Conference 7.286::digital

    RE .0
    
    I ask my wife who is involved with personnel issues at another company
    to answer this as she has had to deal with this type of problem at
    other employers.  This is an issue that is not unique to DEC.  What
    follows are her answers to the questions.
    
        
    >Is this acceptable behavior for a unit manager?
    
    NO, no employee, manager or otherwise, should treat another employee
    that way.

    >Would ignoring this attack condone this and future outbursts?
    
    YES
    
    >What recourse, if any, does the employee have?
    
    >Assuming some corrective action - what is the proper way to
    >escalate the matter?
    
    The employee should go talk to the manager in a calm manner,
    preferably not immediately after the incident.  He/she should explain
    how the outburst made the employee feel (humiliated,embarrased,
    incompetent etc).  The employee should also tell the manager how
    he/she expects to be treated ("I'm not perfect and can take criticism
    and expect to be told in a calm, non-threatening manner in private,
    the same as you would want to be treated", etc).
    
    My experience is that this type of conversation gets the program
    back on track.  If the manager continues to act like a jerk, it
    needs to get escalated to the manager's manager.  If that doesn't work
    go to Human Resources (or elsewhere if it's appropriate.)  However,
    the employee does owe the manager one chance to discuss and correct
    the situation befor escalating.
    
    >It seems that the number one "sin" a manager can commit is the
    >public ridicule and humiliation of a subordinate. If such a manager
    >holds his charges with this amount of esteem - should he be given
    >career power over others?
    
    Every person is human and will make mistakes.  If this is the
    first incident and it doesn't happen again, he/she does deserve
    to be forgiven.  Most managers that I consider to be good have made
    some colassal mistakes of this type in their career.  What made
    them better was that they learned from them and never did it again.
    If the manager makes a habit of this, upper management needs to
    be informed in order to take appropriate action.
    
    >Both the employee and the manager have been damaged. Private apologies
    >at this point, can not ease the tension and uncertainty created
    >by this unfortunate situation.
    
    If this was the first incident and the manger apoligizes, they
    should both be able to put it behind them.  They're both human and
    I can't believe the employee never did something stupid.  Private
    apologies should ease the tension.  Again, this is assuming a one
    time incident.
    
    >If this is an example of the "new digital" style of management -
    >then it is a sad day for us all.
    
    Employees can help in general by responding to the situation
    based on the facts.  A one time deal, properly apologized for-forgive
    and forget and learn from it (don't do it when you become a manager).
    An ongoing problem-escalate to the proper level and let it be taken
    care of.                                  
    
    
    I could not have said it better. - Lee G.

    Re:  625.0

    > Is this acceptable behavior for a unit manager?

    Certainly not!!  Not for a unit manager and not for ANY responsible,
    intelligent, effective manager (I'm sure KO would agree with me).  Any
    half-wit manager can tell you that degrading a subordinate in "public"
    is the worst thing that one could possibly do.  The manager ends up
    looking like a complete a** and the subordinate becomes defensive and,
    as you stated, there is not much that can be salvaged from the attack.

    > Would ignoring this attack condone this and future outbursts?

    I don't believe so.  If the manager does not act responsibly and admit
    fault in "public", the employee, by ignoring the outbursts, sets the
    example by not allowing the manager to control the situation.  Each time
    the manager displays such an immature and negative attitude he/she only
    precipitates his/her demise and that of the unit as a whole.  Negativity
    begets negativity.

    > What recourse, if any, does the employee have?

    I (my opinion) believe a responsible and intelligent employee would pull
    the !@#$ manager aside and express his/her reaction to the outburst.
    Not in terms that can only be described with expletives (this will only
    put the manager on the defensive), but on a more personal level.  Use
    constructive criticism.  Admit to the mistake if one was made, but explain
    in assertive, not demanding, language that you do not appreciate being
    publicly humiliated.  This should NOT be done immediately.  Give the
    manager some time to fully realize the mistake that was made.  Pull the
    manager aside, preferably in a closed-door conference room and have at
    it in a very constructive manner.  COMMUNICATION is the answer.  To have
    successful two-way communication, neither party can be in a defensive
    posture or feel threatened in any way.  Maybe if someone else in the
    unit felt strongly enough about the matter, they could intervene.  This
    may/may not be viewed as being less threatening.  I would attempt direct
    communication with the manager before seeking any other alternatives.
    This has always worked for me.

