Conference 7.286::digital

    Keep repeating, 
    
    It's not an "Alliance", it's only an "Initiative" until you 
    feel better....
    
    JMHO
    
    John W.

    re: .1
    
>    Keep repeating, 
>    
>    It's not an "Alliance", it's only an "Initiative" until you 
>    feel better....
    
    ... and, once we feel better, we can start grousing about all the
    "stupid" customers that can't seem to tell the difference.
    
    Of course, we could try to spread the good word of .0 to our customers,
    but that would require customer contact.  And, as we all know, we only
    choose to soil our palms with the handshakes of those "key" customers
    who are worth our valuable time.
    
    I'm sure Avnet et al will gladly roll into accounts across America and
    preach the truth about Digital, though.
    
    Now, let's all join together in a lively chorus of "Put on a Happy
    Face"!
    
    -- Russ

    There are actually a few good points in the .0 document, too bad they
    will never be seen by the average customer.
    
    The reality: This is a marketing win for HP, even if it has little or
    no technical value to the end-user. It will continue to be a WIN for HP
    for a long time, because:
    
    1) Digital has lost most direct contact with the customer. Few sales
    reps, no time to spend fighting off the negative perception.
    2) Digital has no counter-marketing capability. The industry analysts
    don't believe us anymore, the mainstream PC and IT magazines don't
    feature us anymore, so there's no (positive) visibility for us to
    counter the positive HP press.
    3) Digital can't even refute it in our own ads, because we can't afford
    it, and even if we could, we wouldn't react in time to make it count.
    
    My hat's off to HP, they are going to get a lot of mileage, especially
    against Digital, for this fairly minor effort.
    
    Geoff

    
    Reality check time. 
    
    Corporate agreements are one thing, but how they are implemented in the
    field are quite another. Bottom line is that Microsoft field sales are
    not going to introduce HP to many opportunities as they will fear
    losing messaging (Exchange) and account control. 
    
    No doubt HP may spend money on ads, but it won't change field Microsoft
    Sales opinions.
    
    So, lets put it behind us and move on. Lots of positive press starting
    to appear in the trade rags so lets stop beating ourselves up ! Boy,
    Digital really is our own worst critic !
    
    As an example of good trade rag exposure - extract from Windows NT
    magazine this week : http://www.winntmag.com/
    
    As reported in last week's Windows NT Magazine UPDATE,
    Microsoft said it will not wait for the new Pentium II processor to
    begin shipping a 64-bit version of NT 5.0. We also reported
    that the first 64-bit version of NT 5.0 would run on Digital
    Equipment's (DEC) Alpha processors. Since then, we've heard
    some rumors that Microsoft is buying up quite a few of the new
    DEC Alpha 500MHz machines for its development staff. And
    now that DEC is directly involved in porting Microsoft desktop
    applications to the Alpha platform, non-developers at Microsoft
    are getting in on the new Alpha fun. 
    
    All the pieces are in place for DEC to mount a full assault on
    the NT marketplace. Digital announced this week that it will
    slash prices on new Alpha systems, creating platforms for
    under $3000, and Digital also showed that its newest Alpha
    chips clock in at a whopping 533MHz. Microsoft's decision not
    to wait on Intel is a huge break for Digital; Microsoft now can
    have a two year head start on Intel by providing the only
    platform for 64-bit NT. Not only will Intel feel the pressure
    because of this decision, but so will UNIX vendors. Surveys
    show that many UNIX shops are eagerly awaiting a 64-bit NT
    platform, and with Microsoft's upcoming Wolfpack technology
    (which will begin to show up in Service Pack 3 for NT 4.0), this
    opportunity is the right high-end combination the UNIX and NT
    world have been waiting for. 

    Not so much blinked, as belched and passed wind.
    
    And, for once, we get a well crafted response from a VP such that we
    can go and throw rocks quite hard, early enough. Applause for Mr Bismuth.  
                                              
    We've topped and tailed Bismuth's note and it'll be with the customers
    very soon. It took about as much time to do as it did to type in this
    entry. So, rather than bitch and moan in here, type a letter and put as
    much spin on Bismuth's content and context as you need for your
    customer. Oh, and if you are afraid to go see your customer, you can
    use the postal service.
    
    With Merced going backwards, we can have some fun with HP for now.
    
    Shame about SUN though (see DECHIPS 659)...
    
    AW
             

This certainly seems confined at the moment to the installed HP-UX OpenMail base
which HP claim is around 2M users.

Note the level of proposed interoperability collaboration. 


Microsoft/HP announcement - Implications for Messaging Customers
================================================================

Introduction
------------

The announcement by HP and Microsoft is excellent news for everyone with
mixed HP-UX and NT environments. HP is the market leader in UNIX and is a
major NT supplier. Microsoft, the leading desktop software vendor and the
developer of NT, has acknowledged the position of HP-UX in the market and
the need to support mixed environments. The two companies have committed to
owning and resolving any interoperability issues that arise in mixed
NT/HP-UX environments. 

OpenMail positioning
--------------------

* OpenMail is HP's messaging technology for enterprise
  Internet/Intranet solutions. It fully supports internet
  standards, including SMTP/MIME, IMAP, POP3, CGI and LDAP.

* OpenMail has been designed for the enterprise market, where it
  is widely used and has proven its value.

* Custom deployment services enable HP and its partners to
  deliver Internet/Intranet solutions that meet customer needs and
  provide competitive advantage for HP.

* Strong relationships with other vendors enable HP to provide
  fully integrated solutions for complex Internet/Intranet
  environments.

* Excellent post sales support and a proven commitment to
  evolving technology make HP Internet/Intranet solutions the safe
  choice for customers.

To put it simply, OpenMail was designed for "real world" environments where
it is not possible to standardize on a single server or desktop
environment. Our relationship with other vendors, like Microsoft, plus our
support of industry standards, enables HP to deliver messaging solutions
for enterprise customers such as Amoco, Cargill, Samsung, Bellsouth and
UBS. The HP/Microsoft announcement strengthens that position, as it will
ensure early access to Microsoft technology, giving HP a time to market
advantage with support of Microsoft products, as well as high quality
integration and interoperability. 

What the announcement means
---------------------------

Email is the most widely deployed application within large enterprises. For
example, HP generates 1.5 million messages each day, transferring 3
Terabytes of data each month. Most large enterprises have mixed NT/UNIX
environments. Managing these environments is expensive and people
intensive, due to directory management, gateway technology and
interoperability issues. 

