Conference 7.286::digital

   Re:        <<< Note 1857.1 by TNPUBS::FORTEN "Love, Thy will be done..." >>>


>    GSO has already been bought by another company.  From what I
>    understand, the ENTIRE plant was sold.  All DEC employees that worked
>    for GSO will now work for this new company at the start of the new
>    fiscal year.
    
>    What is the big hullaboo about?  

That you heard about it before people who work in GSO.
    
>    This is common knowledge, at least to everyone I've been speaking with.

See above.

Note:

      I don't think anyone has committed that "All DEC employees that worked
      for GSO will now work for this new company at the start of the new
      fiscal year."  Neither DEC nor the new owner are likely to
      make this commitment.  Many of the DEC employees may not
      be interested either.  The plant can be sold, but not the
      employees!
      
Dick

    folks, here in GSO there has been no announcement, lots of rumors but
    zip from upper management about anything. we have rumor of the hour
    here and one is about folks working for the new company but the
    logistics around it are not shared nor anything else for that matter.
    I am expecting to read in VNS or Notes or hear it on the 6 o'clock
    news but until something formal is provided, everything else is
    speculation to us here.
    
    
    
    

       Damn, this note sure has been hard to get started.  I have a few
    questions.  What happened the reply that Dick was replying to?  I think
    it would have been .1
    
        And Dick, just to let you know, I've been having trouble connecting
    to your node.  I'll return your message asap.
    
       To re-iterate what Dick said about selling the facility but not the
    employees, he's dead right on that.  I would MUCH prefer to be offered a
    severance package to leave.
    
                                                             Scott

I was wondering if anyone knew how Cupertino and other plants were handled 
when they were shut-down, sold, etc.?

Since management appears reluctant to volunteer what is uppermost on the minds 
of those to whom it matters most (strange paradox here) I suppose it would be 
interesting to list the rumors that result.

Here are a few for starters:

Rumor #1: GSO is modelling after YYYYY, who managed $130M last year with 11 
people in one indirect labor department.  GSO is projected to do $35M next year.
On that basis the same department at GSO with, say, 17 people would be reduced 
to 3.

Look to see things "happen" in early June (immediately after the early 
retirement package is over), with XXX taking over in September.  This will 
most likely be the last package offered, since GSO will belong to XXX soon 
thereafter.  GSO population will probably go as low as 300.  

Many of said IL folk have stated they want to make a move. To them it is 
not a question of who wants to stay but of who is willing to stay. 
Following this feeling of despair the following imginative scenario is 
envisioned: XXX takes over in September and runs pretty much business as usual 
for 6 months, and then decides they don't like the leftover line-up.  Lay-off's,
with no package. Not many are willing to take that chance. 

Further, XXX is "concerned" about some key people leaving GSO through SERP 
or other non_DEC jobs.

Rumor #2: When XXX does take-over at the end of the 4th quarter they will 
shut the facility down for two months to move themselves in. DEC employees 
will be given -
	a.	9 weeks pay.
	b.	13 weeks pay.
	c.	40 weeks pay (ha, ha).
	d.	Since Puerto Rico got 80 weeks pay (deep belly laugh) . . .
- and must *apply* to work for XXX. They will be notified before the end of 
June whether they will be hired or not. As an aside on this rumor: XXX pays 
less than DEC. XXX will reopen the facility in Sept.

Rumor #3: With similar pay and benefits XXX will take-over at the end of 
the 4th quarter or sometime in Sept. DEC folk will be offered a one year 
"contract" within which they may decide to stay with XXX or leave with a 
package from DEC. If they stay with XXX there will be no TFSO - they simply 
swap employers. No shut-down, business as usual. Personally, I think this 
is the "fairest of them all." But, alas, tis only a dream.

Plenty more rumors out there but these are the only ones I've come across 
worth remembering.

    What part of the world are you at.?? I`m in cupertino and have not
    heard any good rumors..
    I think I like your rumors so far...
    

Re: Note 1857.6 by GSMOKE::GCHARBONNEAU

>   What part of the world are you at.?? I`m in cupertino and have not
>   heard any good rumors..
    
    GSO is Greenville, South Carolina. We make PWB's (printed wiring
    boards) sometimes called PCB's (printed circuit boards). 
    
    Sorry to hear that a sale did not go through for you Gus. Here we were
    fortunate enough to be approached by an interested third party before DEC 
    ever put us up on the auction block.
    
    What about Phoenix's Union Hills Plant? How did Honeywell and DEC
    manage the transfer of ownership there?
    
    John

    here's another one to add fuel...XXX has supposedly hired a manager for
    it's S.C. operations (non-DECie).

    I take that as a hint of encouragement.  8^)
    
    Jerry ...

    Seems to me that the more "information" that is passed around the better
    prepared we are to plan. Management appears to have the luxury of
    having the information long before the rest of us in the trenches do.
    Last I heard a number of them have either been accepted or transfered
    to positions up north and will be leaving in May.  
    
    One of GSO's production people heard that XXX was interviewing here in
    Greenville for a position in Greensboro, N.C. Curious, he applied. He found
    that the production job involved some weeks of training and started at 
    $8.00 hr. That's better than DEC does down here; of course, Greensboro's 
    economy may differ slightly. 
    
    Logically (if that matters), people operate on budgets. To pay 
    substantially less (say 10% or more) than what the current management
    deems appropriate woud not aid relationships with the new employer.
    Motivation would certainly suffer. Naturally, the job market is tight
    so XXX may feel they can handle the potential fall-out. At GSO, however, I
    feel that would be high. 
    
    I think he said XXX gives employees 12 vacation days plus the usual
    holidays (about 2 weeks altogether). When he asked the interviewer from
    XXX if they planned to acquire GSO he simply said, "It's in the works."
    
    Environmental specialists were in the plant yesterday and today. I
    heard that prior to the closing of an acquisition this is one of the
    last checks a prospective buyer performs. Records being cleared out and
    stacked in boxes near shipping are another tell-tale sign.
    
    John 
                             

>    What about Phoenix's Union Hills Plant? How did Honeywell and DEC
>    manage the transfer of ownership there?
    
    Honeywell started off by leasing x sq. ft. and gradually moved in.
    I don't think its completely a done deal yet since they are still
    performing environmental testing (EPA) on the PNO grounds.
    
    There are less than a dozen DECcies left in PNO now.  Honeywell is
    still moving in people.
    
    Mike

    Is honeywell hiring at this time.??
    

    
    
    
    
    Re: Note 1857.12 by GSMOKE::GCHARBONNEAU
    
>                              -< Need a job.! >-
>
>   Is honeywell hiring at this time.?
    
I was wondering the same thing.
    
Heard another version. This one says that GSO DEC employees will get nine 
weeks severence pay and be reimbursed for lost vacation then "laid off" to 
get them off DEC's books. Then XXX will hire those whom they need with an 
emphasis on production and technical skills. One source said "pencil- 
pushers" may not fare well in the hiring process.

Once with XXX you start from scratch. No seniority, no nothing.

Saw their listing in our Greenville local phone directory:

XXX Incorporated
Eisenhower Blvd.
Harrisburg, PA
717 564-0100

Walter F. Raab CEO; a Fortune 500 company.
    
    Wonder if I should send them a resume now? Early birds may get some
    worms!!

    *Very* similar to what I heard too.  I don't think we'll see a
    reduction in headcount right off the bat though.  I'd wager that it'll
    take XXX at least 3 months to figure out what everyone does, and
    another 3 months to decide if they really need those skills.   8^)  I
    think we're safe through Christmas.
    
    Jerry (who'll take part of his 9 weeks pay and buy a nice winter coat,
    suitable for standing in the employment line during January 93 ...) 

    What exactly is this "XXX" corporation or is it "XXXX" as it says
    in the title of this notes string. I've never heard of it. Or this
    a pseudonym the company is using? Why are they using a pseudonym?
    
    Dave

    RE: "XXX" vs. "XXXX"
    
    ... well, it's actually "XXX/XXXX", but we can't discuss it. 
    Seriously.  Not only do we not know anything, but what little we *do*
    know, we're not allowed to discuss ... that's why we're playing this
    game - hopefully someone "in the know" will send one of us RAVEN1::
    folks something off_line (and off the record of course ...).
    
    Anyone remember "Hogan's Heroes" ?   If so, do you remember Shultz's
    favorite line ?  Unfortunately, that's the line we hear the most these
    days ... 
    
    
    Jerry

    TOM PETERS...Let the people in on the more info...
    Jerry,if you was out here you wouldn`t need a coat...
    O`Come on tell us...please
    
    HaHaHaHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
    

    Thanks, I needed that.   8^)
    
    I just hope the folks in charge do everything that XXX/XXXX wants, so
    the sale will go through.  It'd be nice working for a stable company
    for a change ...
    
    Jerry

    Jerry,I think you have a point about working for stable company..Tomorrow
    is my last day with DEC..Hope to find a good job now..Don`t take this
    the wrong way as for my 11 years with DEC was great..Retiring............
    
    They are offering a good deal here..
    

    Speaking of offering deals, I've been wondering of late what will
    happen if enough GSO people feel like they're getting the proverbial
    shaft from DEC when/if XXXX takes over?  I mean, in light of the courts
    finding _FOR_ the IBM employess who sued because of not being offered as
    nice a severance package as others; IMHO, GSO has always been treated
    as sort of a "second class citizen" in the DEC family and I wouldn't be
    suprised to see legal problems over this whole thing.
    
    Scott

<    Speaking of offering deals, I've been wondering of late what will
<    happen if enough GSO people feel like they're getting the proverbial
<    shaft from DEC when/if XXXX takes over?  

Well, ya gotta take into account the overall feeling at GSO right now too.  
There are *so* many people stressed out over worrying about this, that 
*any* relief will probably be acceptable.  I'd venture to say that 75% of 
the GSO population would take a TFSO (similar to the last one offered) if 
it were offered to them.  And, if XXXX decides to keep everyone (at least 
for now) and DEC gives all GSO employees a "token of it's appreciation", 
sure folks will b*tch, but in all honesty it's more than most financially 
troubled companies offer.

<    I mean, in light of the courts
<    finding _FOR_ the IBM employees who sued because of not being offered as
<    nice a severance package as others; 

I'd also wager that DEC's legal department is working some long days in an 
attempt to cover Ken's backside.  Don't worry, DEC probably learned a LOT 
from IBM on those grounds.

<    IMHO, GSO has always been treated
<    as sort of a "second class citizen" in the DEC family and I wouldn't be
<    surprised to see legal problems over this whole thing.
    
You're right, but I think it's a GSO thing, not a DEC thing.  I mean, you 
bring in a company like DEC that takes good care of their folks and you'll 
quickly spoil folks that are used to Textile mills.  The mentality turns to 
"oh DEC is the greatest thing", and then management *can* begin to take 
advantage of that loyalty.  Little empires develop, and next thing you know 
GSO doesn't resemble DEC, but more like a high_tech cotton mill with lots 
of oak doors and carpeting ...

I recently took pre-employment classes for a manufacturing position with 
another company.  One of the instructor's told me that "DEC employees are 
spoiled, we have to *earn* a living out here".  He speaks the gospel folks.

What's interesting is to look in the print queues - lotsa resumes being 
printed these days .... 8^)

Jerry

    -1: Agree 100% Jerry! 
    
     GSO is not a typical representation of what happens at DEC, although
     it *may* be a typical representation of a *remote* DEC facility, I
     say *may* since this has been my only exposure to a remote site after
     working in the Maynard area for many years. It certainlly will be 
     a "back to life, back to reality" experience for many (myself
     included) once they leave the employment ranks of DEC.
    
     The waiting is the hardest part these days!

Latest update on rumors.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9 weeks, plus 2 weeks for every year of service, plus accrued vacation, 
plus 1 year guaranteed employment.
    
(pinch me! pinch me! I must be dreaming!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
Also, a corporate fiscal officer heard rumor that had GSO in XXX's hand by 
July 1st. Certain management transferred north, all else laid-off by DEC. 
XXX hires who they choose, not necessarily everyone. No details on anything 
else.
    
(hmmmm)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet another rumor/info.

Other things are presently going on that cannot be discussed but are 
positive. No July 4th shutdown, no people will change, no meetings 
cancelled, etc. What plans we now have will be kept (e.g. production, 
management, etc.) all that will change, at first, will be the signs on the 
doors. No such thing as seniority with the new company. Two full shifts 
with a light third. XXX runs *very* efficiently, not a sweat shop but 
people work. 
    
    The XXX facility in Long Island (@375 people) was recently toured by a
    member of GSO. Management of the facility were *very* impressed with GSO
    when they visited us. XXX wants our technological edge and production
    know-how. Average operator on GSO floor has more responsibility and
    technical finesse than XXX's board shop.
    
    For what it's worth.

        I agree with most of what you said Jerry (especially the little empires
    thing)!
    
    Scott

    Re: Note 1857.21 by RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE
    
    Hey Jerry,
    
>bring in a company like DEC that takes good care of their folks and you'll 
>quickly spoil folks that are used to Textile mills.  The mentality turns to 
>"oh DEC is the greatest thing", and then management *can* begin to take 
>advantage of that loyalty.  Little empires develop, and next thing you know 
>GSO doesn't resemble DEC, but more like a high_tech cotton mill with lots 
>of oak doors and carpeting ...
    
    Shoowee . . . probably true prior to everybody getting TFSO'd in recent
    years but not now. This department used to run with 4. Now it runs with
    2. Take in vacation days, sick days, meetings, classes, and all else
    and the department runs with *1*. Believe me, AMO3 is burning it at
    both ends on 2nd - that's part of the reason for shift balancing. 
                                                      
>I recently took pre-employment classes for a manufacturing position with 
>another company.  One of the instructor's told me that "DEC employees are 
>spoiled, we have to *earn* a living out here".  He speaks the gospel folks.
    
    Huh! Take your average textile mill "Joe" and stick him in here and
    scrap will be rolling out the door in no time. "Spoil" is not what I
    would call running 900+ panels through here a day with *2* people. Let
    a mill Joe pick up 5 gal. of 98% sulfuric and ask him if he feels
    coddled!
    
    Aw, Jerry, sorry. Got a little excited there. Guess I'll go back to my
    12' x 70' trailer and forget about the leaking roof and try to dream of
    what life may be like with XXX . . .
    
    :)                                  

RE: Note 1857.25 by RAVEN1::LEABEATER                                    

<    Huh! Take your average textile mill "Joe" and stick him in here and
<    scrap will be rolling out the door in no time. "Spoil" is not what I
<    would call running 900+ panels through here a day with *2* people. Let
<    a mill Joe pick up 5 gal. of 98% sulfuric and ask him if he feels
<    coddled!

Hey, don't think manufacturing is the only group having to choke up on the 
bat a little bit - IR has been cut in half, and is putting out more work 
than ever ... no, it's no picnic anymore.  But think about it, if it were 
*you're* company, wouldn't you want to get the most you could out of your 
employees ?  

RE: Joe ...
A lot of GSO employees *were* those Joes when they walked in the door.  
Whether they stay a "Joe" is pretty much up to them.  Some have, some 
haven't.  
    
