Conference 7.286::digital

         If that was a real policy, I know entire sites which would be on
    written warning.
    
                                       Greg

    
    I do not see that a policy is needed (nor does one exist. If it
    existed at one time, it was certainly before 1984). It is a matter
    of courtesy, not rules, that dictates when you routinely (notice
    I said routinely--exceptions do happen) return phone calls. I was
    taught that one returned calls in the same manner one expects others
    to return your calls--promptly. Even if you simply never heard of
    the person who left you the message. If I had a dime for every time
    I responded to a secretary with "No, I'm sorry, if Mr/Ms XYZ is
    not there, then simply mention that I returned his/her call. No,
    I do not wish to leave a more detailed message (because I often
    have absolutely NO IDEA who the person is, or why they called)."
    
    I do not want other people to hold me in disdain because I am sloppy
    (and VERY inconsiderate) of not returning their calls. And if there
    ever was a case where the old axiom "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU..." comes
    into play, this is certainly it.
    
    I feel sorta strongly about this. We are possibly the largest fully-
    networked private company in the world. But, from a business
    perspective,we must employ ALL of our networked resources. And 
    telephones are networked resources in the original and classic sense.
    
    We simply must communicate in the fastest, best manner to make good
    business (and technical, and administrative, and et al) decisions
    to maximize of business posture. Simply put: "There ain't no
    unimportant telephone calls."
    
    Mac McCuller
    

    Mac is absolutely right, returning calls is courtesy and no policy
    should be needed.
    
    I'm very concerned that anyone would think such a policy was NECESSARY
    - and sincerely believe that anyone who argues that they are too busy
    to do a job properly should be reminded that this is paid employment,
    not playtime in a personal feifdom.
    
    
    						- andy

    I also endorse Mac's position.  
    
    I've been at DEC since 1975, and a customer before that since 1963. 
    During that time I've never heard of a policy that required telephone
    calls to be returned within 24 hours, or any other period of time.
    
    I can see how a manager might impose such a policy in order to correct
    a problem in his domain, but the policy should die when the problem is
    corrected.
        John Sauter

    REF: <<< Note 1102.3 >>>
    
    >><<... returning calls is courtesy and no policy should be needed.  
    I'm very concerned that anyone would think such a policy was
    NECESSARY>>
    
    Digital seems to be rife with discourteous people, whose actions
    (failing to return phone calls) then flies in the face of the ethics
    being preached, "Doing what's right."
    
    Regarding policy, how much "business" is affected when CUSTOMERS do not
    get their telephone calls returned, or employees who are working
    customer issues.  There is nothing wrong with rules to govern the
    philosophy and actions of an organization (or laws to govern a nation)
    in order to ensure positive discipline and ethical actions as they
    affect the whole, be it an organization or a nation.
    

    There are plenty of unwritten practices/ courtesies/ habits/
    guidelines/etc that apply to life here at Digital that are informally
    referred to as "policies".  That much is just a semantic game.
    
    Digital is in the grip of bureaucrats who want to substitute formal
    written policies for good business judgment.
    
    They are aided by individualist/ minimalists who will only agree to "do
    the right thing" when they see a formal written policy or written
    instructions to do so from their supervisor.
    
    If one doesn't have a real job, one can always find at Digital a job
    that either looks over the shoulder of the people with real jobs and
    attempts to find "policy violations", or you can be a symbiotic
    supervisor of a minimalist and make sure that one hour of real work is
    always preceded by three hours of coordination.
                                                

    re .6  Sweeney
    
    Does your diatribe assume that people within Digital will return phone
    calls promptly because it makes good business judgment, or that it
    doesn't make good business judgment to return phone calls promptly?
    
    Whatever, my experience in the last 3+ years is that Digital has one of
    the worst "return phone calls promptly" records of any company I've
    worked for.  It makes it hard for me to do my job efficiently, and hard
    to provide rapid customer responses.
    
    
    re all you who agree with "Mac"
    
    I agree with Mac too, unfortunately that doesn't get phone calls
    returned.  The system is broke, and part of it is the bureaucrats who
    want to use information as a power base.  All of you who agree with
    Mac, do you return your phone calls promptly?  How about you Patrick?
    
