| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 2460.1 | Probably some product manager trying to save an inferior product | LACGID::BIAZZO | How low can we go? | Fri Apr 09 1993 13:50 | 11 |
| A similar proposal restricting certain third-party hardware resales was put to
Bob Palmer a couple months ago. An attempt by a group who shall go unnamed to
protect a product that is hopelessly laggard with respect to its competitiveness
in the market. This was fortunately shot down.
Given the announcement of a new systems integration vp, (and from the outside
yet) I would guess that maybe we're going to get serious about SI now and not
have any restrictions on what we can or cannot sell.
SI means selling what the customer wants and *best* suits his needs, not what
we make and would like to force fit into a solution.
|
| 2460.2 | Internal, or for Systems Integration?? | IOSG::SHOVE | Dave Shove -- REO2-G/M6 | Fri Apr 09 1993 15:01 | 8 |
| Re: .1
I took .0 to mean "3rd-party software that Digital can purchase FOR
INTERNAL USE"
Was I right?
D.
|
| 2460.3 | | ECADSR::SHERMAN | Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a | Fri Apr 09 1993 16:05 | 8 |
| That's how I read it, too. Could this signal a swinging of the
pendulum from external software solutions back to internal software
solutions? If so, this would have a shattering affect on long-term
planning for many organizations -- especially those (like mine) who
have committed to "downsizing" internally-developed solutions for
internal customers.
Steve
|
| 2460.4 | | SMURF::BINDER | Deus tuus tibi sed deus meus mihi | Fri Apr 09 1993 18:54 | 4 |
| Sell something (a solution) that we can't use internally? Su-u-ure!
Put Digital's name on it? Oh, wow, I think it's time for me to go back
to school and pass the bar so I can rake in the dough when all these
untested solutions start failing.
|
| 2460.5 | Preliminary list only | ESGWST::HALEY | become a wasp and hornet | Sat Apr 10 1993 00:27 | 10 |
| I was shown a PRELIMINARY list of 25 applications that was proposed. The
copy I was shown was physical so I can't post it. It refered to internal
use. Since the finance group in my organization won't approve an update of
PowerPoint I can't read or use the latest presentations prepared for us.
THe list of approved appliations had things like Lotus 1-2-3, Microsoft
EXCEL, Word, WFW, Powerpoint. Being approved (on the list) does not mean
that finance will approve, only that not being approved bars approval.
Matt
|
| 2460.6 | Is this what you're talking about? See VTX PCSOFTWARE | SPESHR::JOHNSON | | Sat Apr 10 1993 00:33 | 44 |
| *** INTERNAL USE SOFTWARE FOR PERSONAL COMPUTERS ***
Approved Software List (Tentative) Page 1 of 3
NOTE: Following is the tentative list of approved third-party software
products for internal use. Once the ban on software purchasing has
been lifted, employees will be able to purchase these products.
Category Product Name
___________________________ _____________________________
Application Development Borland C++
Microsoft C++
Visual Basic
Communications Reflections 2+
Reflections 4+
Procomm Plus for Windows
Databases dBase IV
Foxbase
Microsoft Access
Paradox
Presentation Graphics Harvard Graphics
PowerPoint for Windows
Security Trusted Access
Spreadsheets Lotus 1-2-3
Microsoft Excel
Suites Lotus SmartSuite
Microsoft Office for Windows
Task/Time Management Microsoft Project for Windows
Utility Norton Utilities - International
PC Tools Deluxe
Stacker
Word Processing Microsoft Word
WordPerfect
WordPerfect for Windows
|
| 2460.7 | | ECADSR::SHERMAN | Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a | Sat Apr 10 1993 13:25 | 6 |
| Ah. This appears to be PC stuff only. No mention of software for
running on VMS and Ultrix machines, near as I can tell. This move
should have no impact on my group since most PC usage is at home
and we've only got a few small PCs for the group.
Steve
|
| 2460.8 | Confused! | IW::WARING | Simplicity sells | Sun Apr 11 1993 12:41 | 7 |
| What's the raison d'etre for this list? I'm more than happy with AmiPro and
Lotus Improv, and can deal with the file formats of the "recommended" products
with ease.
You'll also find integrated suites that contain mail components that don't
align with our own messaging strategy!
- Ian W.
|
| 2460.9 | The bureaucrats shall inherit the earth.. | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Contains Sulfites | Sun Apr 11 1993 22:53 | 12 |
| Um, right..
What about non-general-purpose PC software (e.g. CAD tools)? The req
gets to purchasing and they say "Oh, PC software! No can do!" .. go
through the long line of groveling, cajoling, educating, and *maybe*
you get waht you needed 6 weeks ago.. and then, because of the number
of people and groups involved, you get cross-charged twice for it!
This is really getting annoying.. Let's see what else we can think of
to slow development down..
...tom
|
| 2460.10 | A lot of analysis went into this list (NOT!) | DYPSS1::COGHILL | Steve Coghill, Luke 14:28 | Mon Apr 12 1993 13:45 | 15 |
| 2460.11 | fine to pre-approve but not to prevent | CARAFE::GOLDSTEIN | Global Village Idiot | Mon Apr 12 1993 19:32 | 21 |
| This isn't funny, it's sick.
It's fine to have a list of "pre-approved" software that is "presumed"
to be correct to buy for "general office use". That's how most PCs are
used, and if somebody wants to put together a list of products that are
so generally useful that nobody should have to think twice, then the
list is fine.
