Conference 7.286::digital

	... the seller is "gouging". Look at the detail listing and see if
it is "Excess Inventory", or "Return Auth."  This type of equipment is NOT
capitalized, and technically hasn't been sold. "RA"'s are permitted a
discount, due to the used nature of the equipment.

	I think this means that unless we are willing to take a write-off
on this equipment, ie, an auditable accounting action, it has to keep a
"Standard Price".

	Not to say that SOME folks aren't capable of gouging, of course,
and depend on uninformed buyers to make them successful at it!

	FWIW

    re:.1
    NOT taking a write-off is to cause the "books" to be fictitious, in
    practice at least.
    
    DIAL has a heap of old Shackmates, 286s and the like, from the late
    1980s, listed at higher prices than transfer on new 486 PCs.  The
    street value of the Tandys is in the $100/box range, but DIAL customers
    are asked to transfer over $1k.  This is just typical; many obsolete
    products are listed at historical prices. 
    
    It is gouging if they expect anyone to pay it.  In practice, much of
    this is headed for the crusher.  Presumably the seller expects that
    internal buyers, cut off from IEG for years, will take this overpriced
    scrap metal as an alternative to nothing.

    
    To answer the question to .0 , the answer is probrably/YES. Within the
    ECAD thru Manufacturing process, The bottom line is to NOT have a
    negative variance. Breakeven and or a positive variance is the goal.
    Most if not all of the (funny)money is attained via the cross charging
    of internal cost centers and or internal charge numbers. Thus, some of
    us are making money while some of us are break even and then you have
    some of us that run a negative variance.
    

	So the end result is that all this excess equipment will set on dial
for a few months and then be sent to the shreader/salvage. Some dealer will 
buy it at pennies a pound and make a killing. All of this is happening while
internal Digital groups are running on out-dated equipment. To make things
even worse INDEC has sent memos out saying that they will no longer service
various devices, except at per-call rates.....

Renis 

Imagine the scenario within a family home...

Jim: Honey, I'll wash the dishes for $4.00.

Pam: I washed your clothes yesterday for $2.50, did you JV me the money?

Jim: Not yet. Let's make that a JV to me for $1.50.

Timmy: Mom, those popcicles are yucky- they've been there for 5 months!

Pam: Timmy, you know the transfer cost of of those popsicles is 50 cents,
     so I will just JV from you however many you take.

Timmy: I don't want to pay 50 cents for them, they taste like garlic!

Pam: I can't order more until those are gone.

Jim: Tim, maybe if you can give mom some expense relief she can order
     some new ones.

Timmy: Mom hasn't JV'd me for sweeping out the garage yet.

Pam: I can't JV you the money for that until your dad JV's me for the
     clothes washing.

Jim: I'm going to wait until the dishes are done to JV anything.

Pam: We will have to meet to see if-

Anne: (Yelling) THIS FAMILY IS DISFUNCTIONAL AND CORRUPT! YOU ALL SIT
        AROUND ARGUING ABOUT WHO DIDN'T GET WHAT FROM WHOM OR WHO GAVE
        SOMBODY ELSE TOO LITTLE OR TOO MUCH OR... OR.... GRRR!



Now I know that DEClife is far different from family life, but what we
have now amounts to disfunctionalisim- we send an incredible amount of
time focused on within instead of focusing on meeting/filling customer
needs. We have been doing it for so long it has become ingrained; we find
it atypical to perform without some kind of procedure or restriction.



A question for those of you in the field:

        Assign percentage values to the following:

          Time spent directly or indirectly servicing/meeting customer
          needs_______

          Time spent involved with administrative or internal methods,
          systems and procedures that DO NOT visibly improve service
          or customer needs_______

Lee

Note 2675.5 by CSOADM::ROTH 
    

        >Assign percentage values to the following:

        >  Time spent directly or indirectly servicing/meeting customer
        >  needs_______

         > Time spent involved with administrative or internal methods,
         > systems and procedures that DO NOT visibly improve service
         > or customer needs_______

    this has really gotten out of hand and is the crux of the problem i am
    grappling with right now. i've got hard data on these two questions.
    for me personally over the years time spent on customer needs (let's 
    forget about vacations, holidays, and sick time) has been 90-95%. after
    our most recent organization, and as near as i can figure it out, that
    number would have to drop to 75% or less if i perform all the internal
    admin work i'm being asked to do. and i am NOT kidding. and i AM
    working with my management to try and "fix" this but it's a HUGE
    problem.