    If you're getting too many phone calls, then some needed information
    isn't being distributed correctly.  If there were a policy or guide
    that said all phone calls have to be returned within 24 hours and you
    found you couldn't do your job because you had to return phone calls,
    then there is an information flow problem that needs to be fixed.  The
    fix today is to ignore the phone calls, not to solve the information
    flow problem.

    re: .7
    
    I guess I'm lucky.  I receive very few phone calls each day, so it is
    no problem for me to return them promptly.  That also applies to MAIL
    messages.
        John Sauter

[    
[    If one doesn't have a real job, one can always find at Digital a job
[    that either looks over the shoulder of the people with real jobs and
[    attempts to find "policy violations", or you can be a symbiotic
[    supervisor of a minimalist and make sure that one hour of real work is
[    always preceded by three hours of coordination.
    
    	This is the most accurate and concise summary of "the way things
    are" (as opposed to "the way things ought to be") in Digital these days
    that I've seen.   In one tidy little sentence, you've spoken countless
    volumes about the company and its middle management.
    
    Regarding the silliness about a policy to make us return our phone
    calls:   Now THAT would be a classic example of fixing symptoms rather
    than solving problems.  The PROBLEM isn't that someone doesn't return a
    phone call.  That's the SYMPTOM of a deeper problem, which might be
    described as a PROBLEM in simple business courtesy.   sheesh.
    
    	We need a lot less policies and a lot more good management.
    
    -DM-

Working on an IS hotline in the past, I made alot of outgoing phone calls and
less than 50% of the return calls I made to relay status information made it
through the first time.  We used to joke that as soon as someone called our
hotline they either left their office or else got on the phone with someone 
else. Then call us back for a status because they hadn't hear from us within
a matter of minutes.

So I employed a technique whereas I tried twice, no response the second time, 
I sent mail.  If I did connect I left a message with whoever answered the 
phone, usually a secretary for the group.  I'd ask for my call to be returned
I'd say 30% of these calls were returned.  Then a week or so later I'd hear 
back from the person saying they hadn't heard from me.  Well I kept a list of 
who I had called or sent mail to and I'd present this to them when they tried 
to nail me for not getting back.  That got results!


Returning calls is the least one can do especially in a technologically 
orientated company such as DEC.  We've got several avenues available with
which to communicate and I've found that most people don't bother to make
the effort to communicate back.


Bryan

re .9 HYEND::DMONTGOMERY 
    
>    Regarding the silliness about a policy to make us return our phone
>    calls:   Now THAT would be a classic example of fixing symptoms rather
>    than solving problems.  The PROBLEM isn't that someone doesn't return a
>    phone call.  That's the SYMPTOM of a deeper problem, which might be
>    described as a PROBLEM in simple business courtesy.   sheesh.
    
>    	We need a lot less policies and a lot more good management.
    
    Sure we do, that's apple pie & motherhood.  Will it happen?  Probably
    not.  So, since another policy is "silliness," what do you suggest be
    done to fix the PROBLEM?

    Does this mean I should be able to phone up K.O. to ask why I haven't
    gotten a pay raise lately?  And that he should be required to return
    my call promptly?
    
    The fact of the matter is there are "jerk calls".  I'll get messages to
    call so-and-so with no idea of why they called me in the first place.
    (And, of course, returning the call results in a secretary intercept).
    I'll get calls from people who don't want to read the documentation,
    and feel they have the right to disrupt others to save them some reading.
    Or people who are absolutely sure I know something they need, even if
    I haven't the foggiest idea what they are referring to.  I'll get calls 
    from specialists who need a simple answer that isn't publicly available,
    so they can win a $10M sale.  (Right, not all calls are jerk calls).
    
    Well, there is a better way.  Electronic mail wherever possible. 
    When somebody is forced to sit down and compose a coherent message,
    suddenly it becomes a lot easier to crack open a manual and find the
    answer directly.  Or at least a written message is more likely to be
    direct and to the point, making it easier to supply a similarly direct
    and to the point answer.  Further, written messages are less of an
    imposition on the receiver and therefore less likely to receive a
    shot-from-the-hip response.
    