But PCs are used for a lot of other applications. If this list is
taken as preventing the purchase of ANY PC software for ANY task if
it's not on the list, then it's completely insane. Not atypical of
Digital lately (is Jack Smith's ghost still roaming the halls?) but
still utterly friggin' nuts.
I was shopping for a protocol analyzer lately. One vendor had a nice
board that plugs into a laptop PC, sold separately. Total price no
higher than a standalone analyzer. Purchasing warned me that it'd be
very hard to get approval, since I'd need to buy the Toshiba laptop and
it wouldn't get by very easily. This sort of micromanagement is doing
more to bankrupt us than all the wasteful spending we ever did put
together.
|
| 2460.12 | RE .6 - What's the keyword? | MIMS::HUNT_B | | Mon Apr 12 1993 20:20 | 6 |
| Whats the keyword under VTX to see this list? I used PCSOFTWARE to no
avail. I looked through several of the menu structures also.
Thanks,
Bing
|
| 2460.13 | wildcard the keyword | CSOADM::ROTH | ELVIS:: is alive... and reachable!! | Tue Apr 13 1993 11:32 | 14 |
| Re: .12
In VTX, do a <PF1><KP7> and then enter PC*<return> and see what you get.
This is what I get:
Keyword Menu
1 PCCD Personnel Cost Center Directory
2 PCGUIDE PC Interoperability Guide
3 PCSOFTWARE Software for Personal Computers
4 PCV Admin & Logistics Program Coord-Europe
Lee
|
| 2460.14 | | SPESHR::JOHNSON | | Tue Apr 13 1993 11:34 | 2 |
| I got there by typing VTX PCSOFTWARE at the DCL prompt. Admin is
listed as THATS::PCSOFTWARE, fwiw.
|
| 2460.15 | | XLIB::SCHAFER | Mark Schafer, ISV Tech. Support | Tue Apr 13 1993 15:52 | 12 |
| I think the idea is to cut spending. Maybe the list is of packages that
Purchasing has negotiated special deals with the vendor. The directive
would reward those vendors and encourage others to sign up!
The PC phenomenon has alot to do with status and pride, not so much
with job requirements. Joe wants AUTOCAD because Susie has it, and
Digital pays for it.
If you absolutely need the software, follow the exception process and
get it. Sure it's more work, but you DO need it, right?
Mark
|
| 2460.16 | | PRAVDA::Jackson | King Cynic | Tue Apr 13 1993 16:16 | 17 |
| The idea is exactly that. We've negotiated deals with those vendors
(admittedly, we didnt' negotiate the spreadsheet deal with joe-blow
from Kokomo's spreadsheet company, we got the ones that people use)
Realize that the company doesn't have much cash these days, and purchasing
this kind of software consumes that cash. Putting controls on these things
may hurt ( and may be shortsighted) but when you don't have the cash,
you don't spend it, or at least try to make the person requesting
things REALLY prove that they need the software.
-bill
PS. I wonder if DEC will pay for a DOS 6 upgrade? Given that
most of our jobs don't depend on having this capability, I would hope
not!
|
| 2460.17 | What are the benefits of upgrading? | CSC32::K_HYDE | Yes, we do windows -- CX03-2/J4 592-4181 | Tue Apr 13 1993 16:47 | 18 |
| Re: -.1 DOS upgrade to 6.0
1) I'd hope that we'd get corporate-wide license for that sort of
upgrade.
2) I support customers who access Rdb databases from PC's and maybe only
a few of us Digits might need the upgrade.
3) I see a kind of thought process our company has needed (and not had)
for a number of years now. We are asking if the upgrade is worth
it. In other words, "Is the upgrade version number also an increase
in value as measured by benefits to us (Digital)?"
We are now thinking in a manner similar to our customers. How does
it feel? It felt good for us when we were the dog and they girated
wildly as we wagged our tail, but I don't think it feels so good
now.
Kurt
|
| 2460.18 | Symptoms of the continuing problems... | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Tue Apr 13 1993 17:59 | 46 |
| This discussion is symptomatic of two incredibly serious problems
within Digital. Either is enough to cripple the company, both will
kill it.
1) The "Approved List"
Since it's not presented in the manner of an "IS will help you with
support on these" list it appears to be top-down management by rule
rather than goal.
Are departments/sections/divisions/business units to be measured by
profit or by conformance to nit-picking rules? (Implementation of
exception processes cost, nay WASTE, dollars!)
One is tempted to ponder the mindset of an upper management group with
so little trust.
2) The outright refusal to use our own products!! This sort of "Well, we
wrote it so it must be crummy." attitude rubs off on our customers!
Examples: DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
(Period!)
All the sales people around me run off and pay for MS-WORD.
The **Stupidest** excsue I got was: "When it gets a majority
of marketshare then I'll use it." -- From a sales manager,
no less!!
DECplan provides project and time management for groups on
a client-server basis. This is what we say will be next -
"client-server". Everyone thinks we should get Microsoft
project! Why? It can't update from multiple sources at the
same time. It can't be networked. It's project size is
limited. Etc Etc Etc.
If we don't believe in ourselves, no-one else will believe in us.
As it stands, (another note's topic) we're headed down the road to
becoming a chip-maker with a single product. That should be good for
about 1,000 employees and $100M in sales ***IF*** our single product is
provably the best and well marketed.
