Conference 7.286::digital

And before anyone jumps me on this one, I disagree most strongly with this "DEC
is dead" appraisal.  I am concerned, however, that the perception of customers
and external consultants is leaning this way, because we are taking soooooooo
loooong to get our house in order.  Despite of all the wonderful products coming
down the pipeline, it's items like this, and the recent WSJ article on the 9000
that are really doing a number on customer perceptions of DEC.  This is real
stuff that we are having to counter.

I always get bothered when I read things like this.

Does anyone (either reading this conference, or the customer who paid $50K
for the "analysis") ever stop to think that what was written by the
"analyst" at the consulting firm is basically a matter of opinion? Does
anyone consider the fact that the guy could be totally ill advised with
respect to the real facts of the matter?

I don't put a lot of stock in "analysts" and "consultants". I suggest that
those who do should reread "The Emperor's New Clothes".

I'm not saying that there aren't problems in DEC. But I seriously doubt
that external consultants have a real clue as to what the issues are or
how major customers should react. Note that the customer in this case
is $50K poorer and the consulting firm is $50K ahead for their opinions.

Maybe I should sell myself as an analyst to advise customers on how to save
$50K.

-Jack

    The question is not "do analysts say sensible things?".  The question
    is "do DEC's potential customers believe that analysts say sensible
    things?".   The evidence is that they do, and therefore (unfortunately)
    it requires some sort of reaction when said analysts start saying
    that DEC is on the skids.

    Jack,
    
    You didn't say a thing that I disagree with.
    
    BUT ...
    
    Whether you like it or not, our customers, ALL our large customers,
    routinely pay $60K (what these people actually paid) and more for such
    studies.  Furthermore, whether you like it or not, once they've paid
    the $60K they tend to take the contents to heart.  
    
    I might point out that some of what I quoted wasn't the consultants'
    opinion, but was statement of fact (i.e. a reorganization that's more
    than 2 years and still going).  The inclusion of such facts merely
    boosts the credibility of the study in the customer's eyes.
    
    If this is not an isolated occurance, then Digital has a serious
    problem.
    
    Steve

Why not send this information to your VP and explain the circumstances?
Somebody with some clout should be addressing this horsesh*t...

								paul

	... in the first several pages of the White Pages?  :>)

	Steve, in would be interesting to know if DEC:

		a) has competed with and beaten;
		b) is competing with and winning;
		c) will be competing with and is favored

in any "SI" business?  Even if not, perhaps this outfit is getting scared
enough to start smearing us in their "independent" evaluations.

	The one alluded to in my first sentence would do it in a heartbeat!

	Someone in DEC is in charge of "Big 8" relations, and they need to
know about this!

    This nothing new!!  This is business as usual for large corporations
    considering large purchases.  50K is peanuts.  They may simply be
    looking for a second out-of-house opinion.  The problem is that the
    statements are generally correct.
    
    .....but not to worry, I have from an inside source that we are going
    to appoint several new vice-presidents to directly address issues like
    this.

There is a more subtle problem here.  Anyone who has ever dealt with
management type consultants know that they NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER
NEVER NEVER NEVER put anything in a report other than what the person
who paid for the report wants to hear.  You can be sure that in
.0's mystery company there is someone who told the analyst that they
are not comfortable working with DEC.  This smells of True Blew Bigots.

    re: Escalate?
    
    Didn't I mention that the account manager is bringing in seniour DEC
    VPs to the account?  That's escalation.
    
    re: white pages
    
    Handled offline via mail.
    
    re: all
    
    Yeah, I know it's the way these consultants are.  This is a case of a
    good DEC customer being told by 'independent experts' that there are
    problems at DEC.  Of course, 'independent' and getting $60K are
    mutually exclusive.
    
    But what bothers me is that they're mostly right insofar as the
    problems they mentioned.  It IS a good thing they aren't inside to see
    the ones they don't know about.
    
    So let's fix our problems and get on with it!
    
    Steve

    
    	Strange how this highly paid consulting firm looks at DEC down
    sizing as a problem while IBM who has been doing the same sort of
    thing for MUCH longer is not a problem. It seems most if not ALL
    of the things they said were wrong with DEC are also true of IBM.
    They also overlooked IBMs poor record in the com area.
    	Thid outfit made 60k for this??? Did some other company add
    to that income? I must be working in the wrong part of this 
    computer field.
    Jeff Filer

    Sounds to me like <customer> got some sound advice!   Nothing in
    that excerpt is untrue.   If half of what I read in this Notes file
    is to be believed, the report is not as scathing as it might have been.
    Notice, it doesn't mention morale problems does it?
    
