Conference 7.286::digital

    Thank you, 1198, for presenting a more reasoned approach to this than
    some of our more cynical noters.  At least an attempt is being made to
    address the problems.  I am certainly in agreement that the management
    of this company is a little overweight, but that doesn't give us the
    right to eat uncontrollably (sp?).  I can live without plants, I can
    live without Wall Street Journals,  I can live without bottled water,
    and I can even live with a little less mileage money (within reason),
    and I am going to learn to live without two offices.  I won't like it,
    but I can do it, and I think it is within the companyies realm to ask
    me to do so.   
    
    I fear that many at DEC have forgotten the difference between that
    which they have been given and that to which they are entitled.  In a
    lot of cases, I think doing more with less is more like doing the same
    with what you should have had in the first place.  
    
    We have, I hope, begun to move in a positive direction.  Our best shot
    at getting through is to go with the flow for a while, work at it, and
    then see where we wind up.  Although I haven't been here a long time,
    everyone tells me that DEC really hasn't been through anything like
    this before -- we have had bad quarters, but the state of the world has
    never been like it is today.  
    
    I think management is trying to do the right thing, but it is so
    countercultural to 'lay off' thousands of personnel that it isn't going
    to be easy.  
    
    I guess I will see where we are in a few month before I join the
    reactionaries.
    
    LI

    I agree that the crying over lost perks is childish.  I hope, as
    I believe you do, that "this too will pass".  I fear, however, that
    some of the problems we have been discussing are not just bogeymen,
    but are real systematic problems in the business.
    
    1) This is an Engineering company.  General management has never
    been our strong suit.  It didn't used to matter.  I think it does
    today.
    
    2) We have promoted people into management who should have stayed
    as Individual Contributors (or in some cases, should never have
    been hired).  We have lost their contribution and had weaker management
    as well.
    
    3) The "average" manager is willing to manage anything, inside or
    outside of Digital.  I see very little passion for excellence on
    the part of managers.  More often, I see "keeping my nose clean"
    as the operating motif.
    
    4) We are so scattered in space and time and function, that we are
    one company only in name.  We have no common mission, no common
    language, no common measures of success, no common standards of
    performance.  We cannot even sort out the essential from the
    peripheral.  

    
    I believe these are fundamental problems which will require
    concentrated top management attention, even while they are focused
    on hard cost and revenue issues with which they are more comfortable.
    We need some graphic, dramatic examples that help us get oriented
    again.
    
    IMHO,
    
    Dick

    I think the biggest problem for Digital (and any company introuble)
    is Senior Mgt looking at dollars rather than the real problems.
    When companies get in trouble, thay had better first look at upper MGT
    and start evaluating it's skills and understanding with what it's
    business is.
    
    Manufactuing should be run by people who know how to make product,
    understand labor/mgt relations, purchasing, and quality control.
    
    Sales should be run by Saleman.
    
    Finance should be run by Accountants and Finance-MBA's
    
    Engineering should be run by Engineers.
    
    Consulting should be run by consultants.
    
    Interdisciplineary relations should be handled by Senior Mgt.
    I thought that was how DEC was once run.
    
    Maybe if we returned to that princial, we could once again be
    profitable.  It's easy to make mistakes and put the wrong people in the
    wrong places when making money is easy.
    

    I believe it:s a case of getting prioritiesright in the long-term that
    really counts.
    
    Take a parrallel, say someone realises that they are overweight and
    that this is damaging their health, what they need is a *diet*,
    followed by adjustment and a new outlook. i.e. diet, then excercise 
    the change the pattern of your life.
    
    Expense cuts in this context are the dietary factor, but we all know
    that if you simply continue to diet you become weak, possibly anerexic
    and your life changes from bad to worse.
    
    Long term I don:t believe expense and people cuts remain the answer,
    through being the *right size* does, but I don:t believe Digital
    has ever been *fat* or *self-indulgernt* and we must strive to move 
    towards the *excersise* stage and not the *anorexic*, for if we do that 
    we will have trouble keeping the people we want to keep.

    Re .1 and .2:

    Yes, there are "perks" we can all live without.  And if the industry as
    a whole is in a decline, these cutbacks will be universal.  At the risk
    of being labeled just another "whiner" or "disloyal," I'd like to
    present the whiner's side of the coin from a slightly different view.

