And The BAND PLAYED ON......
    
    
    
    
    	rth

>    The answer from the managers at the MCS meeting in San Diego, is
>    "anyone can learn new products in 30 days".  

	Good! Then let them answer the phones and take the calls!    

    re .20
    
    	No, I'm sure he said "calls". I'm in support and we are shagging
    "CALLS". The really insane part is the calls are printers and monitors.
    
    It seams, support engineers like myself have been supporting hardware
    and software for years, but have seldom if ever actually seen any of
    this stuff and are therefore, not quite in tune with how to
    "physically" repair them.
    
    Has any one noticed that the message to the center is that the field
    will be self sufficiant  and   the message to the field is that
    the center will handle all calls, including escalation to engineering.
    
    Last week I went on an "unassisted" sales call to boot. 
    
    It is scary for me to think that there was a concerted effort to
    lay off all support engineers rather then intigrate them into the
    districts 6 months ago. 
    
    Now, my primary focus is revenue generation. I'me being graded on it.  
    My 3 man team has done almost 100k in the last 6 months with another
    100k set to go in the next 3 months. This leaves little time for
    escalated calls. 
    
    I'm afraid I've seen a few plans that indicate that this trend will
    continue, not reverse and thats the most scary thing.
    
    Support engineer/salesman/consultant/terminal tech....
    jim
    

Note 3385.24 by AIMTEC::PERSON_D 
    
    >The answer from the managers at the MCS meeting in San Diego, is
    >"anyone can learn new products in 30 days".  I hope the trip to the zoo
    
    if this indeed is an accurate quote, then those subscribing to such
    lunacy should be publically indentified and treated appropriately. to
    be that naive and out of touch is astounding these days. how many people
    got 30 days last year, or the last 3 years, to "learn new products"?
    what a joke.
    
    personally, i get most of my new product training on my own time. as do
    most of my peers. any new equipment i have acquired in the last 3 years
    i got from those tfso'd or i bought myself (~$5,000 out of my pocket).
    and i'm getting pretty sick of it. as are many i know.
    
    it might be better if i knew precisely what this company is striving to
    become. and i don't want to hear that "the leading client/server..."
    blah, blah, blah, stuff again. EVERYONE says that and they don't look
    anymore credible saying it then we do. most customers are smart enough
    to recognize trendy industry hype when they see it.
    
    i think i need a vacation. a long one.

    re a few back...
    
    2100 sable CBT is available over the net ...see tima
    workable on any 386....as good as the rest of the CBT's
    
    
    Brian V
    

    Well, this eng grp just got its first formal escalated-thru-CSC
    problem. How come I have 3 mgt types who are 'following' this,
    one eng to do crash dump analysis, and one specialist at the CSC?
    
    guess neither us engineers nor the CSC specs are doing our jobs and
    require multiple mgt efforts to keep us in line. yeah, that's it.
    
    bk
    
    

    Define "following this" ... On IPMT a manager can be automatically
    notified by mail of any changes to a case.  Could be that they only
    want to see changes.  I doubt if they have the time to actively track
    these escalations otherwise.  With e-mail notifications, the process is
    simple.  What's your point?? Manager are looking for busy work so they
    have to track technical escalations now??  Please elaborate.

    
    
    	looks like his point is that THREE managers are following ONE
    	escalation, that in itself should be cause for alarm.
    
    
    	rth

    last week I had 6 managers working about 4 hours to decide which
    of two customers I would service and which we would drop.

    
    "Shagging calls" means:
    
    To be given the responsibility to respond to a service request made
    by a customer on any one of several thousand different devices. To
    schedule and deliver that service, and to follow up to insure that
    the customer is satisfied. It is an increasingly difficult task.

re: "Shagging calls":

Just to further the across-the-pond disconnect, I believe the term
"shagging" may have originated in American baseball.  I've always heard
it used in the context of "shagging fly balls", i.e., running to where the
ball is going to land and catching it.

