Conference turris::womannotes-v3

    People who slam the door as they leave

    re:  door slammers

    People who can't be adult enough to recognize they have been hurt
    and stick around long enough to work through their hurt.

    People who slam the door more than once, just in case we missed it the
    first time.  Yah!  So There!  Phfftfth!  I don't need you any more than
    I needed my mommy, so there!  Phfftfth!
    
    Briana

    Attendees of large-group meetings who insist on carrying on their own
    conversations rather than listening to the scheduled presentation. 
    Even worse, attendees of large-group meetings who ask the presenter a
    question, then carry on their own conversations with people around them
    rather than listen to the answer.
    
    Karen

    Whole strings of notes from V2 entered in V3...

    
    Me. I'm my own hot button. I make myself so mad sometimes.
    
    Dorian

    People who call my number... discover they misdialed, and HANG UP in my
    ear when they don't hear a voice they recognize.  

    Tail-gaters!
    
    People who call my house and *insist* that their doctor is there,
    because they think they've called an HMO.
    
    People who call my house and hang up without speaking, no doubt when
    they realize they didn't call the HMO.
    
    Obscene phone calls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Obscene phone calls. I got one last Saturday from a teenage girl. At
    least I hope she was just a teenager. I tried to stop her and yes, I
    have tried to stop the boys who called in the past. I got blasted with
    obscenities and sensed total anger in voice when I was just trying to
    explain the dangers of such practice. Later someone, probably the same
    person, called and just hit the number buttons in my ear. This was
    mildly astonishing. THe boys would usually just hang up and never call
    again after I tried a calm, rational explanation on the evils of prank
    calling.
    
                                  Phil

And if they call right back, take the phone off the hook for several hours.
They'll get tired of trying.

As for computer phone calls, I gleefully await for their recording device 
to activate and then make inane noises.  Often I'll get a polite,
computer voice saying "thank you" after squealing like a pig.  I figure,
they made me get out of my chair, they can listen to some garbage, too.

    
    	Today's ride South on rt. I495, the older fellow who couldn't 
    	make up his mind how fast he was going to go!!! He passed me
    	8 times between exits 22 and 18. I was going a steady 58-60
    	and one minute he would fly by me, the next he was doing 45-48
    	and I'd pass him!! 
    
    	Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    re: .15 (JARETH::EDP)
    
    Are you suggesting that the two notes are contradictory?
    
    Steve

    re .15, yes, but they *didn't* beat me up!  Each one grabbed me
    by one of my arms and dragged me down the stairs.  I certainly didn't
    like it!  And I yelled and struggled!  But, neither one of them
    *hit* me or *slapped* me! And, neither one of them ever bothered
    me again!  
    
    If I had been a man in the men's military and acted up the way I
    did when I was in the Wacs, there is no doubt in my mind that I
    would have had the sh*t kicked out of me!  Probably by both the
    other guys and the sergeant.   One of the only reasons I dared act
    the way I did is because I knew women aren't usually physically
    violent.  
    
    Have you ever seen "Full Metal Jacket" or even "Biloxi Blues" for
    that matter to get an idea how guys who don't fit into the military
    are treated????  It's a lot worse than being dragged down a flight
    of stairs.  
    
    I agree it was on the violent side, but I still wasn't beat up.
     I didn't get hit and there wasn't a mark on me.  It hurt by pride
    more than anything else when those girls dragged me down the stairs
    in front of the rest of the platoon.
    
    So, I don't think I'm being contradictory.
    
    Lorna
    

	I get so upset every time someone uses the spelling "strate" for
	straight meaning not homosexual. It is annoying. I try real hard
	to take in valuing differences and use "gay" and "lesbian" and I
	wish others would take have as much respect of my wishs in how I
	want to be refered as. Straight will do. Strate is insulting. Neither
	is really all that great.

	Flame no off because I'm a lot more upset then this note indicates.

			Alfred

    I don't like "strate," either.  
    
    But then, "straight" makes no sense at all and sounds very prudish -- 
    like, not only are you heterosexual, but you would probably engage in 
    sex only in the missionary position, do it as quickly as possible, and 
    try not to enjoy it!  (Who comes up with these things, anyway?)  
    
    And while "heterosexual" is too much of a mouthful, "het" sounds awful, 
    too -- too much like "hit" or like you are about to call me "Hettie!"  
    Yuk!
    
    So there's *no* term I like that denotes a heterosexual woman.
    
    Furthermore, it saddens me that we can no longer use "gay" to mean
    "happy and carefree."  Perhaps it's a small price to pay so that a
    persecuted group can select its own name and not be called the
    derogatory words, but it saddens me, nevertheless.
    
    
     

    re: het vs. strait vs. straight vs. heterosexual vs. vanilla.....
    
    If enough people want to discuss this topic, it could spin out on its
    own.....
    
    -Jody
    

Look girls, enough of this stuff. The birdcage analogies..the endless
complaints about "male violence". Everybody knows that womannotes is a
place for women to piss and moan about men.

Look here. It's 1990. Stop with the "oppression" business already. If women
could *do* these things, they'd be *doing* them. 

If women could make music as well as men, they'd be equally represented in
major symphony orchestras. We'd have *heard* about some women composers.

If women could run countries as well as men, they'd be doing it. The
public would be voting women into office.

If women could be CEO's they *would* be. Look at all the affirmative action
laws that allow inferior women to take jobs that men need. If they get
that much of a boost and still can't make it, they obviously weren't cut
out to do it.

And stop with the complaining about women being "battered". If they wouldn't
aggravate their husbands and boyfriends, it wouldn't be an issue. If they'd
stay in neighborhoods where they belonged, and in their own homes, they
wouldn't be raped, either.

It's obvious. Women are not oppressed. They just can't hack it.

    
    ignoring everything written by any male that writes in a fwo topic
    

    Some people may chose ignorance, others chose to ignore courtesy,
    other chose to ignore interruptions..


    we all make personal choices..

    my personal current hot button is

    *BLACK FLIES*


    and all the bites on my ankles after I planted my garden this
    weekend..

    Bonnie

    People who judge a reply BEFORE they even bother reading it! 
    
    People who see MY node and name and decide that because I am a MALE
    that my opinion is noy worth reading.
    
    REK

    Bonnie,
    
    I wish I had the black flies in my backyard, they tend to ignore
    me...
    
    I have the MOSQUITOES instead,  I couldn't do my gardening on Monday
    because I was swarmed with the largest mosquitoes I have ever seen....
    time to get the bug bomb, although I should be happy that none of
    them bit my eyelids, because I am allergic and would not be able
    to see.....
                     
    Another hot button is people who must argue every point that is
    made...you say something is black, they counter no it's obviously
    white, regardless of whether the subject is black, white, gray,
    pink, or green.....

    
    why do strong proud women need protection from a few male remarks?

    Reading *anti*-feminist and anti-woman humor in the "Feminist Humor"
    note. IF you want to put in anti-feminist humor, start another note.
    
    

    OH, so its "feminist humor" when its negative towards males, and its
    ANTI women, or ANTI feminist" when its about women....
    
    yep.. sounds about right....

