Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    Ken,
    
    A belated "thank you" for fighting for us.
    
    Welcome home.
    
    Hugs,
    Barb

    Ken... Welcome home, don't be hurt after this long because of the
    stupidity of some... the problem with the people who act so is... that
    they have not experienced a war themselves... they have never lived
    under a dictatorship, or comunism... they would keep their MOUDS SHUT
    just to survive! they don't know much about life... only protest and at
    times they don't even know the reason or why they protest, but you see?
    to be rebelious is to be "cool" to be different than the norm is to be
    "cool" so they don't know any better!
    I have NOT experienced any war (thanks God) but have experienced
    different types of government a lot less permissive than the U.S. and
    believe me, I have lots of respect for ANY war survivor. They did their
    job, they did what was expected of them...
    I hate any kind of violence, and hate death and bloodshed, but if the
    country needs its forces the country should have them! I cannot aplaud war
    but I cannot stand cowardice either.  I am foreign born, but I don't,
    or cann't, condone America.  I have faith. 
    

    Ken,
    That was my time too.  Hugs, and more hugs, from one who opposed
    that war (then and still) but never the men who fought.  They (you)
    were faced with a choice that I, as a woman, was not faced with,
    and I knew it even then.
    My fault, my shame, is that I did not say so then except to the man who
    came home to me.  I offer my apology now, to you and to the others.
    It's not enough, I know that.  Maybe if enough of us try, we can avoid
    repeating the same mistake.
    Sara

    Ken, "Welcome home" from one who is frankly glad he didn't have 
    to go. And "thank you."
    
    Dana

    re.0
    
    I'm going to ask your indulgence here because what I going to try and
    say has been interpreted _so_ many times over the years ...
    
    During the Vietnam Era, I protested vociferously against the war.  The
    War ... NOT the soldiers fighting it.
    
    I never thanked anyone for fighting in Southest Asia as I didn't feel
    it was something to be thankful for.  HOWEVER, I did say _many_ times
    [and still do] that I supported and respected those who chose to go and
    fight, either by volunteering or by obedience, for standing by their
    principles and following their consciences.  I read to the blind in VA
    hospitals and spent many a late night holding someone while he cried or
    shivered.
    
    I had, and have, no respect, love or admiration for the stone-throwers
    and spitters.
    
    My feelings on hostilities in the Gulf are much the same.
    
    I has been argued that it is inconsistent to oppose wars, yet still
    support the soldiers who fight them.  Obviously, I do not agree.
    
    So...while you do not have my thanks for fighting; you have my respect.
    I am glad you came back. And I'm sincerely sorry that you feel you
    never came 'home.'
    
      Annie

    Ken, welcome home. Please write if you want to talk. I wasn't there.
    The military wouldn't take me. Medical problem. Old business. I'm glad
    I didn't have to go. However, let me state that while I never supported
    the war, I always supported the warriors. Our young women and men who
    fought there and our young women and men and some of the older ones who
    are fighting now. My father fought in China in the 1930's and I'll
    always be proud of him for that. My friends, those I know, those I have
    yet to meet and those I'll never have the chance to know will always
    have my support for doing a job that no one wants to do and doing it to
    the best of their abilities. Rest easy friend. I care.
    
    Phil

    Thank you, Ken...
    
    And Thank you to all the men and women in the Gulf at this time.
    
    I have great respect and admiration for all of you, who have ever 
    fought for the United States!
    
    Welcome Home too!
    
    Carol
    

    Thank you Ken, and every other man/woman soldier that has fought for
    our country, or to help another country.
    
    I just can't seem to understand these protester people.  I live in San
    Jose, CA, and this week two military recruiters have been shot at by the
    war protesters. Real good guys, fight violence with violence.  That's like
    the same people that say it's not ok to burn the american flag are out
    there burning abortions clinics down.  I'm very sad that our
    sons/daughters will shed blood and die for this war, but I do feel that
    we should most definately be there.  If half the protesters would open
    their minds to see more of the "big picture", maybe they would
    understand what our country is doing.  I'm tired of being upset with
    these sad excuses for American's, I now just pity them and their narrow
    shallow little minds.  
    
    Welcome home Ken, and I hope the rest of our people don't just come
    back, but come home to us.
    
