Conference 7.286::digital

    Vobis, one of the leading PC distributors in Europe is launching an
    Alpha PC at CeBIT this week, based on a 500 MHz 21164 chip. 
    
    The announcement comes from c't, a german computer magazine, and they
    have nice things to say about the performance of the machine and FX!32.
    
    Klaus

    Ironically, right on the anniversary of the announcement four
    years ago.
    
    
    
             <<< HUMANE::DISK$SCSI:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< The Digital way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 2417.1          Mitsubishi - the word is getting around             1 of 45
BHAJEE::JAERVINEN "No Pentium inside"                68 lines  16-MAR-1993 10:05
                               -< press release >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION ANNOUNCES ALPHA AXP SECOND SOURCE
         RELATIONSHIP WITH MITSUBISHI ELECTRIC CORPORATION


MAYNARD, MASS. -- March 16, 1993 -- Digital Equipment Corporation 
announced today that Mitsubishi Electric Corporation will become a 
second source for Digital's Alpha AXP microprocessor architecture. 
Mitsubishi will manufacture and sell Digital-designed versions of 
Alpha AXP microprocessor chips, as well as build and sell its own 
designs based on the Alpha AXP architecture.  By providing a second 
...
Production is scheduled to begin in late 1994.

    	If you can't install and run Office 97 on it out of the box, it's
    useless.

    
    Yes, we understand. The v1.2 upcoming release of FX!32 will have
    support for Office97.
    
    (FYI, in v1.1 of FX!32 most of Office97 works - but there are
    some problems)
    
    Regards,
    George

No emulators are ever perfect!  While FX32 may be exceptional, there's 
aways going to be some application that does something unexpected that may 
break the emulator.

My advice:

1. Determine your *primary* software application.
2. If your primary application is Office97 or other x86 software, then buy
   a Digital Venturis/Celebris Intel Pentium or Pentium Pro system.
3. If your primary application is OpenVMS, Digital Unix, or require high 
   perfromance floating point, buy an Alpha system.
4. If your secondary application is Office97 on Alpha, then by definition, 
   you can afford to wait for the new version of FX32.


							-Paul

At the joint Microsoft/Digital partnership announcment
years ago, I heard that any MS CD shipped would have 
Intel and Alpha binaries on the CD.

What has happened? Was this a dream?

Gim

    There is only one CD for the MS NT workstation and server CDs, as well
    as Back Office.  If there is both an Intel and Alpha version of the
    product generally the rule is one CD.  In the case of Office 97, there
    just isn't an Alpha version.

As I understand it, Microsoft promised that *server applications* would become
available simultaneously on Alpha and Intel, and *any* applications shipped
on any other RISC NT platform would be shipped on Alpha simultaneously.

The second part is basically moot now.  For the first part, well, I guess
they get to define what's a "server application".

Regarding .5, a lot of unexpected things happen on my
Windows 95 desktop, and though NT is better I believe
the Intel customer base is pretty used to frequent
gotchas.  My guess is FX!32 will exceed expectations.

Respectfully,
Dennis

    For what it is worth, I understand that Alpha versions of Word 97 and
    Excel 97 will be available soon.  Allegedly, MS and Digital agreed that
    the other components of Office 97 would work fine with FX!32.
    
    

> Digital projects that Alpha PCs will drop below $1,500 by the year 2000.

That could be right. Look what happened to the price of Multias.

PJDM

    FWIW, Vobis, the biggest PC chain in Germany, will venture another
    attempt at Alphas.
    
    They had rebadged (DEC built) Alphas a few years ago - without much
    success. Now they're going to build their own (using DEC motherboards).
    
    Not quite $1,500 though - a 500 MHz machine (2GB SCSI, 64MB + the usual
    stuff) is supposed to cost DM 7000 (~US$ 4,100).

    re .12
    
    US $4100 for a system of that configuration is a great deal!!!  It just
    has to be positioned and promoted properly for success.
    
    This is all very good news, and encouraging.

    I'm at home now and checked the article in c't, a German computer rag.
    
    Unfortunately, I was wrong about the disk. The article (which describes
    a prototype by Vobis) says it will hit the stores with an IDE disk 'up
    to 3MB', an IDE CD-ROM, 1MB external cache, 64 MB memory, ISA network
    adapter.  Graphics is S3 Virge 988 with 4MB.
    