HP and Microsoft now have a common messaging strategy that will recommend
Microsoft Exchange servers for Windows NT environments and HP OpenMail
servers for HP-UX environments. Customers can use Microsoft Outlook 97,
Internet Explorer or Exchange clients to access the servers. 

In addition, HP and Microsoft will collaborate on interoperability for: 

Message content

Directories

Calendaring

Shared Storage

Security is another potential area for collaboration

 Single sign on

Message encryption between OpenMail and Exchange

Key recovery

Virus checking

Finally, HP will expand its PSO capabilities to provide messaging services
for Exchange as well as OpenMail, including: 

Assessment and implementation planning

Enterprise messaging architecture

Fast Start

Pilot

Migration Services

Enterprise Deployment

Management


OpenMail in the Marketplace
---------------------------

The HP/Microsoft initiative strengthens OpenMail's position in general.
Microsoft and HP are adopting a common messaging technology strategy, and
will recommend Microsoft Exchange Client and Microsoft Outlook as a
messaging client for both Windows NT-based Exchange Server and HP-UX-based
OpenMail Server environments. HP and Microsoft will develop tools and
procedures leveraging industry standards that provide users with reliable
messaging within mixed HP OpenMail and Microsoft Exchange Server
environments.  These tools and procedures will provide messaging services,
common calendaring, as well as directory synchronization. 

Benefits of a mixed solution
-----------------------------------

The Microsoft/HP initiative will guarantee messaging interoperability
between HP-UX and NT environments (that is, between OpenMail and Exchange).
Our customers can now safely deploy messaging solutions in mixed NT/HP-UX
environments. HP and Microsoft are committed to own and resolve
interoperability and management issues, now and in the future. 

Customers have the best of both worlds - Microsoft Exchange, the leading
NT-based messaging solution, plus OpenMail, the leading UNIX-based
messaging solution. 

Microsoft and HP are adopting a common messaging technology strategy, and
will recommend Microsoft Exchange Client and Microsoft Outlook as a
messaging client for both Windows NT-based Exchange Server and HP-UX-based
OpenMail Server environments. 

Customers can deploy NT or HP-UX messaging servers as needs dictate,
without fear of interoperability or manageability issues. 

Customers who use Microsoft products for messaging, calendaring and related
activities can protect their investment in HP-UX installations. 

This leads to improved customer satisfaction in enterprise accounts that
use Microsoft products for messaging, calendaring and related activities. 

Questions and Answers
---------------------

Q   Does HP's endorsement of Exchange mean that Openmail is going away?

A   Absolutely not.  HP has a very successful messaging business on UNIX.

   This announcement formalizes the position of both companies that we have
a common view of messaging with Exchange/Outlook as a client connected to
either Exchange servers on NT or OpenMail Servers on UNIX.  We are meeting
our joint customer needs through integration at both the server and client 
level to enable our enterprise customers to deploy successfully in a
heterogeneous environment. 

Q   How do customers decide which messaging server to use ?

A   The decision will be driven by platform decision criteria.  The
advantage of the messaging agreement means that the application does not 
dictate the choice of operating system. In our experience there are
business drivers effecting the choice of platform.  We will advise our
customers based on their business drivers. 

Q   How do I know this co-operation will continue?

A   Both companies agree on using published API's and common Internet
    standards  to ensure future interoperability.  In fact both companies
    will consider joint submittals to standards bodies to help the rest
    of messaging industry move more quickly to common Internet standards.

Q   What's happening to OpenMail on NT?

A   Our belief has been to enter markets where we can clearly differentiate
and meet our customers' needs.  Before this announcement our  customers
were asking HP to provide a heterogeneous solution covering UNIX and NT. 
This agreement means we can meet those customers needs through integration
with Exchange on NT and OpenMail on UNIX.  In our minds there  is no clear
differentiation we can make with OpenMail on NT verses Exchange on NT, so
we are very comfortable in partnering with Exchange to meet the NT
requirement. 

Q   Which one will each company recommend?  When?

A   HP and Microsoft have adopted a common view of a messaging
    infrastructure which consists of:

    - Outlook/ Exchange clients with Exchange Servers for NT-based
      server environments, and

    - Outlook/Exchange clients with OpenMail Servers for HP-UX-based
	server
      environments.

    In mixed environments in which HP and Microsoft jointly engage, HP and
Microsoft will provide customers with a choice that is driven mostly by OS
platform decision criteria. 

Q   Does this mean the customer can now have user/client transparent
    access to either an Exchange or OpenMail server?

A   This is exactly the goal.  Users will not be aware of which server they
are attached to as the functionality will be the same.  Already the
Exchange and Outlook clients are supported by OpenMail and this will be
further enhanced to cover calendering, shared storage, directories and 
message content. This will be maintained by using public API's and
leveraging the Internet standards. 

Q   Why would the customer choose HP PSO as a professional services
    organization to define his or her enterprise Exchange backbone?

A   Our existing and very substantial messaging practice has a wealth of
experience in designing and deploying enterprise backbones.  The PSO has
already deployed over 400 enterprise backbones in the F2000 all over  the
world and draws on that learning experience to help other customers. 

Q   How does this affect your relationship with Lotus?

A   HP continues to offer services around Notes and already has a sizable
installed base using cc:Mail clients connected to OpenMail. The clear trend
we see with our enterprise customers is the domination of MS at the
desktop. Our enterprise customers are therefore more interested in
integrating MS messaging technologies so this agreement reflects the 
market trend. 

    re: .4
    
    Reality check?
    
    How about this little excerpt from the Associated Press as published
    in today's Baltimore Sun (page 2c):
    
    [begin]
    
    "Microsoft's object is to penetrate the enterprise, and HP is without
    question the best vehicle to do that", Herwick said.
    
    Meanwhile, HP likely will see its sales increase as NT's popularity
    grows.  Its alliance with Microsoft also gives it an advantage over its
    rivals, notably Compaq Computer Corp., which recently began making
    workstations running NT, and Digital Equipment Corp., whose speedy
    Alpha microprocessors are designed to work with the Microsoft programs.
    
    [end]
    
    Yes, we have some real initiatives going with the low-price Alphas.
    Yes, we have real talent and experience in WNT.
    
    But...
    
    HP just won a major marketing victory.  The press seems to be drooling
    over this.  We can (and, unfortunately, must) play the spin game in .0
    to try to regain some of the ground we've lost by this annoucement, but
    many of our customers have stopped listening to us!  One day, we say
    technology Z is our long-term emphasis; the next day, we sell off all
    the products dealing in technology Z!  Many, many of our customers now
    believe that DIGITAL doesn't _really_ mean what it says.
    
