Conference 7.286::digital

    1.  Will you return the photos?
    
    2.  Do they have to have the DIGITAL logo in them anywhere?
    
    Doug

    
    
    Jeanne,  Instead of glossey color pictures, or any pictures, and
    a hugh cost at making, how about NO pictures and STRAIGHT talk
    for this brochure.  Put the savings back into the medical plan.
    I hate seeing a waste of money like this!
    ed badger
    

        Photos perhaps of the cars people are having to buy because of the
        changes in the car plan...
        
        q
        

From .0:

>    I am producing a brochure (to go to all U.S. employees) and a video
>    (for manager training) about Pay at Digital.  For both pieces, I
>    would like to use photographs of DEC employees (and families). 
>    The idea is to connect pay with all those people/events in life
>    that make our pay so important to us.

I guess I'm trying to understand the exact purpose of this brochure. Is the pay
that we receive as Digital employees significantly different (in nature and/or
quantity) than other companies that you would need to produce a brouchure to
explain its impact upon us?

Lee  :^?

        It *is* an interesting question.  I suppose that if we have enough
        pictures, people will be distracted from reading the words, which
        perhaps have some unpleasant information to convey, like you're
        not going to get as big a pay increase as you deserve, because we
        spent a lot on money on a nice brochure. 
        
        Tom

    See, now there you all go again, thinking that some of us can read!
    
    Really, if it were not for the pictures in all of our manuals, I'd
    never be able to figure out how our software works *;'>
    
    Doug

    Forget the stupid picture brochure.  Just divvy up the entire cost
    of it to the employees.  Why is it needed anyhow?

    It could be worse...
    
    The request could have been sent out by bulk mailing...
    
    Paul

    I would rather spend that money on much needed product brochures.
    It is amazing how some departments get money for such unproductive 
    things, while some  have to ration every penny for the very important
    product brochures, which may bring us a sale or two.
    
    

    What is it that all of you want?  In one topic, there is a lot of
    complaining about "policies and changes which aren't communicated".
    Another topic complains about "overwhelming volume of useless
    information".  And there's another about "communication which is
    impossible to decipher".
    
    So, here we have a group taking the time and effort to produce a
    potentially useful document in a pleasant form to explain something
    (I presume) about policies which are important to us.  Then, instead
    of assistance, all the following replies are more complaints and
    speculation.
    
    You can't have it both ways.
    
    Bruce
    
    P.S. I have no connection with the effort in question.
    
    P.P.S. If you were to try to divide up the actual dollar amount
    spent on this among the 120+K employees, you'd probably find that
    it doesn't amount to much.

    re .11:
    
    I agree that pay is important because of family considerations,
    however, that cannot be a factor in "paying for performance".
    If it were a factor, then we would pay more to the breadwinner of
    a large family over a single person doing exactly the same work.
    We do not/cannot pay based on need but rather on contribution to
    the welfare of DIGITAL and its owners, the stockholders.
    
    I'd rather see pictures of happy customers and happy stockholders!
    
    Marge

If any employees are like me, we'll just toss a glossy brochure with a bunch of
children's pictures on it into the trashcan.

I would, however, read a straightforward, fact-laden, black-and-white
description of pay at Digital.

Vicki Meagher

    RE: .13
    
    Bullseye, Vicki !
    
    I suspect that most employees need no reminders of the fact that
    salary is important.  This type of "informative" brochure states
    the obvious and quickly ends up in the trash can.  With no disrespect
    to the author of the base note, who needs it?
    
    Claude A. Bench
    

    RE: .14
    
>    I suspect that most employees need no reminders of the fact that
>    salary is important. 

	Well, if you review what the author of .0 said, she indicated that it
	is a reminder to managers (?) of the importance of what people do with
	their pay and that it [pay] seems to be spent  on family.

	If you read some of Uncle Ken's state of the company messages he
	always talks about how important it is to each of us as employees
	to take care of our families... (even when putting in that extra 
	long month ..)

	
>   This type of "informative" brochure states
>   the obvious and quickly ends up in the trash can.  With no disrespect
>   to the author of the base note, who needs it?
    
