Conference 7.286::digital

    Peter,
    
    I'll miss reading your notes. Always great inputs.
    But Digital is not what used to be. Special for those ones, like me, that
    work here for more than a decade. One day here, the day after we can be
    out - due to the big word "reorganization"
    Take good care of yourself.
    Cheers,
    	teresa

    Greyhawk!!! Dude, I for one will miss you. Sorry to read another DEC
    (not Digital) OBIT. Your outlook and attitude are commendable (SP). I
    too am from Chicago and have lasted 17 years and your talent will be
    missed by us and welcomed by others and you will welcome the infusion
    of cash!
    
    Digital is a good place but as you mentioned , not Ken's Digital (DEC).
    
    Welcome to the 90's, we are all disposable and thats to bad and it is
    the future that has caught up with us.
    
    We no longer work for a company, rather we work for ourself and must
    look out for us.
    
    My father worked as a loyal schmuck for Ford Motor Company and after 27
    years he was tossed out like yesterdays trash, on the south side
    stamping plant. My brother at Pullman Car after 12 years as a welder,
    yesterdays trash. My mother after 19 years at Sears, yesterdays trash.
    Other brother at Lederlie Labs, 16 years, out the door.
    
    Its a new way of life.
    
    May you do well in yours! You have left an impression during your time
    with us and you will be missed.
    
    Michael Terpening, 74442.270 @Compuserve.com
    
    

As always, the Greyhawk is there with a positive attitude and accurate
prescriptions for what ails us.  Digital is poorer for his leaving.

I wish you the best of luck, and invite you to stop by anytime you are
in your South Florida home.  Goodbye, my friend.

-- Ken Moreau

    
    Peter,
    
    From this side of the planet (Switzerland), we will miss reading
    your notes too. I can't believe that people like you are leaving....
    
    Take care and the best of Luck
    Bien Cordialement from Geneva,
    
    Brigitte
    

Greyhawk,

"Hamba gaashly" [go carefully] as they said where I came from.
Miss your clear thinking and noting - we'll be a poorer place without it.

regards
Andrew
(Scotland)

    Bye Greyhawk. I think you're a sad loss to Digital, not least because
    of your outspoken ways, and sensible words. Perhaps that's *why* you've
    gone, I don't know. Coincidentally, 10 years ago this week I started
    work at Acre Rd. in Reading.
    
    It's a shame you think BUs won't work, because SAP is being built on a
    BU model, and once implemented, it won't be possible to re-organise the
    business model again without (more) huge expense and a lot of pain, so
    I hope it *will* work.
    
    All the best, Laurie.

    Hallo Greyhawk,
    
    
    Sorry to see people like you leave.
    Must make one correction.
    This company is mostly being run by Cost Centre (CC) managers and not 
    Business Unit (BU) managers. I know of one or two exceptions.  	
    Every BU managers must know that he is in fact a CC manager.
    
    Good luck,
    
    
    Aad Kooijman (23 years DEC)
    From behind the dikes in Holland.
    
    
    

    Goodbye Greyhawk.  Thanks much for your many upbeat messages along the
    way during these last few years.  I wish you the best and hope to meet 
    you someday when I revisit my hometown (Chicago/Geneva).
    
    May you have fair winds and a following sea!
    
    George

    
    We Advertising types will miss the Greyhawk's incisive, customer inward
    perspective.  Let's hope he lands softly, but that we are not in his gun
    sights working for a competitor.  
    
    Best Wishes from "Corporate".
    
    Bill

re .6,

it won't work.  Believe it.

re basenote,

Seeya Greythingy, best of luck 'n'all that.

Chris.

    
    
    Goodbye and good luck Greyhawk.
    
    You will be missed!!
    
    /art

    Bye Greyhawk.  May our paths cross again.
    
    Whatever you do next, I hope you enjoy it.
    
    Bob

I've heard it said that the wolves keep the caribou strong, but in Greyhawk's
case I get a feeling that our management has pulled down one of the stronger
members of the herd.

Jim

    I can't help but believe that in some way we are witnessing the passing 
    of yet another era.
    
    Goodbye GreyHawk and Good Luck.
    
    Ray 

    We'll miss you a lot. Thanks for your bright notes.
    Take care of you.
    
