Conference 7.286::digital

    P.S. I did a DIR/TITLE and couldn't find a related subject.  If
    it exsists, please move my note!
    
    Cb

    
    This too frustrates me to no end.  I would and do not tend to call
    back people on machines.  NOT GOOD CUSTOMER SATISFACTION! (Flame
    off).  We seem (at times) to expend monies on some crazy things,
    like these machines.
    
    I understand that there is a pilot going on in Marlboro, MA. with
    some type of message center where you phones can be sent while you
    out of the office. They will answer it "Digital Equipment Corporation"
    then look up the person at inform the caller that "Mr./Ms. Smith
    is out of the office, may I take a message for him/her?" If a message
    is left they forward it to you electronically.  Again, I do not
    know all the ins-and-outs of this process but it sure seems that
    it would better serve our internal business and greatly improve
    our Customer Satisfaction levels if there was a human on the end
    of the phone.
    
    Just one more piece of information that ties into this deal.
    "Make it a Corporate Standard to have everyone registered in ELF
    the same way.  Provide as much information as possible so this can
    become a tool to help with internal and external businesses".
    
    Regards,
    Bob Montville
    

Pretend that you are a small customer in NH with one uV2000.  Your system
manager has gone on vacation.  You have a brief power failure and your
system goes down.  You see a ">>>" prompt but don't know what to do.
Your accounting report is due by the end of the day.  You can't get your
system manager.  You can't find any number to call.  You remember the
big Digital office on Spit Brook Rd.  Now:

1) Call directory assistance and ask for the number of Digital Equipment
Corporation on Spit Brook Rd in Nashua NH. 

2) Dial that number.

3) Wait for a 45 minutes until someone answers the phone and says
"Joes Pizzaria". (Hopefully at this point in our hypothetical situation
you will be given the 800 number of the Hot Line)

Now you will be happy that people are getting answering machines.

John

    I called IEG the other day and went through the phone menu.  I wasn't
    thrilled with talking to a machine, but the fact is it was effective. 
    Within 40 minutes I had a returned call from a technical specialist who
    had the *answer* to my problem.  That's service! (and an efficient use
    of resources)
    
    Marge

    I have to agree with Marge about I.E.G.  While thier pricing policies
    seem to be changing radically of late (it wasn't so long ago that
    they went from 80 to 76 percent, then Tuesday they hit 72 percent!),
    but when you leave a message on their phone-mail it does get answered!
    
    Most places I talk to of late (other than Digital) promise to have
    someone call you back, but you never hear from them again.  If the
    US is really moving from a product based economy to a service based
    one, we are in _BIG_ trouble!
    
    Willie

    Sugestion:  Why not retrain some of the excess 4000 employees
                how to answer phones and take messages?
    

    I'm sick and tired about hearing about "efficient use of resources".
    People deserve to talk to people, and no machine should ever be
    allowed to take over that function.  It's bad enough internally,
    but imagine the impact on customers.  Our increasing reliance on
    these things is another example of why we are slipping competitively.
    
    I remember a story in one of the business rags a couple years ago
    about a new  IBM Division President who ordered all answering machines
    out of the building on his first day on the job.....bravo.
    
    I have extensive experience as an IBM customer, and I can tell you
    we are light years behind them in the way we handle customer calls.
    I'm really trying hard to keep from flaming on this one, but I also
    believe we should through them all out.

    My response at the tone is to simply say "sorry you just missed winning
    the GRAND PRIZE!" (hang up)
    

    Phone message answering machines are only as good as the people
    calling back, and responding to the message.One of my pet peeves
    are phones ringing off thehook, at least with the machine, you get
    to leave a message. Also at Dec we are not good at returning phone
    calls, in my 6+ years here I have been amazed at the number of people
    who thank me for returning their call. We need to improve this in
    order to provide better customer satisfaction. Answering machines
    are also used to compensate for not enough clerical help to assist
    in phone backup.

    
    I'm in a European Marketing function. Means I'm usually out of the
    office, & many people calling me are external. I got fed up with
    them complaining that they had left messages with unknown people
    that never got through to me.
    