    Now try to tell them that the HP "alliance" is just smoke and mirrors. 
    Get ready to hear laughter...
    
    HP just received MILLIONS of dollars of high-quality free advertising.
    Papers like the Baltimore Sun don't bother with the trivial press
    releases of most computer manufacturers.  But today, they just gave 20
    column inches of the Business Section in high praise of this announcement.
    
    Yes, we've had some recent events to give us joy.  But this is NOT one
    of them!
    
    -- Russ

    Of course the press was not so good when it came to the UNIX story. 
    Headline news three line summary, all day long, was that Microsoft and
    HP would be steering people from UNIX to NT.  I am sure that alot of HP
    reps are scrambling to explain that to the big UNIX shops
    
    
    Not that I am dismissing them as they come up to speed in the NT space.
    I think we do have a lead in getting prepared, but by the time NT
    "grows up", HP will be at strength and our lead gone.
    
    Will we be able to exploit and deliver? This is DIGITAL after all...

The message that this is only an "initiative" and not an "alliance" will
NOT be effective as a serious counter to the impact of the HP/MS deal.  
In the eyes of the press and many customers, this is an alliance.  Case in 
point, check out the attached story from today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer.  
Not only do they call it an alliance many times in the story, the opening 
paragraph calls it a "major alliance."   

Perception is reality.  And as an effective message to our customers, this
"not an alliance" response is not playing in Peoria or Seattle.  

Maribeth

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thursday, March 20, 1997
Source: SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER from Dialog via Individual Inc. : Microsoft
Corp. is expected to announce tomorrow a major alliance with
Hewlett-Packard aimed at making workplace computers cheaper to operate and
maintain.

The two industry giants will integrate their products more tightly so that,
for example, an administrator can fix other computers on the network from a
central machine without touching the others, according to reports in
computer industry trade publications.

Hewlett-Packard is one of the largest PC manufacturers; Microsoft is the
world's largest software company. The announcement of their alliance
coincides with Microsoft's Developer Days, a daylong event at which the
company will unveil new tools to an estimated 45,000 software developers in
45 countries around the world.

The HP alliance is the latest of several moves Microsoft has made recently
with the same broad goal of reducing computers' overall ownership costs.

Last week Microsoft announced a new ``zero administration kit'' for its
premier office operating system, Windows NT Workstation. And with microchip
giant Intel Corp. it published specifications of the planned ``NetPC,'' a
new desktop computer designed for easier central management.

The moves are part of a campaign Microsoft announced last fall aimed at
reducing computer systems' total cost of ownership, which has soared in
recent years even as raw computing power dropped dramatically in price.

While a fast Pentium-based computer sells today for about the same price as
a sluggish 386 machine several years ago, the overall cost of managing
computers in the workplace has been driven skyward by such factors as
hardware and software installation, training employees and fixing their
mistakes.

Simple economics dictates that making PCs easier and cheaper to manage will
enlarge the market for them - and, consequently, for Microsoft's software.

Not coincidentally, the cost-reduction initiative, along with the NetPC
plan, also takes direct aim at the ``network computer'' touted by Oracle
Corp. and Sun Microsystems as a simpler, less expensive alternative to the
PC.

The two Silicon Valley companies are among Microsoft's loudest critics and
hope their device can loosen its hold on the market; Microsoft software
controls 80 percent to 90 percent of the world's personal computers.

The jury is still out, but the network computer faces some high hurdles.
Information Week magazine reported last week that Compaq Computer Corp.,
the world's largest PC supplier, has abandoned its plans to build network
computers and will focus instead on the NetPC and reducing costs for
traditional PCs.

Many manufacturers are expected to announce NetPC products over the next 90
days, Microsoft said last week. Entry-level products are expected to be
priced below $1,000. They will include features to allow remote management
and repair, as well as automatic software updates when they aren't being
used. They will be housed in sealed cases so that users cannot change them.

They will include hard-disk drives for data storage. A floppy drive is
optional, but Microsoft and Intel recommend against it because it provides
an entry point for viruses and potentially damaging software.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Individual, Inc.]

    Yes and then there's the article in the business section of today's 
    USA TODAY with the title "Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard form alliance"
    done in 36 Point Bold, complete with pictures.  
    
    We were mentioned - but not until paragraph six.
    
    Later,
    
    Gary

    
    
    But then there's this from PC Week
    
    
    HP also will begin providing service and support programs that are
    centered on Microsoft Windows NT products-mirroring an agreement
    already in place between Microsoft and Digital Equipment Corp. "HP is
    looking at the relationship between Microsoft and Digital as a threat.
    They're trying to get on equal footing with that," said King.
    
    How equal that footing will be is a big question, however, said Brandon
    Mussler, an analyst at New York-based Illuminata Inc. "HP is trying to
    displace DEC as Microsoft's Premier Partner, but DEC has exclusive use
    of a logo'd program with Microsoft," Mussler said
    
    

Then there's the Compaq/Microsoft "Frontline Partnership" as advertised in the
March 17 PC Week (pages 70-71).  "Compaq and Microsoft for Enterprise
Computing".

Our "Alliance" seems less and less special each day.

At yesterday's "Microsoft Developer Days", Digital was barely mentioned - not
at all in the Gates keynote session.  (Gates did, however, attribute Windows
NT great TpmC ratings to "new fast chips from Intel" - and here I thought they
had been generated on an AlphaServer...)

					Steve

    Re .12, your mileage varied depending on the local Dev Days location. 
    Digital got good billings by the Seattle event.
    
    --svb

    Is it me or is the HP/MS "Alliance" getting much more general press
    coverage than the Digital/MS "Alliance" got...
    
    John W.
    
    And if we cross licensed Patents to MS and the same MS engineers
    working with us are working with HP, can the MS engineers discuss 
    our technology with HP engineers?  Can the MS engineers discuss HP's 
    technology with us?  Maybe Microsoft wants us all to be one big 
    happy family and share our technologies with everyone. Maybe we need
    to send some of our clustering engineers over to HP and brief them 
    on our latest technologies and forth comming products in case the 
    MS engineers don't have the full story...
    
    JW.
    
     

Funny: apart from our response in .0, "DIGITAL" was only mentioned once, in .8, 
and not at all in the press release excerpts, where "Digital Equipment" and 
"DEC" seem popular.

Of course, they're all wrong and we're right, they just don't know it. 8-(

PJDM

From:

http://www.cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9703/20/gates_platt/


Hopkins: Mr. Gates, you have other alliance, one with Digital Equipment . 
What does this alliance...does it kind of supersede the Digital alliance? 
Are you planning on doing alliances with other computer companies? 