    RE:.29
    
    If it puts women down, stereotypes or insults them, it is not feminist
    humor.
    
    Start a note for "humor about women" if you want. This still ain't it.
    
    

    
    Why shouldn't feminist humor be negative towards males? Plenty of
    men's humor that is about women, is extremely negative towards women.
    We have a lot to make up for.
    
    Instead of throwing pit bulls into the feminist humor string, why not
    just go gnaw a humanist femur?  ;-)
    
    D.

Hot buttons is not a place for discussion, it is a place to let off steam.
I'll be glad to start a topic for this, if the participants are unable or
unwilling to find or create an appropriate one.
	Mez

    
    Slimy, scum-of-the-earth drivers who have crawled out from under
    some rock who when they pass me on my bicycle have an insecure,
    sick need to honk very loudly right when they get next to me
    in my ear!
    
    How many ways can I yell, "F*CK YOU!" at them?  I need some
    new lines... help me out.
    
    

    Oh, so that was you!
    
    REK
    
    A very big >:-}

    "Paved" roads which are patched to the point of impassibility (for a
    racing bike, at least)!

    Like Monument Street in Concord MA, just to pick a random example (the
    one which will keep me off of a bike the rest of the summer and off my
    feet for another couple of weeks).






        Off-road bikes are looking awful good for on-road use...

    

    
    Aaargh...
    	
    	People that are going to teach me something, I hate that!  
    	Oh why just once, please someone that can just point out
    	possibilities that exist rather than order me to think.
    	
    	a-

Good question. Sounds like a good subject for a new topic...

(referencing 7.37)

                                                  -Robert Brown III

      

    anonymous mail (the latest: vaginal politics, pub 1972)
    
    it's a thrill (<-- sarcasm intended)

    Why is it, that is seems that within the last six months, whenever I
    decide to read this conference again, its a certain wommanotes
    noter, and a given male (where given male has changed 3 times now)
    bickering back and forth for Hundreds of replies, when it should be in
    mail...


    Sigh...


    Sometimes I wish this conference could be a "real" live womannotes
    conference instead of a personal crusade...


    Gale

    My hot button is that the ping-pong noting referendum was defeated. 
    I've pretty much lost interest in the file because of the result.  We
    made our bed...(fill in the rest).
    
    *sigh*
    Marge

    re: 7.41 
    Thank you for describing MY hot button so succinctly!
    
    carol

    
    	RE: .41  Gale
    
    	It is patently false that any recent argument went back and forth 
    	for "Hundreds of replies" - it was ONLY JUST BARELY over the amount
    	per topic that would have been legal under the Ping Pong Policy, if 
    	it had passed.
    
    	Why would you want to say something that is so blatantly unfair
    	and untrue?
    

    wow.  Every 4 or 5 weeks I take a peek in here to see what's going on
    ... same stuff always.  I'm just glad there is no company policy that
    requires me to witness this on a daily basis.  I find it a bit
    frightening.  
    
    Jo-Ann 

    RE: 44
    
    Saturday...
    
    I had my count zero'd to 0 -- went back in an hour or so later and there
    were 42 unseen...  zero'd it out 
    
    several hours later, the unseen was at 57...  this was on a Saturday...
    
    now in my addition book, 42 + 57 = 99 - so, it wasn't hundreds, it
    was 99 between two noters MAINLY!!!...  in less than a 6 hour
    period...  
    
    And this isn't the first time this has happened between a male noter
    and a female noter.  All I requested was that the noters in question - 
    and I was VERY careful not to mention any names take it to mail...
    
    At least one of the noters had the decency to go and delete MOST of
    their notes BEFORE everyone on Monday HAD to read them... saving most 
    people what I went through...  
    
    (thank you for the womannoter who pointed this out to me, since I am
    not reading this conference except in globalness - even IF they
    requested this only be answered in mail :-)....)
    
    Gale

    	RE: .46  Gale

    	Tsk, tsk.  So this is how you obtained your faulty information.

    	If you ever do become a lawyer, I hope your witnesses turn out
    	to be more accurate than you are (and I hope your cases don't
    	depend on evidence as flimsy and/or circumstantial as this.)

    	> Saturday...
    
    	First off, the alleged "battle" (with the alleged "Hundreds of
    	replies") took place on SUNDAY, not Saturday.  The two main
    	alleged combatants were barely in the file at all on Saturday, 
    	and as far as I can tell, did NOT address each other.  (The 
    	one alleged combatant that I *did* check for activity on this
    	day - she only wrote ~4 notes.)
    	
    	> I had my count zero'd to 0 -- went back in an hour or so later and 
    	> there were 42 unseen...  zero'd it out 
    
    	> several hours later, the unseen was at 57...  this was on a 
    	> Saturday...
    
    	Assuming this actually happened on Sunday, it's still inaccurate
    	information regarding the alleged battle.

    	The specifics in the Ping Pong Proposal (if passed) would have
    	allowed 5 replies per day (per topic) between two individuals.

    	In the most active topic of the alleged battle, one alleged
    	combatant only had 2 replies to the other individual on Friday,
    	NO replies to the other individual on Saturday, and 7 replies
    	to the other individual on Sunday (which is only 2 replies above
    	the limit allowed in the Ping Pong Proposal.)

    	In the second most active topic of the alleged battle, one alleged
    	combatant only had 1 reply to the other individual on Friday, 
    	NO replies to the other individual on Saturday, and 2 replies
    	to the other individual on Sunday (which is 3 replies BELOW the
    	limit allowed in the Ping Pong Proposal.)

    	In the third most active topic of the alleged battle, one alleged
    	combatant had NO replies to the other individual on Friday, NO
    	replies to the other individual on Saturday, and 2 replies to the
    	other individual on Sunday (which is, once again, 3 replies BELOW
    	the limit allowed in the Ping Pong Proposal.)

    	Therefore, your allegation has been shown to be just as untrue and
    	unfair as I suggested earlier.

    	As for your unseen count, I suggest you *LOOK* at the notes first
    	next time before jumping to erroneous conclusions and launching
    	unfair inuendos at identifiable individuals.
    
    	Thanks very much.

                             Wow!!!!!!!!

                                                      -Robert Brown III

Since this is the hot button string, let me mearly say that I find the
phrase (7.41)  "a given male" both unnecessary and, as we have just
seen, not necessarily correct.

    Sometimes I wish this conference could be a "real" live womannotes
    conference instead of a personal crusade...

Agree completely.

Martin.

    PUNS!!!
    
    and people who don't stop!!! punning

    People who think they are engaged in rational debate when they
    are merely rationalizing their fear, hatred, and/or ignorance.
    
    Rationally derived positions are unamenable to emotionalistic
    arguments. 

Unpleasant discussions that flow over into multiple topics.
	Mez

People that complain about discussion flowing over into multiple
topics.



;-)

    
    	Doing something *really* stupid... grumble!
    