    Bought an answerphone, & update the outgoing message religously.
    Anyone calling in knows I'm out, to leave a message, & I'll call
    back as soon as I'm able.
    
    I can ring in from anywhere in the world to pick up my messages,
    & I do ring back. 
    
    I can assure all readers that my contacts are now MUCH happier than
    they were. Many of those contacts (press, customers, suppliers etc)
    also ring IBM, & they would agree absolutely with a previous note that
    compared us unfavourably with Big Blue.
    
    Colin Osborne

    I'd much rather get a tape recorder than a ringing telephone...someone
    I played phone tag with all day yesterday and finally left a message on
    the machine that answers his lab telephone finally reached me at home
    late last night with the answers we needed (I left the questions on the
    tape recorder in his lab).
    
    Sure, I'd rather talk to a person.  But a tape recorder is much better
    than a ringing phone.

    I HATE TALKING TO MACHINES.
    
    But form htis side of the machine (We have a Voice Mail system here)
    it's great.  Back when I had to rely on Secrataries to take phone
    messages, I had a few important ones come in in the morning and vanish
    until four in the afternoon.  And if it was from some one on the east
    coast, the three hour time differential killed any chance of my getting
    back to them that day and the cycle would start again the next day. 
    Yes I do leave messages on machines, because that is the only way I
    know that my message will get to the other party quickly.
    
    Larry

    I think alot of the time the issue can be resolved by rotating the
    lunch schedules.  We have spent a great deal of money on this
    "forwarding phone system" to not have our phones answered during
    business hours.  Talking to a machine de-humanizes our relationship
    with our customers. (I don't care what function of the business we
    we work for, we ALL have a customer relationship with someone)
                                                   
    I see fifty secretaries/coordinators walk out to lunch every day
    together leaving ALL the phones unmanned (un-personed, if you like).
                                            
    Still have a real problem with this...
    
    Chip

re .8

>    I remember a story in one of the business rags a couple years ago
>    about a new  IBM Division President who ordered all answering machines
>    out of the building on his first day on the job.....bravo.
    
I presume this division president made himself available to cover phones for
secretaries who needed a bathroom break!   :-)

This is not a simple issue ... some people like machines, some people hate
them, but sometimes they can be the best solution to a tricky problem, if
properly used.

Oh, well.  I don't know too much about voice mail, but it works for companies
like Lotus ... why not here - in all facilities??

    We may not like them, but answering machines and voice mail seem the
    proverbial wave of the future.  It's harder and harder to fill
    secretarial and receptionist work slots.  The labor pool is diminishing
    in size, and women, who traditionally filled clerical functions,
    now have much better opportunities available to them.
                                    
    So all this belly-aching and breast beating over answering machines
    is but wasted energy.  You'll have as much luck eliminating answering
    machines/voice mail as you will getting people back
    to their slide rulers.
    
    Gene
                 

    Re: .16
    
    I applaud your insight.  Automated telephone handling to direct
    incoming calls as well as voicemail systems are the wave of the
    future.  Our young men and women who would have in the past looked
    forward to starting their career as a clerk/secretary are now setting
    their sights higher, becoming more educated, and don't need to take
    entry level jobs.  
    
    As more and more people become conditioned to this automation, however
    impersonal it may seem, we will all accept it as the most efficient
    way and the norm.  In the beginning of this era we should be careful
    to record friendly outgoing messages to help take the edge off the
    person who must record their incoming message.  And, of course,
    check your recorder often and return those calls promptly.
    

    Shouldn't everything we do in our company be driven from a customer
    satisfaction angle?  (Isn't that Japans key_to_success?)
    
    If the above is true, I think it would be interesting to see how
    many people (DECCies or DEC Customers) feel about not having an
    ability to speak directly.  
    