-Hal

    This was discussed in another conference; "shagging" (whatever)
    definitely has a different meaning depending on which side of the
    pond you reside :-}
    
    On U.S. side we shag base balls, shagging is a dance popular at
    Myrtle Beach etc.; shagging calls is also an expression used by field
    service types to describe responding to a field service call.
    
    Perhaps one of our British co-workers will provide their
    interpretation of the word :-}
    
    

    
    better yet, a SUBURBian!

    -1   You know whereof I speak :-}
    
    

    re -last two
    
    i think, in the interest of this being a family conference, that a
    SUBURBian definition of "shagging" should be avoided. just MHO.

G'Day,

	I can assure you that down here in Australia we use the term 'shagging'
in the same ways as the Brits.

	In many ways I think we definitely are shagging our customers, and in
doing so we are shagging ourselves!

David.

>    Perhaps one of our British co-workers will provide their
>    interpretation of the word :-}
    
    Let's put it this way: In British English shagging involves two people
    and is (are?) prone to cause a population increase.
    
    Apparently in US English shagging involves one person and a piece of
    equipment and may result in a satisfied customer.
    
    The USA version is obviously less people intensive. However the
    British version has an in-built tendency to produce more people which
    counteracts its resource intensive nature.
    
    For further information please contact your Digital Sales
    representative.
                                               

>    Apparently in US English shagging involves one person and a piece of
>    equipment and may result in a satisfied customer.
 
    Well, come to think of it, the British version may result in two
    satisfied customers...   

    And if a Briton says that a piece of equipment, or a person, is "shagged
    out" then it means that it is no longer able to function due to
    exhaustion (real or metaphorical).

    
    	As one of your friendly local "Suburbians," I will respond.
    
    	A previous reply gave one description of the meaning the word in
    question.  I'll try to give another:
    
    	Shagging is the indulging in a form of intercourse other than the
    social type, between two people of opposite gender, hopefully in the
    context of marraige, which sometimes results in an increase of the
    population, but not always.  Also, steps (not to be described in a
    family conference such as this), may be taken to prevent the resultant
    increase in the population, whilst indulging in the aforementioned
    activity.  Furthermore, the resultant increase in population CANNOT be
    assumed to result in any increase in the readership of this family
    Conference due to cicumstances seemingly outside the control of those
    providing the resourses of this Conference.
    
    				;^)
    
    
    
    				Malcolm.

   RE: Who's steering the boat?
   
   Not much need to steer a boat that is rapidly proceeding along the Z
   axis.

    Re: .41 and .44
    
    Thanks, ya'll.  I needed a laugh this morning  :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    

    
    
    Well the lastest rumor is that MCS is about to be sold off!  
    
    This has come from a VERY reliable source.....
    
    Don

    The rumor from my manager is that it isn't going to be sold off.
    
    He is fresh back from San diego.

but those were the same things the managers were saying about RDB.  The 
non-manager rumor mills are much more reliable.

    In an attempt to return to profitability Digital has cut my group
    to the bone.    We support VIA products and compilers on the VMS
    platform.  By cutting back our group, Digital has in effect changed 
    the level of service that our customer's get from us.  In the last 
    3 or so weeks I have dealt with several customer who have expressed 
    dissatisfaction with the current level of support and have noticed 
    a change in the service offered.   They have also stated that the 
    level of service in the past was very good - far beyond other vendors.  
    NOW four of the customer's  said that they are totally feed up with 
    Digital an will actively push Digital out the computer room door 
    and opt for other vendors.
    
    This is too bad for Digital as our customer perceptions of our
    products and support are changing for the bad as we note.   Are 
    the salary savings of the Software Specialists TFSOed worth the 
    decreased level of service and subsequent customer dissatisfaction 
    which results?  
    