    > Private apologies at this point, can not ease the tension and uncer-
    > tainty created by this unfortunate situation.

    That is the manager's fault and responsibility.  A private apology to the
    employee concerned would be helpful, but would not heal the wounds within
    the unit.  The manager's only recourse would be to apologize publicly for
    his/her actions.  There could be a number of reasons why the manager acted
    in that manner, but only a responsible manager would see the mistake and
    take the necessary corrective measures (i.e., "EAT CROW").


    /s/ Robert R. Johnson, one responsible manager

        I modified the title of the base note (625.0) because I
        was offended to see the word I replaced with "[removed]"
        appear in this conference.
        
        If I were not a moderator, I would have sent MAIL to the
        moderators, asking that the title be changed.
        
        I think the discussion can continue without specific knowledge
        of the particular word used.
        
Jim Stratton (co-moderator, DIGITAL conference)
        

    In my experience, the best reply an emplyoyee can give in this
    situation is, "Let's continue this discussion in your [the manager's]
    manager's office...now."
    
    Having been in a similar (though not abusive) situation, that kooled
    the fires really quickly.
    
    BobW
    

    e agree with .4 suggestion....with one modification.  if possible
    have the meeting in a neutral place...like an unoccupied conference
    room.  the mgrs. office is HIS/HER territory.
    
    tony

    Re:  .4 and .5

    Tony, I think Bob (correct me if I'm wrong) is referring to the
    manager's boss' office.

    I would agree if it had not been for the fact that a majority of
    the office also heard the discussion.  This may work, but it could
    also backfire.  The victim (employee) may emerge the victor in the
    eyes of fellow employees, but the manager will be severely scarred.
    This may appear to be OK, but I think the welfare of the entire
    office would suffer as a result.  An office can only be as effective
    as its manager and a manager only as effective as his/her office.
    The lines of communication must remain open if the office and the
    manager are to work together and grow together.  To 'haul' the manager
    into his/her boss' office would only perpetuate the problem (in this
    instance, I believe).

    I hope all this has helped.  Let us know the outcome.

    -- Holding my breath....

       Rob :^)

    
    
    Thanks for all the advice (even the editted expletive).
    
    I pointed the accussed to this Note and replies.
    
    Having been an ear-witness to the first outburst and the visited
    employee in the second, my interest and concern must be limited
    to the impressions the incident left on the unwilling nonparticipants.
    
    This topic was never intended to be a blow-by-blow description
    of personal antagonisms. Rather, I was interested in a discussion
    of the ethics of the manager as applied to the managed.
    
    Would it have been any different had the manager said " you're a
    jerk" or "you clown" or any nonvulgar insult? Possibly. But it was
    the second occassion - the manager had an audience and seemed to
    feel that he was right in driving home his point - that did the
    most damage.
    
    Tension levels in the office have become noticable - folks have
    been treating both individuals with some trepidation. Can this ever
    be resolved with life getting back to normal?
    
    It was gratifying and enlightening to read the comments from an
    uninvolved but interested manager - thanks Rob. You seem to represent
    those qualities we have all been told are part of the "digital way
    of working".
    
    As to the final resolution of this matter - the incident has been
    elevated to personnel (by which route, I'm not sure). I did receive
    a call from the PR manager to give an account of what I heard/
    witnessed. I'll post a wrap-up on this when it happens.
    
    Gary 
        

Rule #1:

	Praise in public, criticize in private.

	All criticism should be done in private, as should all conversations
	that get heated.

	In my first month on the job, my manager had a knock-down drag-out
	on some technical issue with one of my coworkers in the middle of
	the office. I slinked out of the office as quick as I could.

eric

>>	In my first month on the job, my manager had a knock-down drag-out
>>	on some technical issue with one of my coworkers in the middle of
>>	the office. 
    