    I think its too easy to say; "everyone else is doing it, so it is
    the wave of the future".  Personnally, I don't buy it.  Maybe by
    doing something differently we can stand out better as a company.
    (Most of our customer interface is through the telephone, so I 
    think the issue is substancial)
    
    Every Tom Peters "In search of excellence" film I have seen stresses
    the need to get businesses back into bed with the customer, NOT
    by creating another layer of <BS> between the customer and the
    product.
    
    Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, I just think its important for
    the Customer to tell us what's important not visa versa, and I
    haven't seen the need for any of this driven by the customer
    base.
    
    Chip

    Consider two cases:

    From a customer's perspective, when I call one company and they can't
    provide "ordinary" information such as price and delivery information
    and another company _can_, it is the latter that gets my business.
    Federal Express and Land's End (clothing) are excellent in this regard.

    For Digital, many of these ordinary questions seem to be handled well
    by DECdirect(TM)

    When I call a company with a problem that, in my opinion, would require
    research or some special competence, then I expect my message to be
    forwarded.  What _mechanism_ accomplishes that is unimportant as long
    as the call is returned.
    
    Isn't it funny how the word "resources" crops up in every excuse for
    poor customer service in Digitalese.  It's as if our customers could
    "value" our non-competitive service to them.
                                    

    I love answering machines. But then I hate calling people up.
    Except for friends and when it's otherwise necessary I'd rather
    use E-mail or a personal visit. I feel a lot more comfortable
    with face to face than phone visits. If I have to call than
    answering machines are great. You can call, leave a message and
    when someone gets back to you they already have the answers you
    need. Assuming you leave a reasonable message. From what I've read
    the same things that make others unhappy with answering machines
    make me happy with them. As long as the response is as good with them
    as it is with people answering phones I really don't see what the
    problem is.

    		Alfred

    BTW, I find the response rate from answering machines to be better
    then from human phone answerers.

    Our office is a maze of bouncing phones -- once it bounces away from
    where it went to, it goes to places where no one knows where you
    are, even to phones on a completely different floor.

    A couple of months ago, I had to get a beeper to support a customer
    event I put together when I was sent to fight a fire. Much as I despise
    beepers, I'm not giving it up. I now handle all my routine contacts by
    beeper.

    I don't think managers should have a phone machine -- their phone should
    be answered by a competent person. But one for individuals would be
    wonderful -- I've often considered just buying my own for the office.

    /Peters

>>    I don't think managers should have a phone machine -- their phone should
>>    be answered by a competent person. But one for individuals would be
>>    wonderful -- I've often considered just buying my own for the office.
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	This would be nice but management here absolutely FORBIDS buying
	our own answering machines. I know because I've tried several times.

							Warren

    
    re .22 -
    
    where's "here"?
           
    I'm a manager based in the UK, with European responsibilities. I
    bought my own, after some debate.
    
    If I'm accountable for my performance, then I want the tools that
    let me perform. Either that, or someone downgrades my targets.
    
    Colin Osborne   
    
    

    re: .22
    
    Was your management concerned with the legal liability should the
    answering machine be stolen, or did they have other reasons for not
    allowing you to purchase your own?

        The problem is not answering machines, they are merely a solution
        to a symptom. THe problem is a business approach that leaves total
        offices un-manned for significant periods of time.
        
        q
        

      re .22

>>    I don't think managers should have a phone machine -- their phone should
>>    be answered by a competent person. But one for individuals would be
>>    wonderful -- I've often considered just buying my own for the office.
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      I should have added ... "and fighting the battle for it, since they are
      currently not allowed."

      For "why?" I think it is to insure, for business purposes, that 
      customers who call with issues can (a) vent them (b) get the ball
      rolling. Our customers are banks and brokerage firms.

      Still, I think an answering machine whould be a much more reliable way
      of getting messages -- although the machine may then be the _only_
      record, which is another issue. I know someone (non-manager) in the
      Boston office, though, who does have a machine. Part of their phone
      message is, "If you need to talk to someone right away, please call
      X-real-person at DID-phone-number." I think that's suitably
      professional.

      /Peters

    
    re .22 -
    
    Issue was not to do with anything other than some more senior managers
    didn't like using answerphones.........
    