<    Aw, Jerry, sorry. Got a little excited there. Guess I'll go back to my
<    12' x 70' trailer and forget about the leaking roof and try to dream of
<    what life may be like with XXX . . .
    
Hey, it's understandable.  Life here has been a constant series of changes, 
with the "big one" on the way.  Evidently XXX sees something here that DEC 
doesn't.  The tough part will be convincing GSO folks that DEC as they knew 
it is dead/history/a_memory.  It's a whole new ball game with new coaches 
and new rules.  I doubt if XXX will be too interested in "how things used 
to be" either - look at the MESS this plant is in.  

Personally, I'll be tickled pink to have a different badge on.


Jerry

    Communication meeting was cancelled this week by manufacturing.
    Apparently manufacturing needs to get the clear from Irene Wong in
    Personnel and Bel Cross on the Int'l Board Committee (or whatever) before 
    some sort of announcement can be made. Management knows more info. but
    cannot let it out yet. Look to see some sort of revelation at the
    rescheduled plant meeting next Tuesday.
    
    Another interesting hypothesis: Ford Motor Co. has Chemet (down the
    street a ways) doing FMC's capacitors. XXX has some kind of connection
    with Ford's boards. Possibility of building FMC boards in the AMC and
    stuffing them with Chemet's hardware in the old ATC. Probably a long
    shot but interesting anyway.
    
    An GSO employee hired for a DEC position up north had his moving schedule
    changed from July to June. Flustered he's digging like crazy to find
    some housing before he ships out.
    
    XXX is technologically behind in the boards business. I'm a little
    concerned that they are soft on R&D and hard on numbers. Seems like we
    may go from the AIM system to hand held temp. probes. Well, so long as
    I keep a job I'll get over it.
    
    John  

    RE: rescheduling the communications meeting....
    
         Also, any announcement this week that might be perceived as
    negative will put damper on the GSO Family outing this Sat.  Can't have
    that, now can we?  Meanwhile my ulcer's kicking my a$$....
    
                                                       Scott

    From what I'm hearing, things are hush_hush between organizations at
    *this* site, and some levels of corporate certainly don't have a clue
    as to what's going on.  
    
    I know this is a very complex venture ... I can't really comprehend the
    magnitude of the work going on right now.  But, wouldn't it be neat if
    the parties concerned could openly discuss what needs to be done, and
    do it ?  I know DEC's lawyers and theirs must be pulling their hair out
    by now ...
    
    RE:  Family outing ...
    It's kinda funny (sorta), but since TFSO's began, everytime we have
    *any* type of gathering where food will be served, employees start
    referring to it as "the last supper".  So what is this, "last 
    supper III" ?
    
    
    Jerry
     

    Well, here's a new one:
    
    If you get a six week TFSO you're "in" with XXX/XXXX. If you get a
    thirteen week TFSO you're out the door!
    
    I got a bang out of the line that preceded the above, i.e., "This is a 
    *reliable* source."
    
    Somehow that word has lost some of its meaning since I've been at GSO
    :)
    
    John

    Well, the GSO Family Outing has passed (*very* nice this year too !) so
    I'm looking to see an all_employee meeting sometime this week.  AND,
    the only news that will be conveyed is "Negotiations are proceeding
    favorably ... blah ... blah ... blah".  For the most part, we'll be in
    the same state as Pearl Harbor was before they got the big bomb.  
    
    I just hope XXX/XXXX doesn't think that current work habits reflect the
    way GSO works.  Most people are tired, disillusioned, and confused. 
    Not much *work* going on.  It's hard to get the car in gear when
    there's no road map laying around.  
    
    RE:  reliable sources ...
    I think most of the rumors we hear really do have some truth to them. 
    But, everyone has to add their opinion along the way, so, naturally, by
    the time they get to us, they're way off base.  I'm heading to the
    beach next week, so hopefully when I get back on the 1st, there will be
    some news ...
    
    Jerry

.31>Most people are tired, disillusioned, and confused. Not much
.31>*work* going on. It's hard to get the car in gear when there's no road
.31>map laying around. 
    
Some would say that this is not unique to site GSO...

Lee

        Just got out of a communications meeting here at GSO.  Re-read what
    Jerry said in .31.  The manager conducting the meeting did, however, go
    over most of the rumors already mentioned in this topic and said very
    definitely that he did not know.  He also said that if any questions
    touch a nerve that couldn't be discussed he would say, "I can't tell
    you".  Well, he never said I can't tell you.  Which, naturally, makes
    me wonder what he had in mind to begin with.....god, all this hanging
    over heads has made me paranoid!  Hell, most aren't worried about what
    is even happening at the corporate level because we're not sure who we
    will be working for!
         There was one thing he did say in the meeting that pretty much
    through me for loop.  He said if this sell did happen to fall through
    that there MIGHT be another "third party" interested in this facility!
    Life in the computer industry........gotta love it!
         One thing did stand out in this meeting and in others; we doing
    good work here and successfully building VERY tough technology.  We've
    just got to become more cost competitive.
    
                                                              Scott
                                             

    One supervisor has taken the handwriting on the wall seriously. I had
    heard from one of his friends that he had been sick or something.
    Surprised, I mentioned it to him. Turns out that he hadn't missed work
    at DEC but was putting in 40+ hours *on the side* getting a business
    going. Fatigued, he had to lay low for a few days.
    
    Lack of information puts a burden on people that cannot be put on a
    chart, graph or spreadsheet. Somehow I get the feeling that if you
    can't do a formal presentation on stress corporate thinks "what they
    don't know won't hurt them." I understand legalities but when they
    become the cause of problems, instead of the cure, something's amiss.
    
    John

    In these times here at GSO, I think it's wise to have a "plan B", or
    more.  I know I've got some things in the works myself.  One day I hear
    that XXX/XXXX wants everyone, they want to ramp up business, etc.  The
    next day, I hear they want a downsizing before they drive GSO off the
    lot, snd that *every* area will have to cut heads.  So who do I believe ?
    
    I'm tired of guessing and econd guessing.  We ALL have to make our own
    list of possible scenarios, and make plans for each one.  Mine include
    how I'd get the best bang from a LARGE TFSO settlement all the way to
    living on unemployment for a while.  
    
    Jerry

    Something that's really amusing (ok, it's nervous laughter, but ...) is
    how the "communications meetings" have differed from shift to shift.  I
    haven't attended any of these, since they're geared toward
    manufacturing, but I have spoke with several people that have been to
    several different meetings.  Naturally, most folks were more concerned
    with GSO's future, rather than meeting the metrics.  "... negotiations
    are proceeding fast and furious ...".  Duh, OK .... BACK TO WORK !
    
    The matter of severance packages was raised in one meeting.  The
    response ?  "... if the plant is sold, you won't be out of a job,
    therefore, no package .... ".  Encouraging, eh ?  
    
    Granted, DEC really doesn't owe us anything more than proper notice of
    a lay-off, which by law, they must do.  But DEC has historically taken
    VERY could care of their employees - I wouldn't think Ken would decide
    to turn about 180 degrees now. 
    
    
    Jerry

    Re.: -1
    
    Brings up a point. You mean I put in all these years with DEC for
    nothing!? No retirement, no accrual of benefits for service - I should
    be happy I still have a job with (this is a paradox) XXX, an
    organization about which I have little or no *practical* knowledge of?
    
    XXX is going to take me on and start the counters at ZERO?! Suppose XXX
    also pays 20% less as well. Would I not be considered wise to take a TFSO
    with DEC rather than go with XXX? Suppose a large element in GSO
    decided to do the same. What does DEC have to sell now? A nice plant
    with plenty of potential energy with little to make it kinetic profit.
    
    Can't gripe at a meeting so I thought I'd do a little "venting" here :)
    
    John                                                           

    You'd probably have more luck griping at your meeting than here, but
    not much.  8^)
    
    Personally, I *feel* that DEC will do us right ... they always have.  I
    don't expect 13 weeks plus 3 weeks for every year's service above 2,
    but, yes, we'll get *something*.  It was mentioned in a meeting today
    that XXX's pay scale would be comparable - meaning wages + benefits
    would be pretty equal to what we have now.  I think this info was shot
    from the hip, and has little or no substance.  If XXX were smart,
    they'd move in VERY quietly, leaving no visible traces, including
    juggling of pay/benefits.  I would *imagine* that along with the hosts
    of lawyers for both sides, there are an equal number of consultants
    helping out this transition process.  Let's hope DEC's getting some
    help here ...
    
    Jerry

        Typical that the meetings would yeild ambiguous info.  Contrary to
    what you were told Jerry, I specifically asked, "If this sale goes
    through will DEC offer any kind of a severance package to those of us
    who don't want to work for XXX/XXXX?"  The answer I got was, "I don't
    know".  This is crazy.....
    
                                                             Scott

It will be interesting to follow (if that's possible) the developments at GSO.
The rumours in Germany are assuming that a large portion of Digital Services 
will be moved away from DEC and given to Digital Kienzle (you know, one of the
companies for which DEC has given out a lot of money, but that hasn't helped 
our profit much).  Since all the employees involved currently have a work con-
tract with DEC, they would "technically" have to all be "let go" and be offered
new contracts with Kienzle.  Which also means, new pay, new benefits, etc.

To be honest with you all, I would NOT assume that a new company will offer you
the same pay and benefits that DEC does.  True, you may find the total package
comparable, or (although I doubt it) even better.  But, what if it is worse?
What if you are going to have to take a 10-20% pay cut, less benefits, the loss
of your pension plan, etc....  DEC can't force the new company to maintain it's
level of benefits (perhaps the costs of payroll and benefits were the main
factors that led to DECs "dumping" the facility in the first place....surely
a new company won't want to buy DEC's problems).

I guess that my interest in it is that Digital Services here may end up in the
very same situation in the very near future.  There may be a lot of people that
assume, "DEC wouldn't do anything like that..."  Sure, DEC may not do it.  But,
if you go to work for another company, then DEC wouldn't be doing it, the new
company would be the one that did it!  You may find yourself being told, "we,
(that is DEC) guaranteed you a job with the new company, therefore we are not
going to pay you any severance pay, etc...we did all we could...sorry that the
benefits at the new company are so bad...but then again, you don't have to take
the job.  It's just that you can't complain to us, we arranged it for you, so
we've done all we're going to do..."

Why would anyone assume that a company that lays you off by meeting you at the
front door one morning with a security guard, escorting you to your desk, and
then giving you 10 minutes to clear out your personal belongings, and then
escorting you back to the door bidding you "fond farewell"...is going to "do
what's best for you..."  This company wants to get rid of a *lot* of people.
They are not currently making a profit (actually 200+ million dollars loss), 
and they don't expect to make a profit for "several" quarters to come. They're
expecting a charge (related to lay offs?) that will just about exhaust the
cash reserves...need I say more?  They don't have lots of spare bucks laying 
around, so they are looking for the cheapest way to dump as many people as
possible.  What could be better than to let some other company take over the
hassle of laying you off.  That way it doesn't cost DEC a thing!

Perhaps I'm overreacting, but since I'm not being properly informed, I have to
wonder if my worst fears are more than my imagination.  I have to assume that
a company that doesn't even care enough about it's employess to inform them 
about what's going to happen to them in the next couple of months, probably
could care less about what happens to that same employee over the next couple
of years.  Will that employee be able to find another job?  Sorry, folks, but
for some people getting layed off may mean unemployment for a long time, which
leads to other social and economic problems, that I don't believe I need to
get into here.  Needless to say (or is it), it can be devastating.

Anyway, enough from me...this has probably all been said before, and noone 
listened then either.

:-( 

Rob

    Gee .... such uplifting words .. where's my gun ?   8^)
    
    Seriously Rob, your dead on the money.  *If* XXX/XXXX offers us all
    jobs (or even if they don't) it doesn't mean that Ken's gonna write us
    all a blank check.  Most of us at GSO would just like to know where we
    stand.  We've been unable to make any long term plans (buying a house,
    car, non_generic groceries ...) because of TFSO's and now this.  At
    this point, bad news is better than no news at all ...
    
    Jerry

Some more interesting news and views:

Fallout. Currently (or so the story goes) GSO take quite a hit for scrap 
and rework from *internal* customers. Apparently we build all our part 
numbers according to DEC standards. However, some DEC customers tweek the 
specs to fit the product to *their* process. Also, we've taken the hit on 
customer's failures to communicate revisions.

We have been "nice guys" for years and politics have played a major part in 
the "role" we were forced to play. For some unknown reason, we are at the bottom
of the DEC's manufacturing totem pole and were forced to take the fiscal hit 
for these and other anomalies. When XXX arrives you can bet that is going to 
change. If this is all true there is going to be some fallout on DEC customers.

Shift gears. The Caribbean operations (read San German) were phased out 
because DEC had to promise XXX/XXXX a substantial piece of the board 
business pie. There just was not enough to go around. San German got the 
axe. A bittersweet pill too because they had just qualified to build 10 
layer product.

Worse still. Many very experienced people in the board business lost thier 
jobs. One mentioned that he had 19 years experience and was better 
qualified for a position than most folks at GSO. He was told that DEC 
didn't work that way. His job went away though his skills could easily 
dove-tail with what we do here. He ought to check out XXX's address a few 
notes back and send a resume' :).

Another one. GSO is on the block because DEC cannot operate manufacturing 
profitably. Overhead was key to a lopsided approach in the business. They 
just couldn't stop buying toys they really didn't need. Instead of focusing 
on operator quality and throughput an infrastructure of unnecessary 
management and accompanying "perennial projects" was created. 

On the flip side. GSO engineering has a bad reputation. How long have we 
dealt with white haze rework? Bandaids are chronic and management has 
promulgated the problem. XXX will have no underlying loyalties though so 
hopefully that will change. DEC is *far* too tolerant in some respects.

Well, we are well on the way to being profitable now. DEC has TFSO'd quite 
a bit of the infrastructure. Manufacturing "promoted" the old manager out 
the door and replaced him with a very bright, bare-bones, nuts and bolts 
leader. I'm looking forward to XXX in one sense. We are going to make money 
and that means I'll still be pushing buttons down here. No TFSO and a 
potential cut in pay bothers me greatly. But at least my feet will have the 
feel of bedrock under them.

John

    Look to see the big boat turn around.  But also look to see some folks
    that don't have a firm grip fall overboard.  8^)
    
    Jerry

Just heard that DEC has 20 or so manufacturing plants and is planning on 
scaling down to 8 or so. Manufacturing in areas where competition has 
already stolen the show will be given up while those facilities with 
leading edge technology (read profitable) will remain.

Cause of failing to compete. One reason was a top heavy style of managing 
business. Not only top heavy but salary heavy as well. DEC will run a 
facility with a 120K manager while XXX may do it with a 65K manager. A DEC 
facility would need three floor managers at 60-70K while XXX could do it 
with one at 45K. You get the idea.

Also, boards are going away (I've heard that this one was floating around 
15 years ago). Chip technology is taking its place. Well, unless someone 
shows me different I haven't seen a chip function as a stand-alone piece 
that runs an entire machine yet. 

John

	In the UK there is a specific thing called "transfer of undertaking",
	so if one company takes over part of another, they have to "transfer 
	the undertaking" of the employees, this means same number of years 
	service, very similar conditions, ie the contracts of employment have 
	to be the same (similar enough so no-one can say they are less).
	