    This is where things can sometimes get sticky, because in Engineering,
    many times the manager/supervisor is also the 'lead' engineer because
    of experience, etc.  It's very tough, especially at design reviews,
    to separate the two functions from the one person.  Think about
    it - would you have been as upset/embarassed if the 'discussion'
    had involved a group/project leader instead of a manager?
    
    Bruce (who frequently has to remember which hat to wear)

    This note is old, but it is *very* relevant to what I know has happened
    in the past 4 months in a group at DEC, that I wanted to continue on
    the same topic rather than start a new one.
    
    RE .7
    
    Since you haven't posted a reply stating how the matter was finally
    resolved (especially since it was escalated to the personnel mgr), I
    presume that it has still not been resolved.  I would be very sad to
    hear that.
    
    =======================================
    
    Here's what happened to someone I know:
    
    She got yelled at by her manager in *her* office, in full hearing of
    many colleagues.  What's worse is that he was yelling at her for
    totally invalid reasons - telling her she was not performing well and
    doing a good job when in fact her supervisor had always told her that
    the performance was very good (and she had got a '2' rating in the
    previous performance review).
    
    There were other incidents that complete the story better and give a
    total picture, but I'll leave those out for the sake of brevity  and to
    concentrate on the point started by the base note.
    
    Being a mild mannered person, she was aghast and shocked.  Manager did
    not care even when she had tried speaking. A day later (enough time for
    the manager to realize his mistake and apologize), she went to the 
    site personnel mgr.  Personnel did not do much to find out the true
    depth of the situation (RE .7 there was no calling of other employees
    to get ear-witness accounts or determine the extent of the problem!!)
    
    P mgr tried downplaying her manager's fault.  Dragged the matter
    instead of addressing it in with all parties present in a room (said it
    was a touchy issue!!).
    
    ====================================================
    
    What would you do in such a situation ?  this is terribly hurting to
    the morale and self-respect of an  employee.  A person who can behave
    this  way should never be a manager with power of employees' future.
    
    I want to know what people feel about *how* Digital's policies and
    philosophy should be enforced in this case ?
    
    On a separate note:
    A lot of the earlier replies suggested that the employee should get a
    manager *later* into a conf room and tell him/her that this kind of
    behavior is not appreciated - and give the  mgr a chance.  Why should
    the employee have to do that ???  any mgr should himself realize that
    he ought to apologize publicly (since such behavior cannot be
    appreciated in a work place).  Why should the victim have to go and
    bring it to his attention ?
    
    - mayank
    

>> A lot of the earlier replies suggested that the employee should get a
>> manager *later* into a conf room and tell him/her that this kindof
>>behavior is not appreciated - and give the  mgr a chance.  Why should
>>the employee have to do that ???  any mgr should himself realize that
>>he ought to apologize publicly (since such behavior cannot be
>>appreciated in a work place).  Why should the victim have to go and
>>bring it to his attention ?
    
    Because managers are human too, and make mistakes. If one is determined
    fix a problem, then one should attempt the "face-to-face" approach
    first. If one is more interested in raising a stink, exacting revenge,
    or saving face, then one tends to skip the face-to-face in private
    approach in. The victim shouldn't HAVE to go and bring the problem
    to the manager to bring it to his attention, but if after the a
    short grace period, nothing is forthcoming, to NOT initiate a low-key
    patch up is to exacerbate the situation, and perpetuate hard feelings.
    
    Scooter                

    IMHO, the manager who was at fault should apologize in person to
    the offended employee.  Then issue a public apology for appearing
    callous and insensitive to the employee and to the others who were
    within hearing distance of the incident (I'm sure they didn't
    appreciate the incident).
    
    If that doesn't happen within a "proper" [your mileage may vary]
    timeframe, then use the open door policy to achieve restitution. 
    
    If none of these work then request a transfer to another unit, under
    a new manager.
    
    Jp
    

    I got savaged by my manager in an open meeting once... I don't think it
    will happen again, cost him a very expensive dinner.
    