    Good Bye and Good Luck,
    
    Tamas
    (Hungary)

    Amidst all the nonsense, the pain, the anger, of all the company went
    through in the last few years, there was always a steady sane voice,
    fair, honest, and outspoken: the Greyhawk.
    
    Take care on the way, Peter, and good luck.
    
    Kevin

    I can't add anything further to what's been said herein.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Doug

Sorry to see you go. I've enjoyed reading your perspective. liesl

Farewell, Greyhawk.

		Steve

    
    yo Peter
    
    Take care sales dude. Sorry to see you go, but hell you live right
    down the road from me. :-) I'll miss your insightful views and
    beliefs. take care and goodluck in your future. 
    
    Mark

    Looks like the stockholders are voicing their opinion as well.
    
    DEC 71 1/4, change -3; DJIA 5573.05, change -28.18 at 14:31.
    Server updated on 02/14 at 14:47 eastern.
    
    
    Sorry to see you go.
    
    Robin

Good luck Peter.

We'll miss you.

Don't worry, we'll keep the ship on the rails....I promise.

-Stephen

    Greyhawk - After all these years of reading your intelligent and frank
    noting here, I feel as though I know you, though we've never met.  We
    all know that you will be missed by the noting community, by your
    customers, and by your many (personal) friends here at Digital.  
    
    With your brains and talent, though, I expect we will quickly find you
    recycled into an even happier seller with one of our partners or
    competitors.  Best of luck in your brave new world, Greyhawk.  
    
    Regards,
    
    Marla
    

    It's a sad day, I think, for DEC.  Best of luck, don't look back.
    
    Bryan, RON

Greyhawk (who'll prolly never see this)-

I didn't ALWAYS agree with you, nor ALWAYS like your style...

But I ALWAYS respected your expressiveness/opinions, which were right much 
more often than [I thought] wrong. As many have previously said, you WILL be 
missed...but then, I never like people who I agree with all the time :-)

Babies and bathwater??? Keep peddling!


SteveS

    May the road rise with you Greyhawk.
    
    Dermot O'Sullivan, Sales, Ireland.

    Goodbye, good luck and good health.
    
    

    Greyhawk, I've only been a reader here in Notes, but your leaving has
    prompted me to write.  I've been at DEC for 25.3333 years (according to
    the cash account pension plan) the last 15 in various sales jobs, the
    most current of which is MCS.  You hit the nail on the head when you
    said give the customer what they want, you CAN charge them for it.  It
    would go a long way to returning DEC to prominence.  I may be joining
    you, I'm told I'll know on 2-19.  Best of luck to you and to us all.
    
    DecSlave
    
    
    

    Gee, I feel extremely lucky to have actually *met* The Greyhawk,
    although it briefly, during a business trip to south Florida last fall.
    Folks, he's just as impressive in person.
    
    Best of luck Ol' Grey One!
    
    Harry
    

    
    We've never met but I have enjoyed your postings. Apparently the suits
    don't seem to understand that ... [ <- sentence to be finished over a 
    pint or two... ]
    
    Feel good that your leaving opens the door for another body in the 
    revenue consumption chain to ponder and publish position papers on
    "Where do the lines in the parking lot go when it snows?"
    
    I have already sacrificed a goat. The entrails tell me that you'll 
    do just fine. Us? Stay tuned. 
    
    jc
    

    
    	I'm not sure these folks will let me back in here again after
    tonight's backups, etc. so I just want you all to know your outpouring
    of love, sympathy, kindness, and caring have made all the difference
    as I go forth to battle new dragons, slay polyesters, and keep the fair
    maidens chaste.
    
    	(Boy, I can really lay it on, huh?)
    
    	You are the BEST...
    
    
    		love,
    			the Greyhawk

	So Digital is now laying off one of its most successful
	salesmen? One of the select few who as recently as October
	was sent to the exclusive DECathlon retreat in Bali as a 
	reward for great work and inspiration for more?

	And this proves that the company is facing the
	market realities?
	
	I don't get it. Clearly I'm not management material.




	Best of luck. We'll miss your insight and humor.

				John

Bear in mind that each decision is an individual one in the final
analysis. "Digital" is not laying off anyone -- individual managers
are, so there's still hope for Digital, though it's diminishing.

Pete

    
    Hawkman:
    
   II believe this may be appropriate.
    