    I'll present this in the first person, because it seems like the kind
    of thing where a "case study" is most convincing.  I wish I could
    present someone else as an example, because it might seem less like
    whining.

    I joined Digital right out of school.  I was thrilled to get the job,
    and didn't even think to negotiate salary.  However, taking an
    analytical view, the following things were or are now factored into my
    view of a compensation package:

	1. Working environment
	    examples:  great people to work with, easygoing yet
		       professional atmosphere, adequate resources
		       to get the job done, little perks like onsite
		       cafeterias, outdoor tables, microwaves, etc.
        2. Tangible benefits
	    examples:  outstanding health benefits, compensation for
		       business expenses so that I don't have to make
		       personal sacrifices in order to increase my
		       level of contribution to the company, travel
		       "perks" so that I can pretend that Digital is
		       treating me as "family" when I have to be away
		       from my real family.
        3. Location (maybe this is part of working environment)
	    examples:  Near Boston (fresh out of school, I had delusions
		       of spending lots of time attending concerts and
		       plays.  Also I had no concept of the cost of living
		       since I was single and had never had a paying job
		       or real expenses before).
	4. Salary
	    examples:  Money to pay for the things I really want to do.
		       Yes, work is satisfying, but it's not the only
		       priority in my life :-)
    
    Try to look at these from an economic view.  ( Sorry, my worst grade in
    college was in microeconomics, so I'm treading thin ice here ).  Most
    individuals can directly assign dollar values to the things in
    categories 2 and 4.  People who have atypical spending habits might
    value more salary and less predefined perks, thus assigning less than
    the direct compensation value to the items in category 2.  Likewise,
    some of the things in categories 3 and 1 might be easily assigned
    values (price of a week's groceries and avg. rent, for instance).
    Others are highly variable, because they reflect individual tastes.

    But in any case, removing a benefit from ANY of these categories lowers
    the total compensation package value.  To some people a particular perk
    might have little value.  For instance, if the water coolers went away
    and my salary went up 15 cents a week, I'd think I came out ahead in
    the deal.  I'd have the choice of putting my 15 cents in a private
    "water pool," or spending it on something more valuable to me. By the
    way, I still drink 1/2 gallon a day, so I did use the benefit although
    I don't value it at its true cost to Digital.

    Now the mileage reimbursement was a different matter for me.  This was
    a substantial direct transfer from my budget to the company's budget.
    Moreover, the change in mileage reimbursement is, in my mind, a penalty
    for increased contribution to Digital.  For instance, if I volunteer to
    attend a meeting, either to contribute or to bring back information for
    my group, the expense comes out of my pocket, not Digital's.

    Also, the mileage reimbursement change would have had a direct impact
    on long term assumptions I had made.  I chose to live in Fitchburg
    because my rent + heat + commuting costs came out lower than the rent +
    heat + commuting for a similar place in Marlboro.  With one swipe of
    the pen, I suddenly incur an added expense of about $5.00 for each day
    that I need to bring a car to work (instead of riding the van, which I
    pay for whether I ride it or not), so that I can attend a meeting in
    the virtual-yet-ever-so-physical office.  As it is, I can't write off
    the 48 additional miles from home to my normal office, but at least I
    can write off the trip to the offsite meeting.

    Another way to look at that:  It's as if your group relocated 26 miles
    away once or twice a week.  The choice, pay to move yourself, or fork
    over the money so that the company looks leaner.
    
    It's easy to say "times are tough, you shouldn't whine about the
    changes taking place."  I bet you'd here pretty widespread whining if
    we had a pay cut.  Even another salary freeze would cause much more
    whining, because now most of us understand that in the MA economy
    anything less than a 5% annual raise is a cut.  To people who have
    factored certain "perks" into their long term choices, the
    disappearance of those perks is every bit as painful as a pay cut.

    Now if the "perks" which we "whine about" are going away industry-wide,
    then fine; generally it takes a huge compensation differential before
    an employee considers an outright career change.  However, if these
    cuts in compensation are unilateral, and other places are hiring, we'll
    start to see an outflow of people.  And my guess is that, in a
    recession, the best people will go first because the compensation will
    only be competetive for them.

    I hope someone in Digital is looking at our compensation package from a
    broad view like I outlined above, not just "salaries."  And I also hope
    that we have an accurate view of the dollar values that employees place
    on their loyalty.  But that's another topic...