   	What is obvious to you or I is not necessarily obvious to someone
	with either self imposed job preasure or preasure from peers or 
	management to perform/complete-it/on-time ... How many times did 
	or have you sacraficed something personel fork something at work. 

	Digital does not *really* want us to be work-a-holics neglecting
	everything else at the greater cost to our own health or our
	families happiness..
    

	Was it in this note that someone else said Lighten up ? 

/Ted

Re .13

>If any employees are like me, we'll just toss a glossy brochure with a bunch of
>children's pictures on it into the trashcan.
 
YOU ARE CORRECT VICKI-I EXPECT 90% OF THESE BROCHURES ENDING UP IN A TRASH 
BIN WITHIN FEW DAYS OF THE PUBLICATION.. WHO WANTS TO SEE SOME CHILDRENS 
PICTURES ANY WAY- EXCEPT FOR THE CHILDRENS PARENTS OF COURSE. FINALLY WHO 
MAKES THE DECISION WHICH PICTURE WILL BE INCLUDED AND WHICH WILL NOT BE 
INCLUDED ? WILL THERE BE A LOTTERY TO SELECT THE PHOTOS. WHAT IS THE CRITERIA 
USED FOR SELECTION PROCESS ? WHAT IF THEY RECEIVE 100,00 PHOTOS. WILL THERE 
BE A LOTTERY TO DETERMINE THIS ?
         
50 CENTS A BROCHURE- 150,000 BROCHURES?? ( WE ALWAYS OVER PRINT) $ 75,000 
DOWN THE DRAIN- JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS A JOB TO DO TO SPEND THIS MONEY. 
SOMEONE SAID - LIGHTEN UP ! WELL HOW CAN I ? PARTICULARLY WHEN WE ARE TELLING 
THE IMPORTANT S/CMPs AND ISVs THAT WE CANNOT PRINT THE PRODUCT BROCHURES
TO MAKE A SALE, SINCE WE ARE ON A STRICT COST CONTROL PROGRAM.  

>I would, however, read a straightforward, fact-laden, black-and-white
>description of pay at Digital.
 
YES! THIS IS ONLY AN INTERNAL DOCUMENT. HENCE ALSO BELIEVE A SIMPLE BLACK 
AND WHITE PAPER STATING THE FACT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT. IF THE MOTIVE WAS TO 
GIVE THE INFORMATION TO THE EMPLOYEES, I WONDER WHAT IS THE NEED FOR GLOSSY 
BROCHURE.         

I ALREADY HAVE LOT OF GLOSSY CHRISTMAS CATALOGUES WITH PICTURES OF CHILDREN.
I DON'T NEED ONE MORE..

    
    
    Re: .-1
    
    	Yeah,And I don't listen to people who SHOUT! :-(
    
    I read *everything* I get,you never know when something important
    may come up.
    
    Tomg
    

    
    I think .16 should SHOUT!  We all should when we see this kind of
    WASTE!  Whats $75K?  Not much until you start combining it with
    the other WASTE going on.  When we she this waste we must shout.
    Who else will?
    
    I'm a manager, I don't need comic books to read what a salery is
    about.  For those that need comic books [read paper with pictures]
    we need to fill their position with someone competent to do the
    job.
    ed
    

    Re 666.0
    
    They are talking about a video also to spread the message. Are they 
    recruiting the employees for this or using professional models..
                             
    I wonder how much it will cost to produce a video ?
    
    Who is going to see the video any way ???
    
    

    I wonder how many of those surveyed who say they do not receive
    enough information on their pay have seen and read the excellent
    brochure "DIGITAL and YOU" subtitled "A Handbook for U.S. Employees
    of Digital Equipment Corporation.
    
    Everything you ever wanted to know about working at DEC in the U.S.
    is right there... salary is on page 24.
    
    My copy carries the notation "revised June 1986 Catalogue
    #EB-29051-86".  It still is current from what I can see. 
    