    Of course there are times when phone calls provide better bandwidth
    and problem isolation.  Such times are the exception, not the rule.
    If it were the other way around we wouldn't have notesfiles, we'd have
    a massive number of teleconferences.
    
    Sure, there's plenty of jerk mail, too.  But it's far easier to deal
    with unwanted mail than unwanted callers.  If anything, I say DEC 
    employees should be made more literate in the use of computer networks
    we sell instead of the telephone networks we don't sell.  
    Remember, you aren't dealing with AT&T...
    
      John

     re .9

>[   If one doesn't have a real job, one can always find at Digital a job
>[   that either looks over the shoulder of the people with real jobs and
>[   attempts to find "policy violations", or you can be a symbiotic
>[   supervisor of a minimalist and make sure that one hour of real work is
>[   always preceded by three hours of coordination.
>    
>    This is the most accurate and concise summary of "the way things
>    are" (as opposed to "the way things ought to be") in Digital these days
>    that I've seen.   In one tidy little sentence, you've spoken countless
>    volumes about the company and its middle management.
    
     Don beat me to the punch. In my years at DEC, all I've ever seen
     management do here to fix "problems" is to start another organization,
     institute another metric, add more "staff" managers. (Here in our
     geography we have an entire history of people who make six figure
     salaries whose responsibilities are fulfilled by secretarial staff.)

     It is precisely those managers who don't do anything, that is, the
     *experts at risk avoidance*, who routinely get to move up the ladder,
     since they never offend anyone, never make mistakes, and by virtue of
     doing nothing have plenty of time to schmooze. Hence our propensity for
     task forces, committees, etc.

     This is not to say that competent managers also don't progress at DEC.
     It's just that they *aren't* the ones that the skids are greased for.

     Risk avoidance also promulgates committee decisions. For example, when
     you are ready to be a manger at DEC you go before a review board. If
     they "pass" you, then your boss (who recommended you for a management
     job) is absolved if you screw up, since the decision to approve you for
     management was communal. After all, he wasn't the only one who didn't
     realize you weren't ready yet.

     Where are the *individual* decision makers at Digital? If somone has
     an idea which fails, then try another. If that fails, try again. Even
     if you try something 5 times to get it right, you'll get whatever it is
     done faster and better than putting 5 people with 5 approaches on a
     committee and having them decide, and, if it fails, not be held
     responsible because they made the best "communal" decision they could.

     We're trying to breed thoroughbreds, but we're producing 3-humped
     camels and saying, "Gee, it's the best we could come up with."

>    We need a lot less policies and a lot more good management.

     It's a sad commentary that espcially here, out in the field, the most
     effective people are those who build their own support network so they
     don't need management help to get their job done.

     I'm running on... perhaps I should cross-post in SOAPBOX ;-)


     /Petes

re .12 VMSDEV::HALLYB 
    
>    Does this mean I should be able to phone up K.O. to ask why I haven't
>    gotten a pay raise lately?  And that he should be required to return
>    my call promptly?
    
    Oh gee, let's make up some silly example about calling K.O. to show
    that not everyone needs to return phone calls.  If K.O. did have an
    open door and got such a silly call, you'd deserve to get what's
    coming.
    
>    The fact of the matter is there are "jerk calls".  I'll get messages to
>    call so-and-so with no idea of why they called me in the first place.
>    (And, of course, returning the call results in a secretary intercept).
>    I'll get calls from people who don't want to read the documentation,
>    and feel they have the right to disrupt others to save them some reading.
>    Or people who are absolutely sure I know something they need, even if
>    I haven't the foggiest idea what they are referring to.  I'll get calls 
>    from specialists who need a simple answer that isn't publicly available,
>    so they can win a $10M sale.  (Right, not all calls are jerk calls).
    
    What might be a jerk call to you could be important to someone else. 
    So, let's label calls you don't like as jerk calls.  I get calls for
    publically available information, but not everyone knows where to look
    for it or how to interpret what they find if they do find it.
    
>    Well, there is a better way.  Electronic mail wherever possible. 
>    When somebody is forced to sit down and compose a coherent message,
>    suddenly it becomes a lot easier to crack open a manual and find the
>    answer directly.  Or at least a written message is more likely to be
>    direct and to the point, making it easier to supply a similarly direct
>    and to the point answer.  Further, written messages are less of an
>    imposition on the receiver and therefore less likely to receive a
>    shot-from-the-hip response.
    