    If I were a CEO/CIO/whatever, Digital would be at the top of my
    vendor list.   No doubt about it, our products, architectures,
    services and the vast majority of our people are world-class!!!
    However, given the state of Digital's business health, track record
    and strategies to recover and frankly the current state of disarray
    and (argh!) malaise, well.........................?   Am I going to
    bet my business and develop my strategies based on some sage, high
    priced consulting services from Digital?   Seriously, if Digital can help
    my company so much, why is Digital stock 30% of what it was a few
    years back, why is Digital laying people off and why do I read such
    negative stories in the WSJ and Boston Globe.........?????   Sometimes
    it doesn't seem like we can help ourselves.
    
    Well, truth be told, I'm know what our consulting capabilities are
    and in many areas they are as good or better then our competitors/
    partners in the SI business!   And I would not hesitate to use them!
    
    However, it doesn't change perceptions on the street and it certainly
    doesn't change reality on a balance sheet.
    
    There are problems!!!
    
    As for comments regarding the <consulting firm> from the first few
    pages of the white pages is concerned, last time I checked, these are
    our partners (yes it's true and I understand it doesn't always seem
    that way and it hasn't always been that way)!   This "circling the
    wagons" reaction to and discounting of the consultant's report in .0,
    serves no purpose at all!   He was paid 50K for expert opinion and
    for 50K, he's obliged to deliver it!   And he delivered a message that
    many of us fear is becoming true!   If the consulting firm in
    question is the one I think it is, it doesn't hurt to note that their
    Digital practice is expanding very quickly at the expense of their IBM
    business.   They recognize our product strengths.   There are times
    where we compete and times when we partner.   And, as much as I hate to
    admit it, there are/will be times where they provide better service
    and solutions to a customer.   We need to improve so that this becomes
    the case less often!   If the customer has concerns about Digital's
    financial viability and partnering capabilities, and a visit from a
    VP can't convince them that Digital is infact, well managed,
    well.....?    We don't deserve the business.   Regardless of these
    specific account circumstances, there is too much truth in that excerpt to
    ignore!
    
    Digital has many strengths, but it has problems too!!!
    
    We had better acknowlege this and stop the hand wringing!   Let's get
    on to fixing the problems or our friends "at the beginning of the
    white pages" will prove prophetic (as well as, profitable), won't they?
    
    Kevin

	... and it wasn't who you or I thought it was.  In fact, they are not 
SI partners, but a "pure" consulting house, all reports and seminars.

	If Steve chooses to tell the name publicly, he will in his own time.

This reply could actually go in a number of topics, but this one seems best!

I just got off the phone with someone who is looking to work with Digital as
part of an adult conversion course in telecomms. Part of the course requires
the person to work in a relevant environment. Naturally, he has done a lot of
background research in order to see which company best meets the various
criteria. Digital came out way ahead. He quoted me a couple of articles from
the UK press (Guardian and DEC User), both of which are very positive about the
company's current and expected performance. The Guardian article noted that
while IBM was sliding down a slope again with a big drop in profits, Digital's
Q3 results were a great improvement and the company is expected to continue
building on its vast network strengths and newest machines.

There seem therefore to be two messages floating around the world. In the US,
non-professional press (WSJ and the like) the company picture is dark and
discouraging. In the European non-professional *and* professional press, the
picture is much more optimistic. I don't know what the US professional press is
saying about the company since I no longer read it!. 

Maybe we should start sending copies of European articles to the Wall Street
Journal and these consulting houses...?

Gavin

    Last week's issue of "Business Week" had ,on balance, a positive
    article on Digital. Very strong on our service portfolio and network
    offerings, a bit,shall we say, "down" on our 9000 product. Actually,
    they bashed the daylights out of the 9000. 
    Never the less, an unbiased reader would have gotten a positive message
    about Digital's prospects, one of the few positive messages in the
    business press in some time.

>   <<< Note 1495.13 by EICMFG::WJONES "Commuting Loon: Autocheck-in Mode" >>>
>                   -< Let's redress the balance a little... >-

>There seem therefore to be two messages floating around the world. In the US,
>non-professional press (WSJ and the like) the company picture is dark and
>discouraging. In the European non-professional *and* professional press, the
>picture is much more optimistic. I don't know what the US professional press is
>saying about the company since I no longer read it!. 

Here's some good US news for you (from UK_LIVEWIRE on VTX today)

    TRADE SURPLUS IS POSTED IN I.T.

    THE US I.T. industry posted a sharply higher trade surplus of $609.7m for
    the first quarter of 1991.  The figures were 67 per cent higher than
    the year-earlier period, according to an industry group.

    Wall Street Journal/Europe, Brussels. 19 June 1991

re .15:

Pardon my ignorance, but what's I.T.?

>  <<< Note 1495.16 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>Pardon my ignorance, but what's I.T.?

I.T. (usually just written IT) = Information Technology (ie Computers)

Craig