    Sitting in a meeting with my clients and feeling that tell-tale tickle
    that starts on my upper leg and slowly travels down my leg with each
    movement.  Yep, another pair of nylons has a massive run, right down
    the front, and I have another two hours on show before I can change
    them.
    
    8-{
    
    Karen

    Kevlar hose?  Has there been a great breakthrough in pantyhose research
    while I've had my nose to the grindstone?  Do tell more.
    
    Karen

    He was joshin' - Kevlar is used in tire belts, canoes, and 
    bulletproof vests.

    re: 12.168
    
    >>We're often kidded because people think "we're fooling around". married
    >>people shouldn't look at eachother with such lust !   ;^]
    
    >>I think the people that get sick are mainly the people in unhappy
    >>realationships, or none at all.
    
    >>Jerry

Also keep in mind that some people don't feel that they can *safely* hold 
hands in public or show affection to their spouse.  This is especially true 
for gay male or lesbian couples.  There are some neighborhoods where a 
mixed race couple might also be hassled for displaying affection in public. 

Sure, these couples make a choice about what or what not to do in public, 
but if one doesn't want to be the recipient of ugly and hurtful comments, 
then it is best to hide one's feelings in public.
              

    Hmmmm, at this point this probably deserves a topic of it's own,
    however.....
    
    Another category of folks who might regard public displays of affection
    with distaste, and yet be perfectly happy themselves, are those from a
    background/culture where private emotions are kept *private*.  In
    public, there is a level of dignity and decorum which is maintained so
    as to avoid giving offense to others.  Gets kinda circular, but I'm one
    of those folks, so I understand it quite well.  Doesn't matter if
    married or not, simply don't make me an innocent spectator of what
    should be your bedroom.
    
    Alison

    Yeah, I was saying goodbye to an SO several years ago in the parking
    lot - he was going on vacation and we hugged for several minutes.  Mr.
    Security Guard came out and told us to knock it off (I guess we were
    within eyeshot of the building)....
    
    Sure burned me up.......
    
    -Jody
    

    Re: last two (Bonnie & Jody)
    
                   I am shocked that either of you would "kiss" OR "hug".
    My lord....we CAN'T offend anyone...can we.   I do have it on good
    authority though that you can wink! ;^)   But be *careful* how you 
    smile!
    
    
    Dave

    Hmmmm guess Daryl and I are too quick to catch... we now work in the
    same building and we kiss each other 'good day' just before I go
    downstairs to my office.  Before I worked in the same building with
    him, we always kissed good-bye in the car just before he got out.  No
    one has ever told us to stop or been offended by it (with our knowing
    it anyway).

    Hey,
    
    I give Don hand hugs in the hall and kiss the back of his head
    (where the hair isn't :-} ) at work...but the personell woman
    told me that we could be cited for that behavior (when I brought
    it up as an example) if someone chose to complain. and, yeah, I'd
    be really burnt if they did, but I'd comply, if reluctantly.
    
    Its is really awful that the world has come to such a place that
    this sort of  behavior between two people who work in the same
    building and love each other is not always okay.
    
    but I can live with it.
    
    Bonnie

  It is not unheard of for Security to be full of sh*t when they're
  claiming to quote "policy".  Has anyone actually seen anything in
  the Policies and Procedures manual, or anywhere else "official"?
  If not, then PDAs are no big deal.

  And if there is an official policy, maybe it's time to ask the
  ACLU what they think about it.

                                   Atlant

    classism at DEC.
    
    When I was in a white collar job, suited strangers in the halls would 
    nod or smile or say hello. Now that I wear jeans to work the suited members
    of our beloved company would no sooner aknowledge me than they would 
    break dance in the halls. Incredible!!!!! Do they think dungaree material
    carries a fatal disease or something?
    
    Kate
    
     

    Well, I work 3rd, and my wife works 1st. So, when I see her in the
    morning - you better believe I give her as kiss.  I mean, it's bad
    enough that we don't get to sleep together !  But, we don't kiss like 2
    love starvered teenagers either.  8^)
    
    I never meant to imply that all strangers that seemed offended bny
    our PDA were misserable, but I *do* know that a number of people at
    this site are bitter (they are fellow employees, some friends, some
    not) because of divorce, etc.  Both my wife and I have gone through terrible
    divorces since we got a badge #.  Face it DEC, is a soap opera without
    a script ... at least this site is !  
    
    Jerry (but we're happy, and that's my MAIN concern ...)  

	Re: .74 (Classism at DEC)

>    When I was in a white collar job, suited strangers in the halls would 
>    nod or smile or say hello. Now that I wear jeans to work the suited members
>    of our beloved company would no sooner aknowledge me than they would 
>    break dance in the halls. Incredible!!!!! Do they think dungaree material
>    carries a fatal disease or something?
    
    	Well, considering that quite a few (most?) engineers I know
    often wear jeans and to my knowledge are still considered "white
    collar", I'm somewhat surprised.  I work in the Mill and there is
    quite a mixed bag here.  I'm one who usually smiles and says
    hello...and sometimes people reply, sometimes they ignore me.  I
    haven't noticed that it depends on what they're wearing though.

    	amy

    If anything, I look down on those folks who wear suits. :-)
    
    --- jerry

    I've got it!!!!!!  That thing on Star Trek, you know the energy being,
    the one represented by the really cheesy special effect that looked
    like one of those rainbow disks that you place on a table top and
    spin...
    
    The one that brought the Klingons and the USS Enterprise together, then
    armed the crews with swords and set everyone out to kill each other,
    but the wounded healed exceedingly quickly so that they could go back
    and fight again because the being fed on violent emotions.....
    
    I wonder if it has spawned.....
    
    Lisa

    re .74  The issue is that wearing dungarees makes you beneath them. 
    Who says a class structure doesn't exist in the U.S.?
    

    I think it's a matter of some few people (in suits) trying to
    *impose* a class structure (by putting down those not in
    suits.) I wear jeans every day at work, it's the uniform of
    my job. Others wear suits every day, it's the uniform of
    *their* job. I try not to make assumptions about other people
    based on the uniform they wear. If they assume things about me 
    based on the uniform, it's their problem, not mine.
    

re: 7.66

  >>Also keep in mind that some people don't feel that they can *safely* hold 
  >>hands in public or show affection to their spouse.  This is especially true 
  >>for gay male or lesbian couples.  There are some neighborhoods where a 
  >>mixed race couple might also be hassled for displaying affection in public. 

  >>Sure, these couples make a choice about what or what not to do in public, 
  >>but if one doesn't want to be the recipient of ugly and hurtful comments, 
  >>then it is best to hide one's feelings in public.
  
*All* couples make a choice about what or what not to do in public.
Should the choice for mixed race or gay and lesbian couples be affected by
anything more than it is for "normal" (what is normal, anyway?) couples?
I think not.

Why should I alter my behavior to account for ugly and hurtful comments that
other people *might* make?  Those comments are their problem, not mine.  As
for hiding feelings, I don't think that's a good idea either.  If two people
feel comfortable with themselves, why should they not feel comfortable
acknowledging it in front of others?  Hiding your feelings in any situation
because you think others might not like them can hurt terribly in the long
run.

