Conference 7.286::digital

    I think it's a *wonderful* idea... and one that I'd seriously consider
    in 1992 if my hope for going to law school becomes reality.  Last
    year, I took off 9 months under LOA to knock off 38 hours of
    undergraduate work.  It wasn't covered under "standard" LOA education
    rules but my manager together with his manager and the personnel
    representative cooked up a means to string together three personal
    leaves, each 3 months.  
    
    What LOA gives you is medical insurance and ability to come back.
    With the no rehire policy, this is the most important benefit. 
    I wasn't guaranteed a job, but neither was I denied one when I came
    back.
    
    Terrific idea!
    
    Marge

    Since several people have spoken negatively of various Digital
    "benefits" as not altruistic. Let's do the same thing with the IBM
    3-year "once in a lifetime" offer. Personally, I think it's a good
    idea, but it has advantages to IBM as well. 
    
    1. The person may not come back. The longer the period off, the less
    likely a return. If IBM is trying to cut expenses, this is a very good
    way, since it incurs no animosity from the employee if he chooses not
    to come back. 
    
    2. Even if he chooses to come back, IBM still saved 3-year's salary.
    
    3. If a department is overstaffed, this unburdens the department,
    because IBM can insist that the return be made to some other
    department. The policy is kinder than a forced transfer.

RE: .-1
    
    Well, if they're actually doing it to cut costs, then it sure is a more
    positive move than cutting people's pay (e.g. discontinuing the car
    plan) and cutting health benefits.  Perhaps what we're seeing is
    another of IBM's brilliant marketing tactics whereby they manage to
    take something very negative and make it look like the greatest thing
    since sliced bread.  Whatever their motivation, they've certainly risen
    a notch or two in my opinion because of this announcement.
    
    							Pat
    
    BTW, in addition to the LOA provision, there were other things such as
    flex hours for jobs that normally don't qualify for it and a couple of
    others I don't remember. 

    the  3 year LOA at IBM is probably one way for IBM to get rid of
    some of the employee from the 4 facilities that it is closing. IBM
    like Digital has a no lay off policy
    
    IBM field employees do not have company cars they get a flat rate
    of .14 per mile for use of their personal car.
    
    And their CEs  don't get paid any stand by pay for being on call
    after hours they are expected to be available to take after hours
    calls.

    It is always necessary to cut out the chaf from any announcement,
    this one included.
    
    I seem to recall another detrimental side to this new IBM plan.
    I believe that if an employee returns early, IBM can reduce the
    employees position in the company (like a demotion).
    
    Like most everything else, this new plan has its good and bad points.

    Doug

    RE: .4
    
    DEC doesn't have a "no layoff" policy.  It's true that no one's
    ever been laid off, but that's not the result of a policy that's
    written down anywhere.
    
    
    MATT

    It's true there is no official, written-down, no-layoff policy.
    However, the view has been strongly expressed by Kenneth H. Olsen that
    layoffs are a management failure, and that there are several things
    that should happen to prevent layoffs, such as hiring freezes done
    sufficiently early. 
    
    The philosophy comes from Ken himself and has been explicitly stated
    several times. It's very hard to distinguish between corporate policy
    and the personal philosophy of the founder and CEO. If Ken's opinion
    changed, then I'm sure the official policy wouldn't be far behind. 

    This is one major reason that many in the company (myself included)
    hope that Ken never retires.
    
    I would hate to see the unofficial no-layoff policy go the way
    of Car Plan A and other "unofficial benefits" due to a "bean-counterish"
    or weaker CEO.

    Doug

Digital most certainly does not have a no-layoff policy.

IBM most certainly does and it's in writing.  When Boca Rotan closed
IBM offered relocation to 4,000 employees at all levels.

Digital has an informal practice of not laying off workers.

re:< Note 635.9 by SDSVAX::SWEENEY "Patrick Sweeney" >
> Who has a no-layoff policy? >-

>Digital most certainly does not have a no-layoff policy.