    Grins

	I've had two situations happen to me, here's how I handled it:

	First:

	I was working with a contractor investigating a bug.  The supervisor
	came over and asked a couple of questions to which we hadn't found
	the answers to.  The contractor and I focused on answering the questions
	he had asked.  We found the answer to one and I went over to his
	office to give him an update, the manager was there also.  Before I
	got the answer to his intial question, he had asked me another.  I
	said I didn't know the answer to that one, but... (At this point he
	yelled, angrily "If you can't give me the answer, then get the hell
	out of here!!  I'll find it myself!!")  I stood there for a second,
	looked at my manager...and walked off.

	This was the first time I had ever been yelled at in an business
	environment.  When I walked off I considered the situation as
	objectively as possible:

		- The current environment was a little hot, supporting
			an Area's problem
		- Heat had been building up for a couple of days
		- Manager has difficulty communicating expectations
			(If he had ten hands, he'd do it all himself)

	So, with the understanding that it wasn't me, I talked to the manager
	about the supervisors yelling, to which he was a witness.  He said
	that he understood and would discuss it with the supervisor.  Situation
	handled...kinda...the supervisor has yelled at two others, since, in two
	other situations over a four month period.  On the last one, I was
	*very* close to standing up and telling him, calmly, "This is a
	work environment; yelling is unprofessional."  Should I do this next
	time?  Or just discuss it with the new manager, who has replaced the
	manager during my incident?
	


	Second:

	A few weeks before my old manager was to take a new position, I
	had approached him to let him know that I was looking.  He said
	thanks for letting him know and good luck in my search.  Within
	a week I had interviewed with another group in the building and
	they called my manager for a recommendation.  Apparently, this
	caught him by surprise and he was BULLS**T!!  He said that I didn't
	give him the courtesy of telling him that a call was coming and
	next time, if I want a good recommendation, I had better tell him!
	'End of discussion.', he said.  I wasn't able to get a word in 
	edgewise!!  I tried again and he said, "That's it!  End of discussion!"
	and he walked out of his office.  So, I went back to my cubie and
	pondered the situation:

		- I had informed my manager of my intent to leave
		- He had a week to consider what recommendation he might give
		- In the interview I wasn't told they would call him;
			not that that would have mattered as I had already
			informed him I was looking

	Anyway, about 4 hours later I went back to his office and tried
	to describe my side.  Again I got, 'If this is about the phone
	call, I don't want to discuss it!'.  I said, 'Yes it is.'  He said,
	'I said no more discussion, and I mean it!'  So I left...straight
	for personnel.  The personnel rep listened and said he wanted to
	get the manager's story.  After the personnel rep talked to my
	manager, he talked with me.  He said that my manager's was open
	to discussing it.  That I should go see him.  I thought to myself,
	'Why should I go to him?  I tried twice and was pushed off!  He
	should come to me, apology in hand, and listen.'  The personnel
	person didn't agree or disagree, just told me to cross the bridge
	again.  I said, he should come halfway.

	Well, I crossed the bridge and the manager listened and we came to
	an understanding, that I would tell him whenever I went on an 
	interview.

	I'm still confused and wonder about this.  To me, the manager has
	some control issues.  Also, I feel that the personnel person
	wimped out, maybe because the manager was leaving.  I looked at
	the policies manual and it states that I should inform my manager
	that I will be interviewing, not to tell him about each interview.
	Is it a courtesy to tell the manager about each interview?  Shouldn't
	the manager expect calls after being told that someone is looking?
	I don't look towards new positions often, so I'm a little niave
	about this.


	Dan

    re .15, while it would probably be good to verbally tell your manager
    that you are looking, I see it as mandatory to send him/her a mail
    message, maybe with 'return receipt' depending on your relationship
    with your manager.  Otherwise it could become a "I told you about
    that"/"no you didn't" discussion which neither of you will ever win.
    
    Regarding informing your manager of every interview, while not
    mandatory (at least according to my interpretation of the P&P), it
    would probably be a good idea, particularly if your relationship with
    your manager is decent to good.  Part of your manager's role is to help
    you with your career development, and if you inform your manager about
    an interview with group 'x', perhaps that manager would take time to
    discuss with you his/her opinion of what group 'x' does and how that
    may or may not fit into your career goals as he/she sees them.
    
    But again, this is idealistic, and we've all had managers who did not
    fit into an idealistic mold...
    
    Jon