Gates: Well, Microsoft's strategy is very dependent on alliances. We're 
focused on our core competence, which is building high volume software 
products, in particular, Windows, Windows NT, Office, and Back Office. And 
so HP is an ideal partner for us. They've not only got the system strength 
but they've got the support in the field. They've got the consulting 
capabilities in the field. 

Many, many customers who buy from both of us, have been asking us to work 
together in a number of new ways. And we've taken all of those requests and
put those together in the more than a dozen new things we're doing together 
here. We'll continue to have the other partners. Fortunately there's enough
demand in the market place that there's room for everybody we're working 
with to be quite successful.

  I said it (obliquely) back in 4613.0 and I'll say it again:

  Microsoft is watching out for Microsoft's interests.
  We are *WAY* down on their list of concerns. This is
  one of the reasons I get so annoyed when our "leadership"
  toadies up to Microsoft as in the "Exchange" example.

                                   Atlant

    Note how Gate's answer never mentioned even our name once.  This guy
    should be a politician.  Utter a lot of words and never really say
    anything!

+    MICROSOFT-HP NT ANNOUNCEMENT TURNS OUT TO BE DAMP SQUIB 

After all the overheated and hysterical hyping of the event, 
Hewlett-Packard Co and Microsoft Corp pulled out the merest 
mouse of an agreement to get closer on Windows NT, simply 
affirming that HP needs to step up its NT effort in order to 
sell more personal computers and leap into the top three 
manufacturers worldwide, and that Microsoft, which is weak in 
consultancy and support, and not prepared to invest very much 
in it, needs all the skills that it can rally from partners 
such as HP. The agreement doesn't even seem to do very much to 
put Digital Equipment Corp's nose out of joint. Hewlett-Packard 
made all the right noises, saying it would "aggressively 
integrate" Windows NT with its computers, and that it would 
develop a a NetPC to the standards established by Microsoft and 
Intel Corp, to be shipped in the second half of 1997 and priced 
at about $1,000 - but it was careful to say that, as a company 
twice the size of Compaq Computer Corp, it could afford to 
support both Unix and NT equally. The agreement on Microsoft 
Exchange is only that the two will ensure that it interoperates 
with HP OpenMail where preview material had suggested Hewlett 
would favor the Microsoft offering over its own. Microsoft is 
to make its DirectX multimedia package available under HP-UX 
Unix. Separately, Novell Inc said it had an agreement with 
Microsoft to incorporate its linguistic technologies into 
future Microsoft products, billing it a "multimillion-dollar" 
agreement. And Rational Software Corp unveiled software based 
on its Rational Rose visual modeling language for use with 
Microsoft's Visual Basic, the fruits of a development and 
marketing collaboration with Microsoft.

    
    
    The only reason MicroSoft has the alliance with us is so we 
    will push our customer base to Win NT.  Period. They want
    us to get our VMS base converted to NT ASAP, before someone
    else gets to our key Fortune 500 accounts.  Eight years
    ago when we re-entered the PC space, the industry leaders
    (IBM and Compaq) and many analysts thought we were a 
    potential threat if we could ever get our act together.  
    Within the first three years we grew to number 10 worldwide 
    (Jan 1993).  Since then Olivetti, Tandy, and Zenith all blew up.  
    But we're still number 10.  HP, Acer and Packard Bell all 
    flew by us in the last three to four years.  
    
    MS has aliances with everybody, it's in their best interest.  
    Intel PC hardware is nothing more than a low cost delivery case 
    for MS software.  Don't try to kid yourself that we do anything
    special, or that MS gives us any special treatment as a
    "partner".   
    
    We had a good shot, but missed a golden opportunity.  Jim
    Lui didn't have a clue, and 'Rico blew it big time.  The 
    PCBU is currently listing back in the Corporate malaise.  
    Getting things done faster and cheaper like we did in the early 
    days is nearly impossible with the current corporate structure.
    Look where John Rose landed.  Compaq will reach $30B by the
    year 2000.  Digital has re-structured thru down-sizing only.  
    We have not really re-engineered any of the legacy problems.
    
    We got one more shot to get it right, but their aren't
    enough of the original gang left to influence the changes
    needed or put get back to the things that worked well. 
    I recently almost packed it in and resigned, but will give 
    it one more try.
    
    Hope we have enough time left. The next six months will tell.
    
    Gary B. 

    re: Note 5194.14 by SCASS1::WISNIEWSKI
    
    It's not you, but simply an indication of the large discrepancy in
    mindshare between DIGITAL and other computer makers.
    
    Ken....

    re: .22
    
>    re: Note 5194.14 by SCASS1::WISNIEWSKI
>
>    It's not you, but simply an indication of the large discrepancy in
>    mindshare between DIGITAL and other computer makers.
    
    I agree with Ken, but let's make it more specific:
    
    Microsoft is considered a huge force in the industry (with reason).
    
    HP is considered a very large force in the industry (with reason).
    
    DIGITAL is NO LONGER considered a particularly large force in the
    industry (with reason, unfortunately).
    
    DIGITAL smells an awful lot like UNISYS to a lot of people.  A former
    giant in the industry (or in the UNISYS case, multiple giants) which has
    taken on the role of a cowtowing lackey, content with its future life
    of perpetual servitude to the newer, younger giants which have come on
    the scene.
    
    The media is a-buzz about the HP-Microsoft announcement because two
    superstars have hammered out a very delicate wedding agreement which
    either one could walk away from and still survive.  Kinda like the
    marriage of Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.  The DIGITAL-Microsoft
    agreement, by comparison, looks like the willful servitude of a weaker
    player to the stronger.  It looks like an announcement that Madonna has
    taken on a new slave; it appears in the inner pages of seedier
    tabloids and then is quickly forgotten by all but the primary parties.
    
    What can be done?  DIGITAL needs to develop a thriving life of its own
    -- apart from Microsoft.  This is NOT to say that we should back out of
    NT or any such thing, but that we SHOULD make a place for ourselves in
    this industry that is not solely reliant on the good will of Bill and
    company.  We should have Microsoft AND our own lives -- like HP does.
    
    We had OpenVMS.  We still have Digital Unix.  We could have Linux/Alpha.
    Or anything else...
    
    The new, low cost Alpha strategy could be a huge help.  But even then,
    we won't get the volumes we need unless the industry thinks we'll be
    around in the future.  A Digital Semiconductor vs Intel scenario might
    be playable IFF we have HIGHLY aggressive marketing AND a corporate
    presence beyond our current perception of a fallen giant.
    