    By the way, despite my whining about the way things are changing, I do
    agree that it is better to have leadership who try to deal with the
    problem rather than bail out with those heavy parachutes.

    One of two things is happening:

      1. The atmosphere at Digital is changing, and we're taking
         compensation cuts to improve the bottom line and make our
         management look good.
    or
      2. Digital is in reeeeeaaaaaallly big trouble, which is only
         understood by our top management at this point.  I can
	 understand my own budget (just barely), but not the company's.
         Maybe only top management really understands where we are.
         As a result, the people who don't believe we're that bad off
	 are clogging up the desparate efforts.

    I still have trouble believing that it's more 2 than 1 -- Jack Smith is
    pretty straightforward (seems to me anyways).  Putting out memos about
    minor benefit adjustments is just to subtle.  If the problem is more 2
    than 1, I hope he'll deal with on the level of "pure" pay cuts and
    layoffs, rather than beating around the bush...

    re: .6, .7
    
    Personally, I think one problem is that there are too many people
    who joined Digital straight out of school or within a couple of years
    of graduating.  And who are totally out of touch with the rest of the
    world, as a result.
    
    I decided to work at Digital some 8 or 9 years ago when I realized that
    Digital's secretaries were paid about as much as managers at some of the
    small companies I worked at.  And I've rarely seen anybody work as hard
    here as people do at smaller companies.
    
    You think that cutting the perks will cause the good people to leave? 
    And go where?  In case you haven't noticed, the Mass. economy isn't
    doing too well these days.  And if you own property in Mass., you're
    stuck in Mass.   As for the rest of the country, other than other
    successful hi-tech firms, where do you think they'll find anything that
    matches the salaries and bennies that this company offers? 
    
    

    Well, with our stock at 51.75 today, I am now considering worm farming
    as advertised in those match books.
    
    Seriously, I have seen and been through this at other companies..I
    think we are in deep.
    
    Dave
    
    

    RE: .3 AMEN!!
    
    RE: .4
    
    > Long term I don:t believe expense and people cuts remain the answer,
    > through being the *right size* does, but I don:t believe Digital
    > has ever been *fat* or *self-indulgernt*  .....
    
    I'm trying hard to understand this perspective. Although I concur that
    "just cutting any old body" is not the answer, I can't appreciate the
    observation that we are not "fat".
    
    I might be able to understand element of your response if you work in
    Europe or GIA. (Although I have not worked in either organization, my
    perception is that they are more streamlined with less management
    overhead). If you are referring to the US, I can't fathom this comment.
    The US organization is far from lean, and I see evidence every day that
    we are doing nothing to correct this. In fact, I see evidence it is
    getting WORSE!
    
    RE: .7
    
      >   Digital is in reeeeeaaaaaallly big trouble, which is only
      >   understood by our top management at this point.  
    
    I think a lot more people understand how deep we're in than you give
    credit for. In fact, I think the appreciation of how deep the swamp is
    (or could be) is BETTER appreciated by those out there standing in it!
    
    I think senior management gets too much filtered information. This can
    be especially true if there is a predisposition to "don't tell me any
    bad news." 
    
    I've worked for more than one manager like that (at DEC and other
    companies) . If you wanted to have a perfectly rotten day, all you had
    to do was give them a piece of bad news (even if it was true). If you
    wanted to have a decent day, all you had to do was find a tidbit of
    good news to throw them, and you were a hero. I know people who report
    in to some pretty high levels in this company who are very frustrated
    by the changes (read: inappropriate changes) that are made to
    information they give to their managers. 
    
    	"I tell the boss that this is what's happening and why. S/he goes
    	to his/her boss and says 'Everything's going great ... don't worry
    	about anything.'"
    
    The sign of a good manager is the ability to take BAD NEWS and deal
    with it. Things have gone so well at DEC for so long, I wonder if our
    managers can cope. (?)
    
    /se
    
    
    
    

RE: .8


>    Personally, I think one problem is that there are too many people
>    who joined Digital straight out of school or within a couple of years
>    of graduating.  And who are totally out of touch with the rest of the
>    world, as a result.

Lighten up!  You were never "straight out of school" ?
    
>    I decided to work at Digital some 8 or 9 years ago when I realized that
>    Digital's secretaries were paid about as much as managers at some of the
>    small companies I worked at.  And I've rarely seen anybody work as hard
>    here as people do at smaller companies.