    Mail works sometimes.  Generally, I find those that don't return phone
    calls, don't return mail either.  And many times, what would've been a
    15 minute phone call turns into a 2 hour mail Q & A spread over x days.
    
>    Of course there are times when phone calls provide better bandwidth
>    and problem isolation.  Such times are the exception, not the rule.
>    If it were the other way around we wouldn't have notesfiles, we'd have
>    a massive number of teleconferences.
    
    Obviously our experiences are different.
    
>    Sure, there's plenty of jerk mail, too.  But it's far easier to deal
>    with unwanted mail than unwanted callers.  If anything, I say DEC 
>    employees should be made more literate in the use of computer networks
>    we sell instead of the telephone networks we don't sell.  
>    Remember, you aren't dealing with AT&T...
    
    Funny you should say that.  Yep, "del" sure works better than telling
    someone they're a jerk for asking that question.  Oh boy, onward to
    better communication.

    re: .7
    
    David, we'll let the readers of the replies to this note judge who is
    writing "diatribes" and leave it at that.
    
    Of course, it makes sense to return business calls promptly. I try to
    return calls to me promptly. On the other hand, I don't place my
    ability to do my job efficiently at risk when phone calls _from_me_
    don't get returned.
    
    In the MARKETING conference for years, I've been talking about
    "information gatekeepers".  The opening of the phase review process,
    the proprietary information disclosure process, frequent training
    sessions, NOTES, all go a long way towards making things better than
    they were three years ago.
    
    Some people are out of town, some people are in all day meetings.
    I answer message slips and voicemail with electronic mail to people
    just to let them know I got the message.  But 24 hours is unrealistic,
    unless telephone support for unsolicited calls is number 1 on your job
    plan, it's not on mine.
    
    The point about "policy" is that is never is a substitute for good
    business judgment.  A person who feels that an employee has been
    unreasonably slow in returning phone calls should be bringing that
    opinion to the person's manager.  This should be done without thinking
    that this is "getting someone in trouble".  If it's hurting Digital,
    do something about it, person to person.  That's the Digital way.
    A bigger rulebook isn't the answer here.

     re .12 & .14
    
    Same planet, different worlds?  Engineering tends to live by mail,
    and getting an engineer by phone is difficult.  So, I (as an engineer)
    go to mail as the FIRST resort and act as if the phone doesn't exist 
    unless calling someone I know.  Most of the world is (still) wery
    different, and is likely to be so for quite some time.
    
    Even "jerks" can be educational sometimes, and I can often steer them
    on to who/what they need.  I try to do so when possible - since I'm 
    sometimes the "jerk" looking for a lead to some piece of information
    that either isn't in any of the notes files or documentation I have
    available or isn't in a form I can readily recognize.  (Engineers
    get stumped once in a while.)  Good thing I know a few people after
    almost 16 years - sure as HELL couldn't find the stuff I need in any
    regular company communication - don't know how the folks in the field
    do it (but I get the impression that a lot of the time they can't).
    
    /Dave

    I receive an average of 80-100 mail messages per day and 5-10 phone
    calls (many of which are from other vendors or consortia and must be
    answered to keep alliances and partnerships healthy). I directly manage
    15 engineers and spend 70% of my time in productive meetings.
    
    EXCUSE ME if I don't get around to answering your mail or phone call
    promptly!

    A few months ago, my manager sent us a copy of the results from a focus
    group meeting of customers and non customers.  High up on the list of
    things which they didn't like about dealing with Digital was the non
    return of phone calls.
    
    Using mail for contacting folks within the company is fine (assuming
    everyone has bothered to update their entry in ELF V2) but some of our
    customers aren't connected to the net world or don't know how to
    contact the person they need by mail.  The phone network still has use
    even in today's computer networked world.
    

    
    So what is the underlying problem?  I submit it is apathy.  If success
    in reality is tied only to "making your boss successful" then there is
    no linkage and interdependence for working in harmony with all other
    employees and customers, there is no motivation to think of changes to
    build a more successful Digital totally, and there is no reason to pay
    other than lip service to all that is preached.
    