    Something I do is to offer to get the fed up customer's to a MOD.  I
    don't have the number for "The Office of the President" or I would
    refer them there.  Our customers need to let the people in charge know
    about their disatisfaction.  Anything I tell management is just more
    bitching from a peon.
    
    meg

    Common Name:   BOB PALMER
    Search Surname:  PALMER  Search Given Name:  BOB,  ROBERT,  ROBERT B
    DTN:  223-6600,  223-7100  Telephone:  (508)493-6600,  (508)493-7100
    Intrnl Mail Addr:  MLO12-1/A50  Location:  MLO  Username:  BOB PALMER
    Org Unit:  OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT,  SECRETARY: JUDY WILCOX 223-9647
    Position:  PRESIDENT AND CEO
    

    3 of my customers have apparently spoke with the office of the
    president, although who they really speak to is the MOD.  
    
    Maybe Bob should get involved and not let the peon/manager (manager
    filter) take.  Does Bob realize that customers are really starting
    to get mad.   How many of these "elevated to the office of the
    president" top priority, critical, needs to be fix yesterday problems 
    can 1 person work at once?
    
    Don't misunderstand me, I still believe in Digital - we are a top notch
    company, but it is painful to see us sliding into a second rate
    company.   
    
    
    

    
    	Stop sighing and get on note 3387 and put some input into what
    	we can do. Sometimes opportunity knocks very softly. Let's take
    	advantage of this one.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Up until now, I thought those of us still here had something to be
    hopefull about and work towards. There was a glimmer of light at the
    end of the tunnel. 
    
    This is SERIOUS ! This is losing us customers and future business. 
    This is indeed a sad, sad thing to watch. If this is really happening 
    there is NO hope for Digital, period.
    
    Our customers will leave by the trainloads. Or maybe we don't want to
    be in the service business any longer. Maybe we don't need all that
    revenue, something like half of everything we take in. Lets see, that
    will bring us down to about a $6.5B company. And the eventual affect
    on sales will flush whatever is left.
    
    Do any management types out there know whats going on ? Is there some
    strategy here ? 

    re: .55
    
    I must be slow today, Greyhawk.  In words of one syllable -- what's the
    connection between customer dissatisfaction with support that's been
    cut to the bone, and brainstorming about sales/marketing strategies for
    Internet and potential CISC/RISC synergies?  Other than that presumably
    if we manage to market the new stuff successfully we'll have money to
    hire more people, I can't see that the two are related. 
    
    What am I missing? 
    
    --bonnie

    re .55 and .57
    
    Sales can sell all the service contracts it wants to, however if
    sales wants to continue to sell service contracts there needs to be a
    support organization that is able to deliver what sales is selling.
    Furthermore, the customer has to believe they are getting what they pay
    for.
      

    
    
    	if you think things are bad now...WAIT.....digital is
    	hiring 100-120 students from a local college here in
    	the springs to do "front end" work. yes, thats right
    	folks, the support center, that used to have 54a*'s
    	assisting internal and external folks will now use
    	STARS readers.....can you say "preimum price for sub standard
    	service".....
    
    	rth

    re .59
    
    well, look at it this way. when in the future anyone gives a
    seminar at the CSC they can claim it as college teaching experience.
    this should boost the availability of training at the CSC as
    more of us techies have to go the engineers into education route
    and need line items for the curriculum vitae.
    
    bk

    re .44
     
    
    that's a beaute. like someone mentioned before, i needed that today.

    re .47 - The idea of MCS being sold off is very interesting since there
    was very recently an announcment that MCS had signed an agreement to
    become a major support organization for Microsoft. And in a followup
    announcement:
    

    Digital - Followup to Microsoft support announcement. <Livewire
    8/29/94> 

    In a followup announcement, Mr. Rando was quoted as saying:

    "In order to give Microsoft customers the level of support they have
    come to expect and deserve, we are embarking immediately on an
    aggressive schedule of further downsizing in all MCS groups."

    This was clearly in response to Bob Palmer's recent remarks (8/11) to
    the  Digital Board of Directors to the effect that "We'll lay off
    everybody below  VP level if that's what it takes to achieve
    profitability. We're making the tough decisions NOW."