I have had relationships with men of other races and thankfully I have
never been physically harassed by anyone in public.  But I have been stared
at and talked about....  Possible physical harm is the only thing that
might affect my decision about how to express my affection for anyone
in public.

Sharing our feelings and thoughts with someone special can bring such
joy to life, that one should take advantage of every chance they get.

    I will be so glad if the day ever comes when two people who care about
    one another can express 'appropriate' physical expression of that love
    in public (hugging and kissing) without harrassment.  Don't we have 
    enough problems with wars and violence without fighting over LOVING
    one another?  For Gods sake, (or ours for that matter) people lets at
    least not fight over love!  Jeff

    KUDOS TO ANN BROOMHEAD FOR 78.159...
    
    Nothing aggravates me more than someone (usually a man) uses this forum
    to try and bring this small community to their knees.
    
    I shall be watching to see if anyone that writes in this conference
    presents the same argument/s to Newsweek.
    
    Thanks again Ann...

Pre-conceptions that make humor in a difficult situation less effective.
	Mez

    MASS CAR INSURANCE!!!!
    
    AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
    
    I get my bill for next year (of course the first payment is due a full
    month before the old policy expires) for over $1200!!!!!  My car is
    only worth about $8000 total!!!!! And I live in a rural community,
    commute less than ten miles to work, I've had my license for six years,
    only two tickets in those six years (both in the wonderful town of
    Sudbury, I no longer patronize any business in Sudbury, in fact I make
    sure to drive around it whenever possible)......grrrrrrr......
    
    Lisa

    re .85, be careful in *Acton*, too!  I got my first speeding ticket in
    15 yrs. in Acton last fall, $100. fine for going 45 in a 30 mile zone
    or something like that.
    
    Lorna
    

RE .86

I guess you can't say *nobody* pays attention to you...

    
    I bet you were on route 27, not too far past the Maynard line.
    That's where they got me.
    
    CQ

    Yup, Rt. 27 almost to Sudbury Rd. (The first ticket was on Hudson Rd,
    just past the Rt. 27 intersection.
    
    I had just had a pretty major trauma in my life, I was drone driving
    behind some guy, and didn't see the cop come up behind me.  The guy
    pulled us both over, said he clocked us (no radar) at 50 mph in the
    30 zone, but that he was going to be supernice and lower it to 
    40-45 in the 30 zone, only $50.
    
    Wasn't he nice......
    
    Lisa

    And I bet his name was Officer J. Dudley!
    
    - Vikas

    GAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    If I hear one more whine about the way people look, I am gonna take to
    high ground and shoot somebody!!!!!!!*&^%$^*((&^%%
    
    Listen up! I am attractive.  I was a cheerleader.  I had lots of
    friends and had a grand old time in school.  And you know what?  I dont
    trust ugly people.  Just like you folks don't trust attractive people. 
    Not till I get to know them, at least
    
    
    
    ARGHSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH$*%&#(@)*$%^&
    
    That feels better.  

    I moved several responses to The Rathole.  I agree, however, that
    they'd make a *great* topic and will move them again if the discussants
    are interested.  

    	Why do some people use things like political campaigns (or even
    	SPORTING EVENTS!) as a way to try to make others feel like shit?

    	Oh, is some candidate behind in the polls?  It must be time for
    	some loud, rude insults about the person YELLED into the faces of
    	the person's supporters.  If the candidate loses or drops out, it
    	must be time to GLOAT into people's faces.  What fun.

    	Oh, is some favorite team doing badly this year?  It must be time
    	for even louder, ruder insults about the team, the city it calls
    	home, and everyone who ever even thought about rooting for them.

    	God - how do some people make it through the day without spreading
    	this sort of bullshit around to other people?  What's the use of
    	being alive if you can't go around bringing people down by stomping
    	all over some public person (or sporting team) who happens to bring
    	them a moment of pleasure.

    re .93 I couldn't agree more. Some people get very emotionally wrapped
    up in politics and tightly attach themselves to their candidate of
    choice. If that candidate should lose, step down, or for some other
    reason, valid or invalid, the supporter feels a very heavy emotional
    let down. This is not the time to start slinging personal insults
    around about the candidate or the supporter. Rather then fight back
    strongly, as the supporter is apt to do while the candidate is still
    running, the extremely depressed supporter might sink further into
    depression or failing that, might never become involved in politics or
    even vote again. This would be a horrendous loss for America as every
    vote counts and even more would be an even bigger loss for society as a
    whole because we lose a vibrant, strong, fighter for what's right.
    
    Please don't insult these people. It hurts us all and only makes the
    insulter look bad in the process. Argue the issues and goals and
    beliefs of the candidate and why you agree or disagree , but leave
    namecalling out of it.
    
    Phil

    	
    	Phil, I'm not trying to suggest that anyone gets seriously depressed
    	or upset when someone starts screaming in their faces that their
    	favorite candidate or team lost.
    
    	This sort of gloating and stomping is boorish, that's all.  Rude, 
    	unnecessary, and un-called-for.
    

    re: SUZANNE,
    
    Here,here. I couldn't have said it better. What's even worse is when
    the person keeps gloating and gloating. How immature.
    
    Kate

    People who have to put themselves 'one up' by putting others
    'one down'. A sure sign of poor self-esteem.

    re .95 I realize that. I was just agreeing with your points and adding
    my own concerns. Perhaps taken to the extreme, but if I point out the
    worse possible scenario, maybe someone who does such things will
    consider the persons fellings next time. Doubtful, but ya gotta try.
    
    Phil

                    -< some days, being remote is the pits >-

    ARRRGH!
    
    STUPID TERMINAL EMULATORS THAT GO INTO VT100 GRAPHICS MODE INSTEAD OF
    WRAPPING WHEN LINES EXCEED 80 CHARACTERS!
    
    And noters who don't take care to make their decwindows notes write
    notes with lines SHORTER than 80 characters.
    
    *erp* excuse me.  I needed to get that out.
    
    DougO

    note 338, "Facinating Women"
    
    I'm gonna try to keep my voice down, here, but I gotta tell you I am
    really p.o.'d.  I could wish for a boycott of this note, so I wouldn't
    have to see it anymore, it just makes me mad all over again.
    
    the boy (technical term, used deliberately) is the kind of noter for
    which the "next unseen" command was invented.  I've sworn an oath to
    myself not to reply to his note ever again, since he's such a little
    ... er ... I mean ... twerpy adolescent ( his chronological age
    means little).  Sorry, I can't bring myself to value his difference;
    it means I'd have to acquiesce to casual grabs on the subway, to enjoy
    the wolf whistles of construction workers as I walk by on my own
    business, to smile at the men who have come on at work, because those jerky
    ^$)#^%_@@% cagouns have no better control over their gonads than to be
    in a constant state of rut.  (And they say _women_ are controlled by
    their hormones!!! sheesh!!!)  Poor little things!  How can they rule
    the world if we women are so horrible as to deny them gratification,
    thus putting them in a state of unbearable frustration!  That's it --
    we women are just the cause of all evil, if we won't be sex objects at
    their beck and call!  Now _there's_ the power of women for ya!
                                                     
    Men, thank god you're not all like that.  Could one of you educate this
    little monster?  Before he gets DEC sued (may not apply in Europe) for
    conduct-in-the-office-unbecoming-a-professional?
    
