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Conference azur::mcc

Title:DECmcc user notes file. Does not replace IPMT.
Notice:Use IPMT for problems. Newsletter location in note 6187
Moderator:TAEC::BEROUD
Created:Mon Aug 21 1989
Last Modified:Wed Jun 04 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:6497
Total number of notes:27359

323.0. "LTM capabilities??" by TROU47::SLEE () Wed Sep 12 1990 19:04

At present, a combination of a Lanbridge100/150 and LTM or LTM-Reports
can be used to provide LAN segment statistics.

With the Bridge AM, and now with the Performance Analyzer it's now possible
to generate statistics for our Lanbridges. The question now being, is LTM
or LTM-Reports still required to produce statistical reports, on such things
as bandwidth utilization, busiest nodes, top protocols? Or can this now be
accomplished by what's available with MCC1.1? That is of course, everything 
except the capability to produce this information in a graphical report.

I imagine the graphical reporting capabilities would, in the future, be
presented as a PM of some sort.

Can some insight or suggestions be provided?

BTW, I havn't seen any information on the PA/Historian in WORDY yet...any
news on when?


Steve

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
323.1Utilization with LB200+PAWLYWLD::BRIENENChris Brienen - DECmcc (non-DECnet) AMsWed Sep 12 1990 19:587
    Bandwidth utilization can be had in DECmcc V1.1 assuming that you:
    
    	1. Have MCC-PA and
    	2. the Bridge you're accessing is a LAN Bridge 200.
    
    Continue using LTM and LTM-Reports for stuff like busiest nodes and top
    protocols. This stuff isn't in V1.0 and will *not* be in DECmcc V1.1.
323.2LTM - blast from the pastNAC::ENGLANDThu Sep 13 1990 23:5688
    You might wonder what the big delay with LTM is all about... It may be
    related to LTM sales (the figures were disappointingly low when the
    product first came out, because the field was giving it away (minimum
    LTM price was around $15K for DEBET + s/w) or using it to sell
    services, or it could be that  the first release didn't have a real
    sexy user interface, except for those VT240 histograms (remember the
    VT240, anyone?  I thought not...).   I'm not sure because I haven't
    worked on LTM in 3 years.
    
    Some of the LTM functionality could be done quite well with MCC today,
    such as management of LTM itself.   Perhaps MCC has advanced far
    enough that some of the previous problems have gone away, I'll be 
    interested to see where we stand with it, but 2 1/2 years ago there
    appeared to be some technical obstacles to its integration with MCC.
    
    LTM  (formerly 911 monitor) is very different from some of the other 
    LAN management products such as RBMS and TSM, in the following
    respects:
    
    - LTM measures traffic for the entire (physical) Ethernet, not just one
      entity.
    
    - It's possible to have a bridge switch between LTM_mode and bridging
    mode (polymorphism), it could be confusing to both MCC and the end
    user if MCC doesn't have support for polymorphic global entities.
    
    - LTM outputs a tremendous volume of data (up to 3000 bytes / second),
    thereby straining the throughput and buffering capacity of the 
    database, CPU (if data reduction performed) and end-user, if
    he/she is forced to look at all of this data.  
    
    - It's hard to understand what the entity model for LTM might be.
    an LTM monitor can be thought of as an intelligent ethernet cable.
    Thus you might want to think of this device as part of a "wire"
    entity.  The traffic matrix would be counter data associated with
    relationships between nodes on that wire entity.  But wire entities
    were not that well accepted, because there were some very real
    problems with them:
    
    	- they have no address	
    	- they don't respond to directives (although LTM does)
    	- the "wire" looks different at each layer of the network,
    
    - You can have multiple monitors logging to the same host
    (i.e. one for each ethernet in the extended LAN).  This could
    potentially create quite a load on the host, without judicious
    load limiting.
    
    - The data arrives at such a high rate that the existing RMS-based
    MIR routines might not be able to log it all.  However, this may be
    a non-issue, LTM-Reports was able to log data at a reduced sampling
    rate (about 1/10th the rate that the monitor supports, if I'm not
    mistaken).
    
    - the LTM protocol uses both synchronous and asynchronous/multicast
    methods of transmitting data from the monitor to the host.
    While the asynchrony could be hidden from the MCC PM by an
    access module, the best use of the data would require some form
    of event mechanism to notify the data reduction FM(?).
    
    - the data does not easily conform to a strictly hierarchical model.
    For example, much of the data is accessible via 2-dimensional tables
    (such as traffic matrices), of very large size.  These tables
    might not easily fit into the existing callable interface.
    They could be divided up in some arbitrary way, but the fact remains
    that the ILV interface was not optimized for passing thousands of
    array elements across an interface (unless the entire array is passed
    as a single ILV value, creating the need for an "array" data type.
    
    Hence there was a strong temptation to avoid passing this data around
    MCC at all, by pushing data reduction functions into the access module,
    but this violates the layering of MCC, which implies that such
    functions should occur at the FM layer.  At least the FM ought
    to be on the same node as the AM, so that the minimum amount of 
    LTM data gets passed across system boundaries.
    
    
    
    For all these problems, LTM is exactly the kind of application that
    would really break MCC out of the pack, now that graphics interfaces
    and generic APIs are less of a differentiating factor for the 
    product.
    
    LTM would be very powerful if coupled with MCC alarms and MCC
    DECwindows PM, which would provide a very useful tool for navigating
    the vast amount of LAN monitoring data.  
    
    
323.3ALLZS::MORRISONThe Network IS the SystemFri Sep 14 1990 16:1713
    Ben, your analysis is pretty accurate for someone who has been away
from MCC for so long.  Some of the problems that you mention have been
solved, others can be worked around fairly easily, and still others are
probably part of the reason that there is no LTM AM in MCC.  I've put in
a bit of thought to the subject of LTM and MCC; you may want to contact me
offline if you're interested in pursuing this subject.

    FWIW:  You will be able to get some of the statistics that LTM provided
via the Bridge AM (using a LB200) and the Performance Analyzer FM in DECmcc
V1.1.  Utilization, via the LB200's byte counters will help fill the gap,
but it's still not even close to the total of what LTM provides.

						Wayne