    They also mention that Office 97 is expected to run with FX!32 V1.2.
    

    The Semiconductor group needs to lighten up on some of their claims.
    A lot of software (Intel NT drivers, Windows95 DirectX, etc) does not
    run under FX!32.  (Windows95 DirectX doesn't even run under Intel NT).
    Lying is against corporate policy and ground for termination... except
    it seems when it's trying to sell Alphas, whereupon it becomes
    corporate policy.  Nice ethics.
    .02 Kratz  
    
    
    http://www.digital.com/info/semiconductor/alphaend.htm
    
    Alpha Runs All PC Compatible Windows Software
    "We wouldn't expect you to invest in a PC that was limited by the
    applications it could run. With Alpha's unique translation technology,
    Digital FX!32, you can run all of your 32-bit Windows applications --
    including multimedia Intel x86 applications -- without any hassles.
    And with Alpha, you'll run many of them at a performance advantage --
    beyond x86!"

    Ethics? Isn't there an HQ department for that? Do they read here (re
    .-1) or would it be better posted direct to them ?

    The tiny Ethics group against Digital Semiconductor?  Please...
    that'd be like a gnat trying to change the course of a water buffalo. 
    Enorex print ads (at least in the US) claim to run "all 32 bit
    Intel software" too, but they just regurgitate what they're fed
    from DS.
    K

    re .15
    
    Where does it say FX!32 runs Intel drivers etc? The way I read it is
    says 'applications'.

    My "primary" application is the one that I need this minute to get the
    job done.  Wait another hour and I'll be running a different primary
    application.
    
    FX32 flunked my test because it didn't support MAPI (Mail API) for me
    to convert ALL-IN-1 to Exchange.  
    
    It only needs to flunk once.  If it were Intel, I wouldn't have had the
    problem.
    
    When you're not the head of the pack you have to do extra to catch up -
    we're not the head in commodity chips...so we have to do what the lead
    does *EXACTLY* and then some better.
    
    Almost doesn't count in "run my application".
    
    

    >>
    It only needs to flunk once.  If it were Intel, I wouldn't have had the
    problem.
    >>
    
    This is hilarious .. Are you saying that all Intel / NT software has no
    bugs or problems ? 
    
    Perhaps what you are saying is that we expect Digital SW to have no 
    problems, but it's ok for other vendors PC SW to have a few bugs here 
    and there ?
    
    Are you aware of Microsoft's NT4.0 SP2 fiasco ? Given your criteria,
    can I assume that you will no longer be buying Microsoft SW ?
    
    It's amazing how we Digital types are our own worst enemy.
    
    :-(
    
    / Kerry

RE -.1

> Perhaps what you are saying is that we expect Digital SW to have no 
> problems, but it's ok for other vendors PC SW to have a few bugs
> here and there ?

But at least when you have a problem with a standard 
configuration (= Wintel), you have the satisfaction of
knowing that millions of others are in the same boat
as you. Seems to me that FX!32 is still meant for those
that have a VERY good reason for native Alpha apps, 
and who have the casual need for Intel apps.

Greg.

    Re: .20
    I think what Jon Danzak was trying to say is that when we're playing
    catch-up in the PC/Wintel environment, being just as good as the
    competition probably is not good enough. We need to provide an
    advantage. If FX32-on-Alpha flunks a test of running an Intel app,
    then it immediately puts us at a disadvantage. 
    
    It's kind of like the mgmt concept of "hygiene factors" (Hertzberg,
    maybe?). If all so-called hygiene factors are present, it doesn't 
    necessarily make the product/whatever a winner against the competition.
    But if a hygiene factor is *absent*, it immediately makes the product
    a loser (or pretty darn close to one). I think Jon is saying that FX32-
    on-Alpha not running the particular app meant that at least one hygiene
    factor was absent.
    
    The issue is not whether MSFT writes perfect software, or whether Intel
    has a Pentium floating point problem - it's whether our systems run
    *every* piece of "Intel-based" SW the customer has, bugs and all.
    
    [Hey Jon D., if I've misinterpreted your note (.19), please feel free
    to point out my errors.]

From a business perspective, there's also the "stick yer neck out" factor. Do 
you want to be the IS executive that brings in the Alpha/FX32 package and then 
finds that one of the CEO's favorite apps won't run?