    Pascal, go play in traffic.  I edited that considerably.
    
    			Sara

    re: .103
    
    Thanks for explaining . . . it really doesn't sound like something
    I'd expect a nonprofit organization that I contributed to to be
    using my money for!
    
    --bonnie

    Two of my buttons got pushed big-time last night while I was watching
    mumblemumble.  Okay!  TV!
    
    1)  I was flipping channels and came across A Current Affair.  There
    was a story on about Sam Kinesen (sp?) and Sinead O'Connor.  It seems
    Kinesen has a new video out ridiculing O'Connor.  Well, what else is
    new?  He's a (IMHO) twinkie, and I tend only to pay enough attention
    to him as is needed to let people know I don't feel his views are,
    shall we say, viable.  However, the woman who was doing the report
    is the one who really bothered me.  Her descriptive terms for O'Connor
    included:  bizarre feminist, banshee, and oddity.  I believe the last
    was actually "cueball oddity".  She then went on the say, in rather
    dismissive or disparaging tones, that O'Connor had made a stir by 
    refusing to appear on SNL because of Andrew Dice Clay (major YAY!),
    and had then made herself even more despised by refusing to allow
    the U.S. national anthem to be played at one of her concerts.  Well,
    why should she have?  She is *not* a citizen of this country, and I 
    have never heard her say she *wants* to be a citizen of this country.
    Besides, if she is anything at all like me, maybe she has an
    idealogical disagreement with the concept of national anthems and 
    pledges of allegiance, etc.  
    
    Anyway, this one really irritated me.  The whole thrust of the
    report was that Kinesen was correct, and that everyone should take
    pot shots at this woman.  Why?  Because she has the audacity to speak
    her mind!
    
    2)  As many of you know, I am a Quaker.  I abhor violence.  I
    especially abhor the concept that violence can be humorous.  Well,
    Chevrolet has a new ad on TV.  There is a faceless hand holding a
    large red marker.  In the background is the music from the shower
    scene in "Psycho".  The marker is being held the same way Norman
    Bates held the knife, and it comes slashing down just as Norman
    Bates' knife came slashing down to viciously mutilate, torture and 
    murder Janet Leigh.  Of course in the ad what is being slashed are
    prices.  This is *humor*.  (?)  Anyway, the ad goes on to show a 
    car salesman backing up and being stopped by a car.  He has a look of
    abject terror on his face, it is obvious that he was trying to back
    away from this slasher, and the next shot is a close-up of the
    salesman's face, then the slasher coming down.  
    
    This really turned my stomach!!!!!  It was bad enough when Quaker
    Oats came out with "Popeye, the Quaker Man", but this is beyond belief.
    I think for the first time I am actually going to lodge a protest with
    a company about their irresponsible, sick advertising!
    
    Thanks.  Unfortunately, I don't feel much better yet.
    
    E Grace

    oh joy! oh rapture! Two musical quotes come to mind:
    
    "I think I go back to San Juan."
    "I know a boat you can get on, bye-bye!"
    			'America', _West_Side_Story_
    
    "You're lookin' real good at the women now
    "Your mind hasn't gotten the message some how
    "Someday be a grown man, ready to love
    "Come back baby when you grow up."
    			I forget who, and I've changed the words on purpose
    

    
    War, discussions of war, discussions of men going to war, 
    discussions of men participating in war, witnessing word-
    war between =wn='ers ...
    
    Desperately seeking peace,
    
    Carla
    

    Discussions of motherhood and daughterhood that only want to talk
    about the anger and the hurt and not about the joys and the
    triumphs . . .
    
    --bonnie

    
    Repeated gratuitous blasts at "basket weaving" as the *ULTIMATE*
    in "gut" courses.  It's a decades old stereotype, and it is not
    deserved.
    
    								-mr. bill

    RE .111 No offense intended. Feel free to substitute 'Nintendo
    play' or whatever you feel is outside the scope of college
    education.

    	I am new to this file, but since the topic here is "Hot
    	Buttons".....I cannot stomach the people who go around
    	protesting....(ex. abortion).....who gave them the right
    	to decide what is right or wrong for everyone else???
    
    
    	I think, regarding maturity, that each person can be their OWN
    	person, and make up their OWN mind!
    

    ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
    
    
    %^&&*(*%#$#$#$!
    
    Sending a memo to a colleague to initiate a meeting, only to have
    the wording ridiculed (Tell me what's so funny about words like 
    "realistic" and "ideally"??!!), and being called "honey", like
    in "honey---you're not the only person working here"  Oh yeah, 
    and then my MOTHER wonders why I became angry and told him not
    to call me honey. 
    
    

    
    	re: -1
    
    	I have a coffee mug for situations like that.... it says
    	"Men who call women 'sweetheart', 'baby', or 'honey' 
    	 should have their tiny little p***ers cut off."
    
    	Bugs me to no end.  "Honey, listen could you make these
    	copies for me?"  I am *not* your honey!!
    
    	JJ
    

    People who Whine and whine and whine and never do anything positive to
    change their situations or reactions to others and their situations.

    people who nit-pick apart others words and turn it alllll around....
    swaying from issues that need dealing with....
    denying there's any problem existing....
    AAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The new Twix commercial.....
    
    Shows a teenage girl dancing at a party....voiceover in the
    background..."Studying is the most important thing for you right now"..
    
    The a teenage guy in a pool...voiceover.....you should plan your
    future...
    
    Then cut to Twix bars....showing how much fun you have, and how
    unboring Twix candy bars are.....
    
    AAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH......kids can't even write a coherent
    sentence and then you get this stupid commercial showing how uncool it
    is to do your homework.....
    
    I mean, life can't be all work....but you do have to do some....this
    really annoyed me...
    
    Lisa

"...mere date rape..."

everytime I hear this, I want to tie someone to a chair and give them an ER
report to read ... the pictures, the words only tell part of it.  The part 
that's _not_ in the report is the sniggering, the ridicule, the brutal coldness,
... the crushing fear that you'll never be able to trust _any_one again about
anything, the debilitating doubts about your own ability to make choices and
survive them ... coming to grips with people who feel you _deserve_ the bruises
and the concussion and the lacerations, because a friend raped you.

  Annie

    I really hate feuds.  I especially hate feuds where the Hatfields and
    the MacCoys don't care who else they hurt.  I feel like I am getting
    punished by people who just can't stop beating eachother about the head
    and shoulders with a baseball bat (the modern equivalent of the thigh 
    bone of an antelope).  And they won't even take their ball and go home,
    they insist that they must *win* the game and that the losers must be
    punished.
    
    When I have had a problem with the attitudes that seem prevalent in
    some notefile I am reading, and it gets to the point that it upsets me
    consistently to read that file, I delete the entry.
    
    I'll say it again for emphasis: I DELETE THE ENTRY.
    