    Inside the front cover is a synopsis of the booklet: "Digital and
    You contains general information about Digital -- including Personnel
    policies and philosophies, your paycheck, advancement opportunities,
    benefits, employee services -- and explains company and employee
    responsibilities.  Much of the handbook summarizes and elaborates
    on material detailed in the U.S. Personnel Policies and Procedures
    manual, which is available for your review from your manager,
    supervisor, or Personnel Department."  (This must have been before
    the Orangebook was put on VTX as well.)
    
    Marge

Re .20:

If that is the brochure I recall, it has marvelous photos of employees at work.
The photos are what make the brochure memorable for me.  In fact, I like them so
much that I've been wondering throughout this whole debate why we need to obtain
new ones, although that shouldn't be the expensive part of the process.

However, I prefer to read such information directly from the online PP&P manual.
I regret that not everyone in the corporation has the same opportunity.
				/AHM

    Seems to me the money would be better spent keeping the Commuter
    Van Pool running.  People may have to find pay from another company
    when this program terminates around ~July.

    It seems that most of us want to know the answer to this question.
    "What problem will this brochure solve?"
    
    I'd really like to know that.
    
    /tb/

>   <<< Note 666.23 by HPSCAD::FORTMILLER "Ed Fortmiller, MRO1-3, 297-4160" >>>
>                        -< What happened to .0 & .11? >-

    They appear to have been deleted. I assume they were deleted by the
    author. I would guess that after the easy going reaction his request
    recieved in other conferences he didn't see any point in remaining
    here. Can't say that I blame him. He's just trying to do the job
    assigned him and getting beat up for it.
    
    			Alfred
    

>    They appear to have been deleted. I assume they were deleted by the
>    author. I would guess that after the easy going reaction his request
>    recieved in other conferences he didn't see any point in remaining
>    here. Can't say that I blame him. He's just trying to do the job
>    assigned him and getting beat up for it.
    
A shame.  I would have hoped this discussion would have encouraged him 
to go back to his management and ask the same questions, that's the 
DEC <I> know (sigh).
    

    I agree with Jeff!  Can all of us just blindly follow management's
    idea?  Some questinoing is needed to prevent waste.
    But then again , I guess some people just don't care.
    ed
    

          <<< HUMAN::DISK$HUMAN_WRKD:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DIGITAL.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< The DEC way of working >-
================================================================================
Note 666.26              Photos needed for DEC brochure                 26 of 27
BINKLY::WINSTON "Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA)"          11 lines   1-DEC-1988 13:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>    They appear to have been deleted. I assume they were deleted by the
>    author. I would guess that after the easy going reaction his request
>    recieved in other conferences he didn't see any point in remaining
>    here. Can't say that I blame him. He's just trying to do the job
>    assigned him and getting beat up for it.
    
> A shame.  I would have hoped this discussion would have encouraged him 
> Zto go back to his management and ask the same questions, that's the 
> DEC <I> know (sigh).
    
  

I also hoped that the discussion would prevent such a waste. Well ! the
author has chosen to delete his/her messages in 666.0 and 666.11. I have
a hard copy as well as the eletronic copy of the message. (I happened to
extract them , before it got deleted !!!

    RE: last several

    I have no reason to believe that the author of .0 and .11 did not
    bring the complaints to his management. I know I would have. If you
    really want to know why they were deleted ask the person who deleted
    them. You might also ask for his management so you can complain 
    directly. The responsible people will be unlikely to hear/see your
    complaints otherwise.

    			Alfred

flame on

Given what, in my opinion, approaches a lynch mob attitude in this
particular discussion, I would have deleted my request, too, if it
had been mine. Frankly, I was somewhat embarrassed to read the ad
hominem very-close-to-personal attacks directed against what may or
may not be a reasonable request. 

The degree of self-righteousness exhibited in here was pretty 
remarkable.

flame off

John H.

    re .30:	I agree 100%.
    
    -Monty-

    re .30: lynch mob attitude
    
    I was not out to lynch anyone.  I was just letting them know my
    dissatisfaction with the proposal. It's not often we get a chance
    to yell before the waste (as some of us see it) happens.

    I don't believe that this is a yelling contest. The author of 666.0
    wanted some photographs for a DEC brochure and many felt that, such
    a brochure is a wasteful expenditure. 
    