    We need a strategy that is more than eternal reverence to Microsoft,
    or no one will take us seriously!
    
    -- Russ

RE: .18

	It would not surprise me if Bill Gates ran for high political
	office in about 15 years. 

RE: the "agreement"

	If you look at what we have to offer and what HP has to offer,
	we are in a MUCH better position. Note the tone of the HP 
	announcement. They are hyping it like no tomorrow, but if you
	read it, it's all "HP Unix" and "OpenMail" forever. Their only
	goal is to make it easier to have Microsoft stuff in an HP shop.
	Their only platform that runs Microsoft stuff is Pentium-based.

	Really, we ARE in a stronger position, however, my faith in
	senior management to execute from that stronger postion is gone.
	It is our lead to lose, just like 64-bit and VLM, both of which
	are facing PERCIEVED competition from the likes of SUN and others.

	There is no excuse for us not to bury SGI, SUN and HP's PA-RISC
	platforms. However, I don't believe that the senior managment
	AND the Board of Directors is able at this time to fix the
	problems that keep us from doing just that.

	We've got the product.
	We've got the engineering talent
	We've got the people (less and less, but we still have good ones)

	What we don't have is the market. Yes, I'm going to say it again,
	we couldn't market free $100 bills. If we don't fix that, we
	deserve to be another UNISYS.

							mike

    >We had OpenVMS.  We still have Digital Unix.  We could have Linux/Alpha.
    >Or anything else...
    
    Excuse me... We still have OpenVMS which year after year continues to 
    provide the meager profits that run this 13 billion dollar company... 
    
    When Digital Unix is providing a lion's share of the profit and cash flow 
    for this company I'll concede that we have a real Unix Card to play...
    
    
    JMHO
    
    John W.
    
    

Russ,

  I agree with your comments about "Digital needing to develop a thriving
life of its own". We're pinning our hopes and placing too much control of our
future with MicroSoft and what MicroSoft does with Windows NT. There are a 
couple of things that come to my mind when I think about what Corporate has
done. With their decisions and actions over the last few years (dismantling of
Digital sales organization, De-emphasis of OpenVMS, etc.), they've placed (and
blessed) all of our eggs (our future) in the hands of MicroSoft. What 
happens if let say, MicroSoft really botches (I doubt this happening, but it is
a possibility) NT in the enterprise. They continue releasing buggy
version of the OS and customers "get scared off/away" and NT gets a bad 
reputation? Where is our future then? Or, on the other hand, MicroSoft decides i
they don't want to support ALPHA anymore (I think this one is a possibility)?
Where are we then? 
 
  I think because of the decisions/actions over the last few years, that yes
we are preceived in the industry as being a "weak/non" player. We have placed
(and still appearing to do so) our future in the hands of others.
 We still have our
loyal customer base (at least some of them), my customers have been screaming
about OpenVMS, they've been paying the bills, but no one at Corporate has been
listening to them. Instead we've been listening to Mr. Gates and Company, who
really doesn't care about the future of Digital. I also believe that some of the
leaders in this company, still haven't come down to earth (for a reality check),
are arrogant, think that we are perceived in the publics eye as being "the best"
and refuse to listen to anyone else, but themselves --- they're in their own 
little world and don't realize that their paychecks and ours depend on customers
buying our products. Most customers don't want to buy the fastest widget in 
the world, but customers do want a solid partner and who is a leader (not a
follower) at "somethings" (not everything). A partner who is "stable", whom
they can trust and turn to for solving their problems (on our account, Sun's
customers stuck by them... even when Sun had the "slowest" boxes around ... and
Sun is giving HP a run for their money... we're currently a non-player - UNIX
space) The messages we've been sending out over the last few years has been the
opposite. We really haven't acted nor appeared to act, like we "want to play
with the big boys" in this market. 


At this stage, we need to do some "high profile" things that will convince
the industry that Digital is serious about staying in business. What are those?
I don't know, maybe by pulling in the "best" talents from outside the 
company to "re-shape" the marketing, internal organizations, the way we do
business...to "change some attitudes at the top"? Most importantly, quit
changing directions all the time, quit "pulling the rugs out from underneath
everyone", stablize the workforce, consistent presence at large customer
accounts etc. Make decisions (smart ones) and stick with them. Don't put all
of our eggs in one basket, differentiate ourselves (I mean really differentiate)
from the competition, listen to customers (especially our loyal ones),
understand their concerns, engage your employess, ask them to contribute and 
be sincere about listening to them and their ideas. Believe in your workforce,
empower them (I mean really empower them), don't just "give words for the day".

Ford (I've told this story so many times before) Motor Company (much larger
than we are) in their turnaround, back in the early 80's did exactly this. They
were nearly bankrupt, had shoddy products (I'm not saying that we have shoddy
products) and their management had a perception that everything was just fine
up until they started losing money (big money). Mr. Phillip Caldwell (who 
used to be on our BOD), took control of the company and "woke" upper management
up. They went out into the public and learned that their previous arrogant 
attitudes were unjustified, customers thought their cars were junk (which they
were), they sincerely "engaged their employees" to help them solve problems,
boy did this open uppper managements eyes, those employees that they once
thought of as being nothing but "low life robots" working in plants, were
actually smart, hard working individuals, who had ideas that their "white
collar" engineers (who most of which never worked in a plant before) would have
never thought of, to save Ford money in manufacturing and assembly. Well the
rest is history, Ford turned it around, were golden during the 80's and made 
lots of money. Digital has its field sales, NSIS, and service (all of which are
close to the customers), engineering, manufacturing and marketing organizations.
 
Why haven't these resources been tapped to work together on really "fixing" the
problems in this company? I know that I have a lot of ideas (having worked in 
the field for ages... now) and I'm sure that others do to, on how to work on
solving this companies problems. Up till now, every idea, every solution has
come out of Corporate and corporate alone, get rid of the arrogance, time to
really get down to business.


enough, I'm done for now.



RC

    
    Albeit, we have had a few (?) problems over the last while, but there
    are a few positive issues which we should all consider :
    
    - Microsft wants 64bit NT even more than we do. The data warehousing,
    OLAP and data mart markets are all key to their future plans for moving
    much deeper into the enterprise. These markets are currently based on
    platforms that have typical TPC ratings of > 15,000 or higher. By year end,
    it is likely that high end TPC ratings will be approx 60,000+ for 64bit 
    platforms. Oracle is planning even higher numbers than this. They 
    stated at recent NT symposium that they shortly (before year end?) hope 
    to do a 100,000 tpc benchmark.
    