    This has happened several times, I'll even name the notes:  PARENTING,
    CANINES, MENNOTES, in that order, over several years.
    
    What an idea!
    
    We are not talking about anyone's inalienable rights here; that would
    apply only if your RIGHTS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION or your JOB AT DIGITAL
    was threatened by someone's postings here.  This does not happen in =wn=
    as far as I can see.  No corporate policy is made or broken here, no
    one is asked to do the rote dog-work for someone else for sexist
    reasons, no one's pay or performance rating is determined here.
    
    People express their opinions.  Sometimes they are offensive to some
    people.  That's life.  Grow up.  Stop whining, and get back to work, or
    delete the entry.
                                       

    same hot button, 3 weeks later              
    
    39.62, which quotes a man, about says it all
    

    Ignorant comments made about a persons quote...solely based upon their
    gender......
    

    I wish ALL noters would just *ignore* those notes which they find
    offensive, rather than sparring with each other constantly (unless, of
    course, one enjoys sparring).  
    
    -Colleen

And I cannot stand the biases that are shown every day in this Notesfile.

   In particular, I hate those who, on the one hand, practically condone the
behavior of those who write angry, sometimes insulting entries directed at
certain people in this Notesfile, while at the same time telling those same
people to "ignore" notes that are insulting to them.

   After all, if one group of people must somehow be made to "ignore"
notes that insult them, then so should all other groups.

   What happens in this Notesfile reminds me of things that happened to me
in college. When white racists marched on my campus and said insulting things 
to and about me as a Black person, I was told to "ignore" them (even when they
sent nasty messages to me threatening  my life through campus mail!). But when 
I joined protests against racism at my college, I was some kind of "bad guy"
who "deserved" whatever action the administration (or the police) took against
me.

   This Notesfile is, in too many ways, an electronic version of that college
I went to.

   I am beginning to lose patience with a so- called "Valuing Differences"
Notesfile where the "Valuing Differences" policy is being violated almost
on a daily basis. I have some left, but it is fading fast.

                                                        -Robert Brown III

   And one thing that really pushes my hot button is listening to someone
compare my reactions as a man to those of a white person as a white person --
and saying that both are somehow "bad".

   I have no objections to working with and showing respect to those
Whites who are against racism. But to point at Whites who may object to
certain (racist) practices I may engage in and call them racists simply 
because they don't agree with me is to perpetuate the kind of race hatred
that created the bad conditions I grew up in the first place. It also 
perpetuates the same conditions, because those Whites who are really racist
can justify racism to those who aren't. This in turn creates more obstacles
to much- needed change. It also generates hatred and resentment directed
towards Blacks, which in turn (as we've seen recently) leads to a loss of
certain gains we've made as Blacks.

   The principle described above also applies to WOMANNOTES. Calling men
who disagree with the environment here sexist, insensitive, or even
not- understanding is sexist, perpetuates discrimination, and generates
resentment which leads to hostility and other unpleasent things.

   In other words, my behavior as a Black person and my behavior as a man
are consistant. Anyone who suggests otherwise is insulting me in the worst
way imaginable.

   I sincerely hope that no one will insult me by bringing up my experience
as a Black person in this context again. Such individuals who do so not
only display ignorance of what I am trying to say here, but they also "push
my hot button" and make REALLY hostile.

                                                 -Robert Brown III

Right ON sister!

	-- Charles

    The topic title says delete when cooled. Thus my notes are gone. And
    even this one can be ratholed. More than anything else, I hate getting
    sucked into a discussion with EDP and Robert Brown. Its not an issue of
    sexism for me; its you two specific people whom I don't enjoy dealing
    with and henceforth will not deal with.

    
    
    edp ::  Until you've been a womon, you could *never* understand
            how unreal your comments are regarding FWO.  It is space
            for wymyn to talk to wymyn, that's all.  Why do you feel
            that men *have* to be included in conversations here.
    
            Until you've been a womon, you could never understand the
            need for wymyn to talk to wymyn.
    
    	    This is a conference dedicated to topics of interest to
            wymyn....*why* do you always misconstrue the contents of
            a string where wymyn are speaking to each other....?         
    
            Recently, I've tried to understand you and your viewpoints
            on all matters where you have replied, and, I can't seem
            to come to any conclusions....just mass confusions. I've
            tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because you've
            never been a womon, but, you seem to refuse to even learn
            from anything that is said here in this conference.
    
    	    You have nit-picked in almost every posting you've generated.
            It is getting very tedious and *if* this conference goes 
            down, we can ALL thank you....
    

    
    
    >   Until you've been a womon, you could never understand the
    >   need for wymyn to talk to wymyn.
    
    
    I REALLY hate when people are told that they can't understand a
    situation simply because they are not X.  (Like when I'm told I can't
    understand how to raise children because I've never had any).
    
    
    I REALLY hate when a whole category of people are lumped into one giant
    pile and told, "by virtue of being X, you must understand Y."
    
    And I REALLY hate the word "wymyn" and any other variation thereof.
    
    
    No offense to the author of .144, your comment just was just
    appropriate and easy to highlight.  I see situations like this
    everyday, in MANY conferences on the net....and it just REALLY REALLY
    bothers me.
    
    
    kathy

    
    ref. 145
    
    Sorry, IMHO, your comments are just as irritating to some.  
    
    I was wrong in generalizing that it's only the men who may not 
    understand, I know now, there are WYMYN also....

    ... and some myn as well ...

  Pet peeve:  the assertion that one should not make assumptions because when
  one ASSUMES one makes an ASS out of U and ME.

  I thought this Management 101 homily was stupid when I first heard it some
  eleven years ago and I haven't changed my mind.  If you believe I've made
  an unwarranted assumption -- or a type of assumption that tends to be 
  unwarranted, please tell me so.  Don't tell me not to make assumptions
  because that can't be helped.  (E.g., did you just turn the key in the
  ignition this morning, assuming that your car was not wired to explode?)

  JP

    
    
    .146/.147
    
    
    I make an attempt to understand you.  Do you make an attempt to 
    understand me?
    
    
    
    I WANT peace and I WANT everyone to live in harmony.  I don't WANT to 
    be hated.  But I also DESERVE to be heard.
    
    
    kathy

    
    
    
    If I hear ONE MORE time that Womennotes is *FOR* women, instead of 
    *ABOUT* women's issues...
    
    
    	I AM GOING TO THROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    READ THE FRIKKIN' POLICY NOTE, people! This conference is for ALL
    Digital employees, and if you want to be so selfish and sexist that 
    you want it all to yourself, then GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.....because
    YOU are the ones violating Digital's policies!
    
    Digital does *NOT* support you in your statement that this conference
    is *FOR* women and that men are just "allowed to participate" here.
    READ PP&P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Yes, I'm EXTREMELY pissed.
    
    kathy

    
    
    So be it....!  I'm gone somewhere else.
    
    I guess wmn notes are *not* the wmn's issues I choose to talk about.
    It never goes anywhere but up my butt....
    