Don
|
| 2460.19 | | PRAVDA::Jackson | King Cynic | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:04 | 18 |
| RE: .18
DECwrite is a pig, and the only reason that I have it installed on my
PC is that I had a workstation in my previous 5 years and have lots of
documents that I need to look at occasionally. It's overkill as a word
processor and can't even begin to cut it as a full page layout package
I tried DECplan once, it was cryptic, slow and crashed alot. I hope things
have gotten better since then, but until then, Microsoft project will
do just fine.
We should be using the tools that our customers are buying, and they're
buying PC software like AmiPro and Word for word processors, not DECwrite.
-bill
|
| 2460.20 | | STAR::ABBASI | checkmate! | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:30 | 7 |
| >Examples: DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
> (Period!)
that may be true, i never used it, but i got AMIPRO for $79 or so,
how much does DECwrite cost for the PC? just curious...
\nasser
|
| 2460.21 | Why work here at all??? | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:32 | 25 |
| re .19
DECwrite V2.0 on Windows is no slower than Word for Windows if you have
at least 6MB of memory. Plus it does more.
DECplan is far less cryptic than Project (IMHO) and apart from -far-
better "Help" offers more features - particularly those involved in
managing projects with input from more than a single source. Project
is fine if everyone submits updates to a clerk who then enters them
into the PC.
And YOU are part of the problem for at least two reasons!
1) Your ATTITUDE that we should follow our customers rather than lead
by example. Maybe you should do eveything on an AS 400 because 'our
customer uses one'. I presume that the workstation you speak of was a
SUN as they were the initial market leader.
2) Your ineffective and cursory evaluations of products. Perhaps you
should be asked a time-limited skill testing question and then presumed
to be ignorant forever and on all subjects because if didn't know the
answer. Perhaps you should walk to work because the first automobile
wasn't technically sound and used inconvenient quantities of wood.
|
| 2460.22 | Too much/Only from DEC/You can't | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:38 | 22 |
| Re: .20
You are now touching the surface of another giant problem for
Digital...
How much does Digital charge for their product(s)?
Where can I get Digital product(s)?
How does anyone find out about Digital product(s)?
Then comes the inevitable MBA decision to scrap the bottom 10% of
products based on sales or profit or whatever without spending 20
seconds on trying to figure out why something's not selling. (Or in
Digital's case, not BEING SOLD!)
To respond directly to your question, I don't know. I use it
internally and therefore ordered it internally. I am a workie and such
things as cost of things is deemed byond my understanding, so I can not
easily find out.
Don
|
| 2460.23 | | MAGEE::GIBSON | | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:46 | 18 |
|
re: .18
I was one of two DECPlan experts in my former group. I don't have
a window terminal or work station in my new group, so can no longer
use the product. The following are reasons that DECPlan doesn't have
greater acceptance in the company:
1. For a small project, keeping the complete project plan on
DECPlan would make the process bigger than the project.
2. For a large project, keeping the complete project plan on
DECPlan would require one person to be dedicated 100% to
maintaining the plan.
Just my $.02.
|
| 2460.24 | one persons view of the answers | CX3PT1::CSC32::R_MCBRIDE | This LAN is made for you and me... | Tue Apr 13 1993 18:58 | 22 |
| DEC sales people could sell cars, they could sell dishwashers, they
could sell real estate. They are trying to sell computers,
applications and services to make their numbers and justify their
paychecks (and maybe soon, their commission checks). They will sell
whatever sells. DECwrite has to become a hot commodity before it sells
itself. It has to be good, people have to use it to find out if it is
any good and how good it is, then they have to talk to other people and
the press. The price has to be right. There has to be competent
support. (DECwrite is just a name for this dissertation, it could be
any product). If you want to sell DEC products you need to give them
away first, then hope for the upgrades. Upgrades have to be cheap,
$75- $150. The documentation has to be good or better for the initial
release. It has to be really easy to use and install and configure.
All the bells and whistles we call features have to be included in the
standard product. Everybody in the company has to know how to use the
product to some degree and know someone who knows it better who has
enough time to show it to customers. If we use the product internally,
there has to be some lighning quick response to product problems so
that our own people can have confidence that there is support in place.
There can't be a lot of product problems.
Rather than point out a bunch of DEC's problems, these are the answers.
|
| 2460.25 | the customer is often driving what we use | GUCCI::SANTSCHI | violence cannot solve problems | Tue Apr 13 1993 19:04 | 14 |
| i'm a proposal manager and the sales reps work with direct government
customers and prime contractors, small businesses etc.
these customers are now specifying that proposals (or technical input
to THEIR proposals to the end user) be submitted on PC applications
formatted diskettes. i.e. MS Word and WordPerfect are the leading
applications.
to even submit to be considered for capturing the business, we have to
use these applications. i have yet had a customer ask for anything in
DECwrite, which is what we use if there is no particular application
specified.
sue
|
| 2460.26 | DECwrite listed at $295 in PC Magazine, less than half FrameMaker's price | CSC32::D_SLOUGH | Buddy Can You Paradigm | Tue Apr 13 1993 19:40 | 34 |
| > >Examples: DECwrite is one of the best Word Processors available.
> > (Period!)
>
> that may be true, i never used it, but i got AMIPRO for $79 or so,
> how much does DECwrite cost for the PC? just curious...
> \nasser
A recent issue of PC Magazine compared DECwrite for Windows with FrameMaker
and Interleaf. It was a pretty favorable review, though they seemed to
prefer FrameMaker overall. They listed the prices as $295, $795, and $995
respectively. They didn't compare these document processors w/ any of the
popular and feature rich word processors like Ami Pro. $79 is an excellent
price for Ami Pro, even their ads list competitive upgrades at $129.