	For those employees that are not moved with the "transfer of 
	undertaking", but are forced to leave, they are entitled to redundancy 
	payment.

	This is not Digital specific, but part of the employment law in the UK.

	Heather	

    The latest I've heard is that this is a "done deal", but the BIG holdup
    is getting DEC to work with DEC.  XXX/XXXX is waiting on that ...
    
    Jerry (whose taking a week off to NOT think about this for a while)

    Yet another tidbit. Appears that when DEC sells a facility from
    underneath our feet we *all* become vested - 5 years or no. I like
    that rumor. I'm only working on 4 years at DEC with 5 children 7 years
    old and younger. No retirement with anybody. I'm just trying to keep
    our trailer's tin roof over our heads!
    
    I've had 13 years with the Marine Corps but they wanted me to sell my
    soul to stay 20. Family comes first so I got out. Even if you *do* sell
    your soul there is always the horror story floating around about the
    guy who had 19 years, 7 months and couldn't reenlist the remainder. No
    retirement, no nothing.
    
    Sure would've like to have gone to the beach Gerry! I need a new front
    end and oil is leaking from my block someplace :(
     
    John

    Could've heard a pin drop around here the last two weeks. Not a rumor
    in sight - but one. DEC is waiting till November to turn the helm over
    to XXX. None of the expected "announcements" surfaced, just business as
    usual (what little there is anyway).
    
    John

        I hope someone with some clout here at GSO is reading this.  I was
    at my Dr.'s _again_ today and he told me that he has seen several DEC 
    employees lately...all with illnesses that he would describe as stress 
    related.  That's why I was there....  This crap is really taking it's
    toll on us.  And everyone else, I'm sure.....
    
                                                             Scott

    I just noticed two boxes sitting in the corner of my area that had not
    been there previously. Curious, I took a look inside and found them
    partially filled with dry chemistry in various sized containers from a 
    company with the following label:
    
    XXX + XXXX
    710 Dawson Drive
    Newark, DE 19713
    
    It seems like this is the chemistry intended for the full build line
    that we have been experimenting with. Draw your own conclusions.
    
    John

    I take it the XXX + XXXX is the company that you and I can't mention
    right?
    
    Capt. Scott

    I'm confused.  Why can't XXX + XXXX be mentioned by name?  The name was
    listed publicly in a news brief in last month's "Electronic News".  Is
    there some special reason why the general public can know, but not DEC
    employees?

    Probably DEC policy ... 8^)
    
    I get the feeling that DEC wants to keep things under wrap until the
    ink is dry, sorta like a shady used car salesman.
    
    "Why yes, this is a state of the art, high tech manufacturing facility,
    with potential for XXX zillion dollars in annual revenue ... uh, but
    DEC couldn't pull it together.  And by the way, *that* suit is *you* !"
    
    Jerry ...

    If you're a manager at plant Y which is likely to be purchased by
    company X, you only know what you are told to know from on high.  And
    that's all you can tell your employees.  Anything you read in the press
    is rumor and real managers don't repeat rumors.
    
    That's the rationale.  I don't say I support it.  But that's it.

    Re: Note 1857.54 by SGOUTL::BELDIN_R

>   If you're a manager at plant Y which is likely to be purchased by
>   company X, you only know what you are told to know from on high.  And
>   that's all you can tell your employees.  Anything you read in the press
>   is rumor and real managers don't repeat rumors.
    
    I see. Are journalists allowed to spread rumors in in last month's
    "Electronic News" without being responsible for their material?
    
    Capt. Scott,
    
    Yes. XXX + XXXX was our XXX/XXXX. Their logo was pretty "plain Jane"
    but that's what it looks like (all caps). Seems like they have been
    together for some time to come up with non electrolitic dry chemistry
    for Cu  and solder mask deposition.
    
    John

    Can I buy a vowel ???       :^)
    
    DL

    Yes.  8^)
    

    re .55
    
    No, journalists are not held accountable for spreading rumors!  That's
    called "freedom of the press".  Just try to sue any newspaper or
    electronic medium for an out and out LIE, and you'll get no
    satisfaction.  Imagine how much attention they will pay to the idea
    they should be accountable for spreading rumors.
    
    There is no agency which holds any element of the media accountable for
    telling the news accurately.
    
    However, the FTC does crack down on "false advertising", so if the
    information you found was in an ad, you might have a better chance.
    
    Dick

    
    Newsflash ... I've heard from VERY reliable sources, that GSO will be
    downsizing again.  VERY soon, so as to cash in on the current TFSO
    money available.  The reduction in force will also sweeten the deal
    with XXX/XXXX.  The numbers mentioned were 100 I/L, don't know about
    D/L.
    
    Jerry

    Here is the entire _Electronic News_ article.  Note that it does NOT
    confirm the rumor, but only talks about likelihood.  This ranks with
    Wall Street analysis for factual content, IMO.
    
    Column: The Antenna
    {May 18, 1992, p. 6}
    
    BOARD TURNOVER -- Watch for AMP to bid on Digital Equipment's
    Greenville, S.C., printed circuit board operation, with several other
    suitors also possibly in the picture.  DEC, which has been reducing its
    mostly captive PC board production, is already slated to shut its
    Puerto Rico board facility over the next year.  Meanwhile, the AMP-Azko
    joint venture is in the circuit board business, and AMP could also use
    the Greenville capacity to support its Austin, Tex., backplane assembly
    operation.

    Could someone post the current TFSO package contents ?  How many weeks
    per years of service, etc. ?  I may need to get the old calculator out.
    
    Jerry (who's already been in transition once ...)

    	
    
    	We're having an off site meeting today at the Marriott..should be
    over by 2:00pm...
    
    	Hopefully some good news will come from it...but I doubt it.
    
    B.A.

    Define "good" ... 8^)
    
    This meeting will only determine what the final GSO population will be. 
    Then the department managers will be given a final headcount, and will
    will structure their group accordingly.  By the 15th, we should know
    who's staying or going.  Look to see IL take a beating, DL will barely
    be touched.  Of course, I'm just thinking out loud. 
    
    I know things are VERY quiet around here today.  Everyone's waiting to
    hear *something*.  Personally, there is no *bad* news.  The waiting is
    over either way.  GSO *will* be sold, things *will* change, but for the
    better, since that's the only direction left to go.
    
    I do know this though ... this cut will run deep.  Previous TFSO's took
    our breath, but in most groups, they were able to rally and still
    supply most services with fewer people.  That won't be the case now. 
    It's been rumored that my group may fall from 13 to 6-8 ... and that
    *will* impact this plant.  It'll be hard to rally around that kind of
    loss, but it will have to be done.
    
    Should be an interesting week ...
    
    Jerry

    
    	If I were XXX, I would want a down sized plant as well... I mean
    look at our attitudes towards our peers,work and our lives as this
    point!   The less bad attitudes the better for the new man.
    
    	Why not come in here with little head count as possible and do some
    real snow jobing to get some morale back into the blood of the workers?
    
    	Give a few partys, a couple hundred meetings to show/tell what's
    going on.  Get moving again!
    
    B.A._just_doin'_the_same_
    

    I'm just afraid DEC will screw up this sale, and we'll all be left
    twiddling our thumbs.  
    
    Some of the participants of that dreaded meeting have made it back into
    the plant ... I guess they left their happy faces in the car ...
    
    No big surprise though ...
    
    
    Jerry

    Latest from the grapevine . . .
    
    182 will be TFSO'd. 70 direct labor (whew, you're kidding!). 112
    indirect labor. Plant population is currently under 600. I also heard
    120 indirect and 30 direct, but, who knows?
    
    On the XXX + XXX front. Somebody high up in the board business was told
    to "quit dragging their feet" or XXX + XXXX would pull out. Also, don't
    look to see anything change over until *January* (?).
    
    XXX + XXXX is looking for a "lean and mean" facility. They cannot be
    "lean" and not "mean" so . . .
    
    Criteria for DL TFSO:
    
    1. Performance. If you really like to stay in one area and have
    demonstrated it on numerous occasions start working on a resume. If you
    have this uncanny ability to attract scrap you're going to need a
    resume service to help you fill that thing out. You can think of plenty
    other performance related issues which come into play.
    
    2. Attendance. If you really have been enjoying DEC's paid "sick" days,
    find it difficult to get to work on time and nearly always have a
    schedule conflict when asked to work over or during the weekends begin
    planning on what to do with your package money. STDers beware.
    
    3. Seniority. Not an issue if you fall into one of the above catagories. 
    Otherwise, this might help. But seniority is no longer the player that it 
    used to be. Loyalty is one thing, but you cannot be "loyal" and a couch
    potato too.
    
    4. AA/EEO. If you love to learn other processes, are never late or sick
    and have been here since grandma Moses there is always the chance that
    you are white and male. I don't think this is too big an issue but
    there are some horror stories flying around in note 1838.*.
    
    John

    Our group has a meeting with our boss at 9:15.  If she told me the sky
    had just turned teal green, I wouldn't bother looking outside.  So,
    I'll post any FACTS from that meeting.
    
    This is going to be an interesting week ...
    
    
    Jerry

Probably ought to be in another note, but...

re: "STDers Beware"

What does this mean? I mean I know the literal translation is,
but what *is* the real policy with regard to folks on disability?

    I'd think that you're job would have to be questionable without STD
    involved before a person on STD would get tapped.  Attendance will
    playt a big part I'm sure, and most rules in DEC will bend a country
    mile before they break, depending on who's applying the pressure.
    
    Anyone know any FACTS concerning current TFSO money, if any ?
    
    Jerry

    Just a rumor but I heard that there was *no* TFSO money.
    
    Just another rumor but I heard that *200* are going to be "tapped."
    
    Little history on STD. One employee, "Katie Fazer" (alias, if you can't
    tell), had been on STD twice for extended periods of time (more than a
    week or two). She also had her fair share of sick days to boot. She
    scrapped on occasion and could not lift some of the product. There was
    talk about modifying the process so she could lift, but . . .
    
    Though she had seniority and experience she was TFSO'd.
                                                          
    FWIW,
    
    John
                                                                       

    RE:  <<< Note 1857.73 by RAVEN1::LEABEATER >>>
    
        <Just a rumor but I heard that there was *no* TFSO money.
    
    I *think* that's true ...
    
        <Just another rumor but I heard that *200* are going to be "tapped."
         
    I'd wager that figure is close.  If the final headcount is to be 350,
    then 200 would be in the ballpark.  
    
    Jerry

    
    	I heard a rumor that most of the rumors were false!
    
    Go figure...
    
    B.A.:*)

         Yeah, well statistics show that 90% of all rumors are false
    along with 90% of all Statistics! :-)  We need a little humor, eh?
    
    Scott

    led to my latest Pname..

    RE: "I heard a rumor that most of the rumors were false!"
    
    So, if _your_ rumor is one of the false one, that means most rumors are
    true *8^(

    
    	True...:*)
    
    B.A.
    

    
    Hum....
    
    	No news....=  Good news????
    
    Sure is quite in the plant today...
    
    B.A.

    ... that's the calm before the storm.  8^)
    
    Here's my predictions for the following 2 weeks ...
    
    
    GOTCHA !   8^)
    
    
    Jerry

    To the GSO folks: 
    
    I visited the GSO plant on several occasions and found the people
    extremely friendly and helpful, considering I'm from the North. 8^)
    I had worked in the Board Shop when it was called the Snake Pit in 
    Bldg. 7 at the Mill.  What a difference... no awful smell!!! 
    
    I thought the site was warm and inviting along with the city of
    Greenville.  I have fond memories of my visits.  Stayed at the
    Courtyard and the Residence Inn on a few occasions.. Dinner at the
    Peppermill Restaurant was always a "must do" on any trip.
    
    
    Good bye all, best wishes in your job searches.
    
    Marie

    Bye Marie....uh, do you know we don't???  Sorry...just a bit of
    southern humor. :-)
    
    Scary,
    
         That's too damn funny.....mind if I forward that to few people?
    :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    

    On a side note ... evidently there are more folks aware of the fate of
    GSO than we think.
    
    My family recently moved, so we've been bombarded with salesman of
    every make and model.  The "Filter Queen" salesman came by last night.
    He's deep into his sales pitch, and asks where I work ... I told him. 
    He asks where my wife works ... she works at GSO as well.  The
    demonstration was OVER at that point.  He stopped setting up the vacuum
    cleaner and started asking about how DEC in Greenville was doing, since
    the corporation was in such a mess, and was there any possibilities of
    us losing our jobs.  My answer to him was a definite "YES".  Part of
    the demonstration was a check for $25, and he gave it to me saying
    something like "I wish you luck ...".  Sheesh, how many bags of dried
    beans can ya buy with $25.  He said he couldn't try and sell us one of
    the $1300 marvels because of our job status, unless we wanted to pay
    cash, and who's gonna shell out that kind of money if they think
    they're going to be out of work.  It was pretty funny after he left -
    he used our phone to set up another appointment.  
    
    Jerry

    	Scary,
    
    		Funny that you should mention "Ren"; this whole situation
    reminds me of the episode "SPACE MADNESS" on "Ren & Stimpy". Can you
    say: "paranoia"?
    
    			-Hoop-

    ... and no, I'll pass on the space cabbage.  8^)
    
    Jerry

    I just learned that effective July 6th, Earl Dail will be acting plant
    manager.  If *anyone* can grab GSO by the short hairs and lead it
    toward the light, he can.  This is GREAT news !
    
    Jerry

    re .87
    
    Please give Earl my congratulations and condolences, in no particular
    order.  :-)
    
    /rab

    
    	Now that BMW is has made their decision to build in S.C. The word
    on the front is that DEC will make an announcment next week! 
    
    B.A._Who_wishes_that_BMW_would_look_at_us! :*)
    

    Hey, XXX/XXXM makes boards/connectors in Ford and GM, why not Beamers ?
    
    Jerry (who thinks XXX/XXXX should keep *most* of GSO, and retool the
    ATC ...)

    re: -.1 -.2
    
    The problem is that most automotive electronics are single and double
    sided and engine controls are double and four layer boards.  Not
    necessarily high tech.  Do you think you could compete making low tech
    boards with the likes of Diceon, Hadco, etc when we were not able to
    compete with them on more sophisticated product.  The last I heard was
    that GM was paying/internal charging somewhere around 10 to 15 bucks
    for an unstuffed 5.5X8 board for engine controls.  This is ready for
    assembly with virtually no defectives reaching assembly.  Could GSO do
    it with existing overhead structure?  I don't know.
    
    Dave

    "... existing overhead structure" is what's has shot BIG holes in GSO's
    foot since day 1.  GSO has been supplying boards to DEC, not the real
    world, so there's no way it could compete on an open market given
    current conditions.  BUT, give this place a fresh start, AWAY from the
    *&^$% that we MUST endure as a DEC facility, and I'll wager that this
    plant will rally in a big way, and soon be the benchmark for high tech
    volume board manufacturing.  All the ingredients for success are
    already here.  All GSO needs is a chef (upper level management) to mix
    them and put the entre' on the table.  It *CAN* be done.  And
    personally, I hope I'm here to see it happen.
    