    Possible solutions?  For all employees, equal profit sharing with no
    cap, with complete responsibility and authority where every employee is
    self-managed working in virtual teams, able to affect change, all
    having an equal say.
    
    Professional manager positions (like "professional politicians") would
    be eliminated.  It is absurd to think that people can be taught to be
    managers of people and we all know that the motivation of most
    employees for moving upward into management is NOT to lead and nurture
    others to higher levels of success and achievement but rather to build
    one's OWN career rewards of power, money, prestige and perks.
    
    As I read recently somewhere, the essence of business -- taking
    sensible risks, creating valuable products and services, motivating
    people and satisfying customers -- cannot be taught from books,
    seminars and classroom dialogue.  Real leadership is not a profession;
    it is a calling and it comes from within.  Digital should change the
    criteria of how those who lead us should be chosen -- eliminating to
    begin with promotion into management because of connections in the good
    ol' boy system, because of longevitiy, because of just technical
    knowledge, because of degrees and advanced degrees, and/or because
    someone was a "leader" in another company.  None of these ensure that
    those who could lead as a "calling" are the ones being promoted to lead
    the rest of us to BUILDING a greater Digital than what is, WITH ALL
    SHARING IN THE REWARDS OF THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT, and not just the manager
    who looks good.
    
    A bureaucracy of mindless "meism" results in stifling initiative,
    change and commitment of all to one another in ensuring our mutual
    success as a single organization.
    
    I do NOT advocate more rules, policies and regulations but rather a
    fundamental change in the foundation of Digital that determines HOW the
    organization works, with the desired result being almost literally no
    policies and regulations because they would not be necessary if every
    employee were truly self-managed, and totally committed, via the
    interdependence of reward and linkage to all parts of the team with
    every member having a say in affecting change, and true responsibility
    with authority to affect change.
    
    Observe how a handful of public housing projects are flourishing as
    model communities, with everyone (tenants) working TOGETHER, when the
    bureaucratic management was eliminated, and the residents had the
    ability to SELF-MANAGE, with the upcoming possibility of being able to
    own their own apartments.
    
    I submit, with a similar approach of self-management and a sense of
    ownership of reward, Digital could become the largest, most profitable
    corporaton in the world.
    
    But now?  Ask fifty employees at random what the Digital dream is that
    they are participating in building and what their motivation and reward
    is for working in cooperation, harmony and commitment with all other
    employees -- the current "system" is in fact a dis-incentive.  It
    should be changed.
    

    re .20

    We've discussed profit sharing and other "motivators" before. The issue
    is: either you do the right thing for you and for Digital -- or you
    don't. Either you don't compromise your professionalism -- or you do.

    As I said about "communal" decision making, nothing gets done if no one
    is clearly in charge. Everyone having input is fundamental. Everyone
    having an equal say is absurd.

    As for management "not being learned," the article you quote must have
    been written by someone who never worked for world-class managers. I
    have, unfortunately not here, and you can learn a tremendous amount:
    about business dealings, finance, handling people, etc. An excellent
    manager is a treasure-trove to be held on to dearly. Managing is like
    any other ability. If you're musical, with a good teacher and practice,
    you can be a superb musician. Even if you're not musical, with a good
    teacher and practice you can still be competent. Talent or no talent,
    without a good teacher or without practice, you'll get nowhere.

    Around here, we look at someone and say, "Hey, you're musical," and stick
    them on stage with no preparation or guidance.

    Until the head starts paying attention to the body, not *measurements* of
    the body, the quality of management will not improve, and the commitment
    to do the right thing for Digital will not deepen.

    /Peters

I was a DEC customer for about 14 years and ran the VAX MIS group for a
large Aerospace company.  I'd purchase anywhere from $250,00 to $2 million
worth of equipment per year plus all the associated hardware and software
maintenance contracts.  By far, my worst complaint with DEC was the failure
to return phone calls (my sales rep was always in sales meetings and I was
his/her only account!,etc.,etc. ) I did finally fix the problem by giving
Sales and Hardware support an average of "2" out of 10 (software support
was great!) on the Customer Satisfaction Surveys.  I got all sorts of calls
after that!  To those of you that think that returning a Customers call
within 24 hours is unreasonable due to ....  Please rethink or leave DEC
and become a customer.  If I can't even talk to you the chances of buying
goods or services from you now or in the future are quite slim. 