Well, all that's left, after all the shoutin' and hollerin', is to see it
in writing.  Where IS it in writing that they DO have one?  Where IS it in
writing that they DON'T ?

/harv

re: .0
    
>    I personally know of one top-performing Digital employee who asked for
>    a one-year leave to go back to school fulltime and was categorically
>    denied

   I'm sure Pat wasn't implying this, but let's keep in mind that a decision
   such as the above was *NOT* a decision made by Digital Equipment Corporation
   but rather by a particular group of managers. I for one, and I'm sure
   others, can cite plenty of instances where employees have been granted
   non-standard unpaid leaves for a variety of purposes because the employee's
   management felt they were justifiable.

   -Jack

    re: .9, .10 (layoffs)
    
    I seem to remember a KO video where Ken said something like, `..not
    a policy, but we have a tradition of no layoffs' or something like
    that. The key word is "Tradition". Frankly, I think that the first
    layoff of a DEC employe will be the omen of an exodus. Security
    is ALL that is keeping me here right now after ten years. Once the
    security is gone, DEC is no better a place to work than the
    competition. 

	Digital also had a tradition of never cancelling the company car
	program nationwide.  We know where that tradition got us.
	
	One of the key points of my letter (note 565.367) was the breach
	of trust.  Few employees I have spoken with believe our
	traditions are alive anymore.  Most call this the "new DEC".
	First - company cars, second - health insurance, third - ???
	
	In order to restore this mutual trust and commitment, Digital
	_must_ do something (anything!) for the employees.
	
	harrY
	

RE: .11

  > I'm sure Pat wasn't implying this, but let's keep in mind that a
  > decision such as the above was *NOT* a decision made by Digital
  > Equipment Corporation but rather by a particular group of managers. 
    
    No, I didn't mean at all to imply that a DIGITAL policy decision was
    made to deny this guy's leave.  As a matter of fact, it was a decision
    of local management (at the Area level).  Their reason was that they
    would have to carry the headcount with the guy not there, which means
    that "slot" wouldn't be out peddling computers.  The reason they were
    able to deny the request is that Digital has no policy that explicitly
    covers a leave of that duration for educational purposes.  If we did,
    then management could no more deny it than they can deny a maternity
    leave. I believe IBM has implemented a formal policy covering such a
    leave. 
    
    							Pat
    
    P.S.  Thanks for making me aware of the possible mis-interpretation
    of my note!

	>Most call this the "new DEC".
	>First - company cars, second - health insurance, third - ???
	
	>In order to restore this mutual trust and commitment, Digital
	>_must_ do something (anything!) for the employees.
	
         
    They haven't cancelled the turkeys yet!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    - Ramani Mangu
    

    I'm planning on a baked ham this Christmas - why get let down AGAIN!?

RE: .15

Us  peeons in the field don't get TURKEYS we get to pay good money to attend 
a Holiday party so that we can ALL get to gether and get to know every one.
And the spouses can set around bored all evening.

    Re: .17
    
    AHH YESSS!!!
    
    I couldn't believe it when I received a mail message this week asking
    who wanted to go to the Christmas party and soliciting a set cost
    for said party...
    
    In previous years it was a mail message asking everyone to vote
    for Christmas party or Turkey gift certificates...
    
    Doug

    RE: .19
    
    
    Why not? In Denmark we get a duck and a few bottles of wine every
    Christmas. (Duck is the traditional Christmas Eve meal here.)
    Admittedly, being an American I would prefer it if DEC gave me
    a turkey, but I'll settle for a DEC duck.
                                       
    Regards,
    
    Geoff
    
    P.S. A few years ago my cat got ahold of the DEC duck and got a
         duck bone lodged in his throat. Thus, my DEC duck ended up
         costing me $140 in Vet fees... 
                                         

I've never heard of any other company giving away turkeys at Christmas.

/john

        I have heard of other companies giving turkeys for Christmas.
         Or hams. Can't remember any names right now though. Of course,
        still more companies just give money (sometimes alot).