    A man knocked at the heavenly gate his hair was GRAY but his attitude
    was great. He stood before the man of Fate for admission to the fold.
    What have you done, St. Peter asked, to gain admission here? I have
    been a loyal Digital salesman sir he said, for many and many a year. I
    have performed for DEC and now for, Digital in good times and in bad.
    The pearly gates swung open wide, St. Peter rang the bell. Come in and
    choose your place he said, you have had your share of HELL.
    
    George 
    
     
    

    US Digital Employee Browser
    
    
    PETER D CORSON
    Site: LAC01/ DTN: 407 753-6069 
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Reporting Hierarchy 
    
    |--- ROBERT B PALMER Site: MSO02/02 DTN: 223-6600 
    |----- ENRICO PESATORI Site: MSO02/02 DTN: 223-9040 
    |------- ROBERT D MULKEY Site: MSO02/02 DTN: 223-2112 
    |--------- ALAN P ZIMMERLE Site: OGO01/02 DTN: 276-8347 
    |----------- KANNANKOTE S SRIKANTH Site: OGO01/01 DTN: 276-8453 
    |------------- EDWARD R DAIHL Site: DVO01/ DTN: 553-3263 
    |--------------- LARRY A WATERKOTTE Site: SCA01/ DTN: 483-4257 
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Peers 
    
    DORSEY M SCOTT Site: SCA01/ DTN: 483-4093 

    re: -.1 Hierarchy
           
    can't help but wonder what "wisdom" one or more of the seven
    decisionmakers have that hundreds of followers of this conference
    don't have in deciding to let Greyhawk go.  
    
    Perhaps that's cruel.  Perhaps there was no choice.
    
    You have to believe that they would have some second thoughts if they
    followed this conference though.  But then, maybe they do.
    
    --Steve

    
    Re .37:
    
    Thanks. I think I'll go express an opinion now...
    

    Re: .37
    
    You can be sure of one thing: 
    
    Those above on the org chart won't be leaving anytime soon
    unless it is to another company when the waves finally close
    over the sinking corpse of this one - and then you can bet they
    will have a fancy golden life preserver.
    
    We seem to be treating the problem of DEC, er, Digital not reaching
    its full success potential by knocking blocks out the bottom layers 
    of the pyramid. All this does is make the pyramid shorter.
    
    The day that we start letting go management in the middle between
    CC mgrs & direct contributors, and the leadership at the top when 
    business goals are not met is the day we get back on the road 
    to success and rebuilding the pyramid correctly.
    
    Publius
    

re: .40

>    The day that we start letting go management in the middle between
>    CC mgrs & direct contributors, and the leadership at the top when
>    business goals are not met is the day we get back on the road
>    to success and rebuilding the pyramid correctly.

There has been a tremendous turnover in top "leadership" since Bob
Palmer took over, some of it clearing out the old guard and some
booting his own folks who didn't meet business goals.

It's hard to say what the situation is in middle management because
you don't see announcements when they get booted.  One would suspect
there's more room to hide there.  There wasn't any room for Lucente,
Jack Smith, Brebach, Cabrinety, McNulty, John Sims, Zereski, etc.,
etc., to hide though.

- paul

    I've been reluctant to comment since my spelling faux pas (sp?), but
    we'll risk it again.
    
    Business is pretty simple.  You get a bunch of people to build things,
    a bunch of people to sell things, and a bunch of people to support
    those who build and sell.  Builders and sellers are the only people who
    directly contribute to revenue.  The others; R&D, Marketing, Finance, and
    Management are all neccesary and valuable, but they are OVERHEAD.
    
    Now, cut to our buddy Peter, er, Greyhawk.  He went to Bali (remember
    the DC-10 MD-11 winglet discussion).  Supposedly this meant that he did
    a pretty good job of selling, or directly contributing to revenue,
    during a year when many in this business figured that DEC, er, Digital
    was going down the tubes.  
    
    Now if you can perform in the top X percentile when people are
    saying "DEC?...You're still around?", it means only one of two things:
    
    	1. Your goals were sandbagged, and your management should be fired
    	for not getting the most out of you, or 
    
    	2. You did a great ******* job (as they say in the sales game).
    
    Is one or two true?  I think, one.
    
    $.02
    
    gc

    
    So Long Grey Hawk ...
    
    	Me too go ...
    
    		15 years ... 14 DEC 100's ... 4 DECathalon's
    
    former ... many tomes RO noter
    
    GreyEagle
    

    
    RE: .42
    
    Since you seem to catigorise(sp?) "support" as a non-profit generating
    activity. I can assure you that it _is_ generating a profit for Digital.
    