    Convinced them with ease that my contacts would get a better service,
    & DEC a better reputation, by sensible use of machine.
    
    In the building in which I work, phones are re-directed manually
    or automatically to a whole range of secretaries. Many of them no
    little about me, my contacts, & are many offices away from my diary.
    
    Result is that, even if the phone is answered, it is not answered
    by someone able to give a professional level of help to the caller.
    I can, & do, pass more reliable info on the answerphone.
                                                    
    Colin Osborne

    
    "Here" is the Phoenix, Arizona manufacturing plant in the information
    management (IM) group. 
    
    My interpretation of the reason was that it was desired that all
    calls coming into the group go through a central point. I'm not
    sure if a past abuse of an answering machine by someone in the
    department added to the decision. Either way the message was
    very strong: NO PERSONAL ANSWERING MACHINES. 
    
    							Warren

    
    I can't believe that it's more cost effective to install a voice
    messaging system than staff a 2-3 person message center. A message
    center is more flexible and user friendly (if staffed by the right
    people and is monitored to ensure it). A single center could service
    several sites using a network application to keep track of a person's
    whereabouts.
    
    I can't name one person who really likes calling a voice messaging
    system. Most people I know react more negatively to one than to even a
    answering machine, and that's saying alot!
    
    Ray
    

re: .29

Now you can name one.  I rather like voice messaging ... I definately
prefer it to dumb answering machines since it often gives me a choice
("You can leave a message or push * to reach a human.").

I don't feel particularily comfortable talking to a machine either;
apparently it's naturally repugnant to people.  But it's a silly
reluctance.  Doesn't anyone notice how ironic it is to use electronic
conferencing to complain about electronic answering machines?

The irony makes me chuckle at least.

- greg

    	   I think that a message center could be very effective if set
    	up properly.  Some of the things that I would consider are the
    	types of call that would be coming in, technical, managerial, 
    	employee etc.  Each message center could be set up with that
    	sort of info in mind.  
    
    	   If a message center was used it would make sense to man it 
    	with people who would be able to answer the types of questions
    	coming in.  A technical person to perhaps calm, and direct an
    	upset customer or to get them started in the right direction.  
    	For managerial type questions, have an good secretary/public
    	relations type.  The list goes on from there.
    
    	   Basically, what I'm saying is that answering machines aren't
    	the best solution to anything.  I hate getting the bloody things
    	and many times won't leave messages as I need answers to my 
    	questions at the time I called.  Not some unknown time in the
    	future.  
    
    	   Vicki

    I find answering machines, in a strange way, more "user friendly" than
    the average secretary or message center.  Many of my calls are requests
    for particular technical information from people I know fairly well. 
    We have a common understanding of terminology and, typically a shared
    context.  I can leave a question on an answering machine without the
    worry that my message will be garbled or, worse, "interpreted" by
    an intermediary.

    As the owner of an answering machine (home not office), my pet peeve is
    people who refuse to leave anything more than a "call me back" message. 
    I've gotten messages of this sort from people who were calling to
    cancel a pending engagement.  Needless to say, I didn't reach them
    until their absence had already informed me of the probable content of
    their message.  Alternatively, some machine haters simply hang up and
    then, when they do reach me, complain loudly about how hard it is to
    get hold of me. Aagh!

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We're a big company and have people with different types of jobs, working with
different types of callers, and working in different cultural environments.

What is a good solution for a person in an engineering environment who is not
expected to receive a lot of phone calls is not a good solution for a person in
a customer contact situation where the job involves answering the phone.  And
there are many different jobs in between.

I, personally, don't like answering machines, so I try to be as reachable as
possible by carrying a portable phone.  Coverage is not 100% reliable (due to
the relative infancy of the cellular phone system and the rolling terrain in
the area I work and live -- this will get better as more people have phones)
and I don't normally leave the phone on during meetings.

When people call my office phone, they get the following DECtalk message, which
is modified if I am at an extended meeting or on a trip:

	This is John Covert's office.  John is not in at the moment.

	If you would like to try his alternate number, call (cellular number).

