Conference 7.286::digital

    
    Since it sounds like you are going to shoot the messenger, would it not
    be prudent to call the 800- support line and find out what their process
    is ????
    
    just a thought
    
    bc

I believe you need to sell your customer part number

				QT-001a9-6Z

VTX PRICE lists this as

 SOFTWARE        PRICES AS OF:  11-FEB-1993         THE U.S. SYSTEMS PRICE LIST
 
 Model           Product
 Number          Description                    List             Standard
        
 QT-001A9-6Z     VAX/VMS Add'l CSC Contact      2,400.00         N/A


Hope this helps

    As I recall, any employee who works for Digital can call the
    hotline for support.  You might be the last one to get called
    back, since customers may be waiting, but I've told them I'm
    at a customer site and gotten fairly quick support that way.
    
    Elaine

It is common practice for Customer Services to hire an outside consultant
to fulfill a consulting project.  This person is not a Digital Employee
but has been sold to a customer as if they were a Digital Employee.

I find this an interesting question and would appreciate an answer also.
At customers that I support in this situation, I have entered Notes and 
contacted CSC for them.  This practice could get painful as my free time
shrinks below the copius spare minute I have now.

Larry

The Customer Support Center has recently instituted new procedures
for persons without software licenses and access numbers, and as
far as I know they (800-354-9000) will be the only definitive voice
on this subject for a while.

    
    
    if the consultant is on a digital contract (ie he/she is a
    subcontractor to us) they may be able to call in on their dec
    colleagues badge. 
    
    Dunno if this is allowable or not, just that it happens sometimes.
    
    Simon

RE .1  At this point I was ready to shoot the messenger, they were the
       first ones I asked who gave me a number...  and so on...


RE .2  The customer is already paying for the consultant!


RE .3  The person is not a Digital employee.  We only sell him as one 
       to the customer.
 

RE .4  Bingo!


RE .5  You Got it too!


RE .6  I'd never give my badge to someone else, I'll place the initial
       call!  But my badge, NEVER!


I have received an answer from a kind soul who was forwarded my note.  There
is a form to fill out, and a cost center charge of $104/month for up to 15
products.  I will ask the person who sent me the form if I can post it here!

Thanks PARDNR::HATCH!!!!

- Mike

    

    
    
    If needed Penny Webb is the registration manager for the CSC.  Her
    group is responsible for the administration of the CSC database and
    entering the information you are inquiring about.  She is in CXO and
    the DTN is 592-5374. 
    
    Ken
    

    There is an easier way....
    
    If the customers system is under contract and is entitled to software
    and/or hardware support, that customer is provided an access #.  On
    this access #, the # of contact allowed for support is three.  If there
    are currently not three people listed, the consultant could call in
    unobstructed; however, the support (software that is) would be limited
    to those products that are currently under warrant/contract that have
    been registered under that access #.  This ONLY works if the customer
    is ENTITLED to phone support.  If the customer has 3 contacts listed,
    it would be up to the customer to change one of the contacts name to
    the consultants.
    
    If your customer doesn't have an access #, and he is currently under
    contract/warranty, call your Logistics Services Support Center,
    formerly Contract Admin. and they will provide the access #.
    
    Feel free to call me directly DTN: 360-3241, or, I'm on ODIXIE or @TLH.
    
    Hope this helps.......
    
    Best regards.....P
    
    

    re .LAST
    
    No the system/software is not under contract!  And after talking to the
    manager, it seems he does not even want to pay the $104/month.  Can't
    wait till a problem arises!
    
    - Mike
    

    
    As Digital is paying this "Consultant" to provide a service, why should
    they need assistance from Digital ? If they did, I believe we should
    charge them !
    
    

    Re:       <<< Note 2370.11 by NEURON::STAHLY "10$: BRB 10$" >>>
                -< What are we paying this consultant to do ? >-
    
    While I don't know the details of this particular consultant's role, it
    has been the practice in Professional Services to use external
    consultants to "plug the gaps" when there just plain aren't any Digital
    employees available and/or skilled to complete the assignment.  As
    others have pointed out, the external Consultants are sometimes sold to
    customers as if they were Digital employees.  If Digital is going to
    sell the consultant in this fashion, then the customer has the right to
    expect that this consultant will have the same resources available to
    them as any Digital consultant would.
    