    /Kjell

RE: ..44

>    Since you seem to catigorise(sp?) "support" as a non-profit generating
>    activity. I can assure you that it _is_ generating a profit for Digital.

Let's define out terms here:

1) "Support" could mean Field Service, those wonderful dedicated and very
   hardworking people who go out to our customers and fix the equipment
   when it breaks, as well as install new equipment when we sell it.

2) "Support" could also mean the Customer Support Centers, those wonderful
   dedicated and very hardworking people who answer our customer's questions
   after the sale.

3) "Support" could *also* mean pre-sales Technical Support, who help our
   wonderful dedicated and very hardworking Sales people to sell this stuff.

(1) and (2) **definitely** are a profit generating activity.  We sell the
support contracts and make lots of money for Digital.

(3) is not a profit generating activity.  It is an overhead function, just
as our adminstrative (CAS) people are.  It is a *necessary* function, but
it is clearly overhead.

-- Ken Moreau
   (who has been in (3) for 6 years now)

> 2) "Support" could also mean the Customer Support Centers, those 
wonderful
>   dedicated and very hardworking people who answer our customer's 
questions
>   after the sale.

So glad to see some people think of the CSC's as a "good place". We 
are constantly being told that we are doing a very bad job, but in 
the end, it turns out we are just way understaffed

    CSCs are a "good place".  Problem is that when I or any other customer
    call them we are under stress because we have a problem.  We of course
    would like to have the answer yesterday and when we are faced to wait
    or miss callbacks we immediately get even more stressed.  Hard to
    satisfy everyone under these conditions unless:
    
    1) you never get put into a queue
    2) the 1st person you talk to knows the answer to everything
    
    BTW, as a pre-sales type I'm not sure I like being called overhead.
    I thought that's what the sale dude was we when do a 4 legged sales
    call!
    
    ....martin
    ;^)

    Re: .44 Support, as in category 1 & 2 (post-sales break/fix, CSCs) is
    generating a profit for the same reason insurance companies always
    generate a profit....the customer/consumer can't possible gain from it
    and the supplier can't possibly lose. In the insurance analogy, the
    customer is betting he's going to live a long time and the insurance 
    company is betting he's going to die sooner rather than later. Eventually 
    everyone dies, its just a matter of when and do the premiums paid cover
    the pay-out amount. 
    
    MCS has been milking a cash cow for many years and making a profit for
    Digital (which probably was one of the main reasons Digital has
    survived). MCS is betting that the MAJORITY of the customers under
    contract never have to make use of their service contract. If this
    happens, the contract is almost ALL MARGIN (once overhead costs are
    removed). What a deal! Only problem is that machines are more reliable
    now, many come with 3 year warranties, and obsolecence/capital
    depreciation comes much more quickly than it did only a few years ago.
    So the cash cow is drying up, and in an alarmingly fast rate. This is
    one of the reasons why MCS is looking at moving more into "value-added"
    services, such as network/system management, network consulting, etc.
    
    Hopefully this move will come fast enough to stop the profit
    hemmoraging. Its unfortunate that the layoffs are coming at the "feet
    on the street" level when there is so much overhead in the MCS matrix
    management structure. 
    
    Debbie
     

    Re. 48:
    
    Actually, in the insurance business, the betting is just the reverse. 
    When you purchase a policy, you are betting that you will die, because
    otherwise you (OK, your beneficiaries) can't collect.  The insurance 
    company is betting you won't die anytime soon, in which case it gets to 
    keep and invest all those delicious premiums.
    
    M

    re: .49   Right, that's what I meant   ;*)
    
    Debbie
    

    
    rep .41
    
    .40 said:
    
    >    The day that we start letting go management in the middle between
    >    CC mgrs & direct contributors, and the leadership at the top when
    >    business goals are not met is the day we get back on the road
    >    to success and rebuilding the pyramid correctly.
    
    .41 said:
    
    There has been a tremendous turnover in top "leadership" since Bob
    Palmer took over, some of it clearing out the old guard and some
    booting his own folks who didn't meet business goals.
    
    There wasn't any room for Lucente, Jack Smith, Brebach, Cabrinety, 
    McNulty, John Sims, Zereski, etc., etc., to hide though.
    