	His electronic mail address is Covert::Covert.

	Or, you may leave a message with a secretary by calling (secretary's
	number).

	Repeating those numbers, (above sequence of numbers and mail address
	repeats)

	Thank you for calling, goodbye.

This encourages DEC callers to try the portable phone or send mail.  Mail is
really the best way to reach me if I'm not at my desk, and sending mail is what
my secretary would do if the call went to her (or to her answering machine).

I almost never give out my office phone to personal business establishments;
people who call my home number are routed directly to the portable phone (or
to a fixed phone where I am actually located).  My secretary should not have
to take personal messages for me (either in person or on the group's recorder)
unless it's really important.  If I'm not available, the caller gets a free
message from the cellular system saying that I'm unreachable, and asking them
to try back later.

By the way, I pay my cellular bill myself.  This means that if you were to reach
me on the cellular phone during the peak rate period, you'll probably get asked
for a number I can call you back at (immediately) from the nearest fixed phone.

/john

    This issue has been a big one in our office for quite awhile.  Some
    of my comments are:  (speaking from a secretarial point of view,
    of course)
    
    I do not appreciate dropping my work to answer the phone that is
    ringing on my desk only to find that whoever was there has hung
    up.
    
    I do not appreciate having to take messages such as "Please tell
    John that his boat is ready at the marina."  or "Just tell my husband
    that I am checking in."  Let's be real!!  
    
    Another good one is where the phone rings in Bill's office three
    times then stops.  It then rings in Jane's office three times and
    stops.  Then it rings in Bill's office three times and stops.  Then
    when it begins to ring in Jane's office again and I do a "call-pickup"
    the caller says - "Oh, I was looking for Jane or Bill."  I reply,
    "They aren't here, can I help you?"  "No, I'll send mail!"  Why
    can't you do that after the first call.  I hate this!!
    
    I do not appreciate the reply in .14 regarding all the secretaries
    going out to lunch.  Funny, but no one seems to complain when they
    call the office during lunch and reach a secretary..."Bill sure
    had a heck of a nerve going to lunch today instead of answering
    his phone!!"
    
    Or how about this one...Manager says, "I am expecting an important
    call from Tom.  I'll be over in Jack's office checking out his new
    tennis racket."
    
    I understand that these may be isolated instances (however, I don't
    really think so since most of the secretaries I speak with have
    the same kinds of concerns/gripes). 
    
    I would LOVE to have a voice message system.  I am tired of answering
    personal phone calls.  I am tired of confirming doctor's appointments,
    I am tired of being tied to my desk by the telephone cord, when
    the rest of the office doesn't have to worry about their phones
    at any time during the day.  I am even tired of the hangups!  People
    are so discourteous that they hang up when they hear my voice -
    not the voice of the person they called.  "Oh, I didn't want to
    bother your secretary" -- but you did because she answered your
    call!!
    
    Maybe I'm in the wrong profession, but this one sure hit a hot button
    with me.

    (should I move this one to SOAPBOX?)
    
    -sandy
    

Blank lines:  As J.S. Bach said, there's information in the spaces too.

In a previous existence, I was a voice mail user and it was inexpressibly
superior to "real people" taking messages.  The place was full of techno-cranks
who "hated" phone-answering machines, but at the end of a 90-day trial
period there was complete (I mean 100%) agreement that it was a win.

The worst thing about phones is no message-switching and that's what voice
mail gives you.  This thing would also place calls, to a list, when you wanted,
allow you to pick up your messages from a remote location, run the business
phone remotely, and generally tear up the communications waves.

The "real person" who answers my phone at ZK when it gets forwarded has no 
connection with me whatsoever and changes from time to time, although a couple
of them have known who I am (by accident).

        (Note 848.35 without all the blank lines......sorry about the
        mishap.....these darn keys get in my way.....) 

    
    My wife works for I*M at their marketing branch in downtown Boston and 
    they've had Rolm's phonemail system for the last two years. 
    