    Jerry

    Last I heard the dowsizing "exercise" has come to a screeching halt.
    All the work/worry done in the last week was just, er, "exercise." What
    has brought all this about? Huh, I dunno, but . . . 
    
    . . . the other rumor (which may or may not dovetail) is that XXX + XXXX 
    wants in very *soon*. Third shift was told last night not to be sick or 
    take vacation early next week if they could help it. The public
    announcement will be made this Friday (nice of them to let us know
    directly) and we'll be going to 4 tens in four weeks. 
    
    One other rumor: rumors start from the bottom and work their way up.
    
    FWIW,
    
    John 
                                                         

    On a slightly interesting note...

    	My wife went to the local library and got a book on "How Smart
    People Deal with Lay-offs".  Now I figure they'd just tell you to get a
    resume ready and hit the trail!  WRONG!  This book was really up to
    date..even had DEC in the example mode several times. From all the
    back-door meetings that nothing comes out of them, to the "We're all
    safe for now" then the door closes'. What to look for..as in dropping
    stock prices..hint..hint.. what to do about jumping ships while cover
    your a*sets.

    	Haven't gotten to part of Buy-outs yet..will read that tonight! 
    It's really interesting stuff to read about how our plant has been
    right to the last detail. It was printed in 1991..I looked cause I
    couldn't believe the accuracy of the book!

    B.A.
                

    RE:  The rumors ....
    
    Well, I think all this frenzy *was* labelled as an excercise from the
    start - we just heard DOWNSIZING and took it to mean what the last
    "excercise" was.  We ain't outta woods yet ... we won't be as long as
    the faded frayed DEC flag waves in front of GSO .... and we won't
    really be safe when XXX/XXXX takes the driver's seat either.  It's all
    a gamble regardless ....
    
    As far as people not being sick or taking vacation ... what a crock ! I
    can see people being encouraged not to burn sick days, but not
    vacation.  I tell ya ... if I'm on vacation when the BIG news breaks,
    I'm sure it will still be BIG news when I get back.  They certainly
    won't need my approval to secure the deal.
    
    I know I'm ready to get to work, for someone, anyone.  And I think
    that's the way most of GSO feels right now.  But more important ...
    will we get a turkey at Christmas this year ?  8^)
    
    Jerry 

    Any truth to the rumor that contracts will be gone by August 1st and
    that 30 some odd 3rd shift employees will be coming to 2nd?
    
    John

    	The only "truth" that I have heard (this is from the meeting that
    3rd shift had Sunday night) is that 27 of the 57 people now on 3rd
    while be moved to either 1st or 2nd shift by or after July 22nd.
    
    	The remaining 30 people will work as a "skeleton crew".
    
    			-Hoop-

        I was at the meeting.  This is what was said:  we have about 90
    people on 3rd shift.  Roughly half will be moved to 2nd shift by the
    end of July.  The rest of the Manufacturing people will be a more
    versstile crew than we've had before.  They will need to be able to run 
    the whole process at any given time depending on where the work is.  I
    haven't heard anything as to what will happen to me.  I don't think
    my shift will change as I will have to be here to support Drill, Rout 
    and Test.  Of course this came with the standard disclaimer:  ** This
    could and probably will change before it ever happens. **   Oh, and yes
    the temps will most likely be gone by Aug. 1.
    
                                                           Scott
                                         

    Yet another rumor.
    
    DEC is no longer dragging its feet with XXX + XXXX. Apparently (or so
    the rumor goes) XXX et. al. is still haggling over details. Also, DEC's
    agreement not to scout for other buyers has lapsed.
    
    The current string of scenarios are playing out the "what if's" of the
    XXX + XXXX deal falling through. GSO's TFSO "exercise" is in a holding
    pattern on a desk up north waiting the outcome of the negotiations. If
    they fall through - TFSO with a package. Seems like DEC would rather
    risk letting us worry a little than allowing us to lose out on
    available package money (which may not be around after this TFSO).
    
    FW(ever)IW,
    
    John

    The "restructuring" money *is* there ... it just hasn't been decided
    how it will be handed out.  I'm sure DEC will take care of the souls
    involved in the next rounds of TFSO .... may not be as good as the last
    one, but it *will* be better than most companies.  And, it's mighty
    hard to second guess exactly what's going on with the sale and in the
    minds of the people signing the papers.  I'd think the issue of what
    will happen to the people is probably one of the smaller bullets on the
    project plan.  But, with the lack of information being provided,
    speculation is about our only recourse ...
    
    Jerry

    Since the corporate calendar has turned a new leaf and put to rest some
    previous rumors a new crop has arisen to replace them . . .
    
    1. From the 6th to the 10th XXX is sending in an auditor.
    
    2. On the 11th the announcement will be made.
    
    3. Everyone gets a 7 week package. The other rumor about $ was that DEC
    will give us a 60 day notice and not have to pay anybody anything.
    
    4. XXX will "keep" who they want (don't ask me how that works - rumors
    don't get too specific).
    
    John
                                      

    Latest from the imagination:
    
    "Ren and Stimpy appointed to Plant Staff.  Happy helmets will be given
    out with the new badges.  There will be one more flag pole added in
    front of the facility (making 4 total) ... 2 flags will read `Happy',
    the others will bear flags claiming `Joy'.  Space cabbage *and* Gritty
    Kitty(tm) will be offered in the cafeteria at least twice per week."
    
    Seriously, I *have* seen a mysterious gentleman wandering the GSO halls
    with our acting plant manager.  I think he's selling Amway ...  8^)
    
    Jerry (who won't believe *anything* unless he hears it from his manager)

    RE: .105
    
    	John,
    
    		Which "Tuesday" are we supposed to have a meeting?
    
    			-Hoop-

    June 20th
    
    -(sorry)
    

         All I can say about this whole place and everything happening, is
    that I'm disgusted.  Now, we're being told that DEC laying people off
    isn't going to happen.  We're to be sold with the rest of the fixtures
    in the building.  BTW, the "papers" were supposed to have been signed
    on friday.  So the new owner can walk in here, learn the business from
    us then "downsize" all they want!  And no one gets the approved
    severance package DEC will being offering this quarter.  Yet, Puerto
    Rico is treated fairly, the rest of DEC that gets layed-off gets a
    severance package (this Q at least), and most of Europe seems to be
    faring well.  But GSO in South Carolina, the proverbial black sheep of
    the family, gets sheared!   DISCLAIMER:  I hold nothing against the
    places listed above.  I just wish/hope we get treated with the same
    (relative) fairness.
        Oh yeah, then of course every meeting is ended with a "this-could-
    change-any-minute" disclaimer.  
        
    Scott
                                                                       

>    severance package (this Q at least), and most of Europe seems to be
>    faring well.  But GSO in South Carolina, the proverbial black sheep of
>    the family, gets sheared!   DISCLAIMER:  I hold nothing against the
 
	In the UK we will have 4350 by the end of the current rightsizing, down
	from 6250 in 1989, thats over a 30% reduction, some groups/places in 
	the UK have been hit harder than others, and some groups harder at
	different times.

	To cut evenly across everywhere may not leave us with the right people
	to do the work that is needed to turn this company around.

	What is fair will be looked at differently by different people, I am 
	glad I do not have to make those difficult decsions, and I do not envy
	those who do.

	Heather

    Izzat permies only, or are you including contractors in that number?

	Permanent staff

    re .109
    
    Are you suggesting that every employee of Digital in Greenville is
    assumed to accept the "offer" of employment by XXX?  It sounds like
    slavery to me!  Everthing I ever knew about employment would suggest
    that every individual has to sign a personal employment contract.  The
    presumption that a person is so hard-up for a job that s/he will take
    whatever is offered sounds too arrogant to be true.
    
    I hope you've misinterpreted what you've heard, because I would not
    like to totally lose my respect for this company.
    
    /rab

    The information is slowly coming together.  I know there are some GSO
    folks that would like to stay with DEC, but the closest site is ALF,
    and most jobs these days don't offer relocation funds.  It's not like
    being in MA where you could *possibly* just go work at another
    facility a few miles away.  So, I too *think* that since GSO employees
    will be sold with the furniture whether they like it or not, that they
    will get some "monetary token of appreciation" from DEC.  I could be
    wrong.  It may be a "given" that everyone here has a job with XXX+Xxxx
    and that is an implied job offer - naturally, you don't have to accept
    it.  If you turn it down, well, too bad for you.  One thing is
    consistent with the latest clumps of information given to us, there
    hasn't been *any* talk of severance money - nothing.
    
    Our acting plant manager will be conducting employee meetings tomorrow,
    so maybe some questions will be answered there.  And, uh, no, I won't
    be posting the results ... 8^)
    
    Jerry

    re: .109 Pinion
    
    There are a lot of black sheep.  GSO may be getting sheared but Puerto
    Rico is being made into mutton.  Yes there is a package for the 100% of
    the people being laid off in PR, and there is no discussion as to how
    the selection process will proceed and whether or not it is fair.  Bear
    in mind too that (rumor has it) that the decision to close PR was
    because the production had to be promised to XXX-XXXX as part of the
    GSO sale agreement.  This, along with sagging sales, left excess
    capacity in PR.  I would think that XXX-XXXX would try to treat people
    fairly and figure out who they need to retain to meet their goals.  In
    many respects I would trust a stranger with a profit motive to be
    responsible for GSO next downsizing than the previous management
    structures.  The latter were interested in numbers, headcount, etc. not
    a functional organization.  I actually sat in a meeting where one of
    the senior managers was talking about cutting heads of "workabees" 
    (translated) worker bees.  That person is no longer there but is still
    with DEC.  I cannot believe that anyone, stranger or otherwise, would
    hold production workers in such low regard.  At least you at Greenville
    have a chance to maybe make it with the new company, people here in the
    San German area are going out into a market with 18% unemployment (and
    maybe 20% by the time DEC is closed down)
    
    It's hard to say if anything is fair or not, the vast majority of us
    have little control over what is happening or going to happen.  We just
    need to play the cards as they are dealt and hope for better hands in
    the future.
    
    Dave

    Well, I think XXX+Xxxx has some very large plans for GSO, but it'll
    take a 180 degree turnaround in work ethics to make it happen.  Not
    everyone here at GSO will be receptive to this change, and will in
    effect, dig their own grave.  Personally, I look forward to the change,
    even though I know it will be a hard morsel to swallow.
    
    I think one difference we'll see will be a new focus on personal
    accountability.  This is good, since it will drive some folks to
    perform at a higher level.  But some folks will hang on to the old
    ways, which will make them appear to be lazy .... next thing you know,
    they're history, and without a 'package'.
    
    Jerry

    If the sale is indeed final, will someone please post the real
    identity of "XXX+Xxxx".
    
    Thanks.

    It isn't final (that I know of ...).  I guess we'll see it on CNN
    first.  8^)
    
    Jerry

>    If the sale is indeed final, will someone please post the real
>    identity of "XXX+Xxxx".

	Take a look at .60.

Larry

    re: .119
    
    Thanks Larry.  I missed that one.

    re:.114
      
         Why not post it here? The way I understand it they expect us to
    find out all information from word of mouth. Is there another layoff?,
    Is there a meeting?, Has it been cancelled?, is it on again?, what does
    the package involve?, what is going on??
    I have heard all the news this way in at least the last 1 1/2 years.
    All of it has come to pass. I have no reason to believe all this is
    just talk. As far as I know there have been no formal anouncements
    (untill the day of) to inform us what is going on.
      I do understand the fear of getting in trouble, with security? or
    somebody. But I haven't heard of anybody getting repremanded about this
    notes file yet. Am I wrong?
    
    M.K.

       According to our plant manager here at GSO, the sale has not yet
    happened.  No new news from the meeting, just a lot of speculation.  Oh
    and yes, the people here are a part of the deal....to be sold with the
    rest of the furniture.  If you decide not to take a job with the new
    owner, then your guess is as good as mine as to whether or not you
    would get the "package" the rest of the corp. is getting.  You'll have 
    to decide for yourself whether or not you think that's fair.
    
    Dave,
        
         I know life isn't fair.  Like I said in the reply, I hold nothing
    against anyone getting whatever "package" they get.  And I know how an
    island economy can be and I think PR deserves a more lucrative
    severance. I just hope GSO gets treated fairly.  In my eyes, to be fair 
    about it, I think DEC should offer those that do not want to stay with the 
    new owner (if the sale does indeed go through) the current TFSO or 
    whatever we're calling it this time 'round.
    
                                                           Scott
   

        Oh yeah, "this-could-change-any-minute!" (tm).

           <<< HUMANE::DISK$DIGITAL:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 1857.123        Is GSO being sold to XXXX?  Who knows?           123 of 124
RAVEN1::PINION "Hard Drinking Calypso Poet"          20 lines  14-JUL-1992 01:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
>    Oh and yes, the people here are a part of the deal....to be sold with the
>    rest of the furniture.  
    
    
    	Who's being 'sold'?  What is wrong with the sale involving an 
    	offer employment to the employees?  As long as benefits are 
    	comparable, do you really care what logo is on the building?
    	

Don't think of it as the plant being sold; think of it as being
put under new management. Something that, in the long run, may
be the best "package" of all.

					- Bluejay Adametz
					  asset tag number 076-42043

>    	Who's being 'sold'?  What is wrong with the sale involving an 
>    	offer employment to the employees?  As long as benefits are 
>    	comparable, do you really care what logo is on the building?
 

	In the UK there is employment law which covers takeovers, especially
	relating to the terms and conditions being the same - its to provide
	protection to employees from possible unscrupulous employers.
	It called "transfer of undertaking".
	Is their similar employment law in the US?

	Heather   	

    >	In the UK there is employment law which covers takeovers, especially
    >	relating to the terms and conditions being the same - its to provide
    >	protection to employees from possible unscrupulous employers.
    
    >	Is their similar employment law in the US?
    
      Heather, I'd like to hear the answer to your question, but by the way,
    is this the law that protected employees of UK companies being taken
    over by Robert Maxwell?   UK readers know what happened to their pensions, 
    etc, and to the working environment in some of these companies (fear of
    being fired and maybe sued, among managers of the taken-over companies,
    was quoted as one factor preventing them questioning Maxwell's actions).
    
        I'd say the guys in GSO are right to be very concerned - employment
    law is usually a minefield, and not the kind of litigation you want to get
    into when you don't have/may not have a job.   Though, I hope the xxxx
    company is a bit more reputable than Maxwell's operations.

   
>      Heather, I'd like to hear the answer to your question, but by the way,
>    is this the law that protected employees of UK companies being taken
>    over by Robert Maxwell?   UK readers know what happened to their pensions, 
>    etc, and to the working environment in some of these companies (fear of
>    being fired and maybe sued, among managers of the taken-over companies,
>    was quoted as one factor preventing them questioning Maxwell's actions).
 
	What happened with Maxwell was that he acted illegally, AND he went
	bust. Also the regulatory bodies have chastised themseleves about
	the way they regulated. What will finally happen I don't know, as this
	is still being sorted out.
	I know someone who declined a take-over as the terms and conditions 
	were not the same. He is currently fighting for compensation under
	this law, and is likely to settle for a large amount of money.
	   