    
    	
    Question:  Which one of the above is/was a middle manager??
    
    From what I've seen middle management has grown.  The top management
    V.P.s have grown in numbers.  The bottom tier workers, the one in the
    trenches have been decimated.  
    
    /art

    Back to the base note - I didn't necessarily agree with all you said -
    But I always respected your right to say it - and your ability to
    punctuate your notes with liberal doses of the truth.
    
    Quite often a note was not deemed worthy of discussion in the field
    unless the "Greyhawk" was one who responded - you always gave the
    discussions a sense of dignity and integrity - no one can ever take
    that away from you -
    
    To those of us still here - We have a responsibilty to take up the
    banner -  If for no other reason than to get management to respond to
    the following question(s)?
    
    If part of "the reason" for "rightsizing the organization" was to empower
    the field and shrink management - Why does field sales have
    three more management levels than before the "rightsizing" began? and
    why must a sales person go up four or more layers to get a decision?
    
    As I believe the "Greyhawk" would have said:
    "Selling is the easiest job in the world if you remember two things:
    1) People buy from people they trust. 
    2) Sell yourself, your company and then your product.
    
    Take care - you will be missed.
    

    *** FLASH *** FLASH *** FLASH ***
    
    ... we interrupt this electronic enshrinement for a quick reader's
    editorial commentary...
    
    if the 'hawk has so many that hold him in such high esteem, how come he
    hasn't done what Ken has done and start his own thing...?
    
    see ya 'hawk; never knew ya, but worked in Elk Grove Village for a bit
    and love da bulls!
    
    cheers,
    
    /Mic
    

    
    rep .0
    
    Now that we've kicked him off our team, maybe he will!
    
    /art

    Hawk, what can I say.  We have toiled together in this game for many a
    year, seen MM's come and go like fresh recruits down at the Marine
    Corp.'s office, convinced customers to fork over tens of millions of
    dollars for technology that half the time they really deep down didn't
    always understand why they were buying it but knew and trusted the
    people they were buying it from.  

    We stood in the rain of poop pouring down upon us from one BU to
    another.  Weathered untold downsizing's, rightsizing's, implosions,
    product line blow outs and a plethora of new age management ideals that
    will give the boys down the street at Harvard case material for years
    to come.  (Business Management 299: How not to run a company, Digital
    Equipment, a case study).
    
    We have seen and heard so much mumble speak pour from the mouths of
    V.P.'s who wouldn't know how to do a features/benefits presentation on
    life boats to the crew of the Titanic.  We have weathered untold zig's
    when they want zag's and vice versa.  We tried to sell VAX 9000's as
    mainframes and did over 200 over them at a cost of over a Billion
    dollars.
    
    We watched whole markets sail right past our door: workstations,
    software, PC's, routers and hubs, Networks running Novell, laptops and
    more, yet we sold what we had and went on with our business at hand.
    
    We travled to customer sites at every hour imaginable through some of
    the worst press bashing times you can imagine, yet we percervered.  We
    fought competitive bids in true hand to hand combat style while
    watching 65,000 of our friends, families, brothers and sisters leave,
    their choice or the company's.  Yet we marched on stalwart in our
    personal and individual campaigns.
    
    We laughed and cried, rejoiced and consoled.  We worked hard, sweated
    our way through thousands of hours of demos, bid proposals, 
    manufacturing and delivery challenges and tried to maintain a sense of
    purpose, diginity and respect for those involved.  We drank cold
    champagne after wins and cold beer after losses and said in true Bullwinkle
    fashion, "Next time for sure!!"
    
    We took care of our own, our customers, each other and our convictions,
    driven that we were "Doing the right thing" each ascribed by our
    individual principles or what that right thing was.  And it worked
    pretty much as well as it could.
    
    Greyhawk, this is not an adious to you.  This is our collective best
    wishes for a long a prosperous life away from here.  Who knows, last I
    heard they still don't recycle your badge numbers.
    
    So, as Viper said to Maverick in TOPGUN, "You'll get your rear when you
    get to your ship.  If not, give me a call, I'll fly with you anywhere."
    
    Savoy 6, out
    
    Maverick

    Better late then never... (as I catch up a little on a sunday
    afternoon)
    
    Thanks Grayhawk for all the selling, externally and internally of
    Digital Equipment (DEC).
    
    May the wind be at your back.... Good Selling...
    
    John Wisniewski