Re: .24
> DEC sales people could sell cars, they could sell dishwashers, they
> could sell real estate. They are trying to sell computers,
> applications and services to make their numbers and justify their
> paychecks (and maybe soon, their commission checks). They will sell
> whatever sells. DECwrite has to become a hot commodity before it sells
> itself.
I'm not sure what you're saying here, that DEC Sales can sell anything but
first the product must sell itself? Other than MS-DOS, Windows, and Intel
chips I can't think of any IT product which sells itself. Perhaps :^) some
additional marketing (of DECwrite) is in order, however I agree with Don
(.18 and others) giving up before we make the pitch is definately part of
the problem.
Dennis
Happy DECwrite User
|
| 2460.27 | If you knew our products... | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Tue Apr 13 1993 20:21 | 21 |
| re: .25
OK. Customers want their replies on diskette in format x so they can
do whatever with them. Do you:
a) Get at least one person fully up to speed on each of the formats
which have been requested? You list two, but there are potentially
others. Note also that you'll have to have all your boilerplates
available and ready.
- or -
b) Pick your own company's product, do the response in it and translate
it to the customer's preferred format with (again!) your own company's
product? This way you need a single type of expertise, and a single
library.
I pick B.
Don
|
| 2460.28 | Wanna write it? | VMSMKT::KENAH | There are no mistakes in Love... | Tue Apr 13 1993 20:25 | 4 |
| The problem with B is that there's no "DECwrite to PC-based software"
translator.
andrew
|
| 2460.29 | The REAL problem with Digital... | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Tue Apr 13 1993 20:30 | 7 |
| ... is that no-one even knows we have the products!
Re: .28
Try the CDA converter library. Please!
|
| 2460.30 | I tried, and failed | NOVA::SWONGER | Rdb Software Quality Engineering | Tue Apr 13 1993 21:10 | 11 |
| > -< The REAL problem with Digital... >-
> ... is that no-one even knows we have the products!
> Try the CDA converter library. Please!
Interesting sentiment. I have a document that I wrote while on GEEP.
It's in FrameMaker format, and I wanted to distribute it within
Digital, because it's of interest to a fairly wide community. I am
absolutely unable to convert from FrameMaker to any of the formats
that I have at my disposal here (DECWrite, Postscript, Wordperfect).
Roy
|
| 2460.31 | | HARBOR::JACKSON | King Cynic | Tue Apr 13 1993 22:58 | 24 |
| Don
"My ineffective and cursory evaluations of products" included EVERY
field test release of DECwrite on VMS and on Windows. I've used
DECwrite for several years.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good product, however it's too much forw the
general word processor market and too little for the page layout
people. It's lacking features that cheap products have (for instance,
where's the color?) DECpresent also, it's a good product, but it has
its problems and the other presentation packages are blowing by it.
(they also have their limitations, Powerpoint specifically)
We should sell what our customers want, by solving their problems the
way they want them to be solved. The market has spoken and DECwrite
isn't the answer. (Lotus will sell more copies of Amipro between the
time that I write this reply and you reply than we've EVER sold of
DECwrite) I know the frustration, I know the marketing manager for
DECwrite/DECpresent very well and he knwos that my use has stressed his
product to the limits.
-bill
|
| 2460.32 | My 2 | 42702::WELSH | Think it through | Wed Apr 14 1993 09:22 | 18 |
| 2460.33 | Hobby if bult on DEC gear | ESGWST::HALEY | become a wasp and hornet | Mon Apr 19 1993 23:13 | 9 |
| I think it will stay a hobby business untill the engineering managers
specify that the product be built on NON-DEC hardware and then ported.
Maybe make them port to Sun first. I would assume the first target would
automatically be MS Windows.
In the nest fiscal year we may actually see marketing specify this in the
funding of the engineering.
Matt
|
| 2460.34 | Where's the price list for this internal software? | SMAUG::GARROD | From VMS -> NT; Unix a mere page from history | Thu Apr 22 1993 03:24 | 8 |
| Does anybody have the list of internal prices that goes with the list
from .6. The list is on VTX PCSOFTWARE but there are no prices there.
I can't find the prices on VTX anywhere.
I've been told Microsoft Office is $60 and Winword is about $30.
I'd like to have the complete price list. Anybody got it?
Dave
|
| 2460.35 | this is only for a few products | CAADC::BABCOCK | | Thu Apr 22 1993 14:18 | 220 |
| THIS OFFER IS OPEN TO ALL DIGITAL EMPLOYEES IN THE CONTINENTAL U.S. !!!!
As of June 2, 1992, all Digital employees are able to purchase Lotus software
at the reduced price of 15% of Lotus's suggested list price. All Lotus upgrade
packages will be offered at 50% of Lotus's suggested list price. In order to
take advantage of this offer Digital employees should call: 1-800-343-5414
Digital employees will be asked to provide Digital employee number and form
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individuals that will want to pay by personal check please call the 800 number
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Note: ALL UPGRADES ARE AVIALABLE TO DIGITAL EMPLOYEES AT 50% OF LOTUS LIST
PRICE.
HERE IS A SAMPLE LIST OF LOTUS PRODUCTS AND THE DIGITAL EMPLOYEE PRICE.