>    I'd say the guys in GSO are right to be very concerned - employment
>    law is usually a minefield, and not the kind of litigation you want to get
>    into when you don't have/may not have a job.   Though, I hope the xxxx
>    company is a bit more reputable than Maxwell's operations.

	I would be interested, and find out the new terms. I wouldn't worry
	unless I found them unacceptable, then I'd take action.

	Heather

    
     I don't think a company can sell their people. If this plant gets
    sold to XXX then I would either have to quit, get fired or get layed-
    off. If the company buying the plant agrees to hire all the present 
    people working here then I doubt we will be offered a package at all.
    If you want to continue working you take the job, if not it will be
    a lay-off with no package.
    
    M.K. (just my opinion)
    

         Pardon the poetic license wrt to "selling people".  To make it a
    little more clear, what I don't want to see is DEC sell us to XXX/Xxxx 
    and all employees given a job with the new owner and if you don't
    take it then you're out the door without the "package" the rest of the
    corp is getting.  It bugs me that there are no details forthcoming and
    we're also told that when it happens it'll happen fast.  If I knew for
    a fact that DEC wouldn't sell this place without a stipulation in the
    contract that the new owner not lay anyone off in the first 6 months. I'd
    be more comfortable, but tell me...what do we know for SURE around
    here?
    
    As for the logo, I'm not interested in staying in this particular job with 
    a new company.  I'd much rather be layed-off.  Now if I had a job, say in 
    IS, it would be a different story.  As with most things, it's a matter of 
    perspective.
    
                                                              Scott

    Pat,
    
        What was said in our meeting last night was that the employees to
    staff this facility were a major part of the deal.  Now I don't know
    about you, but I haven't had the best experiences with having other
    people here looking out for my best interest.  The potential new oweners 
    have said before that the number of people we have is too many.  How do
    we know DEC isn't going sell, offer us no severance, then 2 months
    later the new guys decide to make some cuts in the headcount.  One of the
    biggest factors in a desision like that will have to do with how much
    business we can get and you saw what happened in Q2, 3, & 4.  The
    numbers didn't quite make it.
    
                                                               Scott

    RE:  Job security ... 8^)
    There is no such thing these days (ask George Bush).  I'm probably in
    the minority, but I'd *love* to stay here with the new company.  From
    what I've heard, pays scales won't change, benefits are comparable,
    we'll keep our 'length of service' so vacation will keep building, etc.
    That's a pretty good deal !
    
    Let's say you leave here, without a package, like it would be in the
    'real' world.  You start off at the BOTTOM with a new company.  No
    seniority, no vacation time.  And let's say your new employer finds
    itself in financial troubles, who do you think will be the first to go ?
    Methinks it'd be the new kid over the long timers.  *If* the sale goes
    through, and *if* everyone at GSO remains, there will probably be at
    least a 6 month transition period where everyone's job will be safe,
    since it'll probably take the new folks that long to figure out what
    everyone is doing.  8^)  That'll be your opportunity to carve a niche
    for yourself.  They'll want to see results ona daily basis - no ROI, no
    future, no turkey ...
    
    My understanding is that the new folks are more interested in
    increasing revenue than cutting heads for cost reduction (pretty wild
    concept, eh ?).  A manufacturing facility will only make money if there 
    is volume involved.  XXX+Xxxx evidently has some idea/plan on how to 
    radically increase the volume here.  This site cost way too much money to
    maintain just to build a handfull of boards by a handfull of people.
    
    However, since the 'sale' probably won't go down for another 8 weeks or
    so, I feel like DEC may TFSO here, and the reasons are two_fold:
    	- *if* the sale falls through, TFSO would be the first step in cost
           reduction, so we'd already be one step ahead of the game.
    	- XXX+Xxxx can't make any business decisions for GSO at this point
          but less people would probably sweeten the deal a tad, and I'd
          also wager that this has been discussed in a restaurant somewhere.  
    
    In the meantime, this site needs to 'roll up it's sleeves' and pretend
    like our life depended on it - because it does, either way.  For this
    plant to be successful with new owners, it'll take a radical change in
    the way we do business.  For this plant to remain a part of DEC, it
    will take an even more radical change.  Either way, time to lace up our
    shoes and get off the couch ...
    
    Jerry

    
      I forgot to add in my note that I am also unhappy about the idea of 
    no package. I don't intend to work for this new owner either,in the
    immediate future, and I was looking forward to getting a package.
    I came back to work after I had my baby just to get a package. It would
    have been stupid of me to quit if they would pay me to leave. As it is
    I will probably hang in here untill the layoff/take-over. I still like
    the money! =).
    
    M.K.

    The Golden Goose is dying a slow death.  Lots of folks are waiting
    around to get that last egg.  While folks sit on their hands waiting,
    they're not working, which hurts us folks that want to be driving into
    the same parking lot 10 years from now ...
    
    I can understand the mentality though - it wasn't too long ago when I
    was saying "pay me, play me, or let me go" ... and I meant it in that
    order.
    
    GSO has countless untapped resources, and I'm mainly speaking of the
    manufacturing ranks.  XXX+Xxxx, if they're smart, will make it possible
    and profitable, for these folks to branch out.  If GSO's successful, I
    think everyone on board will share the wealth, and vice versa ...
    
    Jerry

    What's right with GSO?
    
    First, we *can* make PCB's nobody else makes. We can make them well and
    we can make them in a reasonable amount of time. Further, we can do it
    with fewer people than we have now. We'll have to sweat a little but
    the plant is air conditioned so that's not too bad. We'll have to work
    overtime but I'd rather have OT than cut profits and give my OT pay away.
    
    Second, we have very skilled people. There are still plenty of PhD's
    running around the shop floor. There are still a number of good managers 
    and supervisors (mine are two of the best). We have operators who go way 
    beyond job knowledge - they possess job instinct. They know what to do 
    without thinking about it. 
    
    Third, we have reasonably up to date processes and excellent facility
    support. Mike Carmany and others are worth more than they are paid.
    
    If I keep my job and benefits I've got nothing to really complain
    about. DEC hired me and they can dump me if they please.
    
    John 

Can someone explain to me why so many people are expecting a
"package" if a different company starts running it?

Nobody got a package any of the [numerous] times we got a new
plant manager. This is the same sort of thing, just instead of
a replacement at the plant manager level, it's a replacement
from the plant manager on up.

Granted, a pocket full of money would be nice, but I don't see
where anybody has any obligation to give it to us.

					- Bluejay Adametz

    99% of the rumor here stems from wishful thinking combined with mass
    paranoia.  I don't expect any money either.  Just keep me employed.  As
    long as the paychecks don't bounce (and I wonder every week if mine
    from DEC will ...) I'll be happy ...
    
    Jerry  

    
      Let me (try to) make myself a little more clear.
    I'm not waiting for a package any longer, although I was when I came
    back, and when I came back this did not effect my work. I don't know
    anyone that is expecting a package from the new owners (?). If we get
    new owners. Right now I'm just waiting for a good time to leave this
    company. I think that I would rather be layed off than quit. (my
    choice) I have to admit that I'm not working very hard right now, but
    this is because of some very specific reasons. Several of them are:
      I have worked very hard to get promoted twice to gain the position
    I'm in now. Another department decided they would prefer to control the
    job I do and took it (or most of it now) without taking me.(and another
    person). This erks me most because they did this with 3 other positions
    from my area and always took the people with the job. My job has not
    gone away!! I could always go back to the last 2 jobs I did but this is
    not what interest me any longer. Because of my situation I have made
    some choices and I am waiting for the time to implement them, or to
    have them implemented.
    
     From my own experience, I don't know too many people, if any, that are
    sitting on their hands and waiting just to make someone work harder or
    to hurt the company. Any that I have seen do this has been fired in the
    past. 
    
      When I have work, it gets done.
    
      I wish all the best for this company, and have had the greatest
    respect for Digital in the past. (not quite sure how I feel now?)
    And I so hope that everyone gets to keep a job whatever it may be, and
    with whomever it is.
    
    M.K.
    

    >   From my own experience, I don't know too many people, if any, that are
   > sitting on their hands and waiting just to make someone work harder or
   > to hurt the company. Any that I have seen do this has been fired in the
   > past. 
    
   >   When I have work, it gets done.
    
   > M.K.
    
        Thanks for saying this because I think it's a MAJOR generalization
    to think that other people who would like to see some sort of severance
    package come from their years of loyalty are just sitting back waiting
    to get paid.  And I'm sure some do, but not all.  And I don't really
    think that's what Jerry means, but it's easy to misunderstand things in
    Notes because there is no personal contact.  I would like to leave
    too, but I'm also getting paid to do a job that gets done regardless of
    how I might feel personally.
    
                                                             Scott

    going . . .
    
    
    
               Going . . .

    RE-1
    
    	It's only a rumor....:*)
    
    B.A.

    And even *that* is subject to change ... 8^)
    
    Jerry

    Check please!
    
    Sdp

Check?? You'll have to wait. Payday is on Thursday, as you should
know by now.

						- Bluejay Adametz
						  (fully depreciated)

    :-)

    	We should all know about the buy-out before it happens...Why?

    	Cause XXX wants to have all of the employee's beneficiaries(sp)signed
    and turned into the HQ before signing any agreement.  I think that the
    signing is some kind of law.
    
    	So we should all have to sign before they agree...
    
    B.A.
    

    Anyone remember any of the Cheech and Chong albums (or 8-tracks) that
    were out in the 70's ?  Concerning this sale, one of their lines comes
    to mind ....
    
    
    ".... sign zee papers old man ..."
    
    8^)
    
    
    Back to your regularly scheduled program - hit 'next unseen' for more 
    whining and griping ....
    
    
    Jerry

    
    RE: -1
    
                "I cannot sign zee papers, you have broke my fingers."
    
     Kinda sums up where we are as a company.....

    
    Gee, no mention of the survey crew today?  Tsk, tsk, our local
    news crew is slippin'!  

    re-1,
    
    	They've been around all week...so it's not a hot topic I guess?
    
    	Now that we've passed another ISO 9000 audit, maybe we'll hear
    something to the effect of the buy-out!
    
    B.A.

    Surely that "audit" wasn't what was keeping the pen from the paper. 
    Who knows ... I mean, as it stands right now we're still DEC, which by
    default rules out a lot of logic ... 8^)
    
    I heard we're all gonna get a flat 37 weeks severance too ...  8^)
    
    Jerry

    and benfits til the 12th of never!

    ... yeah, that's the ticket.  8^)
    
    Jerry

    Wow,
    
    	It's almost noon and no report!!!!  Geez,  It's official!  We're
    sold! I guess we can name the XXX now...?
    
    	DEC will buy our vacation time and we'll start from scratch with no
    severence pay from DEC for being good little boys...:*(.
    
    	We do get to keep our seniority(sp)for whatever that's worth. 
    Don't know about pension plans yet.
    
    	Maybe Scary can shed some more light into the tunnel!
    
    B.A.

<<    	Maybe Scary can shed some more light into the tunnel!
    
    Sometimes the guy with the flashlight is the first one to get hit by
    sniper fire.  8^)
    
    From a all employee meeting held this morning, looks like GSO will no
    longer be DEC on or about 31-AUG-1992.  Everyone will keep their job
    and pay scale should remain the same.  I can surely live with that !
    Over the next 3 weeks, there will be meetings upon meetings ironing out
    details.  Bottom line is, GSO will get another breath of life.  Now, if
    everyone will get in their head and work like their job depended on it
    (similar to the real world, not DEC) then in a matter of time, this
    plant will be making boards, in volume, that no other company can
    touch.
    
    Jerry    

So they finally found a pen that worked and signed the deal...
Hooray!

Give me the money for my vacation time (which I don't have time
to take anyway) and let's get on with it....

						- Bluejay Adametz

[hmm.. that money will buy a real nice paint job for the Tiger...]

    >> Under the agreement, AMP-AKZO will offer employment to the employees
    >> working at the facility...
    
    What is the actual employment status of DEC's GSO employees?
    
    What happens to DEC employees who decline to be hired by AMP-AKZO?
    
    Are they still DEC employees?  Are they being fired by DEC?  Are
    they being laid off by DEC?  Do they receive the same TFSO as anyone
    else being separated from DEC?
    
    I'll delay editorializing pending any replies to the above :-),
    but there's something vaguely unsettling about some aspects
    of this whole thing...
    
    Chris

    In all reality, the employees were sold along with the flagpoles.  No
    package, no TFSO, no $$$ from DEC.
    
    In return, all GSO employees keep their current positions, at current
    pay, with "comparable" benefits.  Personally, I don't have a problem
    with that at all.  I was in transition once, and though the money would
    have been nice, the idea of starting over *new* at a new company didn't
    appeal to me at all.  
    
    This will provide everyone with the best of both worlds.
    - new direction provided by new management
    - new products, new projects, new guidelines, new deadlines
      
      ...but with,
    
    - old fellow employees
    - old surroundings
    - old compensation
    
    This "sale" has been "in the works" for a LONG time.  Everyone here had
    the option of moving to another DEC site, or just plain leaving.  If
    they chose to stay, then they have no cause to whine now.  If they
    choose NOT to join AMP+Akso (please, spell this correctly ... 8^) then
    they are free to hit the bricks, just like in the real world.
    
    I expect every bar in town will look like a DEC outting during happy
    hour today.  Some happy, some sad.  
    
    Jerry (one of the happy ones ...)

    .161> In all reality, the employees were sold along with the flagpoles.
    .161> No package, no TFSO, no $$$ from DEC.
    
    .162> we're part of the deal. like the furniture. {-:
    
    .162> if you don't quit, you will automatically become an AMP/AXZO employee.
    
    
    I'll exercise proper restraint and avoid using the "S" word, but
    this just doesn't sit right with me.  Doesn't the relationship
    between employer and employee have some legal status that would
    preclude employees being bartered around like, uh, property?
    
    Even if it is legal (and I assume that, with our parade of legal
    types, they've checked it out quite thoroughly), this treatment
    of employees runs totally counter to my system of values.  It seems
    so involuntary and degrading, to be sold to another company in this
    manner.
    
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore, and I suppose I'm not.
    There's lots of emotions at work here, but surprise isn't among them.
    
    Chris

    
    For the record, it's AMP+AKZO.

    <flame on>
    
    Would someone please point me toward the light ?
    
    - we still have our *CURRENT* jobs.
    - we still have our seniority.
    - vacation will accrue at the same rate.
    - we will have new management ideas (folks have been screaming for
      YEARS that it was upper management's fault that GSO wasn't
      profitable.  We'll see ...)
    
    NO ONE IS LOSING THEIR JOB !  What do people expect to be paid for ? 
    Sure, the remaing folks at GSO 'missed' out on past TFSO's.  Tough
    feces.  That's history, and can't be changed.
    
    The only thing that will change will be our badges (including number)
    and hopefully, our work ethic.  
    
        
    
    Jerry ...

    RE .163
    
    So what would you prefer ... that everybody get fired or something?
    
    This doesn't seem any different to me than what happened when a small
    start-up company I used to work for got bought out by a larger company. 
    The employees all continued doing what they did before, they just got a
    different badge to wear to work in the morning.
    
    It ain't like slavery, you know ... no one's being forced to stay, and
    there has been all kinds of advance notice that it was happening.
    