    Kelly
    
    p.s.  I try to write a letter a day to Operation Desert Shield:
    
          Any Soldier/Airman
          Operation Desert Shield
          APO New York, NY  09848
    
                  or
    
          Any Sailor/Marine
          Operation Desert Shield
          FPO New York, NY  09866
    
    Let's not make the same mistake with these innocent kids, lets tell
    them that the general American public respects them and is proud to
    have them fight for what we as a nation believe in.
    
      

    There were some protesters near my facility this afternoon, situated
    in front of the Vo-Tech school, standing on a snowbank, very close to
    the road (a pretty busy road) and they were carrying signs, waving them
    perilously close to passing cars, screaming and even throwing snowballs
    into the traffic.  
    
    I believe in Americans' right to protest.    However, I
    think harassing passing motorists and making yourself a threat to the
    safety of yourself and others is taking it too far.  In my opinion 
    they have crossed the line and are infringing on the rights of those
    who have chosen not to demonstrate or protest.  
    
    I also personally feel that now that the decision has been made to 
    go to war, it is time to stand behind our country and support the men
    and women who are over there.  The war in Kuwait is a reality.  I guess
    I didn't realize how strongly I do feel about this.  
    
    Kim
    

All right, how does one support the troops when one thinks w,e're engaged in 
a foolish war entered into for the wrong reasons with inadequate 
considerations for the consequences (like glib assurances that it won't be
a prolonged war and gambling the entire strategy on Israel staying out of it). 

The troops aren't to blame, the military structure isn't even to blame.  
They carry out the orders we've issued. 
 
The ones who are to blame are a bunch of political leaders too stuffed 
with pride to make any concessions and too blind to see what was likely to
happen as a result of their actions -- and I'm talking about events that 
preceded the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, not what we've done since then.  
Things like the U.S. spending beaucoup $$$ building up Hussein's army and 
air force to beat up on Iran without thinking that when he was done with 
Iran, he'd want somebody else to beat up on.

But the people who started the war aren't the people who are going to pay
the price.  

I certainly don't blame the soldiers.  But what do I say?  "Thank you for 
dying to preserve our nation's addiction to oil?  Thank you for risking 
your life to make sure the power balance doesn't change?  Thank you for 
coming home maimed to satisfy national pride?  Thank you, widows and 
orphans, for giving your loved ones to restore the rightful Kuwaiti 
oligarchy so they can continue to disband their legislature and silence 
their press?"  

--bonnie

>>
The troops aren't to blame, the military structure isn't even to blame.  
They carry out the orders we've issued. 
 
The ones who are to blame are a bunch of political leaders too stuffed 
with pride to make any concessions and too blind to see what was likely to
happen as a result of their actions -- and I'm talking about events that 
preceded the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, not what we've done since then.  
Things like the U.S. spending beaucoup $$$ building up Hussein's army and 
air force to beat up on Iran without thinking that when he was done with 
Iran, he'd want somebody else to beat up on.
>>

	Democracy has its responsibility. You are to blame. 
	Don't shirk the responsibility, they are your government, your troops,
	products of your culture. So you don't like what they've done? 
	thats too bad, because they're  still yours.

    even if they are still ours, it does not mean that we have to
    blindly support everything the government does.
    
    bj

    When I first wrote this note I was trying to say was don't blame the
    people who are doing the fighting for the decision of going to war.
    
    They are following orders, right or wrong, I don't know.
    
    What I am starting to see on the news and reading in different notes
    files is people are going to protest againest these young men and
    women.  They are going to haress and do anything in their power to hurt
    them.  They will cause all types of disruptive actions to anyone who
    gets in the way.  Many of them could care less about the war, people,
    or anything else.  They just want to get there face on TV, in a
    newspaper, or thier name on the radio.
    
    This is one person who will not particpate in any demostations.  Who
    will do everything in his power to support the men and women in this
    war.  One other more thing, I promise, if any person or persons
    puts a sign in my face or causes me any disruption in my life or my
    families life while they are doing their protestting. They will be 
    walking alittle different because I will shove their sign right up 
    their ***.  "Flame Off"
    
                 

    I find your espousal of violence against those who disagree with you to
    be extremely offensive.
    