    I may be wrong, but from your reply I almost get the feeling that you
    are saying "hey, Digital paid good money for this person, they should be
    able to do everything without any support."  Being a Digital consultant who
    has encountered many customers with that same unrealistic attitude, I can
    assure you, it is the person who knows when and where to get good help
    that brings the most value to our customers.
    

    
    This is a very interesting problem.
    
    The equipment is not under service - unpaid demo, perhaps?
    
    So, PSS lays off staff, and has to go to external consultants to save
    money. So the external consultants can't hack it, and you have
    to pay for their telephone support, and next, training.
    
    Why not just hire the external consultants as employees ?  
    
    (The previous line should be read in a stinging, sarcastic tone
    reflecting the authors sharp disagreement with current PSS mgmt
    strategy)                                      

    .13> Why not just hire the external consultants as employees ?  
    Sometimes they do. ;')

    I approached this situation in a couple of the previously mentioned
    ways.  Once, as a long term system manager I was added to the
    service contract as a contact.  The second time I came in
    under my boss's badge to quickly obtain a sequence number
    for an issue I had.  That was probably the easiest call that
    SWS took.

    I had the misfortune of assisting a customer who's name was
    "Bob so-and-so".  They became a nuisance because the guy 
    obviously sold himself into a situation he didn't understand.
    As far as I could tell, the customer was legit.   I helped him
    out (saved his but because he was getting heat).  After he
    finally got everything going he told me he was gonna make a
    BP call and say nice things about me.  "Oh, by the way my
    names really Ron Somebody-else, Bob left... thanks, bye."

    Mike 
    Atlanta/CSC
  

    Well I agree that we are paying the consultant good money to work for
    us, but lets face it, we can't know everything!  Anyway, I also agree
    that it's not fair to use consultants and pay them more than twice our
    salary, but I don't make these decisions.  Anyway, the next reply
    contains the form for requesting CSC support, the author also wanted me
    to note that this price does change, so call for current pricing.
    
    - Mike
    

    Here is the reply I got...  
    
    Don't forget, price may change!

    
From:	BREAK::MILTON "Kathi Milton 237-3817 INDEC Digital Services SHR3-1/X13  12-Feb-1993 0851" 12-FEB-1993 09:14:05.64
To:	SUBWAY::CATANIA
CC:	MILTON
Subj:	fyi:  SPS Agreement for external 3rd Party Consultants


                                                                        

                CSC BACK-UP SUPPORT FOR THIRD PARTY CONSULTANTS


To get CSC Back-Up Support for Third Party Consultants, please have the 
responsible supervising Managers contact me, at @SHR, DTN 237-3817, 
or 508-841-3817.

I will register your consultant through the IN-DEC Digital Services 
organization.  The consultant will be provided support for up to 15 products 
for $104/month.  THIS AMOUNT WILL JVED TO YOUR COST CENTER.  Additional product 
support is available in increments of 10 products, for $100/month.

DSIN support is included with this agreement. 


After reviewing this document and you are interested in obtaining a 3rd party
SPS Agreement, please e-mail the completed document to me and please pay
special attention to page 6 of this document.

Thank you

Kathi 




      	                BASICsupport SPS AGREEMENT
   

                                   between


                           ORGANIZATION, DEPT NAME


                                    
      	                             
                                    and					       



      	 
                             IN-DEC DIGITAL SERVICES,

                           CUSTOMER SUPPORT CENTER (CSC)


                               










Prepared by:  Kathi Milton
              Account Support Representative
              Account Support Group
              IN-DEC Digital Services
              1992-1993 (fy93)






      	                      CONTENTS
                              --------


        SUMMARY................................................1

        Purpose................................................2

        CSC Responsibility.....................................2
            Coverage...........................................2 
            DSIN...............................................2
       

        Exclusions.............................................3

        Customer Responsibility................................3
            Monthly Review.....................................3
            Additions..........................................3
            Reassignments......................................4
            Terminations.......................................4
            Periodic Review....................................4
            Access Coverage....................................4

        Duration...............................................5

        Billing................................................5

        Other..................................................5

        Itemized Cost Breakdown................................6 



SUMMARY:
   
      IN-DEC Digital Services and the CSC Customer Support Center
      agrees to provide the user, ORGANIZATION & DEPT NAME, with 
      the services specified in this agreement under the terms 
      and conditions noted.