    Overall, she tells me that the reaction to the new system has been
    very, very positive. She uses it like I use VAXmail -- forwarding
    messages, relaying information, etc --- really a very slick system.
    With the 1-800 numbers provided for her, she has access to her messages
    across the country (And yes, I admit that we use it to relay messages
    to each other when she's away at classes...) With the introduction
    of this system, IBM in Boston has cutback severely on support
    personnel whose primary function is to answer phones.
    
    As an I*M'er, she's agast at the quality of phone coverage I
    have at my location. Until I got my own answering machine (paid
    for by DEC), she stood a 1-in-4 chance of getting a message to me.
    If it was critical that she reach me in a hurry, forget it.
    
    I'm in favor of the voice messaging systems -- DEC really needs
    to upgrade their PBX's to accomodate this technology, especially for
    those whose main focus is customer service. Until that happens, 
    answering machines will continue to proliferate.  
    
    
                KPT

    re. .37
    
    Having started out at DEC in an administrative position, I can
    understand your concerns about secretaries being interrupted by
    phone calls...especially the personal calls.  I also remember how
    awful it was to plan each lunch around everyone else in the group
    so the phones were covered.
    
    As far as all the secretaries taking lunch at the same time, 
    one of the major responsibilties of a secretary is to answer the
    phones.  No-one else's job requires sitting at their desk all day
    in case the phone rings...because the secretary can answer it.
    
    Unfortunately, it's NOT a nice part of the job description, but
    it IS part of the job.  If you dislike being tied to the phone,
    perhaps you should pursue a non-secretarial position.  
    
    

Years ago, when I worked in the Huntsville, AL office, answering machines were
verboten "because they are incompatible with our new phone system" .... and I
believe there really was some problem behind the PBX that made typical end-user
equipment non-functional.  Tried a standard home phone at the office and it
didn't work.  Perhaps that the basis for SOME of the resistance to them ...

Steve

                Boy, has this one created a bit of heat (and some light
        too).
                
                
                I started to use an answering machine when I joined a
        group (I'm in engineering) where the boss thought that the
        secretery had more important things to do than to answer the
        phone for a bunch of engineers (she answered the bosses phone
        though). I quickly found that I had difficulties doing my job
        when people could not get in touch with me (my job also took me
        out of the office). So, I brought in an answering machine that I
        had used at home, but was no longer using. (BTW - he wouldn't
        buy us machines either). After a short time I was convinced that
        having the machine (even 8 years ago) was worth it. When that
        machine died (it was a cheap one), I bought another (still the
        same boss) to replace it. 
                
                As for using it - It is vitaly important that the owner
        of the machine reply to calls recieved on it!
                
                My response to getting one at the other end varies as to
        my needs at that moment. If I needed to talk to the person
        immediately - I will hang up on the machine. If the person can
        get back to me later - I will leave a message.
                
                All in all - I think they can be a win when used
        properly. They can also be a big loser if improperly used by
        either end.
                
                /s/     Bob

  With reference to the note from the secretary a few back...

  Peoples' reactions to secretaries vary just as widely as peoples'
  reactions to phone machines.  If a person reoutinely finds that
  the secretary isn't there, or garbles the message, or supresses all
  the "content" of the message ("Sam called.  Call him back."), then
  that person will eventually become trained to hang up as soon as
  they hear the telltale ring-stutter-ring of the phone transferring
  to that secretary.  (Or if there's more than one secretary in the
  group and they vary in effectiveness, they may not hang up until
  the hear which one they got.  Rude, I'll grant you, but time-ef-
  ficient, for the caller, at least.)

  If this happens often enough with enough secretaries, that person
  will begin to assume that most secretaries will, by default, mess
  up the message.  It may not be true of you, but such is life.

  As another noter pointed out, my machine, on the other hand, willingly
  takes as detailed a message as you care to dictate and it does not
  "interpret" it.  Nor does VAXmail.  Nor would proper voicemail if
  we had it available to us.

  And then you wouldn't have to do that dreadful part of your job.
  The downside risk depends on how much would be left in your job
  description once "phone-duty" is removed.

                                   Atlant