    Hey, the bright side is that the GSO folks now don't have to worry
    about getting TFSO'd ... can't say that for the rest of us.
    
    ... Bob
    

    re: .159
    
    As in Sunbeam?  If so, let's do some email.  I own (bought new) a '67
    which has been sleeping in my garage for years.
    
    	Regards,
    
    	Ron
    

    re .166
    
    >So what would you prefer ... that everybody get fired or something?
    
    No.  I would prefer that the new employer take the trouble to deal
    personally and individually with each employee and allow him or her the
    privilege of accepting or declining employment after meeting some of
    the management.  In my mind, the current treatment is highly
    disrespectful on the part of both administrations.  People are not
    cattle and Digital is not a union which has collective bargaining
    rights for its employees.
    
    But, then I've always been a bit of a maverick.  I got mad when
    somebody talked about promoting me to a high position without
    consulting me.  So maybe my perspective is warped.
    
    fwiw,
    
    Dick

    My .02 are that I feel screwed for not getting any so called "package"
    because of the effect that DEC was getting "Packaged people" back in
    here to work after paying them to leave.
    
    	In the other corner, I'm with Jerry. I need a job, a good paying
    job at that! I'm building a house, got to have some funds ya know.
    
    	All in all I'm glad that it's done! Too many days of wondering if I
    was still going to be employed!
    
    Now...On with my LIFE!  Yeah!
    
    B.A.

    The folks coming back aren't DEC employees, they're temps hired by A+A.
    
    I'd love to have 'em back.  
    
    RE: a few back ...
    All GSO employees will have the right to stay or go after meeting the
    new management.  Hell, they've got that right today.  But a lot were
    hanging around to get this 'big package' that NOBODY promised. 
    They gambled, they lost.
    
    Jerry  

    Better take a chair with ya ... don't think you'll have a leg to stand
    on.  8^)
    
    Jerry

    Actually a concerted efforted amoung employees in a non-union shop would 
    get a lot of attention.  That may be all, but at least then you have a
    voice in the matter....whether it's listened to or not.  Also, a
    concerted effort would be protected by the NLRB, I think.  BTW, if
    anyone has any advice concerning this sale and they don't want to post
    it here, please feel free to send me mail.
    
    And when you get down to it, it's all a matter of perspective.  
    Personally, I think AMP getting this shop is gonna be mutually beneficial
    to DEC, AMP, and most employees.  However there are those of us that
    would benefit more by getting layed-off with the present TFSO.  So all
    anyone here can really speak for is themselves.
    
    BTW, can anyone point me to the note about the IBM employess that won a
    suit about 2 years ago dealing with a severance issue?
    
    Scott
                                                          

GSO going off the Easynet? That won't happen yet for a c

    
    	Bluejay, I agree, the chances of that happ <zap...pffft>

    I'm dyin' over here .... 8^)
    
    Jerry

    >  I'm dyin' over here .... 8^)
    do you have life insurance?

    /Nasser
    I spelled checked

    re: .168
    
    Thanks, Dick... I haven't had the chance to reply until now, and
    my reaction is pretty much the same.
    
    As for those of you GSO'ers who are happy, that's wonderful, and
    I'm glad for you.
    
    In addition to what I've already stated, I should elaborate that
    I cannot for the life of me understand why the GSO employees can't
    be treated in the same manner as all of the other DEC employees
    who are facing separation: specifically, that if they choose not
    to accept a job offer with this other company (a complete unknown),
    then they will be laid off from Digital with the same TFSO package
    that is being provided for everyone else in the company who is
    being laid off.
    
    As a former Manufacturing type, I must add with a jaundiced eye
    that I can't imagine employees in any other department of this
    corporation being sold off in this manner, and having their arms
    financially twisted into forcing them to accept employment with
    this new and unknown company.  Can you imagine a whole carpeted
    building full of "suits" being sold to another company along with
    the Steelcase units and conference room tables?
    
    Well, good luck to those of you who are happy with this deal, and
    even better luck to the rest of you!
    
    Chris

    Can anyone point me in the general direction of any other deals being
    made by like this?  Is this a first for DEC? 
    
    Scott 

    RE: 179 by CORPRL::RALTO ...   
    
<    As for those of you GSO'ers who are happy, that's wonderful, and
<    I'm glad for you.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the *change* ...
    
<    In addition to what I've already stated, I should elaborate that
<    I cannot for the life of me understand why the GSO employees can't
<    be treated in the same manner as all of the other DEC employees
<    who are facing separation: specifically, that if they choose not
<    to accept a job offer with this other company (a complete unknown),
<    then they will be laid off from Digital with the same TFSO package
<    that is being provided for everyone else in the company who is
<    being laid off.

True, the GSO ranks will be severered from DEC (commonly called "AMPutees") 
but there will be no jobs lost.  I feel DEC was looking out for *everyone's* 
best interest when they opted to keep everyone working rather than a massive 
TFSO, which would have been devastating for GSO's future - we've lost too 
many good people already.  Also, please keep in mind that everyone will be 
performing their current job under the new regime.  The only thing changing 
will be badges and, as I stated earlier, attitudes.

The root of the discontent isn't being addressed.  I feel that the folks 
that are happy with their JOB, will continue to be happy with it under the 
coming circumstances.  But the folks who were NOT happy in their jobs were 
waiting around for some imaginary cash, that was never promised.  Sure, 
there was plenty of rumor, but unfortunately, rumors are the only product 
GSO can successfully deliver on time.
    
<    As a former Manufacturing type, I must add with a jaundiced eye
<    that I can't imagine employees in any other department of this
<    corporation being sold off in this manner, and having their arms
<    financially twisted into forcing them to accept employment with
<    this new and unknown company.  Can you imagine a whole carpeted
<    building full of "suits" being sold to another company along with
<    the Steelcase units and conference room tables?

    GSO has it's share of "suits" too.  Maybe now we can get some new
    carpet though ... 8^)  
    
<    Well, good luck to those of you who are happy with this deal, and
<    even better luck to the rest of you!
    
I wonder how many folks in Puerto Rico would have been happy with their 
sites being purchased as opposed to being closed.  I was in transition last 
year, and got snagged back in.  I was applying fast and furious anywhere I 
could think of, for both IS and manufacturing positions.  I had 2 
'opportunities', even took 9 weeks of pre-employment classes for a higher 
paying manufacturing job.  I turned it down.  No for the possibility of a 
package, but because I like what I do.  I like the people I work with and 
work for .... why leave ?  Believe me, *any* job you may take these days will 
put you at risk of being 'rightsized'.  Careers don't exist like they did 
for dear old dad.   

Count your blessings .... ;^)


Jerry
                         

        As I said before, the only person any of us can speak for is
    ourselves.  Also, it hasn't been said that you will neccessarily keep
    doing "your" job.  Most of the people here will, but as someone in
    personnel told me yesterday it could easily happen that my job would
    get re-classified to production and I could either take it or leave. 
    So not all of us can count our blessings before they hatch.  You've got
    a good job with a great group, Jerry and if I were in your position I'm 
    sure I'd feel the same as you. (my boots are a size 12 wanna take'em for 
    a walk?) :-) :-)
        BTW, thanks for the mail folks and I found the IBM thing I was
    looking for....well part of it.
    
    What? huh?!!!!  Wait...it was a joke!  Put that circuit board down, it
    might be loaded!!!!!!
    
    Scott

    .177  are you being threatened?  many 8^)'s

Not to fan any flames or anything (which some seem to be doing
quite nicely), but...

Has anybody considered, *IF* GSO employees were given a TFSO,
how unfair *that* would be to those who really did lose their
jobs?

Granted, we don't know much about how AMP-Akzo will run this
place or what their plans are, but then I know even less about
DEC's plans, and what I can figure on my own looks worse than
what I can figure AMP-Akzo has in mind.

						- Bluejay Adametz

    RE: job reclassifications ...
    
    Tell me about it !  Since GSO first started TFSOing, my group has been
    in constant change.  My job barely resembles what it did 2 years ago,
    and most of the folks in my group have witnessed big changes. 
    Regardless of whether AMP+Akso was calling the shots or DEC, I think
    these changes needed to come about, and would have either way.  GSO was
    working toward being profitable before AA was even in the picture. 
    What we're living now is just some better (won't say 'good' yet)
    business sense.  
    
    Unfortunately, some things will change for the worse under the new
    management, since they bring in some new guidelines, and the fact that
    GSO has the chance to make some things 'correct' that have been 'wrong'
    under DEC for years.  As it's been stated before, GSO is a big boat and
    it'll take a while to turn it around.  But even then some folks will
    fall overboard.  
    
    I hope some folks can see this as an 'opportunity' to jump in a make a
    difference.  Worried about job security ?  Then DO something about it. 
    I'm planning on taking my vacation money from DEC and headin' back to
    school.  Gotta remember that in todays job market, you're either
    working to get ahead, or you're falling behind.  Time for us to take a
    big breath, lace up our shoes, and knock the PWB community on it's
    caboose ... 8^)
    
    Jerry 

	Doesn't employment law cover this?

	In the UK their is something called "transfer of undertaking", which 
	means if one company takes over another, or part of another over, they 
	must transfer the undertaking to the employee
	ie seniority, leave, notice period etc...........equivilent benefits.
 
	If the employees think that they are not getting the same benefits, 
	then they can appeal.

	They can't demand redundancy pay (TFSO), as they are not being made 
	redundant, its just the people who own the company, or area of business
	in which they work, that has changed.

	This has happened with rank xerox taking over our print room, and with
	us taking over parts of Keinzle and Philips. 
		
	Heather

    
    	re: .-1
    
    	Rank Xerox did not take over our Print Room, so not exactly the
    	same as GSO situation at all.
    
    	We Vendorized it, same way we did with Logistics and the T&B deal.
    
    	With the Kienzle/Philips thing, I am not sure how they actually
    	got handled, but they have certainly transferred the benefits thru.
    
    	What with all our current reduction, there will possibly be more 
    	Ex-Kienzle at the next 25 year do than genuine 25 year Digital.
    
    	:-)
    	

    Benefits, pay, etc are *supposed* to be comparable, which will
    undoubtedly be close enough to hold up in a court of law.  
    
    But all this hoopla is more about morals.  Many feel (and in a way I do
    too) that DEC *should* have given all GSO employees *some* token of
    appreciation.  Something they could put their hands on, other than
    benefits, tenure, etc.  Cash is always the perfect gift.  But, as a
    business, *both* parties have done 'the right' thing by carrying over
    jobs.  It's just that in the past DEC has always gone 1 step beyond
    what was required to make sure their employees got a fair shake.  This
    time it appears that DEC has done what was legally required, and not
    much more.  However, it does no good to run around with your lip poked
    out, might trip on it.  8^]
    
    There was an interesting discussion this morning around "when will we
    start feeling like AMP+Akzo ?".  My guess is that once we get a
    few paychecks with the new logo on them, that will surely help.  New
    badges, new parking stickers, new cafeteria trays.  
    
    We can't live in the past though ... if you keep looking back you'll
    trip over something in front of you.  DEC has been very good to me, I
    can't deny that.  DEC has some serious problems to contend with, and
    personally, I'm glad I don't have to worry about them anymore.  Only
    time will tell if the new folks will treat us well.  But from a 'job
    related stress' point of view, the only way to go is UP.  
    
    Jerry

    RE: .171
    
    		The plans for an off-site meeting are being updated. We are
    trying to find a more suitable place to congregate and shoot-the-breeze.
    Until that time, the original reply (.171) has been deleted to avoid
    confusion.
    
    			-Hoop-

    I'll probably get a spankin' for this, but ... 86)
    
    
    ... maybe you could hold the meeting at Job Service ... kill 2 birds
    with 1 stone ...
    
    Many many 8^) 
    
    
    Seriously, there does seem to be a lot of emotions involved here.  And
    until everyone vents them in one way or another, we won't be productive
    and successful.  I hope everyone can find a way to release the demons.
    Hmmmm, wonder if AMP+Akzo makes happy helmets ?  8^)   Or maybe we can
    watch a little TV .... 8^)
    
    Jerry (who says humor, loud guitars, and cold beer are the best
    medicine ...)

    Jerry or anybody else...
    
    	Let me ask you a question, to be serious for a minute.
    
    	What if AA comes in Sept 1st and says "Bye!, Everyones History!"
    
    	Did DEC or AA for that matter live up to there end of the bargin
     by keeping our jobs for a day?
    
    	I think that is what some people feel might happen to them.  That's
    why they feel DEC should have offered some kind of "package".
    
    	If AA did that, people would have a legitimate grip for TFSO not
    being offered to them.
    
    .02
    
    B.A.
                            

    AA can't run this plant without people.  I can understand fears around
    job security, because there are so many questions that haven't been
    answered yet.  I can only hope that in the coming 2 weeks, they will
    be.  
    
    But in order for this plant to be a success, the DEC to AA transition
    (maybe not such a good word anymore, eh ?) should be viewed as a bump
    in the road.  Over it, and on down the highway.  Things are a mess
    right now, they surely don't want to throw anymore fuel on the fire.
    But, I guess the fire could be smothered by fresh currency, correct ?
    
    I think we should all nominate ourselves for a RAP award ... 8^)
    
    
    Jerry

    Just had another thought .... (that makes 4 today ...)
    
    *If* AMP+Akzo came in on 01-SEP-1992 and canned everyone, by SC law
    they'd have to *pay* employees for 60 days (or something like that)
    since they didn't give a lay off notice.  There's your package.  
    
    Jerry ....
    

Has anybody seen anything to suggest that AMP-Akzo _would_
fire everyone? I mean information, not "gee, what if...".

Everything I've seen indicates that AMP+Akzo wants to have
this facility turning out boards continuously during the
change of mangement, and that suggests a minimum number
of changes.

					- Bluejay Adametz

    This isn't a hostile takeover folks.  AMP+Akzo sees some untapped
    resources here.  I'm more than willing to follow their lead and
    hopefully put my son through college on AA paychecks.  All together 
    now ... "Hip Hip, AA !"  repeat 2 more times, or more as needed.
    
    Jerry

    
    	It was only a "What If" question...but no one thought there would be
    a riot at the Tokyo exchange either!  :*)
    
    	I don't care much for Turkeys, I'm interested in desert! :*)
    
    Bring on the change!
    
    B.A.

    
    i think part of what is fueling the negative emotional reactions are
    what you mentioned, jerry, the lack of knowledge about how this change
    will affect each individual.  as someone whose career didn't not start
    with DEC, i can vouch for the fact that 'work-related-stress' can
    indeed get worse.  does that mean it will?  no, not necessarily.
    
    while i may not see things the same way as others, i can certainly
    understand where [some of] the panic is coming from. when you look at
    the history developed here over -specifically- the last couple of
    years, its hard to know what to trust.  i think that history has gone a
    long way towards contributing to peoples concern, or panic.
    
    ~robin

    That list of 'unknowns' will undoubtedly fuel many more rumors too.  
    
    One thing I *did* learn in my quest for other employemnt is that GSO
    does *NOT* represent the way most manufacturing facilities conduct
    business.  In order for GSO to compete with similar sites, it will have
    to play by similar rules, which will go against the grain for a lot of
    folks.  I guess since I had to learn to work like that, the upcoming
    changes don't scare me.  It'd be like this *anywhere* else you went work.
    
