T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1380.1 | When? | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Fri Feb 22 1991 13:29 | 9 |
| In order to discuss this rationally re: Digital's activities, I believe it would
be pertinent to know whether these sales/deliveries took place before or after
August 2, 1990. Is that information available? My feeling is that prior to the
Iraqi occupation of Kuwait and the ensuing UN resolutions, there were no
compelling reasons not to be doing "business as usual" with Iraq, or any other
country not under a trade embargo or export limitation of some kind.
-Jack
|
1380.2 | | GRANPA::JFARLEY | | Fri Feb 22 1991 22:37 | 7 |
| One does not need a "Trade Embargo" to not deal with a particular
country or company. If DEC or anyone else can not see what a particular
"Dictator" is doing in a third world country, then shame on them. If
dollars mean that much to our company in selling "Sadam" computer
equipment regardless of dollar amount that some "ivory tower" VP better
go see a head shrinker. There is in this case of "Iraq" in doing
"the right thing".
|
1380.3 | Mistakes happen, don't think it was deliberate decision | SUFRNG::REESE_K | just an old sweet song.... | Fri Feb 22 1991 23:37 | 25 |
| Just because we don't agree with a country/leader's politics,
doesn't mean we would refuse to sell to them because we feel
we are on a higher moral level.
The Denied Parties list is the official list that says who we
can and cannot sell to.....even then it's tricky if a couple
of countries decide to act as re-seller or intermediaries, etc.
Isn't that what happened to DEC a couple of years ago....we didn't
sell directly......there were 2 or 3 companies in between, but
DEC got hit with the fine from the Feds.
There was a rather interesting tongue-in-cheek article in the
Atlanta Journal last night stating the reason Gorbachev was
exerting such pressure to prevent a ground war is because if
Iraq totally falls.....he's lost one of his best clients.....G
Gorbachev wants to preserve what's left of the Soviet military
investment in Iraq and guarantee the Soveits a role in the
continued Middle Eastern turmoil.
I'm sure we've not been selling to Iraq since this mess started;
and before it started we thought Iran was our reason to worry in
the Mid East.
Karen
|
1380.4 | | SOLVIT::ALLEN_R | | Fri Feb 22 1991 23:42 | 14 |
| There is and always has been a problem in controlling sales of our
equipment outside the borders of the US. Its along the same lines of
selling software, people are not trained or are, but choose to ignore the
policies and procedures that are involved. We have an exports dept and
some good people that can help. But DEC makes a lot of sales every year.
I have been involved and seen cases where people within the company but
outside the US will ignore the policies of the company and the US
because they have determined it is not in any way detrimental to them
or their country to export to whomever they choose. That more
doesn't find its way into the wrong hands is a testament to those that
try to control the problem with the little resources and help they
get. It is not always possible to control the actions of resellers
and other third parties. Much of the business outside the US is not
done direct by Digital or its subsideraries.
|
1380.5 | I repeat, When? | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Sat Feb 23 1991 03:33 | 9 |
| So, I repeat my question of .1 - When did these transactions occur?
If prior to Aug 2, 1990 we would have been doing reasonable business with
Iraq just like anyone else in the world (except Iran!). If after, that's
different. If prior, what's the issue? If after, well, draw your own
conclusions . . .
-Jack
|
1380.6 | On a clear day... | AIMHI::TINIUS | My hobby is stuffing things. | Sat Feb 23 1991 18:29 | 11 |
| Re: Note 1380.2 by GRANPA::JFARLEY
> One does not need a "Trade Embargo" to not deal with a particular
> country or company. If DEC or anyone else can not see what a particular
> "Dictator" is doing in a third world country, then shame on them.
I'm glad it's so clear to you to whom we should sell or not sell. Now how
about a decision on Chile, Panama, Poland, Niger, India, Japan, Thailand,
Canada, Israel, Egypt, Ireland...
Stephen
|
1380.7 | "Rebuttal to note 6" | GRANPA::JFARLEY | | Sun Feb 24 1991 20:30 | 8 |
| Referring to note 6- It is a thing whether you want to believe it or
"having Moral Conscience". You did mention it in your own "hit" list
of countries. If you don't have some moral platitudes then let us sell
some Vax 9000's to dear old Russia, but I am sure you could raise some
objections to that. It really does matter in my book of morals, who we
sell to but I guess it doesn't matter to you. I guess the almighty
dollar must prevail to meet you sales quota for the quarter. I am just
returning your slice, should we proceed any farther?????
|
1380.8 | The difficult cases are more interesting | AIMHI::TINIUS | My hobby is stuffing things. | Sun Feb 24 1991 21:37 | 7 |
| Of course it matters to me to whom we sell our products and how they are used.
My point was that "see[ing] what a particular "Dictator" is doing in a third
world country" doesn't sound like very definitive criteria, and it's too easy.
If you think you can use a 'moral' judgment of the customer's behavior, then
what do you do in the difficult cases, for instance the countries I listed.
Stephen
|
1380.9 | | MAMTS5::MWANNEMACHER | let us pray to Him | Mon Feb 25 1991 15:39 | 6 |
|
FWIW-We stopped doing business with the Iraqi embassy after the embargo
was placed on Iraq.
Mike
|