    In a related development, E. "Shotgun" Fudd (former director of
    Language Studies for the U.S. Internal Revenue Service) was named
    Vice-President of Communications for Digital. Mr. Fudd's primary area
    of responsibility will be to clearly communicate Digital's new business
    focus both internally and externally. Commenting on his new role, Mr.
    Fudd stated: 

    "I welcome this new and exciting opportunity. Clearly, continued
    obfuscation of complex technical and management issues will play a
    large role in Digital's future.  We must continue the renewal process
    that began in June, Q4FY94, focusing on the work of continuously
    improving the organization's performance based on validating a
    leadership framework resulting from the engagement, analysis and
    synthesis of business direction as well as input from our  customers
    and stakeholders. This will require a new information management
    infrastructure as it relates to capability definition, development,
    release  and operationalization of SBUs, CDPs, and TLAs. While the task
    may seem daunting, I am confident if all Digital employees strive to
    assimilate,  emulate, and promulgate a positive response to management
    direction, goals and measurements, strategic plans, technology
    appraisals and operations plans, we will succeed even as we have in the
    past!"            
                                                                        
    

    This JOB is a TEST
    
    It is ONLY a TEST
    
    Had it been an actual JOB,
    
    You would have received
    
    Bonuses, Raises, and Promotions.
    
    
    Discover hanging on a cubical in the PSC (are whats left of it) in SCA.

    
    	Look guys life is tough. We need to deliever services better. You
    know services, so let's tell the company how to do it better. And
    hiring bizillions of people is not the answer. We can't afford it.
    Everything else is open for discussion.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    It sure would be nice to see a breakdown of costs vs a 
    competitor.  We are frequently told that our salaries are
    the major reason MCS costs are higher than our competition.
    That and overtime and parts consumption.  I know one competitor
    that buys used equipment on the open market to use as spares.
    Hard to compete when our cost for an HDA is $2-3K and theirs
    is $300.
    

    Greetings all from the tip of the digital spear,
    
    First may I welcome all of those weasels in my branch who insist on
    giving me a conspiratorial "I saw your note in Digital today." 
    
    Greyhawk,
    
    I have a couple thoughts in reaction to your note.
    
    Thought #1: Now that all the 900 management people (1 manager to 20
    people 18,000 fse's?? ) maybe we'll get some sort of direction from them 
    of where Digital is heading service-wise. Getting rid of field service,
    going with the Sun style contracting out of service or gutting the
    service organization. Whatever they are going to do they ought to do it
    quickly because unlike sales wherer the action is over when the po is
    cut we need to be able to funcion predicably over YEARS. We sell
    contracts that stipulates that we'll be on-site with fixes within
    a certian time. We've been payed up front for what we've been told
    we'll do. I guess we've got plenty of practice in this exercise after
    the mips/osf "change of heart."
    
    Thought #2: You mentioned we want more people hired. It appears (based
    on nothing but what I've seen and read in notes) that field service is
    being gutted to the point where I wonder what level of service we are 
    going to deliver. The thing I wonder is why are they changing a
    orgaization that works and makes a profit. I understood when we sold
    the disk drive buisness because they are a ruthless specialized
    buisness that required alot of investment to stay with the pack (though
    I would not have sold the DLT piece which I happen to think is the best 
    in the industry with the sky being the limit for the future) or even
    the RDB buisness which wasn't being funded enough to be more than a 
    installed base only thing. Service is working and making money with
    virtually no investment. 
    
    Though #3: If there is something that is driving down the profit in 
    services its the market we've created for 3rd party maintence with
    former dec trained people. Recently we needed a VMS crash analysed and
    the only people who could do it locally didn't work for Digital
    anymore! These people are now competition. If we were to write a
    contract that says we need the ability to do something like that
    locally we'd not be able to do it! Where's the benefit there?
    
    Anyways we out here on the tip (or at least me) am baffled at what is
    happening to us. I'm just glad noone's said anything about these
    changes in any of the internet newsgroups...
    