    -- Mike

    Ken,
    
    I believe that the protesters are protesting against the
    administration's policies, not the men and women themselves who are in
    the war zone, or who may be sent to the war zone.  I 100% support the
    troops.  I don't support the policies.  There is a difference.
    
    I have seen a lot of notes to this effect in this and in other files.  
    
    sue

re: .11

Yes, they're still mine.  I did what I could to stop them. I supported a 
candidate in the last election whom I thought would try to help make 
wiser decisions about our "Any enemy of our enemies is a friend of ours" 
attitude and policy, I prayed for peace, advocated peace, and sent letters
for peace -- but our incredibly short-sighted "leadership" chose war.  

You won't see me in any violent demonstrations; violence against violence
is just as wrong as violence for greed or advantage.  You won't see me in
any demonstrations against the armed services.  You might see me at a 
candlelight vigil or a prayer meeting, but that's about it.  

I want to support the men and women who are fighting there, but I repeat,
what do I say?  I'm having trouble even thinking of the 19 and 20 year 
olds I know over there as men and women, they seemed so young a month ago.
They were so young a month ago.  We're robbing them of life and limb and
future, and for what? 

Suppose they'd appreciate a card full of tears?

--bonnie

    Mike,
    	I am sorry you find my note offensive.
    
    "FLAME ON'
    
    	I found it offensive when I came back that there was a demonstration
    at the airport and I told that I was a BABY KILLER.  Had people spit at
    me as I walked to get my luggage because I had my uniform on.  Had
    people throwing things at me and my parents as we walked to our car.
    
    	Had friends tell me that I should have gone to Canada and now they
    didn't want to be seen with me.  Saw day after day people doing the
    samething to men and women that I served with.
    
    	I found it offensive that I lost close friends and some people said
    that it was their fault that they died and they care.
    
    
    	I found it offensive that I was told that I should walk with my
    head down and be ashamed that I have served my country.  That I should
    have to suffer constant abuse from people and their narrow minds.
    
    	Mike, now that I think about it I really don't give a damm if you
    find my note offensive.  I have been paying and paying for over 20
    years for what I did.  I will not it let happen to another generation of
    young men and women.
    
    "FLAME OFF"
    
    	Mike have a good day.
    
                                        

    Will those who hold different points of view on the war, and on
    protesting the war, please keep the flamage down and talk in
    "I" messages. 
    
    Bonnie J
    =wn= comod

    I am genuinely sorry for the things that have happened to you.

    However, your advocacy of violence against someone simply because they
    say or do something that you don't like is *precisely* the sort of
    macho mentality that is behind this war, and that is precisely what we
    in the peace movement are working to oppose.

    If being macho enough to beat the shit out of someone else makes you
    feel like a man, then I am afraid that I disagree with your definition
    of manhood.

    -- Mike

    Mike,
    
    	What am saying is do what ever you want but don't try to force your
    ideas on me by disrupting my life.  I will not go looking for a fight,
    I have done all the fighting I ever wanted to do.  But on the other
    hand if someone decides to demostrate by some of the tatics used today
    and they directly effect me, I will do something about it.  It's not
    being macho, it has more to with protecting my space.
    
    	This whole war is causing more pain in my life.  I thought I had 
    this pain buried deep inside of me.  This will be my last note on the 
    subject as it is doing me no good, all it is doing is causing more 
    stress in my life.
    
    Mike have a good day.
                

    Ken, I am sorry for the hurt that this war (and the previous one) has
    brought you.  This issue is a sensitive topic for all parties, and as a
    result people tend to say and do things in the heat of anger.
    
    -- Mike

    I second Bonnie's request for fewer flames and more understanding. 
    
    							=maggie

    
    I was too young to remember much about the Vietnam War, except that
    various family friends wore MIA bracelets and someone I knew said he
    woke up in a body bag.
    
    And of course we were not taught much about the war in school.  What
    we did learn was typical US imperialism, We're The Greatest Country
    On This Planet, the usual propaganda.
    
    My understanding, and I don't pretend to ever know what you and your
    colleagues experienced, Ken, has come solely from books, movies, and
    talking with Vietnam vets, many of whom are reluctant to go into the
    details at any great length (in my experience).
    