Once your neck is stuck out this far, ANY problem with software will be blamed 
on FX32. NO ONE will stand up and say, "maybe it's got problems on Intel, 
too."

It's not a chance I'd be willing to take and, unfortunately, I thinks it's one 
that few IS execs would take, either. Reminds me of the old days when an IBM 
mainframe was always the safe choice.

\dave

There was a blurb on CNN last weekend about how Digital is challenging Intel
with its latest Alpha based PC which is twice as fast as the Intel -and- with 
a favourable price tag of just $2400.

The "blue" digital logo was displayed on the background.

I heard this on the 5AM news on WBZ radio in Boston as well. However, I
didn't hear it on the 7AM news.  No mention of it on their web site 
either.

    re .24,.25
    Just look at the press release in 2417.1 and change the year.
    It's essentially the same thing.  2417.1 never happened, in
    case you're wondering why Wall Street isn't being fooled by the
    same claim four years later.
    K  

WINTEL is not all that popular, at least among the customers with
whom I talk.  Every week I meet another who is searching for
more performance, more reliability, and lower cost of ownership.
They're not very happy with what they've got.

And, we have a lot to offer on all these points.  Sure, they're all
nervous about selecting anything other than WINTEL, but in fact
they're just plain nervous about all the inevitable changes they'll
be dealing with the next several years-- maybe forever.   Every
month they face another "paradigm shift".

In my view the smart ones are hedging their bets by not getting too
overly reliant on any one product/technology and planning new lives
for the stuff that goes "obsolete" because of the latest marketing
trend.

Respectfully,
Dennis

    FWIW, FX!32 V1.1 (downloadable from the DS website) has MAPI links.
    
    M

    > re .24,.25
    >    Just look at the press release in 2417.1 and change the year.
    >    It's essentially the same thing.  2417.1 never happened, in
    >    case you're wondering why Wall Street isn't being fooled by the
    >    same claim four years later.
    >    K
    
    It's not the same.  They're talking about a 400MHz Alpha chip for $295,
    less than half the price of a Pentium Pro.
    
    M

    From CNNfn March 17, 1997: 12:28 p.m. ET
    
    And Digital Computer (DEC) lost
    3/8 to 29-3/8 after the company said
    it will install its new 400MHz to
    533MHz chips in its line of Alpha
    personal computers. The chip is a
    direct challenge to Intel, whose
    fastest chip is 200MHz. Intel (INTC)
    fell 5 to 132-3/4. 
    
    

>>>    It's not the same.  They're talking about a 400MHz Alpha chip for $295,
>>>    less than half the price of a Pentium Pro.

Intel will shortly be releasing the Klamath/Pentium II which will offer P6 
performance at a standard Pentium "classic" price.  These price performance 
comparisons will shortly be obsolete!


							-Paul

    re .29
    Back then it was a 2nd-sourced 21066 for $500 being twice as fast
    as Pentium.  Now it's 2nd-sourced 21164PC for $500 being twice as
    fast as Pentium Pro.
    
    Technically you are correct, it's not the same; the names have
    changed dramatically.
    Kratz  

        PALO ALTO, Calif., March 17 (Reuter) - Shares of Intel Corp.
    slumped in heavy volume at midday on concerns over rivals' competitive
    products and the overall level of stock market valuations, analysts
    said.
        By early afternoon, the share had tumbled as much as six points to
    131-7/8 as the stock led the Nasdaq most actives list with volume
    topping 11 million shares.
        Earlier, Maynard, Mass.-based Digital Equipment Corp <DEC.N> said
    it will offer low-cost versions of its Alpha chip designed to run on
    high-end personal computers that it said would outperform Intel's
    top-end Pentium Pro processors.

