Conference 7.286::digital

    Tis to laugh, or perhaps to cry...
    
    The best secretary I have encountered in all of my almost 15 years at
    Digital, was a temp at ZKO. This person was the epitome of being
    pro-active.
    
    An associate was visiting from overseas, and was due at a DEC sponsored
    conference in Chicago in a few days. The best the DEC organizers could
    do for him, was a hotem, about 25 miles from the conference hotel. I
    mentioned that we were expecting a call from these organizers, and
    wen't off for a short meeting with my associate. 25 minutes later, We
    returned, and my secretary, and contacted the conference hotel, pointed
    out that this person had travelled half way around the world, to
    attend, would be jetlagged, and managed to book him a suite at the
    hotel (at better rates than the DEC "organizers" we paying for a room).
    
    This person felt more than comfortable looking after the needs of 30-40
    people, including everything from Engineers to VP's. INcredibly
    efficient, never had to be told anything twice. 
    
    Sadly, we have since replaced her with 4 Permanent Secretaries, who are
    nowhere near as efficient.
    
    q

RE: .0 by UNIFIX::SILVER "PTT's alter ego"

> 1. How many miles can DEC force you to drive to a new job? I read 30 
>    somewhere, but can't find it in the policy manual.

DEC can move your job from Seattle WA to Littleton MA.  Commute,  move or quit.


Phil

>DEC can move your job from Seattle WA to Littleton MA.  Commute,  move or quit.
    
    That is the point.  If a person's job is moved too far for them to
    commute, so they must leave the company, did they "quit" or were they
    dismissed?  If they quit, then the company can reassign a person across
    the country without relocation, thereby forcing them to quit (most
    cases).
    
    There is a big difference between "quit" and "dismissed".
    
    - Craig

RE: .3 by UNIFIX::SILVER "PTT's alter ego"

PH> DEC can move your job from Seattle WA to Littleton MA.  Commute,  move or 
PH> quit.
    
> That is the point.  If a person's job is moved too far for them to
> commute, so they must leave the company, did they "quit" or were they
> dismissed?  If they quit, then the company can reassign a person across
> the country without relocation, thereby forcing them to quit (most
> cases).
    
> There is a big difference between "quit" and "dismissed".

Only if you want to go to court for damages.


Phil

>> There is a big difference between "quit" and "dismissed".

>Only if you want to go to court for damages.

I was/am under the impression that unemployment benefits are directly tied
to the difference between "quit" and "dismissed."  Ie, if you quit, you
don't get unemployment compensation.

- Craig

    
    
      Depending on the state,  there are circumstances in which you can
    "Quit"  and be eligible for unemployment.
     
      In mass,  One such circumstance is if it is necessary to quit a job 
    to  accompany a spouse who takes a  job necessitating moving far
    away.  (This was recently extended to  some cases of "significant
    others"  by a recent court decision.)
    
      An "impossible"  job relocation may be another.
    
      It's worth checking out,  anyway...
    
    
    						-al
    

Assuming the question was about a more local relocation than transcontinental,
here are the words out of the orange "Personnel Policies and Procedures"
manual:

Section 5.03, ELIGIBILITY, - 2. Mileage Qualification

In order to qualify for relocation benefits the following two tests must be met:

	a.  The employee's commute from current residence (old home) to new
            work location must increase by a minimum of 35 miles, or exceed
            60 miles;  and

	b.  The employee must move within 35 miles of their new work location.

These mileage qualifications are calculated by using the shortest of the more
commonly traveled routes between the employee's home and work location.

********
So your commute could end up being 60 miles, maximum.

Regards,
Leslie

re .7:

	Those numbers are to be elegable for relocation.  The question at
hand is a bit different - how many miles can DIGITAL force you to commute,
and if you don't take the job it be considered that you quit?
- Craig

    Digital can't force you to commute further than the relocation
    eligibility policy specifies or it is not a bona fide job offer.
    Are you speaking from an experience or out of paranoia?
    
    L

    There is a big difference in a job being "moved" and a job that is
    "going away".  Secretaries are very rarely given relocation
    benefits to move with their group or take a similar job with new
    group/new state.
    
    I've been told by other transitional secretaries that they had to look
    for positions at least within a 30 mile radius.  I think the 30 mile
    radius is from their present facility to a new one; not from their
    their home to new facility.
    