                       Alfred

    If the company continues its trend toward cutting costs, perhaps
    the turkey tickets will be replaced with chicken chits.

    re .21 - I worked at Varian (Lithography Products Division) in
    Gloucester, MA for five years and got a turkey each November.  Of
    course, I was ultimately laid off.
    
    /dr
    
    

    I think the whole point of this issue is that our employer has set
    certain expectations.  These include the annual turkey, a flexible
    car plan, and a comprehensive set of benefits.
    
    When, after decades of these actions the company begins to cut back
    on these items, and the company is no where near in trouble, what
    are we expected to think?
    
    I remember that at one time DEC was so bad off that it froze (or
    did it also cut-back) on wages for employees instead of laying people
    off (yes, I know it's in another note, but it's related).  Did the
    company get rid of the car plan, the turkeys, or reduce benefits
    at that time?  *NO*.  So why now?
    
    Doug

       
       
       	So why now? Oh for one, the cost of medical care has doubled since
       the "Big Freeze".. 
       
       	I think I'd rather have the wine than the turkey.. But this is the
       	U.S. and we don't do alcohol. I still have my DECturkey on ice in
       the freezer from last year!
       
       							mike

    So perhaps there's a clue to what's happening here.

    When the company froze wages (delayed increases for six months) several
    years ago that was a corporate wide decision which affected everybody.
    That's the case with the increases in the health care costs, too - hits
    each and every one of us, at least in DEC US.

    Apparently turkeys aren't a corporate bennie - the folks in the field
    don't get 'em. Neither do they get a day a Canobie Lake (nor do the
    folks outside of New England.) But then, we back here never had company
    cars to begin with so that cutback didn't affect us! Neither do we get
    an opportunity to enjoy Excellence ceremonies or DECathlons.

    Let's keep the discussion to purely corporate wide bennies.

    -Jack

    PS. Geoff - DEC ducks! I love it. I wonder if they're related to the
        DEC ducks at MK?

    re: .21--My father's company (Stuart-Sauter, trade shows and
    conventions, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Las Vegas) gave away
    turkeys for Christmas.  The company has been absorbed into a
    conglomerate since then, so I don't know the current policy.
    However, I think giving away turkeys at Christmas is a fairly
    widespread tradition in the U.S.
        John Sauter 

    re: .12
    
    I agree that the security here at DEC is of major importance. However,
    if you think that it is the only thing that DEC has over other
    companies as being a good place to work, I couldn't disagree more.
    From personal experience I can state that after a significant portion
    of time spent at DEC, one seems to forget how other companies are.
    I did. I started at DEC in '76 and after 8 and 1/2 years left. In
    the 3+ years I spent at two other companies I came to appreciate
    just what DEC is all about. I understand and share people's concerns
    over changes, but the underlying attitude of DEC toward employees
    is extrememly unique. There may be a handfull of other companies
    out there that as good, but there are a whole lot that are a lot
    worse.
    

Re:    < Note 635.21 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >

>I've never heard of any other company giving away turkeys at Christmas.

    ...So does this mean that the goal is to arrive at the Lowest Common
    Denominator???  I thought we wanted to be the best!
    (It should go without saying that we cannot be the best company
    without satisfied employees)
    
    Kevin

    Do you think that as a result of JEC the field people could be raised
    to a Rock Cornish Game Hen distribution and the IN-DEC people reduced
    to it?
    

    I worked for Hewlett-Packard for 5 years in the early 80's. (I guess
    this is the late 80's...sigh). H-P has a traditional "no-layoff"
    policy. BUT, for a 12 month period (+ or - 2, I forget exactly),
    all salaried employees received a 5% cut, and manufacturing employees
    were cut to a 4 day work week. These cuts were taken off when business
    got better, but, for that period raises etc., were lost forever.
    However, that's the way business goes when you deal with Wall Street
    and have a quarter to quarter mentality.

    Consider the GEEP (Graduate Engineering Education Program) benefits
    
    It has some strict requirements, but quite generous benefits.
    
    /s/ Jim Williams