        




APPROVED BY:________________________________   DATE_____________________ 
    CCMgr :                            

    CC #  :         LOC CODE:          

    DTN   :                             
    A1 LOC:                            
    vaxNODE:                           

    MONTHLY CHARGE:   $104.00/mo. includes telephone support for 15 products.
                      additional charges will be incurred for, increments                                  
                      of 10 products @$100/mo                  

    START DATE:       to be established by each requesting Supervising
                      Manager/CC Manager, per contractor worker, per
                      contract.                  


APPROVED BY:__________________________          Date:______________
            IN-DEC SPS Business Manager
             (James Wengler)

            __________________________          Date:_____________
            SPS CSC Services Business Manager   
             (Robert Northrop)

           

      	                            -1-        

                           BASICsupport SPS AGREEMENT

Purpose:

     Under this Agreement, each of the NAME OF THE ORGANIZATION, is                
     entitled to telephone advisory remedial support through a Software
     Product Specialist at the Customer Support Center (CSC).  This      
     Agreement is specifically designed for external contract consultants      
     who represent Digital at customer sites throughout the United States.        
     In accordance with the terms and conditions set forth in this      
     Agreement, each ORGANIZATION & DEPART NAME can tailor the necessary 
     product support, and monitor the person authorized to use the CSC, through 
     an SPS Agreement.

CSC Responsibilities:

     The CSC will provide the following support under the terms and      
     conditions set forth in this Agreement:
   	 
     o  Coverage

        Telephone assistance from the CSC is available 24 hours a day,
   	seven days a week.  The customer upon identifying themself with
   	an assigned Access Number, and the problem, will automatically
   	be routed to the appropriate Service Delivery Group, for routing
        to the Software Product Specialist available or placed in a      
        call-back queue.

   o  Digital Software Information Network (DSIN)

   	DSIN enables customers to send and receive mail, interactively, to 
   	to the CSC.





   o   Customers can reach the CSC by dialing. 

     CSC/CS: (800) 354-9000  COLORADO  Application/high-end products,etc.  
                             GEORGIA        Office Products & Ultrix,etc.
                             MASSACHUSETTS System V,DECvoice,IBM based, 
                                                     

    	
           



 
    	   			     -2-                         
           			

Exclusions:

This contract does not provide:

    o  Media/Documentation Update Service 
    
    o  Software Upgrade Installation Service
    
    o  Upgrade Capacity Planning
    
    o  Software Performance Reporting
    
    o  Preventive Maintenance (periodic outbound calls)
    
    o  On-site critical remedial support
        
    o  Maximum support not to exceed one (1) CSC Contact Name
       per Agreement (CSC Contact Name refers to the Customer 
           Contact Name)

    o  Software Counsulting

Customer Responsibilities:

    The following are the customer responsibilities according to the terms 
    and conditions set forth under this Agreement:

    The customer is for the purpose of this agreement identifed as the 
    NAME OF ORG/DEPT., supervising Manager or Cost Center Manager.  The     
    first five items listed below outline the Manager's responsibilities.  
    The customer on the 6th & 7th item refers to the designated   external 
    contract consultant(s) who use the services provided by the agreement.

    IN-DEC recommends that if this proposal becomes an agreement, that all 
    concerned customers receive and maintain a copy of the agreement.  
    This copy is used for referencing features and responsibilites set 
    forth under this agreement.
   
   1.  Monthly Review

   The Cost Center Manager(s) are responsible for reviewing the BASIC SPS 
   Agreement on a monthly basis and maintaining an updated list of 
   contracted personnel using the CSC, and products support.  A copy of
   this SPS Agreement/contract is now available to the CC Manager thru
   VTX.  (In your VAXmail account type at the $ prompt, VTX IN_DEC.)