    REF:  <<< Note 1102.21 by SVBEV::VECRUMBA "Do the right thing!" >>>
          -< Management not being learned is poppycock! (euphemism) >-
    
    We all want real leadership.  You say leadership can be taught.  How do
    you then reconcile the fact that Digital managers DO IN FACT receive
    tons of training every year (books, seminars, courses, meetings,
    one-on-one, tapes, woods meetings, university courses, advanced degree
    programs) yet all this effort and cost does not translate into a highly
    motivated workforce acting professional and doing what's right ALL THE
    TIME, building something greater, TOGETHER, than what is?
    
    Traditional training programs do not seem to be effective, evidenced
    not only of what is happening in pockets throughout Digital, but in
    fact throughout many American companies!
    
    What are your concrete suggestions for change that WILL WORK, totally
    and universally throughout Digital, affecting change in all employees,
    especially all those who would manage and lead?
    
    

	RE: .23 People what want to learn how to be good managers can and
	will and do benifit from training. People who think they already
	know it all don't. DEC, as with other companies, has it's share of
	managers who think they know it all already. Some of them are wrong.

	Digital also seems to have more than it's share of managers who don't
	want to be managers. There is no helping them. As long as the company
	assumes that the talents that make someone a good salesperson make
	then a good sales manager or a good programmer a good manager of
	programmers we'll have this problem. I think we should make people
	managers based on the skills that a manager requires rather than
	them having the skills the people they manage need but I seem to
	be in a minority. That's two suggestions: Stop making managers out
	of people who don't want to be managers and look for managerial
	skills. (Someone who is 3 at programming may be better then a 1 when
	it comes to managing people but right now the 1 is going to get the
	Superv. S/W Engineer first.)

	RE: Basic topic. There is no valid excuse for a customer not to
	get a call back in 24 hours. Even if their saleperson is on vacation
	a reasonable sales manager will make sure that someone gets back to
	them. (This is of course part of my definition of a reasonable sales
	manager.) The same is perhaps more true of a software/hardware support
	function. If we want the business we must be responsive. Anyone who
	is not responsive to their customers is telling me they don't want
	the business. I did some work on my house (actually it's still going
	on) and any sub-contractor who didn't return my initial call didn't
	get a second one. They obviously didn't want my business.

			Alfred

    re .23

    Remember what I said, a good teacher and practice. For management, a good
    teacher is (and only is) a good manager whom you work for. I've been a
    Digital manager and have attended some of those Digital courses. I
    invariably knew what was being covered already -- because I had already
    managed in the real world and had worked for good managers. (But I'm
    far from "knowing everything.")

    Back to my analogy: you can read all the books on music theory that you
    want, but without a mentor who you can watch in action, who you can learn
    from, who can teach you by example, you get zero benefit.

    Management being teachable and (our) management courses not effecting
    change are not irreconcilable. They are merely independent statements of
    fact.

    Suggestions for real change? Eliminate communal decisions. Enforce
    individual accountability. For example, eliminate the MDC. Either your
    manager thinks you're ready to manage or you aren't. If they're wrong, it
    reflects in their next review as well as yours.

    Every communal decision has, somewhere above it, a single manager. That
    manager is responsible and accountable for every communal decision made
    below them. If five people get in a room and make a bad decision, then
    they and the entire chain up to that single person are accountable.
    And NO decision reflects worse on someone than the wrong decision.
    No decisions = no management paycheck.

    re .24 (basic topic)

    We just had our patio done. Same here on phone calls. No returned phone
    call, no business. Now that I think about it, the (winning) contractor's
    answering machine announcement included, "Please don't hang up. Your call
    is important to me and we will get back to you as soon as possible." They
    did, too.

    
    Ref: Discussion on incompetent managers -- let us move to Note 1108.
    
    Ref: Getting people to answer telephone calls.
    
    Another policy and procedure will not change behavior -- that
    motivation must come from within each individual.  The best this
    corporation can do is address the culture and leadership that in turn
    addresses that motivation within each of us.
    