    Fred Mudgett

    greetings all from the left tip of the northern iceberg. (i couldn't
    resist fred).
    
    what fred says in -1 is accurate and all inclusive organization wise.
    every attempt by many here to create a competitive environment was
    ripped apart by mangement, most of which are hundreds of miles and many
    layers away from me. those are the same people who decide whether ornot
    they need to keep me employed or not. i've not personnaly met a single
    one of them.
    
    i've said it before and i mean it more now than ever. its very painful
    to watch DEC destroy itself from within. we seem to be EXTREMELY good
    at building bridges between organizations that absolutely penalize
    their cooperation and do everything to force internal competition. at
    the expense of our collective good. 

    re:64
    
    There ARE people who know how to deliver services better. They are 
    continually PUSHING THE ROPE to change the way we deliver services.
    But it's WRONG to eliminate the people delivering the services today
    before you define the way we are going to deliver services in the
    future. It's also worng to SELL a service before it's known if that
    service can be delivered, that only set's up the service delivery
    agents to fail.  I know, I've seen the process and the way it's being
    done. I've been involved in the designing of service delivery processes
    for the new service menu releases. Engineering was given on the average
    of two months to come up with delivery strategy, only after the offer
    managers had sometimes two years to come up with the service offer!
    this is only part of the problem.  
    Example: Process Engineering gets funded to design a service delivery
    process centered around LAN services. We want to design a LAN
    Design/installation/administration process. Engineering works off
    a requirements document, this document took well over a year with five
    offer management personnel changes during that time, each time a new
    person was brought on board, the requirements changed, ergo, the
    service delivery methodology and implementation procedure changed.
    Once the requirement's were nailed down and agreed upon by all parties,
    engineering was allowed four weeks to define/document the process.
    Engineering complained that the research alone to do the task would
    involve visiting service delivery sites to gain a better understanding
    of how the service should be delivered to maximise people usage and
    profitability. The reply from upper management in Stow was simply...
    "It's just a document! why the hell does it take that long?" With that
    attitude, the program was not allowed to 'research the correct
    implementation' but was forced to invent in a vaccum based upon what
    made the most sense. the reality of all this? Engineering designed a
    service that on paper, made sound sense, but in reality, could not be
    delivered as major assumptions were made based upon the lack of valid
    information from the service delivery organization. End result? Service
    delivery indicates that engineering has shipped another piece of junk
    that could not be delivered.  What do you do?
    
    and all the time this was going on, unbeknownst to engineering, another
    process to define the individual service delivery procedures was being
    thought out and re-designed. Did any of the engineers doing the lan
    work know of this? You would think so, but alas, it was not to be.
    
    There is TOO MUCH reactionary management going on right now, and not
    enough emphasis being placed upon the thought process FIRST! Reason?
    Talented people are stiffled from the FACT that if you rock the boat in any
    way shape or form, your OUTA HERE!
    
    I KNOW!  I ROCKED THE BOAT....constantly! I challenged the mentality
    of what was going on, what was my reward for wanting to do a
    professional job?   T F S O in May!  (by the way, this was the way
    the decision process worked for the last round in MCS!) Thank goodness
    for me and Digital, that an engineering manager found out about this, 
    knew of my talents and offered me a challenge to help his organization
    succeed!  I thought about it deeply before I accepted, as I knew I
    could make more $$$ going somewhere else, but my loyalty is with
    Digital, and I want them to succeed! It's just so frustrating to see
    that with all the downsizing that's gone on in the recent years, the
    majority of what caused Digital to be where it is today IS STILL AROUND
    and in GREATER POWER THAN BEFORE. Digital is no different from the US
    government in many ways. Try to change Congress or the senate for the
    good of the country. In most cases, depending on your tactics, youll
    DIE TRYING!
    It's Palmer's job.......he did a wonderful thing hiring Enrico for the
    PC group. I think they will succeed. We need that change in MCS too
    if we are ever to get through this knothole.
    
    Chet

>    	Look guys life is tough. We need to deliever services better. You
>    know services, so let's tell the company how to do it better. And
>    hiring bizillions of people is not the answer. We can't afford it.
>    Everything else is open for discussion.
    