You have obviously never worked in a field office for DEC.  For all practical
purposes, those people ARE working in a "smaller company" and they bust their
butts.  Sales, sales support, customer svcs, even a few managers (:^) are
very busy folks every day.  Try it.  I have.

>    You think that cutting the perks will cause the good people to leave? 
>    And go where?  In case you haven't noticed, the Mass. economy isn't
>    doing too well these days.  And if you own property in Mass., you're
>    stuck in Mass.   As for the rest of the country, other than other
>    successful hi-tech firms, where do you think they'll find anything that
>    matches the salaries and bennies that this company offers? 

Having just moved to New England from "the rest of the country,"  I demur.
There are plenty of good-paying companies around the USA (why stop there?
throughout the world) that are doing very well.  Many of them are customers of
ours, taking advantage of the technology we've produced to remain profitable.  
And those customers are always interested in hiring good skilled people.

I agree that if you own property in this area then it is absolutely a major
problem to try to leave.  But it can be done.  Meanwhile, if you are stuck
here, there are an awful lot of hi-tech job ads in the Globe every Sunday...

K.

    RE .8:
    
    >8 or 9 years ago when I realized that Digital's secretaries were paid
     about as much as managers at some of the small companies I worked at.
    
    Wow!  Wish I were here.  FYI - Things have changed.

    re .8:

    Actually, I have to agree that, in my case, I am probably out of touch
    with the world.  After all, I've been at Digital for 6 years. :-)

    Here are some things I have been doing, with the goal of being more
    effective as a contributer.  Please add constructive (or destructive:-)
    suggestions to the list:

      1. Went to a liberal arts undergrad school (Dartmouth), and took funky
	 non-engineering courses like policy studies and economics.  The
         philosophy at Dartmouth/Thayer/Tuck is that you need to be aware
         of more than just your field of specialty to be effective as an
	 engineer or businessman.  I still believe this.  I also believe
	 that, as an engineer, I should seek involvement in tasks outside
	 of the traditional "engineering skill set".
      2. Completed a Masters in Engineering (Computer Science) at Cornell
	 University, through the GEEP.  Goal was to be more effective as an
	 engineer, and to get a broader view of "the world" of computer
	 science.  Objectives: to improve my engineering effectiveness and,
	 upon returning to Digital, be more involved in new product efforts.
      3. Currently watching for ways to be involved at a customer level,
	 more broadly involved at an engineering level, and more aware of the
	 mission and long term plans of the team/group/company I work for.
      4. If I ever find the time, I'll be reading our CMPD's LRP and any
	 other statement of mission I can find.  (Only had time for my
	 group's LRP so far).
      5. Currently working through "What Color is Your Parachute," to
	 better ascertain my skills and fit them to my working environment
	 (or my working environment to them :-)

    Here's your opportunity -- an engineer who would *love* to be more
    involved, who is trying to "do what's right," who is open to
    suggestions and will implement them as time permits (and who regrets
    that last little phrase).  Fire away.

re: .13  My hat's off to you and others trying to learn the "big picture".

Sometimes, like others, I feel caught by the current situation. I've
invested much of my energy into Digital, have a number of skills that have
less value outside of Digital as time goes on (like knowing VMS...), own a
house, am getting into the "family" business, and haven't the faintest idea
how to contribute to the big picture.

It's made a little tougher because I naturally have this "switch rather
than fight" mentality which I have been trying to overcome. There are a
number of factors helping me to combat this attitude; knowing that I am
stuck here for a while and having good management helps.

    I have to agree with several of the previous noters.  I don't get any
    feeling that people are working hard (field excepted).  In fact my one
    lengthy experience with a field office in 85, nobody was particularly
    busting anything there either.
    
    In my 18 years with Digital, I have occasionally taken visiting
    relatives through DEC facilities.  Without exception the first thing out
    of their mouths is "why isn't anyone doing anything?"  In various jobs,
    I've had lots of opportunities to interface with DEC customers, and
    there things were literally buzzing.  Also, I always had the
    impression that managers in other companies were a hell of a lot
    more competent than in DEC.
    
    I know I'll get all kinds of outraged responses from people who are
    really working hard.....but I also know, absolutely, that one hell
    of a lot of staffees are just floating along, coming in at 9, leaving
    at 4, taking "mental health" days, etc.  I don't believe things will
    ever change.