    One thing I would like to ask you:  Did you feel "Born on the 4th of
    July" depicted reality?  I cried throughout that movie.  I was
    catapulted into scenes and emotions my imagination couldn't conjure
    on its own.  I would like to know if, just a little, I saw reality.
    (And yes I realize it was from the comfort of my living room.)
    
    The injustice you experienced was and is terrible.  I home some day
    you do feel you're home.  I wish I could wave a magic wand and make
    it so.
    
    I strongly believe that George Bush, or whichever leader sends young
    women and men into war, should have to clean up all of their bodies,
    dig their graves, and volunteer at veteran's hospitals.  Maybe if he
    had to see and touch the real consequences his decisions, his power
    games, his thirst for foreign blood ...
    
    Carla
    

re: .10 (Bonnie)

    Say you're hoping for their safe and swift return, and that your heart
    goes out to them and their families in these trying times.

    That's non-political - and, I think, a fairly universal sentiment.
    I'm sure that there are lots of military personnel over there who have
    the same doubts you do about Bush's handling of the whole affair, so
    don't feel you have to espouse the hawk line to support our troops.
    Sure, it's nice to be told "you're doing the right thing", but I think
    there's also a real need (especially considering Vietnam, and the 
    protests now) for them to know that people care about them.

    The political difference is really minor.  Pure "hawks" want them to 
    win the war and come home.  Pure "doves" don't think they should have
    been sent there in the first place.  The result is the same: both 
    groups want them safely home.  You can be sure that's what they want, 
    too.

	Sharon

    I'm feeling pretty fragile right now.
    
    I _hate_ this war!
    I imagine most people do; so, no, that's not the reason ...
    
    I _loath_ violence!  It makes me ill.
    
    I feel that it is grossly unjust to lump together _all_ who oppose war
    and violence as spitters, rock-throwers, name-callers, and vessels of
    hatred against other human beings.
    
    I am none of these things and I oppose this war.
    
    It is equally unjust to lump together _all_ who are soldiers as
    baby-killing sadists who become orgasmic when they make a kill.
    
    My father, my cousin, my friends are none of these things and yet they
    are or have been soldiers.
    
    It hurts me deeply that my voice for peace cannot be heard by some
    without some 'filter' telling them that I want them dead or that they
    are non-human.
    
    Such is not my desire. This is not in my heart or in my words.
    
      Annie
    

    War is described as being violent.  I am wondering if it is considered
    to be less violent, or non-violent for the U.S. and other countries to
    participate in the embargo of supplies into Iraq, when the outcome is
    that an embargo won't force SH out of Kuwait.  What I picture happening
    is that SH would continue to feed his soldiers, and all non-military
    citizens of the country would eventually starve to death.  Women and
    children would clearly be at the top of the list of those to whom food
    would be denied.  Elderly too.  Is this not some form of violence?   
    It might not be dropping bombs on military installations in Iraq, but 
    somehow this option doesn't feel any better to me. 
                                                                       
    Laura      

    re .26 I remember seeing somewhere that Iraq is pretty self-
    sufficient in re. food. The embargo was primarily focused on
    medicines and other technology. (And, yes, you can bet that
    the military will get first dibs on any that is left or gets
    past the embargo.) Since there were and are some who still sell 
    to Iraq despite the embargo, it wasn't very effective. Darn shame.

re: .24

Thank you very much, Sharon.  Yes, I can say that honestly, from the bottom
of my heart.  

I think at this time when war has broken out but the ground troops are still
waiting they probably need more comfort even than before.  I'm afraid
they'll interpret an absence of letters as disapproval.  Even if they 
can't get mail for several days, I imagine it would be good to know it's 
there waiting.

--bonnie

    I was appalled at the way the average soldier was treated by some
    people during the Vietnam Conflict. I didn't approve of it then;
    I wouldn't approve of it now. Throwing stones, calling names, spitting
    and worse are totally unacceptable acts.
    
    BUT I don't believe our troops should BE there, and somehow, I need to
    be able to say that without them thinking I harbor enmity against THEM.
    
    On the other hand, I don't expect to hear *them* call protesters names
    and resort to physical violence, either. Each follows hir own
    conscience. Whether you agree or not, you must respect that.
    
    --DE
    

    Please see 593.178