Product Lotus List Price Digital Employee Price
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lotus 1-2-3 version 2.4 $495 $74.25
Lotus 1-2-3 version 2.3 $495 $74.25
Lotus 1-2-3 version 3.1+ $595 $89.25
Lotus 1-2-3 for Windows $595 $89.25
Lotus 1-2-3 for Macintosh $495 $74.25
Lotus Agenda $395 $59.25
Lotus Freelance Graphics/Win $495 $74.25
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Lotus Ami Pro for Windows $495 $74.25
Lotus Smart Suite $795 $119.25
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Lotus Smart PICS $199 $29.85
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--Your VISA or MasterCard number with expiration date, (no
American Express accepted) or certified check payable to
Autodesk, Inc., including appropriate sales tax. There is
no charge for delivery.
--Ship to address and phone number
--The specific product reqeusted at the Corporate Price.
For example: AutoCAD Release 11 would be $1,925,
$3,500 less 45% discount.
3) The name of a supporting dealer must also appear on this purchase
request. If you do not know the name of an Authorized Autodesk
dealer please call Carter Coleman.
This program is only for the employees of Digital. Only employees in the
USA and Canada are eligible and only one copy per employee.
All purchases are subject to the terms and conditions of the Major Account
Agreement now in force and the Software LIcense which accompanies each
package.
With this program in place you can increase your working knowledge of Autodesk
products and also ensure that you are not in violaion of the software license
agreement regarding illegal copying.
If you have any questions regarding this program please contact Carter
Colman directly or Lori Winn, the Digital Autodesk Account Manager,
DTN: 521-4139.
FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
AUTODESK, INC.
PRODUCT PRICE SCHEDULE
PRODUCT LIST PRICE (BEFORE DISCOUNT)
AutoCAD Release 12 $3,750 (call for platform availabilty)
AutoCAD Release 11 $3,500
AutoCAD Release 11 for 386 with
Advanced Modeling Etension $3,995
AutoCAD Release 11 for 386 $3,500
AutoCAD Release 11 for 286 $2,500
AutoCAD Release 10 for 386 $3,300
AutoCAD Release 10 for 286 $2,500
AutoCAD Release 10 $3,000
AutoCAD 3D Studio $2,995
AutoShade Version 2.0
without RenderMan $ 500
AutoShade Version 2.0
with Autodesk RenderMan $1,000
Advanced Modeling Extension $ 495
Autodesk Animator $ 495
Autodesk Animator Pro $ 795
Generic CADD 5.0 $ 495
Generic CADD for Macintosh $ 595
AutoSketch Version 3 $ 249
Autodesk Animator Clips
Textures I (Man-Made) $ 149
Textures II (Natural) $ 149
Business Communications $ 149
Animals/Fantasy $ 149
Holidays/Sports $ 149
Weddings $ 149
Toons $ 149
Specifal Effects: Titling $ 149
GenCADD Architectural $ 990
GenCADD Architectural Module $ 495
GenCADD FF&E $ 790
GenCADD FF&E Module $ 295
GenCADD COGO $ 990
GenCADD COGO Module $ 495
RenderMan is a registered trademark of Pixar used by Autodesk under
license by Pixar.
Generic Software, Inc. ("Generic"), a wholly owned subsidiary of Autodesk,
Inc., shall license the Licensed Programs to Licensee, invoice Licensee for
Licensed Programs ordered and shall ship such Licensed Programs F.O.B.
Generic's manufacturing plant.
|
| 2460.36 | .35 from VTX EPP | CAADC::BABCOCK | | Thu Apr 22 1993 14:29 | 10 |
| Oppps, I should mention that .35 came out of VTX EPP. I ordered
the Microsoft office package, and it arrived yesterday. This was
paid for with MY money. I have no idea how one might get DEC to
buy this stuff, but then, I don't use it for doing my Digital job.
I wish I could have gotten an EPP price on the Borland
C++ I just installed. This stuff gets expensive. I am learning
C++ and OO on my own to improve my marketability. I assume I will be
picked in the next round of TFSO's.
Judy
|
| 2460.37 | Not the right price list | SMAUG::GARROD | From VMS -> NT; Unix a mere page from history | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:04 | 11 |
| Re .35
Yes I knew about what you just posted from VTX EPP. As you point out
that is for enployee purchases for your own use paid for with your own
money.
What I'm looking for is the price list to go with the software listed
in .6 which is purchased for internal use by DEC by a DEC cost center.
It is a lot cheaper than the EPP prices.
Dave
|
| 2460.38 | What's Magellan? | TNPUBS::JONG | Steve Jong/T&N Publications | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:27 | 3 |
| What is Magellan? Does it run on a PC or a Macintosh?
(Please send me mail and spare the readership 8^) Thanks!
|
| 2460.39 | What about Mac users . . . | STOWOA::CROWTHER | Maxine 276-8226 | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:28 | 5 |
| RE: .35
What about those of us loking for Microsoft applications for the Mac??
Not included??
|
| 2460.40 | I gave up and said "to heck with it"!!! | SOLVIT::GRTVAX::THERRIEN | | Thu Apr 22 1993 15:45 | 16 |
| re: .35
I went thru the process of getting the Digital corporate price for Mocrosoft
Excel a few weeks ago. If memory serves me correctly, it's about $35.
Seems to me that we only have to pay royalty - no license fees. However,
it required VP signature because 3rd party products were on hold for Digital
purchase.