    I know this topic kinda died-out in May, but, to re-open with one
    additional thought that I haven't seen suggested here:
    
    I tend to think that good secretarial support would help with the
    problem of calls not being returned.  I'm not saying it'll solve it,
    but it sure could help.  I've been a secretary with this company for
    about ten years now and I've seen the difference good support can lend
    to an organization.  If my boss is out of town (which he often is), *I*
    return all of his phone calls.  If a customer needs him, I'll track him
    down.  If I can answer the question or refer it to someone who can,
    I'll do that.  If nothing else, the person on the other end does
    receive a call and does know that s/he is being heard.
    
    Unfortunately, when everyone's worried about headcount constraints, we
    tend to hire the WC4 people instead of secretaries, without fully
    understanding (IMHO) how much value-added the secretary can contribute. 
    When we have 40- or 50-to-one secretary/WC4 ratios, there's no way one
    can expect the secretaries to perform adequately.  However, change that
    to a 10-to-1 or less, secretaries can perform virtual miracles with the
    productivity and image of their departments.  
    
    The ol' penny wise, pound foolish problem.  Is it smart to save money
    by not hiring a secretary, or is it smarter to take the administrative
    burden off of the exempts so they can do what they're paid for?
    
    

    I wholeheartedly agree with .-1.  While away on a business trip last
    week, I asked our group's secretary to return phone calls for me.  She
    did and it made a wonderful difference.  However, I'm out of the office
    a good deal of the time (meetings, trips, meetings at other sites) and
    she supports too many people supervisors and managers to do this on a
    regular basis.
    
    In general I believe Engineering runs way too light on admin support
    (certainly that appears to be the case with ZKO).
    
    -Ken

    re: .26
    
    On the one hand, because we are a "technology company", it seems that
    we get mired in lots of tools to help us be more responsive.  Everthing
    from customer e-mail "phone message" applications to voice-mail to $49
    answering machines on peoples' desks.  But the sad fact is that all the
    tools in the world don't help if the people don't have the discipline
    to use them.
    
    Having a secretary available who does understand the importance and has
    the discipline to properly follow things up is a godsend to any group.
    But it doesn't fix the problem, it just sort of covers it up.
    
    I do a fair amount of calling people up, for evaluation information,
    for support, and even just for things like catalog shopping.  And I
    completely understand all the market surveys that show call-backs as
    being a major factor in customer satisfaction.  Because if I don't
    get a response from someone, I don't do business with them.  If I'm
    forced by necessity to use them, I always spend lots of time and
    enegy looking for an alternative, and I usually find one eventually.
    Why should we expect our customers to be any different.
    
    All of this is old hat, but anytime I get a chance, I feel it is
    necessary to sound off about this ...
    
    Geoff
    

  I agree the customer should get his calls answered first. So 
guess where that puts us internal people who have needs as well,
last. I have been searching for a job for 6 months within DEC.
Right now I have jobs I have interviewed for that I have been
told I would hear in 3 weeks (it's been 10, I've left 4 messages,
no news.), 2 days (it's been 9 days so far), and 2 weeks (it's
been 5 weeks, left messages, no news). And trying to get hold
of hiring managers to find out the status of a job that you haven't
yet interviewed for is virtually impossible. 

  I agree these people are very busy. So if it's going to be 8
weeks, TELL ME THAT! If you say 3 weeks, call or send mail after
4 or so saying no decision has been made, or whatever that truth 
is. Thank goodness they didn't put a time limit on how long it
should take me to find a job. If they said less than 6 months
practical experience would tell me to take the buyout and go.

Paul W.

    I am also going thru the job hunting process and and finding it 
frustrating that I cannot get a reasonable reply to my mailings, phone 
calls,etc. As a hiring manager myself, I recall that it was not always a 
top priority item when I had candidates waiting for answers, now I have 
resolved to do a whole lot better job or responding to people in the 
future, if now with answers, at least with status updates! It isn't hard to 
use a pre written script and personalize it to at least let people know you 
remember them and have done something with the resume, and they are still 
being considered for a position. 

    A friend outside of DEC is also out of work currently and going thru 
the exact same thing, he doesn't hear back from recruiters or hiring 
managers at other companies. It is an area we could all use a lot of 
improvement.

    Vic H