    The highest TPC rating for any NT platform is currently approx 7,300. 
    
    - Intel platform futures. Both Pentium II and P7 (Merced) have been
    delayed. Pentium II (233Mhz) likely to be later this year and P7 to 1999 
    at the earliest - based on actual Intel announcements. Intel is also being
    seriously challenged by both the NC/thin client (AMD/Cirrus/Strong Arm)
    for future markets.
    
    NOTE - keep in mind that the P7 will be based on IA-64 architecture
    with x86 "emulation". This means an entire new port of OS & app's will be
    required to take advantage of P7 native performance. Currently, the
    NT64 stuff is all being done on Alpha, with the IA-64 stuff being
    ported when systems are available (see 1999 earliest date announcement
    from Intel). The Alpha competition at that time will likely be in the
    neighbourhood of 850+Mhz, so the P7 types have their work cut out for
    them.
    
    mmm... emulation, issues of porting, application vendors dragging their
    feet on porting issues ... does this sound all to familiar ? Intel
    is rapidly going to be losing their shine ..
    
    If we can fix the internal Sales issues (perhaps the combining of SBU-PCBU
    as some rumours indicate), then perhaps we can start focussing on a
    common goal ie. increasing market and mind share with our Customers.
    
    re: Microsoft's HP announcement and it's alliance with Digital. They 
    are simply doing what is right for their business. 
    
    We are doing the same by increasing the amount of work we do with both 
    Oracle and Lotus - both of which were bigger sponsors tham Microsoft at 
    the recent Digital NT Wizards Symposium (1700 attendees) in Seattle.
    
    As someone in previous note indicated, HP is now going to have a lot of
    issues convincing it's current HP-UX customers that it is not dropping
    them in favour of NT. Does this sound like our issues with OpenVMS ?
    
    Let's see now .. typical Microsoft sales conversation with HP UX
    Customer "wink, wink .. it's only a matter of time now, HP UX is now
    a legacy system .. time to start thinking big time about Windows NT.."
    
    :-)
    
    Regards,
    
    / Kerry

    re: .24
    
    John, I agree with your sentiment.  _I'M_ not the one writing off
    OpenVMS, DIGITAL is -- and our OpenVMS customers know it!
    
    If we were possessed with the (intelligent, IMO) conviction to once
    again SELL OpenVMS to customers, we would find ourselves needing to
    perform SERIOUS marketing to overcome the market perception that
    OpenVMS is dying.  The sad part is that WE are responsible for the
    proliferation of that perception!
    
    OpenVMS is the cash cow which is currently bleeding from the butcher's
    knife wielded by its owner.  It can be saved, but not without concerted
    medical attention.
    
    -- Russ

+ WILL THE MICROSOFT-HP ALLIANCE BE SEEN AS UNIX'S STALINGRAD? 

Though World War 2 ended in May 1945, Nazi Germany really lost 
at Stalingrad three years before, when the Red Army entrapped, 
killed or captured 250,000 of its soldiers and allies in that 
ruined city. It is becoming increasingly clear that Wednesday's 
Hewlett-Packard Co and Microsoft Corp betrothal (CI No 3,123) 
is to be interpreted more as psychological warfare than as a 
means to deliver a specific set of deliverables. In other 
words, it's the biggest kid on the (midrange server) block 
ganging up with the biggest kid on the (desktop) block as a 
powerful means of reinforcing the message that Windows NT 
truly, truly has arrived, lest any of you Unix weenies still be 
in doubt. During the satellite telecast Bill Gates, who as of 
Thursday's stock ebb and flow was personally worth $27.1bn, or 
71% of his partner Hewlett's 1996 $38.4bn revenues, came out 
with the curious claim that "We developed Windows NT completely 
from scratch to include the best of both Unix and Windows," 
which is a statement the Digital VAX/VMS experts who built 
Windows NT may find worthy of a knowing smirk. But what Gates 
really meant was that NT's endorsement by previous Unix 
champion Hewlett-Packard marks a sea-change in the server 
market. 

                         By Gary Flood  

NT is thus being presented not as another operating system with 
this or that feature better or worse than, say, OS/2 or a 
specific Unix like HP-UX, but as a business 'solution' for the 
functional problems of the 'enterprise' In other words, when we 
once spoke of 'open systems' and meant easier cross-platform 
support rather than specific adherence to what was written in 
Unix textbooks, we now speak of 'reducing the total cost of 
ownership' and mean buying Windows NT. The alliance's main 
Motherhood statement - on the importance of reducing the total 
cost of ownership of enterprise computing - was even claimed to 
have come out of a meeting between Platt and Gates and 300 of 
their biggest joint European customers last month, just to 
prove that 'MicroHP' is doing it purely for customer benefit 
only. Less noble a way of putting it, but more honest, was 
Gates' comment that "The theme of this announcement is not just 
making NT better, but helping putting it into the systems 
customers have today." (Or even "on top of," or "replacing"?). 
But Microsoft could never have made Windows NT the evolutionary 
competitor to midrange systems like Unix without a partner 
which really could claim to understand the enterprise, an 
attribute supremely applicable of Lew Platt's Hewlett-Packard, 
which has 4,500 professional consultants and 18,000 support 
professionals worldwide, an army of Windows NT commandos that 
Microsoft can now aim squarely at the heart of the market. 
Which makes the putative alliance with moldering Digital 
Equipment Corp even more risible now than it ever was - as DEC 
becomes a ho-hum Windows NT value- added reseller, 
Hewlett-Packard steps up to the plate as the real corporate 
partner Microsoft has always wanted. In later years, we will 
mark this week as Unix's true Stalingrad.

Business Week, 3/31/97
www.businessweek/contents/
                                  [Image]

                         GATES: A NEW BEST FRIEND?

       HEWLETT-PACKARD MAY be elbowing aside Digital Equipment Corp.
       to be Bill Gates' best networking buddy. At stake is the lead
       role in making Microsoft's Windows NT software the favorite
       for backoffice operations. In 1995, Digital CEO Robert Palmer
       got the inside track via a deal to install and service NT
       software for corporations. For DEC (and now for HP), the
       service deal allows entree for follow-on hardware sales. Up
       to $5 billion of DEC's yearly sales--one-third of revenue--is
       from Microsoft work.