I had offered to purchase it thru EPP and submit an expense, but that was
frowned on. It wasn't worth if for me to pursue the VP (and, I assume, all
intermediate level) approvals to get the software.
In my search, I discovered that it has to be ordered thru SSB. You can request
the order form from WMOIS::SDCISO
Gerry
|
| 2460.41 | SSB ordering info | RTL::LAPINE | | Thu Apr 22 1993 16:09 | 20 |
|
MicroSoft Powerpoint for Windows
From the SSB: Part # QB-MDFAA-FA
Price: $34.87
MicroSoft Excel
From the SSB: Part # QA-MDEAA-HW
Price: $33.87
Visual BASIC
From the SSB: Part # QA-ME8AA-HW
Price: $24.76
MicroSoft Office
From the SSB: Part # QA-MK3AA-HW
Price: $57.04
MicroSoft Word for Windows
From the SSB: Part # QA-MDDAA-HW
Price: $53.59
|
| 2460.42 | | GUIDUK::FARLEE | Insufficient Virtual...um...er... | Thu Apr 22 1993 16:43 | 11 |
| RE: .39
As of the last time I checked, there is NO agreement between Digital
and Microsoft for any sort of purchase of any Macintosh software.
Several of us mounted a letter-writing campaign to both Digital and
Microsoft encouraging such an agreement, but it was courteously received and
not acted upon.
You're probably stuck with retail.
Kevin
|
| 2460.43 | .41 prices not totally accurate | FDCV14::HEUSS | Forward into the past | Fri Apr 23 1993 13:11 | 5 |
| Beware of the prices quoted in .41. Those prices are the cost of media &
shipping from the SSB and DO NOT include the license fees that Digital must
pay MicroSoft. The license fee is picked up at a later time by the license
admin folks and billed to your cost center separately.
|
| 2460.44 | SSB order form | CSOADM::ROTH | you just KEEP ME hangin' on... | Fri Apr 23 1993 16:46 | 65 |
|
U.S. SOFTWARE SUPPLY BUSINESS
WESTMINSTER MA
508-874-3023 OR DTN 241-3023
PLEASE RETURN FORM TO WMOIS::SDCISO OR SDCISO @WMO
PLEASE FILE A COPY FOR FUTURE USE
*** U.S.S.S.B. INTERNAL SOFTWARE ORDER FORM ***
(REVISED ORDER FORM 1993)
REQUESTOR:
BADGE # |
REQUESTOR |
COST CENTER |
DTN/EXT |
EMAIL |
AUTHORIZE:
BADGE# |
NAME |
COST CENTER |
SHIP TO:
ATTN TO |
BADGE # |
MAIL STOP |
SHIP TO | DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORPORATION
ADDRESS |
CITY |
STATE |
ZIP CODE |
PHONE # |
NOTE: OUR CYCLE TIME IS 3 WORKING DAYS UPON RECEIPT OF ORDER
PUT AN "X" IN ONE OF THE FOLLOWING SHIP METHODS:
BESTWAY SURFACE [ ] OR OTHER [ ]
CHECK LIST: HAVE YOU FILLED IN ALL REQUIRED INFORMATION?
WARNING : THIRD-PARTY SOFTWARE MAY BE SUBJECT TO ROYALTY EXPENSE WHICH
WILL BE CHARGED TO YOUR COST CENTER. AN INTERNAL LICENSE
(1 PER CPU) MUST BE ORDERED FOR EACH SOFTWARE PRODUCT LISTED
ON THE QUARTERLY MEMO "REQUIRED INTERNAL LICENSE ORDERING",
SENT ELECTRONICALLY TO ALL U.S. COST CENTER MANAGERS. FOR
MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT ROYALTY ADMINISTRATION (SEE YOUR
DEC DIRECTORY).
IT IS AGAINST YOUR EMPLOYEE AGREEMENT TO REPRODUCE OR
TRANSFER SOFTWARE TO ANY ENTITY OUTSIDE OF Digital OR ANY
OTHER ORGANIZATION INSIDE OF Digital Equipment Corporation.
PUT AN "X" IN ONE: CURRENT [ ] OR ARCHIVE [ ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|MODEL NUMBER |VERSION| DESCRIPTION |QUANTITY|
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
| 2460.45 | Is this instead of IPA? | SMAUG::GARROD | From VMS -> NT; Unix a mere page from history | Fri Apr 23 1993 16:58 | 9 |
| Re .-1
Which is the correct method to use:
a) The IPA system
or
b) This order form
Dave
|
| 2460.46 | The 'correct' method is any one that works! | CSOADM::ROTH | you just KEEP ME hangin' on... | Fri Apr 23 1993 17:43 | 7 |
| I dunno. I have ordered, on occasion, via VAXmail using such a form
and got what I ordered. What's an IPA? Internal Purchase Authorization?
Long, long ago I recall somthing called an ISOF (Internal Software Order
Form)
Lee (a scrounger who doesn't order software very often)
|
| 2460.47 | add'l info | RTL::LAPINE | | Tue Apr 27 1993 15:00 | 30 |
| re: .43
I stand corrected. Listed below are the costs with licensing fees included.
Office and VB still work out to less than half the current upgrade-edition
street cost, though slightly more than the Employee Purchase price. Word,
Excel and Powerpoint individually are no buy but that's not anything new.