    RE: committees, class_actions, etc.
    This is just my opinion.  I'm no sage or lawyer.  BUT .... the DEC
    corporate lawyers are probably sharp as a razor.  There are NO holes in
    this sale.  The *package* that some people are holding out for roughly
    equates to 'pain and suffering'.  Anyone watched "People's Court"
    lately ?  Wopner don't play that.  DEC won't either.  All this energy
    could be focused back into jobs or self-improvement.  Put it where it
    will do some good.  Everyone will experience a sense of loss, I do too.
    But that chapter in our lives is CLOSED !!!  I don't have any
    suggestions on how to help folks to cope with this though.  My wife and
    I have different emotions concerning this (she's a AMPutee as well ...).
    And we'll do what we have to do ...
    
    Jerry

    In the UK, you need to have worked for a company for 2 years to get any 
    redundancy pay - now the plant is now AA, you now start working again
    at month 1 - If the US laws are anywhere like the UK ones, doesn't this
    mean they can just dump who they want without any redundancy money ?
    
    Winton

    Yes, it does.  They can dump whoever they want.  And there has been a
    lot of speculation that that's why the deal took so long because DEC
    wanted them to lay-off whoever they didn't need, so DEC wouldn't have to 
    pay severance to anyone here.  As a matter of fact, a lot of managers
    told their people back in June, I believe it was, that AA didn't want
    everyone here and that we needed to cut about 150 - 200 people.  Then
    we were told that the plan to make cuts was on hold. 
       In other words we'll never really know exactly what it too to make this
    deal go through.  The only thing AA is required to do is give us and
    the state a 60 day notice that there will be a lay-off.
    
    Scott
           

    Shouldn't the
    
    'Do The Right Thing'
                 
    be that DIGITAL rightsizes to the 'correct' size, TFSOs the unlucky
    ones, and then sells it. As it is it would seem Digital is AVOIDING its
    financial commitments to its ex-employees....
         
    And people say we don't need no unions ?
          
    Winton         

    
    
      So how much was the plant sold for?
    
    
       Sorry to see you guys go...  :^(
    
    
    						-al

    $24 and some beads, I think ... 8^)

>       Sorry to see you guys go...  :^(

Wait a minute... we're not going anywhere. Digital is what's
leaving.  

Seriously, in my opinion, circuit boards are to the electronics
industry like ball bearings are to industry in general. Just as
anybody who makes anything that moves is a customer for ball
bearings, anybody building electronics will be a potential 
customer of ours (AMP-Akzo, that is). As a circuit board 
manufacturing facility, I think we've got a lot more future
under a circuit board manufacturing company than under a
computer manufacturing company.

					- Bluejay Adametz

(I started a new note for this and was just referred to this note.)
    
     
    What do the Greenville people think about the purchase of their
    facility by AMP-AKZO?
    
    
    
    GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE IN GREENVILLE....I HOPE YOU GUYS MAKE A
    KILLING AND EARN TONS OF REVENUE....then won't DEC be sorry!
    
    

    Well, DEC will still be one of our largest customers, so let's hope
    they're happy.  
    
    Jerry

    (RE: .207; it's GSO, not GNO)
    
    
    RE: .171
    
    	The new "meeting" place has been confirmed; we will gather "down
    the hill" at the Crown Pub (@7pm). They are letting us use a banquet/
    meeting room that sits above the Hawian Gardens, but use the Crown Pub
    entrance. 
    
    			-Hoop-

    Yeah, we'll use the Crown Pub too ... 8^)
    
    Jerry (who says any excuse to drink a beer, is a good excuse ... 8^)

    I wonder about a couple things ...
    
    1 - OK, now that we *supposedly* have jobs and can go on with our life,
     	what do we put down as our "years at present job" when filling out
    	a credit application.  I'd be somewhat po'd if I was denied credit
    	because I'd only been with my current employer for X weeks, when I
    	haven't been unemployed for over 9 years.
    
    2 - I have *all* my insurance through Metpay.  If Metpay won't continue
    	coverage (weekly deductions) as they do now, then I'll have to fork
    	over some serious premiums.  
    
    I know a LOT of these questions will be answered in coming weeks, but
    I'm still curious.  
    
    Jerry

    re-1,
    
    	Jerry I can answer that one for you since I'm in the process of
    going throught the motins at all the local lending institutions for my
    Mortage loan.
    
    	Put down the amount of time you have spent with DEC! It all boils
    down to a buy-out, not a layoff.  I talked with one branch manager and
    he assured me that I would have no problems with that question.
    
    	They(Mortage comp, employers)will call Carolina Circuits(Great
    name!)to ask about employment with the company. So you shoud be fine.
    
    	I'm not sure about the insurance premiums thing..have to check with
    CC.
    
    Have a beer for me as well, for I will not attend this meeting bearing
    what happend yesterday at lunch.
    
    Later,
    
    B.A.

    Also,
    
    	Will CC be able to access through Easynet once the changing of the
    minds has taken place?
    
    B.A.

    Say goodbye to NOTES.  Is there life after NOTES ?  I'm not sure, we'll
    have to learn to cope.  The EASYnet will still be there but access will
    be VERY restricted, and violation of it will be taken quite seriously.
    
    Jerry
    

    Fight for your right to NOTE !!!!
                                 
    It ain't gonna cost AMP that much, and think of the goodwill it would
    engender !
    
    Winton 

    
    re .-1
    
    You got to be joking!
    
    I suppose that extending this philosophy means that any Ex Digital 
    Employee should have the right to NOTE.
    
    How many other Companies Notes Files do you access?
    
    :-)
    I Did'nt Spell Check

    I'm sure we'll use NOTES locally for business (can you imagine ?), but
    no access to these notes ....
    
    ... now, if someone wants to run a batchjob and mail me all the
    'unseens' every day, I'd have no problem with that.  8^)
    
    Jerry

A little more information for the curious...

Our (AMP-Akzo, Carolina Circuits, whatever...) access to the Easynet will
be restricted to MAIL and file transfer with selected business-related nodes.

After we "fall off the net", you may address mail to us using whatever 
address you're accustomed to prefixed with the passthru node AMPAKZ::. For 
example, you'll be able to send me mail at AMPAKZ::FEATHR::BLUEJAY.

						- Bluejay Adametz

    Just a quick note ... I attended a meeting today, and finally got to
    meet the AMP+Akzo General manager.  I am VERY impressed.  He's going to
    drive a hard bargain - it won't be the management style GSO is used to,
    but I think he'll be able to motivate (one way or another) the GSO
    population into a proud frenzy.  Finally, there is some LEADERSHIP in
    this plant.  He's got goals, and a plan on how to meet them.  BIG
    goals.  I've been lulled to sleep by management before, it could happen
    again.  But for now, this man has my vote.  If he acheives his goals,
    GSO will be a circuit board standard that other board shops are
    compared against (favorably, as opposed to now ... 8^), and those who
    help him will certainly profit from it.
    
    I'm pumped !
    
    
    Jerry

    I think we'll see a HIGH level of accountability placed on Plant Staff,
    managers, supervisors, and employees.  This change won't taste too
    pleasant to a lot of folks.  Others will enjoy the empowerment. 
    
    I have no doubt that there are AA folks that could move into these
    staff and managerial positions, but he's going to give GSO a chance to
    change.  If not, bring 'em on.  This will be a whole new work ethic,
    and personally I'm looking forward to it. 
    
    Jerry (sportin' a homemade AA badge ... 8^)

    Times, they are a' changin'.  I just came in (call_in) through the
    front lobby of GSO.  There *used* to be a gorgeous 3-D wood "digital"
    logo behind the security/receptionist desk.  It's been removed, and the
    wall has been repainted.  I felt like call security !  They probably
    already know though.  8^)
    
    Jerry

    generally, the only people profiting from workers working harder are
    the shareholders...

Perhaps, unless you consider it a "profit" that people
have secure jobs, good wages, medical insurance, .....

					- Bluejay Adametz
					  (is it 31-Aug yet?)

    re: -1
    
    Amen, Bluejay!
    
    Steve (former GSO'er, watching with interest)

    I tell ya what's nice .... reading all these notes concerning TFSO,
    etc, and knowing that by this time next week, I won't have to worry
    about being a statistic.  Who knows what the new company will do (hell,
    we don't even know what kind of insurance we'll have !), but to me,
    there's no way to go but up.
    
    We've got some all_employee meetings scheduled this week.  Hopefully,
    little by little, this site will STOP feeling like a DEC facility
    (worry worry, stress stress) and start feeling like a good place to
    work.  
    
    Jerry

    	It only takes an 1/2 an AMP to kill somebody! So, how many AMPS
    does it take to kill 495?  :*)

    Just kidding!  Should be a dull meeting to me...we'll really know
    nothing till we become AA.  But, if you really want some fun, go to the
    2nd shift meeting...they asked(tm)questions!  :*)

    Like Jerry, ready to get it over with!

    B.A._who's_been_AMPutaded!

    >Yeah, and I just read the memo we got about the 'hotline' that's
    being staffed by the EAP folks to answer questions about benefits, pay,
    etc.  Will it matter if the same non_information is conveyed by a
    non_DEC voice ?  Methinks nay.  
    
    Doesn't really matter anyway - either you stay and find out or you
    leave and hear about it.  8^)
    
    ps - and how about that memo asking IL folks to help out *WITHOUT PAY*
    this coming weekend.  Wait and see how many show up.
    
    I'll just be glad to hear Jay say "OK, here's where we are, here's
    where we wanna be, and here's how we're gonna get there !".
    
    Jerry
                                                               

    
    
    I predict you'll have near 100% turnout at the weekend. Why? Beacuase
    people will think the new owners will be collecting the names, so they
    know who the real workers are.
    
    May or may not be true, but thats how I'd be thinking in your shoes,
    
    Simon

    A quick update for the interested....(from a meeting with AMP+AKZO
    manager and our plant manager)
    
    - Vacation pay probably be less
    
    - There may or may not be a shift premium for the off-shifts.
    
    - Nothing solid on medical benefits (not that the above is solid
      either)
     
    - We're setting up a hot-line to answer benefit questions.  However
      it's being ran by a non-DEC and non-AMP+AKZO contract.
    
    ....that's just a couple, but nothing was really solid.  I do like the
    new guy though.  I think he's just what is needed here at GSO. 
    However, I've thought that before....hope I'm right this time.
    
                                                           Scott
    

    We had 'one of his kind' as a plant manager here once (Joe Cross) but
    he soon turned out to be 'one of the boys' and nothing changed.  I
    think AA will give the new manager s free hand to manage GSO, uh,
    excuse me, SCC.  
    
    This time next week, we'll be AMP-Akzo ... I think a party is in
    order.
    
    Jerry  

    >> This time next week, we'll be AMP-Akzo ... I think a party is in
    >> order.
    
    Nah, don't party......give in to GTS, you'll feel better!
    
    8^)                   

    My lump sum vacation check has 'Tele' written all over it ... 8^)
    
    We must fight, for our right, to party.  
    
    
    Jerry

    Well, if they're going to do that, why not ask DL to do the same ? 
    You're probably right though.  And, I'm willing to help out, provided
    I'm not standing alone.  That's when a good deed turns into a scr*w
    job.  
    
    Jerry 

    re:  lump sum check :== 'Tele'
    
    Scary,
    
    the purchase of a Telecaster would indicate a party attitude...I
    suppose that qualifies.  I still like to call it a GTS seduction.
    
    Dawg

    Man, ya gotta love this place !  As the sale gets closer, the rumor
    mill has cranked up again.  I've heard so much in the past 3 hours
    about vacation, insurance, head_count, and wages that I'm about to
    hurl.  Some, I can believe, some I choose not to believe (even though
    it may have firm roots).  I get the feeling like DEC, and possibly
    AMP-Akzo share a common thought - "... well, at least you have a job!".
    
    Very true, but *if* you're getting porked in everyway except your
    hourly wage, that statement may not matter.  Again, I don't know enough
    details to safely scream 'murder', but it may be a sitaution where if
    it smells like *it* and it looks like *it*, chances are, it's *IT*.
    
    I just wish I had more information so I could knmow in my heart how I
    feel about all of this.  I'm kinda confused right now, and unless I
    want to hit the streets, I just have to shut up and hope *someone* will
    take care of me.  This makes me uneasy, to say the least.
    
    
    Jerry (a current victim of rummor_mania ...)

Is there a glossary for this note?

GTS?

Tele?

						- Bluejay Adametz

    GTS	   :== "Guitar Toy Syndrome"
    Tele   :== "Boat paddle with 6 strings"
    
    I guess fair is fair ... I had to ask what "SMOH" and "SMWJ" meant.  8^)
    
    
    Jerry

    
    
    re .238
    
    i know, jerry.  its hard to know what or who to believe anymore ...

    Wasn't Jerry the one saying Yippeee aout the sale a week or so ago ?
    Weren't you worshing the feet of the 'dynamic' new management and
    promising to sacrifice youselves for the 'good' of the company ?
                                                  
     What are the rumours, anyway ? Before you go off the net...
          
    Winton

    
    Yup, that was me.  And yes, I still feel charged about the new
    management.  That has little to do with the 'spy vs. spy' mentality
    shrouding this sale.  I know that time was a big player in all of this,
    but it would have made life *so* much easier, if some of the employee
    related issues (insurance, premiums, deductables, METPAY, etc) were
    disclosed early, instead of the day *after* the passing of the check.
    
    Someone sent me an article yesterday, and the last paragraph sums up a
    lot for me ...
    
     .... Imagine, the man said, being a small boy taken for a walk by your
     father.  He takes you to a stranger's house and says, "This is where 
     you'll live from now on.  Don't worry.  It's an equivalent house, and 
     he's an equally good father.  Goodbye ...."

     That's about the size of it.  We're in the process now of taking down
    all these 'digital' logos around the site.  I know these things need to
    be done, but it's almost like going through a divorce.  And I don't
    trust that the lawyers and negotiators have 'looked out for my best
    interest'.  Even though 'I still have a job', it's not a blanket
    benefit.
    
    But, in all fairness, I could be pleasantly surprised in the next few
    days.  We can't help but expect the worse - that's what DEC has taught
    (and shown) us.
    
    Jerry

    This is the note I referenced earlier (thanks for sending it, you know
    who you are !  8^).  It may be interesting reading for some ...
    
    
[headers deleted]

Subj:	IBM Article

                               Culture Shock
                              ---------------
                  Story of an IBM Unit That Split Off Shows
                           Difficulties of Change
                           ----------------------
                  Lexmark Officials Felt Adrift After Buy-Out 
                         but Pared Red Tape--and Payroll
                           --------------------------
                        A Hint of Big Blue's Problems
                          --------------------------
                             By Paul B. Carroll
                 The Wall Street Journal*Thursday, July 23, l992


          When 15 new owners and managers of a $1.8 billion office-machines
     company assembled on a rainy day in April l991, they faced a question
     already reverberating in larger context: Can anyone change Inter-
     national Business Machines Corp.'s creaky management style?  
          The top executives of Lexmark International Inc. were holding 
     their tiny headquarters across from the railroad station in Greenwich,
     Conn., they were worried.  It was the first time the group of 
     ex-IBMers had been without IBM's marketing clout and financial safety
     net.
          "We all looked at each other and said, `Does anybody have any
     confidence at all in the plan we all just signed up for?'  Nobody 
     did," recalls Bob Murphy, a marketing executive.