   2.  Additions-personnel

   Under this agreement, the Cost Center Manager(s) are expected 
   to notify the IN-DEC Region 72 hours in advance, in writing, of new 
   contract personnel who have privileges under this Agreement.  Written 
   notice may be sent via ALL-IN-1 or VAXmail.  Failure to notify the 
   IN-DEC Region of newly contracted personnel will prohibit their access 
   to the CSC, and may result in the cancellation of this Agreement.
    	   			    -3-


   3.   Reassignments-personnel

   In cases where a contractor is reassigned to another Region, or changes 
   Customers/telephone numbers, the Cost Center Manager(s) are expected to 
   provide 72 hours written notice so that the Agreement(s) involved can be 
   updated and the CSC notified.  Failure to notify the IN-DEC Region of 
   such reassignments may prohibit access to the CSC.                           
   
   4.  Terminations-personnel

   The Cost Center Manager(s) are expected to provide 72 hours written 
   notice, to the IN-DEC Region, of all terminated contract personnel.
   Electronic notification via ALL-IN-1 or VAXmail is acceptable. 

   In the case of an "escorted" termination, it is the Cost Center 
   Manager's responsibility to immediately notify the IN-DEC Region 
   Account Support Representative.  An electronic follow-up should 
   accompany all such requests via ALL-IN-1 or VAXmail. 
  
   Failure to notify the IN-DEC Region of terminated contract personnel, 
   may result in ongoing telephone support to ineligible person(s) or the 
   cancellation of this Agreement.

   5.   Periodic Review-products

   It is the customer's responsibility to periodically review the list of 
   products in use by their contract personnel.  Any changes should be made 
   accordingly.  Telephone support will only be provided for those  
   products listed on the Agreement.  Customers are expected to provide the 
   IN-DEC Region with 72 hours written notice regarding any additions or 
   deletions.  Failure to notify the IN-DEC Region of changes to products
   requiring software support may result in denial in services for those
   products not covered under this Agreement. 

   6.   Personnel (External contract Consultants & the CSC)

   The external consultant should expect to identifying themself with an
   assigned Access Number, and the problem statement.  Your call will 
   automatically be routed to the appropriate Service Delivery Group, 
   for routing to the Software Product Specialist available, or placed in 
   a call-back queue.

   7.   Access Coverage

   Access to the CSC for telephone advisory support is available 24 hours
   a day, seven days a week.

   Customers can reach the CSC by dialing:

                         CSC/CS:  (800) 354-9000    
                                                  
                                                    
                                     -4-

   
Duration:


   Service agreements become effective upon acceptance and written    
   authorization by the Cost Center Manager, and are automatically renewed      
   each fiscal year unless terminated by either party with 5 working days       
   written notice.  It is recommended upon requesting an agreement that 
   you indicate the duration of the agreement, and any change in the
   anticipated ending date of the agreement will require a minimum of
   5 working days written notification.  



Billing:


   Charges associated with service agreement(s) will be billed to the
   contracting cost center on a monthly basis by journal voucher.
   Please note that the FY93 rates are based on MLP (Maynard List Price).


Other:


   If either party neglects or fails to perform any of its obligations
   under this agreement, and such failure continues for a period of
   ninety (90) days after written notice thereof, the other party will
   have the right to terminate this agreement.




















                                   -5-



		  
     COST:                   BASIC  SUPPORT   

                         ITEMIZED BREAKDOWN OF COST

     QT-***AK-AA     BASIC telephone support                    $ 104.00
                     *** 001 = VMS
                     *** VEY = ULTRIX
	     
                 (15 Products) Telephone Support
             
                 CSC Contact Name/Telephone:
                   
            l. ______________ _______________  ___ ___ ____  _________
              Name            (company name)     (phone #)   (cpu type)                                                          
            
            Additional charges will be incurred if:            
            - You add additional product support, increments of 
              10 products @ $100/mo.                         
                  
To Request an Agreement:

	     Send VAXmail or A1 mail to:

	                        SENIOR::MILTON  or KATHI MILTON @SHR
                                DTN: 237-3817      (508)841-3817

Information required/needed:

BILL TO:                        SITE CONTACT:

CC #:
Outside Mailing Address         Same
Site Loc:
Dept Name:                      
CC MGR:                  supervising    Mgr:
Telephone#:                     Telephone  :
NODE NAME :                     NODE NAME  :
A1 ACCOUNT:                     A1 ACCOUNT :

LIST OF LAYERED PRODUCTS: (including UPI#)

Supervising  MANAGER NAME             :
CSC CONTACT NAME                      :   (1 PER CONTRACT)
COMPANY NAME OF ASSIGNMENT            :
TELEPHONE #                           :
SYSTEM/CPU TYPE                       :
START DATE/EFFECTIVE DATE OF AGREEMENT:
ENDING DATE OF AGREEMENT              :

                                    -6-    

    
    re: .12
    
    	I agree that we can't know everything, and sometimes(some more 
    	than others) need to contact another individual for assistance.
    