MicroSoft Office
Part # QA-MK3AA-HW $57.04 (SSB) + $112.00 (lic.) = $169.04
Visual BASIC
Part # QA-ME8AA-HW $24.76 (SSB) + $ 30.00 (lic.) = $ 54.76
MicroSoft Word
Part # QA-MDDAA-HW $53.59 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $127.59
MicroSoft Excel
Part # QA-MDEAA-HW $33.87 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $107.87
MicroSoft Powerpoint
Part # QB-MDFAA-FA $34.87 (SSB) + $ 74.00 (lic.) = $108.87
FWIW, the licensing fee for the combined DOS/Windows kit (QB-MESAA-SA)
is fifty cents.
re: .45
Use the form provided for ordering from the SSB. Use the IPA system to
create purchase requisitions for external orders (such as from 800-Software.)
|
| 2460.48 | does what palmer say really apply | GUCCI::SANTSCHI | violence cannot solve problems | Thu Apr 29 1993 17:25 | 5 |
| it would be interesting to find out, after watching palmer answer a
question about VP approval for post-its, if ssb is still needing VP
approval for this software.
sue
|
| 2460.49 | Nothing really new to report | SMAUG::GARROD | From VMS -> NT; Unix a mere page from history | Thu Apr 29 1993 22:35 | 170 |
| Re .-1
I called the SSB. They still require VP approval. I have submitted
a DELTA idea suggesting that this VP approval for $50 software
purchases is ridiculous. The DELTA message people sent me a reply
saying my suggestion has been sent to George Potter in Finance at AKO.
I'll let everybody know when I hear something.
Meanwhile my managers manager insisted another level of approval was
needed in the chain before going to the VP( ie his manager). I expect the
next thing that will be told to my secretary is that it'll have to go
finance before going to the VP.
Maybe I should go into the autograph gathering business. Attached
is the response I got from DELTA. Got to give it to them I got that
response quickly. Let's see if the person who has been given the
problem responds quickly.
Dave
From: LKGMTS::LKGMTS::MRGATE::"OGOMTS::STOWOA::MRGATE::STOWOA::DELTA_IDEAS" 28-APR-1993 21:59:58.34
To: SMAUG::GARROD
CC:
Subj: DELTA Idea NO: DA6939; VP SIGNATURES ON PO
From: NAME: DELTA_IDEAS <DELTA_IDEAS@STOWOA@MRGATE@STOWOA@OGO>
To: DAVID GARROD@LKG@STOWOA
David -
Thank you for submitting your idea: VP SIGNATURES ON PO.
The registration number for this idea is DA6939. Please refer to this
number when making inquiries regarding your idea.
After reviewing your idea, we have forwarded it to FIN P & P.
You should expect an acknowledgement of receipt from them within the
next week and a response within 30 days. If you do not receive them or they
are not satisfactory then follow up directly with GEORGE POTTER @AKO
and copy DELTA.
DELTA is here to help you get your Idea to the right organization,
to follow up with the responders to make sure that you get a response, and
to follow up with you once a response is received. We can act as your
advocate at your request. We facilitate the process but also count on
your initiative for getting your good ideas implemented.
We have a Notesfile (STOWOA::DELTA_IDEAS) for the purpose of discussing
Ideas and Proposals. Please let us know whether you would like your
Idea to be posted.
We also have a VTX application (VTX DELTA) which will: give you information
about Employee Involvement at Digital, allow you to look at results
that others have achieved, answer some frequently submitted ideas,
and give you information on how to implement good ideas at your own site.
Attached are instructions and a DELTA Idea Form for future ideas that you
would like to submit. Please share it with others!
If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to call us.
Regards,
Paul Rondina, DTN 276-9167
DELTA Team
IDEAS FORM Instructions --- DELTA --- You Make a Difference Rev 2.7
YOUR IDEAS ARE APPRECIATED
Thank you for contacting the DELTA Program Office. Before filling in this
form, please read over this memo. It contains pointers which will help your
idea be more successful.
At this very moment, no one has a clearer picture of your idea or knows more
about it than you do. Within Digital's new 'You Make a Difference' framework,
you are empowered to make constructive change.
TAKE ACTION YOURSELF
First, please give strong and serious consideration to implementing your idea
yourself or within your own group - and then sharing your results through the
DELTA process. The 'Do It Yourself' method has a number of advantages:
- Implementation takes the form you have in mind
- Rate of implementation is under your control
- You are the first to receive the benefits of your idea
Please remember to share the results from doing it yourself so other groups
may benefit from your efforts. Also, your efforts deserve appropriate DELTA
recognition. If you 'Do It Yourself' (Propose and Do) or with a group the
Ideas Form can then be used to submit your results to DELTA.
REQUEST SUPPORT IF NEEDED
When implementing locally your assigned Support Council should be of
assistance. If your idea cannot be implemented locally and needs other
resources within Digital, use the form.
WHERE TO SEND YOUR IDEA
After you've completed the form, send it to IDEAS CENTRAL @OGO or
SONATA::IDEASCENTRAL and it will be forwarded to the appropriate organization
and logged into the Ideas Data Base. The better the details you provide, the
faster the process of review and implementation.
No matter where your completed Ideas Form is sent, you will receive an
acknowledgment of receipt. You will be kept informed about the status and
disposition of your idea. If for some reason, you are not kept up-to-date,
please contact IDEAS CENTRAL @OGO or have any questions, call Maxine Crowther
at DTN: 276-8226......Digital is looking forward to hearing your constructive
ideas or the results from them.