    Well said, Lee!!
    
    I'm behind you, Gene!
    

    Lee,
    
    I laughed, 'til I cried.....
    
    Karen
    

      DITTO      M[]

          Time spent directly or indirectly servicing/meeting customer
          needs_______ 95+%

          Time spent involved with administrative or internal methods,
          systems and procedures that DO NOT visibly improve service
          or customer needs_______ 5-%

    
    To .5 and above,
    
    	Where are our marketeers ? Surveys of this type are a joke ! 
    I can see the need to ask this type of question but directly/indirectly
    servicing/meeting ???  Anyone in a direct customer contact position can
    answer this with some seemingly "strong" numbers but when asked more
    definitively, the numbers will surely drop off. Most of the "added"
    administrivia is related to "hard" data that will reflect overall the 
    effectiveness of staffing and business direction in the current
    markets. 
    
    To .4 
    
    	Hadn't you heard yet ?  INDEC has been abolished. While most of the 
    internal personnel that were servicing your accounts remain in place,
    the region has merged in with the external U.S. area. 
    	As to per-call business, that is a good point and may be worthwhile
    as a note all by itself. Many other internal customers have been told that
    items can not be serviced unless they are on contract. This is nothing
    less than profit at the other cost centers expense. 
    
    Still smiling.......Dave
        	
               

    The prices internal organisations pay for MCS work are, at best,
    break even. Why does everyone want something for nothing? It costs
    MCS real $$$ to provide service. We're not getting much free these
    day, I can promise you that. Don't assume that just because it's
    DEC doing work for DEC that no cost is involved. External customers
    pay up to $200/hour for our services, plus parts. Internal folks
    pay way less, and in many smaller facilities get alot of labor free.

	I work for MCS support and know how the discounts work. The problem is that 
MCS in general and other field organizations have suffered for years to get 
equipment, when they do find something (most likely 100% discount) INDEC unit 
now says that all parts will be at per-call pricing. Like RA81/82 HDA's when 
they have reached EOL. The main intent of the memos that were sent, is to "Wake 
Up" cost center managers to the fact that this equipment is costing Digital more 
to use than its worth.

	Add to that fact that the building space, ie computer room  will need to 
be vacated in two months. I fully support the efforts to consolidate building 
space, costs, etc. We found out that the space we were using was costing our
cost center $25K a month. 

	So this week in between customer problems, I am trying to "downsize"
our groups computational equipment, write proposals, CARs, etc. Its about 
50-50 in time spent right now. But, added to that we need equipment that will
run OSF, NT, VMS, ULTRIX, etc. which is impossible to  do on microvax II's only.
 

Renis	

    .12,
    
    	Who said money for nothing ? Costs, most assuredly are a necessary
    part of the business. As to something for nothing, what about the costs
    of lighting, grounds, parking ...etc., these costs plus salaries are
    part of the occupancy charges borne by all cost centers at a particular
    location. 
    	The old IN-DEC simply followed the field model and created a
    discount rate that was based on the external pricing. Didn't you ever
    wonder why IN-DEC was a U.S. area business ? Or why the ONLY succesful 
    and sustained business was and is the VAX (PL31) business. Look at the 
    models, the desktop business (PL01)is nothing more than a spawned version
    of PL31.
    	As to the field doing work for internal business, ask your Unit 
    Manager to explain how the costs are distributed. Discounted from the 
    "real" dollars but credited to the service delivery unit at full cost.
    Ask an experienced manager how excess "funding" from INDEC was fed 
    bsck into the company (or into the field). 
    	No, I'm sorry, what we have today is a sham and until we get it 
    TOGETHER we will continue to eat away at ourselves cost-wise. INDEC had
    the right idea but suffered from a lack of MARKETING expertise to
    promote its mission. Services of any type for a company this size
    should be provided by ONE organization. We spend BILLIONS on stupidity
    by allowing distributed organizations to re-invent the wheel on a daily
    basis. Instead of analyzing overall service needs for the DIGITAL
    EQUIPMENT CORPORATION channel we haggle over who will pay for what and
    when. 
    	And one last thing...."Internal folks pay way less....." If one
    person can provide 5 service calls per day in the office area and 
    help 5 people continue to be productive whether that persons labor is 
    "free" or not, the effort has more than likely increased the
    effectiveness of the corporation.