    	It would really come down to the terms of the contract with the
    	external consultant, and the terms of the contract with the
    	customer.
    
    	A warm body with a phone # to call for help is NOT the solution
    	Digital should be providing to the customer. Hopefully you can
    	understand my position on this subject. I apologize for my
    	blanket statement in .11
    
    

    Sorry, can't resist...
    
      Your remark in .-1 about "Giving the customer a warm body/phone # to
    call is not what DEC should be providing..."  made me realize that is
    *exactly* what is happening on-site with my customer... they are "in
    bed" with engineering, and they LOVE IT, since the aura of engineering
    is "all-knowing, all-seeing, etc" (to them)
       Also, (interstingly enough) this customer thinks the 800-CSC # is a
    JOKE! (as I was forcefully told yesterday) since you call them, they
    call you, don't know, so call again a day later, etc....
    
       So I thinks to myself... maybe they (being homo sapiens) want
    attention, and talking with engineering is just letting them talk
    directly to someone who listens and tries to directly solve their
    problem.
       Maybe we (DEC) need to re-think the 800 number?!?!  How does Aldus,
    Microsoft, HP, IBM do it???  I know from experience that Aldus makes
    you go through alot of menues, but you eventually get to a human who
    listens, logs in the prob, and tries to fix it then and there, or
    transfers you to the "local expert" right then. Everything I saw was
    aimed at fixing your problem *now*.
       Can we do that with our software/hardware set???
    
    Bruce Evans

    I would like to add one thing ... under NO situation should you give
    your badge number to anyone to call into the CSC for support.  We have
    had customers as well as contract employees attempt to get support from
    the CSC using someone else's badge.  Although it may seem like the
    easiest thing to do at the time, we can catch it and the individual
    will find themselves in some hot water as a result.  This pratice
    violates corporate security P&Ps.
    
    If you have a question about use of support at the CSC, you can call
    800-354-9000, dial "4" on the router and ask to talk to the "Manager on
    Duty" or MOD ... they can help you from there.  A MOD is available
    24x7.  We have managers on duty to resolve custoemr and internal issues
    with remote delivery of service.
    
    Chuck
    MID MOD (10pm to 6am MST) 
                                     

    RE .18
    
    I don't think our 800 support is a Joke!  I have had many a specialist
    help me out in the five years that I've been here.  Maybe it's because
    some of the products we produce are such junk, that even the CSC
    Specialist can't figure out.  I agree, somtimes the process is not
    perfect but not everything is.  So if you have a problem with the
    process, bring it up with people like .19.  I'm sure they are open to 
    new ideas, or will explain why certain things are done the way they
    are.
    
    As to 800 Support for consultants, I got an interesting call from
    someone in the CSC yesterday.  This person explained to me that if
    the consultant works for digital services, then they are automatically
    covered by CSC Support.  The Services manager need only call this
    person, give them some information, and they will get a temporary
    access number that will last as long as the contract.  If you would
    like this persons name and number, send mail at SUBWAY::CATANIA, and I
    will send it to you...
    
    - Mike
    

    
    Re: .18
    
    Regarding .18, if you or your customer is EVER
    dissatisfied with the support they are getting from the CSC, please
    be aware that escalating to the manager on duty is always an
    option.
    
    Blasting your fellow DEC employees in a public forum such as this
    does nothing to help increase the quality of support.  (Or to help
    us all work as a 'team'.  It is hard to work as a team when the
    members feel like they are under attack by their teammates.)
    
    Mary Jo Hoepner
    Colorado Springs CSC
    

    Re :
>>     <<< Note 2370.18 by GUIDUK::EVANS_BR "Bruce Evans, CASE Consultant" >>>
>>              -< a partial aside - people want to talk to people >-
>>
>>       Also, (interstingly enough) this customer thinks the 800-CSC # is a
>>    JOKE! (as I was forcefully told yesterday) since you call them, they
>>    call you, don't know, so call again a day later, etc....
>>    
    Why do I take this personal?  Maybe I have pride in my job!  Maybe I
    enjoy helping others.  I don't consider my job a joke.