    I think every one is entitled to voice their constructive differing
    views as to,how they felt about this brochure. If such differing view 
    points are not welcome, then why have this notes file at all..I feel 
    this notes file is a good suggestion box scheme.
    
    I am sure many chiefs who may be reading this notes file perhaps
    may feel the same way about wasting money. ( only differnce is that
    they dont reply to these notes file for various reasons..).
    

    I can confidently say, that the total value of person-hours taken to
    read all the replies to this particular topic by all the digital
    employees greatly exceeds the budget of this particular brochure. 
    
- Vikas

    All of the estimates bellow are way bellow the real figures. This also
    does not take into consideration disk, network and CPU costs. 
    
    10,000 (estimated readers) * 1/10 (hour) = 1000 reader-hours
    			@ $50.00 per hour Total Waste = $50K

666.0: "Hey, I'm gonna knit you a nice wool sweater! You got any favorite
	designs you'd like worked in?

666.1-10: "Don't bother - I'm allergic to wool, and I wouldn't wear it, so it
	would be a waste of your effort.  But if you want to help, I could
	use a good cotton shirt.  That would keep me just as warm, and it
	would cost you a lot less!"

666.11: (Leaves in silence, no response)

666.12ff: "Hey, why did you insult him like that?  That was a pretty 
	inconsiderate thing to do!"

    Re: .36
    
    Your 666.1-10 is incorrect...please don't count my .1 in that group, I
    was just asking a question and I wish to take no part either pro
    or con in this particular issue.  (No flames intended...just want
    to get the record straight.)
    
    Thank you,
    
    Doug

	RE: .35 I think you estimate of the number of readers of this
	conference is a bit high. I doubt there are more then 2-3000
	people who read this conference. Few of them read every note
	and , I'll bet, fewer still read every reply in this topic.

	Still there are people who concider this conference a waste.
	There are also a lot of people who concider non-work related
	conferences a waste.

			Alfred

    addendum to .38;
    
    There are also a large number of people within Digital who feel
    that since *they* don't use/want/believe in notes conferences, why
    should anyone need/want/use them.
    
    To all:  Please don't try to foster your values/ideas/beliefs on
    others; certainly question wherever you feel it's appropriate, but
    just because *you* see no value in something doesn't mean it's
    worthless.  And please, don't shoot the messenger.

    The point of the exercize was to show the everyone has a different idea
    when it comes to defining waste.  In this cost-cutting time, people
    seem to be too eager to show extraneous expenditure AS LONG AS it not
    there pet activity.  It is also very common to hold the belief that
    something should not be funded unless it directly benefits them.
     
- Vikas

    On the assumption that SOAPBOX is the "well-known" conference .40
    refers to, I think that conference provides an extremely important
    service to the corporation:
    
    1. It provides an object lesson on behavior to avoid in other
    conferences.
    
    2. It provides a harmless place for people to let off steam, thus
    reducing steam in other conferences.
    
    3. It provides moderators with a place to send people who are unwilling
    or unable to stay within the conventions of other conferences.
    
    4. It provides an un-harmable object-of-scorn when one is needed, such
    as for this note.
    
    All-in-all, a valuable service. SOAPBOX's value isn't in the content of
    the conference, but rather in its mere existence.

    Kind of like the New York hotel who had "Joe Doe" on their payroll.
    Every time a customer complained about something, Joe was summoned.
    The manager pulled himself up to his full height, worked up a fierce
    glare, and bellowed "Joe! This will never happen again!  You're
    fired!". 
    
    Joe trudged back to his room to watch the tube and await his next
    summons.

    Re: .43
    
    Right!  See how well it works?

    Re:  [All]

    I just finished reading all the replies and I noticed an apparent
    negative attitude throughout.  While one could argue whether each re-
    ply was pro, con, or indifferent to the author's request, 'no one'
    supplied any assistance other than an 'opinion' regarding whether
    the author's request was reasonable or not.  Why pick on the author?
    Send a letter to the Board of Directors if you're 'that' concerned.

    -- Rob