	How does one deliver services better when the trained and operational
	people are TFSO'ed so that the service suffers?  Who are you going to
	hire?  College students on a part time basis?  Right.  Good level of
	service there.  We don't need to hire "bizillions" of people - we do
	need to KEEP the highly trained people doing the job right now (or
	were before the last round of TFSO).  The only real problem Digital
	has right now is the same they have had for over twenty years and that 
	is simply manageral incompetence.

	The only reason Digital has succeeded in the past, IMHO, is because of
	the dedication and integrity of the service providers IN SPITE OF the
	so-called management.  When management thinks they know more of what is
	going on in the front lines than the people in the front lines...

    re: .11
    
    >>capacity" because the district support org would take over the internal
    
    	and within 6 months the TFSO'ed  ALL of them in certain districts.
    
    I was one of those support engineers that sucked into an EXPERTISE
    CENTER for OLTP.  The managers in these districts are a bunch of
    hardware techies that think they still know how you should handle your
    call load, but haven't got a flickted clue as to how to manage **ANY**
    organization.  I have seen VERY FEW exceptions to this in the last 10
    years!  
    
    You MCS folks may end up working for your arch-enemy Bell-Atlantic or
    Grummond or some other TPM company!
    
    Me.  I've been sold to Oracle.
    
    Mike A.

    <<< Note 3385.12 by CSC32::D_STUART "Keep it clean, close and loaded" >>>
                               -< what boat??? >-

            <<< Note 3385.11 by CSC32::M_EVANS "skewered shitake" >>>

    
    Oh goody!  who is steering the boat?



	What boat???



	Dick...
	  
	   one of the few, the proud, the endangered, a hardware support type!!


	the tfso'd...they let me know yesterday...so best of luck to everybody 
	that is left fixing and supporting disk/tape and printer hardware.

	Dick...formerly of CX03 hardware support

    
    Pendulum swingeth back a little the other way?
    
    Boy, this is getting more interesting as time goes on here...Manager
    tells me this morning wer'e gonna do Optical support again!
    I am the last of the "internal Disk support" folks at Colorado CSC, and
    it seems there has been a change of support to the field regarding
    "traditional" vs. non-traditional products. Apparently this is ongoing
    regarding whats what. I think the squeaky wheel is getting greased
    here.
    We will supposedly now do internal support on RW5XX series Optical
    Jukeboxes for DEC badged employees...
    Hope to see something official on this ASAP.
    Anybody else want anything from the field regarding support for
    internal products! Like I said previous....turn up the heat if you
    think it was a wrong decision.

    re .-1 - the 'Bobbitt' solution....

    I recently recieved an a1 from my boss (and his boss..etc) asking for
    input based on a mail message from .-2, so I'm gonna assume that at
    least somebody is thinking about what a short sighted move it was to
    kill off 'colorado'.
    
    The CSC's are (were?) one of the advantages that justified our pricing
    to customers. If I can't fix it in a timely fashion, I (used to?) know
    that only a phone call away, there was an "expert" to help out. And at
    2 a.m., blurry-eyed, looking (but not quite focusing on) at something
    I'd never seen before, I sure was glad that the CSC knew about it.
    
    Granted, the Field has grown tremendously in technical ability, while
    the products have gotten better and better, but don't cut off a real
    advantage just because some short-sighted "manager" decided that the
    CSC's don't pay for themselves.
    
    My two cents...
    .mike.

    I've heard rumours that the CSC is no longer limiting itself to its
    original charter, but has now expanded out and is competing with other
    departments by offering consulting, upgrades, etc.  I'd think this a
    conflict, when clients and digits are waiting extended periods of time
    for call-backs, were it found to be true.