    Bruce, I'm sure your customer hasn't had the best of response
    (especially as of late).  Still, as a representative of Digital, YOU
    are responsible to your customer, and Digital, to either adjust your
    customers perspective, or elevate a technical to the MOD at the CSC
    that you feel had the problem.

    Keep in mind, all the products that DIGITAL makes, and just about any
    other computer product (SOFTWARE or HARDWARE), we attempt to support.
    Quite a task for any company.

>>       Maybe we (DEC) need to re-think the 800 number?!?!  How does Aldus,
>>    Microsoft, HP, IBM do it???  I know from experience that Aldus makes
>>    you go through alot of menues, but you eventually get to a human who
>>    listens, logs in the prob, and tries to fix it then and there, or
>>    transfers you to the "local expert" right then. Everything I saw was
>>    aimed at fixing your problem *now*.
>>       Can we do that with our software/hardware set???
>>    
>>    Bruce Evans

    Bruce, funny you should mention that.  Since December, RDG and part of
    REMOTE SUPPORT and MISSION CRITICAL, have been doing just that.  I
    don't know about software, but I'm sure they are to follow, if they
    haven't already.

    Jim Morton

I have had to respond to customer complaints regarding CSC support a few times 
and I immediately contact the CSC's Customer Relations Manager and her 
organization. They diligently track down the issue and take steps to resolve 
it and prevent it from happening again.

We set alot of high expectations with our CSC support and undoubtedly we are 
not going to meet those expectations all of the time. How we respond when we 
make a mistake is key to our success.

As Tom peters once explained: He took a British Airway Flight to London from
the U.S. and they sent his luggage to Paris. BUT, they treated him so well
because of the mistake that he didn't really care where his luggage was!
He flies British Airways every time since then.

regards,

Jim

    re .23

    Jim is absolutly correct.  We do make mistakes, and I'm sure they are
    at the worse possible time, but we do try to fix it.  Please give us a
    chance.

    Another thing to be understanding about, is that we lost head count in
    hardware at the CSC, at the same time we took on more business.  This
    is adding to frustrations from CUSTOMERS (INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL).

    Please help us out, by letting us know where we stumble.  We'll do
    what we can under current guidelines to correct the problem.  Believe
    me it works.  If a customer logs a MOD call, our manager calls us in,
    and asks for a explaination, then determines what needs to happen.

    We do our best to SOLVE problems, not point fingers.

    Jim Morton

.22>As Tom peters once explained: He took a British Airway Flight to London
.22>from the U.S. and they sent his luggage to Paris. BUT, they treated him
.22>so well because of the mistake that he didn't really care where his
.22>luggage was!  He flies British Airways every time since then.

Treat him well? What CC would pay for this expense? Did they JV the cost?
If someone put this on their expenses, who would approve it?  Did they
have a meeting about the administrative ramifications of this unplanned
action?

Lee

    re: .18 and following replies
    
       Thanks for the information feedback (re: elevation, manager on duty,
    and that everything will be done to resolve the issue).
    
       I got e-mail from Mary Jo Hoepner, and indirectly from Cynthia
    Becker from Engineering that this has touched a real nerve. To all of
    you I sincerely apologize for unintentionally rubbing you the wrong
    way.
    
       As I indicated in my e-mail to Mary Jo, *I* do not think the CSC is
    a joke. A specific Boeing manager stated in a group meeting that the
    CSC was a joke. The situation we have here is that this group of Boeing
    engineers are working very closely via Cynthia and I with DEC
    Engineering and anything else (to them) is not as "meaningful" (my
    interpretation of their perception).
    
       I can only say, that the CSC has bailed my heiny out of many tough
    situations over the years, and I personally could not do my job without
    your collective support!!  This here customer, on the other hand...
    well I'll work on his perception, and see what we can do.
    
    Bruce Evans (who hasn't quit yet on getting the manager to rethink)

    re .26
    	Bruce, sorry if I came down hard on you.  I'm glad to see that you
    have seen value in the CSC's.  I'm also glad you haven't given up on
    the manager.

    Good Luck
    Jim Morton