    	My hot button is the concept that Digital's notesfiles are never
    	created "for" a certain group.  This simply is not true.

    	A notesfile about basketball is created "for" people who want to
    	talk about basketball.  If someone came along to insist that equal
    	time be given to football or soccer, they'd be asked to find the
    	appropriate forum.  

    	If someone disrupted every discussion on basketball with information
    	or concerns about football or soccer, the notes would most likely
    	be moved or deleted.  The person would be told that the file was
    	created for people interested in basketball (and that if the person
    	had some other overriding interest, they should go elsewhere, since
    	the majority of the conference participates to discuss this one
    	subject.)

    	If someone tried to shut down a basketball conference because they
    	felt they weren't being "served" for their interests in football
    	or baseball, they'd be laughed off the net.

    	There are thousands of Notesfiles in Digital.  This one was created
    	(by the person who founded the file, for God's sake) "FOR" women -
    	so that we can discuss topics of interest to us.  Although no one
    	is excluded from participating, it would be a lie to say that the
    	founder of this notesfile didn't have women in mind when she started
    	Womannotes.

    	It's not a crime to start a notesfile with a specific group's 
    	interests in mind.  If there were only ONE notesfile in Digital,
    	then it wouldn't be possible to do this.

    	What's nice is that there are THOUSANDS of conferences in Digital
    	- which is certainly room enough on the network to have a file
    	dedicated to women.

    
    
    RE: .154
    
    I feel your analogy is incorrect, Suzanne.
    
    
    A basketball notesfile would be created to discuss issues surrounding
    the sport of basketball.
    
    However, it does not only open it's arms to people who play basketball
    on a continuing basis.  It's allows entries from anyone, from people
    who watch basketball to people who's relatives play basketball to 
    people who don't like basketball and want to discuss issues about
    WHY they don't like basketball.
    
    Women's issues do not have to be discussed solely by women.  Men are
    fully capable of discussing women's issues too.  
    
    Again, this conference is not FOR women, it's ABOUT women.  Just
    like a basketball conference is not FOR basketball players, but rather
    ABOUT basketball.  
    
    Subject matter is not the issue here, restriction of participation is.
    
    kathy
    
    
    
    
    

    Please take it to the processing topic
    
    This one is for HOT BUTTONS.
    
    -Jody
    

    People who insist on *perfect* solutions in an imperfect world

    ...if you lost/gained some weight
    ...if you were more/less educated
    ...if you talked louder/softer
    
    wanting to interact with a person does not grant one the right to
    alter, suggest or require "improvements" of that person.  and who the
    heck sez they're "improvements" in the first place?
    
    this button got hit in the processing note...

    	This isn't a "hot button" - just luke warm (but I wasn't sure
    	where else to put this.)

    	I realize how tempting it is to use the feature that allows notes
    	to be edited and reposted back at earlier note numbers (where they
    	were originally, even though notes have been written since then.)

    	However, unless the placement of the note is absolutely CRITICAL
    	to the flow of the topic, I would like to ask that people use
    	this feature very sparingly.

    	It's disorienting as hell to find yourself back to a prior point
    	in a discussion (and then to have to take corrective measures to
    	move along without re-reading some notes or missing others.)

    	If it isn't positively a matter of life or death that a certain
    	note retain a certain position - let it take a new number, ok?

    	Please?

    
    RE .159
    
    Couldn't agree more, Lee.
    'gail

    re .160 Amen

    re: .160
    
    My "frustration button" is that I don't even know *how* to do this!

    
    
    >    My "frustration button" is that I don't even know *how* to do this!
    
    
    
    MODIFY NOTE/NOTE_ID=<new-note-number> <old-note-number>
    
    
    
    Enter a note anywhere, and then just move it with the above command.
    Of course it can be annoying if people move notes into the middle of a
    string of other notes.  It's most useful for moving notes to a
    different topic.
    
    kath

    
    i am a _new_product_engineer_ here at GSO. as such, i typically have to
    work with different program managers on specific product lines.
    
    it pisses me of that "professional" mail i receive from one of these
    program managers, starts out with
    
        DEARHEART,
    
          [.....]
    
    
     whatever happened to tried and true proffesional courtesy???!!!!!!!!!
    
    ~robin_who_is_too_aggrevated_to_decide_how_respond, yet.
    

	Howsabout,

	SWEETCAKES,

	[...]

	:-) :-)

	I bet Dena would be very interested in seeing that piece of mail.

Tracey

    Re .165: <choke, splutter> Hard to believe... Well, the Miss Manners
    method would be to reply: "I seem to have accidentally received mail
    directed to a Mr. or Ms. Dearheart, but I can't seem to locate such a
    person in ELF, so I'm returning it to you to forward." You might add
    that, of course, you didn't read the contents, since it clearly wasn't
    intended for you - but then, that's only what one would expect from a
    civilized person, right? ;-)
    
    [Miss Manners' Evil Twin would recommend searching ELF for somebody
    named Dearhart or equivalent, and forwarding the mail to them, with a
    CC to the originator explaining what you did, but I, personally, would
    *never* suggest such an abuse of the corporate mail system.]
    
    -b

    
    re .166
    
    ya' know... maybe that's who i should forward it to, instead of
    responding!
    
    re.167 (-:
    

    Hmmmm ... why don't I ever get any mail like that !   8^)
    
    Seriously though .. that is sorta crude.  But, GSO is on another
    wavelength than the rest of the Digital community anyway ...
    
    Jerry (who's wife was told that Christmas music could not be played in
    her production area until the idea was cleared through Plant Staff ...)

578.71 suggests that this is a private business and can consequently
do more-or-less what it pleases (this is not an exact quote and I
apologize for any misreading).

I would suggest that anyone who believes this go to the entrance
of your building and read the extract from the Civil Rights Act
of 1964 that is posted there.

People died to pass that law; it's a shame that it's been forgotten
so quickly.

Martin.

    581.44
    
    I find it very sad that we can say things like we 'hate' a large group
    of humanity, especially when all of us were a part of the very group at
    some point in time.  
    
    Choosing not to have children is one thing.  
    
    But disrespect of children is one of the reasons there is so much child
    abuse.  
    
    I will respect your right not to have children if those of you that
    decide not to have them put your decision in a context that reflects
    your personal decision for whatever personal reasons you have.  If
    hatred is your reason it would appear to me that you might want to
    think about that....there is nothing wrong with not wanting children
    there is a lot wrong with hating them.

	I don't recall if I have actually said that I hate children, however, 
	as I seem to be in the mood for checking my dictionary this week,

	Hate :  hatred;	      dislike strongly;     bear malice to.

	Now I hate children in the sense that I strongly dislike them, I don't
	hate them in the sense that I would bear malice to them.

	
	I believe that my decision not to have children is right for me.
	I also believe that one reason for children being abused, is that there
 	are men and women around that feel the same way as I do, but get 
	pressured into having children, or who have children "by accident", and
 	get pressured into keeping them...........etc etc...