       HP announced on Mar. 19 a wide-ranging pact with Gates that
       some analysts say overshadows Microsoft's with Digital. As
       well as installing and servicing NT software, HP, for
       instance, will help Microsoft adapt HP's OpenView network
       management software to run with NT. To Mark Specker, a
       Soundview Financial analyst, Digital hurt itself with
       Microsoft by pushing its Alpha chip when customers preferred
       Intel-based machines for NT.

       Although HP execs are crowing, Digital Veep Robert Bismuth
       says the Microsoft deal isn't as far-reaching as it seems.
       Digital, he says, will keep its lead because of the ''stellar
       job'' it does for Microsoft. At the HP news conference, Gates
       called the HP link ''a broader relationship'' than Microsoft
       has ever had before, but he deferred any comment on Digital.

       By Paul Judge and Peter Burrows
       EDITED BY LARRY LIGHT
   Copyright 1997, by The McGraw-Hill Companies Inc. All rights reserved.

>An opportunity for DIGITAL 
>  
>     	Due to the lack of depth and narrow nature of this announcement, 
>  it poses no threat to DIGITAL.  It actually generates significant     
>  Windows NT, DIGITAL UNIX and services sales opportunities for DIGITAL.

After this statement in the second paragraph of the rebuttal, we never learn
what significant DIGITAL UNIX opportunities this announcement generates.

Bruce Langston

    re: -.1  
    
    And what about all the money we spent on that OpenVMS/WNT Affinity
    stuff?  No furthur opportunity there either...
    
    Is WNT the only thing that will sell next year...
    
    Will batman and all the non-WNT/non-Windows systems of the world witherup
    and die?
    
    Tune in again next week dear viewers... Same Bat-time, Same
    Bat-channel...
    
    JMHO
    
    JOhn W.
    
    

    >>
After this statement in the second paragraph of the rebuttal, we never learn
what significant DIGITAL UNIX opportunities this announcement generates.
    >>
    
    ...mmm, just a WAG, but given that HP is now going to have a very
    difficult time with its current HP-UX Customers ("really, we are not
    dumping HP-UX in favor of NT ..."), it might be an opportunity to
    capitalize and sell Digital UNIX to those Cust's who feel HP is moving 
    away (albeit gradually) from their support of HP-UX.
    
    Additional FUD with these Cust's might be  HP chip alliance with Intel
    
    I think this HP announcement is great - get more mainframe Cust's
    looking at NT, and when they start looking around for fastest NT
    platform, they find Alpha ! Also, it now means that HP will have
    Customer satisfaction issues with HP-UX, just as we did with OpenVMS.
    
    :-)
    
    / Kerry

    RE .32:
    
    I didn't notice anything that said HP was moving away from HP-UX.
    
    Digital customers, on the other hand, had lots of reasons to believe
    that Digital was moving away from UNIX. Two of the more prominent
    ones: the Multia and the XL.
    
    With the upcoming UNIX on low-end workstation announcement, that 
    wound will finally be allowed to heal... but maybe only until those
    new 21164PC systems are announced. Any bets on whether or not we
    cut ourselves open again?

    >>>
    I didn't notice anything that said HP was moving away from HP-UX.
    >>>
    
    When we announced our alliance with Microsoft, we didn't state that we
    were moving away from OpenVMS - it was a Customer perception of what
    they saw in the trade rags (albeit mostly LAN based). These HP-UX
    Customers will now read their favourite trade rags and see HP spouting
    their alliance and the importance of NT and HP's great (???) NT support
    infrastructure ...
    
    >>>
    Digital customers, on the other hand, had lots of reasons to believe
    that Digital was moving away from UNIX. Two of the more prominent
    ones: the Multia and the XL.
    >>>
    
    Not sure I understand what this means .. can you expand ?
    
    
    >>>
    With the upcoming UNIX on low-end workstation announcement, that 
    wound will finally be allowed to heal... 
    >>>
    
    NT is going to capture most (albeit not all) of what is typically known 
    as tier 1 (desktop) and tier 2 (departmental office application servers) 
    platforms. Ignoring this will only sink additional $'s down the sink.
    
    NT is NOT doing well at all in the tier 3 (big server markets). It is
    also an area that is expanding exponentially right now - OLAP, data
    warehousing, data marts, high end WEB servers, Internet commerce etc.
    This is the MVS, UNIX, OpenVMS, HP-UX world. Anyone seen recent huge
    increases in IBM's MVS and "enterprise server" sales recently?
    
    Rightly or wrongly, market realities need to dictate our marketing and
    investment $'s ...
    
    Regards,
    
    / Kerry

    
    
    
   From .33:     
    	>>>
        Digital customers, on the other hand, had lots of reasons to
    believe
        that Digital was moving away from UNIX. Two of the more prominent
        ones: the Multia and the XL.
        >>>
   From .34:     
        > Not sure I understand what this means .. can you expand ?
        
   To our UNIX (and VMS) customers, our "Universal Platform" message was
    a lot of hot air because we refused to provide UNIX and VMS on our
    low-end boxes, the Multia and the XL. To add insult to injury, we
    would happily refer them to Linux... 
    
    And then our marketing people would scratch their heads and say "Gee,
    how come the customer doesn't believe in our commitment to UNIX?"
    
    

    The following flame can be found in Sun's home page:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

		       Microsoft and HP: Beyond the Hype

    Yesterday HP and Microsoft announced a partnership agreement.  Sun has
    its own perspective on the ramifications of this announcement and would
    like to take a moment to share them with you.

    Over the past two years, HP has fundamentally changed its business
    model, essentially becoming a reseller.  The result: lower margins,
    increased cost of sales, and a reduction in net earnings growth from
    50% in FY 1995 to 6% in FY 1996.  1997 shouldn't be much better.  They
    have lost their core competencies in workstations and software to Sun,
    IBM, Microsoft and others.  This announcement makes it clear that HP is
    becoming a channel for Microsoft.

    One year ago at UniForum-- with great fanfare -- HP announced their 3DA
    initiative with SCO.  But now they make no mention of it at all.  The
    omission of this partnership makes it clear that HP's commitment to
    HP-UX and UNIX has fallen by the wayside.  According to IDC, the UNIX
    market has been growing at a double digit rate.  Clearly HP's problems
    cannot be attributed to a declining market.

    As for the NetPC -- it is not a viable alternative to the JavaStation
    or any other NC.  It is still a desktop-centric approach to network
    computing where all of the Windows processing is local.  It's not a
    good PC, nor is it a good NC.  It is a PC in a straight jacket.  This
    hybrid approach will not fit the bill for CIOs looking to solve their
    total cost of ownership problem successfully.  In this announcement it
    appears that both Microsoft and HP are reacting to the industry's
    gravitation toward network computers, where costs are significantly
    reduced through a fat-server, thin-client, easy-to-administer model.
    The NetPC does not meet those requirements.