    MAYNARD, MASS. (March 17) BUSINESS WIRE -March 17, 1997-- 
       New Highscreen Alpha 5000 Sells for $3,500 US (DM 5999) 
       Digital Equipment Corporation today announced that the Alpha 21164 
    chip, the world's fastest microprocessor, is at the heart of a new 
    personal workstation introduced today by Vobis Microcomputer AG of 
    Wurselen, Germany. 
       Vobis is Europe's largest PC retailer, specializing in systems for 
    small businesses, home offices, and consumers.  Vobis products are 
    distributed through more than 1,000 retail outlets and superstores in 
    Germany and in wholly owned outlets in 10 other European countries. 
       The Highscreen Alpha 5000 business computer from Vobis uses the
    Alpha  21164-500MHz chip from Digital Semiconductor, a Digital
    Equipment  Corporation business.  Along with the Windows NT 4.0
    operating system,  the configuration includes 64MB of memory, 4GB hard
    disk, 4MB graphics  card, and 8X CD-ROM with sound card for multimedia. 
       Price for the Highscreen Alpha 5000 computer is $3,500 US (DM 5999). 
    Vobis will begin deliveries in the spring. 
       At CeBIT, Dr. Gert Hugler, president and CEO of Vobis Microcomputer
    AG,  said, "It's a great opportunity to be working with Digital 
    Semiconductor.  We chose their Alpha 21164 microprocessor, the world's 
    most powerful RISC processor running Windows NT, to power our 
    just-announced Highscreen Alpha 5000.  The Alpha 21164 microprocessor's 
    exceptional price and performance will help launch Vobis into the 
    enterprise desktop market." 
       "We are very pleased that Vobis has chosen Alpha for its latest, 
    high-performance personal computer," said William N. Johnson, vice 
    president, Business Segments, at Digital Semiconductor.  "Working with 
    Vobis will enable us to broaden Alpha's market presence in growing 
    markets." 
       Digital Semiconductor, a Digital Equipment Corporation business 
    headquartered in Hudson, Massachusetts, designs, manufactures and 
    markets industry-leading semiconductor products including Alpha 
    microprocessors and PCI chips for networking, bridging, and multimedia, 
    plus low-power StrongARM microprocessors under license from Advanced 
    RISC Machines Ltd.  Mitsubishi Electric Corporation and Samsung 
    Electronics Company Ltd. are alternate sources for Alpha 
    microprocessors.  Web site: http://www.digital.com/semiconductor 
       Digital Equipment Corporation is a world leader in open client/
    server  solutions from personal computing to integrated worldwide
    information  systems.  Digital's scalable Alpha and Intel platforms,
    storage,  networking, software and services, together with industry-
    focused  solutions from business partners, help organizations compete
    and win in  today's global marketplace. -0- 
       Note to Editors: Digital, Digital Semiconductor, and the Digital
    logo  are trademarks of Digital Equipment Corporation.  Vobis and
    Highscreen  are trademarks of Vobis Microcomputer AG.  Windows is a
    registered  trademark and Windows NT is a trademark of Microsoft
    Corporation.  StrongARM is a trademark of Advanced RISC Machines Ltd.
    Intel is a  registered trademark of Intel Corporation. 
       --30--cl/bos   
       CONTACT: Digital Equipment Corporation 
             Marianne Mills 
       508/568-5102 
       KEYWORD: MASSACHUSETTS 
       INDUSTRY KEYWORD: COMED COMPUTERS/ELECTRONICS TELECOMMUNICATIONS 
       REPEATS: New York 212-752-9600 or 800-221-2462; Boston 617-236-4266
    or 
       800-225-2030; SF 415-986-4422 or 800-227-0845; LA 310-820-9473 
    Today's News On The Net - Business Wire's full file on the Internet 
       with Hyperlinks to your home page. 
                           URL: http://www.businesswire.com 
    
    

This has been beat to death before, but will we now see an Alpha notebook?

Grant.

I saw one a year ago.  Tadpole sells it.

			Steve

It runs Digital UNIX and/or OpenVMS (no NT).  Not the fastest thing in the
world (it uses a 21066) but it's an Alpha.

    I saw a new Alpha laptop here in Valbonne last week during dry runs of
    the Sales Training technical update seminars.
    
    It was funny to see the presenter resorting to a Unix based PostScript 
    viewer to project his slides.  (No Office97 on Unix or VMS ya know!)
    
    On the bright side - the Alpha didn't stumble at the tremendous task of
    interpreting complex PostScript slides - just screamed along - finally 
    a use for all that CPU power!
    
    /Chris/

Dear Kratz, 

Regarding 5185.32

With all due respect I think you are missing the point.  Yeah, in any one
year it's not enough to be twice as fast as the incumbent.  But year after
year of being *half-fast* ;^) eventually takes its toll.  It's a good time
to be us and not them. -- Dennis

PS.  Sorry for not doing a Notes search, you've probably answered this a
thousand times, but whence comes "Kratz".  It maps unusually to your 
non-computer id, ie. few common letters.  It's got a great ring.