     Change Difficult
          Their qualms show how hard change can be for people accustomed to 
     a culture such as IBM's.  And they suggest that change will be much 
     harder for IBM itself, which is 35 times Lexmark's size.  After all,
     IBM isn't facing the pressures that Lexmark is - the trauma from being
     sold to an investment firm and the personal financial risks hanging
     over its people.     

          In some cases, changing from IBM ways seemed simple.  When John 
     Trisler, manager of Lexmark's typewriter operations, asked a group of
     workers to redesign their assembly line, they produced one that takes
     just an hour and 15 minutes to make a typewriter - down from more than
     eight hours under IBM.  When a line worker needs more parts, he picks 
     up the phone and orders them; Lexmark managers say that wouldn't have
     hapened at IBM, where everything goes through a huge purchasing depart-
     ment.  Mr. Trisler now shares financial results with his employees.
     Would he have done that two years ago?  "No way, " he says.  "I tell 
     you what, two years ago I wouldn't have been able to see those 
     numbers."

          But Lexmark's biggest change was to drop IBM's hallowed 
     "contention" system.  Under it, staffers with different goals battle 
     for months, reassuring IBM because the resulting decision usually is
     sound.  But, especially lately, the fights have put IBM months behind
     rivals in markets where a product may last only a year.

     Corporate Staffs Wiped Out
          Lexmark ended "contention" by wiping out just about all the 
     corporate staffs that used to do battle.  Led by Marvin Mann, a former
     IBM vice president who became Lexmark's cheif executive, and with 
     guidance from its new owner, Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, the executive
     team also tried to keep midlevel managers out of mischief by giving 
     them so much to do that they had to ease up on the controls.  The
     organization was flattened so much that an assembly-line worker is  
     only four levels below Mr. Mann.  That worker was eight or nine levels
     below Mr. Mann when he ran the business for IBM, and Mr. Mann himself
     was at least four levels below IBM's chief executive.
   
          But just as Russia is finding it tough to turn lifelong  
     socialists into entrepreneurs, IBMers and ex-IBMers are finding it
     takes time to undo decades of indoctrination in IBM's deliberate 
     culture.  Pushing the new thinking, Roger Hopwood, Lexmark's manager
     of laser-printer production, "asked a guy his opinion, and the guy 
     said he didn't know," recounts Paul Curlander, general manager of the 
     printer business.  "Roger said, `Fine, but I'm going to have these 
     meetings every week, so I'll ask you again next week.'... We had to pull 
     a couple of people aside and say, `Get with the program, or you'll be
     replaced.'" 

          Mr. Curlander adds that when someone tried to cram extra features
     into a new printer and the project flopped, management's "first 
     inclination was to figure out, 'Who's responsible?  Whom do we 
     shoot?'"  Mr. Curlander didn't shoot anyone.  Now, he can cite an 
     example when telling people they won't be penalized for taking 
     chances.
   
     Listening to Workers
          Mr. Hopwood, presented with what ordinarily would have been a 
     completed plan for a new laser-printer assembly line, told the line 
     workers that they, not he, would sign the requisition form - and 
     shouldn't if they weren't completely happy.  They weren't.  So he
     let them beat up on the industrial engineers for another couple of
     weeks until they were.

          In another incident, Mr. Hopwood, asked to sign for a $26,000
     purchase of ionizing equipment, told the worker that he trusted his
     judgment.  The man rubbed his chin thoughtfully and left.  A little
     later, he returned to say he had decided he needed only $6,000 of 
     equipment.  "If I'd challenged him, he would have said, `Oh, yeah,
     I need the $26,000,' and he could have proved it to me," Mr. Hopwood
     says.

          Lexmark's managers also made some symbolic changes.  Its 
     operations still look to an outsider like any at IBM, but employees
     noted the new atmosphere once Fridays were declared "dress-down days,"
     when all the blue-suited IMBers-at-heart had to take off their 
     neckties.  "I kind of walked in here without a tie that first day and
     felt ashamed," says Steve Olson, an engineer.  "I thought, `Well, 
     I'll just sit in my office for a while, and maybe nobody will come 
     by.'  It was actually hard."  Mr. Mann, the chief executive, won lots 
     of points among workers when he showed up at a Friday meeting wearing
     a jacket and tie and, realizing his error, took them off.

          Achim Knust, the chief financial officer and one of the few non-
     IBMers in senior management, couldn't stand their habit of coming
     overprepared to a meeting with stacks of charts; so, he banned charts
     from his office.  Some ex-IBMers acknowledge that there are still too
     many presentations, but they say the number is dropping.

          Richard Flaherty, manager of the supplies operation, says he used 
     to make "thousands of foils at IBM to get 20 that the VP would show"
     at the corporate strategy session.  The preparation would start in 
     November, the big presentation would be in March, and "it'd be 
     obsolete by April 1," he says.  Greg Survant, a manager in printer
     development, says that if asked how he's doing, he just pulls out a 
     one-chart presentation; in the past, he might have spent a week 
     preparing one.

     Forms Weeded Out
          Lexmark also went through file cabinets, throwing out drawers 
     and drawers of forms that it didn't need, and it re-evaluated what had
     to be on those remaining.  Mr. Survant says the information required
     to justify an engineering change was cut to 24 items from 58.  And when 
     the engineers investigated who had needed all that information anyway,
     "you couldn't even find anyone who knew," he says.  "That's the crazy
     thing.  Nobody even remembered."
          The real key, though, appears to have been that management 
     continually demonstrated its commitment to change - something not always 
     apparent at IBM, where even strong commitments at senior levels get 
     diluted as the messages pass through the bureaucracy and where middle 
     managers march to their own drum.

          The changes have let Lexmark get by with about 4,000 employees, 
     down from some 6,000 when IBM ran the business.  Yet, with 100 fewer 
     developers, Lexmark has about twice as many printers under development as
     it did when part of IBM.

          Development times are dropping, too.  One printer project with a 
     third the people of its predecessor is expected to take about two years, 
     down from three years for a similar project under IBM.  "At IBM, I'll 
     bet we burned six months on each product making changes to get people to 
     agree," says Bill Kroeger, a lab manager.  A clearcut opportunity for a 
     cheap printer, for instance, might be delayed until mainframe executives 
     got some work done on a big printer usable with their systems.  

          In addition, people are taking more of the chances needed to stay 
     up with fast moving competitors.  Someone working on his own in the 
     second half of l990, for instance, thought he had found a way to make a 
     low-end laser printer produce a resolution of 600 dots per inch - 
     surpassing rivals with 300-dots-per inch printers.  Beginning work before 
     Lexmark was sold, he was cautious at first.  But he told his managers 
     about the work that fall and, finding a few people to help, made progress.
     By spring, he induced management to bet on the technology, even though the 
     product would have to be reworked - and a failure would delay it several 
     months.  The bet paid off, and the product's introduction last fall was a 
     bit of a coup.

          Defects have dropped as much as 90% in many areas, even in slowly 
     changing processes such as making keyboards and typewriters.  By last 
     fall, Mr. Knust, the chief financial officer, sensed that things were 
     going well, though none of his cautious analysts would admit it.  So, he 
     began doing some analysis on his own and realized that Lexmark was, in 
     some ways a year or two ahead of schedule.	

          The company ended l991 owing just $900 million, $300 million less 
     than expected.  Revenue was about 5% below plan in the fiscal nine months 
     ended Dec. 31, but operating profit topped it by 30%.  Because of its 
     heavy debt, the company, like most LBOs at first, posted a loss, but one 
     much smaller than expected.  To celebrate, Lexmark distributed an extra 
     2 1/2 weeks' pay to its U.S. employees in May.

           "We're very happy," says Don Gogel, a partner in Clayton, 
     Dubilier & Rice.  "That's not to say that there's not still a lot to do."  
     Though admiring IBM, he also says that "if it took us a couple of years to 
     change, you have to draw the conclusion that it'll take much longer at 
     IBM."          

     Pain Ahead for IBM
          An IBM spokesman says the company's moves to decentralize are 
     making good progress, but the events leading up to the Lexmark sale bear 
     out Mr. Gogel's observations.  For decades, IBM made its Selectric 
     typewriter in the Lexington, KY., horse-breeding country.  But when the 
     Selectric began fading in the l970s, IBM was slow to find a new product to 
     keep the plant going.

          In the early l980s, IBM said it would solve Lexington's problems 
     by spending $350 million to automate the plant, especially its production 
     of computer printers.  Steve Jobs, the co-founder of Apple Computer Inc., 
     visited the plant and was amazed at the automation but said, "They're 
     building the wrong printer."  They were.  Apple, Hewlett-Packard Co. and 
     others had realized that the world wanted laser printers, which were 
     faster, quieter and more versatile.  Hewlett-Packard claimed the market, 
     Apple became a distant second, and IBM was nowhere.

          Employment in Lexington fell steadily, and rumors had it that the 
     plant would be closed or sold to the Japanese.  IBM's relations with 
     employees became strained, and some sued over terms of their buyouts.  
     T-shirts showed up around town that had the IBM logo running vertically 
     but reading horizontally, "I've Been Misled."

          Following a disastrous l989 for the whole company, IBM began 
     quietly negotiating to sell its Lexington operation, plus the rest of its 
     laser-printer, typewriter and office-supplies businesses.  True to its 
     benevolent tradition, it selected Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, an LBO firm 
     known for trying to improve management of a business rather than slashing 
     and burning to repay the debt as fast as possible.
   
          But IBM's bureaucracy kept getting in the way.  An IBM senior 
     executive might agree to something with Clayton, Dubilier & Rice, but when 
     it came time to hammer out the contracts, some staffer would balk - 
     "nonconcur," in IBM parlance.  Because that staffer reported to a 
     different senior executive, a formal "escalation" process would be needed.
     Days or weeks later, IBM'S five-person management committee might have to 
     get involved.  IBM Chairman John F. Akers would have to ratify decisions 
     on things such as whether the new compnay would pay its bills in 15 days 
     or 30.

     Another Escalation
          A couple of times, a Clayton, Dubilier & Rice partner found 
     himself leaning across the bargaining table, shouting at a lawyer such 
     things as: "You don't understand.  If you don't give us that intellectual 
     property right [that a senior executive promised], we will not write John 
     Akers a check vfor $1.58 billion, and he will not be happy with you."  
     Unmoved, the lawyer would say he didn't report to that senior executive.  
     An escalation would start.

          Mr. Gogel, the partner, says the deal couldn't have happened if 
     Mr. Akers hadn't stayed on top of it.  He says Mr. Akers would sometimes 
     go six levels down in his organization to intervene.  After the agreement
     was concluded, Mr. Gogel had a board game called "Nonconcur" made up, and
     he gave out 350 copies to the people involved, including an amused 
     Mr. Akers.

          When the sales was announced, in August l990, Mr. Akers decided to 
     face the 5,000 employees.  He and Martin Dubilier of Clayton, Dubilier & 
     Rice, who was dying of cancer, spent half an hour describing the deal and 
     answering questions on a hastily erected stage inside a warehouse.

          The mood was quiet.  Some employees say they were relieved that 
     the uncertainty was over; at least, the plant wouldn't be closed.  
     However, many say they felt as though IBM was divorcing them.  IBM 
     talked a lot about how little would change, but Robert Burdick, who works 
     in laser-printer development, says a co-worker summed up a lot of people's 
     feelings.

          Imagine, the man said, being a small boy taken for a walk by your
     father.  He takes you to a stranger's house and says, "This is where 
     you'll live from now on.  Don't worry.  It's an equivalent house, and 
     he's an equally good father.  Goodbye."

	Well, I guess this will be our last day as DEC employees, provided
	they use the same pen they used a few weeks back.  

	You know what this sale makes one feel like ?  Like a used car that 
	the owner can't *wait* to unload.  I figured that *some* DEC big 
	wheel would be here to 'pass the baton' to the new owners.  Nope.
	But, we're still employed, and as cold as that is beginning to 
	sound, it's reality.  I also see flashbacks of the old Chuck 
	Connors western "Branded" ... 8^)

	We've got meetings set up on Wednesday and Thursday to meet with 
	the corporate AMP-Akzo folks, to discuss the company and benefits.
	In our memo we were reminded that we are still in backlog, and 
	though we have personal business to take care of, we must not 
	forget about our product and quality deliverables.  My personal
	life (and that of my wife, she works here too) has been 'on hold' for
	over 2 years, waiting to see what DEC was going to do here.  Let
	me get a firm understanding of my benefits, and my future here at 
	SCC, and I'll break my back for ya.  This plant doesn't need any 
	help lowering morale.  We will also be issued temporary badges 
	tomorrow.  The first day of school is always stressful, even if 
	it's the same school you've been at for 9 years ....

	Don't get me wrong, this sale is a blessing to us, but it dredges
	up feelings that most folks can't imagine.  It will be nice working 
	for a *profitable* company for a change.
	
	If anyone wants to keep in touch with any of us, we'll be at our 
	current address for a while.

    	I wish you DEC folks a lot of luck.  If the way this plant sale was
        handled is represenative of the 'new' Digital, then you will
        surely need it. This isn't your father's Digital.  Bottom line,
        we're employed - we'll get over it.

	Jerry White (asset tag #156247 - expensed, as of 26-AUG-1992 00:00:01)
                                           

    
    re. 245
    
    Good luck Jerry and the rest of the GSOers,
    
    
    Hope your new management is up-front and honest with you. It seems
    little to ask in these times, but hard to get.
    
    
    ed (still not giving up on DEC)
    
    

    good luck Scary and all you other GSO guitar players. We'll certainly
    miss you and your 'road stories' in GUITAR notes. 
    
    - Dave

    Yeah, I've heard that there *is* life after NOTES ... we'll see.  8^)
    
    The *sale* was *supposed* to be final at noon today ... no 'official'
    word yet though ... guess I better go watch MTV news, huh ?  8^)
    
    
    Jerry

    Not sure of the exact time, but THE DEAL HAS GONE THROUGH !!!   8^)
    
    I was just handed some AMP+AKZO literature, which includes a letter
    from the President and CEO welcoming Greenville.  I'm *sure* DEC will
    have *something* stapled to our last checkstub, thanking us for
    sweating it out all these years.  Yeah, right. 
    
    Regardless of that, DEC at GSO is history - tomorrow marks a new
    beginning.  So, stay tuned ... the worlds best PWB's will soon bear the
    AMP+AKZO brand.
    
    Jerry (deleting HUMANE::DIGITAL from his notebook ...)

    
    	At least the President and CEO will visit Greenville...unlike other
    folks that I know of!
    
       	It's been fun!  We're Amp's now...not so bad a feeling! I;ll get
    use to it..don't have a choice!
    
    Take care gang! and happy noting!
    
    B.A.	

	... plant in the South for DEC!  We kept hoping for more, but all we 
got was ALF!

	Wish there was a way to keep y'all on the net as noters, but Area 33
will appreciate the extra node slots!  :>) :>) 

	Ciao!