    In Sun's opinion, HP is making the best of a bad situation.  To
    counteract its lower margins and earnings, it is a smart move for HP to
    invest in providing high margin professional services for NT, a product
    that clearly requires significant IT consulting and support.  Microsoft
    needs to partner with an established company that can provide
    professional consulting services for NT, to help lower NT's total cost
    of ownership.

    HP is betting on NT for the future, but it is a long term and risky
    investment because NT is not able to support the enterprise.  See
    Forrester's recent report on Fortune 1000 companies - NT Myths and
    Realities - Volume 14, number 2 - December 1996 which finds that "NT IS
    NOT AN ENTERPRISE ENVIRONMENT".  Analyst Jon Oltsik further states
    that, "NT will not roll over UNIX, Microsoft is far behind UNIX
    technically, and customers won't delay enterprise plans to wait for
    it."

    "The Network is the Computer" -- Sun has built every chip, every piece
    of hardware, every development tool, every administration tool, and
    every piece of software with that principle in mind.  As someone once
    said: "Rome wasn't built in a day ...  if it was we would have hired
    their engineer." It has taken years of hard work to develop the kind of
    quality products that are needed to sucessfully support enterprise
    computing.  No one, not even Microsoft, will be able to achieve that
    kind of quality overnight.  Not even if they try to buy it.

    I know almost nothing about SUN, Unix or the workstation market (I'm in
    networking), but this seems to be a typical SUN response. Just make up
    anything that knocks the competition and touts Sun's "leadership" in
    some area that they didn't invent. They certainly did that with
    networks.
    
    Debbie
    

RE: .37

	Including their moniker "The network is the computer". We, yes,	
	DEC..er..Digital...er...DIGITAL had for many years used 
	"The network is the system". They even used it verbatim until
	recently.

							mike

    at least they had the guts to call a reseller a reseller;-)
    
    God I love SUN....
    
    
    
    Marketing...;-)

    Re: .36
    
>    Forrester's recent report on Fortune 1000 companies - NT Myths and
>    Realities - Volume 14, number 2 - December 1996 which finds that "NT IS
>    NOT AN ENTERPRISE ENVIRONMENT".  Analyst Jon Oltsik further states
>    that, "NT will not roll over UNIX, Microsoft is far behind UNIX
>    technically, and customers won't delay enterprise plans to wait for
>    it."
    
    and if we had a marketing department with b*lls as big as Sun's we
    could say the same thing about UNIX when compared to OpenVMS. 
    A Digital Unix TruCluster (the only Unix clustering I'm aware of)
    can't even hold a candle to an OpenVMS cluster.
    
    
    Robin
    

    re: .40
    
    As a company, I think it would be difficult for Digital to come out with any
    statement that lambasts any one of OpenVMS, NT, or UNIX in favor of
    another.  Let's concentrate instead on pointing out the weaknesses in
    other companies' strategies, rather than weaknesses (real or perceived)
    in operating systems we're trying to sell!
    
    This "NT will not roll over UNIX" comment is rather bogus.  It *is*
    "rolling over UNIX" on the desktop, which seems to me is part of
    the enterprise.
    
    	Steve 

    HP Kills OpenMail For NT
    (04/03/97; 8:40 a.m. EST)
    By John Fontana, CommunicationsWeek

    PALO ALTO, Calif.  -- A funny thing happened to Hewlett-Packard on the
    way to releasing OpenMail for Windows NT.

    HP earlier week decided it was better to join the competition than to
    fight them.  So HP killed its OpenMail for Windows NT product, which
    was originally slated to ship last June and later promised for this
    year.  Instead, HP opted to jump on the Microsoft Exchange bandwagon.

    The company said it will ship OpenMail 5.1 in place of OpenMail for NT.
    OpenMail 5.1 will add support for Microsoft's Outlook client for Office
    97 and Exchange Server.

    As part of an alliance agreement signed recently with Microsoft in
    Redmond, Wash., HP has agreed to promote Exchange Server as the
    strategic Win NT messaging system for the enterprise.  HP also will
    promote the Exchange client and Outlook as the client of choice for
    HP's OpenMail server, the Unix-based heart of the company's
    multiplatform client/server messaging system.

    HP officials said Outlook clients would not be compromised with
    OpenMail as the back end.  "If it happens on Exchange, it happens on
    OpenMail, except for three things," said Steve Every, a marketing
    consultant with HP.  The three missing features are message recall,
    auto-preview and auto-dialing to connect to the server.  "But over
    time, the user will not know which back end they are connected with,"
    he said.

    The release also includes a Web client for accessing the OpenMail
    server called the Internet Communications Environment (ICE).  The
    customizable client is written in Java and JavaScript, can be embedded
    in any browser, and gives users access to all OpenMail features.

    Other improvements include support for IMAP4 and LDAP, and the Entrust
    Public Key Server from Northern Telecom in Ottawa.  The integration
    between Exchange and OpenMail gives network and IS managers alternate
    back-end issues to ponder for server-to-server interoperability.

    Although some OpenMail customers see potential in the marriage with
    Exchange, others are cautious about the interoperability of services
    between servers.

    "We'd want to see those services in place before we deploy any NT
    servers," said Greg Barrons, the infrastructure project manager at
    United Airlines, Chicago.  United runs its corporate messaging system
    on Unix, but is looking at NT servers for its smaller satellite
    offices.  Barrons had been considering OpenMail for NT but said he
    would shift his attention to Exchange.

    "The client-to-server link is no problem.  The server-to-server link
    will require us to do some work," HP's Every said.  On the back end,
    network administrators will get a single set of management tools.  The
    two companies will integrate the HP OpenView system and network
    management software with Microsoft's products, including Systems
    Management Server.

    Pricing for OpenMail 5.1 is set per user and runs $60 per mailbox,
    which includes any client access, or $10 per OpenMail client and $20
    per ICE client.

    I wonder if H-P will get REALLY serious and move to Exchange as their
    internal mail system? Then at least we'll all be in the same (sinking)
    boat.
    
    Debbie
    

    >> "But over time, the user will not know which back end they are connected
    >> with," he said.
    
    And anyone who has ever followed this subject knows that we have the
    finest "back end" in town.  :-)

    	It might have been one of the finest back-ends at one time, but now
    it's all stretched out, red, and raw from all the abuse.