DELTA PROGRAM OFFICE
IDEAS FORM Rev 2.7
Name:
Location Code:
DTN (or Outside Number if no DTN is available):
Electronic Mail Address (if available):
1. WHAT TYPE OF IDEA ARE YOU SUBMITTING?
- PROPOSAL: An idea in which you want to participate in implementation.
- PILOT: A proposal you would like to lead implementation and pilot.
- SUGGESTION: A constructive idea which you want a function to consider.
- RESULT: Outcome of an idea you already implemented and want to share.
If a PROPOSAL, what role could you perform during implementation,
Participant or Consultant?
2. TITLE FOR YOUR IDEA:
3. DESCRIBE THE FOLLOWING ASPECTS OF YOUR IDEA:
A. Opportunity or issue your idea addresses.
B. Proposed remedy and support your idea needs in order to succeed.
C. Results you expect your idea to produce, or results your idea has
already produced. Be as specific and quantitative as possible.
4. IF DIGITAL MAY MAKE MONEY, SAVE MONEY, OR REDUCE THE TIME TO COMPLETE A
PROCESS, ESTIMATE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT DIGITAL TO SAVE IF YOUR IDEA
WAS FULLY IMPLEMENTED.
5. LENGTH OF TIME YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE TO GET YOUR IDEA IMPLEMENTED ONCE ALL
THE RIGHT RESOURCES ARE IN PLACE.
6. WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR IDEA SHARED IN A NOTES FILE?
VMSmail To information: MTS$::"LKG::DAVID GARROD"
VMSmail CC information: DELTA_IDEAS
|
| 2460.50 | | CDDREP::RPSTRY::TWANG::DICKSON | | Fri Apr 30 1993 14:13 | 3 |
| If SSB won't sell you something without a VP signature, then buy from
somebody else who will. Then you just need to have your finance
person approve it, which is one less hurdle.
|
| 2460.51 | VP approval needed regardless | THPPT::LAPINE | | Fri Apr 30 1993 16:05 | 15 |
| re: .50
Nope. All third party (PC) software purchases must be approved by a VP,
regardless of whether you purchase it from the SSB, through Purchasing,
from IEG, or buy it yourself and (try to) submit a voucher.
Our organization packages up large bundles of requests, sends them up the
approval chain as a unit, and then after (if) approvals are received, we
attach them to the various different bits of paperwork: SSB order forms for
things from them, EOFs for stuff from IEG, purchase reqs for items to be
bought from a vendor and miscellaneous procurement vouchers for those items
that the employees are willing to purchase on the company's behalf.
Figuring out how to deal with this bureaucracy is great job security.
|
| 2460.52 | | DYPSS1::COGHILL | Steve Coghill, Luke 14:28 | Fri Apr 30 1993 17:00 | 3 |
| I am now beginning to see the need for the drastic downsizing we've
gone through. Think of how hard it is for all these upper and middle
managers to micro-manage 100K people.
|
| 2460.53 | Ban is ON until JULY at least, VM over BP | CARAFE::GOLDSTEIN | Global Village Idiot | Thu May 20 1993 15:57 | 11 |
| Just in case anyone took BP's statement seriously, this morning I got a
copy of a Mullarkey-gram which appears to be intended for widespread
distribution. Among its many Smithisms,
o The hold on "for internal use" purchases of
break-the-seal software and software upgrades will
continue. Purchases which will directly impact
near-term revenue goals will require exception
approval.
I'm getting real, real tired.
|
| 2460.54 | No software at all, soon | CGOOA::DTHOMPSON | Don, of Don's ACT | Thu May 20 1993 16:05 | 10 |
| The funniest part of this - and, yes, it's funny...
We aren't allowed to buy 3rd Party
* AND *
They're killing off our own stuff!!!
[A comspiracy theorist might wonder who is paying these guys.]
|
| 2460.55 | Does the left hand know what the right hand is doing? | NOVA::SWONGER | Rdb Software Quality Engineering | Thu May 20 1993 18:37 | 7 |
| At the Third Software Process Symposium this morning at ZKO in
Nashua, Dennis Roberson was asked about people being blocked from
buying shrink-wrapped software (he called it "break the seal"). His
response was that purchases FOR DEVELOPMENT WORK are not (or at
least should not be) being blocked, as of a short time ago.
Roy
|
| 2460.56 | Business suicide | COUNT0::WELSH | Think it through | Mon May 24 1993 11:50 | 7 |
| re .54:
> [A comspiracy theorist might wonder who is paying these guys.]
A diminishing number of patient but exasperated customers.
/Tom
|
| 2460.57 | | ESGWST::HALEY | become a wasp and hornet | Wed May 26 1993 00:01 | 18 |
| I know this isn't my saga, but I actually got all 7 signatures necessary
to order a PowerPoint upgrade. It was signed off by everyone in mid-April.
It was supposed to ship on May 3rd.
Comes May 7th, I ask my secretary to call and find out when I could expect
it. They tell her it shipped. I leave for the trip I needed it for, come
back and still no software. Monday they tell her (only after she calls, far
be it from them actaully dealing with a customer in a proactive way) that
they did not order enough PowerPoint licenses and kits and I will be
shipped a copy in mid-July. Nicely over the fiscal year boundary. I did
buy a copy for my home machine and was able to use that, but i would like
to do my work during the day at work.
I used to blame Jack's stupid memo for the stupid actions. I need to
apologize to his memory, there are obviously a lot of people who think and
act like he did.
Matt
|