>>    Back then it was a 2nd-sourced 21066 for $500 being twice as fast
>>    as Pentium.  Now it's 2nd-sourced 21164PC for $500 being twice as
>>    fast as Pentium Pro.
 
>>    Technically you are correct, it's not the same; the names have
>>    changed dramatically.
>>    Kratz

So, why did both our stock and Intel's fall over this chip announcement?
It seems that one or the other should have improved. liesl

    doubt the announcements meant anything to the stock price.  the market
    is overvalued in the opinion of those at the controls.
    
    or maybe greenspan burped ......

Wall St. can also get quite down on everyone involved when price wars
(that erode current margins) start...

    
    More bad news for Intel - the online rags are starting to say some
    pretty good things about Digital and are starting to get down on
    Intel ie appears Pentium II now delayed for awhile as well.
    
    p.s. do Customers know that the P7 chip's native architecture will be
    IA-64 and will run X86 instructions in emulation mode... mmm now, 
    do we know what they are in for ?
    
    Following is extract from online Windows NT magazine edition:
    
    "Dear NTer's,
    
    In this week's issue you'll find an interesting piece on Microsoft's
    upcoming NT 5.0. Intel has said they are delaying the release of their
    new Pentium II processor, which is supposed to reach speeds of up to
    300Mhz, and apparently, Microsoft isn't willing to wait for Intel's new
    chip to begin delivering 64-bit versions of NT 5.0. Earlier this week
    (and much to Intel's disliking), benchmarks published by German testers
    showed that Intel's new Pentium II was actually slower than it's
    MMX chips in certain instances - so perhaps Intel's delay is for making
    improvements in the areas of the chip that are still lacking.
    
    

>     doubt the announcements meant anything to the stock price.  the market
>     is overvalued in the opinion of those at the controls.
>     
>     or maybe greenspan burped ......

	Wasn't Greenspan who burped this time (Greenspan even back-peddled
	last week).  This time it was Warren Buffet, who over the weekend
	in his newsletter said stocks were overvalued.  Then on NBR Monday
	night McDonalds stock was up and the blurb was that Berkshire
	Hawthaway was increasing it's holdings in that stock (Berkshire
	Hawthaway is Buffet's company).

	It didn't help that the bond maket was also under selling
	pressure on inflation fears.

	In any case, high techs were down in general on Monday (NASDAQ
	down almost 14 pts) and even though the DJIA made a great
	recovery (from -80 to +20 at the close), the broader market
	was down (by something like 2 stocks down for every stock up
	on the NYSE).

> It runs Digital UNIX and/or OpenVMS (no NT).  Not the fastest thing in the
> world (it uses a 21066) but it's an Alpha.

	Which brings up the question, does the new Alpha PC the Germans
	will be selling run (or will run) Digital UNIX?  The press
	release only mentions NT, unless I missed it?

    re: .21/22 etc.
    
    
    You got it.
    
    Come out to THE FIELD and run a Digital environment.  Have it flunk
    just ONE, just ONE application test of the customer and you're branded
    with a BIG RISK and they will NOT bet on you nor work around you.
    
    Note that our competition does *NOT* have larger sales forces than us. 
    Hell the local Microsoft office here doesn't even have a receptionist!
    
    But, they DO build products which are easier to use, designed to what
    the user needs, and have better partner support because it's
    concentrated on how a person wiht *NO* product familiarity uses their
    product. 
    
    Their approach to support etc., is not "go look in the notes file" or
    "call person x", it's more oriented to folks who are NOT familiar with
    the product.
    
    Yep, we design world class things and have world class quality. But
    it's in a vaccuum - not oriented to what the market needs and we have
    repeatedly demonstrated our ability to NOT drive the market.
    
    Who cares what chip we build.  IT SIMPLY DOES NOT MATTER.  It DOES
    matter if we can MARKET it, SELL it and if 3rd PARTIES support it.  The
    rest is all technodrivel.

    Could all those people that pointed out HP's GREAT marketing coop of
    the HP-MS, ah, initiative, write here about the marketing value of
    this announcement to, err, Digital please? Thanks in advance.
    
    Al