    Re:0
    
    	This is a legal question that you are asking and will strongly
    suggest that you call a lawyer from your state.   As other of the
    responses have already said it depends on the state where you are
    but no company can 'force' you to involuntarily commute any distance.
    
    	Now if the company (in this case DEC) is offering a 'Bona-Fide'
    job offer to you it is considered to be 'juris tantum' (controvertible)
    if the job you are being offered is 'too far away' for you to comply
    with your duties and responsabilities in a way that does not jeopardize
    your health or the companies 'normal operating procedures'.
    
    	In this case that you are questioning the job is x-miles away from
    your home, now the question is, being x-miles away is this really a
    'Bona-Fide' job offer ?    Will guess that the Orange Book will not
    answer this question because it will be on a case by case basis.
    However, there has been precedence in other people having jobs on over
    60 miles from his/her home without interrupting the corporation's
    normal operating procedures or jeopardizing the health of the employee.
    Now, were these employees excepts or non-excepts, here's another
    complication.   Because the laws are more rigid for excepts that non-
    excempts where secretaries are classified.
    
    So bottom line, is the x-mile journey that you will have to travel
    every single day a hazzard to your health ?    Will the company be
    negatively impacted due to this journey ?  What is the 'right' amount
    of miles from your home (30, 60 or 90) ?  What about the risk of a
    car accident and insurance ?   These are the questions you have to ask
    yourself and your lawyer.   

    I know of at least two secretaries that were relocated long distances.
    But then they were VP's secretaries...
    
    q
    

    
    Years ago, If your job moved and it was a certain distance away from
    your old job location, you could quit and still collect unemployment
    benefits.
    
    A co-worker of mine did this in the late 70's. Our company moved about
    40 miles north. The friends car couldn't handle the extra miles.
    I remember seeing the rules from the DES at the time. He quit and
    collected.
    
    Perhaps the DES or a lawyer would know the current rules.
    

    Anyone know the reason why secretaries whose groups are eliminated
    are not offered the package as indicated in .0 ? I know the in the past
    we were 'exempt' from TFSO packages, is this still true?
                                                             

    Two secretaries from our office took the package.  So it appears that
    it is not `off limits' to anyboday.
    
    tgc

    On a volunteer basis, yes, we had one take it in our group, too. But
    my curiousity is about the fact that the company is apparently, for
    some reason, unwilling to 'force' in on them as they have with other
    employees. Why is -2 allowed an undetermined amount of time to find 
    herself another job internally when the TFSO'd employees are only given
    5 days? Im a secretary, too, grateful to still have my job, but not
    particularly interested in being an 'exception' to the rule if indeed
    we are.

I love watching the communications breakdown when a field person attempts
to conduct a conversation with a GMA person.

First, the field will indeed lay off secretaries if need be because we don't 
have a pool of 40,000 employees laying around that need secreataries!

Now, in GMA (thats the Greater Maynard Area), Secretaries are most likely 
viewed as an interchangeable generic type of person for which there is a great
demand.  So why should we be PAYING them to leave the company when we are
employing temps at a rate presumably greater than just using ones that are
already on-staff?

While I do not advocate nor defend this point of view, I strongly suspect these
are the forces at work...

Oh well, gotto go into the office...  Have a nice day...

    RE:.11

  > The "30 mile radius" is supposed to be from where you currently live.  Not
  > from the facility you work at.  

    	I've heard the opposite.  It would be nice to know for sure which
    it really was.

    Joe

    yeah, if you already live 25 miles from work, and they relocate
    you 29 miles further away, you're looking at a looooong commute!

Last I checked:

    If I were accept a job over 60 miles from my home, I would be eligible for
relocation - period.  If I am willing to move myself over 60 miles to take a 
job which does not have relocation funds, then I must provide an address within
the 60 miles of the work site for personnel to send the offer letter, otherwise
DEC is obligated to pay me relocation.

This is how I understand it  (I've been in 10 different sites in 15 years).

Al

Digital is under no obligation to relocate you if the req for the
position has no relocation funds.  If it does have relo funds,
there are other criteria for whether you can receive them.

You just need to check in VTX ORANGEBOOK, no magic.
/Mark