	There is a great pressure on couples to have children, there is great
	pressure on women, in some countries, and in some faiths, not to use
	contraception or not to have abortions. 
	This pressure can sometimes have its desired effect, and people who
	feel like myself, end up with children that, not only didn't they want,
	but they also dislike. 

	It's time for society to accept that people should be allowed to have
	the choice, with no pressure WHATSOEVER.  We are not there today.

	Heather

    
    People who think they can predict the world's future.
    

    Re:174.. I KNEW you were going to say that!!!
    
    REK
    
    :-}

    I guess this is more of a "lukewarm button", in 613.4 I read
    
    > I went to mostly crummy schools in the South
    
    There are crummy schools everywhere.  So why mention the South?  Sounds
    to me like a statement perpetuating the predjudicial stereotype of
    southerners and southern schools that I have encountered so often since
    moving north.  And from a southerner!
    
    Mary (VPI class of '74 and proud of it)
    

	Hasn't everyone heard of the north-south divide...........

    	The South is nice and warm and has good everything.

	The North has bad weather, they eat hovis, and frothy beer.


	Heather

    
    'sfunny Heather, I was going to say more or less the reverse: the South
    lacks seasons (heavens it's snowing up north now but it's just muggy,
    damp and unpleasant down here in the south).
    
    hovis is a brand of flour ... but I know what you mean :-)
    
    beer is meant to have a froth on it - down in't South they train
    bartenders to serve the beer flat!
    
    /. Ian .\
    (who so hates the South he's thinking of emigrating to escape the ****
    place)
    
    PS: for furrinners we're both talking about England :-)

	Sorry, but it's a sterotype for a reason.

	Just about anyway you measure them, SAT's, percentage of drop out,
percentage of graduates going to college, amount of money spent per student,
Southern (public) schools come out toward the bottom of the lists.  (Amount 
of money spent on footbal is another matter... >;-)  )

	South Carolina and Alabama have been trading 50 back and forth between
them for years.

	Tracey
	who was educated *in spite* of the South Carolina School system
	

	

    Aw c'mon y'all from over the pond, pokin' fun at the North vs. South.
    Jes' remember you was on mah side durin' the woah.
    
    Mary

    When all dose English type sucka's start usin' slang language, it's far
    enough fum plantation fo' us poo' non-native English sucka's as it is. 
    Right On!  

    You's gots' no idea whut radical technical means we gots'ta use t'be
    able t'communicate wid ya' lot...

    Ad

	Now, I don' be Knowin' wot you bin going on aboot moi luvvers

	All I knows is tha, since man and buy,  we 'ave always bin afightin'
	for them round'ead fellahs.

	Heather - fuget that ale stuff, try thiz zider - 'tis praper jab!

re: .182:
    You's gots' no idea whut radical technical means we gots'ta use t'be
    able t'communicate wid ya' lot...

Yeah, like throwing away half the keys on your typewriter.

Martin.
ps: is it true that the Dutch national motto is "we can understand
them but they can't understand us?"

    
    Loved your accent Heather ;-)
    
    Aidan (who was brought up in Bristol...loves Devonshire and could 
    'hear' the accent while reading the note)
    

    It's hard to write with saliva dripping into the keyboard:-), but
    ::BINDER's note reminds me to share some good news for your MetroWest
    Boston USA types.  Duck Soup in the Mill Village shop ctr on Rt 20 in
    Sudbury has scrumptious UK-origin Devonshire Clotted Cream and real
    authentic-tasting scones of either the missionary or raisin-infested
    preference.  Yums to the MAX!!!  Enjoy, all you BritFoodOphiles.  :-)
    
    I think I'll take a ride...
    
    D

    
    
    I thought this was supposed to be the hot buttons note?
    
    Shouldn't this conversation be in the Rathole note (I usually next
    unseen that one....I don't feel comfortable doing it in this one).
    
    kath

Southerners accusing Northerners of all being: EE BY GUM, ECKY THUMP,
unemployed, living next to a disused coal tip, uncultured, i.e. stereotypes

 

    RE .189 -
    
    You mean they don't ???????
    
    -Shantanu

    -d,
    
    if you're in the Worcester area, try the new tea room at the Art
    Museum;  big selection of special teas, lunches with bisquits,
    and scones with cream and jam.
    

    -d, there is a shop on Main St. in Nashua that specializes in goodies
    from England. You may be able to find Thornton's there. Not sure of the
    name and it's in a really small building. It's near and on the same
    side of the street as the Ford dealership. Left as you head North.
    
    My daughter uses it. She's hooked on British tasty treats ever since
    she went to London last April.
    
    Phil

    Why couldnt I think of a reply at the time....
    
    At a dinner last night the man next to me said "Do you work?" and
    I replied "How else would I eat?" and he said "You could be just a
    housewife"
    
    I supposed I should have just said "Yes I work, do you?" but you never
    think of it at the time do you....  I am still wondering what sort of
    image I was presenting to get that question!
    
    diana

    Yeah.  "Just" a housewife.  Oh good.
    
    D!

    
    in the Early English/Saxon term 'huswyf' the meaning was 'mistress of
    the house'. A huswyf didn't work ... she told the servants to work.
    
    I suppose there may be some members of the "idle rich" who still
    qualify ;-}
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    dearest moderators, if i write anything else in this file about
    the war, will you please delete it?
    

    RE: .199
    
    Oh, Dorian, you couldn't have phrased it better!
    
    :-)))))
    

    RE: .199, .200
    
    My reply referenced an earlier iteration of Dorian's note, in which 
    there was, IMO, a serendipitous and rather amusing accidental pun.
    
    But, since I think puns are funny, what can you expect from *me*?!
    
    What the heck, at least I finally got a "n00" note for the first time
    in my noting "career".
    
    --DE
    

    re .193
    
    Where DO these guys come from.  I once had a blind date say to me
    "So Polly, so you work or what?"  Told him I was a kept woman.  Of
    course the same jerk also told me that his ex-wife didn't really work,
    she was just a secretary.
    
    P 
    

    RE -1
    
    I had a guy ask me, "So, you've been divorced twice...are you a
    real bitch or what?"
    
    Kim
    

Talk about a real sexist rude pig.  I was at a party, one of the guys there
was unbelievable.  He rubbed me the wrong way when both he and his girlfriend
were sitting down and he commanded her "Get me a beer", it wasn't just the
words, but his tone too.  She told him she would when she was through with her
drink.  He continued sitting there and snapping his fingers telling her to 
"GO!" ever couple of minutes.  I was trying to be polite at this point and 
didn't way a word, just kept shooting him dirty looks.  (I couldn't believe
this girl went out with him, never mind not telling him off!)

Anyway, Wrestlemania was on the tv and I asked who someone was (Randy Savage's
new manager, I found out later).  Anyway, this guy from the party said "Oh, 
that's his 'hole'".  I couldn't bite my tongue on that one said that he was
an *sshole!  

Unfortunately, I heard later, he didn't hear me say that, but his girlfriend
did.  What a loser!

    "man is..."                         
    "in the history of mankind,..."     
    
    - in WOMANNOTES!!!!!    oooh, am *i* mankind, too??  gee...
    
    [insert rantings]