    The CSCs in the past have offered/done and still do consulting,
    configurations, installations, upgrades, and deliveries.  This is not
    new.  Most requests come through the local Digital Sales office or are
    worked through the local Sales office when identified as a need by the
    CSC when dealing with a customer problem.  Last year I delivered over
    70K (Digital dollars) to 10 customers, mostly on the customer's site. 
    This was 70K+ that would have been lost, and in most cases was
    resolving a customer problem that only the CSC had a resource
    available.  There are groups/teams within the CSCs that do only 
    customer delivery.   Specialists are not taken from the phones to do
    delivery where the support business will suffer.  If a group/team has
    extended call-back times, then I would doubt they are off doing
    customer delivery.  
    
    dp

         I guess I'm back in business, but for how long, who knows?
    We recently recieved internal communication stating that internal
    support would be turned back on for a list of "non-traditional"
    products to Deccies, but only for Disks, tapes and printers on an
    8 X 5 M-F basis with NO STANDBY. Mixed Vendor equipment also had a
    restrictive list, but I've been informed that this is "in flux"
    to be finalized by this Wednesday.
         I believe that the heat from the field is what is reversing this
    previously incomprehensible decision from on up high.
    So my .02 cents worth is this, if you need the support, make sure
    your managers, engineering teams, and customers let the CSC know 
    about it in no uncertain terms. If your'e not paying for it, then
    set in motion the means to do so, if your'e not sure who pays for
    it, go and find out. 
    But above all, do not let our customers suffer due to internal process
    problems.
         I've been written to regarding a previous memo that I sent to all
    the DM's, had my hands slapped and told not to send out any more memos,
    and had some pretty good responses from UM's and others about the
    direction that is being handed down lately.
    I still believe that I'm on the right track, having spent 14 years in
    field service. I know when technical help is needed and when we needed
    it, we needed it NOW, and with a minimum of hassle.
    To deny support to DIGITAL employees is a travesty of what this company
    has excelled at in MCS. Its what sets us apart from the also-rans.
    I'll get down off my soapbox now...
    Steve (last of the disk support in IISG)
    

    
    re -.1 ... Bravo, Steve!  Well said, in all ways.
    
    As I might have stated previously, Digital is following WANG's
    footsteps exactly regarding support...and we know where they lead.

SCI's CEO and Larry Walker were here at ASO today to give us the pep talk.

Walker esentially said that Digital's core competancy was in engineering
and marketing, not manufacturing. (look out Worldwide Manufacturing, if I read
this right you're all on the block)

SCI's CEO said (reading between the lines here, also IMHO) we're gonna squeeze
hard and see what happens, reduced benefits (Our benefits are 85% of Digitals),
salary cuts, from the Direct Labor up through the management ranks. But hey
you're going to get a paycheck (for a while at least).

Gee sounds so positive to me :-)

dave

	One of our core competancies is in MARKETING??????

	Gee, Where have I been??

						mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael A. Foley                      foley@axel.zko.dec.com
Internet AlphaServer Project          AXEL::FOLEY
Integrated Servers Group              W: 603.881.2176
DEC Internal home page:               http://axel.zko.dec.com/~foley/foley.html
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|			      *Formerly in VMS Development*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    	Sounds like Larry Walker is on the same stuff they're putting in
    our water - MARKETING? He's got to be kidding. Methinks it was a
    Freudian slip.
    
    	Reduce benefits, cut salary, boost output - sounds like ASO got
    one hell of a pep talk. That would sure do it for me. :*) I feel
    much better knowing I own Solectron stock...
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    Probably a typo, 'MARKERING' instead of MARKETING. See, the 'R' and 
    'T' are so close together on the keyboard.
    
    MARKERING is when you take a magic ( or unmagic ) marker and 
    label things as in a yard sale/tag sale/etc.   
    
    jc

    got a call today from a friend at a competitor...
    
    he had "heard" that Willy Shih left and went to Silicon Graphics!
    
    any positive or negative collaboration?
    
    Randy
    

    
    	Absolutely and totally TRUE. I know the whole story, but pledged to
    secrecy. Not all that glamorous anyway. It was a good move for Willy
    in any case. And Digital is NOT going to suffer for it, believe me...
    
    		the Greyhawk

    willy's going away party was held a few weeks ago...myself & others
    were invited, but I had other things going on.  His move to SGI is
    well known.
    
    Mark